Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another?

[Steppingfeet]

There was a point raised in the "Law of One Advanced Teachings and the Mind" thread that I wanted to respond to a couple of weeks ago. I've taken the pertinent material and started a new thread on the topic.

Unity100 wrotehowever i will try remaining unbiased, because i dont want to persuade anyone. the stuff i am attempting to discuss goes around the borderline of being infringement on other adepts' work. if i remember right, ra didnt relay much information regarding these, especially work of 7d, to refrain from infringing on the work of the adepts that were going to read the material.

Bring4th_GLB responded:
Ra knew that they were put into a position of authority. They also knew that they could in a heartbeat tell Don what the source of a particular imbalance was or what course of action he could take to alleviate it or who he was in past lives or who the second gunman on the grassy knoll was. From their evolutionary position, they have access to all of this information and they knew that the information, coupled with the authority ascribed their words, would be taken as truth and put into effect in the entity's life pattern, thereby circumventing the possibility of entity learning for itself through blind choice.

While a human (being the Creator) can know and become the One, dissolving all illusions, I still believe that the human entity (however much the humanness has been transcended) has neither the overview that Ra possessed nor the capacity to infringe on free will the way Ra could.

As far as I understand it, if you are operating within the third density in a yellow-ray, chemical body, you are free to share your truth and serve to the extent it is requested without fear of infringing by doing the learning for the other self. Though I could be wrong.

If you (Unity100) have something to share which you feel is profound and relevant to the discussion at hand, please do so. If members of the forums or the moderators suspect that "infringing" is taking place, then we will kindly ask that the activity be discontinued.

Unity100 responds: there is an important catch here.

any entity can, at any given point receive any kind of information from any given source, provided that the conditions are right. the nature of this information can be anything.

I agree, an entity can, I would imagine, receive any kind of information from any kind of source provided the right conditions are met. In the L/L group's case, those right conditions included: certain magical protocol, training in channeling, fidelity in service, harmony, trust, and support (along with a host of other contributing factors). These conditions met, they were able to communicate across the boundaries of three succeeding densities. Other information-acquiring methods include crystal-gazing, dreaming, psychic ability, intuitive deduction, out-of-body experiences, transpersonal awareness, and paying the CEO of a company about to fail to let you know when to sell your stocks.

However, my feeling is that the content of the information gained and shared – and its veracity therein – is only part of the equation. The other perhaps even more important element of the formula is the authority ascribed to the transmitter of the information.

Perhaps continued success in transmitting accurate or seemingly accurate information would bestow upon the giver an air of authority such that the receiving entity decides to substitute its own process of discernment with the information being received.

Unity100 respondsthis is especially more so for wanderers, who, as we have been told, at this point in time, were (mainly) entities from 6d, having already been working with the logoi as co creators, and having access to much information, before getting incarnated here.

If I remember correctly, Ra never said that wanderers have greater access to information than do natives to third density. Can you direct me to where in the Law of One Ra says this?

Ra said that the wanderer has only a bias in the spirit complex providing it an armor of light. (16.52: http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...16&ss=1#52) Further, in 65.19, they say: http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?ses...65&ss=1#19.

Unity100 wrote: and as Ra says, it was seen that there were as many methods as the imagination or intuition of the entities can conceive of, consciously or unconsciously, to penetrate the veil.

that means any entity in a wanderer's position can penetrate the veil by chance in a way that, s/he can get access to information that s/he knew before birth, OR, even, can connect directly to intelligent infinity consciously or unconsciously, and get whatever info that chances to be available at that junction in time/space at that given point in our time.

and what any information can allow entities to do, is boundless.

I agree with your basic point here (though I would argue some of the nuances).

So while there are no true boundaries and while the third-density entity may, through will and faith, retrieve the needed understanding to any question, would you contend that the human has the overview that Ra effortlessly possesses by virtue of their position along the evolutionary timeline?

I would say “no”. Though not enlightened myself, and not having met an enlightened entity, I’ve never heard of any teacher in recorded history having espoused a philosophy or cosmology quite like the Law of One (though I’ve crossed paths with virtually every element of the Law of One in other philosophies, excepting the viability of the STS path).

Presupposing that there have been entities who have known and become the One in planet Earth's history (as I believe there have), why has nothing quite like the Law of One been communicated?

Unity100 wrote: at this point it would be wise to remember how the atlantean entities used the information they have been given/gleamed (through the very use of pyramids i might add, or similar methods), not to heal themselves, but to create lifeforms to serve them as underlings, and engage in war.

also worthy of remembering is how the information tesla left have been used to create destructive weapons akin to ufos, going half the speed of light and using psychotronic and beam weapons.

also it is worthy of remembering that, how the negative entity rasputin, remembered the atlantean experiences and learning by intuition, and used them to polarize negatively.

So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that a) information may be gained and consciously used for destructive ends, b) information may be ignorantly mis-used, resulting in the destruction of self or other, and c) information may be used to polarize negatively.

None of this, in my humble opinion, necessarily means that the human may infringe on the free will of another in the way Ra could by doing the learning for another.

Unity100 wrote: thus, there are innumerable ways to gain information. and any seemingly innocent opinion, information we share here, may be a piece of information that could affect many things. one piece of information we impart here, may come up as a consequence a few billion years later in a different point in time/space.

it actually already did.

I couldn’t agree more with the notion that there are consequences for everything we do, down to every breath and every beat of the heart. We cannot avoid affecting others. Even if we were to retreat to a cave, never to see another human being, we would energetically be participating in and contributing to the planetary vibration. Thusly, any attempts to avoid affecting the situation would be made in vain. We cannot help but affect the situation. In fact, we hope to affect the situation. The wanderer is present on Earth to do just that, to respond to the call of sorrow and lighten the planetary vibration.

We of course wish to be careful about precisely how we affect others, our environment, and ourselves. Ideally we will affect the creation in alignment with our highest understanding such that only positively oriented service to others is rendered.

Yet, the only way I can see that the human can possibly breach free will in the way Ra could would be for other humans to attribute supernatural power and authority to that individual. In that case, the individual’s communicated understanding – if not carefully delivered so as to protect free will – might supplant the understanding of those listening.

However, I have yet to encounter an individual of this stature, in my personal interactions or on this forum. So, again, if you have something you would like to share that you feel is of an “advanced” nature, I humbly request that you share it. Or at least provide an example.

Should it be discerned that infringement is taking place, the moderators can simply say, “Unity100, ixnay on the infringementway”

Love/Light,
GLB

[JoshC]

I don't see the problem. No, an entity cannot "learn" for another entity, because learning is an activity that occurs in an individualized consciousness by that individualized consciousness. /thread?

[Ali Quadir]

It seems to me that a 6d wanderer who in his natural form is able to oversee the consequences of his actions can thus be held accountable for them. But a 6d wanderer who cannot oversee the consequences of his actions due to the presence of the veil cannot be held accountable.

However as a side note even if he cannot oversee the consequences he should still take responsibility for those consequences because they are part of his karmic path. The veil only envelops a part of us, the totality of us is never blinded.

[Namaste]

A good question.

Some food for thought...

In a positive and open scenario (STO), one cannot learn for another, as learning is a process in which the learnee (this word should exist - actually now it does!) actively chooses. The teacher will offer their notions and the learnee takes on board what they choose.

Telling a child they will burn in hell forever if they do not worship Jesus is an STS - fear based - means of infringing upon the free will of another. This fear causes a reaction; submission of will and independence of thought. The child, in this state of fear, then looks externally for guidance on how to survive (and hence, a strong read ray blockage from an early age).

Having said that, one could consider that any child who is in school and does not want to be there is having their free will infringed upon by their parents and the school organisation. The proverbial can of worms :¬)

...I’ve never heard of any teacher in recorded history having espoused a philosophy or cosmology quite like the Law of One (though I’ve crossed paths with virtually every element of the Law of One in other philosophies, excepting the viability of the STS path).

Presupposing that there have been entities who have known and become the One in planet Earth's history (as I believe there have), why has nothing quite like the Law of One been communicated?

A quick side note - remember that STS entities on this planet have purposely witheld this kind of empowering information for centuries. They have done this to keep people in a state of fear, and hence control. It is the advent of the Internet that has enabled this information to spread and become readily available to a large proportion of the world.

I posted this in the inspiration quotes thread, it's worth sharing here due to it's relevance...

The world is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. The ride goes up and down, around and around, it has thrills and chills, and it's very brightly colored, and it's very loud, and it's fun for a while.

Many people have been on the ride a long time, and they begin to wonder, "Hey, is this real, or is this just a ride?" And other people have remembered, and they come back to us and say, "Hey, don't worry; don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride." And we...kill those people.

"Shut him up! I've got a lot invested in this ride, shut him up! Look at my furrows of worry, look at my big bank account, and my family. This has to be real."

It's just a ride. But we always kill the good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok...

But it doesn't matter, because it's just a ride. And we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings of money. Just a simple choice, right now, between fear and love.

The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love instead see all of us as one. Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would pay for many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.

Back to your question - it has, by the means you mentioned yourself; elements in various philosophies. The Ra Material was unique in the fact the specifics of the group allowed unconscious contact at a very fine frequency of thought.

Don, being a very intelligent and dedicated seeker, allowed much information to surface due to his questions. Had another person been asking questions, the material could have been entirely different. Although very comprehensive, it was limited by Don's questions. Hence, one should not take this material as the only useful information available in the world.

Bashar, for example, is a 4D entity who gives just as specific information about the nature of the universe. His messages are more directed towards methods of self empowerment and actions (whereas Ra was more about the descriptive information). There are many complementary teachings that the Law of One does not cover, under the encompassing notion that we are all one.

This is why it's advisable not to follow just one source in a blinkered manner - one can be limited to the flavour of that source. Following the Ra Material and treating it as the direct word of the Creator, ignoring all others, is akin to religious zealots who "spreads the word of God". They too, are missing out on a wealth of teachings from various sources that can help one in life.

Especially so when one has not experienced anything contained in the material. I am of the impression that wisdom is gained through personal experience and intellect is gained through understanding other peoples experiences. One should hold caution when promoting the experience of others, regardless of the source of the material, as experience empowers a much more solid foundation of faith.

Back onto particular people, Jesus taught the Law of One through parables/metaphors. His words were chosen very purposefully as to not 'force' learning onto people, rather to get them to open their minds/hearts and find meaning themselves. This is how one can direct others on the path of self discovery/wisdom.

Buddha was the same, his messages were about unity, oneness, joy etc. As always, his words were flavoured by his personality. When people find this enlightened state, the persona seems to reflect one of peace and humility, offering words to invoke the seeker from inside, rather than direct in a schoolroom fashion.

This is the case with many masters and guru's both in the past and alive today. The impetus is to ignite the fire within each soul, generate that spark that leads the spirit to the self, asking inwardly, and most importantly experiencing it for the self, rather than be told of the experience.

Spirituality, to me, is looking internally for answers, rather than externally. Seeking externally removes the innate power each has within, seeking internally empowers the self with wisdom and experience.

This would explain why enlightened people always help people by getting them to search within, rather than hand them a study guide.

[Steppingfeet]

Ali Quadir wrote: It seems to me that a 6d wanderer who in his natural form is able to oversee the consequences of his actions can thus be held accountable for them. But a 6d wanderer who cannot oversee the consequences of his actions due to the presence of the veil cannot be held accountable.

Ali, that opens up a whole other (but related) can of worms: to what extent is an entity responsible for its actions?

Without diving too deep into the question, two points:

1) In my understanding, I don't think the wanderer in third-density is any more or any less responsible for their actions than third-density natives simply because the wanderer originate from a higher density. Ra does mention that the Law or Way of Responsibility basically kicks in or increases as an entity advances - but that should apply across the board, wanderer or not.

2) I don't quite understand where responsibility begins and ends, but regardless of our level of ignorance (veiled consciousness), I think we are all accountable on some level for the choices we make. As I understand it, that accountability, as I believe you are saying, increases as the entity progresses.

In a positive and open scenario (STO), one cannot learn for another, as learning is a process in which the learnee (this word should exist - actually now it does!) actively chooses. The teacher will offer their notions and the learnee takes on board what they choose.

If you are implying that ultimately it is the learnee (I've just cemented the word's official status!) who is responsible for their own learning process, whether they take conscious responsibility or abdicate their choice-making faculties to a perceived authority, then I would agree.

However, I would disagree with your statement that in a positive and open scenario, one cannot learn for another.

It's actually a bit confusing. Ra says twice that they cannot "learn/teach" for the student.

94.14 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=94&ss=1#14

90.29 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=90&ss=1#29

They also say that if "if we learned for you, this would cause imbalance in the direction of the distortion of free will".

15.13 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=15&ss=1#13

By "cannot", I believe Ra means, "will not". It is not that it is physically (or metaphysically) impossible to learn for another. It certainly can be done - it is called abridging free will and as such, Ra wisely refrains from doing so.

What I am trying to get at is this: Is the human being in the same position as Ra? Does this human need to withhold information for the same reason that Ra withheld information?

Namaste wrote: ...one could consider that any child who is in school and does not want to be there is having their free will infringed upon by their parents and the school organisation. The proverbial can of worms :¬)

Yeah, where the balance is between infringement and promotion of free will in the parent/child relationship is beyond me.

GLB previously wrote:

...I’ve never heard of any teacher in recorded history having espoused a philosophy or cosmology quite like the Law of One (though I’ve crossed paths with virtually every element of the Law of One in other philosophies, excepting the viability of the STS path).

Presupposing that there have been entities who have known and become the One in planet Earth's history (as I believe there have), why has nothing quite like the Law of One been communicated?

Namaste responds: A quick side note - remember that STS entities on this planet have purposely witheld this kind of empowering information for centuries. They have done this to keep people in a state of fear, and hence control. It is the advent of the Internet that has enabled this information to spread and become readily available to a large proportion of the world.

Good point. Similar philosophies may have existed at one time but got themselves squashed by the status quo.

Namaste wrote: I posted this in the inspiration quotes thread, it's worth sharing here due to it's relevance...

Thanks for sharing! I haven't heard Bill Hicks in a few years. I've got to find the CD or two I had of his comedy.

Namaste wrote:
Don, being a very intelligent and dedicated seeker, allowed much information to surface due to his questions. Had another person been asking questions, the material could have been entirely different. Although very comprehensive, it was limited by Don's questions.

Agreed. By "entirely different" though, I would qualify that by saying it would be different only in emphasis, not heart. The heart of Ra's message of unity would have remain unchanged, but a different questioner would have emphasized different facets of the "information which is ever and always the same". (http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=1&ss=1#0)

Namaste wrote: Hence, one should not take this material as the only useful information available in the world.

You're right, there is also The Daily Show and Calvin and Hobbes which are useful sources of information. : )

Without a disclaimer to the contrary, I'm left wondering if you are implying that I (GLB) am treating the Law of One material in this manner.

The reason I asked the question above about why nothing like the Law of One has appeared in the pages of history (to my knowledge, there is no system of thought prior to the flourishing of channeling in the latter half of the twentieth century that speaks of octaves of creation, STO vs STS, wanderers and so forth) was not precisely to say, "This is the ultimate and only source of valid information", but rather to contrast Ra's situation to the human's.

Unity100 is contending that, there being no boundaries, the human can access any and all information if the appropriate conditions have been satisfied. I am contending that, while I essentially agree, the enlightened human at the same time does not enjoy the "overview" (for lack of a better term) that Ra does. *If* the human, of its own faculties of awareness, could see what Ra sees, why has nothing even remotely similar to the Law of One appeared in the past five or so thousand years of recorded history?

Namaste wrote: Especially so when one has not experienced anything contained in the material. I am of the impression that wisdom is gained through personal experience and intellect is gained through understanding other peoples experiences. One should hold caution when promoting the experience of others, regardless of the source of the material, as experience empowers a much more solid foundation of faith.

Agreed. Experience is the ultimate teacher - there is no substitute for it.

Namaste wrote: Back onto particular people, Jesus taught the Law of One through parables/metaphors. His words were chosen very purposefully as to not 'force' learning onto people, rather to get them to open their minds/hearts and find meaning themselves. This is how one can direct others on the path of self discovery/wisdom.

You raise a good point: the proclivity of enlightened teachers to speak through parable and metaphor so as to veil their message, making its true meaning available only to those with the eyes to see and ears to hear. Does this, then, point to the possibility of a human being able to infringe upon the free will of another by sharing information?

Namaste wrote: This is the case with many masters and guru's both in the past and alive today. The impetus is to ignite the fire within each soul, generate that spark that leads the spirit to the self, asking inwardly, and most importantly experiencing it for the self, rather than be told of the experience.

Well said. : )

Love/Light,
GLB

[Aaron]

I think the reason why spiritually enlightened teachers don't disseminate pure information, but instead speak in parables or tailor their message, is that one cannot move another into their open heart. One can guide another towards their open heart. One can point out to another that they are walking on a spiritual path, but one cannot actually walk the path for another. Communicating the Truth to another by way of metaphor or some other creative way must be the most effective way, or the Buddha and Jesus would have gone around speaking of the universal order of things.

When speaking to others who haven't yet begun, or are just beginning to seek, I believe it is more helpful to tailor the message to their particular mode of thinking at that time. Note that tailoring the message isn't changing the content, just the style of delivery. Rather than communicate as directly as you can with words the nature of Truth, speaking to them at their level will more clearly illuminate their own path of self discovery. This allows them to more clearly see how the Truth you're trying to express relates to them, and in effect, gives to them the first rung of the ladder that you yourself are already climbing. The "object of the game" is to allow the circumstances to come about that provide the first spark that ignites their fire of inner seeking.

