Lucifer was the creator of STO/STS paradigm?

[MangusKhan]

There is an information that I read in only two sources: the Confederation would have been created in reason of Lucifer actions. Here one passage about this:

And Lucifer? No one spoke clearly of Lucifer’s activities following the famous incident at the council of starmakers and starmasters. Some said that this was all according to cosmic law, that Lucifer was no criminal, but an active principle of evolution. Not so for the Federation. In fact, it could be said that the Lucifer plot was the very reason for the Federation’s existence. After all, was it not the Federation  that imposed the quarantine on the Velatropa* sector in hopes of trapping and limiting the Luciferian experiment?

*“Place of the turning light.” Name of experimental zone of Galactic Mother within Northern Quadrant where Lucifer is quarantined by the Galactic Federation.

ASSUMING that Lucifer really was the creator of STO/STS paradigm, makes sense that an universe without STS entities would not need of a Confederation.

What you think?

Peace, love and light.

Agreed. There is no need for organised government in a creation where every being recognises every other as god. Only in Lucifer's domain is there anything to protect through means of a hierarchical control structure. I am intensely curious as to the eventual fate of these "experimental zones". One must assume that, distortion begetting distortion, things end up quite convoluted.

[Infinite]

I am intensely curious as to the eventual fate of these "experimental zones". One must assume that, distortion begetting distortion, things end up quite convoluted.

I don't believe in this but in one of the sources is talked that the entities which incarnate in 3D planets with duality are the ones who stood aside of Lucifer in the Rebellion. I don't know if this include the Wanderers. My vision is that the actions of Lucifer was mistakes that have become correct.

Peace, love and light.

[Infinite]

I discovered something about Lucifer.

First, I read this post of Aaron:

So is Lucifer a dark entity, or are they positive?

They are a comglomeration of negative souls. They are that ancient snake, the highest power of evil in our area of the Creation. If you are greeted by them, it feels like a vise-grip on your heart and you are staring into a black mirror which reflects and amplifies anything and everything evil and dark within you. When they appeared to me, (this was during an awfully misguided attempt to channel, along with two others) it was appearing in my mind's eye like a black dragon. It was momentarily awestruck by my energy, and then it instantly shut me out from its mind once it realized I was aware of it on that level. Another time when I interacted with them in a dream (with bone-chilling horror, raging anger, swiftness, and justice as I was forced to by an emergency situation involving a soul I love), they appeared like a gigantic black snake. 40-50 ft long and as wide around as a man is tall. A cold and calculating predator, thinking like a computer. They have a venom which affects the very soul of a man. Their temptation is horrific.

They are in the process of releasing polarity on their way through mid 6th density, I believe. They have at least two forms. They have this form of black intelligence which is in time/space, and apparently which has a physical counterpart driving negative polarization on Gaia. They also can incarnate as a human being and be subject to having their heart torn open. Be subject to FEELING and be subject to the karma of their sin. I have met one who has incarnated outside of the bloodline families for whatever reason. I believe he still has not penetrated his identity. I don't necessarily want to cause more pain and suffering to anyone by helping that process along prematurely. But I did ask him, completely out of the blue, what he thinks about the Illuminati currently attempting to enslave humanity. He got a surprised look on his face, then smirked. His response was along the lines of "How can you be sure it's an organized evil force and not just the spontaneous evil of man?" Of course they don't want to take responsibility for the negativity which they have seeded. Reminds me of the quote from the Hidden_Hand exchange: "Yahweh was, in effect, running a benign dictatorship." They sure do believe what they're bringing to the table is justified. It is a delicate matter to be of service, if it is at all possible.

I'm so confused and in awe at the Creation.

In the SAME DAY a friend recommended to me a brazilian book about reptilians and the author talk that Lucifer is the master of they. This friend already worked in a "disobssesion group". They worked in astral plane, disarticulating bases of negative aliens. My friend reached the conclusion that this is the big screen of these groups:

Greys: are behind fundamentalistics movements like nazism and religious sectarianism.

Reptlians: are behind freemasonry and falled esoteric orders (mainly with much rituals).

Insectoids: are behind Catholic Church.

******************************************************

Second, another friend that is ex-freemason say me this:

- The Freemasonry seek control of the luciferian energy that come from alpha draconis star. Reptilians supposedly come from dragon constellation. This is, freemasonry=lucifer=reptlian. Luciferians are reptilians.

