Rejoining the One without "ascending"

[Turtle]

I thought this idea was super odd, so of course I had to share...

Imagine an individual living on this planet at this time dies before their lessons are learned, and has not reached the sufficient vibration to graduate into a realm higher than 3rd density. Imagine this entity decides to stay in the inner realms or spirit realms, whatever term you prefer. After much guidance and self-evaluation, the entity is 100% certain it wishes to stay in 3d time/space enjoying various activities and periods of rest or non-activity or whatever.

Now this thought lead me to a really interesting question. Regardless of whether this entity would have to eventually move to another planetary sphere to inhabit that planet's 3d time/space realms, if it chose to stay in 3d time/space indefinitely, do you think it would experience the great in breathing of this universe's creator aka the physical death of this universe while still conscious in 3d time/space? I do not know if the Q'uo transcripts or TLOO material ever goes into this particular kind of question. Anything you can imagine already exists, so maybe I'm just thinking of those souls who might already be there, who made the choice to experience the rest of their time/space days in the 3d level, while never progressing....all the way until the end of this universe. (maybe it is not possible in this particular universe or maybe it is? I dunno, lol)

Of course I did not forget the fact that in time/space you do not experience time linearly, so I cannot imagine what that experience would actually BE like....I'm just imagining that experience happening to an individual at all, and I thought it was such a weird and cool idea.

I'm more interested in how this idea strikes YOU personally. Of course if anyone knows of a certain passage that can shed more light on this, please share!

Godspeed!

[Cyclops]

They don't quiet get to this kind of a specific question as far as I'm aware but I think there are some concepts that can be connected. Assuming you mean halting evolution somehow, the messengers say it would not be and if it can be said, it not possible that an entity can be utterly content and not move/change forever. Hopefully we can connect and see why this would not be so.

Ra had spoken that the great experimenters which are the Logoi creators shaping and experimenting with free-will have a function which involves constantly providing the creator with more and more experience. They give the examples of the observation of the early third density beings which are utterly content and have no desire to seek.

Ra Session 82 of the Law of One March 27, 1982

82.21 Questioner: Then even though, from our point of view, there was great evolutionary experience it was deemed at some point by the evolving Logos that an experiment to create a greater experience was appropriate. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct and may benefit from comment. The Logos is aware of the nature of the third-density requirement for what you have called graduation. All the previous, if you would use this term, experiments, although resulting in many experiences, lacked what was considered the crucial ingredient; that is, polarization. There was little enough tendency for experience to polarize entities that entities repeated habitually the third-density cycles many times over. It was desired that the potential for polarization be made more available.

82.22 Questioner: Then since the only possibility at this particular time, as I see it, was a polarization for service to others, I must assume from what you said that even though all were aware of this service-to-others necessity they were unable to achieve it. What was the configuration of mind of the mind/body/spirits at that time? Why did they have such a difficult time serving others to the extent necessary for graduation since this was the only polarity possible?

Ra: I am Ra. Consider, if you will, the tendency of those who are divinely happy, as you call this distortion, to have little urge to alter or better their condition. Such is the result of the mind/body/spirit which is not complex. There is the possibility of love of other-selves and service to other-selves, but there is the overwhelming awareness of the Creator in the self. The connection with the Creator is that of the umbilical cord. The security is total. Therefore, no love is terribly important; no pain terribly frightening; no effort, therefore, is made to serve for love or to benefit from fear.

Ra Session 77 of the Law of One February 10, 1982

Ra: I am Ra. Elements of this query illustrate the reason I was unable to answer your previous question without knowledge of the Logos involved. To turn to your question, there were Logoi which chose to set the plan for the activation of mind/body/spirit complexes through each true color body without recourse to the prior application of free will. It is, to our knowledge, only in an absence of free will that the conditions of which you speak obtain. In such a procession of densities you find an extraordinarily long, as you measure time, third-density; likewise, fourth density. Then, as the entities begin to see the Creator, there is a very rapid, as you measure time, procession towards the eighth density. This is due to the fact that one who knows not, cares not.

Let us illustrate by observing the relative harmony and unchanging quality of existence in one of your, as you call it, primitive tribes. The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad. It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment and also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.

