Why would the Creator elect to create suffering for ITself?

[CircleofOne]

It's a crude analogy, but to me that would be like exploding a grenade, then taking each piece of shrapnel and putting it back together to find that each piece is now its own grenade?

[Quantum]

we cannot resume an 'academic' exchange with you. i have been waiting for your response to recent posts...

As for posts you suggest several times here that you've put to me that were left unanswered? My great apologies if I've ever left even one unanswered. It seems like it has been me that has repeatedly openly invited you to answer? Ive read many times that you refuse to post to me (other than these personal posts it seems). Please re-direct me to any unanswered post and I would be more than happy to respond.

... i cant think that you havent been able to understand that clearly. i cant imagine how you can confuse what i said, with what you understood above. you either skimmed, and misread it, again, or you are again deliberately 'not understanding' something you dont desire to understand.

To which I say: Huh?????? It really does go circular in dizzying form and fashion.

If you have posts directed towards me unanswered (which you just claimed you did above), which you then further claim went unanswered, I once again apologize and will be happy to answer. As with the LOO and Ra quotes that are requested, please be as kind to provide these as well and I promise to answer.

Here is what we mustn't do anymore: Although I have attempted, as a means of responding and remaining open, even against my own rules, I will not engage in personal messages any longer which are being served openly on the forum, while better left to private PM's instead. You may consider instead to write me there (PM's) as regards your views of me, whereas write me here as regards your views on the LOO.

If you do not wish to respond at all, then feel free in peace and light to cease altogether, while also allowing me to question your threads and posts unchallenged or responded to by you when they seemingly conflict with the LOO. I am infinitely OK with either choice.

I ask again, as seen below, increasingly questioning more each time that you do not respond, this presumably as a result that you can't:

I leave my question open as to your last post as regards the concept of Multiple One Infinite Co-Creators? It is as interesting a concept and as unique as have been many of your others, for which I would ask the same, "sticking to the book of course," where in the LOO might you have arrived at this? Given this is a forum to further our understanding of the LOO, can you, would you, provide evidence of a single quote we might review?

Peace my friend, and feel free to redirect me to those unanswered posts I apologize for not answering. I'm sure I would be more than happy to.

Love and Light...

~ Q ~

[unity100]

i very much think that they do. because, for they to come into being in any given octave, they (or whatever causing them to exist) had to exist before the octave in the first place.

This is intriguing but it conflicts with my understanding of Ra's description of the merging back into the Creator. ("At the seventh level or dimension, we shall, if our humble efforts are sufficient, become one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all.") Do you feel that this idea is supported by the Ra material?

two facets of the coin. just like positive/negative, mover/moved, and so on. the octave entities merge with infinite intelligence, yet, they keep their nature, characteristics, biases that they will carry with themselves to the next octave. in short, these can be considered like 'characteristics' within an entity. and, the entity is discovering itself. had there been nothing to discover there would be no discovery.

..........

i have no intention of corresponding with you through any means, since i dont see the slightest change in your approach to the concept of discussion. im not interested in 'sports'. have a nice day.

---

It's a crude analogy, but to me that would be like exploding a grenade, then taking each piece of shrapnel and putting it back together to find that each piece is now its own grenade?

if, you would like to see how each piece was. this is a crude analogy, but may have parallels. of course, there would need to be infinite pieces in the grenade in order for it to happen infinite times, through infinite octaves.

[βαθμιαίος]

At the seventh level or dimension, we shall, if our humble efforts are sufficient, become one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all.

the octave entities merge with infinite intelligence, yet, they keep their nature, characteristics, biases that they will carry with themselves to the next octave.

Your statement and Ra's are mutually contradictory.

[CircleofOne]

I'd like to bring up a question about the concept of the octave that I've never seen addressed. Ra spoke of their knowledge in assuming that there were infinite octaves, but never clarified if this was horizontal or vertical in concept. Vertical being like a giant, infinite piano with a presumably infinite (unattainable?) progression upwards towards Oneness. Horizontal being the concept of infinite parallel creations. Or some other explanation that I haven't guessed.

An infinite horizontal series of octaves makes sense to me in some ways, because my concept of Infinity means that every single variable must be fully explored. The old tv show Sliders seems to be borne into this idea. If it were infinite vertically, it would seem that either Oneness could never be reached, or an entity would simply reach a point where further experience, while always totally unique, would no longer be desirable for that particular being, and Oneness would be achieved at the next possible point (maybe an octave version of Harvest?)

I really don't know, can someone shed the light of their own thoughts on this? If requested I'll move this to a new thread.

[Lavazza]

At the seventh level or dimension, we shall, if our humble efforts are sufficient, become one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all.

the octave entities merge with infinite intelligence, yet, they keep their nature, characteristics, biases that they will carry with themselves to the next octave.

Your statement and Ra's are mutually contradictory.

Thanks for following this conversation βαθμιαίος, and offering these comparisons. I find it quite helpful when trying to muddle through all of the dialog here.