Peace, love and light.

[Glow]

More and more and more separation! What happened to the Law of One? We are one.

[Infinite]

More and more and more separation! What happened to the Law of One? We are one.

I know that this is transitory. But I believe that this theme is very important to produce understanding. Anyway, this is what Lucifer represent, separation.

Peace, love and light.

[Infinite Unity]

I see it as each endeavor of exploring finity, is pushed to the limit of conceptual or achievable separation. To me I no longer see the creation as an exact copy of The One Infinite Creators being, but more like us as a Logos inspired by the Creator's Being. To me The Logos or Creation is like a negative image of The Creator, kinda like that you find of pictures. So Imagine our pictures are black and white, and you find all this color(being). I also think that's were you find the origin of negativity, and darkness. It originates from our being, and what we have thought along the way, of traveling The Creator. Of course all things proceed from The Creator. SO I believe we are kinda like focus points to "draw", and "bring4th" the unconscious of The Creator. That's how I see some things, and things always change, and then they don't, so yeah.

Now to further stimulate thoughts down this line. As focus points we are almost like alchemical ingredients, that bring about the desired reaction of exploration. Or that which explores the unconscious aspects of The Creator. Think about each situation, event, and everything in between. Is like an alchemical transmutation of using what is known, to discover what is not. Growing the Lotus in the desert.

Like each cell is an "ingredient" needed to make human. You are a "reaction", and apart of a bigger "reaction" then yourself currently knows. Element: soul
Now integrate the concept of spiritual mass, and you see how each element interacts and causes reactions. As pouring baking soda in coke. Reactions Reactions = States of being

[Infinite]

Supposing that Lucifer is one of those Logoi referred by Ra which first experimented the evolution through the free will, Lucifer didn't make any mistake right? So, the Lucifer's experiment was a natural process and not a "fall" as many religious texts talk about. Because I don't believe that a Logos can "miss". What do you think?

[Bring4th_Austin]

Supposing that Lucifer is one of those Logoi referred by Ra which first experimented the evolution through the free will, Lucifer didn't make any mistake right? So, the Lucifer's experiment was a natural process and not a "fall" as many religious texts talk about. Because I don't believe that a Logos can "miss". What do you think?

The sub-Logoi have the free will to alter and refine the intelligent energy provided by the Logos. They are continually refining and experimenting based on the experience gleaned from previous sub-Logoi, attempting to find methods to aid in the experience and polarization of consciousness of those sub-Logoi beneath them.

From the standpoint of a Logos or sub-Logos, "mistake" probably isn't a valid concept, though we might certainly see some results of these experiments as mistaken or even catastrophic. It's hard not to see what happened to Mars and Maldek (and possibly Earth) as a failure in the experiment, from our standpoint anyways.

However, given that after that first Logos who discovered how to extend free will to the point of allowing for negative polarity, the sub-Logoi continued with this method, I think it's safe to say that it is seen, from the standpoint of a sub-Logos, as the opposite of a mistake. If it were a mistake, they simply wouldn't continue offering that type of experience. It was actually a great success, because the presence of the negative polarity (or opportunity for it) is concordant with the deepening of free will, experience, and the ability to polarize positively in an effective manner. This was sort of like a "key" that it seemed the Logoi had been searching for, and since its discovery, they have continue refining it:

78.19
As proem let me state that the Logoi always conceived of themselves as offering free will to the sub-Logoi in their care. The sub-Logoi had freedom to experience and experiment with consciousness, the experiences of the body, and the illumination of the spirit. That having been said, we shall speak to the point of your query.

The first Logos to instill what you now see as free will, in the full sense, in its sub-Logoi came to this creation due to contemplation in depth of the concepts or possibilities of conceptualizations of what we have called the significators. The Logos posited the possibility of the mind, the body, and the spirit as being complex. In order for the significator to be what it is not, it then must be granted the free will of the Creator. This set in motion a quite lengthy, in your terms, series of Logoi improving or distilling this seed thought. The key was the significator becoming a complex.

I think that the idea of a "fall" is not significant in a literal sense, but can still be mythologically or symbolically significant. A key component to that sort of mythology, to me, is not that the fall resulted in the opportunity for evil to arise, but in doing so offered a deeper significance to "good" - for instance, Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. The knowledge of these two polarities was unknown prior, but after the "fall," they are both made apparent.

