The Nicefication of Eating Meat

[Monica]

Ok, so you decide what is relevant to the conversation?

I just explained why I don't appreciate the term speciesism, and that is perceived as a intentional ploy to what? To maybe add an alternate perspective to the conversation? To maybe see deeper into the matrix of our co- created reality?  To catalyze emotion so that a deeper understanding of the distortion can be achieved?


If I can't speak freely offering my perspectives without being perceived negatively, there really is no point in talking about it.

I was answering your question. You can say whatever you want. I'm just trying to stay on-topic.

[Shemaya]

"Say something really bad about some vegan in an effort to shift focus away from what meat- eaters are supporting"

Monica, I come from a perspective that is holistic, meaning I am taking into account human evolution and the global population which consists of many meat- eaters over the course of human history in which eating meat ensured survival.

If you can't accept that perspective, and want to make 'meat-eating' defined singularly as an individual's moral choice to consume meat, then really you are very narrowly focused, and despite what you may think, lacking in compassion for other-(human)selves.

[Diana]

Ok, so you decide what is relevant to the conversation?

I just explained why I don't appreciate the term speciesism, and that is perceived as a intentional ploy to what? To maybe add an alternate perspective to the conversation? To maybe see deeper into the matrix of our co- created reality?  To catalyze emotion so that a deeper understanding of the distortion can be achieved?


If I can't speak freely offering my perspectives without being perceived negatively, there really is no point in talking about it.

Of course you may speak freely. I would assume everyone here wants that.

I am still unclear as to why you mentioned this author though. What relevance do his views have? Please be specific. Otherwise, your points are lost on this forum. 

I THINK you mentioned it because you are trying to imply some sort of twisted connection between this man, who was into eugenics, and vegans. But until you explain otherwise, I am forced to figure it out myself. If someone is German, does he or she have the same ideals as Hitler, or are they even influenced by him to think Jews are lesser humans?

[Diana]

Monica, I come from a perspective that is holistic, meaning I am taking into account human evolution and the global population which consists of many meat- eaters over the course of human history in which eating meat ensured survival.

That is okay to get a large picture. Yes, things were like that along the course of human history. But things are as they are TODAY. 

If it's true we are shifting, or have shifted, into 4D, then what relevance does the 3D past have with making decisions as to what to eat now? At this point, I think it's mostly habit for the civilized world.

And the larger picture regarding those who have no access to a plant-based diet is one thing. Most of us have a choice. So there is the whole planetary picture, but there is also the individual's choices.

[Monica]

"Say something really bad about some vegan in an effort to shift focus away from what meat- eaters are supporting"

Monica, I come from a perspective that is holistic, meaning I am taking into account human evolution and the global population which consists of many meat- eaters over the course of human history in which eating meat ensured survival.

Your response had nothing to do with my question about why you brought up a totally unrelated topic. Nor did you respond to any of my points about having to eliminate most of the words in the English language if you want to avoid using words coined by people you disagree with on other topics.

If you can't accept that perspective, and want to make 'meat-eating' defined singularly as an individual's moral choice to consume meat, then really you are very narrowly focused, and despite what you may think, lacking in compassion for other-(human)selves.

The typical response. "I can't think of a response to what the vegan said, so I will now resort to telling them that they are xyz...eugenicist, lacking compassion for humans, judgmental, etc." to shift the focus away from the topic and onto THEM.

And so it begins...

...

[Shemaya]

I have nothing else to say.

Bowing out.

Sorry Diana, I would explain further if I thought it would be beneficial. You can figure it out. I will say it Is NOT because of a twisted connection to vegans. It has to do with how the power elite co- opt various movements in order to serve their agenda. Oh my, saying vegans= eugenist is like saying meat-eater=insert whatever false analogy you want here.

[Monica]

I will say it Is NOT because of a twisted connection to vegans.

It sure sounded that way. Otherwise, why even mention it at all, in a totally unrelated discussion.

It is a common ploy to try to associate vegans with something negative: sickly, judgmental, holier-than-thou, controlling, militant (let's not forget militant!), bigot...and now we can add eugenicist to the list. Good going, Shemaya!

It has to do with how the power elite co- opt various movements in order to serve their agenda.   Oh my, saying vegans= eugenist is like saying meat-eater=insert whatever false analogy you want here.

