what is the "density" exactly means?

[zenmaster]

somewhere on the forum, someone posted a link called "raised by aliens" or something like that.

Start of thread is here. The post to which you refer is here. I've read the whole thing. "Fore"'s "caretaker" or "advisor" appeared to him like a Pleiadian woman - but most of the time is not in physical form.

Apparently, what we call the "astral" form (subtle, transparent body when viewed from 3D), however, is not harmful or incompatible.

[Aaron]

Thank you, zenmaster!

[unity100]

but, starting from 4th, things change. paranormal starts.

What do you mean by paranormal?
By my definition, 'paranormal' starts at 2D with the introduction of prana (or 'life force'). Science can't measure prana (or doesn't acknowledge it), so it's 'paranormal'. Maybe prana is the analog of electricity or magnetism of 1D.

Then, 3D-complexity caries with it other properties that, while possibly familiar, may be considered even more paranormal, like sentience, intentionality and thought forms.

paranormal in my definition is the point where the time/space phenomenon starts directly manifesting. life force is not paranormal, since it exists at any given point, even in 1d.

paranormal is stuff like things disappearing, or thoughts directly becoming things, telekinesis, telepathy and so on. dimensionality also starts, with different frequency entities being able to live in completely overlapping but not colliding physicalities.

[zenmaster]

How is "density" used in relation to earth spirits, faeries, demons and other "inner plane" entities?

[zenmaster]

paranormal in my definition is the point where the time/space phenomenon starts directly manifesting. life force is not paranormal, since it exists at any given point, even in 1d.

paranormal is stuff like things disappearing, or thoughts directly becoming things, telekinesis, telepathy and so on. dimensionality also starts, with different frequency entities being able to live in completely overlapping but not colliding physicalities.

Paranormal:

not scientifically explainable

a general term (coined ca. 1915–1920) that designates experiences that lie outside "the range of normal experience or scientific explanation" or that indicates phenomena that are understood to be outside of science's current ability to explain or measure

of or pertaining to the claimed occurrence of an event or perception without scientific explanation, as psychokinesis, extrasensory perception, or other purportedly supernatural phenomena.

Also telepathy does not begin at 4D. Telepathy is a mind-layer communication and begins at 2D. Telepathic communication may occur between 2D animals, between 2D animals and 3D humans, or among 3D humans, 3D humans and 3D inner-plane entities, for example.

[unity100]

............

i had had noted that 'paranormal as i take it'.

Also telepathy does not begin at 4D. Telepathy is a mind-layer communication and begins at 2D. Telepathic communication may occur between 2D animals, between 2D animals and 3D humans, or among 3D humans, 3D humans and 3D inner-plane entities, for example.

if you boil it down to that, entire existence uses the same blueprint, all energy centers are present in potentiation in all densities, and spirit is already there even in 1d, or earlier, and it just becomes noticeable at the end of 2d. also unity/unison is there in 2d too, even before cocreatorship of 6d.

however there are differences in between them. the conscious part plays the role, very probably. there is communication in between entities even in deeper levels than that, like roots of the mind. but, it gets interpreted by even the most able and advanced entities as intuition or inspiration or 'inner knowing'. however in the end, it is still concepts/knowledge/states of being going here and there.

How is "density" used in relation to earth spirits, faeries, demons and other "inner plane" entities?

this is a good question. trying to answer it would probably take us to the difference in between space/time and time/space. for, in 4th density, or 5th density, there is still space/time, and time/space difference. so, there is physical and astral, still in those spaces.

yet the physical parts of these densities, from what i understand from what we are told in spiritual materials, do not overlap. there is the case of channeled entities materializing with the usage of deep trance by medium and some manifestation that causes ectoplasm to be created. so, in this situation these disincarnate entities can touch 3d incarnated entities. ok. and, ectoplasm is also reported being touchable.

we know that the density phenomenon is produced by core vibration of the photon. so, for a matter in 4d vibration spectrum, to be touchable by 3d vibration spectrum, does the 4d vibration have to descend in frequency to match 3d spectrum ? or, for astral 3d vibrations/models to become touchable by physical 3d, a similar lowering of vibration is needed ?

