A Friendly Conversation: Exploring Omnivorous vs. Vegetarian Diet

[Cyan]

You're welcome.

Stuff like "when you want a salty snack, prefer raw bacon fried in extra virgin olive oil at home from stainless steel pans to industrially fried unsafe meatlike substances or worse, potato chips with bacon flavor"

Works on all levels, from availability of products on industrial scale (what state people should focus on if they read) to individuals (what meat eating consumers who may not enjoy the topic).

Try to when you make your dinner, focus on making each incremental step slightly more healthy as you progress towards ultimate health instead of one giant leap.

That is, if you cant stop eating junk food, then make it yourself, as it makes you more attentive and gives you a larger variety. If you pack it well and assemble it at work it may only take you a minute of your total work time + microwave while you previously may have had to walk to the store to get fast food.

Now, if you want to tell me that you want want to spend your own time doing work to improve your own well being, thats quite alright by me, but dont pretend that its because the choice is hard, the choice is usually the easy part, the complaining that you do once you've made the wrong is what we have these forums for, it takes ages to learn to live with making the least amount of wrong choices. Some of us never get it.

[BrownEye]

My take on this is reduce cost for fruit, veggie / healthy and increase cost for meat / unhealthy and increase availability of stores that sell proper food and decrease fast food and snack availability and go from there.

It would change catalyst.

Sort of like staying out of jail because the bikes are locked up better, rather than stopping the selfish act because there are consequences.

After a thought hit me while driving, I probed around in my body a bit. I have prions in my gut from over ten years ago. This would mean that I still have matter that is not cleaned out since changing my diet. Which may get me to do a full cleanse at some point. But the thought/my findings, got me to asking more about these prions. My wife and children have none in their body. All of my extended family have them. Something seems to activate them. It could just be a prep for exit, but definitely connected to catalyst, whether now or in the future. As all I needed to do to activate mine were to continue my old habits.

[Cyan]

Would change catalyst from painful lesson (prison) to pleasurable lesson (being hired to guard bikes)

[GentleReckoning]

Um, so my higher self has recommended becoming vegetarian to me.

I've been led to believe that it is not only delicious, but good for your soul. Is this true?!

[Cyan]

In 75-90% of cases, yes.

[Marc]

Um, so my higher self has recommended becoming vegetarian to me.

I've been led to believe that it is not only delicious, but good for your soul. Is this true?!

My higher self also recommended it. I did it more for spiritual reasons than physical ones but then benefited physically as well as spiritually greatly over the 2 months. It's like REAL food that I eat and I no longer have a bad conscious with my food.

I imeadiately had spiritual clarity like never before and I feel great physically and spiritually. I lost weight physically and metaphysically. It's delicious.

If you ever want to go all the way vegan, that's also a great thing. (No pressure, go at your own pace)

[Monica]

Um, so my higher self has recommended becoming vegetarian to me.

I've been led to believe that it is not only delicious, but good for your soul. Is this true?!

Yes, yes!

[Monica]

How is this any different from the rationale that humans use?



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[Cyan]

Other than the fact that the Greys have no mouth in this, in no way.

Or are they eating the human with their brain

[Monica]

Other than the fact that the Greys have no mouth in this, in no way.

Or are they eating the human with their brain

Lol! I didn't notice that!

[BrownEye]

They are dissolved with the solvent/slime on their skin, then ingested/absorbed through their pores, in already "digested" form.

[Cyan]

Then why the fork in the left most grays hand

[BrownEye]

To create fear which is part of their control.

LoL

[xise]

I can't say I've even read 10% of these posts about meat eating and plant eating, but I wanted to share my thoughts as a person who has been vegetarian on and off for most of my life (32 years old; raised a meat eater, been vegetarian for a total of eight years, the most recent bout being 14 months, and as a person who loves the taste of meat)

1) It's "easier", in some cases to eat meat than shop around or a vegetarian alternative. It's never impossible to eat vegetarian, but a decade ago when I was struggling graduate in a major I hated, while I dealt with major depression and a gluten allergy, I just did not want to worry about looking or vegetarian food. I'm not saying this was a right or wrong decision, but I have compassion for myself that felt overwhelmed.

2) In most cases, going vegetarian and has a dampening effect on social life because we as a society often connect sharing food, and this is another added difficulty in an already catalytic fielded life.