The fall can be likened to the darkness imposed by the veil, how we are now seemingly further away from the Creator (or from Eden) than before. We have fallen, in a sense. But we have done so by design and intention rather than by mistake, accident, or deception. I think that's where those religious texts go astray, and also stop making much sense. The act of falling from the Creator allows for us to then rediscover the Creator, which seems to be the point of all this to begin with.

I think it's worth reiterating that in this sense, if that first Logos was "Lucifer," then it has no relation to any sort of actual beings of evil, service to self, or negativity. It was simply one of the Creator's many agents of experience exploring how to deepen free will for those under its purview. The "Luciferian influence" is also not something the Confederation would want to stop or limit, because it is what also allows for positive polarization, which they want to encourage. It is the infringement of service-to-self entities that they want to limit, but they do so with the balance offered by the Council, who supposedly represent the Creator thanks to their divine balance. They maintain that balance through making decisions for the Confederation for the sake of the Creator and not necessarily because they don't like service-to-self entities.

[AnthroHeart]

So is Lucifer responsible for the negativity they brought into creation?
Are they responsible for every STS being's actions since teaching them that way?
And will they have a lot of karma to atone for?

[Infinite]

I think the informations about Lucifer of Drunvalo Melchizedek very good (though his vision has some Christian influences, because I believe the Logoi are far beyond the concept of battle):

The Lucifer Experiment: Duality

The words "the Lucifer rebellion" carry a stigma that has haunted mankind for at least since the Bible has been on Earth. Many of us humans, especially Christians, believe that Lucifer is the cause of all evil and darkness that has ever transpired on this planet. We call what Lucifer did a rebellion, projecting an image that Lucifer is somehow going against the universal cosmic plan. But unity consciousness sees Lucifer's work in a slightly different light. His work is not known as a rebellion, but as the Lucifer experiment.

Why would it be called an experiment? Because that is exactly what it is, a test to see if certain parameters of life will work. Life is an experiment!

The instructions from God at the beginning of the Lucifer experiment were for humans to live free will. But what does free will mean? Does it not mean all possibilities, both good and evil? Does it not mean that we would be allowed to do anything we wanted, with the idea, from a biblical point of view, that we would learn discrimination for the good?

Life was given the ability to do anything it wanted, all possibilities; it was given free will. Therefore, how could free will exist unless consciousness created the format for this way of being? And who creates consciousness? The one and only God. Lucifer did not create free will, but it was through his actions and decisions that free will became a reality. It was God who created Lucifer so that free will would exist. Before the Lucifer experiment, there was no free will except during the three other attempts. All life moved according to the will of God, according to the cosmic DMA. There were no deviations, and free will was only a potential that life could someday try.

At one point, because free will was possible, we realized that there was a particular way we could experience this reality that had not been tried before. So we tried it. We actually tried three versions of it, and each time it failed. They were absolute disasters. The latest experiment and fourth attempt, with Lucifer heading it, used a different approach to create free will. This time God chose an area of consciousness that was just above human existence: This experiment began with the angels. So it was the angels who brought this new freewill consciousness to mankind to be lived here in these dense worlds, and life everywhere watched to see how it would fare.

With great respect between two brothers, the battle between good and evil began. It was a battle to the death, yet neither could die. It was a battle that had to be, for it was the will of God. For the overall sake of the universe, Michael supported the side of the light and the good and Lucifer backed the side of darkness and evil. A new possibility was about to be lived. And we humans thought it was a great idea, this idea of free will.

The Bright and Shining One

It becomes clear in the study of sacred geometry that nothing was created without intention and reason. It wasn't just a mistake; in fact, there are no mistakes. And when God created Lucifer, as you can read in the Bible, he was the most magnificent angel God had ever created. He was the most intelligent, the most beautiful, the most amazing of all angels. So he had no peer; he was the top-of-the-line model of the angelic worlds. God gave him the name Lucifer, meaning "the bright and shining one." God gave him this name, so do you think God made a mistake?

