Survival vs Acceptance

[Veo]

Im starting this with the hope that we all may have some imput on this topic..

I believe an have always felt that my life/existance is a gift from God. I still believe this, but with more of an understanding of the "bigger picture". That being said, can any 1 tell me how they feel on there need to survive. I have an instinct that tells me to survive an I feel i have the knowledge, will, an spiritual guidence to do so. Should i just sit back an accept what I feel an know to b true, w/ in death the 4th density is reached.. or should I instead do what i can to maintain the gift I have been given by the Creator.

An I may not have put this out there an well as I would have wanted but thats the gist of it....Love & Light

[zenmaster]

There is always a bigger picture than the bigger picture, and more fundamental principles at work than gifts and survival concerns. If something is still compelling than I'd explore it as the catalyst that is offered, regardless of an 'idea of what should be done'. All the info you need to evolve is constantly begging for attention, and also coming from a design that had your best interest in mind from the start.

[hogey11]

I have found you have to be careful with Ra and their use of the word 'death'. At one point, I believe Ra likens our astral travels while we dream each night as a sort of 'death', and I believe the intent in doing so was to try to knock us off this 'death is forever' idea that we have built up in our cultures.

In response to your topic, I think you do both yourself and the universe a disservice by not achieving both of those things. Life requires acceptance of the catalyst that will undoubtedly challenge you in your life, but it also requires that you do what you can to learn on behalf of the One Infinite Creator. You cannot do this whilst between incarnations, pure and simple; you must be working to serve others. So, accept the things that come AND maintain the gift you've been given; all can be taken and used

[Crown]

I had the same thought a while back. I think that the conclusion that i came to was that thinking about the transition to any sort of other existance by death or whatnot, is just wishful thinking. We have our lives right now for a reason. Clearly, if you haven't made the transition yet, you have much left to do on this planet. Your survival here is a blessing and not an alternative. Your survival here is the essence that defines the way and the methods that you will leave this physical body and reach the point that you want to reach.

Acceptance of what? A theory? A supposed "truth" that we might not know nothing about? I think that acceptance is something that you can grasp. I can understand the acceptance of the idea or the possibility of this particular event to happen. But accepting something that we are not sure about could be called being dellusional in my opinion.

So i would say again, that your survival IS god. This is what you are supposed to do right now. RIGHT NOW. You are here, and here you are.

[Oceania]

i think saying things are a disservice, when even the most vile creatures are serving The All according to LOO, is silly because we are all on our own paths and it is not a disservice to experience a path that is different, because that difference enrichens god. isn't that what LOO is about?

[hogey11]

i think saying things are a disservice, when even the most vile creatures are serving The All according to LOO, is silly because we are all on our own paths and it is not a disservice to experience a path that is different, because that difference enrichens god. isn't that what LOO is about?

I was being slightly hyperbolic i think... like you say, there is no 'wrong' to be had

[βαθμιαίος]

Should i just sit back an accept what I feel an know to b true, w/ in death the 4th density is reached.. or should I instead do what i can to maintain the gift I have been given my the Creator.

I wonder if Ra's comments on martyrdom would be helpful?

75.15 ...We do not imply that this course of unbridled compassion has any fault but affirm its perfection. It is an example of love which has served as beacon to many.

For those who seek further, the consequences of martyrdom must be considered, for in martyrdom lies the end of the opportunity, in the density of the martyr, to offer love and light. Each entity must seek its deepest path.

[kycahi]

We 3Ders are "blessed" with a fear of death because otherwise we would quit too soon. Please never quit too soon!

An incarnation at this time is an enormous opportunity for service not to be wasted. If anyone here can't feel that for three days straight, it's time to see a practitioner to make the repair.

We have challenges galore, but still we're very very lucky to be here and now. Believe it!

[BrownEye]

We 3Ders are "blessed" with a fear of death because otherwise we would quit too soon. Please never quit too soon!

I have no fear of death, but man, I sure do love life! And the planet! Nature rules!

[3DMonkey]

We 3Ders are "blessed" with a fear of death because otherwise we would quit too soon. Please never quit too soon!