~L

[Ali Quadir]

I'd like to bring up a question about the concept of the octave that I've never seen addressed. Ra spoke of their knowledge in assuming that there were infinite octaves, but never clarified if this was horizontal or vertical in concept. Vertical being like a giant, infinite piano with a presumably infinite (unattainable?) progression upwards towards Oneness. Horizontal being the concept of infinite parallel creations. Or some other explanation that I haven't guessed.

That's actually a very good question.. Horizontal octaves would fit wonderfully with the concept of possibility. Parallel worlds. That would really be another interesting analogy between the Law of One and physics.

I'd like to buy a ticket to board your train of thought..

[Etude in B Minor]

I don't think there is any "progression upwards towards Oneness". Everything is already one. That's the Law of One. The infinite octaves are a means for the Creator to "know itself".

[CircleofOne]

I agree that all is already one, what I meant by "progression upwards towards Oneness" was ascension through the octave(s) and reintegration into total awareness of Oneness, or a continual lessening of the illusion of separation. Without some kind of momentum in the movement through densities, it seems to me like an entity would be eternally stuck within the illusion of separation. If they were in 3rd density, they would maybe eternally incarnate and experience an infinite number of 3d lives, with polarity perhaps swinging back and forth over the eons, but they would presumably never come closer to actually "knowing itself". Perhaps the octave then can be thought of as walking down a long hall with a series of curtains. Each curtain may have a beautiful pattern woven into it that can be studied, but as one curtain is pulled back, a little more of the true "know thyself" experiment comes to fruition.

[unity100]

At the seventh level or dimension, we shall, if our humble efforts are sufficient, become one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all.

the octave entities merge with infinite intelligence, yet, they keep their nature, characteristics, biases that they will carry with themselves to the next octave.

Your statement and Ra's are mutually contradictory.

they arent.

being one with 'all' doesnt mean 'single'. moreover, 'identity', 'past', 'future', are things that are specific to octaves. at the end of an octave, anything that is specific and defining regarding the multipleness experience of an octave would be left behind.

ie - which planet have you evolved on. which galaxy you evolved in. what was the path you followed. did you have a name in 3d. what specie were you. what was the name (if there ever was a name) of your society complex.

basically, anything regarding interactions of multiple-entities created by the multiple entities, would be left behind. "social" things in a sense, if you will.

however, the characteristics of the spirit, the very differentiation in the nature of those elements, would be discovered, manifested, and carried to another octave.

these are the things we are discovering. this is what the discovery of multiple beingness, the 'creator will know itself' etc, are about.

[Quantum]

At the seventh level or dimension, we shall, if our humble efforts are sufficient, become one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all.

the octave entities merge with infinite intelligence, yet, they keep their nature, characteristics, biases that they will carry with themselves to the next octave.

Your statement and Ra's are mutually contradictory.

they arent. being one with 'all' doesnt mean 'single'. moreover, 'identity', 'past', 'future', are things that are specific to octaves. at the end of an octave, anything that is specific and defining regarding the multipleness experience of an octave would be left behind. ie - which planet have you evolved on. which galaxy you evolved in. what was the path you followed. did you have a name in 3d. what specie were you. what was the name (if there ever was a name) of your society complex. basically, anything regarding interactions of multiple-entities created by the multiple entities, would be left behind. "social" things in a sense, if you will. however, the characteristics of the spirit, the very differentiation in the nature of those elements, would be discovered, manifested, and carried to another octave.
these are the things we are discovering. this is what the discovery of multiple beingness, the 'creator will know itself' etc, are about.

Here's a twist: Although I agree it may appear unity 100's statement seem to be mutually contradictory, in this case, and I dare not speak for him, I wonder if it is being suggested, as opined in my thread on "Is The Game Rigged" on post # 13, with respect to the same exact Ra quote above, where I shared: "All simply melts into the ONE, that we (as illusory identities in distortion in fact) never left to begin with. "IT" presumably remembers everything Infinitely, while we, to the point, which never were, melt into "IT" loosing our identities and individual memories once again, but that "IT" nonetheless retains. "IT" remembers. We forget. We never were anything other than "IT's" parts subdivided, now (once again) joined whole."

If unity 100's native tongue in this instance, as regards pronouns specifically, is not English, then as before I understand from personal experience the torturous difficulty of expression in a said different tongue. I asked him before and would in kindness ask again if English is his first language, this wholly separate and apart from seeming contradictory statements and interpretations to the LOO.

unity 100 says, "the octave entities merge with infinite intelligence, yet, they keep their nature, characteristics, biases that they will carry with themselves to the next octave."

The language is indeed contradictory given that the pronouns "they" and "their" and "themselves" are personality identifiers, which Ra very clearly states melt fully into the "IT." They keep nothing of Theirs. "IT" keeps everything of "All" which was and is "ALL" / "IT's in any event as us to begin with.

Our identities, and as such memories contained therein, were in fact IT's memories. As we, part and parcel of the illusion and distortion, melt and are reabsorbed back into "IT", we loose ourselves and those identities.