The funny thing is, Shemaya, that no one ever said meat-eater=xyz. Not even once, in, what, 5-6 years? Not even once.

[Shemaya]

In my defense, regarding the relevancy of my comments, Diana had already posted a comment from Scott about the elite funding the New Age ideology. I wasn't answering that directly, but had been thinking about how that relates, percolating just below my conscious mind.

So the topic was already touched upon.

It is unfair to invalidate my comments as irrelevant and off- topic, I feel.

[Shemaya]

Deleted due to repeat

[Shemaya]

I will say it Is NOT because of a twisted connection to vegans.

It sure sounded that way. Otherwise, why even mention it at all, in a totally unrelated discussion.

It is a common ploy to try to associate vegans with something negative: sickly, judgmental, holier-than-thou, controlling, militant (let's not forget militant!), bigot...and now we can add eugenicist to the list. Good going, Shemaya!

It has to do with how the power elite co- opt various movements in order to serve their agenda.   Oh my, saying vegans= eugenist is like saying meat-eater=insert whatever false analogy you want here.

The funny thing is, Shemaya, that no one ever said meat-eater=xyz. Not even once, in, what, 5-6 years? Not even once.

Monica, I don't even think you heard what I said.

[Diana]

I have nothing else to say.

Bowing out.

Sorry Diana, I would explain further if I thought it would be beneficial.  You can figure it out.  I will say it Is NOT because of a twisted connection to vegans.  It has to do with how the power elite co- opt various movements in order to serve their agenda.   Oh my, saying vegans= eugenist is like saying meat-eater=insert whatever false analogy you want here.

Okay, bowing out is your prerogative. I just wanted to understand what you said. You must at least concede that Internet discussions can be confusing at times due to only having the written words, and so it behooves us to make every effort to be as clear as possible.

If you are still reading, I am curious about what agenda you are referring to and how that relates to eating meat (the topic of this thread).

[Shemaya]

Oh right, and be repeatedly accused of talking about something irrelevant, or off-topic. Or that I am saying vegans are eugenicists. Or that I am subtlety attacking or insulting vegans. Or that I am accusing vegans of being a controlling faction of society. Ridiculous!

No thanks.

[Diana]

Oh right, and be repeatedly accused of talking about something irrelevant, or off-topic. Or that I am saying vegans are eugenicists.  Or that I am subtlety attacking or insulting vegans. Or that I am accusing vegans of being a controlling faction of society. Ridiculous!

No thanks.

Shemaya,

Can you not take some some responsibility for the way your written words come across, and try to clarify to those who ask for it? 

Your defensiveness is not promoting understanding. This happens to everyone, as we all know about catalyst here.

No one accused you by the way. I said that in lieu of you explaining, I was forced to make my own interpretations, and it seemed to me that the underlying intention behind your words was to make a connection to vegans via the eugenicist author. Otherwise, I did not understand at all why you brought that author up in the context of this thread. My interpretation of what you said here was enhanced by comments you made in another thread that lumped vegans in with STS-type controlling factions on the planet.

Vegans cannot be lumped into a category. It's a prejudice, just as saying women are weak, white people are superior, Muslims are terrorists, etc. 

You started to explain your thinking, but only said it referenced another thread. I invite you to elaborate.

[Diana]

Shemaya:

That is the reason why so many beings who " answered the call" were born in these times, to help usher in true freedom for the whole planet.  This freedom has to start in our minds and the subtle realms first before it can manifest.  It is our collective, planetary consciousness, that creates the world we see.  If we look at a rape victim, or a soldier who dropped an atomic bomb and say, " you are free" , it is just simply not true on this level.

I agree. This was posted in another thread.

Can we not also think of suffering 2D beings the same way? Can we look at penned meat animals and say to them, You chose this and you are free, even though you are living your life imprisoned, not free, tortured and finally slaughtered?

There must be some acknowledgment of this reality here. Yes, there is a bigger picture. But this is part of it. 

[Nicholas]

There must be some acknowledgment of this reality here. Yes, there is a bigger picture. But this is part of it. 

Yes I am starting to wonder if you and Monica are fresh out of 2D Kindergarten.