Those Logoi whose creations have been set up without free will have not, in the feeling of those Logoi, given the Creator the quality and variety of experience of Itself as have those Logoi which have incorporated free will as paramount. Thusly you find those Logoi moving through the timeless states at what you would see as a later space/time to choose the free will character when elucidating the foundations of each Logos.

Prior to making entities complex with the extension of free-will.
Ra Session 82 of the Law of One March 27, 1982

Prior to the veiling process the measurement would be that of an entity walking up a set of your stairs, each of which was imbued with a certain quality of light. The stair upon which an entity stopped would be either third-density light or fourth-density light. Between the two stairs lies the threshold. To cross that threshold is difficult. There is resistance at the edge, shall we say, of each density. The faculty of faith or will needs to be understood, nourished, and developed in order to have an entity which seeks past the boundary of third density. Those entities which do not do their homework, be they ever so amiable, shall not cross. It was this situation which faced the Logoi prior to the veiling process being introduced into the experiential continuum of third density.

Ra Session 78 of the Law of One February 19, 1982

Questioner: Then our particular Logos, when it created Its own particular creation, was at some point far down the evolutionary spiral of the experiment with the significator becoming what it was not and, therefore, I am assuming, was primarily concerned in designing the archetypes in such a way that they would create the acceleration of this polarization. Is this in any way correct?

Ra: I am Ra. We would only comment briefly. It is generally correct. You may fruitfully view each Logos and its design as the Creator experiencing Itself. The seed concept of the significator being a complex introduces two things: firstly, the Creator against Creator in one sub-Logos in what you may call dynamic tension; secondly, the concept of free will, once having been made fuller by its extension into the sub-Logoi known as mind/body/spirit complexes, creates and re-creates and continues to create as a function of its very nature.

Let us also look at what is said about inner-plane masters as well.

Q'uo Sunday Meditation October 8, 1989

Let us speak about the inner-planes masters, so called. These are entities which have personally evolved to be harvestable to fourth density who have instead chosen to remain discarnate and to turn back and aid those of third density. These entities are creatures of your illusion which have moved to larger life and are able to see, shall we say, the tree of consciousness down to its roots and up to its loftiest branches. They are out of the illusion, but they have not had the experience of the higher densities by working with a social memory complex. It is, shall we say, a choice. There are service-to-others and service-to-self entities within your inner planes. There are very wise ones within your inner planes. They have done very, very difficult work, and they are to be commended. However, they have halted their own learning process, turning back to aid, and knowing only that which has been realized within the incarnation that makes the entity at the time of the physical death able to move into fourth-density light.

We have chosen, shall we say, a path with a broader vision. It may be said, perhaps, that we have chosen to love the Creator more than we love those to whom we speak, whereas the inner-planes masters love their students more than they love themselves, for they are unable to progress while still within the inner planes of third density. They are, however, able to give very, very good advice and to speak to specific matters that on our part would be an infringement of free will.

Each path of seeking among your peoples is acceptable. Those upon the inner planes have done the equivalent of crucifixion. They have not risen; they have not moved on. They have loved their brothers, and have so great a compassion that they stay within discarnate third density, and attempt to be of service to their brothers and sisters. We have chosen to learn to be, knowing that eventually we would be able to be of service by our being, and at this point in our development we have also conceived of the project of speaking with groups such as yours, and this has passed the Council, obviously, or this instrument who challenges so fiercely would not be speaking.

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We have looked up to this point the nature of those entities which are not complex and also which would seem to be content. Now let us look at why evolution is said to be unstoppable and why your question is what would seem to be a paradox.
Q'uo Sunday Meditation April 18, 2004

The Creator does not have to hope that something will occur because the experience of all previous creations has been that evolution is inevitable; change is inevitable. It may be change regressing towards the density left behind, [or] it may be change progressing towards the density ahead; but it is impossible for entities to remain completely stable. They must create novelty, they must move. That is the restless and insatiable nature of consciousness itself. It shall, by the machinations of endless free will, always have that curiosity about what else there may be to learn that pulls the entity onward, whether the entity is considered in terms of the microcosm or macrocosm. So each of you dwells now within a school that is carefully designed to give each entity its hard knocks on a regular basis. Not in order to indicate the cruelty or the judgment of the creative principle, but to create a schooling atmosphere in which entities are self-schooled by their own hand, by their own mind, by their own perceived problems and solutions.

