Confederation and meat consumption

[Jade]

Thanks for expanding on your thinking, Jade. I agree that this is about integrating male and female energies, and I also think you are a good advocate for those female energies (my recommendation wasn't intended to imply you didn't have sympathy for carnivores; only that sympathy is generally helpful to communication). I was not trying to argue that folks fighting for justice should not be strident, only that Q'uo's position seemed to be more "yeah, this is going to happen" and less "you must be strident in your advocacy". It seemed more recognition than approval, in other words.

Well, I do suppose we read the Q'uo quote a bit differently then - not that Q'uo is necessarily encouraging stridency, but saying that sometimes it is necessary, which is a part of the "remedial work of a fairly significant nature" that Q'uo is talking about. I believe, specifically, they are talking about orange ray issues (remedial), and of course yellow ray. But so much of this discussion has to do with power over others and our relationship to second density/the orange ray sphere, which is very distorted.

I think my initial bristling and perception of your criticism came from using the word "militant" to describe people advocating for animals - this is such a strange misnomer that I have never understood. The whole idea behind speaking out against animal agriculture is because vegans want to stop systemic violence. Sure, I have seen plenty of vegans who are beyond angry, and definitely want some sort of "retaliation" - but I honestly see many more people who are angry about trophy hunting or eating dogs who insist upon violent retribution - vegans do not get as angry about these things as omnivores! I also see way more people who make comments like "That pig is for eatin'" on pictures of animals at sanctuaries. I've also personally had multiple truck drivers threaten to run me over with their truck since I protest outside of a slaughterhouse. Anyway, I appreciate you allowing me to articulate my thoughts more, and elevating the conversation a bit. I know you were referring to people on both sides as being "militant", but the cliche of "militant vegan" is so prominent, and you were speaking directly to Diana, so I took it personally. I haven't perceived militancy in this thread by anyone, really, but know I have (often!) been perceived that way.

I've had a lot of catalyst here, but one of the most interesting things I am learning is about emotions, which are also a part of the second density body, and how little they themselves are understood, by all of us. I've misunderstood why I've been told that posting pictures is emotional, because to me, I am just posting something factual and true. But then upon further contemplation, I realize that these two things are not so separate: A picture of a pig hanging from its ankle is a fact, and an image, and it is directly tied to an emotion. This is something that I have tried to explore in this conversation but haven't articulated well. A picture of someone cutting up a tomato doesn't elicit such emotions - except maybe hunger. Seeing a pig hung up by its ankle does not elicit hunger (in most people), and instead elicits a much more complicated series of emotions. I'm not posting these pictures to manipulate people's emotions, because honestly, anyone could have any series of emotions based upon an image experienced. It makes me think of this Ra quote:

[33.8]It is completely true to the best of our knowledge that the orientation or polarization of the mind/body/spirit complex is cause of the perceptions generated by each entity. Thus a scene may be observed in your grocery store. The entity ahead of self may be without sufficient funds. One entity may then take this opportunity to steal. Another may take this opportunity to feel itself a failure. Another may unconcernedly remove the least necessary items, pay for what it can, and go about its business. The one behind the self, observing, may feel compassion, may feel an insult because of standing next to a poverty-stricken person, may feel generosity, may feel indifference.

So I just extrapolate based upon this. "Thus a scene may be observed in your slaughterhouse..." Everyone will have a wide range of reactions. Currently, personally, when I see images of an animal shackled as such, or crammed into a slaughter truck, what I perceive as my overwhelming compassion for their situation makes me feel much more motivated to speak on their behalf, because they are so obviously objectified and subjected to extreme circumstances that would not be allowed to happen to 99% of the species of second density animal population without a huge uproar. We do this to chickens, but not cardinals. We do this to cows, but not horses. We do this to pigs, but not dogs. We do this to goats, but not giraffes. Why? I just want people to think about these things. If people don't want to think about these things, they could try to avoid threads with "meat consumption" in the title.

[rva_jeremy]

xise, I think you and I have similar approaches--we can recognize a valid moral argument without perceiving it as a personal attack.  I was basically vegan growing up, so I don't feel that vegetarianism is alien or threatening me.  

Now on other issues I feel I have a harder time maintaining that attitude, and it usually is because I feel particularly vulnerable. Discussions of sexism come to mind, because the position I take has a direct impact on the dignity of the other party. It feels like you can't experiment with ideas as easily because there is so much judgment going on. I mean I think I do it better than many and I still get denounced regularly, even though we actually agree on substantive policy or philosophy matters.