An incarnation at this time is an enormous opportunity for service not to be wasted. If anyone here can't feel that for three days straight, it's time to see a practitioner to make the repair.

We have challenges galore, but still we're very very lucky to be here and now. Believe it!

I can't believe it. My heart has no idea that it pumps day in and day out to support the thoughts I have. Likewise, I am oblivious to what my actions, day in and day out, support of my 7th Density Totality. Lucky? Opportunity? Without knowing what we are doing, we could be nothing more than bacteria in the bowels of the Logos. We have convinced ourselves that our individual progress is of utmost importance, yet we have no clue what are actions result in and therefore doing nothing could be exactly what we should do. It is all an illusion, right? I don't like this illusion, period.

[kycahi]

I remember what Ra said about the illusion or veil: Not only is understanding not required for this 3D existence, not understanding is. I accept that, but also agree that this is a little like Christians thumping the Bible. I don't point to the LOO and say, "Believe!" I just happen to like the Ra material enough to accept it as useful, and visit these forums to share my take on the material and learn from others. I am at peace with the illusion and accept it, even as I enjoy our discussions about it here.

Monkey Boy, I hear you not liking the illusion and feel for you. I also suggest that if it continues to frustrate you, at some point surrender to it just to leave the frustration behind. Acceptance is more comfortable than beating head against wall.

[Richard]

I don't think it has to be one vs. the other. I accept the responsibility of survival in order respond to the catalyst of this lifetime. I may not like it at times, but thats life. Its my job to find the gems in the pile of rubble.

But we have the choice to respond positively or negatively to both gems and rubble.

Richard

[Veo]

I am thrilled at all the responses. I will try to narrow my ? down a bit more. If in believing that the moving of the planet from 3rd to 4th density will not come without some "inconvenience". If this "inconvenience" is something that I can prepare for an survive, should I not try. Or should I have acceptance in my belief an what happens has its reason. An just so every 1 is clear ...im not talking suicide or myrtardom....more of choice of freewill to A survive or B accept. Or mayb another way to put it is the choice of preperation. Or as a simple example ... should I shoot or get shot? My thoughts go to an scene like a monastery being over run by invaders, an the monks just stand there with there belief an die or in the same thought lets say they will not just let there gift go willingly an they fight.
I hope that this along with my inital post bring my thoughts to the surface more.

Light & Love

[βαθμιαίος]

Maybe it's not only shoot or be shot, maybe it's shoot, be shot, or take evasive action.

[3DMonkey]

Maybe it's not only shoot or be shot, maybe it's shoot, be shot, or take evasive action.

I like to lay my gun down and look the shooter in the eye; see if he has it in him; challenge him a bit. Then, I might take evasive action if necessary. First, lets see what the codger has up his sleeve if in fact anything at all. Remember Gran Torino?

[Veo]

I should have never used shoot or b shot as an example i guess..my fault.

[kycahi]

By the way, welcome to your new bunch of friends, Veo, I'm glad you are here!

I have no certainty with what the future holds, and won't preach official LOO doctrine (as if ). I just will stick around as long as I can to see what unfolds. I go on the assumption that 3D space/time is valuable time not to be dismissed but, seriously, that's just me.

If I Wandered here then I want to be of service all I can ; if I was just ordinarily (re-)borned here, I still chose STO and so might as well milk it for all I can so that my next life in 4D maybe I'll get to wear a stripe on my sleeve and marry the hottest chick (or dude) in my pod.

[hogey11]

I am thrilled at all the responses. I will try to narrow my ? down a bit more. If in believing that the moving of the planet from 3rd to 4th density will not come without some "inconvenience". If this "inconvenience" is something that I can prepare for an survive, should I not try. Or should I have acceptance in my belief an what happens has its reason. An just so every 1 is clear ...im not talking suicide or myrtardom....more of choice of freewill to A survive or B accept. Or mayb another way to put it is the choice of preperation. Or as a simple example ... should I shoot or get shot? My thoughts go to an scene like a monastery being over run by invaders, an the monks just stand there with there belief an die or in the same thought lets say they will not just let there gift go willingly an they fight.
I hope that this along with my inital post bring my thoughts to the surface more.