3) I think you can totally be spiritual and eat meat, but it takes more respect, prayer, and cleansing of yourself and the animal which likely suffered to provide you a meal.

4) My reasons for eating plants is a combination of animal rights, animals feeling of pain, their lifespan, and their relative intelligence. Given these factors, I also would not eat plants that live a long time such as hundred year old trees.

5) We don't need meat to survive in our society. But if I was in wilderness, and needed I hunt to eat, I would have no problem.

All in all, transitioning to eating plants is not easy - it wasn't for me. It's also not required to be spiritual in 3d. Spirituality is a multispoked wheel, and even a two spoked wheel as a opposed to an eight or ten spoked wheel can still get you to where you are trying to go. Now if you still insisted on consuming 2d selves in 5d, that would be a different situation. But there are 5d things that are basically unimaginable in 3d (no wars??), so its just a different world.

I think Ra's comment about Abraham Lincoln's 4d wake in not accumulating karma even though he basically was involed in the extermination if other selves, is right on point: it was less the act and more about the vibration, intent, and the thought involved in the act that defines its overall attribute. That's why I think it's ok to eat meat if you truly venerate the animal like the native Americans do. But eating plants is how I chose to venetrate these adorable 2d other selves. That being said, although I am now repulsed by eggs, my mouth still waters when I see a good steak...but it also waters for a nice slice of cheese pizza .

[Marc]

I went to a vegetarian Resturant and ordered pad Thai with no egg (I'm a vegan) and after I was halfway through I realized they put egg in my meal. I felt terrible and my body absolutely hates eggs. My body freaked out so much from it.

I also have some problems socially when I bring up my veganism. My mother-in-law used to feed my wife and I before we went vegetarian/vegan and when we made the change she kept not checking ingredients that had animal products in them. I felt terrible not eating the food she cooked, but I really had no choice in the issue and had told her my dietary restrictions. I now think I may just eat out only at places I know have great vegan options when eating out with people.

I also work for Starbucks and I feel I am a huge part of helping people eat more animals (which I'm sure they would eat anyways) and I feel like it goes partially against my beliefs to serve something I feel strongly against, because of ethical, health, and environmental objections I hold. Also, baristas waste like 5 gallons a milk a day from lack of attention to how much milk is needed and it really hurts me to see that. I'm a supervisor now so I can coach them to not waste, but that's only a small part I can do. Also, in stores I see much waste and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do about it, cause I only have so much control.

I'm not planning on making a career out of Starbucks but I'm learning a lot in it right now and having great catalysts coming from this job.

Any advice?

[indolering]

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Meat scrap leftovers now being reprocessed into ice cream: The dismal future of food

NaturalNews) There appears to be no limit to how far the processed food industry will go to maximize its profits, even if it means reprocessing animal meat waste and adding it to completely unrelated foods like ice cream. This is the latest endeavor by industrial food researchers in Italy, Belgium, and elsewhere, who are right now developing novel methods to turn meat industry leftovers into protein-rich powders and slurry for the factory food industry.

As disgusting as it sounds, unused muscle tissue, tendons, bones, and other animal byproducts are loaded with proteins and fats that typically end up in landfills. According to FoodProcessing.com, up to 50 percent of the animal weight processed by the meat industry is composted, discarded, or incinerated. But modern science is hoping to basically recycle this waste and turn it back into food.

But this so-called food will not be recognizable as its own entity, at least not in the traditional sense. All those bones, meat trimmings, and poultry leftovers can effectively be converted into what the food industry has dubbed "animal protein hydrolysates." These hydrolysates are basically liquified or powdered protein and fat blends that can be added to all sorts of other processed foods to boost their overall nutritional content.

'Pink slime'-type animal gruel to be added to processed foods

Sure, various types of hydrolysates are already added to some processed foods currently on the market. But these hydrolysates are typically made from plants or milk, while the new animal protein hydrolysates are derived from actual animal flesh and bone, which puts them in a whole different league. Hydrolyzed whey protein, for instance, is merely derived from the whey of animal milk. But animal protein hydrolysates are essentially ground up and enzymatically processed animal flesh - recall an image of the infamous "pink slime" and you will get an accurate idea of what we are talking about here.

"It appears that the lipid-rich bonanza of 'disused' reject animal bits can easily be turned into a nutritious gunge, paste or gel of some type, apparently ideal for pumping by the [hecatombe] into processed foods such as ice cream," writes Lewis Page facetiously for The Register about the concept.