[Monica]

Yes I am starting to wonder if you and Monica are fresh out of 2D Kindergarten.

WTF? Can you explain that please?

[Diana]

There must be some acknowledgment of this reality here. Yes, there is a bigger picture. But this is part of it. 

Yes I am starting to wonder if you and Monica are fresh out of 2D Kindergarten.

I'm not sure what you mean. How so? I would like the opportunity to understand why you think this. 

[Diana]

There must be some acknowledgment of this reality here. Yes, there is a bigger picture. But this is part of it. 

Yes I am starting to wonder if you and Monica are fresh out of 2D Kindergarten.

I'm not sure what you mean. How so? I would like the opportunity to understand why you think this. 

I'm bumping this trying to get a response.

[Nicholas]

Yes I am starting to wonder if you and Monica are fresh out of 2D Kindergarten.

WTF? Can you explain that please?

Yes but I first need to apologise as the moment in which I wrote that was one of judgement, negative judgement. A moment where I became separated from you both and chose to react, rather than respectfully respond. I am sorry.

I'm not sure what you mean. How so? I would like the opportunity to understand why you think this. 

And I must apologise to you also,  more so really as I took your last sentence completely out of context and framed it into a negatively judgemental statement. I am sorry.

The reason behind it was that during the process of discussions regarding the consumption of meat, its ethical foundations, and whether there is a place for it in 4D, in various threads I have perceived a lack of acceptance with regards to the expressed views of other members on Bring4th. I detected a type of irony at times where compassion for other members is forgotten about during these said discussions.

I have fallen on my own sword here with my obvious hypocrisy!

So in the attempt to discuss these issues and the perceived "rights" and "wrongs", which is yellow ray activity I believe , our green ray has not been in use at all (as I see it). That's the irony I refer to in that a sense of compassion for ALL things relies on the condition that our minds are in unity also.

Again I am sorry to you both and will delete the post immediately with an edit, "Deleted due to a regrettable judgement towards Diana & Monica" should either of you request it.

[Monica]

Yes I am starting to wonder if you and Monica are fresh out of 2D Kindergarten.

WTF? Can you explain that please?

Yes but I first need to apologise as the moment in which I wrote that was one of judgement, negative judgement. A moment where I became separated from you both and chose to react, rather than respectfully respond. I am sorry.

I'm not sure what you mean. How so? I would like the opportunity to understand why you think this. 

And I must apologise to you also,  more so really as I took your last sentence completely out of context and framed it into a negatively judgemental statement. I am sorry.

The reason behind it was that during the process of discussions regarding the consumption of meat, its ethical foundations, and whether there is a place for it in 4D, in various threads I have perceived a lack of acceptance with regards to the expressed views of other members on Bring4th. I detected a type of irony at times where compassion for other members is forgotten about during these said discussions.

I have fallen on my own sword here with my obvious hypocrisy!

So in the attempt to discuss these issues and the perceived "rights" and "wrongs", which is yellow ray activity I believe , our green ray has not been in use at all (as I see it). That's the irony I refer to in that a sense of compassion for ALL things relies on the condition that our minds are in unity also.

Again I am sorry to you both and will delete the post immediately with an edit, "Deleted due to a regrettable judgement towards Diana & Monica" should either of you request it.

Apology accepted!

I invite you to read the original meat thread, to gain a fuller understanding of the history of our interactions regarding this topic, here at B4. Here is an index to the main thread, though there have been about a dozen others. Taken collectively, a broader picture will emerge:

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...2#pid89582

[Blunt Force]

I never cook it. But I sincerely enjoy a meal if that happens (which I try to make to be rare).

[Shemaya]

A passive 'all is well' belief will do nothing to change the current conditions on earth.  An inner transformation and active effort to release the chains that bind humanity will manifest a free world.

My understanding is that 90% of the "new age" movement is funded by the elite.  They did this, of course, to throw in some key disinformation - like it's your thoughts that manifest reality.  Your thoughts -> create actions (doing) -> which change reality.  That's how it should read.  Jesus didn't sit around and think about how he wanted to change reality - he went out and did it.

I pasted this from another thread. These are quotes by other members.

Can not this be applied to the suffering of animals? Is it good to free humanity of the chains that bind but not animals? Is all well when it comes to animals but not humanity? Should action be taken only on behalf of humans?