For example, the message in the book "What is Love" was tailored towards the young person receiving it. But it still contains in essence what is communicated to the adults as well. (http://www.llresearch.org/library/what_i...e_pdf.aspx)

There is no blue chakra blockage when one doesn't communicate the full scope of information to others because in that particular area of the life experience, the full scope of information isn't requested by the ones who are listening. Therefore, by communicating to them the essence of Truth wrapped up in its own special way, like a gift you're giving to them, you're providing them with exactly what they need at that time. But just how, and when, to communicate, is always a puzzle to me...

[Namaste]

It's actually a bit confusing. Ra says twice that they cannot "teach/learn" for the student.

94.14 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=94&ss=1#14

90.29 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=90&ss=1#29

They also say that if "if we learned for you, this would cause imbalance in the direction of the distortion of free will".

15.13 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=15&ss=1#13

By "cannot", I believe Ra means, "will not". It is not that it is physically (or metaphysically) impossible to learn for another. It certainly can be done - it is called abridging free will and as such, Ra wisely refrains from doing so.

What I am trying to get at is this: Is the human being in the same position as Ra? Does this human need to withhold information for the same reason that Ra withheld information?

Thank you for clarifying your question. In short, I think not...

Ra has knowledge and wisdom regarding the first, second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth densities. That's an incredible amount of wisdom that we can't possibly comprehend with our minds. This great wisdom yields a much greater responsibility, since we're so much farther behind in the evolutionary spiral. Ra's knowledge and power is far more capable of influencing our lower density civilisation (i.e. the misuse of power from the Egyptian High Priests).

You or I withholding some information with regard to the Law of One to another self is a different ball-game altogether. We are still under the heavy veil, and hence, cannot understand clearly. The veil is the key here, as we are not expected to understand fully, and hence the responsibility will be lower.

I would imagine for those who have connected to intelligent infinity and are enlightened, the responsibility is greater. Perhaps even, this answers your question as to why it has not been previously described/documented by these masters. Just a thought :¬)

Agreed. By "entirely different" though, I would qualify that by saying it would be different only in emphasis, not heart. The heart of Ra's message of unity would have remain unchanged, but a different questioner would have emphasized different facets of the "information which is ever and always the same"

Agreed. It was more of a case of comparing someone who was interested in particulars, such as manifestation or understanding dreams.

You're right, there is also The Daily Show and Calvin and Hobbes which are useful sources of information. : )

Without a disclaimer to the contrary, I'm left wondering if you are implying that I (GLB) am treating the Law of One material in this manner.

Haha!

Not at all, I was speaking openly to any reading this thread.

The reason I asked the question above about why nothing like the Law of One has appeared in the pages of history (to my knowledge, there is no system of thought prior to the flourishing of channeling in the latter half of the twentieth century that speaks of octaves of creation, STO vs STS, wanderers and so forth) was not precisely to say, "This is the ultimate and only source of valid information", but rather to contrast Ra's situation to the human's.

Perhaps the information that is given matches the balance - or imbalance of the left and right hemispheres of the brain (logic/rational thought or imagination/intuition). As we progress scientifically as a civilisation, and have rational minds to satisfy, Ra's technical descriptions are of great value.

When our/any civilisation is less technically/scientifically developed (think back to times with no electricity, cars, reactors etc.), that kind of technical information is interesting, but is it really that empowering/useful on a day-to-day basis. Probably not. The key is to understand the unity of consciousness and from this, one can act in a polarised manner, regardless of scientific background information.

Unity100 is contending that, there being no boundaries, the human can access any and all information if the appropriate conditions have been satisfied. I am contending that, while I essentially agree, the enlightened human at the same time does not enjoy the "overview" (for lack of a better term) that Ra does. *If* the human, of its own faculties of awareness, could see what Ra sees, why has nothing even remotely similar to the Law of One appeared in the past five or so thousand years of recorded history?

Agreed, I do not think that a third density brain is capable of understanding higher concepts to the same depth of Ra's. We may get glimpses, and packets of information, but it's still highly limited.

You raise a good point: the proclivity of enlightened teachers to speak through parable and metaphor so as to veil their message, making its true meaning available only to those with the eyes to see and ears to hear. Does this, then, point to the possibility of a human being able to infringe upon the free will of another by sharing information?

I think it does, under the criteria that this person had fourth density understanding while walking in third density. Jesus had lifted the veil. This, going back to the previous point, yields much greater responsibility.

I think the reason why spiritually enlightened teachers don't disseminate pure information, but instead speak in parables or tailor their message, is that one cannot move another into their open heart. One can guide another towards their open heart. One can point out to another that they are walking on a spiritual path, but one cannot actually walk the path for another. Communicating the Truth to another by way of metaphor or some other creative way must be the most effective way, or the Buddha and Jesus would have gone around speaking of the universal order of things.

When speaking to others who haven't yet begun, or are just beginning to seek, I believe it is more helpful to tailor the message to their particular mode of thinking at that time. Note that tailoring the message isn't changing the content, just the style of delivery. Rather than communicate as directly as you can with words the nature of Truth, speaking to them at their level will more clearly illuminate their own path of self discovery. This allows them to more clearly see how the Truth you're trying to express relates to them, and in effect, gives to them the first rung of the ladder that you yourself are already climbing. The "object of the game" is to allow the circumstances to come about that provide the first spark that ignites their fire of inner seeking.

For example, the message in the book "What is Love" was tailored towards the young person receiving it. But it still contains in essence what is communicated to the adults as well. (http://www.llresearch.org/library/what_i...e_pdf.aspx)

There is no blue chakra blockage when one doesn't communicate the full scope of information to others because in that particular area of the life experience, the full scope of information isn't requested by the ones who are listening. Therefore, by communicating to them the essence of Truth wrapped up in its own special way, like a gift you're giving to them, you're providing them with exactly what they need at that time. But just how, and when, to communicate, is always a puzzle to me...

Agree completely. One has to deliver information that is in resonance with the vibratory/emotional level of the other, otherwise it falls on deaf ears.

[Monica]

I think the reason why spiritually enlightened teachers don't disseminate pure information, but instead speak in parables or tailor their message, is that one cannot move another into their open heart. One can guide another towards their open heart. One can point out to another that they are walking on a spiritual path, but one cannot actually walk the path for another. Communicating the Truth to another by way of metaphor or some other creative way must be the most effective way, or the Buddha and Jesus would have gone around speaking of the universal order of things.

I agree but wonder whether it might be more than that. Since Jesus, Buddha, and other masters were still in 3D bodies, wouldn't there have still been some degree of distortion/coloration of the info they retrieved? Even though they penetrated the veil, does that mean they penetrated it completely?

Look at how modern-day psychics and channels often color their info with their own biases. Granted, most are probably not spiritual avatars on the level of a Jesus or Buddha, but still...Look at how Cayce colored the info he got from the Akashic Records with a Christian flavor...

At the time the 'holy books' of the world's various religions were written, there simply didn't exist in the vocabulary such terminology as densities, etc. Maybe none of them mentioned these topics because they wouldn't have been understood by their target audience. Or maybe even these avatars didn't retrieve those items of info because they weren't deemed relevant at the time...it was more important to teach love and forgiveness...Or maybe they didn't pass on that info because they didn't penetrate the veil enough to fully grasp the concepts themselves, not having had the benefit of a modern-day upbringing accustomed to science fiction, etc.

Aside from topics such as alternate timelines in the possibility/probability vortex, densities, STS/STO paths, those avatars did explore many of the topics covered in the Law of One. Jesus spoke of being "One with the Father" and loving your neighbor as yourself (implying Oneness). Yogananda described states of bliss, traveling the Cosmos (expanded awareness). Many secret magickal societies understood the chakras. Primitive shamans understood about "dreaming the future," soul retrieval, and other advanced spiritual concepts.

If we were to catalog all the topics covered in the Law of One, I would guess that the vast majority of them have indeed been covered by psychics, shamans, sages, and avatars, although cloaked in myth, mystery and parable. The notable exceptions being the 2 paths as both being valid. But all conventional religions acknowledge the 2 paths. Just the 'valid' part is missing.

Even then, there are hints...The Bible says "all things work together for good" ..."love your enemies" ...and that "God" created "Satan" ...though of course these obscure scriptures are often glossed over.

Maybe the topics have been covered previously, but just not with such clear articulation. This was made possible by the type of contact, which we know took some time before being available to Ra. We got a direct transmission from Ra, whereas all those other spiritual masters had the knowledge filtered thru their own consciousness, thus adding their own biases and flavorings.

[Aaron]

I agree but wonder whether it might be more than that. Since Jesus, Buddha, and other masters were still in 3D bodies, wouldn't there have still been some degree of distortion/coloration of the info they retrieved? Even though they penetrated the veil, does that mean they penetrated it completely?

There must have been at least some flavoring in the messages. Perhaps it's a function of free will - while incarnate, having the ability to teach how you will. Plus, you have to take into account the fact that the teaching is going to be more relevant and therefore effective when the teacher talks about things in the world of the learner. I think that's why Jesus' stories talk of farmers, weeds, seeds, and fishing, while the Buddha's talk of jewels, monks, and elephants.

Maybe the topics have been covered previously, but just not with such clear articulation. This was made possible by the type of contact, which we know took some time before being available to Ra. We got a direct transmission from Ra, whereas all those other spiritual masters had the knowledge filtered thru their own consciousness, thus adding their own biases and flavorings.

I think you hit the nail on the head there.

In addition, here's a "first hand" account from Jesus on why he spoke in parables:
Matthew 10 onwards - The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables. Though seeing, they do not see. Though hearing, they do not hear or understand."

[Phoenix]

What I am trying to get at is this: Is the human being in the same position as Ra? Does this [a] human need to withhold information for the same reason that Ra withheld information?

My addition.

I believe people are in a similar position to Ra with some information. I don't think taking someone's beliefs about things and forcibly changing them with properly backed up information including scientific etc. is completely ethical.

[Namaste]

Just stumbled upon an interesting and relevant quote from Ra regarding the lack of various sources of the Law of One.

We are not available to many of your peoples, for this is not an easily understood way of communication or type of philosophy.

Or, being the operative word. This indicates that channeling is not the only way, and perhaps one must have some kind of level or type of seeking which is in sync with the LOO. Hmmm

[Steppingfeet]

You or I withholding some information with regard to the Law of One to another self is a different ball-game altogether. We are still under the heavy veil, and hence, cannot understand clearly. The veil is the key here, as we are not expected to understand fully, and hence the responsibility will be lower.

I would imagine for those who have connected to intelligent infinity and are enlightened, the responsibility is greater.

That makes a great deal of sense. The veil (something I hadn't factored into this question) probably plays a prominent role in the function of responsibility and capacity to infringe. Thanks, Namaste. And, namaste. : )

Bring4th_Monica wrote: I agree but wonder whether it might be more than that. Since Jesus, Buddha, and other masters were still in 3D bodies, wouldn't there have still been some degree of distortion/coloration of the info they retrieved?

I would speculate that their teaching (and the teaching of any who penetrate intelligent infinity) happened on two basic levels. The first and most fundamental is the energetic, the silent radiation of realization of oneness.

On that level, that which they had to share would likely be the least distorted, the least colored, the most universal, the most timeless, and the most uniform. No matter the demographic or the cultural background of the individual meeting someone like the historical Jesus entity, the energy radiating from this being would be the same. It would be full of unending peace and unconditional love without a shred of fear, doubt, or separation. This communication of being would transcend all cultural, religious, mythological, and linguistic patterns - in short, all local context. It is the energy or the presence of what IS and depends not upon spatial or temporal circumstance.

In terms of the sharing of information (which is where I believe your question was headed), I think you're on the money. Though each of the two individuals named could surely find effective ways to communicate timeless, universal truths no matter the limits placed upon them by language, each would have to do so using local context - be it analogies of local plant or wildlife, local myths or customs, or local religious ideas. No outwardly communicated truth can be without a context, in my understanding.

Additionally, as you're saying, they access that undifferentiated, infinite existence from a unique, differentiated vantage point.

Bring4th_Monica: Even though they penetrated the veil, does that mean they penetrated it completely?

Can you elaborate what you mean here?

Bring4th_Monica
[1]At the time the 'holy books' of the world's various religions were written, there simply didn't exist in the vocabulary such terminology as densities, etc.
[2]Maybe none of them mentioned these topics because they wouldn't have been understood by their target audience.
[3]Or maybe even these avatars didn't retrieve those items of info because they weren't deemed relevant at the time...it was more important to teach love and forgiveness...
[4]Or maybe they didn't pass on that info because they didn't penetrate the veil enough to fully grasp the concepts themselves, not having had the benefit of a modern-day upbringing accustomed to science fiction, etc.

All plausible explanations!

[1]The Law of One, though simple, is an intricate and sophisticated philosophy of technical brilliance with twists of nuance and subtlety at every turn, so the more the language can carry this load and convey these concepts, the more the Law of One - as a communicated philosophy - will soar. But... I still believe that (in terms of verbal communication) much of its non-scientific information could have been communicated 2,000 yrs ago, albeit in much more limited and restricted form.

[2]About the target audience not understanding, I believe this gets to the heart of "Why hasn't humanity seen the Law of One in communicated form before?". Few there are that can understand it today, and that's taking into account an influx of millions of wanderers. Even fewer there were who could have understood it centuries past. With so very few who could understand, there must have concomitantly been just as few desiring that level of understanding. Without the all-important call on the part of the local population, the Confederation had no mandate to transmit the information as plainly as Ra was able to do.

[3] I think this explanation is another permutation of the absence of desire targeted in your previous hypothesis.

[4]That could be. As enlightened as someone like Jesus or Buddha was, there's no way, for instance, they could have understood the holographic nature of the illusion in terms of the physical analog of the hologram, something not invented until the 20th century. (Though I hear again and again that quantum physics confirms ancient eastern understanding. So maybe they did find ways to communicate non-physical truth without the aid of scientific postulates.)

I think that the author or authors of the Tao te Ching knew unity, aka: the mystery-clad macrocosm, aka: intelligent infinity. But the language of the time not equipped or evolved sufficiently to handle the load, the Tao was communicated in paradox, e.g., possess nothing so as to possess everything; lose to gain; be nowhere to be everywhere, etc.

Many secret magickal societies understood the chakras. Primitive shamans understood about "dreaming the future," soul retrieval, and other advanced spiritual concepts.

Chakras aren't something that I had considered. You're right there. Indian seekers especially. Chakras have long been understood and explored in that region of the world. And shamans of indigenous cultures have been very acquainted with non-physical realities.

Thanks for the discussion all! GLB

[unity100]

there is soon to be a very long post here.

[Steppingfeet]

LOL. Well thanks for the heads up, Unity100. I will take cover!

[unity100]

gree, an entity can, I would imagine, receive any kind of information from any kind of source provided the right conditions are met. In the L/L group's case, those right conditions included: certain magical protocol, training in channeling, fidelity in service, harmony, trust, and support (along with a host of other contributing factors). These conditions met, they were able to communicate across the boundaries of three succeeding densities. Other information-acquiring methods include crystal-gazing, dreaming, psychic ability, intuitive deduction, out-of-body experiences, transpersonal awareness, and paying the CEO of a company about to fail to let you know when to sell your stocks.

you forgot to include any kind of links any given soul has to the roots of mind, or, whichever complex s/he was with on a soul level, however closely aligned the individual to various energies is, and so on.

as Ra noted, there are as many ways as the entities' imaginations to penetrate the veil.

If I remember correctly, Ra never said that wanderers have greater access to information than do natives to third density. Can you direct me to where in the Law of One Ra says this?

this piece is not from about Ra. this is my own conclusion, especially drawing on the block above - ie, ways to receive information.

there are infinite ways to receive information, since, the veil is a mechanism that makes it harder for the conscious mind to contact the subconscious.

it doesnt matter how this is penetrated. once its penetrated any kind of thought, information and so on can pass forward.

since the mechanism is as thus, it wouldnt be a prerequisite to be a wanderer to penetrate it actually. any entity having a correct configuration that can have easy access or flow of information in between conscious and the subconscious. any kind of configuration.

however, my conclusion is, and i think rightly so too, because wanderers have bazillions of years in between their belts working on, in and with quite delicate aspects of existence, if they havent particularly limited themselves heavily not to be able to do so, the should have easier time penetrating the veil.

and it is probably so, because from the percentages Ra tells us about the differing ranks of awareness to their situation, wanderers seem to be starting already with some kind of penetration out of the box. had there been no penetration, they would already start with perfect fit within the societal mind as they are born.

it is also highly possible that most of these wanderers go to scientific or spiritual pursuits. the wanderer wave of 200 years Ra spoke about, for providing amenities and advancement (apparently) to mankind so that people could have time to actually spare to themselves and think about stuff tells us a great deal about this. there has been tremendous, phenomenonal technical progress within that era. some of them we already know to be wanderers, benjamin franklin (curiously he is also a scientist), nikola tesla, are 2 of them. i remember albert einstein as being a wanderer too, but i may be wrong, he may have received his information from confederate sources despite being a 3rd density entity himself. however, this kinda would also make him to be functioning precisely similar to wanderers.

actually, the very factor making wanderers such easy thinkers and inventors should be the closer ties to the roots of the mind itself.

I agree with your basic point here (though I would argue some of the nuances).

So while there are no true boundaries and while the third-density entity may, through will and faith, retrieve the needed understanding to any question, would you contend that the human has the overview that Ra effortlessly possesses by virtue of their position along the evolutionary timeline?

I would say “no”. Though not enlightened myself, and not having met an enlightened entity, I’ve never heard of any teacher in recorded history having espoused a philosophy or cosmology quite like the Law of One (though I’ve crossed paths with virtually every element of the Law of One in other philosophies, excepting the viability of the STS path).

