Law of One Advanced Teachings and The Mind

[haqiqu]

It's all I've got to you offer you guys at this moment, other than my gratitude.

That's the Spirit!

Love to all

[Monica]

so then, why are you actually in the forum of a material that has that advanced higher density information ? all that wisdom stuff, working with chakras, detailed healing, meditation, and even the study of archetypal mind of this local logos ? the Ra material ?

if we cannot possibly comprehend with our limited third density minds, why did the Ra group have gone through all that effort to channel that information. and, leave that aside, why did Ra prepare such information and searched for such a group to convey that kind of advanced information in the first place ? was Ra naive to convey that information ?

huh ? isnt there a contradiction ?

you are talking as if all 4 books and all the information conveyed in them were 'love each other', 'make a choice'. it isnt. there is insane amounts of advanced teachings and information.

Oh wow. Good point!

it is not the goal of any wanderer or higher density entity. they are, not of 3d. they cannot remake a choice.

True. They've already made it. However, it is possible for them to backslide, to get stuck in the muck so to speak, which is the risk they/we took. There was even that case of those Wanderers who polarized to STS and awoke 'disconcerted.'

thirdly, as long as a wanderer limits and forces himself/herself to behave like a 3d entity trying to make a choice in 3d, or an entity which forces itself to act as a 4d entity, s/he will not be able to contact intelligent infinity in a meaningful fashion for continued work.

That's disconcerting and very intriguing.

and as a final note, it is contradictory to engage in discussions in a forum that is dedicated to the study of advanced information, and then to say 'these are not for our minds'. it is there. you studied it. it becomes a contradiction.

Let those who wish to discuss and study these concepts in depth, carry on, and those who don't wish to, are free to not participate.

[Steppingfeet]

Dear forums,

Reading this thread, I was thoroughly enjoying the discussion, especially from one member in particular. I reached a point wherein this particular member began receiving a small barrage of personal criticism and, by all intents and purposes, judgment from multiple members.

This thread is the most recent example of members feeling their toes being stepped on by the one known as Unity100, and the short version of this lengthy post is this: The moderators in unison feel that Unity100 would do well to make some small modifications to his approach. Those who cannot find their way to accepting Unity100 are falling unacceptably outside of the forum guidelines. Please read on for a more elaborate exposition on these statements.

In response to this issue, the moderators have invested some time in reviewing Unity100’s postings, focusing especially on the way he interacts with others in the forums. While we recognize imperfection in Unity100’s approach (which I’ll get to momentarily), we have not found reason for the strength of the negative reaction generated in response to his posting. Indeed it’s all the more puzzling considering so much of the negative reaction is taking place in a pretense of offering “love” to Unity100 – or – aiding him to conform to a forum-wide ethos of love.

Here is what I and the other moderators generally feel about Unity100’s postings: Unity100 is intimately familiar with the Law of One material, drawing upon it extensively to make his points. Citing the Law of One and incorporating the material into his posting more often than many do, he generally forms all of his conclusions within the context and framework of the Law of One, whether or not others agree with his assertions. He is intelligent, willing to discuss anything and everything, responds directly to the points raised, and really digs down into the information at hand, synthesizing the Law of One material with his understanding into novel and illuminating configurations of thought. His articulated understanding is – though lacking finesse, brevity, and some other qualities helpful towards harmonious interpersonal dynamics – rather sophisticated. The other moderators and I find ourselves agreeing with a surprising number of the points Unity100 raises.

The Style of Unity100
What in his postings can the moderators identify as triggering these negative reactions? Firstly, Unity100 (and I hope you’ll take note, Unity) seems to be very straightforward and focused almost exclusively on the information being debated and discussed. He doesn’t take the time to make pleasantries or acknowledge that there are energies other than academic discourse at play. While such niceties aren't precisely required for participation on a discussion forum, they do help to foster communication, understanding, and overall good vibrations among members. After all, any discussion forum is a social construct, not just an academic one. Still, this alone isn't enough to explain the negative reaction from some of our other members.

Observing further, we notice that unity100 sticks strongly to his conclusions, backing them up to whatever extent he feels necessary. This can be interpreted to be a manifestation of arrogance. As Monica pointed out to me, sometimes new members receive less understanding and accommodation than established members, because they don't have an established pattern of interaction. (Sort of like when siblings bicker even though they love each other, whereas they wouldn't tolerate such behavior in strangers.)

In any case, it is the moderators’ opinion that these matters are stylistic in nature: they amount to concerns of style, not substance. However, they are apparently enough to draw the ire from positively oriented members of Bring4th. Therefore, Unity100, the moderators, while enjoying the content and the heart of your posting immensely, would firmly request that you modify your style ever so slightly so as to work in greater harmony with the living, dynamic energies which belong to the other members of Bring4th. You can accomplish this by incorporating nods of respect and gestures of affection to those with whom you interact. We're not asking you to be false. We're just asking for some basic courtesy.

Additionally, instead of beginning your replies and rebuttals with a dismissive “no” – or with the idea of “no” – you could find creative ways to honor what the other has said, seeing value and merit even in that which you find to be fundamentally incorrect.

These changes are rather small and non-sacrificial concessions that will go a long way in this forum, Unity100. Please do what you can to follow through and you will have the appreciation of Bring4th members and the support of the moderators.

As to Unity100’s alleged judgmental attitude, I find Unity100 to be a rather even, cool, measured, and dispassionate writer. I never get the sense of strong emotion carrying him away. Where simple discernment and labeling something “as it is” – as a result of one's observation – becomes actual condemnation or judgment, is a fine line whose boundaries I am not qualified to draw. Asserting that a particular entity acts like an “adolescent celebrity” could be an objective observation of a behavior which many would describe in such a way, or it could be judgmental. I suppose the difference would be this: Discernment does not obscure the Creator nor blind the entity with feeling of separation. Judgment does.

I personally tend to see Unity100’s assessments leaning more towards discernment; however, some of his statements may well skirt the boundary between the two. Thusly, Unity100, I would suggest treading carefully when offering that which may be perceived to be judgmental, without of course compromising your truth.

(I will note here that Unity100 has written this into his signature line: “except what i refer to, all i say is my opinion or what i learned. i may or may not be correct.”)

Guideline Number 1
I have seen numerous instances of members remarking on and celebrating the harmony, the love, and the respect so present on these forums. I always try to share these statements with Carla because, while each who participates is responsible for the collective harmony, it is also a testament to the purity and the polarity of the material which Carla has been so instrumental (pun intended) in providing to the world.

The forums got this way and continue to be so positive not because everyone’s postings have intrinsically merited or earned respect, but rather because members continue to give respect regardless of whether or not it is perceived as “deserved”. We give this respect not conditionally, not only to those who "deserve" it, but we give it because in so doing we become and remember who we are and what this IS.

This does not of course mean that we all become doormats who cannot respectfully say “Adios amigo!” to one bent on violating the guidelines. This means that we seek to operate from an opened, activated, and balanced blue ray energy center in our communication:

Session #41: RA: “Green ray is the movement through various experiences of energy exchanges having to do with compassion and all-forgiving love to the primary blue ray which is the first ray of radiation of self regardless of any actions from another.”

As Monica recently said, “Regardless of Unity100’s personality flaws, putting him on the chopping block isn't a loving response. Are we to accept only those whose personalities we like? Forgiveness is always the answer to resolving conflict, not [joining up] to offer unwanted interventions on a member [being perceived as irritating].”

The abject and outright lack of respect shown to Unity100 on this thread and in others is not in keeping with the spirit of our guidelines and the desires of Carla Rueckert and Jim McCarty for these forums. In the unanimous discernment of the moderators, the first guideline has not been manifested in certain replies to Unity100.

This is by far more grievous than any charge laid at Unity100’s feet.

As one, the moderators request that this behavior cease instantly and in its place creative, loving, accepting ways be found to work out personality differences.

Please feel free to discuss this further by PM’ing the moderators or replying to this post. If you should choose to reply to this post, we may split this thread.