If unity meant to express anything similar to this, but struggled as a result of not being English (my presumption), then he may have been partly on target. If he is English, then indeed the statement is mutually contradictory once again to Ra.

And here I part again with unity 100, as total clarification to all of the above, stated more elegantly and simple, which is wholly different from linguistics or syntax, and pertains only to definition and understanding: "IT" as "The One Infinite Creator" being "Infinity Aware" and as such "Intelligent Infinity", which are ALL ONE as "INFINITY", does not loose the memory of IT's memories whose IT was to begin with, and for which IT did all this to learn of IT-self more.

~ Q ~

[Ali Quadir]

Does Ra actually suggest anywhere that information is carried from one octave into the next? Or are we merely assuming this?

[Quantum]

Does Ra actually suggest anywhere that information is carried from one octave into the next? Or are we merely assuming this?

Hi Ali. Great question. I do believe that there are hints to this information in the quotes. If we search...I am sure we may answer,

or just let βαθμιαίος do it who is so much more proficient if not efficient at finding the relevant quotes as quickly as he seems magically able to do. It's all in the wrist.

[Steppingfeet]

Ah, good good laugh! Thanks 3D Sunset and Lavazza. : )

[3D Sunset]

Does Ra actually suggest anywhere that information is carried from one octave into the next? Or are we merely assuming this?

I have been racking my brain for some time find the right search words to retrieve the following quote. I knew it was in there somewhere, but I could not lay my hands on it. I think this quote is pertinent to several discussion on several of these threads.

Questioner: We are concerned in this communication with the evolution of mind, body, and spirit. It seems to me that a good place to start would be the transition from the second to the third density, then to investigate in detail the evolution of third-density entities of Earth, paying particular attention to the mechanisms which help or hinder that evolution.

Do all entities make a transition from second to third density, or are there some entities who have never gone through this transition?

Ra: I am Ra. Your question presumes the space/time continuum understandings of the intelligent energy which animates your illusion. Within the context of this illusion we may say that there are some that do not transfer from one particular density to another, for the continuum is finite.

In the understanding which we have of the universe or creation as one infinite being, its heart beating as alive in its own intelligent energy, it merely is one beat of the heart of this intelligence from creation to creation.

In this context each and every entity of consciousness has/is/will experienced/experiencing/experience each and every density.

Based upon this statement, it does appear that individual consciousnesses do transcend octaves (creations, universes, etc). At least to the point of being allowed to progress fully up the evolutionary path. Given this, it also seems possible that the consciousness of an entity that has progressed through all densities within an octave may also cross octaves.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[βαθμιαίος]

however, the characteristics of the spirit, the very differentiation in the nature of those elements, would be discovered, manifested, and carried to another octave.

I don't disagree that the gleanings of this octave are carried forward to the next. But Ra says "it would not be our awareness, but simply awareness of the Creator. In the Creator is all that there is. Therefore, this knowledge would be available."

So I agree with Quantum that the Creator carries forward what it learns in this octave, but individual entities don't do so as individuals because they have merged back into the Creator.

In this context each and every entity of consciousness has/is/will experienced/experiencing/experience each and every density.

I agree that this could be interpreted in the way you suggest, but it could also be interpreted to mean that they will experience every density because they are part of the one infinite being. Given Ra's other comments that I have posted above, I think the latter is the safer interpretation.

[3D Sunset]

But Ra says "it would not be our awareness, but simply awareness of the Creator. In the Creator is all that there is. Therefore, this knowledge would be available."

So I agree with Quantum that the Creator carries forward what it learns in this octave, but individual entities don't do so as individuals because they have merged back into the Creator.

[quote='βαθμιαίος' pid='21617' dateline='1287704697']
I agree that this could be interpreted in the way you suggest, but it could also be interpreted to mean that they will experience every density because they are part of the one infinite being. Given Ra's other comments that I have posted above, I think the latter is the safer interpretation.

Hi βαθμιαίος,

I understand what you're saying, but I think there is a middle ground. First, recall that we know from Ra that there are entities that move between Octaves.

Questioner: Why does Ra not have any knowledge of that which was prior to the beginning of this octave?

Ra: I am Ra. Let us compare octaves to islands. It may be that the inhabitants of an island are not alone upon a planetary sphere, but if an ocean-going vehicle in which one may survive has not been invented, true knowledge of other islands is possible only if an entity comes among the islanders and says, “I am from elsewhere.” This is a rough analogy. However, we have evidence of this sort, both of previous creation and
creation to be, as we in the stream of space/time and time/space view these apparently non-simultaneous events.

Given this fact, it seems apparent that consciousnesses can cross Octaves. Also recall that our planet is actually under the protection of entities from the next octave.

The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.

Granted, this does not mean that each and every conscious entity exists across the octaves, but it seems clear that at least some do. To your point about the knowledge being available (and my proposed middle ground): Would it not be rather straightforward for One with infinite intelligence to reconstitute a conscious entity in a new octave, at whatever stage of evolution of the entity IT desired, in order to allow the the consciousness to complete its evolutionary path, given the fact that it has brought all the knowledge of the entity with it into the new octave?