Presupposing that there have been entities who have known and become the One in planet Earth's history (as I believe there have), why has nothing quite like the Law of One been communicated?

well, this last paragraph is a good point, and its also a very important subject.

firstly, we dont have sufficient information to talk about what kind of information atlantean students, egyptian students and south american students received. these are unknowns to us, we only know some about the late work of Ra in egypt with the tarot cards in order to teach the Law of One. this was way after the atlantean episode.

so, it is quite possible that information may have been communicated that straight.

secondly, there is this - it seems that whatever sources are governing this planet lately, have been under the opinion that they should use already existing thought, belief patterns existing on the world in order to teach/learn. ie,

there are already religions , a wanderer incarnates, s/he awakens, and then starts to disseminate information/philosophy within the framework of that religion.

this was a very, very naive and dangerous method actually, and this is a subject matter in itself that i mentioned before; flowing usable information/energy into any kind of existing thought/belief pattern without fixing the fundamental issues within that pattern only leads to strengthening of that pattern.

a good example of this is, how various wanderers have reinforced various religious hierarchical organizations, giving it more authority and power through the work they have done. their good deeds, miracles were used by these organizations. there was some good done, but, these led to the hierarchy gaining more power. in the end, it took doing the total opposite to free the masses from the controls of these organizations, ironically, by waves of wanderers again. but then again this seems to have created an inertia in itself, which shows itself in our current daily lives, especially in regard to spirituality.

So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that a) information may be gained and consciously used for destructive ends, b) information may be ignorantly mis-used, resulting in the destruction of self or other, and c) information may be used to polarize negatively.

None of this, in my humble opinion, necessarily means that the human may infringe on the free will of another in the way Ra could by doing the learning for another.

I couldn’t agree more with the notion that there are consequences for everything we do, down to every breath and every beat of the heart. We cannot avoid affecting others. Even if we were to retreat to a cave, never to see another human being, we would energetically be participating in and contributing to the planetary vibration. Thusly, any attempts to avoid affecting the situation would be made in vain. We cannot help but affect the situation. In fact, we hope to affect the situation. The wanderer is present on Earth to do just that, to respond to the call of sorrow and lighten the planetary vibration.

We of course wish to be careful about precisely how we affect others, our environment, and ourselves. Ideally we will affect the creation in alignment with our highest understanding such that only positively oriented service to others is rendered.

tho this would be a very advanced topic in itself, i would say that there is actually no free will.

existence seems to be an endless dance of sentient energies upwards, to even higher frequencies and existences, and unfortunately any action by any entity done in any distant part of existence, not even in this particular universe, affects all others' fates, lives, choices. basically, if existence is an infinite sea, it is impossible for any focus point's vibrations, waves, not to affect the whole picture itself, and all other focal points.

and when i look at the concepts of higher self, parallel universes, and mind/body/spirit complex totality as a higher self of the 6d higher self, all it seems to me that the whole question is which part of the fragmented ultimate totality will shoulder the burden of living what part of the total experience to be lived ; one may be taking the responsibility to live in a negative experience set, one a positive, one may be taking on the path of nonveiled 3, 4 to direct 8 d route etc.

actually i made very broad and contrasting examples to illustrate this - the parallel universe experiences may actually be exactly identical except in a certain aspect of a particular part of their road. and that difference may even look as a non difference to an outside observer, another entity. it basically all depends on how balanced an entity is.

i remember Ra saying the more balanced an entity is, the less is the need to experience parallel possibility nexuses.

so that means, the more balanced a mind/body/spirit complex totality is, the less will be the need to experience parallel universes.

thus, i very much think free will is something that is beyond illusion, in that regard.

Yet, the only way I can see that the human can possibly breach free will in the way Ra could would be for other humans to attribute supernatural power and authority to that individual. In that case, the individual’s communicated understanding – if not carefully delivered so as to protect free will – might supplant the understanding of those listening.

However, I have yet to encounter an individual of this stature, in my personal interactions or on this forum. So, again, if you have something you would like to share that you feel is of an “advanced” nature, I humbly request that you share it. Or at least provide an example.

Should it be discerned that infringement is taking place, the moderators can simply say, “Unity100, ixnay on the infringementway”

this is a good topic that needs some clearing. i will approach it from some important angles, and i also i will use myself as an example to examine this topic.

firstly a very important practical consideration. observe the case of Jehoshuah (real name of jesus of nazareth as Ra called him) :

if any of you have done research on early christianity or late roman empire history from unbiased sources, or have watched recent documentaries on researches which were done recently, you will probably remember that his teachings and philosophy was quite spiritual and otherworldly in nature, with the total refusal of materialism, even the scorning of bodily incarnation and longing for death to be 'one' again, about extreme sharing, love and quite simply, the similar stuff what we are mainly having in new age literature today. the teachings were very popular with the rich, elite seekers in caanan, levant and asia minor in early days of christianity, with its advanced approach to these subjects.

but then again, it was also very dangerous for roman empire, because it basically threw off every one of its fundamentals into the hearth ; materialism, slavery, elitism, many gods that could easily be managed (despite having many gods and beliefs is not inherently bad) and so on. this is probably one of the most important reasons that early christians were prosecuted very badly, despite most of them belonging to elite classes and being rich.

but, as time went on and the followers remained a slowly increasing number, the early christians increasingly started to cater to the masses, by bringing the concepts to them in 'understandable' and simpler ways. it worked indeed, and the followers increased rapidly. after all, it was much logical to communicate the message in simpler terms, simpler ways the masses could understand.

but, naturally, the simpler 'divide your bread in this way and eat it this way, do something this way and do that that way' kind of messages, have gained traction, instead of the advanced teachings Jehoshuah was giving. with that, it was very easy for the fledgling religious hierarchy under control of the sovereign emperors to clamp down on the various sects, monasteries that still followed the early advanced and rather materially detrimental approach of early christians that still dotted caanan and egypt, while establishing control over the now dominant 'simpler' message.

result, was an even firmer control hierarchy at the hands of elite - this time through both material and religious. it has become a clutch that world couldnt get rid of 1700 years, if you count from 200 AD. 200 ad date is of course approximate, since the traces of hierarchical organization lies in much earlier than that, but the dominance is still a few hundred years further away. but, by this date pretty much it was done for as a momentum as far as i see.

this, is just a simple case example in which how the message of wanderers, even if planned very carefully and even having support of a whole societal complex behind it (remember the case of yahweh and the annunaki business), can easily be cramped by elites and rendered to their own end.

.......................

this gives us our first angle of approach :

it is of utmost importance that any information that has been given by any channel is communicated they exactly are, without trying to cater to existing biases, conditionings, dogmas, political views, habits of existing society or any of its parts, for any reason, so that the message wont get twisted, changed, dumbed down and then rendered to any other end.

think of it as a proper, open and pure communication of blue ray ; just as in the definition of the 5d, communicating and sharing one's self or message regardless of other selves' reaction, freely.

and, in another sense, communicating the utmost, purest message any given entity can muster with its current mind/body/spirit complex situation, chakras, openings and biases.

purest of possible. not dumbed down, not censored, not clogged or barred for any kind of cause or reason.

this is the most important issue of all the angles pertaining to this particular planet and its particular, very quirky and problematic 3d experience nexus. before, it was rather a losing fight, because it was much easier for the established elite segments to suppress and twist any message, lest they had any power. now, there is internet. from now on, it is impossible to clamp down information. unless, the entire planet goes totally naive and plays along the elites.

secondly, ra is advanced information. not only Ra noted this, but also many others dealing and involved in spiritual literature have noted this.

its not philosophical only, delivering obscure and generic, broad stuff that you can fit anything into, like 'your poo is zen'. it straightly, plainly, directly tells what it wants to tell. it talks about creation as it came to be from what Ra has learned, and it talks about paths and non paths, and what was before those paths.

its not 'love thy neighbor' only, like the most of the new age literature or channelings. it doesnt say 'love each other and everything will just pop, and be alright'. there are psychic attacks in it, there are information related to negative sources, there are even information telling how the 4d love, 4d entities are ineffective in the wake of other entities' closed chakras, blockages. it says that 5d entity and on is a co creator, despite noting that the ticket out from 3d is love. either love of all, or love of only self.

it is not spiritual only, talking about the oneness of existence, and how everything is one and whatnot. it gives out directly usable technical information. pyramids, queen's chamber, king's room. a sufficiently balanced entity is being a portable king's room. how to disrupt the violet ray of an entity and try to balance its chakras, unblock blockages, heal it. remember that anything used for healing can be used for breaking. it also gives immense amount of info regarding archetypical mind of this logos.

how much mileage do you think it is left to being able to create lifeforms ? pyramids given, energy information given, archetypical mind of logos given ?

....................................

that gives our second angle of approach ; ra material is not for those who are not needing, not seeking, or not wanting to take the responsibility of it. if an entity is reading Ra books, s/he should already have done the metaphorical 'death and rebirth' choice in his/her mind, dedicating himself or herself to seeking that kind of information. leave aside being here.

actually, being here may be more secure for an entity because there are other people who actually can remedy some of the impact of the information in the books because they may have lived the same experiences before. while alone, its you and the books. and whatever kind of link opens to the subconscious, or any other kind of channel that can do anything, in whichever way its possible.

unfortunately, there seem to be many people who have not done this death and rebirth choice. for many, it seems to be a kind of hobby, a way to feel some needed energies, a curiosity, or an extension of the existing love-subject-only spiritual literature/channelings. there is nothing wrong in that, except that there are times in which they are unfortunately attempting to prevent the teach/learning of advanced information because they want their biases to be accepted as paramount, or want them to be included, or want them to be the basis, or want them in anywhere in the framework.

they are wanting their views to be accepted, instead of their own selves be accepted. and, they are expecting others to change their views to suit with their own biases. it is not only wrong, its also spiritually unwise - anything they prevent successfully from being shared, knowingly or unknowingly, will become an inertia for them to fix. directly or indirectly. with all its consequences.

this goes in conjunction with the first angle, and they reinforce the other.

in actuality, anyone is responsible with any choice they make. as per the law of attraction and law of responsibility, if someone is here, s/he is responsible with his/her choices. and all their consequences. s/he is responsible himself/herself if what s/he reads in Ra text or here engages in any kind of paranormal experience that may not be so desirable for himself/herself, responsible for being able and advanced enough to be able to discern any truth that resonates to him/her, than anything that does not, or any kind of phoney information or condescending, patronizing, patriarchical or paternal sounding, belovingly coercing kind of views/communique, or those who reinforce existing societal biases by bundling them with love or knowledge - actually any kind of minimum requirement and dedication for going on an advanced journey.

it is not the responsibility of anyone else, in regard to this second point.

tho, actually, these merry wanderers probably already have sufficient protection from whatever sources that are aiding them in their journey, and therefore will be protected from any kind of extreme results, unless they are actually sufficiently advanced inside to be held responsible and to do things by knowing them. so, this would reduce the second angle to the biases/conditionings preventing advanced seekers from seeking issue.

third, there is the spiritual 'legality' issue.

if we take Ra's material, any entity that has incarnated through the veil and penetrated the veil is free to do anything with it. it doesnt become an infringement, if one does it by incarnating, and penetrating the veil. else, the activities of all wanderers in the 200 year long wanderer wave, and all the activities past and present of the 65 million + wanderers incarnated circa 1980 (and probably on, more and more) would be infringement. and, the very fact that the Ra material being published in godknowshowmany countries, would be also infringing beyond imagination.

(continued)

thusly, anything that happens here, regardless of who does it, and how they do it, is legitimate in the understanding/plan of this locale, apparently. orions got past the veil through an open portal, that came up randomly. wanderers penetrated the veil and gave out messages. some adepts remembered atlantean trainings and exploited them. or used them for good. (cayce readings)

therefore apparently there are no issues in regard to this, as long as the person had went through incarnation process and went past the veil by any means.

four, 'infringement' in my standards

my standards are too high, and maybe infringement is the wrong word here. or maybe, this logos's standards are too low. i think that any choice made affects everyone else, any information shared changes a lot of things, not only in the short run, but in the long run, towards eternity. there is no escaping that, no forgiveness no karma, no other kind of thing. cause results in effect and effect is another cause.

thus, the channeling ll group did with Ra, ra giving them information in a non infringing manner (in regard to this locale's standards), all those bartholomews, carlos castenadas, silver birches, edgar cayces, this that, all those material, all the channelings that have been done and all the information has been given out for any reason, changed the continuum. technology given, tesla's inventions, internet, the transistor, anything.

there is no dodging that. there is no evading the effects and results of any action.

..............

this is another angle ;

there is no 'free will' or anything like that. all that matters is which cause-effect chain one wants to take on the responsibility of, and in what manner. this is the extent of free will.

therefore, anything is an 'infringement' in my standards.

positions of anyone aiding or participating in these discussions here, channelings there, doing any kind of work

as per the above angle, everything will have consequences. anyone participating or aiding or providing for such discussions as we do here, or publishing Ra material, or recommending it to anyone, or participating any kind of work anywhere should be fully ready to accept all its consequences.

..............

the ideal would be not to have this veil, the seeds (entities) of any given logos grow up in 3d under the influxes of their own logos that they came out from, with strong connection to their own higher selves, therefore seeing their own biases, preferences deep down inside themselves and navigating their route as thus, efficiently and effectively. there should have been no extra interference like any kind of measures, wanderers incarnating, 'plans' implemented to do anything, spread any kind of message, philosophy or anything else.

the practical reality is, a veil was put into place to prevent 'infringement' from any kind of influx (and ironically very own higher self of the entity too), however it then came up such that the veil was turned into a bullet ridden bucket with all the 'plans' that were allowed to be implemented by various external and well meaning sources, as well as rape by ill intending sources, also wanderers coming in and incarnating and doing A LOT of things. ironically in the end the situation have become such that, the veil became a mechanism that prevents connection with an entity's own higher self very effectively, but, allows all kinds of other influxes and influences due to the above events. unintended, unexpected, but the practical consequence. this is maybe a much bigger infringement on any kind of free will, than a nonveiled situation was.

five - the imminency

time is up. the game is afoot. it is over... there is 1.5 years approx. to the full alignment of the planet to 4d vibrations in 2011 winter solstice, according to what quo says. even if we didnt take quo for this, the time Ra talked about as 'approximately 30 years' is almost up. give, take 1-2 years at most. even if we didnt know that, we have a lot of people waking up, or being woken up, as you can see in the society, and very specifically, from the stories people share in this forum, every other day.

this means that, 4d energy, which is something that causes thoughts to become things, the opening stages of magical, will be flowing in probably unhampered.

it is not certain that, what will happen to the veil. some expect it to pop and go away immediately just like that, but that is highly unlikely. if one remembers what Ra said about how entities who are not used to facing their own selves may go mad when facing the 4d energy, and also the fact that sudden lifting of the veil would be very tolling for any entity that is on this planet regardless of their density (4,5,6 or above) due to the sudden change, and considering there are 7 billion entities on this planet, it comes out clear that it would be a gamble to pop the veil open just like that.

very probably, the veil will go away gradually, and especially according to the will and desire of the entities who can make it go away for themselves. it will be easier to penetrate the veil as time goes on, for those who want it to happen. this will give time for the 3d entities who cant face themselves yet the time to live out and die, and 4d and over entities the gradual opening so that they wont meet a sudden shock due to whatever reason.

but, in either cases, there is STILL going to be problems. many problems if veil suddenly pops out, and gradual, constant problems if it slowly goes away. the entities incarnated will have to deal with this. especially the ones who are into spiritual studies, awakening, and had done some mileage on their work. the nature of problems/issues any entity can face, is total guesswork and unique probably to many groups or people or settings. however, it is highly possible that they will face these problems. the least of problems we can easily guess is the dormant, dominant biases, conditionings of the current societal mind, and the orange tint of the planetary consciousness. whatever is causing that orange tint ...

so, it is very important that anyone who can, should study advanced information earnestly, so that they can not only be stable and in the know when the time comes, and also can help others.

this is the final angle i cant think of as of now. its probably important because of the peculiar and uncommon backstory of this planet's experience.

[βαθμιαίος]

Some thoughts:

I'm not exactly sure what Ra meant by "learning for" a student. The quotes you gave, GLB, are both to questions/answers about the tarot/archetypical mind, which was an area that Ra considered extremely powerful/dangerous. For example, "[w]hen the archetype is translated without regard for magical propriety into the manifested daily actions of an individual the greatest distortions may take place and great infringement upon the free will of others is possible."

Ra defined free will as "the Creator will know Itself," and their desire to avoid learning for Don seems to be congruent with their desire to avoid infringing on his free will in his exploration of the archetypical mind. He had penetrated the outer teachings and was exploring the form-building realms of the mind. At that level, thoughts are things. If Ra told him their thoughts, they would be taking his right to build his own thoughts, forms, and relationship to the archetypical mind. At that level, just because something works for Ra doesn't mean it works for Don. He is the Creator, he gets to know himself. Telling him how things are at that level would take away his right to create them himself.

To the question of the thread: the rules that apply for Ra in the area of the archetypical mind would also apply to a third-density adept. The master must not learn for the student in this area; it doesn't matter if the master is an incarnate third-density or a channeled sixth-density being.

This has been mentioned and hinted at in the thread already, but the fact that we're not aware of similar information having been brought through does not mean it hasn't been. The mystery schools reserve much for higher-level initiates who have committed not to reveal it except to other initiates.

Some (possibly) relevant quotes:

"Clues, we may offer. Explanation is infringement." (Think parables.)

"There is great danger in the use of the will as the personality becomes stronger, for it may be used even subconsciously in ways reducing the polarity of the entity."

"To take an entity before it is ready and offer it the scepter of magical power is to infringe in an unbalanced manner."

"There are, we consider, things which are not efficacious to tell you due to possible infringement upon your free will. Entities of the Confederation have done this in the past."

Finally, this quote may not be exactly relevant, but as I read it it seemed to me that it was describing the approaches of GLB and unity100:

18.6 Questioner: Basically I would say that to infringe upon the free will of another entity would be the basic thing never to do under the Law of One. Can you state any other breaking of the Law of One than this basic rule?