Thank you to everyone already doing the work of creating and sustaining harmony. Thank you for your time and thank you in advance for your continued operation within the parameters of the Bring4th Forum Guidelines. Each of you is greatly valued as a member and we do what we can to serve you and facilitate a sacred environment of shared learning and discussion. http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=63.

Love/Light,
GLB

[LsavedSmeD]

Very nicely put.

Forgiveness, and unconditional acceptance is key from my point of view, and hopefully everyone else's too.

Namaste!

[Namaste]

A very eloquent (and relevant) message GLB, thank you. If you're anything like me, that would have taken quite a while to construct. I will add openly and honestly that in my personal opinion, some of unity's writings contain language and structure that give hints to frustration/impatience/attachment. (Edit: this is an observation, not a form of judgment.) Some points I have made seem to be ignored then echoed back in another form. How we, as members, react to our own projections, are our own issues or non-issues :¬)

Unity, had some time to read more of your post, very busy at the moment so will most likely reply one bit at a time, over time.

- intellectual does NOT mean 'negative'. wisdom is NOT negative.
- you dont have to blurt out feelings of love and make declarations of love, to love.

Agreed on both points. I do not recall anyone labelling intellect with negative. It is also not necessary to show love to one another in forums, however, it's quite apt for one such as this, and hence will be expressed openly.

- if i actually talk like i normally do, i become VERY persuasive. persuasion is sometimes as infringing as an intervention. the stand offish attitude and presentation of logical and sideless arguments are of utmost necessity for avoiding infringements.

This is stated exactly by Ra, one must never force their views onto another. This is also a general 'law' throughout many 'New Age' philosophies.

- in an environment of love, noone offering words of wisdom in any way would be met and get subjected to such negativity and aggressive treatment. love goes to the extent of even accepting and embracing the outright self serving. which is actually wrong, but it does. yet, some people who are supposedly talking in the name of love, are unable to accept even someone that is offering wisdom with an open heart, and get aggravated and insulting despite the party in front of them never resorts to anything other than logical arguments. which tells volumes.

Entirely true, and something that GLB has re-iterated. This statement can be applied to yourself too, brother, as others are trying to offer you their wisdom, just as you are to them, in which is not given acceptance or love. Wisdom/knowledge/everything in this universe is subjective, and means different things to different people. All is equal.

One must also remember, as Ali mentioned, the world is a mirror. If you find yourself receiving this kind of response, sit back and think why. You are responsible for your universe - no one else. It also speaks volumes.

however ironically, i actually know that one can not even start to tell about wisdom to entities who are of love vibration. i had enough of that experience in the past. but, there are many people who are reading the forums, but not participating. it is important to voice some important points in that respect, lest those who are able, but yet newly initiated, may err in their path.

I did say I wasn't going to continue this train of thought, but a question would help us (and others) understand each other better. Can you clarify whether my assumption of your definition of wisdom is this please? Information learned from sources, about, or describing higher density lessons or messages. In such, do you consider information about energy rays, healing, pyramids, to be higher density wisdom?

one great benefit though - while discussing these and responding, i have realized that i was aware of many stuff that i didnt know i was aware of. typing things into words or telling others, makes a lot of difference.

It does, and as I have mentioned, it has helped me also.

notice, you are saying it yourself - 'fourth density and onwards' and 'As we progress we will experience the 'now', as that is all there is, but the past and the future will become less apparent'.

it is a gradual process. not instant. thoughts start to become 'things' in early 4d, and the 'time/spaceization', 'astralization' increases as the densities progress. timelessness increase. that goes on until late 7. it doesnt outright become a timeless place at the start of 4d.

This is the exact notion I was trying to put forward, brother. As we progress through fourth density, the past and the future will become less apparent. The words 'progress' and 'less apparent' were intended to indicate a gradual change.

May I suggest brother, that you give my (and others) comments a little bit more time/consideration before responding, as it seems some points are being missed and then re-iterated in the form of being corrected.

if, you consider that, and also consider that it is possible to even see the future or past, in time space of 3d, in dreams or other phenomenon. since you actually can remember some of these in your 3d conscious form, that means that in a given moment that you saw the future or past in time space, you actually were in 3d vibration, thus, it will mean in the end that there ALSO is timelessness in 3d, but, this timelesness is very limited.

Agreed entirely. There is only the eternal now, the past and future do not actually exist, only our perception of them - 'time' (which is used linearly over space). This will flip (time/space) more and more as we progress, with fourth density being the point of the change.

therefore, we are never in a truly timeless state, until we reach late 7d. it is a concept that is valid in our future. not our current place in space/time and time/space fabric.

Not sure about this, I do not recall a specific Ra quote mentioning it. A couple of other sources I trust have hinted towards late 4D and 5D being timeless. This is an area in which I try to refrain forming too crystalised an opinion on until I have experienced it, or had a download/realisation regarding it, myself.

you can be tied to a 3d body, yet your mind still can wander off in far galaxies. you can be tied to a 3d body, yet your spirit can still function in the infinity itself. BODY will not be able to manifest any higher density thoughts or feelings, or sometimes it can hurt, due to the side effects of such high density work.

Also agreed. To help clear up my perception, I think of the physical mind as the ego personality we have in 3D in which to survive and operate in this density, and hence limited to, and built for, that purpose. This does not mean our entire mind is limited, as when one functions with a whole Mind, they trust intuition, imagination, and act upon realisations and synchronicity (all aspets of the higher mind). This is my personal viewpoint.

Agreed, Wanderers may indeed have a special purpose. I do recall a quote stating that living in love and peace was general to all Wanderers. I will try and find it.

no sir, wrong. two outright examples; thomas jefferson, benjamin franklin. they didnt live in love and peace. they didnt respond to everything with love. they actually staged a revolution, and participated in starting and concluding an armed conflict. their mission was probably to contribute/effect the establishment of a more freedom centered societal structure free of chains. so far, they succeeded in their lifetime.

This does not imply that operating from the heart is not part of the plan. This implies that they focused on a specific function. Here are some Q'uo quotes to give you something to consider about the lessons of love in this density.

A very profound quote, which was the basis for my signature :¬)

...but it is just as important to share it in a way that expresses the quality of the open and flowing heart that is grounded in trust and shaped to express that love which flows through the instrument of the human body, mind and spirit in an infinite supply at all times. This is the heart of the mission shared by all those who are awakening upon planet Earth at this time.

Another aspect of being a wanderer, which is common to those from elsewhere and to those who are native to the Earth sphere, is the enormous yearning to serve. And we say to each that the main service of each of you is the service of being yourself. For when you are most truly and deeply yourself, when your heart is open and vibrating in its fullness, you become a crystal capable of receiving energy, transmuting energy and releasing energy into the Earth’s sphere. Many of you from other planets have come here specifically to do this. It is a simple process. You breathe in. You breathe out. You allow the truth to flow through you. You allow the infinite supply of energy that is the love of the Creator to flow through your energetic system and out into the Earth planes, and as you bless this process, encourage it, you intensify and enhance those vibrations that move into the Earth plane

For truly we say to you, to the best of our knowledge, each has a destiny. Each has a mission. Each has come into incarnation with gifts to share, with a mission to fulfill, a service to do, and with learning to accomplish. The learning is always about love. The serving is always about trusting in the rightness of the moment.

Another favourite:

You see, it is the love with which you do things that radiates; it is not the things that you do. Among your peoples this has been much misunderstood, for people look to see if there is some service that can be their spiritual gift to the world. They are looking for a dramatic role to play, to teach or to heal or to prophesy. And yet these things are forever secondary to the primary mission of each of you upon this particular planet in this particular density at this time. The mission before each of you is simply to address all of that which comes to you with an open heart, just that.

This is probably the most inspirational quote for me, so wonderful.

You came among these entities of flesh and bone. You took that flesh upon yourself and buried yourself in a world of shadows because you wished to make a difference. You heard the sorrow of those who dwell with you now. And you wished to stand among them as a witness and as one who was a channel for love. This is your great chance. These are the days you hoped and prepared for, and now the time is upon you, and how quickly, my friends, it is going. Is it not?

All are from this page on L/L Research. I recommend that all reading this re-read and bookmark it, as it has proven invaluable to me for continued inspiration.

I have to get on now, and will reply to more as time permits.