Forgive me Quantum, if I may be taking your thread off topic. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to create a thread about crossing the octaves. I believe that there is much fertile ground to be plowed here.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[unity100]

Does Ra actually suggest anywhere that information is carried from one octave into the next? Or are we merely assuming this?

spiritual bias, the characteristics of that fragment of the spirit is not 'information'.

information is what is contained in mind, subconscious mind. the experience too.

I don't disagree that the gleanings of this octave are carried forward to the next. But Ra says "it would not be our awareness, but simply awareness of the Creator. In the Creator is all that there is. Therefore, this knowledge would be available."

So I agree with Quantum that the Creator carries forward what it learns in this octave, but individual entities don't do so as individuals because they have merged back into the Creator.

the 'individual entity' concept is something that is made up by attaching a spirit complex to a mind complex and a body complex to that mind complex. this is what we understand from book iv. (to give free will, also a 'declaration' that the mind/body/spirits are now complexes, has been made at one point in this octave it seems).

the 'identity' of the 'entity' therefore, is what this complex, significator accumulates and manifests throughout its journey through the octave. and that journey, is for, apparently knowing the spirit that is attached to the brain, and its projection; mind part. 'the creator will know itself' part, the 'discovery' part, relates to knowing that spirit. shard that manifests as a subdivision in the octave. that proposition fulfills and enlightens various concepts we are given, like the ones in below quote .

Questioner: We are concerned in this communication with the evolution of mind, body, and spirit. It seems to me that a good place to start would be the transition from the second to the third density, then to investigate in detail the evolution of third-density entities of Earth, paying particular attention to the mechanisms which help or hinder that evolution.

Do all entities make a transition from second to third density, or are there some entities who have never gone through this transition?

Ra: I am Ra. Your question presumes the space/time continuum understandings of the intelligent energy which animates your illusion. Within the context of this illusion we may say that there are some that do not transfer from one particular density to another, for the continuum is finite.

In the understanding which we have of the universe or creation as one infinite being, its heart beating as alive in its own intelligent energy, it merely is one beat of the heart of this intelligence from creation to creation.

In this context each and every entity of consciousness has/is/will experienced/experiencing/experience each and every density.

now, there are various important points here.

firstly, we are told that continuum is finite. ie, a spirit collective, a spirit group consciousness, may not be able to transition from 2d to 3d, we are told.

the other part is more important. it takes the universe as one infinite being. first, we know that our current universe, is finite. we are able to calculate the size of universe, or observe boundary of universe. so, at any given time, universe is finite. however, it is expanding, and its existence may be infinite.

this possibility, its existence being infinite, gives meaning to a concept; it means this octave will keep being here forever, even when the entities that constantly graduate from here continually pass to the next octave. so that, it will be still here, when a wanderer from the next octave comes back to 'bring light' for the harvest. it also resembles the higher self phenomenon. second, it seems to imitate the similar pattern of existence/manifestation in the individual level.

but it means various other important things ; first, this octave, these infinite universes that manifest as part of this octave, are not the entirety of manifestation of infinite intelligence. ie, the central sun of this octave, is not 'the' one single central logos. it means that in different octaves, different central logoi exist. so, that makes the central logoi of octaves, just what Ra says in regard to 'first thing in creation' sequence; a focus point infinite intelligence finds, one of the infinite focus points that happen through octaves.

there is a possibility that, there is one central logos, but, different octaves sees its portions, despite that central logos serves all octaves, and their infinite universes. this is also possible, and it also compatible with the continual refraction/sublogoi concept in the hierarchy mechanic of manifestation. but then, that would mean there is one single focus.

now, if we come to the non-continuum of experience and 2d entities not passing to 3d because that continuum is finite, BUT, they being able to eventually experience all densities, this can happen in two different ways :

- this octave stays here forever, and those fragments experience densities here, in another 'time' (octave level 'time').
- or they are experiencing these densities, in another universe that belongs to this octave.

regardless, this reinforces what is above; what is being discovered are the fragments of infinite intelligence, aka, spirit fragments. and eventually all fragments' nature and characteristic is discovered by going through octaves, and each becomes known to all.

.............................

the definition and understanding of 'identity' and 'entity' are important here.

the inclination is generally to take these as what you see here, ie, you, me, the significator that actually manifests and changes.

however, what defines the ultimate identity, characteristic of that significator is ultimately the spirit that manifests in that significator. spirit, does not become null and void, at octave end. its nature, whatever it is, will stay. moreover, there will be infinite characteristic about that spirit to be discovered. so, it keeps existing and manifesting in another octave in infinity, manifesting another side of itself from its inner characteristics.

[βαθμιαίος]

I understand what you're saying, but I think there is a middle ground.

Hi 3D,

I'm afraid that, despite your best intentions, you may have jumped into another angels-dancing-on-the-head-of-a-pin thread. This one, like others, could come down to...

