2018_1103 - Preincarnative Choices

[redchartreuse]

Q'uo (and many other channeled sources) often speak at long length about our "preincarnative choices" and all manner of various setups whereby something is "programmed" into our experience. Often times this appears to take the form of a tragedy. Other times a "happenstance" meeting or seeming coincidence that routes our lives back to the preincarnative intentions of our higher selves.

Yet for all this talk about the process, I don't recall ever learning exactly HOW the higher self goes about "programming" events... as in the actual mechanism(s) by which this occurs.

For example, say a person dies in a tragic car accident. Think of all the little things that have to happen just at the "right time" to come together to create the fatal accident. Including a number of actions taken by other people, who ostensibly have their own free will and preincarnative choices.

How is it that the higher self has the power/ability to bring all these things into manifestation? Are we actually inside some type of cosmic computer program? Or...?

[unity100]

Often times this appears to take the form of a tragedy

Not necessarily. It can take the form of anything, even including your changing hobby preferences.

How is it that the higher self has the power/ability to bring all these things into manifestation? Are we actually inside some type of cosmic computer program? Or...?

Not only higher self, think of higher resources. 7d smc totality is a resource to the 7d totality. 7d totality is a resource to the 6d higher self. 6d higher self is a resource to the 3d entity.

How higher self can plan these things is that at the point the higher self is, facing the entire picture of the totality that it was left to it by its future 7d being, it sees everything the collective entity that all its existences in this octave is. Everything, including parallel realities in which it incarnated, everything that is happening in those realities and every possibility that is there, are visible. On top of that, this existence integrates with the existence of rest of the universe. Higher self is looking at a grand picture at the point it is. It is an infinite sea of points in existence, and the 3d entity, and the higher self are surfers/sailors sailing in that sea.

Hence planning, programming, and changing plans based on conditions not only becomes easy, but also things also unfold themselves - changing nature and choices of an entity would naturally change the course which the entity is sailing towards, hence change the point it will go towards in the sea of existence.

[Louisabell]

In my experience, this is how it works - At the most deepest root of our mind, we are of the One Infinite Creator, like a hive mind we are cells that make up one body. If you think about it, most of our actions are semi-automatic as we have many subconscious urges to which we have no idea of their origin.

Perhaps for some unbeknownst reason you forgot your keys this morning, so you need to run back for them. Maybe in your rush you bump into someone. Maybe that annoyed them so much they called a friend when they wouldn't have otherwise. Maybe that friend was driving at the time of the call and was distracted enough to miss their turn off... etc etc. These slight actions play out to create scenarios.

The higher self, as it can move around in time, can map out all these things, then we are used as instruments and are none the wiser that we have been of service to the One.

It can even go so far as full messages being communicated from others unknowingly, as they have no idea of the profundity of what they say. I think this is the appeal of synchronicities and such things, like a subconscious acknowledgement that fate has just played its hand.

[redchartreuse]

Often times this appears to take the form of a tragedy

Not necessarily. It can take the form of anything, even including your changing hobby preferences.

How is it that the higher self has the power/ability to bring all these things into manifestation? Are we actually inside some type of cosmic computer program? Or...?

Not only higher self, think of higher resources. 7d smc totality is a resource to the 7d totality. 7d totality is a resource to the 6d higher self. 6d higher self is a resource to the 3d entity.

How higher self can plan these things is that at the point the higher self is, facing the entire picture of the totality that it was left to it by its future 7d being, it sees everything the collective entity that all its existences in this octave is. Everything, including parallel realities in which it incarnated, everything that is happening in those realities and every possibility that is there, are visible. On top of that, this existence integrates with the existence of rest of the universe. Higher self is looking at a grand picture at the point it is. It is an infinite sea of points in existence, and the 3d entity, and the higher self are surfers/sailors sailing in that sea.

Hence planning, programming, and changing plans based on conditions not only becomes easy, but also things also unfold themselves - changing nature and choices of an entity would naturally change the course which the entity is sailing towards, hence change the point it will go towards in the sea of existence.