Q'uo Sunday Meditation January 11, 1998

And in the fullness of time the entity most completely immured in the illusion shall one day, without conscious effort achieve realization. Evolution is absolutely inevitable. The rate of evolution is that which is questionable.

Q'uo Sunday Meditation May 7, 2000

There is an irresistible pull to evolution. There is implicit in the structure of each density every potential outworking of every energy within that density. In a universe of builded light the subtleties are endless and, at the same time, progress through the gradually ascending densities is inevitable and irresistible. The only question that each entity faces is, “How quickly do I wish to progress?” There is no question that you will progress. It is as necessary to our nature to progress as it is for the iron to be drawn to the magnet. It is understandable that you might doubt this

Q'uo Saturday Meditation January 10, 2009

Evolution is inevitable. No force can oppose it. No force can keep it from going forward. However, the engine of desire can accelerate the pace of spiritual evolution.

This session is one which offers an immense amount of information on the details of creation and the concept of change and inevitable evolution, I can only suggest that this sessions be read to get much information on free-will and the creator seeking to know itself. It contains the concepts of planning as well involving the higher-self which is constantly planning and aiding the entity on the path of unstoppable evolution.
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._1105.aspx
Q'uo Sunday Meditation November 5, 2000

I am Q’uo, and am aware of your query, my sister. We shall offer a brief response with the invitation to ask further if there is more information desired. In this creation of the one Creator we spoke earlier of the nature of free will which makes change inevitable. For as the Creator has sought to know Itself through the operation of the creation, which each is somewhat aware of, each portion of the creation which is the Creator seeks to become more fully aware of the one Creator as the source of the self. Thus, there is inbuilt in all creation the desire to move, to know, to experience, to live, and to engage in each process of the living of the life, the experience of the world of the creation. So each portion of the one Creator partakes in some of that which is and some of that which is not. That is to say, each is a portion of the Creator, yet each acts as though it was alone in many instances. There is the process of individualization, of the intense focusing of consciousness so that it reflects an individual point of view, offering to the one Creator yet another avenue of knowing Itself.

As each portion of the creation begins to interact with each other portion within its realm of experience there is undertaken the qualities and responsibilities of individualized consciousness, the seeking for the self that guarantees survival, the interaction of the self with other selves that increases complexity and enriches experience, the movement of groups of selves that move as one and interact with other groups and individuals, with the environment, and so forth. As this interaction occurs there is what you may see as the living upon life, the Creator within each moving as an individualized portion or perspective of consciousness. Life lives with itself and upon itself so that in the reflection that is seen as perhaps the ending of an incarnation for one portion of one perspective, another portion of another perspective, which is still the one Creator, is enhanced while, perhaps, yet another is diminished. It is well to know and to remember that all of the creation is not only the one Creator but is an illusion of separateness.

No portion of the creation is lost, no matter what the change in consciousness or level of apprehension of consciousness is achieved. As you move about in your daily round of activities many millions are the miniscule life forms that give themselves and no longer exist in that form as your place your foot upon the ground, as your automobiles move in their realm of influence, as you breath the air and breath in many other minute forms of life that have but a tiny amount of what you call time in which to experience that which is theirs to experience. And yet the galaxies and the suns and the stars move in their realms as well, changing and transforming into that which is greater, that which is lesser, seen from a lesser point of view, and yet all is still the one Creator knowing Itself. For those who have opened their hearts in compassion to that creation which is theirs to experience within this third-density illusion it is difficult to see various forms of suffering and misery within your life experience. For the heart that is open to all feels the pain of privation, of disease, of isolation, of being unable to comprehend, of feeling the end of one experience as yet another begins. This is well, my friends, for it is, of necessity, a portion of the creation’s evolutionary process that this heart opening and the feeling of the agony as well as the ecstasy of the creation about one is such. Yet we assure each that nothing, no portion of the Creator, no form of life or consciousness, is ever lost but is only transformed to yet another avenue or perspective for the Creator to know Itself.