"Despite the heroic efforts of the meat biz, in which every particle of jelly and gristle may be jetwashed out of the spinal column of a dead animal for later consumption - perhaps in sausage, pie or meat-paste format - and (as we have lately learned) the odd shortcut may be taken with respect to any dead horses that might be lying about, nonetheless huge tonnages of less-attractive meaty nourishment such as guts, eyes, tendons, cartilage, other connective tissue of various kinds, brains, hooves, genitals, etc. etc. all tend to go to waste."

Industrial food processors claim reusing animal waste is 'adding value' to food

To the food industry, though, turning animal waste into food will add value to foods that might be lacking in nutrition. Belgium-based Proliver, for example, already manufactures a lined of chicken- and turkey-based "protein powders" that can apparently be injected into other meat products and used to thicken or enrich other foods:
http://www.proliver.be/nl/home-1.htm

A Russian company has openly admitted that it plans to use animal protein hydrolysates to "enrich" ice cream. According to reports, the company, known as Mobitek-M, has already constructed a manufacturing plant in the Belgorod region of Russia that is capable of processing one hundred tons of "functional animal protein" per day.

http://www.naturalnews.com/040742_meat_s...sates.html

[Jade]

Indolering - well isn't that just disgusting. "Food science" today is now learning how to disguise byproducts as filler to put into mass produced food stuff. So sad.

I've been vegan just about a year now and I can't imagine going back. I've "cheated" on occasion, but my tastebuds have totally changed and cravings for any sort of food stuff I used to eat are few and far between. If anyone's considering it, I want to encourage, it DOES just get easier, like anything else!

Many months ago Marc asked for advice, and while I'm sure he's already learned a lot more and presumably found more peace in his job at Starbucks, I will offer this: I've been recently struggling with the need to get a new job, with my previous trade being of waitress. It's hard being vegan and serving steaks, etc. However, I think the fact is, that regardless of whether we as vegans are the ones serving them, it will not change the fact that that person walked through the door to get a cow milk latte. All we can do it smile and share our good vibes and hope that maybe soon that person will be affected by animal injustice, or want to make changes to better their health. At least maybe you'll rub off enough for them to consider a salad for dinner and thereby save a couple chickens for a few ounces of milk.

[Marc]

I made a vegetarian convert at work, so over the course of my being there I helped save animals and have inspired others with my diet!

I just got interviewed for a job at a local Zoo, so hopefully I will get that job and work a job raising environmental awareness and animal compassion.

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Re: animal protein hydrolysates

That is plain gross and hardly 'nutritious.'

[Jade]

Good luck getting in at the zoo! That sounds divine! Color me jealous!

I found old paychecks from the job I'm considering trying to get back this morning, I think this was a sign. It would just be a temporary thing for maybe 6 months tops while my husband finishes the final draft of his novel and finds a publisher. He has an agent so he's halfway there. Slingin' animal parts lol...

[indolering]

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[indolering]

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McDonald’s Cruelty: Creating Mentally Broken & Physically Destroyed Animals

Bruce Friedrich

By Bruce Friedrich
More than 99 percent of eggs used by McDonald’s in the U.S. come from chickens confined in tiny, barren cages, in what is certainly the most abusive factory farming system in existence.
As you can see in this video from a Mercy for Animals investigation into a McDonald’s supplier, the animals’ muscles and bones deteriorate from lack of use, and these inquisitive and doting mothers go insane from having almost every natural desire thwarted.
I remember when I saw my first video from a battery cage; I couldn’t believe the mummified bodies of hens in cages with live hens, the investigators peeling the rotting corpses from the cages. I was sure it was a particularly bad “farm.” But it turned out that all of the many subsequent undercover investigations found this same gruesome reality in battery cage facilities, and it’s common enough that the industry has a name for it — “cage fatigue.” It happens when the animals’ bodies deteriorate so thoroughly that they become paralyzed, causing them to dehydrate to death.

The animals also go insane. It’s worth remembering that chickens do extremely well in tests of cognitive function and behavioral sophistication. Discovery Magazine reported on research from the University of Bristol: “Chickens do not just live in the present but can anticipate the future and demonstrate self-control… something previously attributed only to humans and other primates…” But in battery cages, chickens can barely move; like a dog or cat would in similar conditions, the animals go insane from the lack of mental stimulation.