Still struggling to understand the actual mechanism. I get that it might be way beyond us to understand this, but it hasn't stopped us from trying!

It's just one of those concepts that gets tossed around so much in spiritual circles, but only discussed superficially and without any real explanation as to the nuts and bolts (the how) of this "programming". I find myself wondering... to the soul.. is it akin to pulling up a code editor and making a couple changes?

And if it is so easy for the higher self to program all this, then how is it that it can also have such a difficult time succeeding in realizing the spiritual growth that it had hoped for during the incarnation?

As we have learned previously, our planet is home to entire populations that failed to graduate on their home planet for various reasons. On the one hand... the soul with its 7D resources seems so omnipotent. On the other hand, despite all these resources, all these souls have failed to create the outcomes they desired for their incarnations.

So the soul can program anything from a tragic car accident to a hobby change... but it can't stop its incarnations from destroying an entire planet??

Something is not jiving there for me...

[redchartreuse]

In my experience, this is how it works - At the most deepest root of our mind, we are of the One Infinite Creator, like a hive mind we are cells that make up one body. If you think about it, most of our actions are semi-automatic as we have many subconscious urges to which we have no idea of their origin.

Perhaps for some unbeknownst reason you forgot your keys this morning, so you need to run back for them. Maybe in your rush you bump into someone. Maybe that annoyed them so much they called a friend when they wouldn't have otherwise. Maybe that friend was driving at the time of the call and was distracted enough to miss their turn off... etc etc. These slight actions play out to create scenarios.

The higher self, as it can move around in time, can map out all these things, then we are used as instruments and are none the wiser that we have been of service to the One.

It can even go so far as full messages being communicated from others unknowingly, as they have no idea of the profundity of what they say. I think this is the appeal of synchronicities and such things, like a subconscious acknowledgement that fate has just played its hand.

So the soul can easily cause us to forget our keys, thus setting up a chain of events that lead us in a different direction.

But the soul cannot easily cause us to remember our purpose for incarnating? Or cause us to take the actions which would lead to the spiritual growth that it desired?

Very confused here... seems that for all the "preincarnative choices" that the soul has control over, it does not have control over the very thing it is taking incarnation for.

[Louisabell]

In my experience, this is how it works - At the most deepest root of our mind, we are of the One Infinite Creator, like a hive mind we are cells that make up one body. If you think about it, most of our actions are semi-automatic as we have many subconscious urges to which we have no idea of their origin.

Perhaps for some unbeknownst reason you forgot your keys this morning, so you need to run back for them. Maybe in your rush you bump into someone. Maybe that annoyed them so much they called a friend when they wouldn't have otherwise. Maybe that friend was driving at the time of the call and was distracted enough to miss their turn off... etc etc. These slight actions play out to create scenarios.

The higher self, as it can move around in time, can map out all these things, then we are used as instruments and are none the wiser that we have been of service to the One.

It can even go so far as full messages being communicated from others unknowingly, as they have no idea of the profundity of what they say. I think this is the appeal of synchronicities and such things, like a subconscious acknowledgement that fate has just played its hand.

So the soul can easily cause us to forget our keys, thus setting up a chain of events that lead us in a different direction.

But the soul cannot easily cause us to remember our purpose for incarnating?  Or cause us to take the actions which would lead to the spiritual growth that it desired?

Very confused here...  seems that for all the "preincarnative choices" that the soul has control over, it does not have control over the very thing it is taking incarnation for.

Well the higher self is not the soul. It is a separate entity to yourself. Technically it is yourself in the future, but it is still separate, perhaps better thought of as a powerful consciousness that is dedicated to your evolution. It can only assist in setting up the lessons, it cannot learn for you.

Freewill must always be observed, and if the human wishes to stay distracted and asleep, then that desire will be respected. Lessons will be lovingly repeated until the student has passed.

[flofrog]

Ra says that at one moment in the evolution in third density, once the entity has started to 'awake" after many incarnations, numbers depending on each unique entity, it will start to plan its own lessons or pieces of the puzzle. In that sense, the incarnation 'progresses' more even though there is no quality assessment to the progress made, as a seventh grade child is not any more than a second grade child, they just live a different phase. As Louisabell says, lessons will be lovingly repeated.

