Your Thoughts Do Not Create Your Reality, Stupid.

[AnthroHeart]

I wonder how ego functions in a healthy social memory complex. Is there group ego? Or does ego dissolve into group awareness? Or perhaps individualization gets stronger in a social memory complex. You are more an individual when you have group connection. The sign of a more healthy blue ray.

[Parsons]

Sooooo, WHAT creates the **"placebo effect"** ??
That's the ultimate example of mind/though acting on matter !!

Placebo effect is more about our perceptions that influences our physical and psychological states. Placebo effect is a self-fulfilling prophecy that changes the brain chemistry to produce more endorphins, thus we 'feel better' or our 'pain level decreases'. It is not quite the same type of manifestation but a fulfillment of certain expectations that our minds are anticipating.

Then you don't believe that anger causes cancer as pe Ra?

[reeay]

I'm trying to connect my comment to your question. How did you get from placebo effect to believing in what Ra said?

Cancer is a type of catalyst as any illnesses. There are many reasons why person experiences cancer, which is personal to them, anger being one major factor, sure.

[Adonai One]

I wonder how ego functions in a healthy social memory complex. Is there group ego? Or does ego dissolve into group awareness? Or perhaps individualization gets stronger in a social memory complex. You are more an individual when you have group connection. The sign of a more healthy blue ray.

Every individual identity is embraced but soon become aspects of a single "I" like different masks.

[anagogy]

I wonder how ego functions in a healthy social memory complex. Is there group ego? Or does ego dissolve into group awareness? Or perhaps individualization gets stronger in a social memory complex. You are more an individual when you have group connection. The sign of a more healthy blue ray.

Yes, there is a group "ego" in a social memory complex. That is to say, there is a group self, or group identity. My understanding of ego is that it is merely a circumscribed boundary of consciousness (a self). The societal self is the hub of the social memory complex. Over the course of the densities, the the individualized self is gradually turned away from, until it is abandoned altogether in favor of the societal self. This doesn't indicate loss, but rather an lessening of the illusion of separation. Every individual soul pattern adds to the uniqueness and complexity of conscious expression the social memory complex is capable of.

It's like, if you were with a really good group of friends, who, over the course of time, became so absolutely familiar and comfortable with one another that they operated in perfect harmony, they begin to operate as one. In higher densities, this harmony among the group becomes so refined that the lines that separate one "friend" from another "friend" begin to dissolve. You begin to have two vantage points: the individual with its particularly specific perspective, and the social self, which is the culmination of all the individual vantage points.

If you identify with separation, unity is scary. Most egos do, unconsciously, identify with separation rather than understanding that they are a specific expression of the whole, so it's no surprise why there is so much disharmony on our world.

[Parsons]

The so called "placebo effect" is powerful enough to cause cancer... That is a lot more than producing endorphins to feel better.

---

40.9 Questioner: Has the vibration of the basic, of the photon, of all our particles increased in frequency already?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. It is this influence which has begun to cause thoughts to become things. As an example you may observe the thoughts of anger becoming those cells of the physical bodily complex going out of control to become what you call the cancer.

[reeay]

Placebo effect has more to do with treating illnesses rather than to cause illnesses. Person could have more positive outcomes (or negative outcomes) due to placebo intervention.

http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmen...ebo-effect

[Parsons]

My point is that thoughts become things however you label it, in keeping with the thread.

[reeay]

I think Ra was talking not of placebo effect specifically. There are those who have experienced reduction in tumor sizes due to placebo/control treatment (e.g., sugar pill) but the etiology of cancer is not part of this particular phenomenon. I do believe emotions and actions could also contribute to cancer, e.g., Dr. Christiane Northrup talks about how breast cancer in women may be partially due to the woman's tendency to give-give-give and deplete themselves as the breast is a symbol of nurturance for the babe (milk). So yes cancer may have some connection to thoughts, actions, emotions and so forth. Placebo effect is something seen in clinical trials of pharma drugs or even a person entering into some form of treatment/healing process whereby the illness symptoms improve or person goes into remission not due to the treatment itself but due to person's belief that the treatment is working in some ways.