L&L

[unity100]

the analysis was good.

i will expend care not to use direct words like 'no'. however i will try remaining unbiased, because i dont want to persuade anyone. the stuff i am attempting to discuss goes around the borderline of being infringement on other adepts' work. if i remember right, ra didnt relay much information regarding these, especially work of 7d, to refrain from infringing on the work of the adepts that were going to read the material.

in another note, some subjects are too sensitive for people of certain groups. for example, imagine a thread discussing the orion influence in middle eastern religions. ra outright says that ten commandments were delivered by a negative orion group who have passed the quarantine. not only that but they continued influencing the area for some time more, probably creating various event chains that found their way to various philosophies/religions from the area. even proposal of such things may be too much for certain individuals. and when seeing such a discussion, they may get aggravated and aggressive, nomatter how much love you pour into the subject. its conditioning. it is inevitable that these people will have to leave those attachments behind, and stop identifying with those if they want to move forward. most of us, i guess, have done it. i myself have done it and took a considerable time. however im glad i did it.

but, there are probably countries even, in which possessing books like Ra, or other channeled material is possibly illegal. blasphemy punishable by law. back in 1980s, there could be no contact with people of those countries, and people of others. but now there is internet. these people can easily find places like this forum, meeting with material they cant even dare possessing and talking about in their countries openly. and these people may have reactions. on one side stands the appeasement of them, by stifling discussion of such sensitive subjects, on the other hand stands the free flow of energies and information.

as for me, im not expecting anything from anyone. im not expecting love, or respect or attention or anything like these. someone who is not ready to think about or does not like what im saying thinking 'some random schmuck' about me and easily ignoring me is much more desirable than loving me or getting affected by my compassion and then warming up to some ideas and though that s/he isnt ready for or compatible with.

---

o will add openly and honestly that in my personal opinion, some of unity's writings contain language and structure that give hints to frustration/impatience/attachment. (Edit: this is an observation, not a form of judgment.) Some points I have made seem to be ignored then echoed back in another form. How we, as members, react to our own projections, are our own issues or non-issues :¬)

im doing as such, when i see a train of thought that is not going to produce anything. i just drop them then.

I did say I wasn't going to continue this train of thought, but a question would help us (and others) understand each other better. Can you clarify whether my assumption of your definition of wisdom is this please? Information learned from sources, about, or describing higher density lessons or messages. In such, do you consider information about energy rays, healing, pyramids, to be higher density wisdom?

they definitely are. knowledge of the workings of energy bodies, energy centers, their spiritual meanings, metaphysical meanings, the work of healing by using these are all higher density work. i would venture far to say that late 4d to 5d. it is, basically, working on energies to reshape energy models, provided that the recipient accepts.

if we bring the pyramid into the equation, it becomes even more so. it is a metaphysical structure that has various delicate properties that can be used for various aims. especially one of the uses is the initiation of the adept in the room at the bottom of the pyramid. 'adept' is no 3d concept, or business.

and remember how Ra says that the aim of the king's room is to disrupt the violet ray of the entity that is to be healed, and then the healer can work on fixing the blockages. and remember how Ra also says, a sufficiently balanced entity is like a portable king's room himself/herself. that places the function of king's room as 7th ray. which is, naturally, not 3d at all.

It does, and as I have mentioned, it has helped me also.

that is great, and this was one of the aims.

This is the exact notion I was trying to put forward, brother. As we progress through fourth density, the past and the future will become less apparent. The words 'progress' and 'less apparent' were intended to indicate a gradual change.

May I suggest brother, that you give my (and others) comments a little bit more time/consideration before responding, as it seems some points are being missed and then re-iterated in the form of being corrected.

on the contrary. im reiterating some concepts, because the concept needs precise identification not to leave for any mistakes :

you do realize that the 'astralification' is a gradual process, but, you still also say that we are all one, and we are timeless, even as in 3d. (or passing into 4d). im reiterating because that is in our future, not our present. we are only X amount 'one' and timeless as of now. if it was otherwise, there would be no physical existence, there would be no movement (everything would be in the same place) hence, there would be no time, and consequently there would be nothing at all.

this is the reason for my reiteration.

Not sure about this, I do not recall a specific Ra quote mentioning it. A couple of other sources I trust have hinted towards late 4D and 5D being timeless. This is an area in which I try to refrain forming too crystalised an opinion on until I have experienced it, or had a download/realisation regarding it, myself.

i remember many cases in which moving about in time was discussed in Ra. a direct example in book 5 is Ra going back in time in time/space to see what was causing the malfunction of the tape recorder.

in various places 'time being less a factor' was mentioned too.

but, being able to go back/forth in time is not same with timeless. time, basically as we know it, is the change of existence. things move in position compared to each other, energies change to various other forms or densities or vibrations, ie, change occurs, and therefore there is a measurable difference in between the point in past, and point in present. when everything is truly one, there will be no change. no movement. no time. because everything will be 'none'.

however this will never happen for us. what Ra calls intelligent infinity, some call creator, ie, 'us', is not infinity itself. it is one step below infinity. (remember how Ra described creation came into being in the first pages of first books). so, we will never be truly timeless, but, probably get very close to it.

as for 7d and on getting near timeless, it is a direct corollary : since the infinite intelligence, (aka 'creator') is the closest thing to infinity that exists, when any entity goes back to it, and becomes one with it (increasing its spiritual mass according to the einstein's equation in the process, as don noted), it will become close to infinite. meaning, it will be everything, and therefore because it is everything, time, will cease to exist for it (as much as you can approximate infinity as infinite intelligence), also the space will cease to exist. so, timelessness will be real. however, these all will be real for anything that is inside it, smaller than it (the non infinite).

This does not imply that operating from the heart is not part of the plan. This implies that they focused on a specific function. Here are some Q'uo quotes to give you something to consider about the lessons of love in this density.

the point here is that - note how such an act, ie, instigating, supporting an armed conflict for a revolution would be seen as negative, self serving, evil by many who maintain unbounded love to be the purpose of wanderers.

[Monica]

the point here is that - note how such an act, ie, instigating, supporting an armed conflict for a revolution would be seen as negative, self serving, evil by many who maintain unbounded love to be the purpose of wanderers.

It is also possible that those Wanderers fell short of their ideal, or that they did the best they could under the circumstances. Did Ra make any kind of assessment about their support of violence?

---

for example, imagine a thread discussing the orion influence in middle eastern religions. ra outright says that ten commandments were delivered by a negative orion group who have passed the quarantine. not only that but they continued influencing the area for some time more, probably creating various event chains that found their way to various philosophies/religions from the area. even proposal of such things may be too much for certain individuals. and when seeing such a discussion, they may get aggravated and aggressive, nomatter how much love you pour into the subject. its conditioning.

This can be true even for those with roots in the Christian religion, who have the same historical roots in their religion.

[unity100]

It is also possible that those Wanderers fell short of their ideal, or that they did the best they could under the circumstances. Did Ra make any kind of assessment about their support of violence?

---

they didnt. but, it is noteworthy that, contrary to general practice, when don asked about two persons that he thought they might have been wanderers, ra replied negative, and advised don that he would do better to take the examples of thomas and benjamin, without being asked. it somewhat feels like they wanted these examples to be considered.

my understanding is that, they were in between 5 to 6th. the possibility of being 6th much stronger. if we compare their life and actions to those we know to be from 4d (mother theresa, st augustine), the difference presents itself.

strong ability to communicate well and clear and inspire indicates strong blue ray activity. visionary, uniting, empowering features indicate 6th ray activity. (actually there are a lot more features). principles of freedom, equality, respect and more.

a similar parallel can be drawn with Frankie d Roosevelt. he also didnt meet aggression and violence with roses in his arms.

This can be true even for those with roots in the Christian religion, who have the same historical roots in their religion.

actually i would venture as far to say that, any thought/ideology/religion out of that particular zone - caanan/middle east. orion group have done some work there for some time.