The soul doesn't really cause us to forget, the veil has been installed for faster progress, and on each incarnation the catalysts will appear until all are embraced. It seems we have no control once incarnating but we forget that at one point we plan it all. We may by choice, once incarnated, decide to not respond to a catalyst but it will come back as long as we do not answer it.

We may think during incarnation that there is no control nor 'right' direction but now as I am way older, I can see that certain events came back repeatedly until I embraced what was presented. In the same way I still meet today people with whom I have had an indirect link when I was younger. For example, I have been living in this country for like forty years but I met recently in this town where I live, a woman whose father worked for several years with my father, they were very close, but this new friend and myself never met at the time when we were in our twenties, and I met her here a few years ago via a book club seemingly after a complex set of weird hazards. In other words the chance that we should have met was nil but we did

I have a feeling that life for everyone is arranged in a very, very precious complex way, we just do not see it.

[Sacred Fool]

How is it that the higher self has the power/ability to bring all these things into manifestation?  Are we actually inside some type of cosmic computer program?  Or...?

All things already are in some degree of manifestation, the problem is that you see only a tiny fraction of this.  Why?

What the computer model misses is that what we're talking about--in terms of awakening, mechanisms thereto, etc.--is not accumulation of facts.  We're talking about consciousness.  The distinction between mere accumulation, and manipulation, of information and the developement of consciousness is that, as one progresses in consciousness, one's entire system of perception of facts , their hierarchical structure, meaning and such, becomes completely transformed at each major turn in the road.

Example: When the heart is fully entered into, one's entire relationship with self (past self, present self and future self) and with others (now seen as elements of self) is transformed.  The lower chakras become sacralized and one begins living, not with the survival (red) chakra as the psychological basis for self-identification, but with the heart as the basis for and primary locus of consciousness.  One's experience of consciousness is thus radically transformed and the importance of "information," such as you are inquiring about, shrinks markedly.

The key feature--the "heart"--of all this is that we are presented endless opportunities to become progressively more conscious.  More conscious of what?  Of what already is.  That which we are.

 

[redchartreuse]

Thanks, everyone, for your sharing your thoughts on this topic. However it seems that none of us have the answer to my query. Which is fine... seeing as how I am pretty sure the topic has not been addressed in the material. Always a chance that I missed or forgot something, though!

As it seems that souls have a great deal of power to influence events in the physical world, I remain very curious about the actual mechanism by which this occurs.

In addition, I am curious about the spiritual principles involved. In other words, in circumstances where a soul does not influence physical reality, is this always because they actually can't, or because they won't.

Will continue pondering...

[Sacred Fool]

Here are a couple of more thoughts.

First of all free will comes into play, so that outside forces will avoid doing your learning for you by breaking the spell of your illusion and ruining your context for learning.

Second, as an incarnate individual becomes mature to the point where he/she acts as a servant of the Creator, the interplay you are referring to becomes much more active.  In this case, the will is directed to be in alignment with divine agency and the above conflict is not such a strong factor.  In other words, by that means, the safety feature is switched off and much more influence from "above" is potentiated.

What kind of "mechanism" are you looking for?  Obviously, there is no physical one.

 

   

[redchartreuse]

First of all free will comes into play, so that outside forces will avoid doing your learning for you by breaking the spell of your illusion and ruining your context for learning.

Yes, I imagine that free will would be a paramount consideration. But I'm wondering more along the lines of if there are any other limitations to what can be "programmed" outside of that.

What kind of "mechanism" are you looking for?  Obviously, there is no physical one.

Hmm. Not so sure about that. Since the effects of the "programming" occur in the physical world, then there must be some mechanism by which the physical world can be influenced from outside.

For example- say a tree falls on a tent in a campground, killing one of the inhabitants while they are sleeping, and that this event was "programmed" into their life for whatever reason. Can the soul actually cause the tree to physically move, or for the wind to blow, or for lightning to strike knocking it down, etc...? Or is it more like the soul talks to the consciousness of the tree, wind, lightning, etc., and it agrees to help with the fulfillment of the plan?