[Parsons]

Isn't that literally the only reason anyone is healed?

66.10 Questioner: What is the difference, philosophically, between a mind/body/spirit complex healing itself through mental, shall I say, configuration or it being healed by an healer?
Ra: I am Ra. You have a misconception. The healer does not heal. The crystallized healer is a channel for intelligent energy which offers an opportunity to an entity that it might heal itself.

In no case is there an other description of healing. Therefore, there is no difference as long as the healer never approaches one whose request for aid has not come to it previously. This is also true of the more conventional healers of your culture and if these healers could but fully realize that they are responsible only for offering the opportunity of healing, and not for the healing, many of these entities would feel an enormous load of misconceived responsibility fall from them.

---

Allow me to clarify the point I am trying to make: Both positive and negative effects, including the development of any disease or healing thereof via a conventional OR nonconventional doctor OR by the self whether consciously(energy or 'magical' healing) or subconsciously(the placebo effect) is caused by the individual mind body spirit complex thought manifesting into physical reality.

[Hototo]

Therefore, there is no difference as long as the healer never approaches one whose request for aid has not come to it previously.

Love is an insult when given in a condition of not being requested. Then again, not giving love is an insult in a condition where it is requested, by the self of the self through the other self.

I've thought about this for a while now and I must admit, it puzzles me.

Loving entities can survive in a hateful environment by self sustaining.

Hateful entities cant survive in a loveful environment by self sustaining.

Loving entities can survive in a loveful environment.

Hateful entities have a chance to survive in a hateful environment.

This leads me to thinking that you get a wider range of potential variance of entities if your base vibration is one of either preferring for hatefulness or seeing no difference between hatefulness and lovingness in terms of worthyness of interaction.

I wonder if I could push this one step further and suggest that those entities that initially focus on and retain focus on love of other self/love of sellf will never see as many styles of entities that initially focus on hate of self/other self. Though initial transformation into love for other self is a mandatory step in evolution.

Feelings on this? This is less of a fully formulated theory at this point and more of a musing that I've been kicking around about how different entities would react in mass to various personality styles, infinity wide.

[Sagittarius]

Therefore, there is no difference as long as the healer never approaches one whose request for aid has not come to it previously.

Love is an insult when given in a condition of not being requested. Then again, not giving love is an insult in a condition where it is requested, by the self of the self through the other self.

I've thought about this for a while now and I must admit, it puzzles me.

Loving entities can survive in a hateful environment by self sustaining.

Hateful entities cant survive in a loveful environment by self sustaining.

Loving entities can survive in a loveful environment.

Hateful entities have a chance to survive in a hateful environment.

This leads me to thinking that you get a wider range of potential variance of entities if your base vibration is one of either preferring for hatefulness or seeing no difference between hatefulness and lovingness in terms of worthyness of interaction.

I wonder if I could push this one step further and suggest that those entities that initially focus on and retain focus on love of other self/love of sellf will never see as many styles of entities that initially focus on hate of self/other self. Though initial transformation into love for other self is a mandatory step in evolution.

Feelings on this? This is less of a fully formulated theory at this point and more of a musing that I've been kicking around about how different entities would react in mass to various personality styles, infinity wide.

Why can't hateful entities survive in a loving environment? Are you talking about the polarity of a planet? Like a hateful entity would not survive on a positive planet.

I wonder if this may be due to a reciprocal altruism of sorts.

[Hototo]

My estimate is that the effect of love sickens neutrals and negatives, if so then positives call love something which sickens 2/3rds of creation (negatives and neutrals) while hate is something which has no direct correlation to health (only amount of love, all other is essentially irrelevant). but is something no one can directly feed off of but everyone can use to feed off of others.

You cant directly feed from hate but what that hate can be used to do to other selves if / when they are present, which is why concept of total unity in time removes requirement for holding onto hate for the purpose of later usage for "intended" purpose.