In Europe, McDonald’s has received awards for getting rid of this same system beginning in 1998. In 2008, I attended a ceremony in the Houses of Parliament in the UK at which a McDonald’s Europe executive said about getting rid of battery cages, “We believe this is the right thing to do. This is the latest step in McDonald’s evolution from being a fast food company to a company that serves good food, fast.”

He was right, and it’s way past time for McDonald’s in the United States to listen. McDonald’s nearly-exclusive use of battery cage eggs in the U.S. is indefensible, grotesquely unethical, and hugely inconsistent with its own policies in other countries. Eating at McDonald’s, of course, directly supports the abuse.
It’s worth noting that Burger King — McDonald’s top competitor – has pledged to do away with its support for the system completely.

http://www.foodrevolution.org/blog/mcdonalds-cruelty/

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3 Sinister Reasons You're Addicted To Junk Food

Everybody wants to eat healthy! Eventually! When we, uh, finally get around to it! Come on, how hard can it really be to give up junk food?
About as easy as kicking heroin, it turns out. The garbage we cram into our bodies is every bit as addictive as any controlled substance, and food companies have been playing us as slobbering addicts for as long as we've been alive.

#3. Companies Already Think of You as a Junkie
While nobody ever binges on boiled carrots and Brussels sprouts, potato chips are described as the perfect addictive food -- essentially the nutritional equivalent of a speedball. Why? Because they were deliberately designed that way.
When you first pop a chip into your mouth, the coating of salt and fat light up the brain's pleasure centers like a Christmas tree. The starch in the potato causes the same glucose spike as sugar, but is absorbed into the bloodstream much more quickly. That spike then immediately dips, making you want another potato chip. You can just keep eating them, and because there's no real substance to them, your stomach never gets full. The reasoning behind the "you can't eat just one" mantra is pretty much the same reason you can't be a casual meth user.

If you stare at these too long, "Born Slippy" starts playing subliminally in your head.
The addictive quality of food isn't something incidental that companies just happen to benefit from -- they're aware of the phenomenon, and they've been playing the market in the exact same way drug pushers do. Within Coca-Cola, the 20 percent of customers who drink 80 percent of their product are actually known as "heavy users," and the company has made it its mission to specifically target them. And the goal has always been to get you more addicted. They're basically drug-dealing supervillains from a Michael Bay movie, only better written.

read more:
http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/3-sin...junk-food/

[Monica]

I'm impressed. This should settle the but you eat plants debate.

http://veganrabbit.com/2013/03/18/plant-...mment-5746

[Diana]

I would like to be honest and open for once regarding the idea of eating animals. In the past I have been tiptoeing around this subject out of compassion for humans and their free will.

I find it extremely challenging and difficult to do this tiptoeing, but I do it out of respect for every person's right to their own journey. I thought on this site there would be a little more openness and willingness to discuss a subject so relevant to the evolutionary and spiritual path (and at times it is). And yet, the original (and infamous) thread discussing this subject turned into a huge conflict (In Regards to Eating Meat) and had to be "shut down."

I cannot understand, nor do I condone, nor do I have compassion for, the ignorance and willful selfishness that the meat industry perpetuates (and as a result of the mentality that condones it, animal testing). I take issue with the way our existence is even set up. That I must be here (I assume by choice and willingness so I must confess that I may have no right to complain), and have to watch so much suffering—most of it caused by humans and humans alone—is sometimes beyond bearing.

I am not evolved like Ra, or those beings who can look upon this planet and be removed enough from all this suffering to see it all as "well." I am torn continually between letting everything "be" and begging people to wake up.

It is mostly the animal kingdom that tears my heart to pieces. Humans as a collective have made their own suffering and so are culpable as a whole. This doesn't diminish human pain, rather, it accounts for it. But animals do not deserve our horribly cruel treatment, all of which is unnecessary.

I also feel compassion for plants and all living and conscious beings including the planet itself, which, like a mother, has supported us always. So this is not meant as a contention that animal life is better or more valued than plant life. I have addressed this exhaustively on that original thread.

But I do so sincerely hope and wish with my entire being that humanity will move beyond this long drawn-out phase of learning compassion, and cease the needless cruelty which fills our world with so much pain.

[Monica]

...But I do so sincerely hope and wish with my entire being that humanity will move beyond this long drawn-out phase of learning compassion, and cease the needless cruelty which fills our world with so much pain.

