Why would the Creator elect to create suffering for ITself?

[3D Sunset]

I'm interested in hearing what you think. I'm just basing my opinion on the fact that Ra said "guardians" one time and "Yahweh" another when describing what seems to be the same action. Why do you disagree?

Hi βαθμιαίος,

I am sorry if I was terse, I did not mean to be defensive, but I also do not want to speak for my own sake. I tire sometimes of the nature of these discussions and the tendency by some to dismiss entire trains of thought based upon a philosophical issue with a small piece of it. Please forgive my reaction and misinterpretation of your reply.

I think in this case, they are one and the same, and that both are the extra Octave Guardian, whom we came to refer to as "Yah-weh" because he was associated with the creation of our form. (As an aside, it is interesting to note - for those who haven't considered it - the striking similarity between Ra's description of Yah-weh's actions "Some of these genetic changes were in a form similar to what you call the cloning process. Thus, entities incarnated in the image of the Yahweh" and that of God in the old Testament who "created man in his own image".

I have often pondered the ambiguity of the name "Yahweh" in the Ra material. He seems to refer at different times to the Guardian, to a member of the Confederation, and to a negative entity that was channeled in Yahweh's name. We could have a long discussion about which Yahweh is which, but I simply ask that we accept, for sake of this argument, that Ra is referring to the Guardian when he refers to the first genetic mutations that were performed when the Martians were transferred to Earth. Although it is somewhat ambiguous, I do not find it much of a stretch.

Interesting line of inquiry, 3D. What elements do you think the quarantine was intended to isolate from the rest of creation?

I really don't know that that it was. I was just pointing out something that I found both interesting and compelling. Ra indicates at one point that the changes included the size of the brain, the shape of jaw, and the dexterity of the hands. Elsewhere he talks about the sharpening of the senses and the strengthening of the mind to better analyze the experiences of the senses. More likely than anything, I think that the other Guardians concerns about the amount of manipulation probably enforced the need for a bidirectional (so to speak) quarantine.

Carla has stated several times that her (and Don's, I think) view of the manipulation was that it created an innate drive to empire build and segregate peoples based upon their apparent differences. A recent Q'uo quote also associates these changes with an over abundance of the masculine principle throughout our species. (Note: That is masculine principle that is inherent in both genders, as is the feminine principle). It is this over abundance of masculine and dearth of feminine principle that prevents any of our civilizations from surviving long term. We have the strength to build great things, but not the love to create a society that thrives extensively.

Maybe we have some basic knowledge that is fundamentally accepted as true, that is only speculation or esoteric philosophy for 'outside' entities?

Here is an interesting quote that builds on the concept of the genetic change and things that transcend our Octave:

Questioner: I assume that the reason that the rituals that have been used previously are of effect is that these words have built a bias in consciousness of those who have worked in these areas so that those who are of a distortion of mind that we seek will respond to imprint in consciousness of this series of words. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is, to a great extent, correct. The exception is the sounding of some of what you call your Hebrew and some of what you call you Sanskrit vowels. These sound vibration complexes have power before time and space and represent configurations of light which built all that there is.

Questioner: Why do these sounds have this property?

Ra: I am Ra. The correspondence in vibratory complex is mathematical.

Questioner: How did the users of these sounds, Sanskrit and Hebrew, determine what these sounds were?

Ra: I am Ra. In the case of the Hebrew that entity known as Yahweh aided this knowledge through impression upon the material of genetic coding which became language, as you call it.

In the case of Sanskrit the sound vibrations are pure due to the lack of previous, what you call, alphabet or letter-naming. Thus the sound vibration complexes seemed to fall into place as from the Logos. This was a more, shall we say, natural or unaided situation or process.

So, is it possible that we have been provided a more direct access to Intelligent Energy through this imprinting? And if so, how have we used this gift?

Or is the quarantine you were thinking of more in line with physical containment (the 'containment' being our short life-spans and thus inability to travel far in such a large creation?)

Here again, I really have no idea, or if I'm even chasing a dead end. I don't think that our life-spans are a related phenomenon, though. We know that our natural life spans would be much longer, and science fiction has already postulated means for distant travel through suspended animation. If the quarantine is a containment vessel at all (and I haven't said that it is necessarily), then I suspect that it acts simply by limiting access to our foreign structures.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[Lavazza]

Hey Unity, I'm not so sure about these last points. The logic employed here is just that- and I wouldn't be surprised if logic, especially as employed in third density, is not a logical (pun intended) way to proceed on these matters. I paint myself in a corner by offering this thought as, being in third density also, I cannot hope to make a countering point to your theory and find it more valid.

logic is logic wherever it is. however if you mean the complex concept as a whole, it may depend.