Does that make more sense? I am seeking information regarding how the "programming" occurs.

In addition, I don't feel this information is quite as transitory as you might be suggesting. The whole idea of souls "programming" physical events into the lives of their incarnations is quite ubiquitous in spiritual circles, I think it's worth digging further to understand what, exactly, is meant when channeled sources refer to "programming" an incarnation.

[ada]

Feel like this may be relevant.

65.9 ▶ Questioner: We would seem to have dual catalysts operating, and the question is which one is going to act first. The prophecies, I will call them, made by Edgar Cayce indicated many Earth changes and I am wondering about the mechanics of describing what we call the future. Ra, it has been stated, is not a part of time and yet we concern ourselves with probability/possibility vortices. It is very difficult for me to understand how the mechanism of prophecy operates. What is the value of a prophecy such as Cayce made with respect to Earth changes with respect to all of these scenarios?

Ra: I am Ra. Consider the shopper entering the store to purchase food with which to furnish the table for the time period you call a week. Some stores have some items, others a variant set of offerings. We speak of these possibility/probability vortices when asked with the understanding that such are as a can, jar, or portion of goods in your store.

It is unknown to us as we scan your time/space whether your peoples will shop hither or yon. We can only name some of the items available for the choosing. The, shall we say, record which the one you call Edgar read from is useful in that same manner. There is less knowledge in this material of other possibility/probability vortices and more attention paid to the strongest vortex. We see the same vortex but also see many others. Edgar’s material could be likened unto one hundred boxes of your cold cereal, another vortex likened unto three, or six, or fifty of another product which is eaten by your peoples for breakfast. That you will breakfast is close to certain. The menu is your own choosing.

The value of prophecy must be realized to be only that of expressing possibilities. Moreover, it must be, in our humble opinion, carefully taken into consideration that any time/space viewing, whether by one of your time/space or by one such as we who view the time/space from a dimension, shall we say, exterior to it will have a quite difficult time expressing time measurement values. Thus prophecy given in specific terms is more interesting for the content or type of possibility predicted than for the space/time nexus of its supposed occurrence.

[Sacred Fool]

Hmmm. This seems to be falling together into a more coherent shape now. (What was the probability of that, he wondered aloud?)

Your question, rc, may be then, how are these possibility/probability vortices created and influenced? By creating and influencing them, the various elements such as personal will, karma, one's guides and helpers...plus randomness...all "talk to one another," "so to speak."

Hmmmm, maybe we're influencing one another right now in a like manner by creating and influencing vortices of thought?

[unity100]

And if it is so easy for the higher self to program all this, then how is it that it can also have such a difficult time succeeding in realizing the spiritual growth that it had hoped for during the incarnation?

The one not succeeding to realize the spiritual growth it hoped during the incarnation is not higher self. It is the incarnating past self.

The higher self evolves in its own environment.

And the incarnating self's failure to realize one goal or objective in an incarnation is not something that is a disaster or a game-breaking moment. All the parallel existences of the higher self in the past points in time are travelers traveling to the point where higher self is.

And as such, there is no failure or success per se in any particular incarnation. There are only route changes. All of the routes will eventually meet at the same point where the higher self is. And these routes depend on the preference of the incarnating past selves of the higher self. Its their preference to go from a certain route, or take another one.

As we have learned previously, our planet is home to entire populations that failed to graduate on their home planet for various reasons

Which was absolutely their own choice - of engaging in hostility against each other, for taking that route and exploring/enjoying/suffering the realities of that route of division and hatred and irresponsibility, ending up in the destruction of their own planet. It is the sum of the choices which they made during their incarnation, from a set of possible choices that were available at that point in space/time. They could have chosen differently. They chose this route.

the soul with its 7D resources seems so omnipotent. On the other hand, despite all these resources, all these souls have failed to create the outcomes they desired for their incarnations.

So the soul can program anything from a tragic car accident to a hobby change... but it can't stop its incarnations from destroying an entire planet??