then, when frequency is raised, will the touchable become untouchable before, and etheric so that one can pass through the other and no effect may come out ? or, the two totally lose any kind of sight/interaction possibility with each other ?

or, is it so that, all densities' physicalities are able to interact with each other, to this or that extent, with the difference of the 4d+ densities being the ability to hide their presence from the lower ones ?

if so, then that means the 4d sphere would be here, currently be overlapping the 3d sphere because 3-4d entities are incarnated on the planet ? and when the 4d becomes totally separate from 3d, will the 4d entities be living in locations that are still on this physicaly globe, but, isolated from the 3d entities/locations, whereas being able to hide their presence from them ?

the prominent key questions here here are :

- is there any kind of dimension difference in between 3d material and 4d material as we know it
- whether these two can touch/interact with each other while both are in their native vibrational frequency or pass through each other

[zenmaster]

Not to get hung up on the point, but the astral or inner-plane entities of 3D (i.e. little people) communicate telepathically - they can navigate your unconscious and show movie-quality imagery.
Recently deceased 3D relatives, for example, can communicate telepathically with the living.
3D adepts can communicate telepathically.

So I think we pretty much have ruled out telepathy as being unique to 4D and certainly have ruled out it being a function of only an adept. And it certainly is not mere intuition or inspiration or 'inner knowing'.

It does seem to be more of a time/space phenomenon.

If you have not personally experienced this before, and want to learn more, you might consider reading some material by Robert Monroe that relates more of that subject - Ultimate Journey was good.

[unity100]

Not to get hung up on the point, but the astral or inner-plane entities of 3D (i.e. little people) communicate telepathically - they can navigate your unconscious and show movie-quality imagery.
Recently deceased 3D relatives, for example, can communicate telepathically with the living.
3D adepts can communicate telepathically.

So I think we pretty much have ruled out telepathy as being unique to 4D and certainly have ruled out it being a function of only an adept. And it certainly is not mere intuition or inspiration or 'inner knowing'.

It does seem to be more of a time/space phenomenon.

maybe i should have stated clearly that these considerations involve physical side of existence. surely there arent the same limitations in 3d time/space. and, time/space is itself 'etheric' (insert whatever proper word to use here) and fluid that, our considerations are probably not directly relevant to it.

our questions involve physical manifestation.

[zenmaster]

Mind is a time/space construct. Simply put, there is no communication (or life) without it. The so-called physical is necessarily of time/space (or non-local) as well (all atoms have time components). It's just that the focus of consciousness is biased towards space/time perception, while we are 'here'. The unconscious, and subconscious, which we necessarily draw upon when perceiving or evaluating anything (any ego faculty), or learning anything, are of time/space. A very small percentage of what makes us alive and interesting is only in space/time.

Reducing consciousness to space/time only pushes us back to a mechanical view of existence where thoughts and memory 'are' electrical pulses, and the universe is a container of matter.

[unity100]

both time and space are two facets of whatever they are part of, and distributed over each other in differing weights to create space/time and time/space. this is ok. even if it is a very small portion of existence, space/time is still there, and not only that, but what happens in that portion affects what happens in time/space to a great extent. (mere 75,000 year 3d cycle determining the path a soul goes for millions and millions of years).

this is not a consciousness question, or philosophical existence question.

space/time exists, there are certain mechanics we are told to have been created for its manifestation at the start of the creation of this existence.

the question is, what is the mechanic that was set to create the density phenomenon.

[zenmaster]

both time and space are two facets of whatever they are part of, and distributed over each other in differing weights to create space/time and time/space. this is ok. even if it is a very small portion of existence, space/time is still there, and not only that, but what happens in that portion affects what happens in time/space to a great extent. (mere 75,000 year 3d cycle determining the path a soul goes for millions and millions of years).

this is not a consciousness question, or philosophical existence question.

space/time exists, there are certain mechanics we are told to have been created for its manifestation at the start of the creation of this existence.

the question is, what is the mechanic that was set to create the density phenomenon.

A very rough idea that I have:

The successive densities/octaves of creation is a manifestation of light, spiraling upwards to increasingly complex forms. Each density/octave transcends, but includes the prior density/octave.