"Finites are real."
"Are not."
"Are too."
"Are not."

But perhaps I'm being too hasty in my analysis.

Given this fact, it seems apparent that consciousnesses can cross Octaves. Also recall that our planet is actually under the protection of entities from the next octave.

Very true. However, it may be that in crossing octaves they don't pass through the timeless merging between octaves but rather think themselves straight to the desired location in the new octave. You don't disagree, do you, that entities that move into the timeless stage at the end of the octave from seventh density have left their identities behind and merged back into the Creator?

Would it not be rather straightforward for One with infinite intelligence to reconstitute a conscious entity in a new octave, at whatever stage of evolution of the entity IT desired, in order to allow the the consciousness to complete its evolutionary path, given the fact that it has brought all the knowledge of the entity with it into the new octave?

The One you are referring to here would be a Logos or similar, right? I agree it would be possible for such a One to do what you suggest but would it want to, I wonder? Let's take an entity that did not make it all the way through the last octave, when the polarity lesson was mover/moved. Would it really make sense to place such an entity in our third density, say, with its intense catalyst revolving around STO and STS? To me, it would make more sense to allow a new being to form itself out of the harvested, completed knowledge of the Creator of that octave.

this possibility, its existence being infinite, gives meaning to a concept; it means this octave will keep being here forever, even when the entities that constantly graduate from here continually pass to the next octave. so that, it will be still here, when a wanderer from the next octave comes back to 'bring light' for the harvest. it also resembles the higher self phenomenon. second, it seems to imitate the similar pattern of existence/manifestation in the individual level.

Interesting idea. Ra does say that there is such a thing as true simultaneity.

however, what defines the ultimate identity, characteristic of that significator is ultimately the spirit that manifests in that significator. spirit, does not become null and void, at octave end. its nature, whatever it is, will stay. moreover, there will be infinite characteristic about that spirit to be discovered. so, it keeps existing and manifesting in another octave in infinity, manifesting another side of itself from its inner characteristics.

It's not that the spirit becomes null and void at octave end. It's that it, along with all the other spirits of the octave, rejoins the plenum so that the Creator can move into the next octave informed by all the experiences of this one.

[unity100]

Given this fact, it seems apparent that consciousnesses can cross Octaves. Also recall that our planet is actually under the protection of entities from the next octave.

Very true. However, it may be that in crossing octaves they don't pass through the timeless merging between octaves but rather think themselves straight to the desired location in the new octave. You don't disagree, do you, that entities that move into the timeless stage at the end of the octave from seventh density have left their identities behind and merged back into the Creator?

there is no difference in between those. in your version, it means that the later octaves increasingly gain capability to move about existence. still, for something to move about, there has to be something.

definition of 'identity' is important.

where was your 'identity' before this octave ? entities have merged at the end of last octave too.

The One you are referring to here would be a Logos or similar, right? I agree it would be possible for such a One to do what you suggest but would it want to, I wonder? Let's take an entity that did not make it all the way through the last octave, when the polarity lesson was mover/moved. Would it really make sense to place such an entity in our third density, say, with its intense catalyst revolving around STO and STS? To me, it would make more sense to allow a new being to form itself out of the harvested, completed knowledge of the Creator of that octave.

this is a long topic in itself.

however, one should remember that whatever is discovered,is known to all. mover/moved, positive/negative are mechanics to increase manifestation of existence. when they are discovered, they are discovered by all.

what's being known, however, is the 'existing' intelligent infinity. but, even in that respect, it is possible that, for any given fragment of intelligent infinity to be fully realized, they may have to go through all experiences. ie, any given finite may need to pass through positive/negative.

but, there are infinite universes, leave aside infinite octaves. thus, probably there is the chance of that finite to experience what it needs to, in another nexus, simultaneously, and pop in the next octave, as having learned it. that is, if it needs to pop in that octave/universe combo at all.

this possibility, its existence being infinite, gives meaning to a concept; it means this octave will keep being here forever, even when the entities that constantly graduate from here continually pass to the next octave. so that, it will be still here, when a wanderer from the next octave comes back to 'bring light' for the harvest. it also resembles the higher self phenomenon. second, it seems to imitate the similar pattern of existence/manifestation in the individual level.

Interesting idea. Ra does say that there is such a thing as true simultaneity.

infinity > infinite intelligence > infinite possibilities. anything needs to be possible in infinity.

It's not that the spirit becomes null and void at octave end. It's that it, along with all the other spirits of the octave, rejoins the plenum so that the Creator can move into the next octave informed by all the experiences of this one.

if, 'the creator' is something that moves from octave to octave, 'having learned' some things, it directly implies limitedness, time along with numerous other things. it means it is limited, because it moves from octave to octave, and before 'this' octave, it didnt know what it knows now. and that, implies time, because it means there is change.

however indeed, that is the case. 'the creator' is just a focus point of the infinite intelligence. infinite intelligence being directly below infinity, it would mean that there are infinite number of focuses it finds, and infinite numbers of octaves, universes, being manifested and explored by those focuses.

