Bilambil alien video

[zenmaster]

And are you saying Q'uo has 'fallen for' it? (whatever 'it' is which is the part I don't understand.)

That is my understanding from reading the sessions. By 'it', I meant the mistake of confusing prepersonal (early development) with transpersonal (later development). Don't get me wrong, I too resonate with the material and I know it takes a high vibration to receive this info. But I am certain this mistake or fallacy was made and is still being made. (Sorry, I don't have the session date handy.)

All channeled material has some degree of distortion. If you feel a mistake was made in the transmission, it is more likely due to either misinterpretation or distortion than to Q'uo's 'mistake.'

Sure, then there are no such things as mistakes.. don't take the term too literally or as some kind of criticism. I think it's just a demonstration that the Carla-Qu'o combo can be quite 'human'.

[Lavazza]

Hey Zenmaster,

thanks for your post #15. What you say is completely true! I wanted to quickly relate with a personal anecdote, if ya'll will humor me..

For most of my life I fell in to the open minded category. Neither believer or skeptic, simply undecided and basically uninterested in spiritual or paranormal things. Then in 2008 that changed pretty dramatically, and I'll skip the details as to why as it's long and not directly relevant here. Anyways- I became, and am interested in still now, PSI research, UFOs, spirituality, and those bits of scientific evidence that we have to support the validity of such things.

Shortly after 'awakening' to the possibilities of these things, I found that one of my good friends was also interested in them... er, that is, "debunking" them. He was and is way skeptical of most things. I was really excited to talk about everything I was learning, and doing this caused much friction that resulted in heat on my brow. I felt angry by his skeptical responses which felt (to my perspective) as if he was marginalizing what was very profound and important to me. I didn't realize it at the time, but I see now that at this point I became much less objective and discerning. My greatest wish was to have some sort of bullet proof evidence that my friend could not refute. But it wouldn't be for his benefit, it would have been for me. Just as you said happens, I was selective in what I looked at and ignored what didn't support my ideas. That's what moves someone away from that slippery thing we call "truth".

I'd like to fancy myself more objective these days. I guess it's worth noting that people such as us (meaning, those of us who accept the LOO as true to the best of our reckoning) can easily bend in the direction of 'true believer' simply by living in a society where such concepts as channeling are routinely laughed at. Channeling is the first thing you have to accept if you accept anything in the LOO. To me, the LOO philosophy is extremely elegant and beautiful, and I DO hold it close to my heart. So hearing people laugh at channeling, UFOs and other things that are related to it does hurt me a little tiny bit, and may contribute to my unconsciously moving in the direction of true believer / unobjective.

What do you guys think of that last train of thought?

[zenmaster]

I'd like to fancy myself more objective these days. I guess it's worth noting that people such as us (meaning, those of us who accept the LOO as true to the best of our reckoning) can easily bend in the direction of 'true believer' simply by living in a society where such concepts as channeling are routinely laughed at. Channeling is the first thing you have to accept if you accept anything in the LOO. To me, the LOO philosophy is extremely elegant and beautiful, and I DO hold it close to my heart. So hearing people laugh at channeling, UFOs and other things that are related to it does hurt me a little tiny bit, and may contribute to my unconsciously moving in the direction of true believer / unobjective.

What do you guys think of that last train of thought?

I might have (privately) laughed at channeling. I originally didn't think it was useful and worth investigation. I grouped it with 'new-ager's enjoying spiritual experiences with their intuitions', and thought that it was mainly wish fulfillment by unworldly, unbalanced, hyper-intuitive individuals.

However, later after reading quite a bit, having certain experiences, and understanding symbol, metaphor, and allegory I discovered that these too are legitimate and useful aspects of reality just like the more conventional historical and literal aspects are. In fact, I later came to understand that the symbolic or spiritual information that we perceive with our intuitions is of a higher order - offering not only vast creative potential, but connecting us to meaning and purpose.

One of the main reasons we tend to laugh at something is due to a reaction from fear. Fear is a distancing mechanism and with fear one can not learn. Fear has an opposite in hope, the ego's magnification mechanism. Can't learn with hope either. In between the two lies curiosity, where something can be seen without ego bias, and learning (or teaching) is possible.

I think it's remarkable that, although a wanderer may have experienced many millions of years evolving self, they can come to 3rd density and ignore learning potential. They are invariably biased to the more subtle energies (i.e. indicated by activity restricted to the upper chakras) and sort of get lost in some claustrophobic intimacy with 'higher realms', or become mesmerized, distracted in a state of spiritual pride or of hope or longing for something higher. They tend to put their spiritual nature on a 'pedestal', out of reach and not actually own, or examine or question what it means to them. Here, in 3rd density is an amazing opportunity to make things 'real' through actually determining our biases, but the opportunity is often thrown away in wanderers' 'la-la land' natures.

So it's a 'good thing' that channeling or new-age thought is ignored or even laughed at, because it often is not capable of offering anything of value to a lot of the development that takes place here. If the wanderers presenting the information never bothered to bridge their own lower and higher levels of understanding (i.e. not capable of reaching down), how can they ever expect their audience to include those who are 'reaching up'?
You can see this situation explained in the "Green valuing Meme" or pluralistic stage of Spiral Dynamics. Not an integral or holistic valuing level, "Green", with its inflated pluralism, completely ignores and rejects the actual conditions which practically serve to bring those centered at the lower levels (lower subdensities) higher.

So while the wanderer may be "lightening the vibration of the planet", at the same time, the service they could offer others by serving as a 'bridge' to this light - by becoming more fully balanced by including their 'lower natures' in their own development - is considerable. How can one be a steward of 3D life without appreciating the value of 3D life conditions here?