Ra: I am Ra. As one proceeds from the primal distortion of free will, one proceeds to the understanding of the focal points of intelligent energy which have created the intelligences or the ways of a particular mind/body/spirit complex in its environment, both what you would call natural and what you would call man-made. Thus, the distortions to be avoided are those which do not take into consideration the distortions of the focus of energy of love/light, or shall we say, the Logos of this particular sphere or density. These include the lack of understanding of the needs of the natural environment, the needs of other-selves’ mind/body/spirit complexes. These are many due to the various distortions of man-made complexes in which the intelligence and awareness of entities themselves have chosen a way of using the energies available.

(This paragraph reminds me of unity100) Thus, what would be an improper distortion with one entity is proper with another. We can suggest an attempt to become aware of the other-self as self and thus do that action which is needed by other-self, understanding from the other-self’s intelligence and awareness. In many cases this does not involve the breaking of the distortion of free will into a distortion or fragmentation called infringement. However, it is a delicate matter to be of service, and compassion, sensitivity, and an ability to empathize are helpful in avoiding the distortions of man-made intelligence and awareness.

(This paragraph reminds me of GLB)The area or arena called the societal complex is an arena in which there are no particular needs for care for it is the prerogative/honor/duty of those in the particular planetary sphere to act according to their free will for the attempted aid of the social complex.

Thus, you have two simple directives: awareness of the intelligent energy expressed in nature, awareness of the intelligent energy expressed in self to be shared when it seems appropriate by the entity with the social complex, and you have one infinitely subtle and various set of distortions of which you may be aware; that is, distortions with respect to self and other-selves not concerning free will but concerning harmonious relationships and service to others as other-selves would most benefit.

[Steppingfeet]

Hey, βαθμιαίος, great post! I'd like to respond but spent the last of my life energy on the behemoth below. I'll try to respond tomorrow. In the meantime....

Dear Unity100,

GLB wrote: If I remember correctly, Ra never said that wanderers have greater access to information than do natives to third density. Can you direct me to where in the Law of One Ra says this?

Unity100 wrote: this piece is not from about Ra. this is my own conclusion, […] my conclusion is, and i think rightly so too, because wanderers have bazillions of years in between their belts working on, in and with quite delicate aspects of existence, if they havent particularly limited themselves heavily not to be able to do so, the should have easier time penetrating the veil.

and it is probably so, because from the percentages Ra tells us about the differing ranks of awareness to their situation, wanderers seem to be starting already with some kind of penetration out of the box. had there been no penetration, they would already start with perfect fit within the societal mind as they are born.

I concur about wanderers having bazillions of years of experience under their belt, but I don't see how accumulated experience would be available to them such that penetrating the veil would be easier. In the excerpt below, Ra defines the extent to which the forgetting process can be penetrated.

65.19 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=65&ss=1#19
The forgetting process can be penetrated to the extent of the Wanderer remembering what it is and why it is upon the planetary sphere. However, it would be an infringement if Wanderers penetrated the forgetting so far as to activate the more dense bodies and thus be able to live, shall we say, in a god-like manner. This would not be proper for those who have chosen to serve.

Two things result from this remembering: 1) That the wanderer is a wanderer. 2) Why the wanderer is on Earth.

It is exactly this remembering which Ra also discusses in the percentages of differing ranks of awareness of their situation that you mention above. The percentages they give do not, in my thinking, necessarily indicate that the wanderer, because of its vast pool of experience, has penetrated the veil more easily than the third-density native.

On the contrary, there are I am sure millions of native third-density entities who naturally, like the wanderer, remember something about their past lives, perhaps a specific lifetime, or a particular event within a lifetime, or a sense that lived in ancient Rome or harvested guano in New Guinea.

The wanderer, yes, has millions of years of experience. Their contract also required that the put those millions of years of experience into a locked box, placed on a shelf in a dark corner that is out of reach and out of view.

Unity100 wrote:it is also highly possible that most of these wanderers go to scientific or spiritual pursuits. […] actually, the very factor making wanderers such easy thinkers and inventors should be the closer ties to the roots of the mind itself.

So you are saying that the fact that wanderers (at least those named in the Law of One) tend to pursue scientific and/or spiritually oriented paths is evidence of the fact that the wanderer has easier access to subconscious information?

I would disagree here. What you see manifesting is, I believe, simply pre-incarnational programming. This operates the same in the native third-density entity who pursues a life path in accordance with their own pre-incarnational programming without perhaps consciously knowing why they follow such a path during their incarnation.

Unity100 wrote: firstly, we dont have sufficient information to talk about what kind of information atlantean students, egyptian students and south american students received. these are unknowns to us, we only know some about the late work of Ra in egypt with the tarot cards in order to teach the Law of One. this was way after the atlantean episode.

Agreed. So then we add an asterisk to my previous statement about their being no other source of information similar to that which was channeled by the L/L group in the early 80’s which says:

*As far as we know.

Unity100 wrote: secondly, there is this - it seems that whatever sources are governing this planet lately, have been under the opinion that they should use already existing thought, belief patterns existing on the world in order to teach/learn. ie,

What gave you this idea that the prevailing Confederation policy is to use existing terrestrial systems of thought?

Unity100 wrote: there are already religions , a wanderer incarnates, s/he awakens, and then starts to disseminate information/philosophy within the framework of that religion.

This may or may not happen in the life pattern of a wanderer. You describe the situation though as if this is part of some larger plan enacted by the Confederation in which multiple wanderers played a pre-coordinated part.

In my understanding, Ra divides the function and purpose of the wanderer along these three broad lines:

1) Lightening the planetary vibration through the doubling affect of love and light
2) Serving as “beacon” or “shepherd”
3) Offering the outer gifts of service unique to the individual wanderer

65.12 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=65&ss=1#12

65.11 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=65&ss=1#11

The first and most important two roles of the wanderer indicate not that the wanderer is here to disseminate “information” (though an individual wanderer may certainly do so), but rather to disseminate energy, to open the heart, breathe, and allow the Creator’s love and light through.

Unity100 wrote: a good example of this is, how various wanderers have reinforced various religious hierarchical organizations, giving it more authority and power through the work they have done. their good deeds, miracles were used by these organizations. there was some good done, but, these led to the hierarchy gaining more power.

Are you referring to saints and notable religious figures within Roman Catholic orders? Though certainly corrupt and mixed in polarity, Catholicism I would argue is not without virtue. It being the monolithic institution of its day, devoted (ostensibly, at least) to the worship of and devotion to God, I am not surprised that Creator-oriented wanderers were attracted to work within its structures. Where else could one live as a monk or a nun in a framework which supported the contemplative life?

Further, it seems to me that you speak of these hierarchical organizations as if they are purely service-to-self in orientation. In my opinion, the churches of all religions have been forces of mixed polarity.

Unity100 wrote: tho this would be a very advanced topic in itself, i would say that there is actually no free will.

I would agree in the sense that there is no anything. There is no individual entity, no multiple entities, no space, no time, no Logos, no Third Distortion, no Second Distortion, even no First Distortion.

Of what relevance does this have to the question of infringement, though? We could discuss anything under the sun which could be brought to an abrupt end by saying, “In actuality, that which we are discussing does not exist.”

You would kind of make for a bad date in that regard, Unity100. : )

Unity100 wrote: basically, if existence is an infinite sea, it is impossible for any focus point's vibrations, waves, not to affect the whole picture itself, and all other focal points.

Good thought. I like how you put that.

Unity100 wrote: and when i look at the concepts of higher self, parallel universes, and mind/body/spirit complex totality as a higher self of the 6d higher self, all it seems to me that the whole question is which part of the fragmented ultimate totality will shoulder the burden of living what part of the total experience to be lived ; one may be taking the responsibility to live in a negative experience set, one a positive, one may be taking on the path of nonveiled 3, 4 to direct 8 d route etc.

That may be.

I’ll get abstract with you! I tend to see all the manifested, illusory, created material as energy in motion. Everything is moving, bumping into one another, affecting one another. Karma is in motion, past conditioning and tendencies are in motion, thinking is in motion, actions are in motion, galaxies are in motion, incarnation itself is in motion. It’s all a moving, shifting, interacting, infinite sea of holographic portions of the One in motion.

How these moving energies interact is the infinite variety of the Creator watching itself live. Will a rock be worn to nothing by a river? Will a family of birds survive the storm? Will this individual choose love or fear? Will this complicated set of collective ideas and emotions work with or collide with the complicated set of collective ideas and emotions of the neighboring culture?

But there is something that is not moving. There is a constant. A permanent. A real. And all that moves, moves within Its awareness. And that awareness is present in both you and I, looking out through our eyes here and now. The whole dramatic and grand play, EVERYTHING, is happening in that awareness, in that unity which, because it contains all things, cannot abhor anything – that which we call compassion or universal love. The moving energies, set in motion by free will, are embraced in this non-dual awareness.

Those moving energies are possessed of free will. In the less conscious entities – those of first and second densities, that free will is, at first, seemingly random, then somewhat directed though unconsciously so, and then free will is seen for the resource that it is and is used and directed by the conscious entity.

And the whole time, there is an awareness within that is unchanged, that is watching and embracing and loving the whole play. It is unmoved and, I guess you could say, without will as we would conceive it. It IS.

Unity100 wrote: this, is just a simple case example in which how the message of wanderers, even if planned very carefully and even having support of a whole societal complex behind it (remember the case of yahweh and the annunaki business), can easily be cramped by elites and rendered to their own end.

Definitely. According to the Law of One, Earth is a battleground between positive and negative forces. In such an environment, even the purest positive truth will be corrupted and utilized by negative forces and vice versa.

Unity100 wrote: its not philosophical only, delivering obscure and generic, broad stuff that you can fit anything into, like 'your poo is zen'. it straightly, plainly, directly tells what it wants to tell. it talks about creation as it came to be from what Ra has learned, and it talks about paths and non paths, and what was before those paths.

LOL on the Zen allusion! And I loved your assessment of the Law of One books in your following paragraphs, cataloguing its many topics of discussion and deriving meaning from the existence of the various multi-layered, multi-dimensional, multi-faceted, multi-purposed information.

Unity100 wrote: how much mileage do you think it is left to being able to create lifeforms ? pyramids given, energy information given, archetypical mind of logos given ?

Is this rhetorical or are you asking me something? Either way, I’m not understanding the questions.

Unity100 wrote: that gives our second angle of approach ; ra material is not for those who are not needing, not seeking, or not wanting to take the responsibility of it. if an entity is reading Ra books, s/he should already have done the metaphorical 'death and rebirth' choice in his/her mind, dedicating himself or herself to seeking that kind of information. leave aside being here.

Why should there be a “should” in there? Why a qualifying criteria?

I would add refinement to your thought here by saying that perhaps one who comes to the Law of One having already experienced the metaphorical (and metaphysical) “death and rebirth” will find great utility.

Either way, the entity who has gone through such a process, once or multiple times, should in the general sense be able to derive aid for the spiritual journey in the same way the less initiated entity does.

Unity100 wrote: actually, being here may be more secure for an entity because there are other people who actually can remedy some of the impact of the information in the books because they may have lived the same experiences before. while alone, its you and the books. and whatever kind of link opens to the subconscious, or any other kind of channel that can do anything, in whichever way its possible.

Where is “here”? The forums?

I definitely agree about the benefit of fellow seekers. Though the spiritual quest is ultimately a solo one, friends along the journey are invaluable and, in actuality, accelerate and catalyze the journey.

Unity100 wrote: unfortunately, there seem to be many people who have not done this death and rebirth choice. for many, it seems to be a kind of hobby, a way to feel some needed energies, a curiosity, or an extension of the existing love-subject-only spiritual literature/channelings. there is nothing wrong in that, except that there are times in which they are unfortunately attempting to prevent the teach/learning of advanced information because they want their biases to be accepted as paramount, or want them to be included, or want them to be the basis, or want them in anywhere in the framework.

I have existed at what might be termed a “spiritual center” for seven years now and have had the opportunity to cross paths with many spiritually oriented seekers, the majority being students of the Law of One. I have noticed that there are certainly gradations to the intensity of focus and desire on the mystical journey. Some pursue it more wholeheartedly than others. This is to be expected.

But what you are saying sounds as if you are issuing a complaint. Do I understand you correctly? If so, do you have a specific target for this complaint? Are you saying that this is happening on the forums?

Unity100 wrote: they are wanting their views to be accepted, instead of their own selves be accepted. and, they are expecting others to change their views to suit with their own biases. it is not only wrong, its also spiritually unwise - anything they prevent successfully from being shared, knowingly or unknowingly, will become an inertia for them to fix. directly or indirectly. with all its consequences.

Maybe you’re right about the consequences which such actions have for others, maybe you’re wrong. But why so concerned? Isn’t the self our domain and jurisdiction? Work on the self, I say, work on the self and let others be as they are, so long as they are not infringing, or, in the case of the forums, violating the guidelines.

Unity100 wrote: in actuality, anyone is responsible with any choice they make. as per the law of attraction and law of responsibility, if someone is here, s/he is responsible with his/her choices. and all their consequences. s/he is responsible himself/herself if what s/he reads in Ra text or here engages in any kind of paranormal experience that may not be so desirable for himself/herself, responsible for being able and advanced enough to be able to discern any truth that resonates to him/her, than anything that does not, or any kind of phoney information or condescending, patronizing, patriarchical or paternal sounding, belovingly coercing kind of views/communique, or those who reinforce existing societal biases by bundling them with love or knowledge - actually any kind of minimum requirement and dedication for going on an advanced journey.

tho, actually, these merry wanderers probably already have sufficient protection from whatever sources that are aiding them in their journey, and therefore will be protected from any kind of extreme results, unless they are actually sufficiently advanced inside to be held responsible and to do things by knowing them. so, this would reduce the second angle to the biases/conditionings preventing advanced seekers from seeking issue.

I’m not quite getting what you’re saying in these two paragraphs. Seriously, I’ve reread them a few times and just as it seems meaning begins to dawn on my feeble brain, it dissipates. Could you rephrase and sum up these two paragraphs? I apologize but but I’m just not getting it.

Unity100 wrote: if we take Ra's material, any entity that has incarnated through the veil and penetrated the veil is free to do anything with it. it doesnt become an infringement, if one does it by incarnating, and penetrating the veil. else, the activities of all wanderers in the 200 year long wanderer wave, and all the activities past and present of the 65 million + wanderers incarnated circa 1980 (and probably on, more and more) would be infringement. and, the very fact that the Ra material being published in godknowshowmany countries, would be also infringing beyond imagination.

Haha!! Finally! I’ve read many interesting thoughts from you in this post, but nothing which directly spoke to my question which you were ostensibly responding to.

SO, your conclusion and response to my question is that the veiled third-density entity is not in the same position as Ra in terms of being able to infringe on others by sharing information.

Why, I agree.

And thanks for the cardio, Unity100. : )

Love/Light,
GLB

[unity100]

i still dont have much energy due to having come back from out of town. i cant pump energy up to delicate subjects still despite waking up. when/if i can gather myself today, i will first complete my first post, then i will respond to others.

[unity100]

original post updated. i will check other replies.

---

What I am trying to get at is this: Is the human being in the same position as Ra? Does this human need to withhold information for the same reason that Ra withheld information?

this goes way beyond the context of 'information'. innumerable entities are doing this kind of learning in place for other entities by identifying with them and living in dependence with them. families, friends, and so on. however this is a very long talk in itself and a separate subject.

as for your direct point,

regardless of what it may cause, an entity should try to share as much information as s/he can, as a nature of the blue ray principles.

but, there are minor considerations, like, if the information you are going to share is going to be detrimental to your safety, or, others' safety, there are concerns of wisdom.

and naturally one should not go giving out messages to masses. you go to a rural village, and start talking about Ra material in the village square. grocers, cobblers stand by. what business do they have with it, and what are you doing in the middle of that village .....

then there are delicate considerations. as one works on and gets more and more advanced in this, s/he can easily sense what kind of information is beneficial and needed, and what should be withheld, while talking with someone. this is also a social skill. but, it is also an internal knowing. stronger connections to the depths of roots of mind, the easier the knowing and the flow.

but, i personally dont think one can get to this point, without actually sharing information and doing blue ray activity.

You're right, there is also The Daily Show and Calvin and Hobbes which are useful sources of information. : )

daily show is quite an important source of information indeed. and, jon seems to have quite a strong blue ray activity.

Unity100 is contending that, there being no boundaries, the human can access any and all information if the appropriate conditions have been satisfied. I am contending that, while I essentially agree, the enlightened human at the same time does not enjoy the "overview" (for lack of a better term) that Ra does. *If* the human, of its own faculties of awareness, could see what Ra sees, why has nothing even remotely similar to the Law of One appeared in the past five or so thousand years of recorded history?

such information appeared. but, only like in a bullet ridden bucket example. an entity, or a wanderer, had some chance or premeditated connection to subconscious, and got past the veil. gleamed some information. wrote it down or shared it. wanderers came, and gleamed more information and shared them. all of these became parts of the culture they came to, and the rest of the stuff was made up with what was locally believed before, or what was tradition before, and after. the info gleamed was put into the framework of existing stuff too.

so, in the end we have a lot of stuff in a lot of cultures, containing such information but also a lot of hullabaloo too. ranging from the book of the dead of tibet to various religions.

ra material has been a thorough plan it seems. firstly, it was done after a wave of spiritual energy influx (probably due to the wanderers again) 1960s. secondly, apparently (as we understand from past life mentions of the ll group from what Ra says) not only ll group but other wanderers also were incarnated to facilitate this plan, and not only once too. (for preparations). ra wandered about a lot of other groups and this group met the conditions.

basically we can say that Ra material was probably one of the most complete, coherent and already-put-together direct information that was brought to this planet (in the last 25,000 years at least).