This may sound insulting to some, but I don't think people examine the grounds for their beliefs very often. So when somebody is curious about those grounds, it's taken as skepticism of the entire position rather than curiosity of how a person constructed that belief. In many cases I think a lot of people come to their beliefs in a non-intellectual manner, so this is understandable, but you'd think they'd welcome the opportunity to understand their own position better!

So yeah, still working on those yellow and orange issues over here.

[rva_jeremy]

Well, I do suppose we read the Q'uo quote a bit differently then - not that Q'uo is necessarily encouraging stridency, but saying that sometimes it is necessary, which is a part of the "remedial work of a fairly significant nature" that Q'uo is talking about.

Thank you, I think I needed you to call this out for me. I have a different concept of Q'uo's message now.

With respect to the issue of militancy I brought up earlier, I am referencing Eisenstein's "The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible", specifically this passage from this chapter which had a very significant impact on my activist thinking. And keep in mind--this is something I'm working with myself on, not necessarily something you were evincing as much as reflecting to me based on my own issues:

The activist Susan Livingston wrote me about a proposal she had written for an Occupy group at Caltech opposing its biofuels contract with BP. She said, “It came because I was troubled by the militant attitude of some of the folks at the teach-in. I didn’t see the care I’d like for the community of the conflict—the multitude of low-level bureaucrats, small stockholders, and franchise owners whose livelihoods depend on BP. What are they—collateral damage? And especially after seeing The Drilling Fields about the human and environmental devastation in Nigeria at the hands of Shell, I’m not real fond of singling out BP in response to the resentments of some privileged students who want to have their cake and eat it, too. But we’ve got to start somewhere, and with privilege comes the capacity to mount an effective campaign of resistance.”

In this comment, Susan is drawing a key connection between privilege and militancy. Militancy, the mentality of war, always involves collateral damage. Something must always be sacrificed for the Cause. The sacrifice of others (the “community of the conflict”) is also the defining mentality of elitism: for whatever reason, those others are less important than me, my class, my cause. The privileged are always sacrificing others for their (the others’) own good. If they sometimes sacrifice themselves too, that doesn’t mitigate their elitism.

This is not to say that the oil companies should be allowed to continue what they are doing in order to preserve the livelihoods of filling-station owners. It is just that everyone needs to be seen and considered, not written off. Militants think that giving up the fight means letting the bad guys have their way. If the world were indeed divided into good guys and bad guys, that might be true, but despite what the movies tell us, the world is not thus divided. Alternatives to fighting, then, can be more powerful and not less in creating change.

This undermines not one ounce of the point you and Q'uo are making, Jade. It simply looks at the issue from another angle. We are sophisticated beings, and we can hold to seemingly contradictory ideas in our head without melting down, can't we? It can at once be true that stridency/militancy is necessary, and at the same time, just because it is necessary doesn't mean that it's always appropriate, that it's the single solution to the problem.

Furthermore, and this is the point I was really trying to make, the stridency and militancy is going to happen and is happening. Just because it is necessary doesn't mean it's what we are required to contribute in any given setting (and that is not a reflection on you or anybody on this thread; please understand I'm trying to think expansively on this topic). Personally I don't see any need to create more conflict, and when I do I frequently find my own flaws at work.

However, I do see a need to provide the other elements that forceful advocacy does not bring to bear. This is because militancy incurs collateral damage, as the quote says, the same way that an antibiotic may be necessary to repair one's health but it doesn't work without killing a lot of good bacteria, too. And what we need is not to win so much as to achieve a new kind of balance.

The trick is to know when militancy IS necessary, because it's always going to take everybody out of their comfort zone. It is so incredibly difficult to suss out the distinction between something being uncomfortable and something not resonating. I still am working with that wisdom. And it is in that spirit of continuing to balance on this matter that your thoughts are genuinely appreciated, Jade, as bringing out truth within me that I was having trouble reconciling.