Q'uo Sunday Meditation May 13, 1990

When you drop behind the tattered physical vehicle that has served you so well in this illusion, you will discover that you enter this illusion hoping and praying that you would choose, and choose with the utmost purity of which you are capable, one side or the other, because evolution calls in a way that has been spoken of by your scientists. Evolution [in the physical sense] is not incorrect, but incomplete. Spiritual evolution goes on, and on, and on, and the call to evolve is always there. Consequently, as you experience the many challenges and difficulties at this time, know that you put yourself where you are, that you may more and more passionately and purely choose the way you shall love.

Oxal July 21, 1985

In the inevitable cycle of experience you shall again be broken and the cycle turns again, offering you again and again the opportunity for new knowledge. Or, if you have refrained from learning the lesson given you previously, you may find yourself repeating one lesson again and again. Try as you may, you will not escape this lesson until it is learned.

Here is an example of the infinite call to evolve of the negative sixth density entity. Spiritual entropy constantly balances all that there is and thus always has the pull back to the infinite one through evolution, no one is to be able to stop this, for that which is infinite is infinitely expanding.

Q'uo February 10, 2008

The path of that which is not has its ending, quite naturally, in the density of unity. Entities who have denied that they and their brothers are one are able to work with fourth-density light without releasing this supposition. They are able to work with fifth-density light without releasing this supposition. They are able to continue to grow and to develop throughout the densities of love and wisdom by assuming that love is of themselves and of the Creator, and that wisdom is their wisdom and the Creator’s. They can still maintain their separateness from other entities.

However, sixth density is the density of unity, and it is glaringly obvious to the negative entity as he moves into sixth density that he is approaching a brick wall. He cannot advance any further. It is the nature of energy to change. It is not the nature of energy to stop. Consequently, there is pressure upon the negatively-oriented entity to continue to evolve. And yet, he cannot evolve and still hold onto the belief that he is separate from his brothers.

Consequently, just as a convert to Christianity goes from being a hardened sinner, in the terms that this instrument would use, to being the most fervent convert, so the negatively-oriented entity, at one moment of realization, switches polarity and becomes the most fervent follower of the truth that all is one. It is an inevitable reaction to the impossibility of further advancement without making that tremendous change.

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And thus we see that free-will is paramount as the creator shall know itself. The seventh density being is the mind/body/spirit totality which knows itself, eighth density is what is known as the octave density where all are harvested by the One through the black-hole.

Ra The Law of One, Book II, Session 40 March 18, 1981

Questioner: I thought that I would make a statement and let you correct it. I’m trying to make a simple model of the portion of the universe that we find ourselves in. Starting with the sub-Logos, our sun, we have white light emanating from this which is made up of the frequencies ranging from the red to the violet. I am assuming that this white light then contains the experiences through all of the densities and as we go into the eighth density we go into a black hole which becomes, on the other side, another Logos or sun and starts another octave of experience. Can you comment on this part of my statement?

Ra: I am Ra. We can comment upon this statement to an extent. The concept of the white light of the sub-Logos being prismatically separated and later, at the final chapter, being absorbed again is basically correct. However, there are subtleties involved which are more than semantic.

The white light which emanates and forms the articulated sub-Logos has its beginning in what may be metaphysically seen as darkness. The light comes into that darkness and transfigures it, causing the chaos to organize and become reflective or radiant. Thus the dimensions come into being.

Conversely, the blackness of the black hole, metaphysically speaking, is a concentration of white light being systematically absorbed once again into the one Creator. Finally, this absorption into the one Creator continues until all the infinity of creations have attained sufficient spiritual mass in order that all form once again the great central sun, if you would so imagine it, of the intelligent infinity awaiting potentiation by free will. Thus the transition of the octave is a process which may be seen to enter into timelessness of unimaginable nature. To attempt to measure it by your time measures would be useless.

Therefore, the concept of moving through the black hole of the ultimate spiritual gravity well and coming immediately into the next octave misses the subconcept or corollary of the portion of this process which is timeless.