If you think back to our own human nature, we always tend to look to our heroes as that which we want to become. We look up to those people who have gone before us, who have blazed the trail in the direction we feel we want to go, and we model much of our behavior after our heroes. Because of the understanding of "As above, so below," it is the same for Lucifer. He wanted to be like his heroes, but he didn't have anyone higher than himself in his realm. He didn't have any heroes. He was the greatest archangel in creation. There was no one greater than he. Rather, the only hero he had was God, who was the only being beyond him, from where he could see. So Lucifer did something very natural—and I feel sure that God was aware that this would take place when he created him. He wanted to be as good as God—to actually be God—from a creation level. There's nothing wrong with merging with God, but that isn't exactly what he wanted to do. He wanted to be just like God. In fact, he wanted to be even better than God. Lucifer wanted to surpass his hero.

Lucifer was so intelligent that he knew how the universe was created. He knew the images, the patterns and the codes that had created the universe. But in order to be greater than God, he decided that he would have to separate from God. As long as he was part of God, he could not go beyond Him. So, evidently with God's blessing (since He created him), Lucifer started on a great experiment to see what could be learned by creating in a different way from how God/Spirit had made the original creation. He severed the love bonds between himself and God and created a Mer-Ka-Ba field that was not based on love, because once he severed the love between himself and God, he could no longer make a living Mer-Ka-Ba.

Archangel Lucifer and many other angels started on this great experiment to see what could be learned in this new way. As we said, similar experiments had actually been tried three times before by other beings, but those experiments had ended in massive destruction and pain for everyone involved. Many planets had been completely destroyed, including one in our own solar system—Mars. But Lucifer was retrying this old experiment with a new method.

So he severed the love bonds between himself and God (at least it outwardly appears this way) and created a Mer-Ka-Ba field that was not based on love. What he did was make an interdimensional time-space machine that we call a spaceship. This flying object—sometimes seen as a flying saucer but also many other shapes—was more than just a vehicle as we think of it, much more. It could not only move throughout the spectrum of this multidimensional Reality, but it could create realities that seemed to be just as real as the original creation. It is similar to what we are now calling virtual reality, only this was a virtual reality that could not be distinguished from the real thing.

So Lucifer made this synthetic Mer-Ka-Ba to create a reality separate from God so that he could ascend to the heights and be just as good as God, at least in his own mind. He couldn't be God, but he could be like God, his hero.

Source: The Ancient Secret of The Flower of Life (vol.2) by Drunvalo Melchizedek.

[loostudent]

From the standpoint of a Logos or sub-Logos, "mistake" probably isn't a valid concept, though we might certainly see some results of these experiments as mistaken or even catastrophic. It's hard not to see what happened to Mars and Maldek (and possibly Earth) as a failure in the experiment, from our standpoint anyways.

Another examples:

There were many experiments whereby various of the functions or distortions of the body complex were veiled and others not. A large number of these experiments resulted in nonviable body complexes or those only marginally viable.

They can make mistakes. This is the essence of trying - experimenting.

[unity100]

Lucifer/Satan is the creation of semitic religions of middle east - it is rarely found in other belief systems. In semitic religions, it seems to symbolize certain flavor of 'dark' or 'negative'. Other than that, there doesnt seem to be any spiritual concept to which it seems to be applicable, leave aside the first logos.

[Infinite]

Lucifer/Satan is the creation of semitic religions of middle east - it is rarely found in other belief systems. In semitic religions, it seems to symbolize certain flavor of 'dark' or 'negative'. Other than that, there doesnt seem to be any spiritual concept to which it seems to be applicable, leave aside the first logos.

Second Ra, Lucifer is a Logos:

77.17 Questioner: Now, would it be possible for this work of our density to be performed if all of the sub-Logoi chose the same polarity in any particular expression or evolution of a Logos? Let us make the assumption that our sun created nothing but, through the first distortion, there was no product except positive polarity. Would work then be done in fourth density and higher as a function only of this positive polarization evolving from our original creation of sub-Logos?

Ra: I am Ra. Elements of this query illustrate the reason I was unable to answer your previous question without knowledge of the Logos involved. To turn to your question, there were Logoi which chose to set the plan for the activation of mind/body/spirit complexes through each true-color body without recourse to the prior application of free will. It is, to our knowledge, only in an absence of free will that the conditions of which you speak obtain. In such a procession of densities you find an extraordinarily long, as you measure time, third density; likewise, fourth density. Then, as the entities begin to see the Creator, there is a very rapid, as you measure time, procession towards the eighth density. This is due to the fact that one who knows not, cares not.