The higher resources can provide/program, or help provide/program (for an advanced entity) anything that is within the reasonable possibility limit at that point in time/space. (and its accompanying space/time counterpart).

For example, in our world, in our current space/time point, the possibility of reaching a societal unison and cohesion which would attain the levels of cohesion and unison that would be possible only if we ceased hostilities and separation and become one people 200 years ago, still exists. But it is a so small, so tiny possibility that it is near impossible to realize. So no incarnation that is being planned for this time point can reasonably include that possibility in their general plan.

But there is an alternate world which is in unison, positive and peaceful in an alternate timeline, which had had made the choices leading to such a world back 500 years ago, leading to the world changing decisions of 200 years ago, which ended up with a positive and peaceful world by their date of 2018.

The you which is incarnating in this timeline is in this timeline and not the other, because either there is nothing you need from that timeline, or, there is already another part of your higher self which already incarnated into that timeline because it was more suitable to that timeline and you were more suitable this. And all this suitability difference is the product of the choices which all the parts of your future existence made in the pasts that belong to you all each.

[Patrick]

...It's just one of those concepts that gets tossed around so much in spiritual circles, but only discussed superficially and without any real explanation as to the nuts and bolts (the how) of this "programming"...

It is true and maybe it is because this density is not of knowing.  It seems that to admit we do not understand is actually a requirement for graduation.  But I too, as a computer programmer, find it interesting to explore "the how".

I often ponder on the nature and mechanisms of the concept of "collective reality" for instance.
 

[xise]

...It's just one of those concepts that gets tossed around so much in spiritual circles, but only discussed superficially and without any real explanation as to the nuts and bolts (the how) of this "programming"...

It is true and maybe it is because this density is not of knowing.  It seems that to admit we do not understand is actually a requirement for graduation.  But I too, as a computer programmer, find it interesting to explore "the how".

I often ponder on the nature and mechanisms of the concept of "collective reality" for instance.
 

I think it's important to *understand* the paradoxical nature of seeking in 3D. To admit we do not understand is totally necessary because full understanding is not possible in 3D, yet paradoxically seeking understanding is a key aspect of the positive path even in 3D. It's possible that Ra uses the word understanding in broad and specific senses, but I think most people underrate how important attempting to understand and actual partial understanding is to seeking in 3D and beyond:

"Understanding" is used innumerable times in Ra Q&A, and is used many times in 3D specific Q&A. Here's just a few choice ones:

18.5 ▶ Questioner: Thank you. I have a question here from Jim that I will read verbatim: “Much of the mystic tradition of seeking on Earth holds that belief that the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world ignored for an entity to reach ‘nirvana,’ as it’s called, or enlightenment. What is the proper role of the individual self and its worldly activities in aiding an entity to grow more into the Law of One?”

Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.

The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum. Overcoming thus creates the further environment for holding onto that which apparently has been overcome.

All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate description shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.

It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.
57.24 ▶ Questioner: By saying that the Queen’s Chamber was the initiatory place, could you tell me what you mean by that?
Ra: I am Ra. This question is a large one. We cannot describe initiation in its specific sense due to our distortion towards the belief/understanding that the process which we offered so many of your years ago was not a balanced one.

However, you are aware of the concept of initiation and realize that it demands the centering of the being upon the seeking of the Creator. We have hoped to balance this understanding by enunciating the Law of One, that is, that all things are One Creator. Thus seeking the Creator is done not just in meditation and the work of an adept but in the experiential nexus of each moment.

The initiation of [the] Queen’s Chamber has to do with the abandoning of self to such desire to know the Creator in full that the purified instreaming light is drawn in balanced fashion through all energy centers, meeting in indigo and opening the gate to intelligent infinity. Thus the entity experiences true life or, as your people call it, resurrection.


1.10 ▶ Questioner: Another question. Is it possible to create any acceleration of understanding [in] other entities [or are] all efforts… efforts by the individual on himself accelerating his understanding? In other words, if an individual tries to act as a catalyst in general to increase the awareness of planetary consciousness, is he doing nothing but acting upon himself or is it possible [inaudible]?