Q'uo Saturday Meditation May 9, 2009

That Creator exists in a plenum that fills all that there is, yet because it is infinite and because the infinity is intelligent, the nature of the Creation seems to begin from nothing.

Yet it is as if the Creator’s heart beat once and that is the entire Creation, from your Big Bang until the final black hole collects the final experiences and harvests the knowledge of who It is once again. Then the Creator’s heart beats.

It is as if between the beats of the heart within your breast it was posited that there was nothingness, simply because it could not be seen that the heart was beating. There is never a nothingness, there is always a plenum and that plenum is the one infinite Creator: love.

Q'uo Special Meditation October 15, 2005

The seventh density has been called the density of foreverness. In this density the energies of spiritual gravity begin to take hold of you as a spark of the Creator. The Creator shot you forth into first density with the understanding and the knowledge that within an infinite reach of time/space and space/time you would once again be drawn up into the Creator completely. The seventh density is the density where you prepare for and then go through the final stages of return to the one infinite Creator.

At the end of this density, it is as if you have entered a black hole, and, indeed, the physical black holes that your scientists have seen are physical aspects of this metaphysical process of spiritual gravity and the return of all that there is into the heart of the one infinite Creator. The end of this density system has been called by this instrument the “octave” because she is a musician and sees that when the seven tones, or colors, of creation have been completed there is a return to the original creation of the Father, as this instrument would put it. As the Creator’s heart beats, shall we say, the entire process begins again. It is an infinite cycle.

The Creator is endlessly curious.

[Namaste]

Thanks again Cyclops, a great collection of quotes.

Turtle, my personal opinion is that spiritual evolution is part of us, it's built into our existence and is, in fact, the reason for our existence. To experience, discover, learn and eventually return to oneness.

Evolution is spiralling upwards, and each entity chooses at which rate they wish to progress, and which polarity. It can be slowed, but one cannot go backwards to freeze on the spiral. Imagine the infinite range of 'speed' of conscious evolution; there can be an unimaginably - infinitesimally - slow rate, which is still however, progressing (that slow rate could last many lifetimes).

[Ali Quadir]

Why...
Why would we leave unity... If it is only to find our way back to it?

Would it not be faster to just... Not leave unity?? People sometimes say we would not know the lessons then. But if that's the reason... Then why are the lessons designed by a higher power which is also part of the unity. Therefore everything there is to learn is already known inside the unity.

Also... Is there time in unity? I thought not. The division between past and future cannot exist in unity.. Why if there is no time would time and the direction of time be relevant in this learning process?

Some suggest that something went hideously wrong. A kind of fall from grace. Like the Christian origin of sin. But what in unity. Could go wrong? How can perfection be corrupted if there is nothing but perfection existing in the first place?

[Turtle]

Why...
Why would we leave unity... If it is only to find our way back to it?

Would it not be faster to just... Not leave unity?? People sometimes say we would not know the lessons then. But if that's the reason... Then why are the lessons designed by a higher power which is also part of the unity. Therefore everything there is to learn is already known inside the unity.

Also... Is there time in unity? I thought not. The division between past and future cannot exist in unity.. Why if there is no time would time and the direction of time be relevant in this learning process?

Some suggest that something went hideously wrong. A kind of fall from grace. Like the Christian origin of sin. But what in unity. Could go wrong? How can perfection be corrupted if there is nothing but perfection existing in the first place?

These are the kind of questions I asked of myself in past days...indeed I ask myself ALL kinds of questions about everything.

If there are truly infinite universes each with their own rules of physics as well as metaphysics, then I do not believe anything is impossible. Q'uo has said many times over that they do not claim to be an authority on the questions posed to them, because they too know that creation is infinite and all of their knowledge is based on THIS universe.

This is why my original post really stuck out as a cool concept to me, because I am sure there is a universe (if not this one) where individuated entities do not have to "learn" anything to "spiral up"...unless they feel like they want to expand their knowledge/understanding. I don't think it is necessary even in this universe. I understand the concept that the highest infinite mind of all creation across all universes is infinitely curious. I cannot imagine an infinitely curious mind NOT wanting to experience something it can create. If the only absolute truth is that All is One, then anything else goes...there's a universe for this and a universe for that, etc.