The Ra material seems to be presented from the standpoint of "dialectical monism". So, mechanically, each new possibility provided by the new duality is a like a new 'degree of freedom'.

1D = space/time and time/space components only (but spiraling up to next level)
2D = 1D s/t (2D s/t and t/s) and 1D t/s (2D s/t and t/s)

also the focus on consciousness seems to follow some kind of pattern: "me" 1D, "we" 2D, "me" 3D, "we" 4D..etc

---

It occurred to me that if each density has seven sub-densities, and 1st density (physics/chemistry) is the most practically measurable in an objective manner, then we might more easily see a basic (mechanically reducible) progression of complexification in discretely recognizable steps within that density. Is there an already-recognizable 7-fold structure or law (not just the light spectrum) that we've discovered?

What we call physics is really the plan or template of the logos - the logos is the deterministic principle or the law/opportunity provider. There are analogs to physical and chemical processes all the way up the densities (i.e. "love" or "spiritual seeking" as gravity or chemical bonding).

[unity100]

The Ra material seems to be presented from the standpoint of "dialectical monism". So, mechanically, each new possibility provided by the new duality is a like a new 'degree of freedom'.

'new degree of freedom' with each level idea seems perceptive. it indeed seems as such.

1D = space/time and time/space components only (but spiraling up to next level)
2D = 1D s/t (2D s/t and t/s) and 1D t/s (2D s/t and t/s)

so you say that in 2d, there is 1d space time, but it has 2d time/space ? but it also contains 1d time/space too ?

i put it this way, because what you described there seems like just addition of 2d to 1d, in t/s and s/t.

also the focus on consciousness seems to follow some kind of pattern: "me" 1D, "we" 2D, "me" 3D, "we" 4D..etc

---

1d is more probably 'we' in an infinite fashion, since everything is united in that state.

like
we 1d, we/me 2d, me 3d, me/we 4d, me/we 5d, we 6d.

It occurred to me that if each density has seven sub-densities, and 1st density (physics/chemistry) is the most practically measurable in an objective manner, then we might more easily see a basic (mechanically reducible) progression of complexification in discretely recognizable steps within that density. Is there an already-recognizable 7-fold structure or law (not just the light spectrum) that we've discovered?

not that i know of.

What we call physics is really the plan or template of the logos - the logos is the deterministic principle or the law/opportunity provider. There are analogs to physical and chemical processes all the way up the densities (i.e. "love" or "spiritual seeking" as gravity or chemical bonding).

yes with the fine detail of the local logoi being able to modify the laws according to their preference, despite not being able to change core of the laws. (ie, various physics constants were discovered not to be same everywhere in universe)

[Peregrinus]

like
we 1d, we/me 2d, me 3d, me/we 4d, me/we 5d, we 6d.

perhaps

Positive path: we 1d, we/me 2d, me/we 3d, me/we 4d, me/we 5d*, we 6d.

*Because understanding of unity is the requirement for graduation to the 5th density, is it possible that 5D is 'we' only as well as 6D?

Negative path: we 1d, we/me 2d, me 3d, me 4d, me 5d, me/we 6d.

yes with the fine detail of the local logoi being able to modify the laws according to their preference, despite not being able to change core of the laws. (ie, various physics constants were discovered not to be same everywhere in universe)

I believe any law of physics as we know it may be changed by the Logos at any time, though is only done during regular intervals (as the striking of the clock upon the hour). As it currently is, there are a number of areas where our human brother scientists are currently perplexed.

[unity100]

like
we 1d, we/me 2d, me 3d, me/we 4d, me/we 5d, we 6d.

perhaps

Positive path: we 1d, we/me 2d, me/we 3d, me/we 4d, me/we 5d*, we 6d.

*Because understanding of unity is the requirement for graduation to the 5th density, is it possible that 5D is 'we' only as well as 6D?

i dropped the me there because it is possible to spend 5d without being member of a society complex.