Ra: I am Ra. We shall answer your question in two parts, both of which are important equally.

Firstly, you must understand that the distinction between yourself and others is not visible to us. We do not consider that a separation exists between the consciousness-raising efforts of the distortion which you project as a personality and the distortion which you project as an other personality. Thus, to learn is the same as to teach unless you are not teaching what you are learning; in which case you have done you/they little or no good. This understanding should be pondered by your mind/body/spirit complex as it is a distortion which plays a part in your experiences at this nexus.

To turn to the second part of our response may we state our understanding, limited though it is.

[Side two of the tape of session 1 was taped over by the Sunday night meditation which followed it. The following is as published in Book I.]

Group-individuated consciousness is that state of sharing understanding with the other distortions of mind/body/spirit complexes, which are within the evident reach of the mind/body/spirit complex individual or group. Thus, we are speaking to you and accepting both our distortions and your own in order to enunciate the laws of creation, more especially the Law of One. We are not available to many of your peoples, for this is not an easily understood way of communication or type of philosophy. However, our very being is hopefully a poignant example of both the necessity and the near-hopelessness of attempting to teach.

Each of those in this group is striving to use, digest, and diversify the information which we are sending this instrument into the channels of the mind/body/spirit complex without distortion. The few whom you will illuminate by sharing your light are far more than enough reason for the greatest possible effort. To serve one is to serve all. Therefore, we offer the question back to you to state that indeed it is the only activity worth doing: to learn/teach or teach/learn. There is nothing else which is of aid in demonstrating the original thought except your very being, and the distortions that come from the unexplained, inarticulate, or mystery-clad being are many. Thus, to attempt to discern and weave your way through as many group mind/body/spirit distortions as possible among your peoples in the course of your teaching is a very good effort to make. We can speak no more valiantly of your desire to serve.

May we speak in any other capacity upon this subject?


15.14 ▶ Questioner: Yesterday you stated “the harvest is now. There is not at this time any reason to include efforts upon these distortions toward longevity, but rather to encourage distortions towards the heart of self. For this which resides clearly in the violet-ray energy field will determine the harvest of each mind/body/spirit complex.” Could you tell us how to seek or the best way to seek the heart of self?

Ra: I am Ra. We have given you this information in several wordings. However, we can only say the material for your understanding is the self: the mind/body/spirit complex. You have been given information upon healing, as you call this distortion. This information may be seen in a more general context as ways to understand the self. The understanding, experiencing, accepting, and merging of self with self and with other-self, and finally with the Creator, is the path to the heart of self. In each infinitesimal part of your self resides the One in all of Its power. Therefore, we can only encourage these lines of contemplation, always stating the prerequisite of meditation, contemplation, or prayer as a means of subjectively/objectively using or combining various understandings to enhance the seeking process. Without such a method of reversing the analytical process, one could not integrate into unity the many understandings gained in such seeking.

[redchartreuse]

And if it is so easy for the higher self to program all this, then how is it that it can also have such a difficult time succeeding in realizing the spiritual growth that it had hoped for during the incarnation?

The one not succeeding to realize the spiritual growth it hoped during the incarnation is not higher self. It is the incarnating past self.

The higher self evolves in its own environment.

Right- I seem to have been somewhat conflating the soul with higher self.   In the 6D environment of the higher self, all possible paths back are seen as equal in the final analysis, since all the energy it has put out into varied incarnations will return to itself by one path or another.  And perhaps even maintaining all possible paths as a possibility, however remote, is part of the task that the higher self must accomplish to evolve. I imagine some learning might occur through the observation of which paths yielded the most returns.

[unity100]

I often ponder on the nature and mechanisms of the concept of "collective reality" for instance.

That's a big topic with a lot of different theories.

https://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/...erception/

[Patrick]

...It's just one of those concepts that gets tossed around so much in spiritual circles, but only discussed superficially and without any real explanation as to the nuts and bolts (the how) of this "programming"...