Godspeed!

[BlatzAdict]

I was just going to say the same thing... Curiousity
hey look a cat! meeeooww

[peelstreetguy]

I find this thread interesting.

Ali- Why not? If all is one, then what else is there to do?

I think creation is the thoughts of the creator. I once found myself outside my body and totally unaware of ANYTHING exept "I AM". Timeless. It gets very boring...

I think that might be the creators real state of awareness. Then he has a thought of "other". Then thoughts build upon thoughts untill we reach the manyness of creation.

Maybe the creators thoughts building upon thoughts is what creates time. If you make up a story in your head, you can go to any point in the story and rethink or change it, but you can't think about or change a point that you have not made up yet (say the last chapter waiting to be written). At that point in the story, even you don't know what's going to happen because you haven't made it up yet.

So why are you writing a story in your head? Because you are bored and are curious to see where it takes you.

About something going horribly wrong.....Maybe the writer(creator) gets lost in his own story(creation). By that happening, the creator thinks it is all of the characters and the interactions among them. At this point the story litterally comes to life and it builds itself. Free will is born. Eventually the creator remembers its true state of being and the story ends. Another story waiting to be born on the experience of the previous one.

Thank you for reading my humble ramblings about which I know not.

[thefool]

Now this thought lead me to a really interesting question. Regardless of whether this entity would have to eventually move to another planetary sphere to inhabit that planet's 3d time/space realms, if it chose to stay in 3d time/space indefinitely, do you think it would experience the great in breathing of this universe's creator aka the physical death of this universe while still conscious in 3d time/space? I do not know if the Q'uo transcripts or TLOO material ever goes into this particular kind of question. Anything you can imagine already exists, so maybe I'm just thinking of those souls who might already be there, who made the choice to experience the rest of their time/space days in the 3d level, while never progressing....all the way until the end of this universe. (maybe it is not possible in this particular universe or maybe it is? I dunno, lol)

We are all ONE and we are living this illusion. Including the illusion of density. The first distortion of the Law of One is Free Will. Free Will means the choice to do anything including an inherent choice to not grow and stay stuck. Nothing wrong with that.

I think there is no question that ALL would experience the IN and OUT breath of the universe. ALL are part of that ONE which causes this IN and OUT breath.

[Ali Quadir]

Ali- Why not? If all is one, then what else is there to do?

Because we didn't come here because there was nothing better to do. There is a purpose to it, we have an intuitive guidance, therefore we are intuitively guided towards something. Or we are deluding ourselves.

I don't believe the latter.

I think creation is the thoughts of the creator. I once found myself outside my body and totally unaware of ANYTHING exept "I AM". Timeless. It gets very boring...

You were a 3d entity without a body... I assure you that the creator is not bored. And he did not create us for entertainment.

We are here for a reason, that reason must have everything to do with our daily struggles. It must have everything to do with now and here.

[peelstreetguy]

I just re-read my last post. I should not have written it. I was in a rather low mood at the time and my thoughts were somewhat cloudy. :-/

[Aaron]

Don't be so hard on yourself, peel! I think the post you made on 5/14 was very interesting. I didn't detect any tones of negativity in it at all.

[Ali Quadir]

Neither have I. And even if they were there, we're all human. Pretending we don't occasionally get a negative mood would only be self deluding.

[peelstreetguy]

Thanks guys. I've been in a strange mood for the last two weeks. I can't seem to find any joy or happiness in anything.

Anyhow, I'd better stop de-railing this thread.

[Ali Quadir]

If you feel like it it might be worth another thread. I've been having the same feelings and I gather some others feel the same. Maybe something is going on in earths energetic balance. Still, having ups and downs isn't a bad thing. It has it's merits.

[unity100]

can you even stay in a lower density while keeping vibrations of a higher density anyway. there would be numerous frictions.