Sure absolutely it can be applied to animals as far as manifested oppression, humans must actively pursue ending the tortuous, oppressive food industry and by all available means.  For some that is creating humane and good conditions for domesticated animals to live in. For some it is becoming pescetarian.  Some will become vegan.  Some will continue to consume meat in coming years in a highly conscious way because this is planet earth and we have domesticated animals.

The chains that bind humanity that I am referring to are the thought- forms that manifest this reality.  These thought- forms have been programmed into us by our parents and teachers, our religion, our media, our culture. From infancy we are programmed. Our brain takes on soft ware. We identify with the programming.  For instance " I am a woman".  " I am a sinner" " I am unworthy" " I am chosen by God". " I am unacceptable" " I am sad" " I am depressed" etc etc.

These underlying thoughts and beliefs  and emotions become catalysts in our everyday experiences as we interact with other- selves and our society. Our actions manifest often as a direct reaction to these beliefs and thoughts and feelings.  The inner transformation I am speaking of requires a new truthful  identity and a clearing of these beliefs and subconscious/ unconscious patterns.  This is the path of expansion of consciousness into a higher order and closer alignment to our true nature. Our true nature is consciousness. Our true nature is a creator.

As we do the inner transformation, our body - mind clears and we become more powerful.  For those who have sought to open their hearts, they have worked significantly with forgiveness and acceptance and processing emotions to activate and empower.  This power, which is just energy, is what allows a quicker manifestation of what we desire which is a peaceful planet where all beings are happy and free. This power is the power of transformative love which is the only real power there is.  

Humans in an empowered state will more easily manifest the world we want to create.  The inner transformation is an absolutely necessary precursor to the outward manifestation.  The quicker we all do that work, the inner work, the quicker we will manifest the beautiful world we and Gaia desire. The inner work is done by faithfully addressing our catalysts moment by moment and day by day. We have to address them anyway, because our physical bodies eventually manifest the imbalance.  But if we address the emotional/ relational/ mental consistently and faithfully we are actively releasing the chains that bind humanity.  We are in this together and every bit we do helps the whole.

[Diana]

I'm not sure what you mean. How so? I would like the opportunity to understand why you think this. 

And I must apologise to you also,  more so really as I took your last sentence completely out of context and framed it into a negatively judgemental statement. I am sorry.

The reason behind it was that during the process of discussions regarding the consumption of meat, its ethical foundations, and whether there is a place for it in 4D, in various threads I have perceived a lack of acceptance with regards to the expressed views of other members on Bring4th. I detected a type of irony at times where compassion for other members is forgotten about during these said discussions.

Apology accepted and thank you for the explanation.

You may or may not read the original closed meat thread where all angles of this subject are expressed. There is the archive that a few of us put together with many of the repeated concepts and questions answered from our (vegetarians) points of view, which Monica has recently bumped to its own thread.

I see the lack of acceptance you perceive differently. If you read through the other threads devoted to this subject, you may see that there has been non-acceptance for vegetarians and especially vegans, and sometimes downright attacking, accusations, name-calling, sarcasm, implied insults, etc. Very few here seem to see it this way. I am not complaining as I don't really care about defending myself; I am here to discuss things I don't discuss "out in the world"; I am just giving you another perspective. When I say I don't care about defending myself, that doesn't mean I won't defend my point of view. 

I am straight-forward and rational. So, in my case, I like to say what I think as authentically as possible. I do endeavor to be respectful. Meat-eating is a difficult subject to canvass. Would there be a discussion at all if we all just said, Okay, everyone has free will so do whatever they want? Of course this is true, but aren't we here to DISCUSS the implications of eating meat (in various threads)? What would anyone here expect a vegetarian to say regarding this subject? That we think it's fine to torture animals? I'm not evolved enough to be above this world so far that I can feel that. I do accept it in general as the point at which 3D existence has evolved to, but I don't like it. 

Everyone deserves to make their own choices, and I promote that 100%. That is a different subject than—though relevant to—the implications of eating meat.

[Blunt Force]

Listen to my advice not to do anything heavy on this topic because you cannot control every bite. Do you want me to go heavy on this? - Dine and wine together with same somebody.