[Jade]

Thank you for explaining, Jeremy. I agree with you, definitely. I believe we should all strive to be as nonviolent as possible in language and in action, so I have no desire to be "militant" at all. To me, militancy and stridency do not have the same connotations - to me, militant implies "violence" (by force), and strident implies "annoying" (also in a forceful way). I have tried very hard to be as even-keeled and unemotional about this as possible. I know I haven't succeeded 100% but I also do not feel like I have been violent or "militant". Are there places where I have used language or made claims that were "militant"? I certainly haven't insisted angrily that everyone must go vegan, hardly. It makes me wonder if it's just because the subject matter itself is violent, that discussing it makes people feel like the conversation, and those who are participating in the conversation, are violent? I'm trying to figure this out because these threads often shift over to ignoring the issue that I actually want to talk about, and instead, criticizing my/other vegan's delivery of the information they are trying to share. I'm trying to avoid the habit of shooting the messenger that tends to happen to people who bring light to issues that are difficult. The reasons I don't spend my efforts criticizing perceived meanness/militance in posts directed towards me, is because I feel it would just be a distraction to actually listening to what this person is trying to communicate to me, albeit in an imperfect way. Requiring that people achieve some unobtainable perfection of delivery before their views are taken as legitimate doesn't seem very fair to me. Of course, we should absolutely always strive for this perfection, as awareness allows.

I feel like I get a lot of, "Well, here is some advice about how you can make yourself more unified with Creation and appear more loving/accepting" in these discussions, as a bit of a strawman to the actual issue at hand. But at the same time, I fail to see how it is different than, "Well, we could become closer to unity/more loving/accepting by having some restraint from paying for systemic animal slaughter" - which is the actual, physical, tangible violence that is occurring.

I do not feel at war with people who eat meat. I feel like people who eat meat without restraint are at war with the planet. So whether you are implying that I am warring with meat eaters, or I am implying that meat eaters battle with second density - are these points of view militant? Aren't we all buying into the us vs them or them vs them mentality?

Furthermore, and this is the point I was really trying to make, the stridency and militancy is going to happen and is happening. Just because it is necessary doesn't mean it's what we are required to contribute in any given setting (and that is not a reflection on you or anybody on this thread; please understand I'm trying to think expansively on this topic). Personally I don't see any need to create more conflict, and when I do I frequently find my own flaws at work.

Furthermore, and this is the point I was really trying to make, the farming and slaughter of second density is going to happen and is happening. Just because it is necessary doesn't mean it's what we are required to contribute in any given setting (and that is not a reflection on you or anybody on this thread; please understand I'm trying to think expansively on this topic). Personally I don't see any need to create more conflict, and when I do I frequently find my own flaws at work.

I don't think our points of view are so different after all. I really appreciate you digging your heels in and working at this with me.

[Diana]

The trick is to know when militancy IS necessary, because it's always going to take everybody out of their comfort zone. It is so incredibly difficult to suss out the distinction between something being uncomfortable and something not resonating.  I still am working with that wisdom. And it is in that spirit of continuing to balance on this matter that your thoughts are genuinely appreciated, Jade, as bringing out truth within me that I was having trouble reconciling.

Sometimes our minds go through all sorts of convoluted mazes, fragmentation, and intellectual sidebars to avoid seeing truth and keep ourselves protected from it. I observed this in myself when I saw a counselor many years ago. I have always read prolifically, so I already knew a lot about psychology at that time. Over the several months I saw her, I was familiar with almost every device she was using to break through my defenses. It's not that I didn't consciously want those defenses to break down, but my subconscious mind, which had protected me in my childhood from trauma, was firmly in place doing its job like a loving sentinel.

I could actually feel myself inside veering away from certain things like light bending around mass. I was experiencing my own emotional survival kit, which had successfully helped me as a child.

The way I have found to counteract this protective tendency now, in adulthood when a less extreme version of this survival mechanism kicks in with everyday concerns, is to bravely and openly face myself no matter what. For example, if I find myself blaming another for an event, even if it looks objectively like I was a "victim," I try to push past resentment and find my part in it. In this way I have trained myself to loosen the grip of this particular survival instinct, whose job it is to protect my ego and my mental and emotional stability.

Regarding the conversations here, and especially in this most controversial subject—what to eat—the biggest block, as I see it, to understanding each other (not agreeing with each other) is taking offense. Taking offense is a great message to self. When I feel myself taking offense at anything, it is a signal to me to find my part in the exchange or event. Just as soon as I turn my attention in that direction, I feel the sense of being offended melt away. So being offended is useful to us. It is an opportunity to look at ourselves, not point the finger outward. But if we follow through with the natural tendency to point blame outwardly (only) to that which has ignited the feeling of being offended, the whole subject we are discussing becomes something else—a back-and-forth defensive position with sides. And this parallels exactly what my subconsciousness mind was doing when it was deflecting light from the childhood trauma it was protecting.