I believe any law of physics as we know it may be changed by the Logos at any time, though is only done during regular intervals (as the striking of the clock upon the hour). As it currently is, there are a number of areas where our human brother scientists are currently perplexed.

ra had had said that the mechanics are set by the infinite intelligence at creation start (all of them) however they are modifiable by logoi.

then they had commented on the density subject, saying that the logoi could condense densities and shorten them etc ( like how it is in 3d here ) but, the ratios (when the route from 1 to 8d put together) would always remain the same. (another reason why Ra had to spend a lot of time in 5d after harmonious 3d graduation and speedy 4d experience).

so i guess it is similar with the natural laws too. it was discovered that constants vary from locale to locale in galaxy. they are not gone away, there, but, their values are changed. the law remains the same, but values are modified.

[zenmaster]

The Ra material seems to be presented from the standpoint of "dialectical monism". So, mechanically, each new possibility provided by the new duality is a like a new 'degree of freedom'.

'new degree of freedom' with each level idea seems perceptive. it indeed seems as such.

1D = space/time and time/space components only (but spiraling up to next level)
2D = 1D s/t (2D s/t and t/s) and 1D t/s (2D s/t and t/s)

so you say that in 2d, there is 1d space time, but it has 2d time/space ? but it also contains 1d time/space too ?

i put it this way, because what you described there seems like just addition of 2d to 1d, in t/s and s/t.

It's basically a bifurcation, where 2D s/t (or t/s) has a 'root' or derivative component (if my math vocabulary is accurate) in 1D space or time. That amount complexity is just enough to allow for the sustaining, self-organizing, or growth of structures that we associate with life (and mind). I'll look in Larson's "Beyond Space and Time" to see if it's discussed.
I will follow up on this later.

also the focus on consciousness seems to follow some kind of pattern: "me" 1D, "we" 2D, "me" 3D, "we" 4D..etc

1d is more probably 'we' in an infinite fashion, since everything is united in that state.

like
we 1d, we/me 2d, me 3d, me/we 4d, me/we 5d, we 6d.

In other words, we = from-one-to-all, or outward, and me = from-all-to-one, or inward. The subdensities of 3D have the same pattern (again Spiral Dynamics vMemes).

[Poffo]

It occurred to me that if each density has seven sub-densities, and 1st density (physics/chemistry) is the most practically measurable in an objective manner, then we might more easily see a basic (mechanically reducible) progression of complexification in discretely recognizable steps within that density. Is there an already-recognizable 7-fold structure or law (not just the light spectrum) that we've discovered?

What we call physics is really the plan or template of the logos - the logos is the deterministic principle or the law/opportunity provider. There are analogs to physical and chemical processes all the way up the densities (i.e. "love" or "spiritual seeking" as gravity or chemical bonding).

Hey zenmaster. I'm not sure if it will exactly fit what you're looking for, but Arthur M. Young's "Theory of Process" may help expand your seeking in this direction. The ideas were formally explicated in his book The Reflexive Universe, which I would recommend highly to any seeker who enjoys exploring philosophical interpretations of scienctific knowledge. To get a very basic grasp of his sevenfold structure I would visit this page and go to section C.

In short, I believe that his sevenfold breakdown of the physical universe makes for a good generalization of various relationships between the entities which make up the first 3 densities.

/:idea:

[zenmaster]

I'm not sure if it will exactly fit what you're looking for, but Arthur M. Young's "Theory of Process" may help expand your seeking in this direction. The ideas were formally explicated in his book The Reflexive Universe, which I would recommend highly to any seeker who enjoys exploring philosophical interpretations of scienctific knowledge. To get a very basic grasp of his sevenfold structure I would visit this page and go to section C.

In short, I believe that his sevenfold breakdown of the physical universe makes for a good generalization of various relationships between the entities which make up the first 3 densities.

Thanks Poffo. You've reminded me (one who enjoys exploring philosophical interpretations of scientific knowledge) that I have a copy of The Reflexive Universe. Will take a look.

[unity100]

ok, we are waiting.

[zenmaster]

At 1D we have the differentiated aspects of unity in the form of space and time: s/t or t/s. They can be thought of as qualities (i.e. linear or circular, causal or acausal) or as domains (i.e. physical or metaphysical). Psychologically, we impose the duality which makes them distinct, but inherently, the aspects are one in the same thing - like yin and yang.

However, at 2D we've added another s/t component in each aspect. This 2nd component allows us to establish a reference or base from which to consider another aspect. We can think of the reference as 'objective' and 'subjective' depending from which 'domain' the evaluation takes place.