You raise a good point: the proclivity of enlightened teachers to speak through parable and metaphor so as to veil their message, making its true meaning available only to those with the eyes to see and ears to hear. Does this, then, point to the possibility of a human being able to infringe upon the free will of another by sharing information?

heh. it actually points to the inevitability of creating a dysfunctional, problematic 3d planet which can blow itself at any time point unless hordes of wanderers do not incarnate to prevent it through innumerable means. giving out muddled information, in an experience which is already muddled by some veil contraption.

[unity100]

I concur about wanderers having bazillions of years of experience under their belt, but I don't see how accumulated experience would be available to them such that penetrating the veil would be easier. In the excerpt below, Ra defines the extent to which the forgetting process can be penetrated.

remember that, despite an incarnated wanderer's body is 3d body, its soul and mind are still its own. so basically, in the mind/body/spirit complex, only the body complex changes. since the brain, the tool that focuses mind into the reality changes, it also limits their various manifestational capabilities.

wanderer is still a higher density entity. its mind probably has deeper connections to roots of mind, its spirit is still vibrating with the density of its own in its core.

leave these aside, his/her aspects have been getting in sync with the 'greater' creation for billions of years. or for too long.

but :

65.19 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=65&ss=1#19
The forgetting process can be penetrated to the extent of the Wanderer remembering what it is and why it is upon the planetary sphere. However, it would be an infringement if Wanderers penetrated the forgetting so far as to activate the more dense bodies and thus be able to live, shall we say, in a god-like manner. This would not be proper for those who have chosen to serve.

the critical point you miss here, is the fact that infringement being talked on here is the wanderer being able to activate and manifest higher bodies, and therefore being able to accomplish 'feats' per se.

this seems to be Ra's particular concern. they also note that while in egypt, if they were doing 1 unit of effect with their words, they were doing 10 units of effect with their presence, or something like that, due to their manifestation.

so, it was basically an infringement like this ; 'i dont understand or cant fathom or maybe dont want to accept what is being said, but the entity is manifesting as X (insert higher density manifestation feat here), so, i should accept'.

................

so basically its the kind of 'appearing as gods and therefore people having to accept what you say' kind of thing.

So you are saying that the fact that wanderers (at least those named in the Law of One) tend to pursue scientific and/or spiritually oriented paths is evidence of the fact that the wanderer has easier access to subconscious information?

this seems to be the case for the 200 year something wanderer wave Ra talks about. basically either ideas of equality and freedom, and technological advancement were perpetrated in that time period as far as what we know from history. also, the examples of a few wanderers we know by name fits this well. (franklin, jefferson, tesla). the aim, seems to be freeing people from enslavement, and giving them free time to be able to use their mind for things outside of surviving.

What gave you this idea that the prevailing Confederation policy is to use existing terrestrial systems of thought?

mainly history, and what i read in Ra material in regard to history. the plans of yahweh with annunaki, and then the methods they chose to fix the distortion that caused, Jehoshuah's incarnation and message, buddha, examples are many for this.

This may or may not happen in the life pattern of a wanderer. You describe the situation though as if this is part of some larger plan enacted by the Confederation in which multiple wanderers played a pre-coordinated part.

according to history, yes. probably especially with plans like yahweh did. incarnational programming may have been chosen as totally different. my understanding is, until some time recently, whatever sources are quarantining this planet were giving permission only to plans/incarnations that worked within the existing biases of the planet.

In my understanding, Ra divides the function and purpose of the wanderer along these three broad lines:

1) Lightening the planetary vibration through the doubling affect of love and light
2) Serving as “beacon” or “shepherd”
3) Offering the outer gifts of service unique to the individual wanderer

65.12 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=65&ss=1#12

65.11 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=65&ss=1#11

The first and most important two roles of the wanderer indicate not that the wanderer is here to disseminate “information” (though an individual wanderer may certainly do so), but rather to disseminate energy, to open the heart, breathe, and allow the Creator’s love and light through.

notice that these can all be done through existing biases of the society, or, outside those biases.

Are you referring to saints and notable religious figures within Roman Catholic orders? Though certainly corrupt and mixed in polarity, Catholicism I would argue is not without virtue. It being the monolithic institution of its day, devoted (ostensibly, at least) to the worship of and devotion to God, I am not surprised that Creator-oriented wanderers were attracted to work within its structures. Where else could one live as a monk or a nun in a framework which supported the contemplative life?

Further, it seems to me that you speak of these hierarchical organizations as if they are purely service-to-self in orientation. In my opinion, the churches of all religions have been forces of mixed polarity.

nothing is without virtue. even the most hardened negative society is not without virtue totally. it is questionable that an entity can reach 100% service to self polarity before having to turn about at the early stages of 6d positive even. so, even in the most negative of entities there is trace amounts of virtue.

what matters is, the end result.

in the end, organizations like catholic church has become mechanisms and bastions of control. yes they do charities, they do good deeds. but these strengthen the control of the organization in society.

as long as a societal construct, a machine, something is negative in its structure, it will continue to act negatively in the long run regardless of how much positivity you pour into it.

pouring in too much positivity will probably either break it, or force it to change its structure. then, it wont be the same structure anymore. but, this is a very inefficient method. smothering a negative construct with positivity, instead of observing that the structure is negative, and it needs to be changed from its roots, lest, the energy would go to waste. very unwise.

I would agree in the sense that there is no anything. There is no individual entity, no multiple entities, no space, no time, no Logos, no Third Distortion, no Second Distortion, even no First Distortion.

Of what relevance does this have to the question of infringement, though? We could discuss anything under the sun which could be brought to an abrupt end by saying, “In actuality, that which we are discussing does not exist.”

no, i meant not in that ultimately infinite sense, like, in infinity there exist nothing.

i mean that, all existing entities in this octave and other octaves are part of a huge collective which has a totality somewhere, and therefore choice of each is dependent on the choice of any other, and all others. infinite strings tied together at the top. therefore, the 'free will' is just a baloney. the free will veil and whatnot that is being experimented on by this and a few other logoi in this locale of the galaxy i mean.

I’ll get abstract with you! I tend to see all the manifested, illusory, created material as energy in motion. Everything is moving, bumping into one another, affecting one another. Karma is in motion, past conditioning and tendencies are in motion, thinking is in motion, actions are in motion, galaxies are in motion, incarnation itself is in motion. It’s all a moving, shifting, interacting, infinite sea of holographic portions of the One in motion.

that is a good total approach. the only thing that is missing in it maybe, is the fact that all those in that motion being conscious, and doing choices and affecting each other. rocks, entities, thoughts, everything.

How these moving energies interact is the infinite variety of the Creator watching itself live. Will a rock be worn to nothing by a river? Will a family of birds survive the storm? Will this individual choose love or fear? Will this complicated set of collective ideas and emotions work with or collide with the complicated set of collective ideas and emotions of the neighboring culture?

i would replace 'the creator' with 'we'. and i would take it as 'have we, the birds included in that 'we', decided together that the birds survive the storm ? have we, rock and the river included, decided together that the rock will be worn out by the river ? and so on.

Those moving energies are possessed of free will. In the less conscious entities – those of first and second densities, that free will is, at first, seemingly random, then somewhat directed though unconsciously so, and then free will is seen for the resource that it is and is used and directed by the conscious entity.

i very much think the first and second density entities have a totality in some distant octave. even if not in this one. or, had a totality. even in that case, they have a totality in the totality of the experiential creative culmination of this creation of this octave.

Is this rhetorical or are you asking me something? Either way, I’m not understanding the questions.

it was rhetorical. there is insane amount of information contained in Ra. maybe, they were given to give a chance to atlantean adepts that screwed up last time. just like, how tesla's info enabling the manufacture of ufo weapons is probably another chance given to maldek and atlantis people not to screw up this time.

Why should there be a “should” in there? Why a qualifying criteria?

very simple. would a person who is not willing to risk the possibility of death, or not willing to let go of the firm ground under his/her feet, become a stunt pilot ? would it be logical for that person, saying that s/he would accept no chances of death, or, s/he wants to fly, but also wants to have the firm ground under his/her feet while flying ?

it wouldnt. thus, anyone who is after Ra material should be willing to go openly as far as they can, and not to prevent anyone else who wants to go further, from going further.

Where is “here”? The forums?

yes.

I definitely agree about the benefit of fellow seekers. Though the spiritual quest is ultimately a solo one, friends along the journey are invaluable and, in actuality, accelerate and catalyze the journey.

i dont think spiritual quest is a solo one. not with the 3 aides everyone gets incarnated with, the mandatory societal complex in 4 and 6th densities, and becoming a totality in 7th. actually, i very much think that all this 'i made it', or 'i succeeded' or 'i did it on my own' things are all baloney. nothing happens without aid or supervision from everything. one cant even stay alive. considering how there are many principles governing functioning of bodies and there are being probably principles/entities governing and watching the function of these principles.

But what you are saying sounds as if you are issuing a complaint. Do I understand you correctly? If so, do you have a specific target for this complaint? Are you saying that this is happening on the forums?

it happens everywhere and this forum is no exception. the situation in this forum is much better due to care from participants and caretakers though.

Maybe you’re right about the consequences which such actions have for others, maybe you’re wrong. But why so concerned? Isn’t the self our domain and jurisdiction? Work on the self, I say, work on the self and let others be as they are, so long as they are not infringing, or, in the case of the forums, violating the guidelines.

i believe there is 'us'. the failure of someone else, is failure of self, and the failure of self, is the failure of everyone else. though we cant grab entities by the throat and make them succeed, we should maintain some level of concern for everyone, actually everything.

Unity100 wrote: in actuality, anyone is responsible with any choice they make. as per the law of attraction and law of responsibility, if someone is here, s/he is responsible with his/her choices. and all their consequences. s/he is responsible himself/herself if what s/he reads in Ra text or here engages in any kind of paranormal experience that may not be so desirable for himself/herself, responsible for being able and advanced enough to be able to discern any truth that resonates to him/her, than anything that does not, or any kind of phoney information or condescending, patronizing, patriarchical or paternal sounding, belovingly coercing kind of views/communique, or those who reinforce existing societal biases by bundling them with love or knowledge - actually any kind of minimum requirement and dedication for going on an advanced journey.

tho, actually, these merry wanderers probably already have sufficient protection from whatever sources that are aiding them in their journey, and therefore will be protected from any kind of extreme results, unless they are actually sufficiently advanced inside to be held responsible and to do things by knowing them. so, this would reduce the second angle to the biases/conditionings preventing advanced seekers from seeking issue.

I’m not quite getting what you’re saying in these two paragraphs. Seriously, I’ve reread them a few times and just as it seems meaning begins to dawn on my feeble brain, it dissipates. Could you rephrase and sum up these two paragraphs? I apologize but but I’m just not getting it.

i tried to mean various things about the law of responsibility. anything that these entities who are going around in Ra material like a hobby can encounter. from psychic attacks to metaphysical occurrences, this and that. any potential consequence, some of which can have quite an impact.

Haha!! Finally! I’ve read many interesting thoughts from you in this post, but nothing which directly spoke to my question which you were ostensibly responding to.

the post was not complete at the point you made this post. i noted that already at the end of my post.

SO, your conclusion and response to my question is that the veiled third-density entity is not in the same position as Ra in terms of being able to infringe on others by sharing information.

apparently, no, as long as you dont manifest a light body and start flying around.

but then again, the time is already up, energies are picking up, and that part of the show is ending, and therefore, i very much think that even these wont be an infringement in near future.

i also think that Ra is way too sensitive, and the understanding of this locale's logoi is way too contradictory in regard to this free will business :

you create a veil in order to provide a 'free will' by severing connections to higher selves and aetheral influences, but, then you have to negate that veil by various means that actually channel immense energy and information to the planetary sphere so that the experiential nexus, so that the experience can actually go on without getting destroyed by destruction of the planet. you first give some supposed free will, only to take that supposed free will back with measures that are needed to prevent total destruction of the experience.

ironically, the main group or groups that are doing that fixing, are the group or groups which were found to be 'having problems' in 6d, because they were aided by external sources during their 3d experience and had a speedy 3d experience. we are sure of the name of one of these, they are Ra. (65+million wanderers info in Ra material, and their origin). i suspect group that aided the atlanteans had also a similar aid in their 3d experience.

this is one of the reasons i conclude the failure of this veil plan.

---

i didnt merge the two posts, because these two posts are replies to blocks in posts of people that have been posted in times way too different than each other.

[Steppingfeet]

I'm not exactly sure what Ra meant by "learning for" a student.

Best i can make of it is that Ra could provide information which would short-circuit the entity's sacred right to make their own choices with incomplete and insufficient understanding, finding truth through faith alone.

The quotes you gave, GLB, are both to questions/answers about the tarot/archetypical mind, which was an area that Ra considered extremely powerful/dangerous.

Ahhh, i hadn't realized that. What you say makes sense and I could see why Ra would be even more hesitant to offer information on that particular subject.

The third excerpt I quoted though happened in session fifteen and spoke to the possibility of infringing on free will by doing the learning for another in any circumstance in which Ra was involved.

To the question of the thread: the rules that apply for Ra in the area of the archetypical mind would also apply to a third-density adept. The master must not learn for the student in this area; it doesn't matter if the master is an incarnate third-density or a channeled sixth-density being.

I agree, I think you're right about the situation of the master/student. The former should be careful so as not to do the learning for the latter, creating space for the student to find his or her own way. At the same time, I think there is a vast difference between the third-density master and Ra in terms of scope of knowledge and understanding.

"There is great danger in the use of the will as the personality becomes stronger, for it may be used even subconsciously in ways reducing the polarity of the entity."

A good reason not to offer potentially powerful knowledge or information to one who did not come by it through their own inner process of organic growth.

Finally, this quote may not be exactly relevant, but as I read it it seemed to me that it was describing the approaches of GLB and unity100:

Really good and relevant excerpts. The final one is an excerpt that's remained fairly cryptic to me. I've never been able to quite grasp what Ra is saying there.

love/light, glb

[unity100]

"There is great danger in the use of the will as the personality becomes stronger, for it may be used even subconsciously in ways reducing the polarity of the entity."

A good reason not to offer potentially powerful knowledge or information to one who did not come by it through their own inner process of organic growth.

if i approach this logically and in a philosophical manner i come up with this, despite in practice not agreeing with it for practical reasons :
...............

information, blue light, needs to be shared, when asked. that is its nature and flow. just like how it is the nature of green ray, love, to be given openly. actually, that is the case with all rays in positive path.

blue light, as with everything, belongs to infinite existence, us, as our totality as a whole. noone can, and actually should try to attempt being custodian of any information they are given. for, not only the information was not 'given' to anyone, but it was also not the entity that was given who 'discovered' that information. the information is there, because we, the infinite intelligence, the 'totality of the totalities of creation', allowed that influx to flow to wherever it was flowing towards through the given entity. it needs to be handed out without hampering, whenever the flow is up. doing otherwise, becomes a negative act, due to hampering of that particular energy center. (blue, indigo or any higher center actually. valid for all centers)

but then again, an entity may not be preferring to share a certain kind of information with a certain entity or entities, because s/he may be thinking or feeling that those entities may misuse it, and s/he doesnt want to be a part of such an experiential episode. then the entity may appeal to his/her higher self, his/her totality, or directly to infinite intelligence for that. but, my suspicion is that, as with all serious choices in life, such a choice that would change the fate of the entity or other involved entities (in regard to the life experience of the entity in that particular universe) would require the entity be balanced and powerful in violet ray enough to be able to adapt to the new energy setup that is going to happen as a result of this (in regard to his/her own mind/body/spirit complex configuration), or, by having to clog the blue ray (due to the toll that would take on the balance of the entity due to clogging).

but then again this would be too rare, since an entity that has such delicate flow of blue ray or higher ray energies would very rarely be in the 'wrong place' that s/he would come up against a situation in which the information s/he has would be 'stolen' by undesirable entities. because, having sufficient advancement to allow such delicate flow of information, would also happen simultaneously by having advanced wisdom, and all life and subconscious choices of entity would shape along accordingly. unless a huge twist of fate occurs, it becomes unlikely. and then, if such a huge twist of fate occurs, then, it means that it was meant to occur.

any kind of imbalance, would need to be balanced by the use of blue ray in the balancing fashion on the other side, just like how it seems to happen regarding green ray, more or less. thus, just like how one is not trying to withhold love because it causes some negatively inclined individuals to get disgusted and go even more negative, one should also not withhold his/her blue light because the similar might happen, and information may be used for any 'undesirable' purpose.

actually, in most cases, if the entity which is going to hear the advanced information is not advanced enough, all you would end up would be to make yourself appear like a fool in their eyes, or madman. and on the other hand, an entity which is sufficiently advanced enough to have sufficient higher chakra activity and power, and balance, would find other ways to get that information, if it is not given.

---

i also would like to add that, many spiritual seekers would have no qualms in sharing information, due to not having advanced in their way because of the level of their dedication. for most it remains as a hobby.

others who advance enough, seem to be soon integrating with any kind of higher aspect governing their evolution (higher self, totality, infinite intelligence, or any kind of societal complex, or any other kind of group), or groups aiding them, and therefore any kind of information flow ends up already pre-governed.

[Steppingfeet]

Dear Unity100,

Unity100 wrote: so, it is very important that anyone who can, should study advanced information earnestly, so that they can not only be stable and in the know when the time comes, and also can help others.

I certainly agree that studying “advanced” information can be a great boon to the student of spiritual evolution. Information certainly has consequences for us, and for those with whom we interact as a result of the information we have digested, and for anyone who encounters the information and reacts one way or the other to it.

However I believe you place too much emphasis on information. Take this excerpt into consideration:

17.2 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=17&ss=1#2
Ra: I am Ra. It is impossible to help another being directly. It is only possible to make catalyst available in whatever form, the most important being the radiation of realization of oneness with the Creator from the self, less important being information such as we share with you.

You and I both hold the Law of One material in very high esteem, considering it some of the most “advanced” material available to humanity. Yet Ra situations information, even that which they share, below the energetic radiation of being, below radiating the realization of oneness.