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[Melissa]

I think you have every right to complain, it's not even complaining, and I also think it isn't necessary to tiptoe around this subject. Though I do feel this should be a more broader topic, about cruelty and brutality in general. And more importantly; how incredibly numb we've become to it, or have to become -in order to engage with the world as it currently is.

[Monica]

I think you have every right to complain, it's not even complaining, and I also think it isn't necessary to tiptoe around this subject. Though I do feel this should be a more broader topic, about cruelty and brutality in general. And more importantly; how incredibly numb we've become to it, or have to become -in order to engage with the world as it currently is.

Being that tiptoeing still resulted in a lot of intense discord, I shudder to think what would have happened if we hadn't tiptoed!

Case in point:


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[Diana]

I think you have every right to complain, it's not even complaining, and I also think it isn't necessary to tiptoe around this subject. Though I do feel this should be a more broader topic, about cruelty and brutality in general. And more importantly; how incredibly numb we've become to it, or have to become -in order to engage with the world as it currently is.

Thank you Melissa.

I do think most people are numb to the cruelty currently rampant on this planet. I wish I could be numb. That's my problem, I'm not. So I remain somewhat reclusive and keep certain things at bay in order not to spiral down into despair. Of course, I am focusing here on this particular aspect of 3D existence. There is also much beauty, love, and kindness here.

As far as "tiptoeing," perhaps that's not the most accurate word. I feel I have had to be very, very careful not to offend anyone (and honor everyone's free will) while engaging in the subject of eating meat. I made enormous efforts to be impartial and allowing of others. I am not sure I was always successful. I actually felt a great deal more than I was saying so my perceptions may have been skewed. The subject of vegetarianism is very volatile. I think it derives from guilt (conscious or unconscious) on one side, and sadness (sometimes anger) on the other.

[BrownEye]

Trees may be considered transitional species, but normally we do not eat trees. Animals are easily seen to be transitional species (2D to 3D) while edible plants are not. Do edible plants actually die when eaten? It would take the "live" out of live foods would it not? It seems to me that we absorb the consciousness of the plant which then piggybacks our own consciousness.

So if an animal which has fight/flight response can transition densities through love, why should we jump through hoops to justify eating them instead?

Oh well, we learn through the karmic function.

[Melissa]

I think you have every right to complain, it's not even complaining, and I also think it isn't necessary to tiptoe around this subject. Though I do feel this should be a more broader topic, about cruelty and brutality in general. And more importantly; how incredibly numb we've become to it, or have to become -in order to engage with the world as it currently is.

Thank you Melissa.

I do think most people are numb to the cruelty currently rampant on this planet. I wish I could be numb. That's my problem, I'm not. So I remain somewhat reclusive and keep certain things at bay in order not to spiral down into despair. Of course, I am focusing here on this particular aspect of 3D existence. There is also much beauty, love, and kindness here.

As far as "tiptoeing," perhaps that's not the most accurate word. I feel I have had to be very, very careful not to offend anyone (and honor everyone's free will) while engaging in the subject of eating meat. I made enormous efforts to be impartial and allowing of others. I am not sure I was always successful. I actually felt a great deal more than I was saying so my perceptions may have been skewed. The subject of vegetarianism is very volatile. I think it derives from guilt (conscious or unconscious) on one side, and sadness (sometimes anger) on the other.

Yes, I can tell there's been a lot of effort and 'carefulness' put into your posts. So much so that, quite frankly, it almost makes me cringe, because it's so obvious that you're passionate about it but I feel your passion, who you are, gets lost in the 'going out of your way' and trying to honor everyone but yourself, your true feelings and perspective. And I think that is what this topic is truly about, besides the obvious difference of opinions or lifestyles, but those aspects only serve as triggers to get you to feel, speak and live your truth. At least, that's how I see it.

Not being numb has caused me a great deal of despair as well, and I still live fairly reclusive though I'm currently shifting to some sort of balanced engagement with people and everything that's going on in the world, because I love it so much. Reclusiveness, for me, goes against my surpringly outgoing nature, but I've only recently (re)discovered that. Yet there is still so much s*** (excuse my french) going on which tends to generate a lot of emotional energy, so for now I try to use that 'energy' for issues that are important to me.

By the way, I try to type as I would normally speak, and I don't talk loud or fast In case this comes across differently.

[Monica]

This nails it:

5 Stages of Grief

We witnessed the first 3 stages here already...