Hey Unity,

I believe you missed the full meaning of what I said here. I did not mean to put emphasis on logic per se, but on logic as it is employed from a limited view point, which is of course, the view point we enjoy here in third density. You may well be completely correct in your logical deductions, but it would surprise me greatly. Not to imply that I have a better way to go about this business, because I don't. Nor do I suggest we stop. I just think it's worthwhile to step back a bit and recognize that we really can't speak absolutely to the mystery that is the Creation. Do you agree?

L&L, ~L

[unity100]

at the VERY base of thought process, logic is not something that has 'perspective'. logic is not something that is limited to 3rd density, neither mind.

like, 'everything is united/one, hence, we are all united/one', is not something that depends with perspective. because its too basic. or, the concept of infinity. for something to be infinite, it has to be infinite in all respects. it cannot be limited in its whole, and be infinite at the same time. or action <=> reaction. cause <=> effect.

[Crimson]

At the seventh level or dimension, we shall, if our humble efforts are sufficient, become one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all.

the octave entities merge with infinite intelligence, yet, they keep their nature, characteristics, biases that they will carry with themselves to the next octave.

Your statement and Ra's are mutually contradictory.

they arent. being one with 'all' doesnt mean 'single'. moreover, 'identity', 'past', 'future', are things that are specific to octaves. at the end of an octave, anything that is specific and defining regarding the multipleness experience of an octave would be left behind. ie - which planet have you evolved on. which galaxy you evolved in. what was the path you followed. did you have a name in 3d. what specie were you. what was the name (if there ever was a name) of your society complex. basically, anything regarding interactions of multiple-entities created by the multiple entities, would be left behind. "social" things in a sense, if you will. however, the characteristics of the spirit, the very differentiation in the nature of those elements, would be discovered, manifested, and carried to another octave.
these are the things we are discovering. this is what the discovery of multiple beingness, the 'creator will know itself' etc, are about.

Here's a twist: Although I agree it may appear unity 100's statement seem to be mutually contradictory, in this case, and I dare not speak for him, I wonder if it is being suggested, as opined in my thread on "Is The Game Rigged" on post # 13, with respect to the same exact Ra quote above, where I shared: "All simply melts into the ONE, that we (as illusory identities in distortion in fact) never left to begin with. "IT" presumably remembers everything Infinitely, while we, to the point, which never were, melt into "IT" loosing our identities and individual memories once again, but that "IT" nonetheless retains. "IT" remembers. We forget. We never were anything other than "IT's" parts subdivided, now (once again) joined whole."

If unity 100's native tongue in this instance, as regards pronouns specifically, is not English, then as before I understand from personal experience the torturous difficulty of expression in a said different tongue. I asked him before and would in kindness ask again if English is his first language, this wholly separate and apart from seeming contradictory statements and interpretations to the LOO.

unity 100 says, "the octave entities merge with infinite intelligence, yet, they keep their nature, characteristics, biases that they will carry with themselves to the next octave."

The language is indeed contradictory given that the pronouns "they" and "their" and "themselves" are personality identifiers, which Ra very clearly states melt fully into the "IT." They keep nothing of Theirs. "IT" keeps everything of "All" which was and is "ALL" / "IT's in any event as us to begin with.

Our identities, and as such memories contained therein, were in fact IT's memories. As we, part and parcel of the illusion and distortion, melt and are reabsorbed back into "IT", we loose ourselves and those identities.

If unity meant to express anything similar to this, but struggled as a result of not being English (my presumption), then he may have been partly on target. If he is English, then indeed the statement is mutually contradictory once again to Ra.

And here I part again with unity 100, as total clarification to all of the above, stated more elegantly and simple, which is wholly different from linguistics or syntax, and pertains only to definition and understanding: "IT" as "The One Infinite Creator" being "Infinity Aware" and as such "Intelligent Infinity", which are ALL ONE as "INFINITY", does not loose the memory of IT's memories whose IT was to begin with, and for which IT did all this to learn of IT-self more.

~ Q ~

The contradiction seems to occur at a superficial level, not if you analyze the context at a deeper level. Those characteristics, biases, etc, are absorbed by the Creator at the unification of the octave, or at the graduation process of 7d entities --does not really matter at this point of the discussion-- possibly beginning or forming the base for a new one. In this case, there is no contradiction because it depends on the context given (or taken).

Assuming one does not give a correct interpretation because the language is not native, is illogical (after so many deep discussions have been made by unity100, . besides of being demeaning, based on elitist models and a very frequent technique used by trolls --I'm just saying ). Interpretations at this level of metaphysics are dependent upon the awareness/consciousness level acquired.

That you are struggling expressing yourself in a non-native tongue (for you) does not mean everybody must have the same experience. I am disappointed