So if I were to say what others “should” be doing, I would say they need to discover new and deeper ways to open their hearts. I know that love is not the be-all-end-all of spiritual evolution, but love is at the center of all vertical, upward movement and, while information can certainly aid the entity in learning to love, the actual learning of love takes place completely outside the domain and scope of information. It happens in the moment through practice, fearlessness, and in relating to other selves.

Unity100 wrote: regardless of what it may cause, an entity should try to share as much information as s/he can, as a nature of the blue ray principles.

but, there are minor considerations, like, if the information you are going to share is going to be detrimental to your safety, or, others' safety, there are concerns of wisdom.

and naturally one should not go giving out messages to masses. you go to a rural village, and start talking about Ra material in the village square. grocers, cobblers stand by. what business do they have with it, and what are you doing in the middle of that village .....

then there are delicate considerations. as one works on and gets more and more advanced in this, s/he can easily sense what kind of information is beneficial and needed, and what should be withheld, while talking with someone. this is also a social skill. but, it is also an internal knowing. stronger connections to the depths of roots of mind, the easier the knowing and the flow.

I concur wholeheartedly that one should attempt to share their truth as you say in the first paragraph. An excerpt to this end:

17.30 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=17&ss=1#30
The best way of service to others is the constant attempt to seek to share the love of the Creator as it is known to the inner self. This involves self knowledge and the ability to open the self to the other-self without hesitation. This involves, shall we say, radiating that which is the essence or the heart of the mind/body/spirit complex.

BUT, as you go onto point out, one should do so with wisdom, with an assessment of the circumstance and a consideration for the ramifications of the sharing. This is certainly wisdom applied to love, how and when and to whom to share, and what to share, and in what intensity and in what frequency.

And, btw, thank you for exercising that blue ray and choosing to replying directly to the points raised in our discussion. Your original post to this thread contained great swaths of material whose relevance to the thread I could not easily discern.

Unity100 wrote: daily show is quite an important source of information indeed. and, jon seems to have quite a strong blue ray activity.

NOW I *know* you are an advanced soul. : )

Unity100 wrote: ra material has been a thorough plan it seems. firstly, it was done after a wave of spiritual energy influx (probably due to the wanderers again) 1960s. secondly, apparently (as we understand from past life mentions of the ll group from what Ra says) not only ll group but other wanderers also were incarnated to facilitate this plan, and not only once too. (for preparations). ra wandered about a lot of other groups and this group met the conditions.

One can always trace back a sequence of events which made possible that which is occurring in the present. Music, for instance. You could say that modern day gangbanger rap would not have been possible were it not for the hip-hop of the 80’s, which would not have been possible were it not for the R&B of earlier times, itself not possible were it not for the jazz of even earlier decades. (Someone with more musical knowledge could construct a *much* better analogy than I just did.)

Point being, just because there are a string of causal factors preceding an event does not necessarily mean that there was a master plan in place. As you said, everything ties into everything, one thing leading to the next, but that does not prove predestination or a plan other than that which is affected by the upward spiraling light.

Which is not to say that there wasn’t a plan for the Law of One material to manifest! There may well have been. Just that the string of events you listed does not prove the plan.

Unity100 wrote: basically we can say that Ra material was probably one of the most complete, coherent and already-put-together direct information that was brought to this planet (in the last 25,000 years at least).

That’s my understanding*.

*as far as we know

Unity100 wrote: heh. it actually points to the inevitability of creating a dysfunctional, problematic 3d planet which can blow itself at any time point unless hordes of wanderers do not incarnate to prevent it through innumerable means. giving out muddled information, in an experience which is already muddled by some veil contraption.

I understood the waves of wanderers as happening in general to help with harvest. I didn’t consider that waves of wanderers may have also incarnated just to keep the planet viable before the harvest, that is, to help third density not blow itself up. Definitely feasible!

Unity100 wrote: remember that, despite an incarnated wanderer's body is 3d body, its soul and mind are still its own. so basically, in the mind/body/spirit complex, only the body complex changes.

Unity100, I really think you’re mistaken here. Third-density entities, as you know, are under the influence of the veil. The veil is a function of the mind complex (and naturally has consequences for the body complex). So there are most definitely changes to the mind complex of the wanderer as the veil descends and becomes rather opaque (though semi-permeable).

Unity100 wrote: wanderer is still a higher density entity. its mind probably has deeper connections to roots of mind, its spirit is still vibrating with the density of its own in its core.

The “wanderer” is that entity within third density. The wanderer, by definition, has (for a time span) given up its identity almost completely in order to be of service. It thus becomes a wanderer through this sacrifice. If the sixth-density entity remained a sixth-density entity, serving Earth as a sixth-density entity, with sixth-density knowledge, it would not be a wanderer. Such a case would be like an American doing Peace Corp service in Sudan who always retains his citizenship, his bank account, his vaccinations, and anything else that separates him from the Sudanese, and does not become a Sudanese.

Were the Peace Corp like being a wanderer, the American would have a memory wipe, losing all sense of being an American and everything that came with the American identity - family and friends included - and somehow be re-born to a Sudanese woman, becoming fully Sudanese. Deep, deep down in the mind, on the other side of the veil would exist the real identity along with the desire to serve.

It would only be hoped that that desire to serve would be of such strength and purity that it would come through the Sudanese incarnation and be put into effect.

65.19 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=65&ss=1#19

Unity100 wrote: this seems to be Ra's particular concern. they also note that while in egypt, if they were doing 1 unit of effect with their words, they were doing 10 units of effect with their presence, or something like that, due to their manifestation.

so, it was basically an infringement like this ; 'i dont understand or cant fathom or maybe dont want to accept what is being said, but the entity is manifesting as X (insert higher density manifestation feat here), so, i should accept'.

Nice summation!

Bring4th_GLB wrote: So you are saying that the fact that wanderers (at least those named in the Law of One) tend to pursue scientific and/or spiritually oriented paths is evidence of the fact that the wanderer has easier access to subconscious information?

Unity100 responded: this seems to be the case for the 200 year something wanderer wave Ra talks about. basically either ideas of equality and freedom, and technological advancement were perpetrated in that time period as far as what we know from history. also, the examples of a few wanderers we know by name fits this well. (franklin, jefferson, tesla). the aim, seems to be freeing people from enslavement, and giving them free time to be able to use their mind for things outside of surviving.

Okay, let’s go over this one again if you don’t mind.

Your basic assertion is this: wanderers incarnated in waves in the 1700’s with the general mission of offering a philosophy which upholds the freedom of the individual. The basic reason behind this mission was to free entities from the drudgery of their day in order that they might have time and opportunity to contemplate spiritual evolution.

I agree. But if I understand you correctly, you are saying that the fact that these wanderers came and fulfilled their function (however imperfectly) means that wanderers have greater access to their subconscious minds. Right?

If so, I am disagreeing on the basis that what you are witnessing is the wanderer following through with pre-incarnational programming in the course of their incarnation. Third-density natives do the same thing every day. In partnership with their higher selves they, prior to incarnation, made choices about their own missions they wanted to fulfill on planet Earth while incarnate, missions that may be coordinated with a larger plan of similar-minded souls. When and if they do follow through with that pre-incarnational programming, it does not necessarily mean that they have access to the subconscious that others do not have in potential.

GLB previously wrote: In my understanding, Ra divides the function and purpose of the wanderer along these three broad lines:

1) Lightening the planetary vibration through the doubling affect of love and light
2) Serving as “beacon” or “shepherd”
3) Offering the outer gifts of service unique to the individual wanderer

65.12 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=65&ss=1#12

65.11 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=65&ss=1#11

The first and most important two roles of the wanderer indicate not that the wanderer is here to disseminate “information” (though an individual wanderer may certainly do so), but rather to disseminate energy, to open the heart, breathe, and allow the Creator’s love and light through.

Unity100 wrote: notice that these can all be done through existing biases of the society, or, outside those biases.

Not following your point here. Isn’t that obvious to say that any third-density entity, wanderer or not, works within or outside of existing societal biases?

Unity100 wrote:i would replace 'the creator' with 'we'. and i would take it as 'have we, the birds included in that 'we', decided together that the birds survive the storm ? have we, rock and the river included, decided together that the rock will be worn out by the river ? and so on.

Makes sense.

Unity100 wrote:very simple. would a person who is not willing to risk the possibility of death, or not willing to let go of the firm ground under his/her feet, become a stunt pilot ? would it be logical for that person, saying that s/he would accept no chances of death, or, s/he wants to fly, but also wants to have the firm ground under his/her feet while flying ?

Any seeker who invests himself fully into the spiritual path, whether using the Ra Material or the teachings of the Buddha, will at some point arrive at the necessity for death, whether in a life-shattering, life-changing way, or through the gradual process of many small deaths. Usually, however, we are not quite “willing” to let go of everything that death entails, thus the suffering involved. Dropping cherished identity roles – even if they are full of misery – is no easy thing to do.

What you describe is also the action of living life by faith, voyaging out into the unknown and being comfortable with not knowing, floating or flying, as it were, in mid-air with no ground beneath, nothing solid upon which to stand. Many if not all of us here on these forums are in that situation, I believe, of living or attempting to live by faith alone.

Unity100 wrote:it wouldnt. thus, anyone who is after Ra material should be willing to go openly as far as they can, and not to prevent anyone else who wants to go further, from going further.

I don’t think anyone here would begrudge another advancing along the path. With advancement should come humility and the radiation of unconditional love.

Unity100 wrote: i dont think spiritual quest is a solo one.

You’re right in the real sense of the word. All those things you list do accompany the seeker. By “alone” I meant that no one can learn your lessons for you and no one can bear the burden of your experience but you.

Unity100 wrote: the situation in this forum is much better due to care from participants and caretakers though.

Hey, I’ll take the compliment!

GLB previously wrote: Maybe you’re right about the consequences which such actions have for others, maybe you’re wrong. But why so concerned? Isn’t the self our domain and jurisdiction? Work on the self, I say, work on the self and let others be as they are, so long as they are not infringing, or, in the case of the forums, violating the guidelines.

Unity100 wrote:i believe there is 'us'. the failure of someone else, is failure of self, and the failure of self, is the failure of everyone else. though we cant grab entities by the throat and make them succeed, we should maintain some level of concern for everyone, actually everything.

Unity100, I see compassion in that heart of yours.

I can see how my statement might sound cold. I agree with you that we should indeed maintain concern for everyone, for we are them and they are us, and we are one. Like Ra uses the analogy of a pain being felt in ones own body when the suffering of planet Earth is perceived.

I didn’t mean to say that we should not care, or should not attempt to serve others to our utmost, only that in the end we can only be responsible for ourselves and must accept where others are at, for if it arises in this moment, it is sacred and perfect.

Unity100 wrote: i tried to mean various things about the law of responsibility. anything that these entities who are going around in Ra material like a hobby can encounter. from psychic attacks to metaphysical occurrences, this and that. any potential consequence, some of which can have quite an impact.

Thank you for clarifying. Have you met in person many a Law of One student?

In my limited experience, students of the Law of One tend to be very solid, well-rounded individuals who are wise enough not to dabble to the extent that they get themselves into trouble. As a general rule of thumb, that is. Always exceptions, there are.

Unity100 wrote: i also think that Ra is way too sensitive, and the understanding of this locale's logoi is way too contradictory in regard to this free will business :

I understand you’ve got solid thinking behind these conclusions, but personally, I refrain from formulating conclusions regarding the thinking of the Logos. The heart of the path to me involves acceptance of what IS, whatever that may be. Critiquing the Logos is not a productive use of my own energies.

This is not willful ignorance, it is the key to advancement as I understand it.

Btw, there’s something that I read of yours earlier which mentioned that since certain information is in the Ra Material, then it must be knowable and worthwhile and we should consider it.

I would contend that, while the heart of the message is always present in what Ra has to say, and that even in the most technical excerpt there is something to be gleaned, there is information that is frankly not very useful to the mystical quest for unity. Its presence does not connote its significance, it only denotes the fact that Don Elkins wanted to ask about it.

Love and Light to you,
GLB

[unity100]

However I believe you place too much emphasis on information. Take this excerpt into consideration:

17.2 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=17&ss=1#2
Ra: I am Ra. It is impossible to help another being directly. It is only possible to make catalyst available in whatever form, the most important being the radiation of realization of oneness with the Creator from the self, less important being information such as we share with you.

i place emphasis on information, because, it seems to be ignored in modern new age literature and thought. entities are given the impression that 'if you just love/believe, everything will just fall into place'. yeah, it might, if higher principles take the responsibility and put them into place on behalf. but, there is a certain point at which each child needs to grow up and start shouldering responsibilities.

but then again, most of the entities on this planet do not need to worry about this for some time, it seems. my aim is poking the eye of those who need to do, but havent yet.

One can always trace back a sequence of events which made possible that which is occurring in the present. Music, for instance. You could say that modern day gangbanger rap would not have been possible were it not for the hip-hop of the 80’s, which would not have been possible were it not for the R&B of earlier times, itself not possible were it not for the jazz of even earlier decades. (Someone with more musical knowledge could construct a *much* better analogy than I just did.)

Point being, just because there are a string of causal factors preceding an event does not necessarily mean that there was a master plan in place. As you said, everything ties into everything, one thing leading to the next, but that does not prove predestination or a plan other than that which is affected by the upward spiraling light.

Which is not to say that there wasn’t a plan for the Law of One material to manifest! There may well have been. Just that the string of events you listed does not prove the plan.

that depends. an obscure incarnation of a wanderer in 4500 BC may have been a plan and performed accordingly. but we may not know it.

bits and pieces of info coming and going, here and there, may be building blocks, or may not. there are a lot of real stuff scattered around in some cultures, philosophies, but their usability and efficiency is questionable.

but some plans, we can easily make out before being told to. the 200 year long plan for example. it may not have been a precisely timed plan, but it is evident that it was a grand plan that had certain goals.

I understood the waves of wanderers as happening in general to help with harvest. I didn’t consider that waves of wanderers may have also incarnated just to keep the planet viable before the harvest, that is, to help third density not blow itself up. Definitely feasible!

yes. especially after maldek, 1th atlantis, and 2nd atlantis disasters. then again the continent of mu also sank 'due to no fault of their own'. but, how did it sink, really ? ....

Unity100, I really think you’re mistaken here. Third-density entities, as you know, are under the influence of the veil. The veil is a function of the mind complex (and naturally has consequences for the body complex). So there are most definitely changes to the mind complex of the wanderer as the veil descends and becomes rather opaque (though semi-permeable).

veil, as far as i know, is a mechanism that separates conscious mind from subconscious. this is its mechanism. there isnt a separate machination. if we consider the fact that Ra has been saying all that is experienced is experienced in mind ...

The “wanderer” is that entity within third density. The wanderer, by definition, has (for a time span) given up its identity almost completely in order to be of service. It thus becomes a wanderer through this sacrifice. If the sixth-density entity remained a sixth-density entity, serving Earth as a sixth-density entity, with sixth-density knowledge, it would not be a wanderer. Such a case would be like an American doing Peace Corp service in Sudan who always retains his citizenship, his bank account, his vaccinations, and anything else that separates him from the Sudanese, and does not become a Sudanese.

It would only be hoped that that desire to serve would be of such strength and purity that it would come through the Sudanese incarnation and be put into effect.

only 3d body is put into activation instead of a higher d body, and veil is put in between conscious and subconscious mind. else, the entity wouldnt be able to return to its original density upon death. forgetting and contact to subconscious in a heavy body creates the sacrifice. not forfeiting core elements of existence of the entity.

Okay, let’s go over this one again if you don’t mind.

Your basic assertion is this: wanderers incarnated in waves in the 1700’s with the general mission of offering a philosophy which upholds the freedom of the individual. The basic reason behind this mission was to free entities from the drudgery of their day in order that they might have time and opportunity to contemplate spiritual evolution.

I agree. But if I understand you correctly, you are saying that the fact that these wanderers came and fulfilled their function (however imperfectly) means that wanderers have greater access to their subconscious minds. Right?

it is evident that they do. first, had they not have such an access, they would function perfectly identical to the earth native entities, acting along with the societal mind and its conditionings. it would require ability to go past the veil to remember core ideals and concepts of higher densities, or, concepts that are left out/held out of the societal mind. or, at least, some ability to get in sync with such ideas through any means and receive them. be it intuition, be it connection to roots of mind, be it some kind of channeling, muse, inspiration. doesnt matter. the fact is, they were able to go through the veil. else, they would just be 'rather successful' participants of the society, while acting in lockstep with it.

If so, I am disagreeing on the basis that what you are witnessing is the wanderer following through with pre-incarnational programming in the course of their incarnation. Third-density natives do the same thing every day. In partnership with their higher selves they, prior to incarnation, made choices about their own missions they wanted to fulfill on planet Earth while incarnate, missions that may be coordinated with a larger plan of similar-minded souls. When and if they do follow through with that pre-incarnational programming, it does not necessarily mean that they have access to the subconscious that others do not have in potential.

now, if it had been so, there would be no need to have a wanderer do those incarnations and perform these tasks. 3d entities would be able to plan their incarnations in the same manner, and just incarnate and make the objective a reality. this would be even better in that 3d entities would change their own reality. all it would need would be a positively oriented 3d entity who decided to fulfill that mission.

but, apparently such a thing was not enough.

Not following your point here. Isn’t that obvious to say that any third-density entity, wanderer or not, works within or outside of existing societal biases?

that depends. being outside the social bias, would require being able to realize that understandings and behaviors outside that social bias exist. either intuitively, or consciously, or through any other means. this could also be possible for a 3d entity, somewhat remembering that different biases, or views can exist due to their past lives, or any kind of connection to subconscious. but then again, this is also a manifestation of going through the veil.

therefore, it would be easier for a wanderer to go through that veil than a 3d entity, therefore going outside societal biases. though, incarnational program may be arranged to not do as such. however then again, the entity would still be a higher density entity in its core, and this would cause frictions. it is a larger topic actually.

the point is, it is a higher possibility for a wanderer to work outside social biases than a 3d entity.