[Tenet Nosce]

Now this thought lead me to a really interesting question. Regardless of whether this entity would have to eventually move to another planetary sphere to inhabit that planet's 3d time/space realms, if it chose to stay in 3d time/space indefinitely, do you think it would experience the great in breathing of this universe's creator aka the physical death of this universe while still conscious in 3d time/space? I do not know if the Q'uo transcripts or TLOO material ever goes into this particular kind of question. Anything you can imagine already exists, so maybe I'm just thinking of those souls who might already be there, who made the choice to experience the rest of their time/space days in the 3d level, while never progressing....all the way until the end of this universe. (maybe it is not possible in this particular universe or maybe it is? I dunno, lol)

That is a very interesting question! My immediate impression is that the "great in breathing" would simply fail to register the experience of the 3D entity. And so it would just pick up wherever it left off on the next "out breathing" oblivious that anything had occurred in-between. But the idea definitely warrants some more thought, and kind of dovetails into some of the ideas raised here in Post-harvest continuity of consciousness.

---

can you even stay in a lower density while keeping vibrations of a higher density anyway. there would be numerous frictions.

Aren't those frictions referred to as catalyst?

[unity100]

ra had had mentioned that at the start of an octave, not every entity starts from 1d. the consciousness gets spread to different vibrations.

can you even stay in a lower density while keeping vibrations of a higher density anyway. there would be numerous frictions.

Aren't those frictions referred to as catalyst?

dont think so. unless you count learning not to remain in lower densities with higher vibrations as a lesson.

[Tenet Nosce]

dont think so. unless you count learning not to remain in lower densities with higher vibrations as a lesson.

I think that could be counted, no?

How about these quotes, do you think this bears any relevance?

Questioner: Is it possible by the use of some technique or other to help an entity to reach fourth-density level in these last days?

Ra: I am Ra. It is impossible to help another being directly. It is only possible to make catalyst available in whatever form, the most important being the radiation of realization of oneness with the Creator from the self, less important being information such as we share with you.

We, ourselves, do not feel an urgency for this information to be widely disseminated. It is enough that we have made it available to three, four, or five. This is extremely ample reward, for if one of these obtains fourth-density understanding due to this catalyst then we shall have fulfilled the Law of One in the distortion of service.

We encourage a dispassionate attempt to share information without concern for numbers or quick growth among others. That you attempt to make this information available is, in your terms, your service. The attempt, if it reaches one, reaches all.

We cannot offer shortcuts to enlightenment. Enlightenment is, of the moment, an opening to intelligent infinity. It can only be accomplished by the self, for the self. Another self cannot teach/learn enlightenment, but only teach/learn information, inspiration, or a sharing of love, of mystery, of the unknown that makes the other-self reach out and begin the seeking process that ends in a moment, but who can know when an entity will open the gate to the present?

or this? Free will, perhaps, is a catalyst available in all densities.

Questioner: Thank you. I’ll call the lenticular galaxy that we are in the major galaxy just so we will not get mixed up in our terms. Does all the consciousness in individualized form that goes into what we are calling the major galaxy start out and go through all of the densities in order, one-two-three-four-five-six-seven and into the eighth, or are there some who start up higher in the rank so that there is always a mixture of intelligent consciousness in the galaxy?

Ra: I am Ra. The latter is more nearly correct. In each beginning there is the beginning from infinite strength. Free will acts as a catalyst. Beings begin to form the universes. Consciousness then begins to have the potential to experience. The potentials of experience are created as a part of intelligent energy and are fixed before experience begins.

However, there is always, due to free will acting infinitely upon the creation, a great variation in initial responses to intelligent energy’s potential. Thus almost immediately the foundations of the, shall we call it, hierarchical nature of beings begins to manifest as some portions of consciousness or awareness learn through experience in a much more efficient manner.

Cancer as a fourth-density catalyst??

Questioner: You mentioned that the thoughts of anger now are causing cancer. Can you expand on this mechanism as it acts as a catalyst or its complete purpose?

Ra: I am Ra. The fourth-density is one of revealed information. Selves are not hidden to self or other-selves. The imbalances or distortions which are of a destructive nature show, therefore, in more obvious ways, the vehicle of the mind/body/spirit complex thus acting as a teaching resource for self revelation. These illnesses such as cancer are correspondingly very amenable to self-healing once the mechanism of the destructive influence has been grasped by the individual.