Light & Love

I think I can understand what you're driving at...

Recently, I have been thinking of throwing together an earthquake kit as I have a child now and it seems like a better idea than ever. However, preparing for a disaster with the LOO as a framework has a few repercussions.... First, how much is enough? I initially planned out enough for my wife, daughter, and myself. Done!..... errr.... well, my brother lives 10 blocks away and he's about as asleep as they come. I could never deny my brother supplies if he needed them. Make it 4 now!..... errrr..... what about my parents and other brother? Wife's parents? Before long, I was planning an earthquake kit for my entire community - friends, family, and coworkers.

If you are the type of person who prepares in this way, do so. If you are not someone who prepares in this way, that is okay too. I think no matter what happens, we will be forced to work these "inconveniences" out naturally. If any of us are truly STO-leaning individuals, could you refuse someone supplies that they needed to live?

I still need to buy my earthquake kit. I couldn't quite decide on a number/budget; trying to decide who to plan for and who not to took too much out of me. Instead, I will rest easy knowing that when it is time for all of us to come together, we will do so.

Also, as an aside, Q'uo has told us that the major "complications" involved with harvest are no longer planned due to the vast rise in planetary consciousness since Ra's message. You may not need to worry so much after all

[AnthroHeart]

I just want to stay through 2012 to see what it's all about, and then depart if possible.

Of course unless something changes my mind at that time.

[zenmaster]

Anything one perceives as numinal or any ontologically distinct condition can and will be promoted as incipient indefinitely. And so we look to others (e.g. Q'uo, DW, Calleman) to re-contextualize and craft elaborate extenuations. Indeed, to make our reinterpretations of prognosticated events more any more acceptable, we must have a more and more ephemeral concept du jour on which to rely.

[hogey11]

Anything one perceives as numinal or any ontologically distinct condition can and will be promoted as incipient indefinitely. And so we look to others (e.g. Q'uo, DW, Calleman) to re-contextualize and craft elaborate extenuations. Indeed, to make our reinterpretations of prognosticated events more any more acceptable, we must have a more and more ephemeral concept du jour on which to rely.

Why did you try to make that as hard to read and understand as possible?!? my head hurts!

[Oceania]

cuz it's zenmaster.

[3DMonkey]

I am thrilled at all the responses. I will try to narrow my ? down a bit more. If in believing that the moving of the planet from 3rd to 4th density will not come without some "inconvenience". If this "inconvenience" is something that I can prepare for an survive, should I not try. Or should I have acceptance in my belief an what happens has its reason. An just so every 1 is clear ...im not talking suicide or myrtardom....more of choice of freewill to A survive or B accept. Or mayb another way to put it is the choice of preperation. Or as a simple example ... should I shoot or get shot? My thoughts go to an scene like a monastery being over run by invaders, an the monks just stand there with there belief an die or in the same thought lets say they will not just let there gift go willingly an they fight.
I hope that this along with my inital post bring my thoughts to the surface more.

Light & Love

I think I can understand what you're driving at...

Recently, I have been thinking of throwing together an earthquake kit as I have a child now and it seems like a better idea than ever. However, preparing for a disaster with the LOO as a framework has a few repercussions.... First, how much is enough? I initially planned out enough for my wife, daughter, and myself. Done!..... errr.... well, my brother lives 10 blocks away and he's about as asleep as they come. I could never deny my brother supplies if he needed them. Make it 4 now!..... errrr..... what about my parents and other brother? Wife's parents? Before long, I was planning an earthquake kit for my entire community - friends, family, and coworkers.

If you are the type of person who prepares in this way, do so. If you are not someone who prepares in this way, that is okay too. I think no matter what happens, we will be forced to work these "inconveniences" out naturally. If any of us are truly STO-leaning individuals, could you refuse someone supplies that they needed to live?

I still need to buy my earthquake kit. I couldn't quite decide on a number/budget; trying to decide who to plan for and who not to took too much out of me. Instead, I will rest easy knowing that when it is time for all of us to come together, we will do so.