[βαθμιαίος]

where was your 'identity' before this octave ? entities have merged at the end of last octave too.

As I understand it, my identity, like all of ours, was the Creator. Each of our identities is as the grass which "withers and dies while the love and the light of the One Infinite Creator redounds to the very infinite realms of creation forever and ever, creating and creating itself in perpetuity."

[unity100]

where was your 'identity' before this octave ? entities have merged at the end of last octave too.

As I understand it, my identity, like all of ours, was the Creator. Each of our identities is as the grass which "withers and dies while the love and the light of the One Infinite Creator redounds to the very infinite realms of creation forever and ever, creating and creating itself in perpetuity."

if your identity was 'the creator', then there would be no need for you to manifest in this octave. 'the creator' would have manifested itself.

if, you venture to saying that 'i am creator too' at this point, it would mean that 'creator' you speak of consists of infinite numbers of such 'small creatorlets' like you, and therefore, infinite 'identities' like you.

the 'one single god' fixation reminiscent of the religions of these earth, seems to create a problem for furthering ahead of this point. the need for there to be 'one single all powerful entity'.

a lot of people cant even entertain the possibility of any such potential entity being comprised of infinite characteristics in itself. as if, it has to be a uniform entity that is monolithic, singular.

and that is despite we are being TOLD that a discovery of the self exists. how can an entity discover its self ? what does it discover ?

it discovers its characteristics. its feelings, biases, nature.

similarly, for any kind of existential entity to discover anything about itself, first there has to be SOME thingS to discover. you cant discover what doesnt exist.

this is 'the creator' ra tells us, which will 'know itself'.

people seem to be having to pigeonhole this into a one single all powerful uniform entity, which is overly parallel with the demands and principles of the semitic-caanan religions of this planet.

actually such a problem, such a fixation, doesnt even exist in any philosophy or religion on the face of the planet except the ones from middle east zone, or influenced by any of the ones from there or their branches.

however it is as such ; nothing that doesnt exist, can be discovered. so, there has to exist things to discover, for any discovery to be made.

moreover, actually, that 'the creator' that is being discussed here, actually is discovering stuff about itself. this is more important a point than it actually seems while skimming the sentence.

if, an entity is able to discover something about itself, it means that there were things which it didnt know about itself, before. and that means that, that entity had not had the knowledge/awareness of that aspect of its self, or whatever it was that it discovered.

this alone, invalidates the concept of 'one infinite all powerful entity', because, if there was something that is not known before, it means that entity was not as powerful before, hence, not 'all powerful. and, the fact that earlier it didnt contain the awareness of whatever it discovered, it means that this awareness was not found/contained in it before, and therefore it means that it is not infinite.

[3D Sunset]

Hi 3D,

I'm afraid that, despite your best intentions, you may have jumped into another angels-dancing-on-the-head-of-a-pin thread. This one, like others, could come down to...

"Finites are real."
"Are not."
"Are too."
"Are not."

But perhaps I'm being too hasty in my analysis.

I cannot guess how others may respond and react to the possibilities I am presenting. I, however, am the first to concede that these questions are unknowable from our position within 3D. As such, "I have no dog in this fight", as we like to say here in the South. I am merely pointing out possibilities that I can straightforwardly deduce or induce from the Ra Material, and then exploring them through discussion with similarly informed folks (and yes, Quantum, I too do enjoy a good discussion).

Very true. However, it may be that in crossing octaves they don't pass through the timeless merging between octaves but rather think themselves straight to the desired location in the new octave. You don't disagree, do you, that entities that move into the timeless stage at the end of the octave from seventh density have left their identities behind and merged back into the Creator?

This is an interesting question, and one that begs a little more discussion. In reality I think that at the end of 3D much of what we view as "our identity" has been lost in the distillation process that allows the forming of a 4D SMC. (And for that matter, much of of what we consider "our identity" within 3D is lost with the death of each Yellow Ray body). As evolution continues, so too is lost most and eventually all of the remaining identity. But that is not to say that the essence of the entity could not be, in some fashion, reconstituted if the One Infinite Creator desired to do so.

The One you are referring to here would be a Logos or similar, right? I agree it would be possible for such a One to do what you suggest but would it want to, I wonder? Let's take an entity that did not make it all the way through the last octave, when the polarity lesson was mover/moved. Would it really make sense to place such an entity in our third density, say, with its intense catalyst revolving around STO and STS? To me, it would make more sense to allow a new being to form itself out of the harvested, completed knowledge of the Creator of that octave.

With Infinite Octaves in which to explore existence, there should be ample Octaves of a similar construction in which the entity may evolve throughout the densities. That said, might it not also make sense to explore the effect of changing archetypes and physical laws on the evolutionary process of entities that were not merged in their previous Octave as a set of experiments by the One Infinite Creator? I cannot even pretend to fathom what might make sense to an entity intent of experiencing itself, with infinite time and resources to devote to it.