Here is higher density catalyst:

Questioner: I would just include the question as to why the time of harvest is selected by so many Wanderers as time for incarnation?

Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.

The overriding reason for the offering of these Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow in incarnative states is the possibility of aiding other-selves by the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions and the probability of offering catalyst to other-selves which will increase the harvest.

There are two other reasons for choosing this service which have to do with the self.

The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher density catalyst.

The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth-density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.

Finally, isn't the Orion contact itself an example of 5D catalyst?

[unity100]

dont think so. unless you count learning not to remain in lower densities with higher vibrations as a lesson.

I think that could be counted, no?

it could be counted. however it is lesson-specific catalyst. a single lesson, any catalyst to teach it.

or this? Free will, perhaps, is a catalyst available in all densities.

free will is in itself a rarely understood, broadly and liberally applied word, catalyst is also in the same lines. if you bring them together, it becomes way too broad.

These illnesses such as cancer are correspondingly very amenable to self-healing once the mechanism of the destructive influence has been grasped by the individual.

that is a catalyst specific to 4th density, uses 4th density mechanics, and is currently here because this planet is in 4d vibrations since 1937.

Here is higher density catalyst:

Questioner: I would just include the question as to why the time of harvest is selected by so many Wanderers as time for incarnation?

Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.

The overriding reason for the offering of these Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow in incarnative states is the possibility of aiding other-selves by the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions and the probability of offering catalyst to other-selves which will increase the harvest.

There are two other reasons for choosing this service which have to do with the self.

The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher density catalyst.

The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth-density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.

there is no higher density catalyst here. the 6d entity chooses to incarnate in a 3d planet in order to be both of service and to amend some infirm lessons. notice how it says an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third density catalyst. the catalyst that acts in this case, will be 3rd density.

Finally, isn't the Orion contact itself an example of 5D catalyst?

that wouldnt be correct.

that kind of thing wouldnt take place if the entities were not incarnated in 3d bodies and in a (rather negative) 3d society. if you look into it in detail, it can be named as a catalyst that comes into being because the entities are not in their native environment - so, its a catalyst to teach that everything should be in their appropriate environment - including wanderers. it is possible that the entities participating may learn some things pertaining to their density throughout the hardship, but, the things they will be doing to learn these things wont be pertaining to 3d mechanics or catalyst - they will be out of place interactions that are happening in a density that shouldnt have them.

in short, both wanderers, and the negative attacker have no business in a 3d experience. all they need to learn and all the amenities they need are present in their own density and space/time continuum.

[Oceania]

wtf are we doing here then?

[Tenet Nosce]

ra had had mentioned that at the start of an octave, not every entity starts from 1d. the consciousness gets spread to different vibrations.

I don't think I recall that one. Do you know where it is in the material? So are you saying a new octave is fully populated throughout the entire spectrum upon creation?

can you even stay in a lower density while keeping vibrations of a higher density anyway. there would be numerous frictions.

Aren't those frictions referred to as catalyst?

dont think so. unless you count learning not to remain in lower densities with higher vibrations as a lesson.

What is the outcome of the frictions? How does the Law of Responsibility come into play? What is the potential lesson offered? Ideas?

---

that kind of thing wouldnt take place if the entities were not incarnated in 3d bodies and in a (rather negative) 3d society. if you look into it in detail, it can be named as a catalyst that comes into being because the entities are not in their native environment - so, its a catalyst to teach that everything should be in their appropriate environment - including wanderers. it is possible that the entities participating may learn some things pertaining to their density throughout the hardship, but, the things they will be doing to learn these things wont be pertaining to 3d mechanics or catalyst - they will be out of place interactions that are happening in a density that shouldnt have them.

in short, both wanderers, and the negative attacker have no business in a 3d experience. all they need to learn and all the amenities they need are present in their own density and space/time continuum.

So, in other words, if the wanderers weren't here, the negative attackers wouldn't be able to get in? As I am describing here in 2006.03.28 - Q'uo on Online Gaming?