[Monica]

my understanding is that, they were in between 5 to 6th. the possibility of being 6th much stronger. if we compare their life and actions to those we know to be from 4d (mother theresa, st augustine), the difference presents itself.

strong ability to communicate well and clear and inspire indicates strong blue ray activity. visionary, uniting, empowering features indicate 6th ray activity. (actually there are a lot more features). principles of freedom, equality, respect and more.

a similar parallel can be drawn with Frankie d Roosevelt. he also didnt meet aggression and violence with roses in his arms.

That doesn't necessarily mean that they thought violence was optimal or even acceptable. We know from Q'uo (see this session) that dependence on violence as a means of resolving conflict is a key element to the low/slow progress here, ie. an acceptance of violence is keeping people from becoming harvestable.

Thus, my interpretation of those Wanderers' willingness to utilize violence is that they did so because they had a long-term vision, and the long-term vision was more important than short-term goals like feeding the poor, as a 4D Wanderer like Mother Theresa focused on. (I think we agree on this.) Both goals are noble, but a statesman like Jefferson or Franklin incarnated for a very specific purpose. The fact that they utilized violence to achieve that purpose was an indication of just how violent our culture was, ie. violence was necessary because of circumstances, not because it was ideal.

The fact that they were able to do whatever was necessary to accomplish bigger, grander, long-term goals like instituting ideals of freedom, is a testament to their higher-density wisdom. I agree on this point, but wished to clarify that this doesn't necessarily indicate that violence is to be embraced. I'm certain that, had it been possible to accomplish their goals without violence, they would have.

actually i would venture as far to say that, any thought/ideology/religion out of that particular zone - caanan/middle east. orion group have done some work there for some time.

Agreed. The Abrahamic religions all have common roots. Likewise, those of Eastern influences, or any other, may have different conditioning. We all have some sort of conditioning, to some degree or another, and are in the process of shedding that conditioning.

I remember when I first realized, on my own, that the Bible had negative stuff in it. Then I read the Law of One, and was astounded to learn about the basis for my conclusions (the Orion influence). Had I read that a few years earlier, I would have cast it aside.

[unity100]

That doesn't necessarily mean that they thought violence was optimal or even acceptable. We know from Q'uo (see this session) that dependence on violence as a means of resolving conflict is a key element to the low/slow progress here, ie. an acceptance of violence is keeping people from becoming harvestable.

Thus, my interpretation of those Wanderers' willingness to utilize violence is that they did so because they had a long-term vision, and the long-term vision was more important than short-term goals like feeding the poor, as a 4D Wanderer like Mother Theresa focused on. (I think we agree on this.) Both goals are noble, but a statesman like Jefferson or Franklin incarnated for a very specific purpose. The fact that they utilized violence to achieve that purpose was an indication of just how violent our culture was, ie. violence was necessary because of circumstances, not because it was ideal.

there is an important distinction that needs to be made here - they didnt use violence to pursue their goals - they defended their goals when met with violent aggression.

their choice would be either accepting the aggression of the enslaving forces with love, therefore forfeiting their ideals, or defending their ideals with force.

there is a distinction of defense here. and this is a deep matter.

had this been a higher density, they could have used light, or various other means to hold off the aggression. but, incarnated 3d experience is one that doesnt provide for such strength. instead it is very easy to remove an incarnated entity from earth, using physical means. especially, considering that back in 18th century there wasnt even a green ray vibration about. so, it was either physical, or else.

The fact that they were able to do whatever was necessary to accomplish bigger, grander, long-term goals like instituting ideals of freedom, is a testament to their higher-density wisdom. I agree on this point, but wished to clarify that this doesn't necessarily indicate that violence is to be embraced. I'm certain that, had it been possible to accomplish their goals without violence, they would have.

if by violence you mean, using force to force various ideals, yes, i agree.

but at their point in time, it was impossible for them not to defend their ideals by force.

I remember when I first realized, on my own, that the Bible had negative stuff in it. Then I read the Law of One, and was astounded to learn about the basis for my conclusions (the Orion influence). Had I read that a few years earlier, I would have cast it aside.

imagine what i experienced in that fashion, when i came from islam to that point.

[Pablísimo]

It is also possible that those Wanderers fell short of their ideal, or that they did the best they could under the circumstances. Did Ra make any kind of assessment about their support of violence?

---

they didnt. but, it is noteworthy that, contrary to general practice, when don asked about two persons that he thought they might have been wanderers, ra replied negative, and advised don that he would do better to take the examples of thomas and benjamin, without being asked. it somewhat feels like they wanted these examples to be considered.

Unity, could you please share with me your interpretation of the following quote:

12.28 Questioner: Are most of these from the fourth density? Or what density do they come from?

Ra: I am Ra. Few there are of fourth density. The largest number of Wanderers, as you call them, are of the sixth density. The desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery, depending upon your distortion complex judgment. The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom of which it had incarnated to avert the destruction.

12.29 Questioner: What could one of these entities do to become karmically involved? Could you give an example of that?

Ra: I am Ra. An entity which acts in a consciously unloving manner in action with other beings can become karmically involved.

I ask for an alternate interpretation because, to me, this seems like Ra is stating (admittedly by implication only) that becoming karmically involved is something to be AVOIDED by Wanderers. They then go on to state that one can become karmically involved by acting in a consciously unloving manner in action with other beings. I truly can think of no other situation that fits this description better than armed conflict between groups of people acting in a consciously unloving manner (ie shooting at eachother).

Can violence really be acceptable for a Wanderer? And if it is, doesn't that lead to karmic entanglement when done consciously in a war setting?


------

BTW...

As you noted, unfortunately, Ra did not go into much detail regarding these incarnations. I respect your interpretation that you feel that their armed conflict led to enhanced Freedom, however my own personal assumption for why Ra never went into much detail on the founding of America or its key players was because it is quite likely that the negative elite had a major hand in the formation of the United States. I won't dwell on it since it's not covered in the Ra material, but I believe there is evidence that the US was designed at least in part to give the illusion of freedom while continuing to keep the population enslaved and also to use the "new land" as a new center of power/launching point for attempts at control of the people of other nations. Let us not forget the state of bondage of the African people brought to that land and the wanton destruction and robbery that took place on a massive scale of the Native American peoples during that time period. The place was crawling with Freemasons, etc, and I ALWAYS assumed that since Ra was so careful to avoid transient information or infringing on freewill, that this was the reason they never went into depth on Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin... to do so would have opened a major can of metaphysical worms. However, I am open to an alternate interpretation and welcome any thoughts you have to share on this aspect.

Love to all

[Steppingfeet]

Namaste wrote:If you're anything like me, that would have taken quite a while to construct. I will add openly and honestly that in my personal opinion, some of unity's writings contain language and structure that give hints to frustration/impatience/attachment. (Edit: this is an observation, not a form of judgment.) Some points I have made seem to be ignored then echoed back in another form. How we, as members, react to our own projections, are our own issues or non-issues :¬)

Hi Namaste, thank you, and indeed you are like me, or I am like you, because I fret over every word. When I am finished writing, I reread and fret some more. And when I am through with the second go-around, I do it again. This makes for a time and energy-consuming ordeal of writing. : )

In my humble opinion, I believe that Unity100 is not adept in the interpersonal communication department. As varied, wide, and probing as his conclusions, questions, and hypotheses may be, I think he has room for growth in relating his understanding to other living human beings who may possess understandings at variance with his own.

I believe and hope that we can all help Unity to grow in this particular line of development by lovingly reflecting back to him where it is that our buttons are being pushed, not with the intent to change him, per se, but with the aim of providing loving, blue-ray mirrors, communicating through our hearts how we feel hurt or mistreated or judged.

Unity100, being an ardent and sincere student of spiritual evolution, would hopefully take the initiative and use the prompting to engage in self-reflection and make an honest attempt to work in concert with those with whom disharmony has been engendered into order to reach resolution.

Unity, I believe, would much prefer to target the information being discussed rather than the people discussing it, but people - the souls participating in these forums - cannot be separated from the equation. As I was sharing with Peregrinus in a recent PM, we are here not so much to comprehend a body of information (however profound that information may be), but to realize the self reading the information. The material being discussed is simply a vehicle towards that end.