Along those lines, here's an interesting thought that occurred to me recently. For some time I have been pondering why, exactly, the quarantine was needed. Lately, I have been formulating an hypothesis that perhaps we, on Earth, may be part of an even larger experiment than we already know.

Let me explain.

Questioner: The guardians were obviously acting within an understanding of the Law of One in doing this. Can you explain the application of the Law of One in this process?

Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One was named by these guardians as the bringing of the wisdom of the guardians in contact with the entities from the Red Planet, thus melding the social memory complex of the guardian race and the Red Planet race. It, however, took an increasing amount of distortion into the application of the Law of One from the viewpoint of other guardians and it is from this beginning action that the quarantine of this planet was instituted, for it was felt that the free will of those of the Red Planet had been abridged.

Given that we know that Guardians are from the next Octave, this quote takes on a new dimension (so to speak). Was the quarantine perhaps instituted due to the injection into our 3D m/b/s complexes with "wisdom" from another Octave? This quote seems to say so. And is one of the Guardians' roles here perhaps to observe how this experiment aids in our evolutionary process?

One last thought on quarantines. In all of our languages and customs quarantines are used to protect others from possible infection. Throughout the Law of One, the term seems to be used in the opposite sense. That is, to protect us from inappropriate meddling from other higher dimensions. Is it possible that the quarantine serves the double purpose of protecting other portions of this Octave from being affected by the experiment?

As I said, this is just an hypothesis, but I find it a very intriguing one. Don't you?

Food for thought,

3D Sunset

[βαθμιαίος]

3D,

I think the guardians referred to in session 9 are the social memory complex Yahweh. See

18.18 Questioner: Can you tell me Yahweh’s purpose in making the genetic sexual changes?

Ra: I am Ra. The purpose 75,000 years ago, as you measure time, was of one purpose only: that to express in the mind/body complex those characteristics which would lead to further and more speedy development of the spiritual complex.

[unity100]

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#6

28.6 Questioner: When does the individualization or the individualized portion of consciousness come into play? At what point does individualized consciousness take over working on the basic light?

Ra: I am Ra. You remain carefully in the area of creation itself. In this process we must further confuse you by stating that the process by which free will acts upon potential intelligent infinity to become focused intelligent energy takes place without the space/time of which you are so aware as it is your continuum experience.

The experience or existence of space/time comes into being after the individuation process of Logos or Love has been completed and the physical universe, as you would call it, has coalesced or begun to draw inward while moving outward to the extent that that which you call your sun bodies have in their turn created timeless chaos coalescing into what you call planets, these vortices of intelligent energy spending a large amount of what you would call first density in a timeless state, the space/time realization being one of the learn/teachings of this density of being-ness.

Thus we have difficulty answering your questions with regard to time and space and their relationship to the, what you would call, original creation which is not a part of space/time as you can understand it.

then, revisit this sequence :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=13&ss=1#5

and, specifically this :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...c=1&ss=1#7

13.7 Questioner: After this, what came next?

Ra: I am Ra. Awareness led to the focus of infinity into infinite energy. You have called this by various vibrational sound complexes, the most common to your ears being “Logos” or “Love.” The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity.

these two mean, what Ra dubs as 'the creator', is intelligent energy.

especially when we put the two bold bits together :

"the process by which free will acts upon potential intelligent infinity to become focused intelligent energy takes place without the space/time of which you are so aware as it is your continuum experience."

"Ra: I am Ra. Awareness led to the focus of infinity into infinite energy. You have called this by various vibrational sound complexes, the most common to your ears being “Logos” or “Love.” The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity."

focusing of intelligent infinity, which is an aware or conscious principle, is 'the creator'. furthermore, there is a concept that can be named as 'potential intelligent infinity'.

[unity100]

13.12 Questioner: Can you tell me how intelligent infinity became, shall we say (I’m having difficulty with the language), how intelligent infinity became individualized from itself?

Ra: I am Ra. This is an appropriate question.

The intelligent infinity discerned a concept. This concept was discerned to be freedom of will of awareness. This concept was finity. This was the first and primal paradox or distortion of the Law of One. Thus the one intelligent infinity invested itself in an exploration of many-ness. Due to the infinite possibilities of intelligent infinity there is no ending to many-ness. The exploration, thus, is free to continue infinitely in an eternal present.

Category: Cosmology

this.

this, should not be taken as 'time'. ie, 'intelligent infinity investeD itself in an exploration of many-ness'. it is not a past tense concept there. or should not be.

it is more possibly, a 'principle' hierarchy, or, a kind of priority.

manyness -> intelligent infinity -> infinity.

in between the manyness and intelligent infinity, lies the possible concept of 'the creator' that is one, single. and it is the focusing of intelligent infinity, as intelligent energy.

but, due to the nature of manyness, it is possible that there are infinite focuses, infinite 'creators' at that level.

this, can be seen from the reverse too. the 'merging' of finites is in the order that is above. the reverse goes towards the existence of manyness.