I may be simplifying the complexities of communication, but my purpose was to comment on the above challenge of discernment, and hopefully shed a little light on it.

[rva_jeremy]

Are there places where I have used language or made claims that were "militant"?

No. I am not singling you out for critique. I really don't seem to be able to stress this enough!

I wish we had an issue we could use as an example for discussing this where tensions were not so high already.

I'm sorry, Jade, but you are rendering service to me by going through all this so I thank you.

[rva_jeremy]

Taking offense is a great message to self. When I feel myself taking offense at anything, it is a signal to me to find my part in the exchange or event. Just as soon as I turn my attention in that direction, I feel the sense of being offended melt away. So being offended is useful to us. It is an opportunity to look at ourselves, not point the finger outward. But if we follow through with the natural tendency to point blame outwardly (only) to that which has ignited the feeling of being offended, the whole subject we are discussing becomes something else—a back-and-forth defensive position with sides. And this parallels exactly what my subconsciousness mind was doing when it was deflecting light from the childhood trauma it was protecting.

Whoa, this is next level wisdom. I have always felt that taking offense was a sort of way to take your ball and go home instead of engage. I have avoided at least acting on a sense of offense (with dismal results, it's usually just sublimated). But your suggestion is closer to a true Buddhist or Law of One approach: to treat it as catalyst. And isn't it always the problem with catalyst that it seems like an obstacle when it is really itself the path forward?

I still think this doesn't deal with the core problem of recognizing something as non-resonant (wrong for you) vs. uncomfortable (and therefore right for you). But it certainly is the case that we ought to be more curious about these things, and give our knee-jerk reactions the skepticism they often deserve. After all, is there anything bad for you that you can't learn from?

Thank you for this, Diana.

[xise]

Wow, this is like a green and blue ray lovefest. I love it.

[Minyatur]

Personally I'd add that it is a karma and that it is folly to challenge another veiled 3D being on their entanglement with a karma, when it requires to dive deeper within the self than it is natural to within this density, and expect something satisfying back. I haven't hid from it on these forums but I did see that to respond to the emotional challenge I had to open up a lot and see more deeply within myself all the whys and my state of entanglement, which has been a service in the end. People often ask words to define the wordless I think and they won't find satisfaction in that.

Bumping the idea I expressed here because I've stumbled across a Q'uo quote that nicely expressed something very close to it, which I think is very crucial whether looking at self or its other-selves.

Perhaps this particular messenger's voice has more weight than mine own :

In your free will you exercise that agency which is uniquely your own. And it does happen that you find within the exercise of that agency, which are typically hidden from you, so that you do not see to the very depth or core of your own motivations. You do not see to the depth or core of the source of events that befall you or of the impulses that overcome you. You are rather in a position where your consciousness glides upon the surface of very deep waters, if we may so speak, and what you think is the cause of a certain action, a certain plan of conduct on your part, may well not be all that you take it to be, may have dimensions, may have elements, may have roots in a reality far deeper than you can feature. That, too, is normal to third density. - Q'uo

One of the main points, ever since my joining of this forum, that I've been repeating regarding this subject is understanding how deeply rooted these things are within people and outside their conscious awareness. I think this is also heavily tied to respecting others' free will, not to be good, but because this is what helps positive transformation.

[Nicholas]

third density problems cannot be resolved with third density thinking

That would be incorrect.

Third density problems pertain to 3rd density, and their solutions also must pertain to third density.

Because all of these, together, define the experience that is called 3rd density.

In this particular topic regarding how it being difficult to give up meat due to the nature of 3rd density social complexes' social, psychological and spiritual pressure, the solution is right there in 3rd density as the problem, and it is the entity who decided to give up meat manifesting enough willpower to follow its decision against all pressure.

Its not mystical, magical, otherworldly or other-dimensional - just uncomfortable and difficult.

 Whether the new thinking that solves these problems arises from third density or fourth density consciousness, it is still a different quality of consciousness. 

I think I understand what you trying to articulate here Jeremy. Here is an excerpt from Marshall Rosenberg's  Living Nonviolent Communication  (also known as Compassionate Communication). Its a Q & A session towards the end of the book.