When there is disharmony present, we must first address those issues. One of Carla's cardinal rules of thumb is to place relationships before business. If there is disharmony within and among the members of L/L Research, or between her and anyone else, her first energy expenditure goes to reestablishing harmony -- even if that happens at the expense of the task at hand. (Though sometimes personal feelings need to be set aside to accomplish the task at hand, e.g., shoring up a flooding riverbank with sand bags, having your spotter lift the suddenly overly heavy barbell from your chest.)

That multiple people have had similar reactions to Unity100 suggests that there is something real and hopefully identifiable happening that cannot be ignored. All involved parties need to spend some time determining what the heck is actually happening, bringing it to the light of conscious attention so that it may be loved, accepted, and forgiven, and the window of opportunity closed for any would-be negative greeters seeking to disrupt the resilient and scintillating harmony of the Bring4th forums.

Unity100 wrote:the analysis was good.

No, not quite. You are incorrect. The analysis was freakin' awesome. Please review the analysis until you reach the same conclusion.



Just busting the spherical objects of reproductive capacity.

Unity100 wrotei will expend care not to use direct words like 'no'.

Thank you so much for seeking to be cooperative, Unity100, sincerely. The moderators sole function is to lovingly enforce the guidelines and to preserve and promote the integrity and harmony of the forums. We are committed to working through this issue and any other arises until the kinks are no more.

Unity100 wrotehowever i will try remaining unbiased, because i dont want to persuade anyone. the stuff i am attempting to discuss goes around the borderline of being infringement on other adepts' work. if i remember right, ra didnt relay much information regarding these, especially work of 7d, to refrain from infringing on the work of the adepts that were going to read the material.

I respect that you feel you possess a certain depth of understanding which, in consideration for others, you refrain from sharing. However, I'm not sure that any human being is in the position of the higher density social memory complex.

Ra knew that they were put into a position of authority. They also knew that they could in a heartbeat tell Don what the source of a particular imbalance was or what course of action he could take to alleviate it or who he was in past lives or who the second gunman on the grassy knoll was. From their evolutionary position, they have access to all of this information and they knew that the information, coupled with the authority ascribed their words, would be taken as truth and put into effect in the entity's life pattern, thereby circumventing the possibility of entity learning for itself through blind choice.

While a human (being the Creator) can know and become the One, dissolving all illusions, I still t believe that the human entity (however much the humanness has been transcended) has neither the overview that Ra possessed nor the capacity to infringe on free will the way Ra could.

As far as I understand it, if you are operating within the third density in a yellow-ray, chemical body, you are free to share your truth and serve to the extent it is requested without fear of infringing by doing the learning for the other self. Though I could be wrong.

If you have something to share which you feel is profound and relevant to the discussion at hand, please do so. If members of the forums or the moderators suspect that "infringing" is taking place, then we will kindly ask that the activity be discontinued.

Unity100 wrote:in another note, some subjects are too sensitive for people of certain groups. for example, imagine a thread discussing the orion influence in middle eastern religions. ra outright says that ten commandments were delivered by a negative orion group who have passed the quarantine.

Some subjects are, I agree, highly sensitive. But sensitive subjects can certainly be discussed with the appropriate care and tact applied to the discussion. (See the threads about sexuality.)

I think if the entity seeking to discuss highly sensitive material were to ask themselves, "How can I share this in a way which respects my audience? How can I word this so as to not trigger emotional reactions? How can I deliver this in a way which moves through the open heart?", it would not prove impossible to navigate through the tripwires of sensitive material.

That you raise this issue, though, shows that part of your thinking is indeed dedicated to considering the impact (negative or otherwise) your thoughts may have on others, and I thank you for this. In my humble opinion, more thinking in this direction will help balance the head-first plunges into extravagant intellectual discourse.

Unity100: not only that but they continued influencing the area for some time more, probably creating various event chains that found their way to various philosophies/religions from the area. even proposal of such things may be too much for certain individuals. and when seeing such a discussion, they may get aggravated and aggressive, nomatter how much love you pour into the subject. its conditioning. it is inevitable that these people will have to leave those attachments behind, and stop identifying with those if they want to move forward. most of us, i guess, have done it. i myself have done it and took a considerable time. however im glad i did it.

I agree, conditioning is par for the human course, it is something that no one escapes and only the enlightened, as far as I know, completely transcend and release. But, a word to the wise: it tends not to sit well with others when you tell them that their viewpoints are arising out of "conditioning". It really comes across condescendingly. Valid, monumental points can be neatly communicated without resorting to identifying someone else's disagreement with you as being the result of or influenced by "conditioning".

Unity100 wrote:but, there are probably countries even, in which possessing books like Ra, or other channeled material is possibly illegal. blasphemy punishable by law. back in 1980s, there could be no contact with people of those countries, and people of others. but now there is internet. these people can easily find places like this forum, meeting with material they cant even dare possessing and talking about in their countries openly. and these people may have reactions. on one side stands the appeasement of them, by stifling discussion of such sensitive subjects, on the other hand stands the free flow of energies and information.

You posit a legitimate and plausible scenario, however, this is not one we have yet encountered as far as I'm aware. No one of fundamentalist mindset has angrily shut down or subdued the course of discussion due to a dogmatic disposition.

It is a fine balance to strike between respecting the fullness and the truth of a discussion and respecting the sensitivities of the Bring4th members.

On the particular point of some (if not all) of the planet's holy works being corrupted by negative influence, I think that virtually everyone who participates in these forums has already accepted this basic premise.

Unity100 wrote: as for me, im not expecting anything from anyone. im not expecting love, or respect or attention or anything like these.

In that case, then, you won't be imbalanced by something less than love sent your way and you will hopefully be able to give love, in your own particular way, without the necessity of return.

The moderators, however, while being unable to make people give love to one another, are mandated to act in order to curb something other than the free giving of respect and love.

Unity100 wrote:someone who is not ready to think about or does not like what im saying thinking 'some random schmuck'...

I wouldn't say you're "some random schmuck".

You're not random at all!

Lots of love, from one schmuck to another.

[unity100]

I ask for an alternate interpretation because, to me, this seems like Ra is stating (admittedly by implication only) that becoming karmically involved is something to be AVOIDED by Wanderers. They then go on to state that one can become karmically involved by acting in a consciously unloving manner in action with other beings. I truly can think of no other situation that fits this description better than armed conflict between groups of people acting in a consciously unloving manner (ie shooting at eachother).

Can violence really be acceptable for a Wanderer? And if it is, doesn't that lead to karmic entanglement when done consciously in a war setting?

lets approach it from higher above, and come down towards our density ;

there are innumerable principles or higher density entities that are overseeing many things. ranging from devas to entities higher selves to local logoi to heaven knows what else galactic or even universal entities and principles and groups.

even as of now, there are happening many acts of violence. an entity is beating his wife, according to a life plan/pattern laid out by its higher self. (or himself too, if the entity is advanced enough). another entity is as of now killing someone, either in defense or with foul intent, by using his body. principles or entities or elements overseeing the functioning of body complexes are allowing the body to lift the arm and shoot another body dead. some groups in some social constructs around the world are killing and executing some other groups within or outside themselves. local logos is allowing these to happen. despite the fact that it, or similar larger entities or groups in higher densities can stop any of these events. actually, these are happening according to the plans the logos and higher entities laid out. leave all these aside, the entities that are performing the lifetaker duty are taking the lives of countless entities around the galaxy.

are they functioning without love ? are they being violent ?

As you noted, unfortunately, Ra did not go into much detail regarding these incarnations. I respect your interpretation that you feel that their armed conflict led to enhanced Freedom, however my own ........... or can of metaphysical worms. However, I am open to an alternate interpretation and welcome any thoughts you have to share on this aspect.

these are more conspiracy theories than easily analyzable historical facts. it is high chance that the societies, groups formed by that point may have transformed into power structures by this point. and actually that happening so was probably inevitable.

but at the time they were formed, all those societies, clubs in america and europe, seeking the freedom and equality of all people, freedom from shackles of negative hierarchical feudal constructs, were as positive as they could be in regard to freedom. examine society of Cincinnati, and how all the prominent members of the american revolution have stuck with its principles, and how important they were.

these entities had every chance to be powerful and stay in positions of power. they didnt need to maintain any illusion. however, after the example of Cincinnatus (the example roman - they named the society after him), washington turned down the position of king, when it was offered to him. and he and his comrades took every precaution to prevent establishment of an elite class in any way they could have conceived.

the 'any way they could have conceived' part is very important here. back in 1789, they took measures against anything they could imagine. but, they didnt think that, personal wealth and companies could grow so large that they could become king-level powers themselves. they did warn against banks and tried to take measures against them. but, they didnt think that anyone, any small "Shackington & Thawthing" like named corporation or group could grow so large that they could dwarf countries in power within and outside the country.