Any seeker who invests himself fully into the spiritual path, whether using the Ra Material or the teachings of the Buddha, will at some point arrive at the necessity for death, whether in a life-shattering, life-changing way, or through the gradual process of many small deaths. Usually, however, we are not quite “willing” to let go of everything that death entails, thus the suffering involved. Dropping cherished identity roles – even if they are full of misery – is no easy thing to do.

What you describe is also the action of living life by faith, voyaging out into the unknown and being comfortable with not knowing, floating or flying, as it were, in mid-air with no ground beneath, nothing solid upon which to stand. Many if not all of us here on these forums are in that situation, I believe, of living or attempting to live by faith alone.

actually what i mean was more determination than faith. intention, determination, will.

Unity100, I see compassion in that heart of yours.

I can see how my statement might sound cold. I agree with you that we should indeed maintain concern for everyone, for we are them and they are us, and we are one. Like Ra uses the analogy of a pain being felt in ones own body when the suffering of planet Earth is perceived.

I didn’t mean to say that we should not care, or should not attempt to serve others to our utmost, only that in the end we can only be responsible for ourselves and must accept where others are at, for if it arises in this moment, it is sacred and perfect.

your statement is not cold. actually you cant just take care of everything, neither everything would want to be taken care of directly everything else. but, even if practicalities and wisdom doesnt allow for it, one can always remember the core concept above, the fact that everything being on the same bus. that should allow for being aware of possibilities of aiding the others when and if an opportunity and accompanying request happen.

Thank you for clarifying. Have you met in person many a Law of One student?

In my limited experience, students of the Law of One tend to be very solid, well-rounded individuals who are wise enough not to dabble to the extent that they get themselves into trouble. As a general rule of thumb, that is. Always exceptions, there are.

cant say students. they were probably having it as a hobby. actually most of the people i saw who were interested in new age literature were like that, leave aside Ra material. a smaller majority were involved in it as an escape.

By the way, there’s something that I read of yours earlier which mentioned that since certain information is in the Ra Material, then it must be knowable and worthwhile and we should consider it.

I would contend that, while the heart of the message is always present in what Ra has to say, and that even in the most technical excerpt there is something to be gleaned, there is information that is frankly not very useful to the mystical quest for unity. Its presence does not connote its significance, it only denotes the fact that Don Elkins wanted to ask about it.

it can easily be said that don elkins wanted to ask about any particular thing, because that was something which was wanted to be asked about, for the mystical quest to unity.

'transient' information is already dubbed as transient in answers, by the way.

[Steppingfeet]

Dear Unity100,

Unity100 wrote: i place emphasis on information, because, it seems to be ignored in modern new age literature and thought. entities are given the impression that 'if you just love/believe, everything will just fall into place'. yeah, it might, if higher principles take the responsibility and put them into place on behalf. but, there is a certain point at which each child needs to grow up and start shouldering responsibilities.

Firstly, let me say that it was inappropriate of me to say that you place “too much emphasis” upon information. The balance for each entity is unique, so who am I to know what is too much for you? Better would it have been for me to say that I would not place so much emphasis on information, and here is why _______.

Now, to your point. I understand where you’re coming from on this, I believe. I find certain schools of thought in the general New Age movement to be a bit too mushy, fluffy, and wish-oriented for me. However, I don’t feel compelled to provide a corrective influence to the entity of New Age or similar thought pattern.

In your thinking, what role does information which is learned from a source external to the self (be it an other-self or a book) play in the evolution of an entity?

Unity100 wrote: but then again, most of the entities on this planet do not need to worry about this for some time, it seems. my aim is poking the eye of those who need to do, but havent yet.

Thank you for your honesty. I am instinctively weary of anyone who appoints themselves to the role of teaching others that which the self deems important lessons to be learned by the others. I lived with an individual for a couple of years who took it upon himself to take my spiritual growth into his own hands. So advanced was he in his own self-estimation that he could see the way for me. He subsequently proceeded to engineer situations in order to teach me that which I needed to learn, despite my protests and requests that the activity cease. (To those who know my story, this individual’s name does not begin with a “D”.)

I am not alleging that you are of the same disposition, but I am wondering (and could be very wrong) if there is a similar motivation in your case.

I know that you are aware of the principle of service being possible only to the extent that it is requested. I ask how this figures into your approach in relating to other spiritually oriented entities who you deem to be lacking in wisdom?

Unity100 wrote: but some plans, we can easily make out before being told to. the 200 year long plan for example. it may not have been a precisely timed plan, but it is evident that it was a grand plan that had certain goals.

I concur that the 200 year plan (if that’s what we’re calling it) was indeed a plan. But we know this because Ra told us. Additionally, the facts of the historical progression corroborate Ra's statements.

However, Ra did not say that a plan was put into effect which laid the groundwork for the coming of the Law of One material. You deduced that such a plan must exist simply on the basis of their being a sequence of events culminating in the Law of One material.

Again, while there very well may have been a plan, (it would be interesting to learn that there were other entities heroically sacrificing before 1981 for the purpose of preparing the way for the Law of One) the sequence all by itself cannot prove the existence of a plan. Would you agree or disagree on that point?

Unity100 wrote: veil, as far as i know, is a mechanism that separates conscious mind from subconscious. this is its mechanism. there isnt a separate machination. if we consider the fact that Ra has been saying all that is experienced is experienced in mind ...

About the veil separating the conscious from the subconscious mind, I would say that the veil creates those divisions. Without the veil, there is no conscious and subconscious, there is just mind.

I don’t understand what you mean by “separate machination” though.

Unity100 wrote: only 3d body is put into activation instead of a higher d body, and veil is put in between conscious and subconscious mind. else, the entity wouldnt be able to return to its original density upon death. forgetting and contact to subconscious in a heavy body creates the sacrifice. not forfeiting core elements of existence of the entity.

I agree that the entity is not “forfeiting core elements of existence of the entity”. The entity is not losing its identity and all the experience accumulated therein. All that continues to exist, of course, but the wanderer entity loses access to that billions-year-old identity and find themselves in the predicament of the third-density entity.

Here’s a clumsy analogy. The individual soul begins within a one room house in its infant experience, whether that’s in second density or third, or maybe even first, I’m not sure. As experience is gained, new rooms are added to the house of the entity.

The higher density entity, having been around the block a few times, owns a mansion filled with experience and made of thousands of rooms. When the higher density entity incarnates as a third-density wanderer, all of its rooms of experience do not cease to exist, do not go away, they simply become, for the most part, inaccessible. The conscious mind of the wanderer is relegated to, let’s say, a handful of unlit rooms in the front of the house, the doors leading to the remainder of the house (its experience) being shut fairly tightly, though able to be opened in the dreaming and in whatever other method that may successfully pierce the veil (open the door).

The situation for the third-density native and the wanderer is the same. Both are barred access to their whole house, both are kept in a few unlit, narrow rooms. The wanderer’s house is of course much bigger, but, like the third-density native, it is barred entry for all intents and purposes. Would you agree, disagree?

GLB previously wrote: Your basic assertion is this: wanderers incarnated in waves in the 1700’s with the general mission of offering a philosophy which upholds the freedom of the individual. The basic reason behind this mission was to free entities from the drudgery of their day in order that they might have time and opportunity to contemplate spiritual evolution.

I agree. But if I understand you correctly, you are saying that the fact that these wanderers came and fulfilled their function (however imperfectly) means that wanderers have greater access to their subconscious minds. Right?

Unity100 responded: it is evident that they do. first, had they not have such an access, they would function perfectly identical to the earth native entities, acting along with the societal mind and its conditionings. it would require ability to go past the veil to remember core ideals and concepts of higher densities, or, concepts that are left out/held out of the societal mind. or, at least, some ability to get in sync with such ideas through any means and receive them. be it intuition, be it connection to roots of mind, be it some kind of channeling, muse, inspiration. doesnt matter. the fact is, they were able to go through the veil. else, they would just be 'rather successful' participants of the society, while acting in lockstep with it.

I get what you’re saying, you are saying that all or most entities on planet Earth wanted to achieve what the wanderers achieved, but only the wanderers had access to subconscious information so only the wanderers achieved their goals. It’s a keen observation, but one I'm not sure is entirely true.

What I believe you are seeing is not greater access to the subconscious, but rather a different mission between the two groups. The wanderers have achieved the particular goals you named – and in so doing acted in contrast to native entities – simply because they had a different mission.

Third-density natives may have also achieved similar results of following through with their pre-incarnational programming but the objectives may have been different from those of the wanderers. It’s just two sets of groups following two slightly different game plans.

But there is so much speculation in both of our points of view because neither of us knows to what extent the native population participated in the wanderers’ collective mission of the 1700’s and 1800’s.

GLB previously wrote: If so, I am disagreeing on the basis that what you are witnessing is the wanderer following through with pre-incarnational programming in the course of their incarnation. Third-density natives do the same thing every day. In partnership with their higher selves they, prior to incarnation, made choices about their own missions they wanted to fulfill on planet Earth while incarnate, missions that may be coordinated with a larger plan of similar-minded souls. When and if they do follow through with that pre-incarnational programming, it does not necessarily mean that they have access to the subconscious that others do not have in potential.

Unity100 responded: now, if it had been so, there would be no need to have a wanderer do those incarnations and perform these tasks. 3d entities would be able to plan their incarnations in the same manner, and just incarnate and make the objective a reality. this would be even better in that 3d entities would change their own reality. all it would need would be a positively oriented 3d entity who decided to fulfill that mission.

but, apparently such a thing was not enough.

So you are saying that humans and wanderers wanted the same thing, but, the humans finding themselves incapable of achieving their objectives, the wanderers had to step in to fulfill the mission?

This raises a very interesting question. Was the 200 year plan something the Harvesters initiated of their own accord and imposed on the Earth-garden as a means of increasing the harvest? Or was the 200 year plan the Confederation’s response to a collective need from humanity?

I am leaning towards the latter, considering that:

1) Service can only be offered to the extent it is requested. Therefore the Confederation could only offer this plan as means of serving the request of Earth citizens.

2) All happens as a result of free will. The native population must have desired that which the wanderers delivered, because the Confederation can only operate within the free will parameters of the third-density population.

Unity100 wrote[b]: that depends. being outside the social bias, would require being able to realize that understandings and behaviors outside that social bias exist. either intuitively, or consciously, or through any other means. this could also be possible for a 3d entity, somewhat remembering that different biases, or views can exist due to their past lives, or any kind of connection to subconscious. but then again, this is also a manifestation of going through the veil.

I grok what you’re saying. You make a valid point that in order to step outside the boundaries of what is considered possible, it is helpful (perhaps necessary?) to have some awareness of there being other possibilities not yet manifested.

This ties into why the Confederation advertises mystery – to wake entities up to the possibility of there being more to – or more than – the illusion.

However, there must be other avenues for new or novel configurations of thought to emerge within a given system. The resolutions, “There has got to be a better way to do this.” –or- “There must be a solution to this problem.” are surely enough to motivate a journey of discovery through trial and error and inspiration which leads to the discovery of that which is novel. In other words, it is not necessary to have pre-existing knowledge stashed deep in the mind about other possibilities from previous experience, though that would certainly help.

[b]Unity100 wrote: it is a larger topic actually.

As most things are.

Unity100 wrote: actually what i mean was more determination than faith. intention, determination, will.

Would you agree that faith and will are two sides of the same coin? Actually, what do you think about faith?

Unity100 wrote: cant say students. they were probably having it as a hobby. actually most of the people i saw who were interested in new age literature were like that, leave aside Ra material. a smaller majority were involved in it as an escape.

They are certainly varying degrees of involvement in any pursuit, the spiritual included. I may be reading you incorrectly, but it seems that you do not accept the divine rightness of entities pursuing spirituality with less passion than you feel you possess.

]GLB previously wrote: By the way, there’s something that I read of yours earlier which mentioned that since certain information is in the Ra Material, then it must be knowable and worthwhile and we should consider it.

I would contend that, while the heart of the message is always present in what Ra has to say, and that even in the most technical excerpt there is something to be gleaned, there is information that is frankly not very useful to the mystical quest for unity. Its presence does not connote its significance, it only denotes the fact that Don Elkins wanted to ask about it.

Unity100 responded: it can easily be said that don elkins wanted to ask about any particular thing, because that was something which was wanted to be asked about, for the mystical quest to unity.

'transient' information is already dubbed as transient in answers, by the way.

The point I was trying to make was that just because the information is present in the Ra Material does not mean that it is central to spiritual evolution.

It is a salient point you make that a lot of “transient” information is marked as such. (Btw, “transient” was the word I meant when I said “technical”.) But I believe that Ra marked only the most superfluous material as transient. There are still other details which, while endlessly fascinating, are not, in my opinion, worth spending too much time considering on the journey towards knowing and becoming the One.

To the question, “Why is this particular information in the Ra Material”, there are only two answers which will be true in every case. 1) Don Elkins wanted to know about it. 2) Ra felt that it would not infringe upon the free will of the group to share it.

In neither case is the information shared necessarily significant, even if not marked as “transient”.

As this thread has evolved into a discussion between us, I will continue in that vein and ask this: What is it that you as an incarnate entity hope to achieve? Do you have a defined goal? What is it that you seek? And by what method or methods do you hope to achieve this objective?

Light/Love to you,
GLB

[βαθμιαίος]

Really good and relevant excerpts. The final one is an excerpt that's remained fairly cryptic to me. I've never been able to quite grasp what Ra is saying there.

So if I explained it to you, would I, in a way, be taking away your free will confusion?

This raises a very interesting question. Was the 200 year plan something the Harvesters initiated of their own accord and imposed on the Earth-garden as a means of increasing the harvest? Or was the 200 year plan the Confederation’s response to a collective need from humanity?

I am leaning towards the latter, considering that:

1) Service can only be offered to the extent it is requested. Therefore the Confederation could only offer this plan as means of serving the request of Earth citizens.

2) All happens as a result of free will. The native population must have desired that which the wanderers delivered, because the Confederation can only operate within the free will parameters of the third-density population.

GLB, thank you for taking the time to paraphrase unity100's comments. Unity100, I apologize: I often try to read your posts but find my eyes glazing over. Perhaps I lack discipline and motivation!

With regard to the quote above, Ra does suggest that the Confederation has, in the past, violated free will (in the transfer of the souls from Mars) and done many foolish things. So I think it's possible that the plan you have been discussing could have been initiated from outside of earth's third density. (Not saying that the plan was foolish, just that Ra gives the impression that the Confederation has tried many, many things to try to get through to us.)

[Steppingfeet]

Dear βαθμιαίος,

Really good and relevant excerpts. The final one is an excerpt that's remained fairly cryptic to me. I've never been able to quite grasp what Ra is saying there.

βαθμιαίος wrote: So if I explained it to you, would I, in a way, be taking away your free will confusion?

Bahth-mee-eye-os, I was seriously going to start a new thread with the question, "wtf does this excerpt mean?" It is one that I would *love* to see tackled.

If you have an interpretation, by all means, please proceed! As to infringing, I know that you, like me, unlike Ra, are just a bozo on this bus. I am therefore more free to accept, reject, or ignore your interpretation.

If however you manifested in front of my computer screen right now in the physical to declare the excerpt's meaning, then I might be vulnerable to free will infringement.

βαθμιαίος wrote:With regard to the quote above, Ra does suggest that the Confederation has, in the past, violated free will (in the transfer of the souls from Mars) and done many foolish things. So I think it's possible that the plan you have been discussing could have been initiated from outside of earth's third density. (Not saying that the plan was foolish, just that Ra gives the impression that the Confederation has tried many, many things to try to get through to us.)

So perhaps it is like this. The plants within a garden naturally of their own prerogative wish to grow. But those tending the garden see that many plants are failing. So the harvesters (the Confederation & co.) attempt to serve the free will of the plants, but creatively so. They devise strategies. Maybe miracle grow? Maybe rearrangement of the plants? Maybe more shade/less shade?

Point being, the plants didn't specifically ask for miracle grow, or rearrangement, or more shade/less shade - they asked only to grow with sunlight and water. The Confederation takes creative license in serving that free will need by concocting various strategies.

Or perhaps the human plants, being a bit more self-aware than plant plants, did desire things like more opportunity for contemplation during the diurnal cycle and greater individual freedom, etc. The Confederation, consequently, was happy to serve that need through the function of the wanderer.

I would think that what the waves of wanderers accomplished were indeed something that had been yearned for by the "huddled masses" of humanity.

Love/Light,
GLB

[unity100]

Dear Unity100,

Unity100 wrote: i place emphasis on information, because, it seems to be ignored in modern new age literature and thought. entities are given the impression that 'if you just love/believe, everything will just fall into place'. yeah, it might, if higher principles take the responsibility and put them into place on behalf. but, there is a certain point at which each child needs to grow up and start shouldering responsibilities.

Firstly, let me say that it was inappropriate of me to say that you place “too much emphasis” upon information. The balance for each entity is unique, so who am I to know what is too much for you? Better would it have been for me to say that I would not place so much emphasis on information, and here is why _______.

proper and valid, proofed observation from external sources is vital to achieving balance and correction. anyone is a mirror of anyone else.