It does appear that each identifiable part of "reality" has intrinsic "subjective" and "objective" aspects regardless of the notion of an observer. The "subjective" aspect (or the qualities of time) provides orientation, whereas the "objective" aspect (or the qualities of space) provides proportion. (This subjective property of orientation (a temporal aspect) may provide a clue to a more workable means to couple Larson's 'scalar motion' with a vectorial direction in Larson's 'extension space'.)

Both systems are objective and subjective. When you consider the objective case, it is an abstraction based on some understood principles - you have forced a background and context by separating something inherently whole into parts and sequence. When you consider the subjective case, the phenomena describes itself from an ineffable periphery of wholeness and creates its own context in a novel and ad hoc manner - not very scientific. We tend to dismiss the subjective component in science because we need to understand based on what we have logically established as already known. However all observation, and therefore all science, necessarily involves subjective understanding.

Arthur M. Young (inventor of the helicopter) seems to also hold a similar idea regarding the need to be able to represent the subjective element of observation in science:

At this point, the scientific reader is likely to object that such considerations are irrelevant to scientific objectivity, which is concerned only with such description of the object as would be common to all observers. Science, he points out, is careful to eliminate just that aspect of observation that we are reinstating by emphasis on the spherical coordinates of the observer. Apparent size and orientation are not objective realities and have no significance for scientific inquiry.

We could answer this criticism by pointing out that, since the conditions we are emphasizing are present in all scientific observations, they are as much a part of reality as are the objective determinations themselves, not because they concern the object but because they are an inevitable part of the act of observation. Support of the importance of the relation between observer and observed in a world scheme comes both from Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle and from the theory of relativity. The former calls attention to the inevitable energy exchange involved in observation of individual particles such as electrons, an exchange which makes complete predictability and, hence, objective determination impossible in theory as well as in fact. The latter calls attention to the impossibility of establishing simultaneity, and, hence, of the impossibility of identical world views.

Since science is based on observation, and observation involves dimensionalities which are not necessarily objective, we must give attention to just those aspects of the act of measurement which underlie or precede objectivity.

http://www.arthuryoung.com/wwexc.html

[unity100]

the subjective element is not useful for us in this however :

the properties of 4d, is brought by 4d vibrations in core photon vibration. it is a physical and measurable situation. this, then gives the properties of 4d, to the 4d physical. and this will be what determines whether a material vibrating in 4d spectrum, will collide with a material vibrating in 3d spectrum, or not.

[zenmaster]

the subjective element is not useful for us in this however :

the properties of 4d, is brought by 4d vibrations in core photon vibration. it is a physical and measurable situation. this, then gives the properties of 4d, to the 4d physical. and this will be what determines whether a material vibrating in 4d spectrum, will collide with a material vibrating in 3d spectrum, or not.

Probably not. I was still deducing the properties of 2D (vs 1D), in order to answer the question of what a 'density' was.

Since we do not really understand the electrical properties of 1D, let alone 2D, I'm not sure how we can really determine the nature of incompatibility between 3D and 4D.

What's confusing further is that the 'dual-activated' entities have 4D and 3D bodies which are compatible with each other.

[unity100]

Probably not. I was still deducing the properties of 2D (vs 1D), in order to answer the question of what a 'density' was.

yes that might be a fertile direction.

Since we do not really understand the electrical properties of 1D, let alone 2D, I'm not sure how we can really determine the nature of incompatibility between 3D and 4D.

we can go from analogies and similar patterns, to determine approximate nature of the interaction in between densities. that might help shape a broad picture, which then can be completed with details.

What's confusing further is that the 'dual-activated' entities have 4D and 3D bodies which are compatible with each other.

it seems that these dual activated bodies, are activated in some ways which will allow them to 'appreciate' (ra says) certain qualities of 4th vibration.

[zenmaster]

What's confusing further is that the 'dual-activated' entities have 4D and 3D bodies which are compatible with each other.

it seems that these dual activated bodies, are activated in some ways which will allow them to 'appreciate' (ra says) certain qualities of 4th vibration.