[3D Sunset]

3D,

I think the guardians referred to in session 9 are the social memory complex Yahweh. See

18.18 Questioner: Can you tell me Yahweh’s purpose in making the genetic sexual changes?

Ra: I am Ra. The purpose 75,000 years ago, as you measure time, was of one purpose only: that to express in the mind/body complex those characteristics which would lead to further and more speedy development of the spiritual complex.

Hi βαθμιαίος,

I understand. Suffice it to say that I don't, but to explain would require much more than a snippet. You've obviously already formed your opinion.

Enjoy,

3D Sunset

[βαθμιαίος]

I understand. Suffice it to say that I don't, but to explain would require much more than a snippet. You've obviously already formed your opinion.

I'm interested in hearing what you think. I'm just basing my opinion on the fact that Ra said "guardians" one time and "Yahweh" another when describing what seems to be the same action. Why do you disagree?

[Lavazza]

if, an entity is able to discover something about itself, it means that there were things which it didnt know about itself, before. and that means that, that entity had not had the knowledge/awareness of that aspect of its self, or whatever it was that it discovered.

this alone, invalidates the concept of 'one infinite all powerful entity', because, if there was something that is not known before, it means that entity was not as powerful before, hence, not 'all powerful. and, the fact that earlier it didnt contain the awareness of whatever it discovered, it means that this awareness was not found/contained in it before, and therefore it means that it is not infinite.

Hey Unity, I'm not so sure about these last points. The logic employed here is just that- and I wouldn't be surprised if logic, especially as employed in third density, is not a logical (pun intended) way to proceed on these matters. I paint myself in a corner by offering this thought as, being in third density also, I cannot hope to make a countering point to your theory and find it more valid.

But regardless, here it is anyway: Your idea about there being no hope for a 'one infinite all powerful entity' disregards the possibility that, should such an entity exist, being infinite and all powerful, could if it chose to, forget that it was as such and play a game with itself for fun. This is I think probably much more accurate, although as I mentioned earlier I cannot make a convincing case for it, nor even do I find myself with enough time to gather appropriate Ra quotes. Nevertheless I offer it for yours, and others consideration. I have no vested interest of there being such an entity, in fact Pantheism is more my style. But I'm also not closed to the idea of there being a One Creator, or God. Very probably the truth is somewhere in the middle, or somehow both.

Much L&L, ~Lavazza

---

One last thought on quarantines. In all of our languages and customs quarantines are used to protect others from possible infection. Throughout the Law of One, the term seems to be used in the opposite sense. That is, to protect us from inappropriate meddling from other higher dimensions. Is it possible that the quarantine serves the double purpose of protecting other portions of this Octave from being affected by the experiment?

Interesting line of inquiry, 3D. What elements do you think the quarantine was intended to isolate from the rest of creation? Maybe we have some basic knowledge that is fundamentally accepted as true, that is only speculation or esoteric philosophy for 'outside' entities? Or is the quarantine you were thinking of more in line with physical containment (the 'containment' being our short life-spans and thus inability to travel far in such a large creation?)

Great seeing you around here by the way.

~L

[unity100]

Hey Unity, I'm not so sure about these last points. The logic employed here is just that- and I wouldn't be surprised if logic, especially as employed in third density, is not a logical (pun intended) way to proceed on these matters. I paint myself in a corner by offering this thought as, being in third density also, I cannot hope to make a countering point to your theory and find it more valid.

logic is logic wherever it is. however if you mean the complex concept as a whole, it may depend.

But regardless, here it is anyway: Your idea about there being no hope for a 'one infinite all powerful entity' disregards the possibility that, should such an entity exist, being infinite and all powerful, could if it chose to, forget that it was as such and play a game with itself for fun. This is I think probably much more accurate, although as I mentioned earlier I cannot make a convincing case for it, nor even do I find myself with enough time to gather appropriate Ra quotes. Nevertheless I offer it for yours, and others consideration. I have no vested interest of there being such an entity, in fact Pantheism is more my style. But I'm also not closed to the idea of there being a One Creator, or God. Very probably the truth is somewhere in the middle, or somehow both.

that is not parallel to the issue at hand. the thing is, whether there exists a union of infinite aspects and traits/characters, or, there exists a single, infinite uniform entity that is in the fashion that is being described.

the latter is impossible, since there would be nothing to discover, if the entity was uniform.

the latter is mandatory, because, there has to be things to discover to discover anything, and, if there are infinite things 'an entity' can discover about itself, it means that that entity is comprised of infinite traits/characteristics. making it a harmonized collective of finites.

'both' may be a correct word, going towards infinity.

however the understanding of infinity would be incorrect if that 'single' entity concept is still forced upon it. infinity, to be infinity, needs to be in all states. therefore, it needs to be multiple as well as single, in harmonized fashion.

basically infinity would be a level above the 'sea' that is talked about in some sufist philosophies, and around or above the 'zen' that is described in that philosophy. 'the sea' and the symbol of zen, correlate to each other, in addition.

any kind of 'god', would be below these, as a focus point of intelligent infinity.