Q:  DOESN'T THE INFLUENCE OF RELIGION AND SPIRITUALITY PROMOTE PASSIVITY, OR AN OPIATE OF THE MASSES EFFECT?

Marshall: I'm very worried about any spirituality that allows us to sit comfortably in the world and say, "But I am helping the world. The energy alone coming from me is going to create social change." Rather, I trust a spirituality that leads people to go forward and transform the world, that doesn't just sit there with this beautiful image of radiating energy. I want to see that energy reflected in peoples actions as they go out and make things happen. It's something you do, a practical spirituality.

Q:  SO NONVIOLENT COMMUNICATION EVOLVED IN PART FROM SPIRITUAL ORIGINS?

Marshall: Nonviolent Communication evolved from my attempt to get conscious about Beloved Divine Energy and how to connect with it. I was dissatisfied with input from my chosen field of clinical psychology , because it was and is pathology-based and I didn't like its language. It didn't give me a view of the beauty of human beings.. So, after I got my degree, I decided to go more in the direction of Carl Rogers and Abraham Maslow. I decided to ask myself the scary questions, "What are we, and what are we meant to be?" I found that there was very little written about this in psychology. So I took a crash course in comparative religion, because I saw that it dealt more with this question. And this word love kept coming up in each of them. I used to hear the word love as many people used it-in a religious sense, like, "You should love everybody." I used to get really annoyed at the word love. "Oh yeah, I'm supposed to love Hitler?" I didn't know the words New Age Bullshit, but I used what was my equivalent back then. I tried to understand better what love means because I could see it had so much meaning for so many millions of people in all these religions. What is it, and how do you do this "love"? Nonviolent Communication really came out of my attempt to understand this concept of love and how to manifest it, how to do it. I came to the conclusion that it was not just something we feel, but it is something we manifest, something we do, something we have. And what is this manifestation? It is giving of ourselves in a certain way.

Q: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY GIVING OF OURSELVES?

Marshall: ...To give a gift of one's self is a manifestation of love. It's a gift when you reveal yourself nakedly and honestly, at any given moment, for no other purpose than to reveal what's alive in you. Just "Here I am and here is what I would like." This is my vulnerability at this moment. To me, that is a way of manifesting love. The other way we give of ourselves is through how we receive another persons message. To receive it empathically, connecting with what's alive in the other person, making no judgement. Just to hear what is alive in the other person and what that person would like. So Nonviolent Communication is just a manifestation of what I understand love to be. In that way it's similar to the Judeo-Christian concepts of "Love your neighbour as yourself" and "Judge not lest you be judged".



Marshall's words here remind me of the Ra quote where we turn all our cards up and abandon all strategic and analytic attempts to be "right". And I truly believe that in all of these passionate and heated topics, linking our emotions directly to our own personal needs has evaded us all at times. So getting back to that quality of consciousness, I very much believe that solutions arise when we give of ourselves to each other in this way. They will never come from our heads, rather they will appear spontaneously from the intelligent energy that we all take a leap of faith in connecting with, through the sharing of the naked truth within us. And who know's which throat that solution will burst out of!?

[Louisabell]

I do now eat small amounts of animal products because I was relying too much on foods with vegetable oil (not healthy).

What vegetable oils are you referring to that are not healthy?

Just the vegetable oil that is found in typical vegan "junk/convenience food". Honestly, I find the plant-based wholefoods oil-free (McDougall style) diet hard to stick to, mainly due to the mass of food you need to eat, as well all the preparation required.

I'm not aware of any typical vegan junk food. And a vegan diet isn't oil-free. Plant-based oils are more bioavailable (avocado, coconut oil, olive oil, nuts, etc.). There are unhealthy oils in most processed foods including hydrogenated oils, and they are not exclusive to vegetarian items. 

Junk/convenience food is unhealthy whether it is plant- or animal-based.

I have been vegan for some time. I find I eat less food than the typical omnivore, because the food I eat is nutrition-dense and lower on the food chain. I do eat a lot of raw food though, which is even more nutrition-packed. A handful of raw spinach is quite different than a handful of spinach cooked.

Addictions must be considered, and the bionome. The human body is host to a multitude of microorganisms calling the shots. It's estimated that microorganisms outnumber cells in a body by 10 - 1. The bionome changes in accordance to what we feed it (us). This sheds new light on addictions.

As far as prep time, I'm not sure there is much difference between omnivorous eating and vegan, if the omnivorous diet is whole foods. There is always prep time. If someone is living off of processed foods, then of course prep time would not be an issue, but health would.