Let us illustrate by observing the relative harmony and unchanging quality of existence in one of your, as you call it, primitive tribes. The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment but also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.

Those Logoi whose creations have been set up without free will have not, in the feeling of those Logoi, given the Creator the quality and variety of experience of Itself as have those Logoi which have incorporated free will as paramount. Thusly you find those Logoi moving through the timeless states at what you would see as a later space/time to choose the free will character when elucidating the foundations of each Logos.

[Moonfox]

So, and I'm a newbie, and I haven't really studied much yet about negative polarity except to know that I am not of that inclination. I believe there is a hierarchy of concepts on our world. The primary focus of this plane, 3rd density, is the distortion of free will. In saying, all being that come here will experience the distortion of free will. We have free will because we are separated from all other beings by the veil of confusion, which is the notion we have of separation from eachother and the creator.

While I don't doubt the existance of Lucifer and their influence here, I am very skeptical of any information I receive about them due to the nature of the perceived relationship. I am distrustful immediately when I hear the name mentioned, personally.

My personal story is that I read a story on a forum and it was by an entity that claimed many many things. Some of those things resonated with me. Some of them were like a slime had tried to crawl in my brain. Whatever information is out there, my suggestion is to take it with a grain of salt and make your own decisions.

[loostudent]

As I know in the Bible "lucifer" was never used as a name. It was an uncapitalized latin word for "morning star" or "day star" (Venus) also meaning "light-bearer", "shining one", "shining star". The meaning is metaphoric. It can be negative or positive. It depends on the context.

Venus as seen from Earth is a "wandering star". It climbs to its shining place in heaven and then it descends back (see the image bellow). This can symbolize someone grand but full of pride who latter falls. Thus it was used to describe the Babilonian king/empire for example. We also know some proverbs that summarize this: "pride will have a fall" or "the higher you climb, the higher you fall". This is the negative meaning. Some time latter it also became the name (this time capitalized) for Satan because of his fall from heaven (fallen angel).  



There is also positive meaning of lucifer in the Bible - the light of Christ.

In Ra material Lucifer is used "in context" as the (sub)Logos that first incorporated the veil as an extension of free will.

[anagogy]

The path of the morning star (Venus)
(which some might find interesting):

[Infinite Unity]

From the standpoint of a Logos or sub-Logos, "mistake" probably isn't a valid concept, though we might certainly see some results of these experiments as mistaken or even catastrophic. It's hard not to see what happened to Mars and Maldek (and possibly Earth) as a failure in the experiment, from our standpoint anyways.

Another examples:

There were many experiments whereby various of the functions or distortions of the body complex were veiled and others not. A large number of these experiments resulted in nonviable body complexes or those only marginally viable.

They can make mistakes. This is the essence of trying - experimenting.

There is no standard of right and wrong, of mistake. When you are the only One. Practically all of understanding(knowledge) collapses when all is One. We are not talking about separate or individual pieces interacting with one another. This is Creator to Creator relationship.

The nature of experience, is naturally ingrained with experimenting. The very nature of Infinity of ourselves is what we are exploring. We are The Infinite Mystery.

The nature of Infinity, of The One is unknowable. It can only be experienced, you have to be the Creator. There is no knowing creator.

[loostudent]

There is no standard of right and wrong, of mistake. When you are the only One /.../

But there is the Original Thought. The original idea/intention/desire of the Creator. This is the standard. Otherwise there would be no progress for parts of Creator. They wouldn't try to be more sucessful in creating (refining) ...

https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...?tid=15951

[Infinite Unity]

There is no standard of right and wrong, of mistake. When you are the only One /.../

But there is the Original Thought. The original idea/intention/desire of the Creator. This is the standard. Otherwise there would be no progress for parts of Creator. They wouldn't try to be more sucessful in creating (refining) ...

https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...?tid=15951

That's the whole point brother. What progress? For becoming itself is an illusion. What are you becoming? By what standard are you defining scale, to contrast against and pull definition, if there is one? Who is there to say theres been progress? What then is progress? There is still only one original thought and One Original Thinker.

Weve made progress counting through Infinity? Carry On. All there is, is to be.