---

Ra knew that they were put into a position of authority. They also knew that they could in a heartbeat tell Don what the source of a particular imbalance was or what course of action he could take to alleviate it or who he was in past lives or who the second gunman on the grassy knoll was. From their evolutionary position, they have access to all of this information and they knew that the information, coupled with the authority ascribed their words, would be taken as truth and put into effect in the entity's life pattern, thereby circumventing the possibility of entity learning for itself through blind choice.

While a human (being the Creator) can know and become the One, dissolving all illusions, I still t believe that the human entity (however much the humanness has been transcended) has neither the overview that Ra possessed nor the capacity to infringe on free will the way Ra could.

As far as I understand it, if you are operating within the third density in a yellow-ray, chemical body, you are free to share your truth and serve to the extent it is requested without fear of infringing by doing the learning for the other self. Though I could be wrong.

If you have something to share which you feel is profound and relevant to the discussion at hand, please do so. If members of the forums or the moderators suspect that "infringing" is taking place, then we will kindly ask that the activity be discontinued.

there is an important catch here.

any entity can, at any given point receive any kind of information from any given source, provided that the conditions are right. the nature of this information can be anything.

this is especially more so for wanderers, who, as we have been told, at this point in time, were (mainly) entities from 6d, having already been working with the logoi as co creators, and having access to much information, before getting incarnated here.

and as Ra says, it was seen that there were as many methods as the imagination or intuition of the entities can conceive of, consciously or unconsciously, to penetrate the veil.

that means any entity in a wanderer's position can penetrate the veil by chance in a way that, s/he can get access to information that s/he knew before birth, OR, even, can connect directly to intelligent infinity consciously or unconsciously, and get whatever info that chances to be available at that junction in time/space at that given point in our time.

and what any information can allow entities to do, is boundless.

at this point it would be wise to remember how the atlantean entities used the information they have been given/gleamed (through the very use of pyramids i might add, or similar methods), not to heal themselves, but to create lifeforms to serve them as underlings, and engage in war.

also worthy of remembering is how the information tesla left have been used to create destructive weapons akin to ufos, going half the speed of light and using psychotronic and beam weapons.

also it is worthy of remembering that, how the negative entity rasputin, remembered the atlantean experiences and learning by intuition, and used them to polarize negatively.

.............

thus, there are innumerable ways to gain information. and any seemingly innocent opinion, information we share here, may be a piece of information that could affect many things. one piece of information we impart here, may come up as a consequence a few billion years later in a different point in time/space.

it actually already did.

[Pablísimo]

lets approach it from higher above, and come down towards our density ;

there are innumerable principles or higher density entities that are overseeing many things. ranging from devas to entities higher selves to local logoi to heaven knows what else galactic or even universal entities and principles and groups.

even as of now, there are happening many acts of violence. an entity is beating his wife, according to a life plan/pattern laid out by its higher self. (or himself too, if the entity is advanced enough). another entity is as of now killing someone, either in defense or with foul intent, by using his body. principles or entities or elements overseeing the functioning of body complexes are allowing the body to lift the arm and shoot another body dead. some groups in some social constructs around the world are killing and executing some other groups within or outside themselves. local logos is allowing these to happen. despite the fact that it, or similar larger entities or groups in higher densities can stop any of these events. actually, these are happening according to the plans the logos and higher entities laid out. leave all these aside, the entities that are performing the lifetaker duty are taking the lives of countless entities around the galaxy.

are they functioning without love ? are they being violent ?

Thank you for your thoughts on the matter, Unity100, I will contemplate them further today.

However.....at first glance, I don't really see the connection between these ideas you have written and my request for an interpretation of that specific Ra quote -- where Ra seemed to be advising Wanderers against Karmic entanglement and then explaining that one can become karmically involved by acting in a consciously unloving fashion in concert with other beings. That little section in and of itself seems to imply, to me at least, that participation in armed conflict is not advisable for a Wanderer. It also seems to imply, (again, to me) that conversely ACTING in a consciously LOVING fashion is recommended for Wanderers.

Admittedly, sometimes topics like this take a while for me to digest, so I will give it some more thought and re-read your post later today to see if that helps. I confess I am pretty firmly in the camp that Love is the appropriate response for Wanderers in a 3D body and positively polarizing 3D souls alike. That said, I have resonated with some of the concepts you have described in earlier posts and am open to expanding my mind on this topic. Frankly, I'm not sure about my own Wanderer status (Maybe so, maybe not, I don't know). But I have long had a fundamental assumption that the answer to that question doesn't really matter because the mission of a Wanderer here is to help raise the consciousness and help others polarize positively (as a magnet impacts unpolarized iron)... and the mission of a 3D soul getting ready to graduate is to polarize positively and lift their consciousness. That made the "Am I, Am I not?" question become totally academic. However, the heart of your proposal seems to be that there is a different standard or set of behaviors/ethics that is distinct for Wanderers. Indeed that Wanderers should focus on things beyond purely Love and positive polarity. Now, I don't mean to put words in your mouth, that is merely my interpretation of what I have heard you say recently.

Thanks again for sharing your perspective, brother.

P.S. Though it is not my place to comment at length, I believe Gary gave you some very good advice on style and approach. I recently participated in a very heated discussion on another volatile topic and experienced a similar lesson in delivery. I would take it to heart.

Love to all

[unity100]

However.....at first glance, I don't really see the connection between these ideas you have written and my request for an interpretation of that specific Ra quote -- where Ra seemed to be advising Wanderers against Karmic entanglement and then explaining that one can become karmically involved by acting in a consciously unloving fashion in concert with other beings. That little section in and of itself seems to imply, to me at least, that participation in armed conflict is not advisable for a Wanderer. It also seems to imply, (again, to me) that conversely ACTING in a consciously LOVING fashion is recommended for Wanderers.

the point is simple.

none of the entities mentioned above are acting without love. they are acting with the green ray vibration being present in their vibration spectrum. (provided that their position is one of a higher density). yet, they are allowing killings, deaths, exploitations, abuses, and even more. some, are planning such events, as higher selves or others.

notice that what Ra said there doesnt involve any particular action, but notes down the prerequisite for karmic involvement as acting unloving.

therefore, if you kill an individual, by accepting that individual fully, and viewing it as an integral part of existence of us all, will it be a karmic involvement ?

is a vet who puts an animal to sleep (most can be 3d entities, due to investment), getting karmically involved ?

is a doctor, who performs euthanasia on a patient, getting karmically involved ?

and even a greater question - lets say that one is in a position that s/he can save millions from nuclear destruction by killing an individual that is going to initiate a nuclear device. will s/he get karmically involved by killing that individual ?

what does s/he do ?

does s/he refrain from killing that individual and saving millions from a catastrophic death, or, does s/he kill that individual and do the otherwise ?

but, since this is a huge affair, is it possible that, this event might have been planned to happen and s/he may disrupt the flow of fate and put it in a different flow, by killing the individual ?

or, since s/he is already there, and in a position to prevent it, does it mean that this event is designed to be preventable ? and will s/he fail by not preventing it ?

..........

at this point we should remember that the guardians, confederation members existing then, allowed the maldek entities destroy their planet, and devolve into a tangle of fear of consciousness. were they acting out of love, or where they acting without love ?