Also, as an aside, Q'uo has told us that the major "complications" involved with harvest are no longer planned due to the vast rise in planetary consciousness since Ra's message. You may not need to worry so much after all

LOL. I've thought about all that... then, I think, ' what if I'm away from home and can't get back to my stuff?'. Hahahaha. I'd be so frustrated it isn't worth it. I'll just rely on instinct and intuition. I'm sure I'll find someone else's stock pile who got trapped at work

---

Anything one perceives as numinal or any ontologically distinct condition can and will be promoted as incipient indefinitely. And so we look to others (e.g. Q'uo, DW, Calleman) to re-contextualize and craft elaborate extenuations. Indeed, to make our reinterpretations of prognosticated events more any more acceptable, we must have a more and more ephemeral concept du jour on which to rely.

Why did you try to make that as hard to read and understand as possible?!? my head hurts!

Yeah, I would just say something like 'we do enjoy entertaining ourselves'. Zenmaster has much more patience than me and understands how my words are perceived differently. I would've meant everything that zenmaster said, but never been recognized for it. ....

[hogey11]

I used to do that back in university days. I figured the more convoluted I made it the less others would challenge me. I was right, but only because it sent a clear message that I wasn't worth the time or effort if I was going to try to pull that stuff... Just my opinion. I've come to appreciate lucidity far more than convoluted intellectualism.

And I'm with ya, monkey... Intuition and instinct should be enough. But then again, you know I'm not on board with any sort of massive catastrophe or cleansing scenario... I feel the only thing that will be so jarring will be watching all the things that we've trusted in for so long come crashing to the ground. The doomsday scenario is purely if we choose not to rebuild it.

[zenmaster]

Anything one perceives as numinal or any ontologically distinct condition can and will be promoted as incipient indefinitely. And so we look to others (e.g. Q'uo, DW, Calleman) to re-contextualize and craft elaborate extenuations. Indeed, to make our reinterpretations of prognosticated events more any more acceptable, we must have a more and more ephemeral concept du jour on which to rely.

The idea with the convoluted statement was that people will continue to reach outside of themselves for that which can only be found in themselves. One way this is done is to project an allegorical idea into the future as something that is just on the horizon or just beginning to happen (indefinitely out of reach). Sure they will pick a date occasionally, but that date will be yet another beginning-to-happen date.

Times change, and the form of the questions change due to particular circumstances. But the need is the same. So the authorities that we tend to pick to 'provide answers' are those that can create a resonation with perceived circumstances (current events) and one's personal intuition. They seem to be able to bridge what should occur (playing off of hope or fear) with what is 'going on now'. But as circumstances change more rapidly, the demands placed on the authorities cause them to constantly re-interpret the prior bridges to satisfy the need to know. The 'extenuations' are an aspect of the re-interpretations of circumstances. The authorities go so far as to make their prior claims of what the near future holds embarrassingly inappropriate in retrospect (often matching popular sci-fi show, some natural disaster, or some govt statement), but people have short memories and as 3DM says want to be entertained or have escapism refueled.

[ConsciousnessWarrior]

You can't fear death. If you fear it, you'll start to behave in irrational ways that will most definitely inhibit your growth in the spiritual sense. But, I'm of the opinion that you should respect this life you've been given and the potential you have to change things in a positive way. So, by any means necessary, I WILL SURVIVE.
You know, God might be on his own ever-evolving spiritual quest to truly understand everything that comes forth. God might not be completely omniscient. In fact, I know God is not completely omniscient. There are humans with their own undetermined consciousness. We create our reality here on earth and God has no say in where we take this place. That is the gift he gave us and himself. But, powerful people who choose to manipulate to such an extent that it's literally destroying the earth and all of us. My hope is that 2012 will be the great purifier it's cracked up to be. Remove the power from the men behind the curtain and return it to those who are truly deserving of it. Give it to those who will truly be the caretakers of this amazing planet.
Until then, survive. AT ALL COSTS. Those of us who are awakened and with total awareness MUST survive. The foundation will need to be built, again. This time, we'll hopefully get it right.