Now there is resemblances of progress. However in my opinion, and everything I write is my opinion. To me this progress is more clearly defined as unifying and bringing light to dark spaces of The One. To more clearly express the divine self, in all its infinite ways/parts. However there is ever only One, so to me that completely redifines how or what progress is. Thats basically all I am getting at.

In my previous post I do not believe in good or evil, right or wrong. These do not define my experience. I do believe there are more unity resonating configurations/choices, however this is entirely different then the concept of right and wrong. Its about how we define our experience and through this definition the light we shed reflects off of other selves, or parts of the Creator.

When right and wrong are allowed to collapse within your paradigm, the sight is far further. One is able to learn from any experience, and not corridor off certain aspects/experiences.

[unity100]

Lucifer/Satan is the creation of semitic religions of middle east - it is rarely found in other belief systems. In semitic religions, it seems to symbolize certain flavor of 'dark' or 'negative'. Other than that, there doesnt seem to be any spiritual concept to which it seems to be applicable, leave aside the first logos.

Second Ra, Lucifer is a Logos:

77.17 Questioner: Now, would it be possible for this work of our density to be performed if all of the sub-Logoi chose the same polarity in any particular expression or evolution of a Logos? Let us make the assumption that our sun created nothing but, through the first distortion, there was no product except positive polarity. Would work then be done in fourth density and higher as a function only of this positive polarization evolving from our original creation of sub-Logos?

Ra: I am Ra. Elements of this query illustrate the reason I was unable to answer your previous question without knowledge of the Logos involved. To turn to your question, there were Logoi which chose to set the plan for the activation of mind/body/spirit complexes through each true-color body without recourse to the prior application of free will. It is, to our knowledge, only in an absence of free will that the conditions of which you speak obtain. In such a procession of densities you find an extraordinarily long, as you measure time, third density; likewise, fourth density. Then, as the entities begin to see the Creator, there is a very rapid, as you measure time, procession towards the eighth density. This is due to the fact that one who knows not, cares not.

Let us illustrate by observing the relative harmony and unchanging quality of existence in one of your, as you call it, primitive tribes. The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment but also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.

Those Logoi whose creations have been set up without free will have not, in the feeling of those Logoi, given the Creator the quality and variety of experience of Itself as have those Logoi which have incorporated free will as paramount. Thusly you find those Logoi moving through the timeless states at what you would see as a later space/time to choose the free will character when elucidating the foundations of each Logos.

It doesnt say lucifer is a logos there. It uses a metaphor of Lucifer, aka evil as it is known in semitic traditions, and it says that such evil has brought the difference in between good and evil to the mbses of this logos.

[Infinite]

It doesnt say lucifer is a logos there. It uses a metaphor of Lucifer, aka evil as it is known in semitic traditions, and it says that such evil has brought the difference in between good and evil to the mbses of this logos.

I respect your opinion, but Ra never would use the word Logos as a metaphor. The answer was clear, the concept of good and evil precipited the entities of Lucifer (probably the Garden of Eden history has a grain of truth).

[ada]

84.19 ▶ Questioner: I didn’t mean to cover previously covered material. I was trying to work into a better understanding of what we’re talking about, with background of the veiling process, and what I was actually attempting to do was to discover something new in asking the question, so please if I ask any questions in the future that have already been covered don’t bother to repeat the material. I am just searching the same area for the possibility of greater enlightenment with respect to the particular area since it seems to be one of the major areas of experience in our present condition of veiling that produces a very large amount of catalyst and I am trying to understand, to use a poor term, how this veiling process created a greater experience and how this experience evolved, shall I say. The questions are very difficult at times to ask.

It occurs to me that many statues or drawings of the one known as Lucifer or the Devil is shown with an erection. Is this a function of this orange-ray blockage, and was this, shall we say, known by, in some minimal way, you might say, by those who devised these statues and drawings etc.?

Ra: I am Ra. There is, of course, much other distortion involved in a discussion of any mythic archetypical form. However, we may answer in the affirmative and note that you are perceptive.

77.17 ▶ Questioner: Now, would it be possible for this work of our density to be performed if all of the sub-Logoi chose the same polarity in any particular expression or evolution of a Logos? Let us make the assumption that our sun created nothing but, through the first distortion, there was no product except positive polarity. Would work then be done in fourth density and higher as a function only of this positive polarization evolving from our original creation of sub-Logos?