However, the heart of your proposal seems to be that there is a different standard or set of behaviors/ethics that is distinct for Wanderers. Indeed that Wanderers should focus on things beyond purely Love and positive polarity. Now, I don't mean to put words in your mouth, that is merely my interpretation of what I have heard you say recently.

as far as i know, the laws of existence acts as the same for all entities, and all are responsible for their actions regardless.

yet, there may be more responsibility for wanderers in that, they are of higher densities, hence know more, also can vibrate in higher frequencies, and therefore these, according to law of responsibility, may bring more responsibilities for them.

[Turtle]

the point is simple.

none of the entities mentioned above are acting without love. they are acting with the green ray vibration being present in their vibration spectrum. (provided that their position is one of a higher density). yet, they are allowing killings, deaths, exploitations, abuses, and even more. some, are planning such events, as higher selves or others.

notice that what Ra said there doesnt involve any particular action, but notes down the prerequisite for karmic involvement as acting unloving.

therefore, if you kill an individual, by accepting that individual fully, and viewing it as an integral part of existence of us all, will it be a karmic involvement ?

is a vet who puts an animal to sleep (most can be 3d entities, due to investment), getting karmically involved ?

is a doctor, who performs euthanasia on a patient, getting karmically involved ?

and even a greater question - lets say that one is in a position that s/he can save millions from nuclear destruction by killing an individual that is going to initiate a nuclear device. will s/he get karmically involved by killing that individual ?

what does s/he do ?

does s/he refrain from killing that individual and saving millions from a catastrophic death, or, does s/he kill that individual and do the otherwise ?

but, since this is a huge affair, is it possible that, this event might have been planned to happen and s/he may disrupt the flow of fate and put it in a different flow, by killing the individual ?

or, since s/he is already there, and in a position to prevent it, does it mean that this event is designed to be preventable ? and will s/he fail by not preventing it ?

I would imagine the degree of karma you "obtain" depends heavily on whether or not you can forgive yourself or do forgive yourself for your actions, once truly understanding your intent for the event or actions you took. This would take 100% honesty with yourself, and would most likely happen for most people in a review session after the incarnation has been over. If you could not "find it in your heart", for lack of a better term, to forgive yourself or the other person, then I am sure you would have to take further measures to balance your karma. This would get more complicated of course depending on what actually happened (ex. if your actions involved the deaths of 20 people you shot in a blind rage..how then would it work with all 20 people considered? I do not feel the need to take it this far in contemplation).

Not only the intent of the persons involved is heavily important, but also the perspective they have on themselves and each other once in an after-life review session. This is how I see it at this time.

Godspeed!

[unity100]

Let me tell you what i truly think ;

action has reactions, and they eventually return to the initiator. there is no stopping that. it may be stopped, as Ra says, by forgiving, or, with the initiative of a higher principle/entity. but, i think this doesnt change anything in the long run. all actions and their consequences need to return to their initiators eventually. even if they take 2 octaves to return. it doesnt need to be 'karmic', with our without love. it seems to be a basic principle. only in full infinity, where there no action and reaction exists, these endless infractions, refractions, cause-effects and the cycles can stop, because there is nothing, but stillness then.

so, in a way, it may not matter what you do, and with what intent you do, because towards infinity, everything will need to be balanced. what matters is, which chain of events string, you want to follow towards infinity.

[Turtle]

I agree with your concept. It would seem (by Ra's viewpoint) that if you forgive yourself truly for an act, then you do not have the karmic bond any longer to balance out. I would imagine that some acts take several lifetimes to balance, and others you could balance within a kind of meditative reflection session...all depending on various factors of course.

Godspeed!

[unity100]

I agree with your concept. It would seem (by Ra's viewpoint) that if you forgive yourself truly for an act, then you do not have the karmic bond any longer to balance out. I would imagine that some acts take several lifetimes to balance, and others you could balance within a kind of meditative reflection session...all depending on various factors of course.

Godspeed!

i extend it well beyond that scope.

forgiving yourself, being forgiven, the karma being stopped by a higher entity/principle, may stop the consequences for a given period. that period may be a few densities, a few lifetimes, or even this whole octave. but, i dont think it ever can stop the action-reaction chain.

[Turtle]

i extend it well beyond that scope.

forgiving yourself, being forgiven, the karma being stopped by a higher entity/principle, may stop the consequences for a given period. that period may be a few densities, a few lifetimes, or even this whole octave. but, i dont think it ever can stop the action-reaction chain.

Well yeah, unless that is one way the action-reaction sequence balances out. It seems Ra was saying that it does indeed end there, the reaction part being the forgiving itself. I like to believe that is sufficient, but I do not know for sure.

Godspeed!

[Namaste]

Thank you for your replies unity, although they are not quoted and replied, they have been digested :¬)

A lot to catch up with on this thread!

Regarding the Wanderer/karma/violence discussion. A Q'uote...

Q'uo: You are capable of embodying that which you can pull through from above by your desire. If your desires are for lust, then you shall leave your kundalini in red ray.

If your desires focus upon personal relationships, then you shall raise your kundalini to the orange ray.

If your true desire is for marriage and a good work situation, then you shall raise your kundalini to the yellow-ray level.

If your deepest desire is to open your heart, then you shall raise the kundalini to the green-ray level.

If your deepest desire is to learn how to love with wisdom and to know what it is to have compassion while invoking justice, then you move into those energies of acceptance and of justice that are invoked in blue ray.

And when you finally desire above all things to be devoted ultimately and completely to the one infinite Creator and live in the precincts of faith, then by your desire you have pulled up the energy into indigo.

The key here is the definition, and context, of justice. It appears to be fifth density (wisdom) learn/teaching related to...

...balancing the intense compassion we had gained in 4th density

Perhaps the fate of the Wanderer engaging in combat is determined on their 'awakeness'. For example, a Wanderer who is yet to remember himself, may join in combat with the intent to kill. This will incur lots of karmic baggage that will need to be adressed, i.e. further incarnations. This Wanderer is still caught in the 3D cycle, and is yet to awaken, and hence, abides by 3D laws.

On the other hand, a Wanderer who is aware of his nature/purpose may engage in combat with the knowing of karmic resolution, purely because they choose to, and because of free will and the limits of consciousness due to the density, considers it the best option.

We can assume the vast majority of Wanderers are not perfectly balanced beings, and hence are prone to learn many lessons, which can even include 'killing in the name of love'.

I'm not sure that a Wanderer could kill someone and then think 'I forgive myself' very easily. In fact, I think it would incur a considerable amount of emotional drama, and hence karma, because Wanderers, being higher density beings, would never choose to take the life of another.

Whatever spin is put on that, it's an action made out of fear. Actions made from love implicitly trust that whatever happens, happens for a reason, understanding the bigger picture. Hence Jeshua Ben Joseph (I really love that name, so had to drop it in) did not use force against his oppressors, knowing full well what they were doing to the people he walked with, and loved unconditionally. This is also why The Confederation will not suddenly manifest and kill the STS powers that run this world, it's an infringement of free will.

To sum it up, I think that 3D Wanderers - from whatever higher density - are responsible for their actions in 3D, as the higher self (6D) already knows that there is no good or bad, right or wrong, and it's all for experience. If Wanderers did operate from higher densities (while in 3D), they would be immune to karma (since they would have the wisdom and hence instant forgiveness of own actions), and that's clearly not the case.

A thought provoking topic :¬)

[Peregrinus]

As both a wanderer and a soldier that has extinguished life, this question has been asked by both myself and in this forum in another thread, and the answer was found in Q'uotes.

What I learned was that as long as the entity is doing that which is seen to be honourable/noble/good in service to the self (in the case of sts) or in service to other-selves (in the case of sto), then there is no karma associated with it. If one does something which they feel is wrong, that begins the wheel of karma turning.

It all comes down to perception. The wanderer is no more or less responsible for their actions than anyone else on the planet. If they fail to meet the requirements of ascension, the wanderer will repeat the third density cycle the same as any other entity.

Speaking about penetrating the veil as per earlier. When this is done by an sto entity it leads to a more loving 3D existence, plain and simple. I speak from experience.

Unity100 brother, I am happy you stuck around. Although I find your demeanour to be as subtle as chalk on the blackboard, you are interesting

[unity100]

On the other hand, a Wanderer who is aware of his nature/purpose may engage in combat with the knowing of karmic resolution, purely because they choose to, and because of free will and the limits of consciousness due to the density, considers it the best option.