Presumably, the dual-activated entity is wholly 4D in both mind and spirit, while being some percentage 3D + some percentage 4D in a 'conjugated', transitional body complex. This may mean that the dual-activated brain, the body complex's "device driver" for the mind complex, will necessarily have some 3D limitations when accessing 4D mind.

I suspect that 4D has some analogous characteristics of 2D, along with the "we" aspect, such as "the striving towards light and growth." It is possible that with 4D, this process is not under conscious control and can be disruptive due to the manner in which consciousness maintains the body. I have no idea what that may mean.

Anyway, another interesting thing is that like 90% the entities on the new 4D earth will be from another Logos, since there will be very few local 3D graduates. So although these 4D wanderers now have a new long-term home, they would naturally feel a little strange with the natural patterns, just like the 3D-incarnated wanderers did.

The 4D "culture" would still presumably obtain a seeking-style bias from the majority of one particular group of incarnates - all now remembering their past lives to some extent. I wonder what the mixture would be like, and how random a set up it actually is?

[unity100]

Presumably, the dual-activated entity is wholly 4D in both mind and spirit, while being some percentage 3D + some percentage 4D in a 'conjugated', transitional body complex.

plausible.

This may mean that the dual-activated brain, the body complex's "device driver" for the mind complex, will necessarily have some 3D limitations when accessing 4D mind.

i think it would be more like the mind, capable of 4d activity, would be difficulties in manifesting the thoughts/feelings/ideas related to 4d, due to the limitations of the body.

Anyway, another interesting thing is that like 90% the entities on the new 4D earth will be from another Logos, since there will be very few local 3D graduates. So although these 4D wanderers now have a new long-term home, they would naturally feel a little strange with the natural patterns, just like the 3D-incarnated wanderers did.

depends on total population of the 4d sphere though.

it is no question that new 4d incarnates are going to be increasingly uncomfortable and incompatible with existing society, and its societal mind.

The 4D "culture" would still presumably obtain a seeking-style bias from the majority of one particular group of incarnates - all now remembering their past lives to some extent. I wonder what the mixture would be like, and how random a set up it actually is?

maybe or maybe not. the 'seeking' fixation seems to be a particularity of this local logos. in 4d, since the veil is not there, there wont be a particular bias/mechanic for seeking or enforcing seeking or hampering it so that 'those who actually seek would be more intensified'.

..................

however apart from these, the main question still remains : what differentiates 3d, and 4d, and whether any material that is vibrating in these two different spectrums, can collide, or not.

[zenmaster]

This may mean that the dual-activated brain, the body complex's "device driver" for the mind complex, will necessarily have some 3D limitations when accessing 4D mind.

i think it would be more like the mind, capable of 4d activity, would be difficulties in manifesting the thoughts/feelings/ideas related to 4d, due to the limitations of the body.

That's what I thought I was implying.

Anyway, another interesting thing is that like 90% the entities on the new 4D earth will be from another Logos, since there will be very few local 3D graduates. So although these 4D wanderers now have a new long-term home, they would naturally feel a little strange with the natural patterns, just like the 3D-incarnated wanderers did.

depends on total population of the 4d sphere though.

it is no question that new 4d incarnates are going to be increasingly uncomfortable and incompatible with existing society, and its societal mind.

I would think the opposite: they would start out disoriented, because most of the initial access would be the 3rd-density societal mind, then gradually form a 4d SMC, as more and more of that mind could be accessed.

The 4D "culture" would still presumably obtain a seeking-style bias from the majority of one particular group of incarnates - all now remembering their past lives to some extent. I wonder what the mixture would be like, and how random a set up it actually is?

maybe or maybe not. the 'seeking' fixation seems to be a particularity of this local logos. in 4d, since the veil is not there, there wont be a particular bias/mechanic for seeking or enforcing seeking or hampering it so that 'those who actually seek would be more intensified'.

I did not mean a fixation, just however they choose to live, which presumably is based on what has been prior experience and evolves to that which their higher-selves had programmed. They are new to 4D.. there is no 4D memory or culture, but they are referencing all of their memory from their respective 3D lives which had learned enough of the "lessons of love" (or better - lessons of the logos) to make sufficiently informed choices. As more and more join the 4D SMC, all that info becomes shared.
..................

however apart from these, the main question still remains : what differentiates 3d, and 4d, and whether any material that is vibrating in these two different spectrums, can collide, or not.