It is true and maybe it is because this density is not of knowing.  It seems that to admit we do not understand is actually a requirement for graduation.  But I too, as a computer programmer, find it interesting to explore "the how".

I often ponder on the nature and mechanisms of the concept of "collective reality" for instance.
 

I think it's important to *understand* the paradoxical nature of seeking in 3D. To admit we do not understand is totally necessary because full understanding is not possible in 3D, yet paradoxically seeking understanding is a key aspect of the positive path even in 3D. It's possible that Ra uses the word understanding in broad and specific senses, but I think most people underrate how important attempting to understand and actual partial understanding is to seeking in 3D and beyond:

"Understanding" is used innumerable times in Ra Q&A, and is used many times in 3D specific Q&A. Here's just a few choice ones:
...

Yes I believe I understand what you mean.

I was mostly referring to understanding "the how".  Understanding "the how" seems to be what is not of this density.  Understanding "the why" seems to be very à propos for 3d because it's all basically on faith alone.  Anyway, that is my understanding.  Yet I understand well the appeal in trying to understand "the how", because it really is interesting in itself.

(all pun should be understood to be intended)

[Agua]

removed

[redchartreuse]

Did that answer your questions or did i misunderstand your question?

Hi Agua,

Well, you responded thoughtfully to some examples I was trying to use to further explain the question! But not quite the question itself.

Perhaps instead of the "mechanism" of programming, asking about the "process" of programming may be more fruitful.

I did a search of L/L for "programming" and came across this session which appears to go into the process in more detail:

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0329.aspx

I will read through it more thoroughly and see if I can find the answers I seek there.

But until then, yes, I think you alluded to it somewhat. The idea is that the soul is in direct communication with the subconscious, which in turn can influence the conscious mind to take a particular action in accordance with the preincarnative choices.

[Agua]

removed

[Sacred Fool]

The idea is that the soul is in direct communication with the subconscious, which in turn can influence the conscious mind to take a particular action in accordance with the preincarnative choices.

Request for clarification: When you use the term "pre-incarnative choices," do you intend this to refer to choices your conscious mind would make in during your incarnation which were already decided before you incarnated?  Or are you referring to things such as birth place, parents, talents, interests, etc.?

If it's the former, then you may be a bit confused.  As I read it, the idea is for the conscious self to have complete freedom of choice within the incarnation.  The soul does not somehow coax the conscious mind to take this or that action.  Is this what you are talking about, rc?  Maybe?

 

[redchartreuse]

Thanks, everyone, for your persistence.  As you may have surmised by now, the confusion I have been experiencing on this topic is thick, and its roots are apparently deep in my mind.  I do intend to rectify the situation, and appreciate the assistance.

I read that other session in more detail, and it was very helpful.  However, once again didn't quite hit the nail on the head for me.

peregrine- I think you are on the right track challenging my conception of "preincarnative choices" and it is well to visit this in more detail, as the question of "what" is programmed is more fundamental to "how" it is programmed.

Looking back at my OP, I see right off the bat one source of the confusion where I mention Q'uo along with other channeled sources.  I appear to have been conflating what Q'uo has said on the topic with what other sources have said, and these ideas are not all in alignment.

Reading through the other session, I am reminded that the image given by Q'uo is like a traveler packing their bags for a trip.  They are going to bring this and that.  Perhaps they make a tentative plan to meet up with another traveler on the way.  But the soul does not know before it embarks whether it will actually use those qualities, or whether it will cross paths with the other traveler on the road or not.  Perhaps even- something the soul packed that it thought would be very helpful turned out not to be needed, or even a burden to the incarnating personality.  Who knows?

In this sense, I can see why the question of "how" becomes more trivial... as none of these preincarnative choices are actually affecting physicality; causing objects to move around and people to make seemingly conscious choices that are actually scripted.

This idea makes sense to me.

However, it has become all jumbled up in my mind with similar ideas from the "new age" community at large, and various other channeled sources.   Typically, these are the result of somebody having written asking why such-and such tragic thing happened to them, or somebody they know, and the source sort of blithely responds that this was "all part of the plan" and suggests the seeker accept the so-called "truth" of this.