We can assume the vast majority of Wanderers are not perfectly balanced beings, and hence are prone to learn many lessons, which can even include 'killing in the name of love'.

I'm not sure that a Wanderer could kill someone and then think 'I forgive myself' very easily. In fact, I think it would incur a considerable amount of emotional drama, and hence karma, because Wanderers, being higher density beings, would never choose to take the life of another.

actually, from a technical side, i think there is little karma involved in wars, because all parties engaging in a war engage it with the knowledge of the fact that they are going to kill, and get killed. it is kinda a mutual agreement. if both parties believe the righteousness of their cause. but in forced conscription cases that some of the participants dont want to go to war, and find it wrong, i dont know how will it reflect.

i very much think, defending when attacked, will incur little to no karma at all, especially when if you dont defend, innocents are going to be killed, or enslaved, who cant even defend themselves, cant make a choice.

This is also why The Confederation will not suddenly manifest and kill the STS powers that run this world, it's an infringement of free will.

but the confederation has other means at their disposal to affect change. and much of it include spiritual, metaphysical means not available to 3d entities living in 3d, or, wanderers living in a 3d environment. (not current environment, which has 4d vibrations, but a societal system that is still clung in between orange and yellow).

Unity100 brother, I am happy you stuck around. Although I find your demeanour to be as subtle as chalk on the blackboard, you are interesting

pay no attention to me, or my demeanor. im irrelevant. what matters are, the concepts being discussed.

[Namaste]

As both a wanderer and a soldier that has extinguished life, this question has been asked by both myself and in this forum in another thread, and the answer was found in Q'uotes.

What I learned was that as long as the entity is doing that which is seen to be honourable/noble/good in service to the self (in the case of sts) or in service to other-selves (in the case of sto), then there is no karma associated with it. If one does something which they feel is wrong, that begins the wheel of karma turning.

It all comes down to perception. The wanderer is no more or less responsible for their actions than anyone else on the planet. If they fail to meet the requirements of ascension, the wanderer will repeat the third density cycle the same as any other entity.

Speaking about penetrating the veil as per earlier. When this is done by an sto entity it leads to a more loving 3D existence, plain and simple. I speak from experience.

Unity100 brother, I am happy you stuck around. Although I find your demeanour to be as subtle as chalk on the blackboard, you are interesting

Thank you for sharing your wisdom, brother. It is input like this, such from another's experience, that really helps people such as myself understand and come to grips with subjects such as these, in which I have not personally experienced.

An interesting point to note is that the truth is always simple. We all know that forgiveness of self, and others, is how to stop the wheel of karma from turning (I even mentioned it myself). Yet, discussions can easily look for a complicated answer, as we, and I, have done here.

A refresher in the simplicity of truth, thank you :¬)

---

actually, from a technical side, i think there is little karma involved in wars, because all parties engaging in a war engage it with the knowledge of the fact that they are going to kill, and get killed. it is kinda a mutual agreement. if both parties believe the righteousness of their cause. but in forced conscription cases that some of the participants dont want to go to war, and find it wrong, i dont know how will it reflect.

i very much think, defending when attacked, will incur little to no karma at all, especially when if you dont defend, innocents are going to be killed, or enslaved, who cant even defend themselves, cant make a choice.

Yes indeed, one may feel guilt as to not defending innocents, rather than the guilt of taking another's life. Hence a choice is made, and if done so with acceptance of that choice, karma-free.

I consider the teachings of this thread of the upmost importance. This was a grey area for me, one which has now been polarised. Marvellous.

but the confederation has other means at their disposal to affect change. and much of it include spiritual, metaphysical means not available to 3d entities living in 3d, or, wanderers living in a 3d environment. (not current environment, which has 4d vibrations, but a societal system that is still clung in between orange and yellow).

Yes indeed, many of which are carried out telepathically, from both STO and STS groups. The difference being STO groups such as The Confederation, will only do this to people who seek (edit: seeking service to others, not an STO group in particular), whereas STS groups will target those in states of fear (if I recall correctly).

Crop circles are one of these methods in my opinion, employed from higher densities to act as catalysts for people to awaken to their innate divinity and infinite worth, without impacting on the free will of others.

STO UFO sightings can be for a message of the same effect - open your mind.

[Peregrinus]

pay no attention to me, or my demeanor. im irrelevant. what matters are, the concepts being discussed.

I do pay attention to you brother. You are as important to me as any other beautiful being on this planet. Concepts are important to find the direction of the path, but once on the path, concepts become unimportant and love becomes the light which guides.

I was where you are one year ago. You may seek out my thread on "unfeeling" to get a broader perspective of how I was a logic based human, seeking truth. It was through the use of that logic that I came to find my now unshakable faith, for I have travelled the long journey of fourteen inches since then, with gracious thanks to LL, the Father, my guides, and our brothers. Continue your path brother. It leads to a beautiful place

[Namaste]

Concepts are important to find the direction of the path, but once on the path, concepts become unimportant and love becomes the light which guides.

Amen to that brother - a wonderfully spoken message.

[unity100]

was where you are one year ago. You may seek out my thread on "unfeeling" to get a broader perspective of how I was a logic based human, seeking truth. It was through the use of that logic that I came to find my now unshakable faith, for I have travelled the long journey of fourteen inches since then, with gracious thanks to LL, the Father, my guides, and our brothers. Continue your path brother. It leads to a beautiful place

i dont know what to tell you ...

[Turtle]

was where you are one year ago. You may seek out my thread on "unfeeling" to get a broader perspective of how I was a logic based human, seeking truth. It was through the use of that logic that I came to find my now unshakable faith, for I have travelled the long journey of fourteen inches since then, with gracious thanks to LL, the Father, my guides, and our brothers. Continue your path brother. It leads to a beautiful place

i dont know what to tell you ...

If all truly is one throughout infinity, then all aspects are equals. Each chakra is equally important. This would then mean we do not become imbalanced if we prefer to intellectualize concepts instead of communicate emotions, but become imbalanced when we view our intellect as more useful to ourselves than our hearts. It may be more useful in certain ways, but the heart is also more useful in certain ways. All chakras have their usefulness AND uselessness. I do not know, or pretend to know if you value your intellect more than your heart center Unity100, and I have no opinion on that matter.

I am currently finding the most useful concept to focus on in my life is the concept of equality-throughout-infinity. This concept is proving to be the "elixir" of sorts for my mind to use as a backdrop for all my thoughts, and then actions that follow. The "elixir" for my heart is the same concept, but felt rather than known.

Godspeed!

[unity100]

a lot of people are still confusing mind with the scholastic positive science part limited portion of the societal mind of 2010 earth 3d civilization. and its possible that some also confuse it with wisdom properties of blue ray.

moreover, again, again and again, maybe in vain; one should always remember how Ra warned about mistaking 4th chakra, green ray, love vibration as the creator and worshiping it as if it was the creator itself.

mind/body/spirit is mandatory for existing as an entity. this wont change, even until late 7d. even in late 7d, mind/body/spirit will become a totality. even then neither the existence of mind, nor the existence of a kind of body will cease to exist. they will become a totality instead, before going back to infinity altogether.

love, is a vibration that is carried by 4th chakra, green ray. wisdom, is a vibration that is carried by 5th chakra, blue ray. these both are energy centers that exist in a significator, a mind/body/spirit, whether it is a complex, or it is a kind of entity like the ones that existed before declaration of mind/body/spirit being a complex. (this part from Ra).

there will not be neither love, nor light, without mind, or body, or spirit. lack of any of these will cause anything to cease being a separate entity.

[Turtle]

a lot of people are still confusing mind with the scholastic positive science part limited portion of the societal mind of 2010 earth 3d civilization.

I haven't read this whole thread, but as far as my last post goes, I was speaking specifically about our conscious mind. After 3d life, we will still be conscious thinking beings, difference being we will be conscious of our subconscious as well, or rather the 2 minds will merge. The mind changes in functionality, purpose, and awareness depending on whatever part of existence you are in. I do not see the distinction you are talking about, I see the mind simply changing it's form and function.

Godspeed!