In your thinking, what role does information which is learned from a source external to the self (be it an other-self or a book) play in the evolution of an entity?

infinitely. if you think that there is infinity, and there exists an octave after this, an octave before this, and many octaves before and after those, you can easily think that we are very probably just making selections from a pool of already existing knowledge/understandings/feelings, than discovering things. maybe in a much much subtle manner, but, as such. what matters is, what is received should be in compliance with the preferences of the entity.

hiding everything in 'mystery' (despite almost everything is being already mystified sufficiently by the infinity itself) and then allowing entities to bump their heads into walls in seeking, and then when they find a door to pass, passing that door and then this being accepted as 'their free will', or their preference, is fundamentally wrong.

the best, is showing all the doors to the entity, from among which the entity will decide which door to go, with its own spiritual preference and deep inclinations.

what would be wrong, would be to actually coerce or herd the entity directly into a door.

basically, this is saying, 'here are your potential best choices, you can choose any of them you like. you can also start banging your head against a wall, and make a door on that wall for you to pass, from wherever you prefer'. so then, if the entity wants to bang his head into walls, even that would be his/her own preference.

freedom.

Thank you for your honesty. I am instinctively weary of anyone who appoints themselves to the role of teaching others that which the self deems important lessons to be learned by the others. I lived with an individual for a couple of years who took it upon himself to take my spiritual growth into his own hands. So advanced was he in his own self-estimation that he could see the way for me. He subsequently proceeded to engineer situations in order to teach me that which I needed to learn, despite my protests and requests that the activity cease. (To those who know my story, this individual’s name does not begin with a “D”.)

I am not alleging that you are of the same disposition, but I am wondering (and could be very wrong) if there is a similar motivation in your case.

I know that you are aware of the principle of service being possible only to the extent that it is requested. I ask how this figures into your approach in relating to other spiritually oriented entities who you deem to be lacking in wisdom?

i think the above block already summarized my take. in the above example, your 'teacher' listing you all that s/he knew, and giving information to you about all the possible choices s/he knows of, all the information s/he can make out, and then leaving you to use whichever information you wanted in whatever way, and then aiding you in your chosen way would be the proper configuration.

a full and clear, honest manifestation of blue ray, in which the entity is sharing all s/he learned and knows with the other entity in truee spirit of giving first, and then respecting the choice and preference of the entity. and if, the entity's choices are not in compliance with him/her, a parting of ways in a decent manner.

which is exemplified by the communication of all known info about the walls and doors to the entity in my above abstract example.



what he did, seems however, was learning for the entity itself. deciding its fate, its course. its more an orange manifestation of ownership, identification, herd approach than anything green, blue or indigo in core. or, all of these energies, but, with the possessive influence of orange ray. he has made the choices for you, he decided what route you should take.

which is exemplified in the doors and walls example, by the teacher/overseer herding/coercing or pushing the entity into a door.


..............

it is not wrong to want another entity to make a certain choice. it is not wrong for an entity to honestly say 'i myself would like very much that you choose door x'. all the entities have a right to have preferences, biases, and wants and desires, and they have a right to have these in regard to their fellow beings, and even higher density acquaintances, contacts, aides, family, societal complex, and even intelligent infinity itself too. but, it is wrong to coerce or enforce them while teaching.

of course, negative path is excluded from this.

However, Ra did not say that a plan was put into effect which laid the groundwork for the coming of the Law of One material. You deduced that such a plan must exist simply on the basis of their being a sequence of events culminating in the Law of One material.

no no, what i said was, this plan was made to provide relief to the world inhabitants from the daily tasks, so that they would have enough time in a day to be able to take their minds off survival and tasks to be able to think about Law of One or anything in a meaningful manner.

and i base it on this :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#28

28, and 29

11.28 Questioner: Would this freeing from darkness be commensurate with the Law of One or does this have any real product?

Ra: I am Ra. The product of such a freeing would create two experiences.

Firstly, the experience of no need to find the necessary emolument for payment, in your money, for energy.

Secondly, the leisure afforded, thereby exemplifying the possibility and enhancing the probability of the freedom to then search the self, the beginning of seeking the Law of One.

Few there are working physically from daybreak to darkness, as you name them, upon your plane who can contemplate the Law of One in a conscious fashion.

11.29 Questioner: What about the Industrial Revolution in general. Was this planned in any way?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the final question of this session.

That is correct. Wanderers incarnated in several waves, as you may call them, in order to bring into existence the gradual freeing from the demands of the diurnal cycles and lack of freedom of leisure.

actually there is nothing much to base, the q/as directly state this.

Again, while there very well may have been a plan, (it would be interesting to learn that there were other entities heroically sacrificing before 1981 for the purpose of preparing the way for the Law of One) the sequence all by itself cannot prove the existence of a plan. Would you agree or disagree on that point?

this can be a topic in itself, but i very much suspect that the 1960s and the changing consciousness, the 'hippie revolution' and whatnot, were related to this.

of course, it is highly possible that they were not made in order to pave the way directly to ll group's channeling with Ra, they were done as a general plan in preparation with the end of the cycle, however, it is undeniable that it is a major factor that paved the way for Ra contact. and im not talking about the seeking ll group have made in 1960s and 1960s effects on them - im approaching it from the angle that because in 1960s millions of entities have created a calling, created higher vibrations and brought in higher energies ( at the cost of their own lives sometimes, due to usage of drugs that opened various higher brain functions and accompanying consciousness), and in general lightened planetary vibrations so that the Ra contact could become possible too, in addition to all kinds of contacts and spiritual work.

About the veil separating the conscious from the subconscious mind, I would say that the veil creates those divisions. Without the veil, there is no conscious and subconscious, there is just mind.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#10

79.10 Questioner: Then from that statement I assume that the Logos first devised the tool of separating the unconscious from the conscious during what we call physical incarnations to achieve its objective? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes.

it seems, conscious and subconscious existed before the veil. in order to be able to separate two things, there should exist two divisible concepts first.

if your approach to this different, you should share your findings in detail, and put forth the reasoning. it may be vital.

I don’t understand what you mean by “separate machination” though.

i meant any specific alteration to workings of mind, body and spirit.

I agree that the entity is not “forfeiting core elements of existence of the entity”. The entity is not losing its identity and all the experience accumulated therein. All that continues to exist, of course, but the wanderer entity loses access to that billions-year-old identity and find themselves in the predicament of the third-density entity.

by identity i dont mean the entity with its past known, performing a certain positional task/service in some 6d complex, or anything similar.

by identity i meant, the core understandings and vibrations of its own density. ie, 6d vibrations, understandings, acclimatization of 6d, if it is 6d, and such. remember how once Ra mentioned as Carla was getting acclimatized with the vibrations Ra's density, during a q/a regarding an irrelevant matter.

The higher density entity, having been around the block a few times, owns a mansion filled with experience and made of thousands of rooms. When the higher density entity incarnates as a third-density wanderer, all of its rooms of experience do not cease to exist, do not go away, they simply become, for the most part, inaccessible. The conscious mind of the wanderer is relegated to, let’s say, a handful of unlit rooms in the front of the house, the doors leading to the remainder of the house (its experience) being shut fairly tightly, though able to be opened in the dreaming and in whatever other method that may successfully pierce the veil (open the door).

The situation for the third-density native and the wanderer is the same. Both are barred access to their whole house, both are kept in a few unlit, narrow rooms. The wanderer’s house is of course much bigger, but, like the third-density native, it is barred entry for all intents and purposes. Would you agree, disagree?

the analogy is a bit lacking in that, it doesnt take into account the spirit part of the mind/body/spirit complex. the conscious mind and its subconscious carry the biases and experiences of the entity, but, if we take the spirit out of the equation, then entity becomes just another mind/body, no different than lower 2d entities incarnating in a random body.

the major difference in between a 3d entity and a wanderer, therefore, is very probably the spirit, which had taken on the nature, color and characteristics of its own native density.

I get what you’re saying, you are saying that all or most entities on planet Earth wanted to achieve what the wanderers achieved, but only the wanderers had access to subconscious information so only the wanderers achieved their goals. It’s a keen observation, but one I'm not sure is entirely true.

not quite, what i was saying was that, due to they actually being the beings of a higher density and evolution, they had more means to be able to go past the veil, penetrate their subconscious and contact any kind of spiritual, or mental source (roots of mind, in regard to mental). veil also makes contact with any kind of disincarnate or higher density entity harder.

wanderers, either due to the spirit part of their complex, or any other combination of mind/spirit factors, have greater potential and power to go past the veil.

What I believe you are seeing is not greater access to the subconscious, but rather a different mission between the two groups. The wanderers have achieved the particular goals you named – and in so doing acted in contrast to native entities – simply because they had a different mission.

Third-density natives may have also achieved similar results of following through with their pre-incarnational programming but the objectives may have been different from those of the wanderers. It’s just two sets of groups following two slightly different game plans.

I grok what you’re saying. You make a valid point that in order to step outside the boundaries of what is considered possible, it is helpful (perhaps necessary?) to have some awareness of there being other possibilities not yet manifested.

This ties into why the Confederation advertises mystery – to wake entities up to the possibility of there being more to – or more than – the illusion.

However, there must be other avenues for new or novel configurations of thought to emerge within a given system. The resolutions, “There has got to be a better way to do this.” –or- “There must be a solution to this problem.” are surely enough to motivate a journey of discovery through trial and error and inspiration which leads to the discovery of that which is novel. In other words, it is not necessary to have pre-existing knowledge stashed deep in the mind about other possibilities from previous experience, though that would certainly help.

now, again, this is the important point ; had it been possible for 3d entities to be able to penetrate the veil in that manner, and accomplish those tasks through incarnational programming, no wanderer would be required to do those tasks.

you incarnate a 3d entity. the entity is supposed to do indigo ray activity, and invent. and create. or, connect with infinite intelligence in an unmanifested fashion, and get muses and inspiration.

but it is an 3d entity. it doesnt have sufficient experience in that area. even if you take an entity which had taken initiation training through pyramids in atlantean era or else, the entity would still not be able to accomplish the indigo ray activity except in certain conditions, circumstances. (ie in a pyramid, or engaging in excesses like the negative initiates/adepts like rasputin, and so on). they certainly wouldnt be able to just sit in front of a cup of coffee in a 19th century middle class home and have indigo ray activity as if it was the most normal daily event in the world.

therefore, bringing those inventions, advancements in such a short time duration, without going with the method of using pyramids and conscious contact with adepts that have brought out the information from the indigo ray activity/contact in pyramids, or other paranormal/spiritual means, would be a very hard task for an 3d entity in 18-19th century, even if that entity was a former atlantean adept. granted, there were a lot of atlantean incarnated entities that were engaging in science works, technology in jayce's time, as we see from his channelings, but, firstly, it seems from the readings that these entities' incarnations did not involve ground breaking, world changing inventions and musings, but rather working on and bettering of existing technology, and, very importantly, deciding to use that technology for good, instead of destroying each other and a planet. it can be said that they were incarnated more for making a choice, rather than actually bringing in inventions.

so, it is much more easy for a wanderer with the coloration of its own density in its mind/spirit complex to be able to go through the rigors of 3d, and 3d body, and engage in indigo ray activity while living an ordinary daily life, and probably that was the reason the 200 year long wave was planned.

But there is so much speculation in both of our points of view because neither of us knows to what extent the native population participated in the wanderers’ collective mission of the 1700’s and 1800’s.

as per the jayce approach, a lot participated apparently. however, i suspect (as i understand from jayce) not as inventors, bringers of indigo information themselves, but, as furtherers of that information, as aides, clerks, responsibles, maybe sometimes even investors, capital holders (very very probable when considering Ra's remark about how atlantean society being a very 'conglomerate' one), aiders in various manners.

So you are saying that humans and wanderers wanted the same thing, but, the humans finding themselves incapable of achieving their objectives, the wanderers had to step in to fulfill the mission?

This raises a very interesting question. Was the 200 year plan something the Harvesters initiated of their own accord and imposed on the Earth-garden as a means of increasing the harvest? Or was the 200 year plan the Confederation’s response to a collective need from humanity?

humans may or may not have wanted the same thing. it is hard to know at this point.

what we can speculate is that, however, ra had said that the preference of an unpolarized 3d entity would be for more comfort. so, if we take the earth entities as mostly unpolarized at that given point in time, it is highly probable that they would have liked to become free of daily shackles of life they were so heavily coerced into, by the existing societal system then.

the latter paragraph of above block of yours is important. i personally think, it is more the harvester accord than the earth request. it is possible for an earth request for freedom from shackles to exist. and, it is possible for harvesters to evaluate this, and take a plan to saturn, and then come down with that plan.

I am leaning towards the latter, considering that:

1) Service can only be offered to the extent it is requested. Therefore the Confederation could only offer this plan as means of serving the request of Earth citizens.

2) All happens as a result of free will. The native population must have desired that which the wanderers delivered, because the Confederation can only operate within the free will parameters of the third-density population.

at that point, i would like to refer you to my post about guardians, guardianship, yahweh, martians and the adventures of them on earth :

http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.ph...3#pid16473

it is quite doubtful that the existing earth entities', (3d or close to harvest of 3d - late 2d -) wills and positions were considered in yahweh's plans, or taken seriously enough.

Would you agree that faith and will are two sides of the same coin? Actually, what do you think about faith?

not quite.

will, is the intent, desire for something.

faith, is the acceptance that that something or any other kind of thing will happen. or, it is trust placed in something that is not entirely understood, known. or, it is trust placed in something that is not known to be certainly happening in a reliable manner.

they are quite different.

faith can also be trust placed in an entity or principle which is known to have manifested a certain result, after that entity or principle clearly and unmistakably stating that it is again going to manifest that result, and, it is seen that there are no higher principles or impossible circumstances preventing that from happening.

the seeker should maintain a strong will and do its seeking with the power of that will. entities are not expected to resign to things, and keep faith in things in expectation that some things will happen or will come into being or anything. else, it goes fundamentally against to the logic of manifesting as discrete entities with free will - what reason is there to do as such, if entities are going to have faith in things, and resign themselves.

the only faith that can be placed is the faith of us being an infinite collective of entities, ie, infinite intelligence, or, ultimately, there existing an infinity.

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and then again it is mind bogglingly ironic that i am saying these things, and i am manifesting a huge deal of faith in various aspects and concepts, from this planet or from time/space in higher densities, and even voicing that in sentences like 'i do not know what is going to happen and where im going, but i am happy with it' to other entities in lucid dreams.

there are various stuff, i am striving heavily towards, with will though.

They are certainly varying degrees of involvement in any pursuit, the spiritual included. I may be reading you incorrectly, but it seems that you do not accept the divine rightness of entities pursuing spirituality with less passion than you feel you possess.

anyone has the right to pursue anything with any given passion.

however, it is wrong to go into some pursuit which is cleanly said to be intended for seekers of higher passion, and then not to exhibit or employ such a passion. and sometimes, it is dangerous too. especially in matters of spirituality.

The point I was trying to make was that just because the information is present in the Ra Material does not mean that it is central to spiritual evolution.

It is a salient point you make that a lot of “transient” information is marked as such. (By the way, “transient” was the word I meant when I said “technical”.) But I believe that Ra marked only the most superfluous material as transient. There are still other details which, while endlessly fascinating, are not, in my opinion, worth spending too much time considering on the journey towards knowing and becoming the One.

To the question, “Why is this particular information in the Ra Material”, there are only two answers which will be true in every case. 1) Don Elkins wanted to know about it. 2) Ra felt that it would not infringe upon the free will of the group to share it.

In neither case is the information shared necessarily significant, even if not marked as “transient”.

well well, it is quite interesting that this point came up.

actually i was combining what Ra said about how places and objects could elevate to 3rd density from 1st density with investment from entities, the excessive amount of material technology manifested and practiced in this world (especially with robots), the fact that there not being a physical vehicle capable of sustaining life in 1d planets, and therefore no such investments of consciousness in 1d planets (they cant support 2d or higher life), the obsession of this locale's logos with giving too much technology to 3d entities in this locale, and resulting overblown and imbalanced technological situations, and making possible conclusions about the potential possibilities and plans of infinite intelligence for the next octave, and the way creation flows from upside down, and bottom up.

this shows that, most technical, fascinating, but seemingly transient material, when combined, can lead to quite important understandings and horizons in regard to the nature of intelligent infinity.

As this thread has evolved into a discussion between us, I will continue in that vein and ask this: What is it that you as an incarnate entity hope to achieve? Do you have a defined goal? What is it that you seek? And by what method or methods do you hope to achieve this objective?

i think these are too delicate matters to be openly discussed in a discussion forum.

[βαθμιαίος]

As to infringing, I know that you, like me, unlike Ra, are just a bozo on this bus. I am therefore more free to accept, reject, or ignore your interpretation.

Ra is also just a bozo on the bus, or as they put it, "an humble messenger of the Law of One."

If I explain it to you, and you accept my explanation, then my actions will have caused a change in you. That's not infringement, but is a responsibility, one that I ought to consider before undertaking. I think that's the essence of the paragraph that I said reminded me of unity100: try to put yourself in the shoes of the one you're intending to serve and see if the service you are considering is appropriate.

[unity100]

As to infringing, I know that you, like me, unlike Ra, are just a bozo on this bus. I am therefore more free to accept, reject, or ignore your interpretation.

Ra is also just a bozo on the bus, or as they put it, "an humble messenger of the Law of One."

If I explain it to you, and you accept my explanation, then my actions will have caused a change in you. That's not infringement, but is a responsibility, one that I ought to consider before undertaking. I think that's the essence of the paragraph that I said reminded me of unity100: try to put yourself in the shoes of the one you're intending to serve and see if the service you are considering is appropriate.

it is rather impossible to precisely know what can be shared and what cannot, in regard to knowledge, if you are considering the work of blue ray, 5d. it may be easier when 3d, 4d is involved, however when it becomes to 5d, blue seeking, it changes.

you may share 10 units of knowledge. 8 bits of that knowledge may be irrelevant to the person, unwanted, 1 bit harmful, undesired, but 1 unit maybe vital, quite important.

so, when related to matters concerning blue ray, and blue ray learning and seekers, it becomes paramount to present all you have, and the other party becomes free to learn from whatever part of that knowledge s/he wants. it is one of the characteristics of a density and ray which is 'extremely free' in nature, as Ra puts it.