Hi Diana - Sorry, I don't know why I never responded to this.

You're right by the way. I now eat more coconut, avocado and nut fats and butters so I don't have to consume as much mass to get calories. There are even Omega3 and DHA supplements now from algae, so I don't worry so much about my Omega 6:3 balance. I think I was just being lazy at the time.

So yeah, just wanted to say your response didn't fall on deaf ears, as I know it can sometimes seem that way.

[flofrog]

lol I can often seem to be deaf ears too.

I just wanted to add something because Jade and Jeremy have touched on something which I have had many thoughts for the longest time...

It’s about the concept of being called a militant, or not. I have been a vegetarian in my twenties, when starting to study Buddhism then. So most of my life I have been so, and more of a vegan in last decades, but once in a while a few times a year, I’ll suddenly will cook a small amount of ground meat. At birth which was after WW2 in france, I had severe anemia, and it could be this remnant or it could be due to something else, I am ashamed to say that I forgive myself each time this happens, as well as sorrow and gratefulness towards the animal slaughtered.

But I have been in protests either for peace, against war, or for ending animal slaughter. I have always felt non militant probably because I don’t quite feel militant feeling too lazy deep inside.

Anyway, I am very grateful to both Jade and Jeremy , and everyone on this thread, because I resent anger when I am in a protest and I am always borderline between being so ready to fight, get hurt, who cares, and also so ready to give up and let be.
There is ambiguity there inside me. Buddhism is interresting because as a non violent philosophy it also talks at time of ‘Rightful Anger”, and then some action.

Anyway, not sure this whole makes sense, but I wanted to say thank you anyway, in great part for this “uncomfortable “ and “not resonating “.

[kristina]

I'm not a fanatic vegetarian. My point is simple: They omitted the negative side of meat consumption.

This negative side being the actions against the animals (STS actions) and the metaphysical effects of meat consumption on our auras (there are black magicians who don't eat meat for that your energetc fields not lower the vibration).

But, perhaps, as someone said above, the problem was the question.

They also ommited the negative side of a lot of things.
No entity can give a laundry list of what is within their biases of what could be considered right or wrong, just or injust, nice or rude. That is an infringement. Does those of Ra eat meat, no, but they are not going to tell everyone who read the Law of One how they feel personally about all the things regarding the consumption of meat and what it can do to a person; on a spiritual leavel, auric level, moral level or anything further that could be listed.
Some need to eat meat and others products of animals and others none. What matters? In the 6th density we all coalesce and the separation become not. The most important lesson is the lesson of love, understanding and forgiveness which takes up this entire incarnation and will be within the next incarnation whether the 4th density or a repeat of the third.

[AnthroHeart]

Thanks for clearing up that the lessons of love take a whole incarnation. I guess they aren't easy.

[Tae]

The channeling reflects my feelings about meat. I still eat it, and don't feel particularly impacted by it (not at all like how I am impacted by alcohol, which is acting like drinking straight poison by now!) as long as I take some time prior to consuming the meat to connect with it and its experience and thank it for the sustenance it's providing for me, and wish that creature the best of luck in its next incarnation. Also, I buy meat from a local farm and local fishermen, where the meat has lived a happy wholesome life as best as possible, and like, if I wanted I could go and visit my future meat.

I realize it's a hot topic for many but I see all incidences of militant veganism as enforcing unnecessary divisions in our people. Heck, the channelling says that it's just as bad to kill a bean or a potato before its time, since all is alive and all is one. So we should extend that gratitude to everything we consume to sustain our current vessels.

There are many lessons to learn over a long period of time. It's a wonderful channeling.

[xise]

Really the whole vegan vegetarian meat-eating debate is going to be largely academic as the world population continues to increase due to the sheer environmental inefficiency and damage animal agriculture (even vegetarianism) causes. (Insert multiple articles here about how animal agriculture increases CO2 emissions per individual by +40% and increases land use by 3x+ what is needed for plant-based calories. Not even that controversial these days though the studies aren't widely known).

Simple efficiency will require land to be used for plant-based diet as opposed to animal farming, with minute amounts of sustainably hunted land animals that thrive in unfarmable land, and a small amount of sustainably fished seafood from the ocean. I think 200 years from now, everyone will basically be getting 98+% of their calories from plants just by virtue of existing on a planet that is getting close to max human population. Barring lab-created food, of course.