This idea does not make sense to me.  As it seems to be suggesting that all manner of tragedies and suffering- including violence done to the body- is actually what the soul intended to happen.  Which further suggests we shouldn't attempt to avoid or reduce such suffering, because then we would be denying the very thing we came for.   Something about this idea sits very wrong with me.

And hence my inner conflict.

Now- assuming I am now understanding Q'uo more clearly- generally speaking tragedy and suffering would never be "programmed" into an incarnation by a soul.  The soul is the loving parent packing their little one a bag, and hoping upon hope, that they chose the right things to help their little one have a safe and joyful trip.  Then the soul patiently waits with open and loving arms for its child to return and tell it all about the journey.

Souls do not generally program tragedies into the lives of their incarnations.  At most- an apparently tragic situation may present itself due to the incarnated personality's repeated failure to process a certain catalysts.  But even in these cases, the catalyst would have been presented so many times before, in so many more subtle ways, and perhaps it is sort of a "last ditch effort" to get a wayward personality back in alignment with its spiritual purpose. similar to how loving family members may stage an intervention on somebody nearly lost to addiction.

I think I can sense the fog beginning to lift here... but would appreciate any further comments on what I have written here.  I want to make sure I have the correct idea in my mind.

For some reason as yet unapparent to me, I am still hung on the word "program".  Perhaps what I would be seeking in that regard is akin to what G did toward the end of that session, when they flat out asked  Q'uo what they mean when they use the word "power".

[Agua]

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[Cainite]

I have wondered that too and don't expect any answer that doesn't raise more questions itself for the veiled mind.

There are ''probable/possible futures'' the way I understand it. lots of accidents too.. man's freewill is prior to the other factors that determine what happens. yet the creation/creator is intelligent and infinite with possibilities.

Mystery of the creator.. I guess.

[redchartreuse]

Pain, suffering,and all those things are surely planned beforehand!

What makes you so sure of this?

[redchartreuse]

And the incarnating self's failure to realize one goal or objective in an incarnation is not something that is a disaster or a game-breaking moment.

No, but it seems at best a severe quandry or very difficult puzzle that did not appear to be reasonably anticipated and so has dragged in a lot of energies (both internal and external to the system) that perhaps didn't "sign up" to be affected by detonation of nuclear weapons and/or total planetary annihilation.

We know the first distortion is that of free will and that spiritually evolved beings seek to preserve this at all costs. Therefore, we can reasonably conclude that, since the violent destruction of planets involved so much violation of free will, that this was not the intention of the creators of this particular game.

Which was absolutely their own choice - of engaging in hostility against each other, for taking that route and exploring/enjoying/suffering the realities of that route of division and hatred and irresponsibility, ending up in the destruction of their own planet. It is the sum of the choices which they made during their incarnation, from a set of possible choices that were available at that point in space/time. They could have chosen differently. They chose this route.

So, to be clear, you would agree that the souls undergoing these incarnations definitely did not plan for their incarnations to engage in such degrees of hostility toward one another, and is not what they would have chosen for them, had the choice been entirely their own?

I want to make sure I am understanding your assertion correctly.

[flofrog]

The idea is that the soul is in direct communication with the subconscious, which in turn can influence the conscious mind to take a particular action in accordance with the preincarnative choices.

Request for clarification: When you use the term "pre-incarnative choices," do you intend this to refer to choices your conscious mind would make in during your incarnation which were already decided before you incarnated?  Or are you referring to things such as birth place, parents, talents, interests, etc.?

If it's the former, then you may be a bit confused.  As I read it, the idea is for the conscious self to have complete freedom of choice within the incarnation.  The soul does not somehow coax the conscious mind to take this or that action.  Is this what you are talking about, rc?  Maybe?

 

Peregrine. I have a small question on this.

Would you agree that at some point the entity starts planning the incarnation with the lessons it desires to learn , and them once plunged into 3D it has of course complete free will, but meeting the different catalysts planned and so making the free choice each time to embrace or not and then such or such catalyst coming back during incarnation so lessons desired are always offered ?

[Agua]

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