[Lavazza]

I think it's remarkable that, although a wanderer may have experienced many millions of years evolving self, they can come to 3rd density and ignore learning potential. They are invariably biased to the more subtle energies (i.e. indicated by activity restricted to the upper chakras) and sort of get lost in some claustrophobic intimacy with 'higher realms', or become mesmerized, distracted in a state of spiritual pride or of hope or longing for something higher. They tend to put their spiritual nature on a 'pedestal', out of reach and not actually own, or examine or question what it means to them. Here, in 3rd density is an amazing opportunity to make things 'real' through actually determining our biases, but the opportunity is often thrown away in wanderers' 'la-la land' natures.

For what it's worth, I think there may be many types of wanderers who incarnate to accomplish their own goals. It's possible that having some of the attributes you listed above are just what they need to carry out their mission. This might make no sense to someone else, or even to themselves, and yet their higher self may see that their lower self is doing it perfectly. Just speculation of course.

So it's a 'good thing' that channeling or new-age thought is ignored or even laughed at, because it often is not capable of offering anything of value to a lot of the development that takes place here. If the wanderers presenting the information never bothered to bridge their own lower and higher levels of understanding (i.e. not capable of reaching down), how can they ever expect their audience to include those who are 'reaching up'?

As far as it being good or bad, I don't really know. It just is as it is, although it makes me feel bad sometimes, ha! Which of course is a quick indicator that I've something to work on there. But anyways, I agree with a part of the above in that there are very specific lessons to be learned here on Earth in a 3D body, that you just can't get any other way so quickly. (I am reminded of what Ra said about crawling in the dark with a candle and working vs. seeing everything at once and in full context, but being unable to do the work) And that's why we're here of course, to crawl and learn. I've thought about that a bit lately, actually. There are lots of threads here on the forum where we're trying to dissect and understand things like time/space, octaves, infinity and so on. While this is sort of fun to me, it's really an exercise in intellectual thought and not essential in any way to what we came here to do. It might even be distracting if taken to excess. I mean, why would we go to the trouble of being born, then going through all our years of growth and development, just to become an expert on something we were an expert on by default before we were born? Not just that, but doing so now with only part of the story (Ra material) and doing it in the opposite dimension (space/time) where our very nature as physical beings makes it really hard to understand, even if we got it right?

I say it's a far better use of time to try and understand the relationship you have with your father in law. Or to figure out just why you get angry when your spouse doesn't put her shoes to the side of the room instead of leaving them in the middle... Or do try and figure out why your first response is a lie when you are asked about being late for a meeting. Or, of course, taking on the bigger and more obvious issues you might have. (We <i>all</i> have <i>some</i> issues...) That's the real meat of what we're doing here I think- even if we get the conclusions wrong, the mere effort of trying to love more honestly or live more in harmony with yourself is a worthy goal and probably means the world to our overall goals across incarnations.

Whoa, sorry for the side tangent there

So while the wanderer may be "lightening the vibration of the planet", at the same time, the service they could offer others by serving as a 'bridge' to this light - by becoming more fully balanced by including their 'lower natures' in their own development - is considerable. How can one be a steward of 3D life without appreciating the value of 3D life conditions here?

You sort of lost me at the end here, do you mean that channelers would be more effective in communicating their information (or wanderers more effective in radiating their being) if they were more grounded in reality themselves, so that they could better relate to most peoples' everyday experience? I think you may be one to something if that's what you intended. As it happens, I know many people of whom I suspect Wanderer's status and are easy to talk to / understand. They're great people to be around.

L&L, E

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I've moved part of this chat in to a new thread, here:
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=2040

[zenmaster]

I think it's remarkable that, although a wanderer may have experienced many millions of years evolving self, they can come to 3rd density and ignore learning potential. They are invariably biased to the more subtle energies (i.e. indicated by activity restricted to the upper chakras) and sort of get lost in some claustrophobic intimacy with 'higher realms', or become mesmerized, distracted in a state of spiritual pride or of hope or longing for something higher. They tend to put their spiritual nature on a 'pedestal', out of reach and not actually own, or examine or question what it means to them. Here, in 3rd density is an amazing opportunity to make things 'real' through actually determining our biases, but the opportunity is often thrown away in wanderers' 'la-la land' natures.

For what it's worth, I think there may be many types of wanderers who incarnate to accomplish their own goals. It's possible that having some of the attributes you listed above are just what they need to carry out their mission. This might make no sense to someone else, or even to themselves, and yet their higher self may see that their lower self is doing it perfectly. Just speculation of course.

Of course. My point was that potential is still ignored due to self-satisfaction, or getting into a safe "comfort zone", for example. The plan is always more ambitious that what can be actualized.

So while the wanderer may be "lightening the vibration of the planet", at the same time, the service they could offer others by serving as a 'bridge' to this light - by becoming more fully balanced by including their 'lower natures' in their own development - is considerable. How can one be a steward of 3D life without appreciating the value of 3D life conditions here?

You sort of lost me at the end here, do you mean that channelers would be more effective in communicating their information (or wanderers more effective in radiating their being) if they were more grounded in reality themselves, so that they could better relate to most peoples' everyday experience? I think you may be one to something if that's what you intended. As it happens, I know many people of whom I suspect Wanderer's status and are easy to talk to / understand. They're great people to be around.

Exactly. Have you considered why they are great to be around? Basically, they have 'more' of something. Somehow they've created conditions of more acceptance. The only way I can see that happening is if they discovered a way to be more accepting of themselves and therefore others (and therefore less conditional). And since we all are unconsciously seeking this light - we respect it, innately.