[Diana]

They also ommited the negative side of a lot of things.
No entity can give a laundry list of what is within their biases of what could be considered right or wrong, just or injust, nice or rude. That is an infringement. Does those of Ra eat meat, no, but they are not going to tell everyone who read the Law of One how they feel personally about all the things regarding the consumption of meat and what it can do to a person; on a spiritual leavel, auric level, moral level or anything further that could be listed.
Some need to eat meat and others products of animals and others none. What matters? In the 6th density we all coalesce and the separation become not. The most important lesson is the lesson of love, understanding and forgiveness which takes up this entire incarnation and will be within the next incarnation whether the 4th density or a repeat of the third.

That may be the most important lesson, but only if you're only concerned with humans. (Unless I have misinterpreted what you are saying.) 

The channeling reflects my feelings about meat. I still eat it, and don't feel particularly impacted by it (not at all like how I am impacted by alcohol, which is acting like drinking straight poison by now!) as long as I take some time prior to consuming the meat to connect with it and its experience and thank it for the sustenance it's providing for me, and wish that creature the best of luck in its next incarnation. Also, I buy meat from a local farm and local fishermen, where the meat has lived a happy wholesome life as best as possible, and like, if I wanted I could go and visit my future meat.

I realize it's a hot topic for many but I see all incidences of militant veganism as enforcing unnecessary divisions in our people. Heck, the channelling says that it's just as bad to kill a bean or a potato before its time, since all is alive and all is one. So we should extend that gratitude to everything we consume to sustain our current vessels.

There are many lessons to learn over a long period of time. It's a wonderful channeling.

It's definitely a big step getting meat from the sources you name. It reminds me of a scene in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, where the cow comes out to ask which parts of him the diners would like.

Would you consider organizations or people trying to stop the torturing and killing of children militant? Maybe. But all activism must push the envelope. People don't like to change.

And that gets to the core of the meat-eating issue: people, and what they want for themselves and their circle of people. There are other life forms here, and they are not here for our use only. There may be rare cases of people needing to eat animals, but the science is there to refute this in general. Hopefully there will be lab meat soon, so the suffering of factory farmed animals can stop.

Whatever channelings out there say about this issue, this is what we actually know:

1. Animals have nervous systems; plants don't. We KNOW animals feel pain. We know they experience terror (being slaughtered) and loss (as when the calves are taken away from their mothers).

2. If you trim a plant it can continue growing. You can't cut off a cow's leg and it will live.

3. Plants depend on animals eating their parts to propagate. They are engineered to be eaten. This is not to say that factory farming plants is good either. Ideally the raising of plants for food would be done with more love.

But however an animal is raised, and it is infinitely better that their lives are not continual torture as in factory-farm situations, it is absolutely clear that they experience terror and pain when slaughtered. 

Xise is correct that in order to survive on this planet we must stop the greenhouse gases caused by farming animals and adopt a plant-based diet, and The U.N. has issued a statement saying as much.

But to me there is more than just the survival of humankind. I'm sure we would all like to see wars, starvation, and human suffering end. We share this planet with each other and many nonhuman life forms. The other life forms matter too. 

[speedforce131]

Two lessons: That all are acceptable in it's own time, and that you are responsible for the knowledge that you gain. First, we live in a society where it is acceptable to eat meat. Until the time that it is not, it is currently okay to do so and legal. Second, which is the latter lesson that applies to the first. If you knowingly eat meat that was unethically produced, you fall into those "part of the problem and not the solution". You are knowingly making the choice which is harmful and that in itself can weigh heavily on you.

People who eat meat who did not know it was unethically produced are not responsible b/c they did not gain the knowledge that it's production process was unethical. All they know, is that this item is at the store, they paid for it legitimately and they consume said product. For people who do know, their calling is to make it known to the public what the abuses are and so on. Ensure that these companies stop operating and that the rest of the companies change the way they do business.

Lastly, there are a growing amount of people now who choose to be vegetarian, or choose to consume if it is only ethically harvested. We also have lab grown meat and 'meat replacements' made out of vegetables. I forgot which celebrity it was, but they backed a company that was selling ground beef substitutes in the ground beef section. It even looked like ground beef on the outside. The tides are changing and it will just take some time like everything else.

[AnthroHeart]

I've seen two restaurants (Burger King and Longhorn Cafe) offering the Impossible Burger, which is a vegetarian option. I wonder if you can't really tell the difference.