It appears that during the transitional period, nature allows and supports growth of both types of bodies with obviously a great deal of proximate interaction and compatibility. The 3D body and mind, however, will be supported less and less due to the reduction in yellow ray matrix.

Apparently, the 3D body can survive in the dual environment up until the point there is no longer any supporting yellow-ray activity. But since the transition is longer than the average lifetime, there simply will be no 3D material available to collide. Remember the 3D "body" or material is supported directly by 3D mind - it's not at all like the 1D body (with its physical chemicals). If, however, scientists find a way to increase lifespan (i.e. genetic discoveries), it seems there could be a problem.

Also, if all new births after a certain point will be 4D, it seems that we should be hearing a great deal about a strange new phenomenon: more and more pregnant mothers (of dual-activated babies) experiencing a great feeling of the connection and the use of spiritual energies.

So maybe we'll have these mothers being regarded by some as shamans, and people will go to them for advice, healing, and what not.

[Peregrinus]

3rd density will not be here when the social memory complex is formed in 4D, as I believe Ra stated that it would be half way through 4D when the complex is typically formed, and the length is

43.13 Questioner: How long is a cycle of experience in fourth density in our years?

Ra: The cycle of experience is approximately 30 million of your years if the entities are not capable of being harvested sooner. There is in this density a harvest which is completely the function of the readiness of the social memory complex. It is not structured as is your own, for it deals with a more transparent distortion of the One Infinite Creator.

There is on this planet between 400 to 500 years of 3rd density light left.

[zenmaster]

3rd density will not be here when the social memory complex is formed in 4D, as I believe Ra stated that it would be half way through 4D when the complex is typically formed, and the length is

43.13 Questioner: How long is a cycle of experience in fourth density in our years?

Ra: The cycle of experience is approximately 30 million of your years if the entities are not capable of being harvested sooner. There is in this density a harvest which is completely the function of the readiness of the social memory complex. It is not structured as is your own, for it deals with a more transparent distortion of the One Infinite Creator.

Correct, but were you addressing any particular point?

[quote='Peregrinus' pid='26233' dateline='1294202054']
There is on this planet between 400 to 500 years of 3rd density light left.

Possibly.

[Peregrinus]

Correct, but were you addressing any particular point?

Yes, this one.

I would think the opposite: they would start out disoriented, because most of the initial access would be the 3rd-density societal mind, then gradually form a 4d Social Memory Complex, as more and more of that mind could be accessed.

Third density societal mind will be gone long before a fourth density societal memory complex is formed; close to fifteen million years gone.

[zenmaster]

Correct, but were you addressing any particular point?

Yes, this one.

I would think the opposite: they would start out disoriented, because most of the initial access would be the 3rd-density societal mind, then gradually form a 4d Social Memory Complex, as more and more of that mind could be accessed.

Third density societal mind will be gone long before a fourth density societal memory complex is formed; close to fifteen million years gone.

We were talking about the 4D graduates. Again, initially the dual-activated people will be accessing 3rd-density societal mind - being mostly wanderers, esp initially, they will be confused due to coming from different logos. There will be a lot of odd people around - like L.A.
Presumably, once yellow-ray is gone, 3D societal mind is gone. What's left? 4D societal mind then on to 4D SMC. I don't see why the emphasis on 3D being 15 million years gone.

[Peregrinus]

We were talking about the 4D graduates. Again, initially the dual-activated people will be accessing 3rd-density societal mind - being mostly wanderers, esp initially, they will be confused due to coming from different logos. There will be a lot of odd people around - like L.A.

Where do/did you get the idea that most dual activated mbsc are wanderers?

Once the 3rd density veil thins enough, there can be no confusion among wanderers, for being aware/conscious will remove any possibility of confusion or misunderstanding, even if such may be possible for those of 4th density graduation.

I don't see why the emphasis on 3D being 15 million years gone.

I was simply saying that formation of a social memory complex will not begin for many millions of years in 4D, and as such, discussing how it will interact with 3rd density complex of any type is moot.