Ra: I am Ra. Elements of this query illustrate the reason I was unable to answer your previous question without knowledge of the Logos involved. To turn to your question, there were Logoi which chose to set the plan for the activation of mind/body/spirit complexes through each true-color body without recourse to the prior application of free will. It is, to our knowledge, only in an absence of free will that the conditions of which you speak obtain. In such a procession of densities you find an extraordinarily long, as you measure time, third density; likewise, fourth density. Then, as the entities begin to see the Creator, there is a very rapid, as you measure time, procession towards the eighth density. This is due to the fact that one who knows not, cares not.

Let us illustrate by observing the relative harmony and unchanging quality of existence in one of your, as you call it, primitive tribes. The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment but also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.

Those Logoi whose creations have been set up without free will have not, in the feeling of those Logoi, given the Creator the quality and variety of experience of Itself as have those Logoi which have incorporated free will as paramount. Thusly you find those Logoi moving through the timeless states at what you would see as a later space/time to choose the free will character when elucidating the foundations of each Logos.

[unity100]

It doesnt say lucifer is a logos there. It uses a metaphor of Lucifer, aka evil as it is known in semitic traditions, and it says that such evil has brought the difference in between good and evil to the mbses of this logos.

I respect your opinion, but Ra never would use the word Logos as a metaphor.

They didn't. 'this logos' refers to the creation of the current logos which we inhabit. It says that the concept of lucifer (ie evil-doing) has showed the difference in between the light and dark and therefore brought knowledge to this creation. of this logos.

This logos doesn't refer to lucifer, which doesnt exist. It refers to this logos (of this solar system, galaxy or this octave), which created those mind/body/spirits that are mentioned in the quote.

[Infinite]

They didn't. 'this logos' refers to the creation of the current logos which we inhabit.

Let us illustrate by observing the relative harmony and unchanging quality of existence in one of your, as you call it, primitive tribes. The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment but also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.

Ra never said that this fall happenned with this Logos. The Logos used the free will since the begin.

[kristina]

Hi. According every source that I researched  about this theme the information is the same. This Logos was the creator of the "experimentation system" duality and freewill. This it happended million of years ago. Lucifer tried create a new universe and become the Creator. He tried make this through a experiment. But it was a big failure and a lot of planets was destroyed. In contrast a lot of galaxies was created (big bang) and a new level of vibration and consciousness borned. The lower dimensions did not exist before this big cosmic event that known as "Lucifer's Rebillion". The experimentation of reality changed. The unity of the consciousness was divided, broken in two sides. This system was implemented in this planet thousands years ago (the fall of adamic race). So, I belive that STO/STS is the same duality and freewill choices. What's your opinion?

Peace, love and light.

Nope.

lol...that's your slow swagger speaking. Funny reply. Though very real

[kristina]

You all claim to be creator, but refuse to face base energies?

Define "you all"

[kristina]

A big part of negative polarization is the adept learning the fine art of sidestepping natural law (i.e. karma) by getting others to do their dirty work for them. This is why they go to such extraneous lengths to get others to enslave themselves by their own free will choices. They don't have to suffer the karmic backlash for it if another chooses it (i.e. it doesn't damage their polarity). They try to stay high enough on the totem pole to use their underlings as a sort of spiritual "meat shield".

Karma can be fooled like that?!? Isn't the whole karmic law based on one's intent? So the Logos/universe/karmic intelligence would clearly see the negative acts for what they are (instead of, 'oh, well I guess that entity didn't really do much he just allowed another otherself to choose to be enslaved for himself.')

Also, in order to get into a position in which one might begin to seriously polarize negatively, one has to commit heinous acts against other-selves. I can't really imagine getting to the higher levels of third density negative polarization without seriously damaging other entities psychologically or physically. (Although I may simply be naive in the methods used to attain negative polarization.)

But so that means that even if the extremely negative entity has mastered the art of skirting karmic law, it still has the myriad cosmic crimes against other selves to deal with, and few good acts or forgiveness to redeem such acts. So even with this idea of skirting karma, the highly adept negative entity still has a ton of karma accumulated along the way to where it is now.

What happens to that karma that is never paid off?

It accrues. Then a visit to the Bankrupsy Court is in line.