[Jade]

I tried the Impossible Burger last week which confirmed for me that I do not miss the taste of meat one bit. I'm perfectly content with seitan and soy.

Two "meat replacement" meals I've made and found very tasty:

https://blog.fatfreevegan.com/2016/07/ja...-ribs.html

https://itdoesnttastelikechicken.com/veg...n-tenders/

And philosophically and metaphysically, not only do the lessons of love extend to all parts of creation (including all of the tortured farm animals, and the effects of animal agriculture - the natural species extinction caused by dwindling old growth forests and ocean acidification), we are also here to understand and cooperate with our animal/second density natures. We are a mind/BODY/spirit complex - the body is second density, self-awareness is what is what makes us third density. There is plenty of mirrored reflection showing us how thoroughly we reject the natural experiences of even our own personal bodies, let alone the body as a macrocosm, which includes, again, the planet, the animals, the plants, the water, the air - these are all parts of our "body complex". Balancing includes harmonizing the mind and body, which allows the spirit to work its functions. Our planetary body needs healing, and I think it's wise for everyone to take actions that they believe are harmonious with helping heal the planet, much like we all should do if we feel a physical ailment in our own bodies. Have compassion for the injured second density physical complex, and offer love and patience and continued care as it heals.

As a group consciousness, we are still very actively using and abusing the planet as a whole in a really bad way. To me, animals are just one of the biggest and most obvious and desperate problem, and I believe that if people learn to feel their compassion for animals, naturally that can extend towards having more compassion for humans. As long as it's okay for us to enslave animals, we will be able to say that "well, this person is just like an animal!" and treat them poorly as well. We need universal standards for respect for all life.

And as far as my most personal feelings, I've never met anyone who didn't absolutely love almost all animals. If everyone knew what I knew and had seen what I have seen, they wouldn't want to eat them anymore, either. The ones we choose to eat are the most gentle souls, lambs and chicks and calves, and piglets! - and we do, we literally eat almost all of them as babies (because they taste better and it's cheapest). They are not killed "humanely", this is a marketing term - they are killed the fastest and cheapest and overall most efficient way they can. Why has this just become an extreme caricature of cruelty?

[Patrick]

We are having real difficulties finding good meat substitutes that are gluten free. In fact most vegan products we look at are a gluten fest. It's really getting annoying.

[xise]

Beyond meat is pea protein and vegan, and offered in Carl's Jr and Del Taco as of this year. It's quite tasty. Just had some beyond meat burgers for dinner (homemade, they sell them in whole foods).

[xise]

Xise is correct that in order to survive on this planet we must stop the greenhouse gases caused by farming animals and adopt a plant-based diet, and The U.N. has issued a statement saying as much.

It's not just greenhouses gases - land use is a huge problem. Whole swathes of forests are destroyed for farmland, and the vast majority of farmland is plants used in animal agriculture. Doing anything that requires large footprints of land decreases biodiversity and habitats for species on this planet. Land use and habitat destruction is a big reason why scientists say we're in a great mass extinction caused by human activity, and a significant portion of this is caused by land use for animal agriculture.

[Patrick]

Beyond meat is pea protein and vegan, and offered in Carl's Jr and Del Taco as of this year. It's quite tasty. Just had some beyond meat burgers for dinner (homemade, they sell them in whole foods).

And it's gluten free. Thanks for that.

[xise]

Meat and dairy companies to surpass oil industry as world’s biggest polluters, report finds

Not to beat a dead horse (at least almost-dead for me), but this article popped up moments ago on my facebook thread.

[xise]

Lol now I know why I can't quit facebook. As a source of alternative news (if you like the right facebook news sites), it's untouchable:

Beyond Meat soars 163% in biggest-popping U.S. IPO since 2000

Looks like beyond meat is here to stay. Go peas!

[flofrog]

We are having real difficulties finding good meat substitutes that are gluten free. In fact most vegan products we look at are a gluten fest. It's really getting annoying.

I guess the key is really just using nuts and beans and some grains in their own form and not as made as meat substitute ?

[Patrick]

We are having real difficulties finding good meat substitutes that are gluten free. In fact most vegan products we look at are a gluten fest. It's really getting annoying.

I guess the key is really just using nuts and beans and some grains in their own form and not as made as meat substitute ?

Yes. Mostly it's for the sake of diversity.