Which means that hateful energies can be survived in by everyone, loving energies in by only some.

(STS dominance everywhere(no other option thought of before veil) but veil creates possibility of STO which ultimately becomes the dominant norm as all is accepted as love regardless of what is done)

Like I said, just a thought on the general topography of time/Space.

[reeay]

Isn't that literally the only reason anyone is healed?

66.10 Questioner: What is the difference, philosophically, between a mind/body/spirit complex healing itself through mental, shall I say, configuration or it being healed by an healer?
Ra: I am Ra. You have a misconception. The healer does not heal. The crystallized healer is a channel for intelligent energy which offers an opportunity to an entity that it might heal itself.

In no case is there an other description of healing. Therefore, there is no difference as long as the healer never approaches one whose request for aid has not come to it previously. This is also true of the more conventional healers of your culture and if these healers could but fully realize that they are responsible only for offering the opportunity of healing, and not for the healing, many of these entities would feel an enormous load of misconceived responsibility fall from them.

---

Allow me to clarify the point I am trying to make: Both positive and negative effects, including the development of any disease or healing thereof via a conventional OR nonconventional doctor OR by the self whether consciously(energy or 'magical' healing) or subconsciously(the placebo effect) is caused by the individual mind body spirit complex thought manifesting into physical reality.

Life is one big manifestation. My comment re: placebo effect was merely saying that it's not just contingent on thought but other physiological processes as well, which is not the type of manifestation as described in The Secret (which is what this thread is about if you read the OP article).

[ScottK]

I can only imagine the reaction I'd get with the project I'm currently working on and had a job to do for it, if I said "I thought about completing that task with great intent, therefore it is completed".

Perhaps the reaction would be "What are you smoking, and where can I get some.."


Thoughts (beliefs and knowings) create actions which create results. In other words, live in and know the reality you wish to manifest, get excited about it and work like a dog to create it, and then results seem to magically happen that almost can't be believed. That's the way to achieve your desires and objectives with consistency.. That's not to say thoughts can't produce results, but if you had to create a reality for yourself, I'll take thought and action every day of the week..

[Sagittarius]

My estimate is that the effect of love sickens neutrals and negatives, if so then positives call love something which sickens 2/3rds of creation (negatives and neutrals) while hate is something which has no direct correlation to health (only amount of love, all other is essentially irrelevant). but is something no one can directly feed off of but everyone can use to feed off of others.

You cant directly feed from hate but what that hate can be used to do to other selves if / when they are present, which is why concept of total unity in time removes requirement for holding onto hate for the purpose of later usage for "intended" purpose.

Which means that hateful energies can be survived in by everyone, loving energies in by only some.

(STS dominance everywhere(no other option thought of before veil) but veil creates possibility of STO which ultimately becomes the dominant norm as all is accepted as love regardless of what is done)

Like I said, just a thought on the general topography of time/Space.

Ahh yeh that makes sense now. That actually makes the concept of veil and pre-veil and the reason for it's development a bit clearer thanks.

[vilst3r]

I highly agree on everything that you have placed out. The idea of 'Wishful Thinking' highly appeals to the egos of 'inacceptance' and 'insecurity', that ironically that the 'universe is a catalogue' that we can manipulate, which is utterly delusional and highly effective in manipulating the insecure and gullible people.

Truth is, the idea of creating experiences is through performing 'action' based on an objective understanding of reality. Trusting in the process of the universe guiding everything to you is just detrimental to the whole purpose of creation. The idea is of creation is through understanding yourself, gaining the objective understanding which is then reflected upon reality through action. Deep and hard as this sounds, it's the truth that isn't deluded towards feeding positive or negative feelings towards individual, to see reality as it is.

The whole idea of people saying that this 'resonates' or 'has worked for me before' doesn't objectively confirm this process as truth. Sure you can feel aligned towards something, but it doesn't mean it's the true formula to living reality. The notion of 'wishful thinking' embodies no foundation or knowledge, apart from quantum physics saying that thoughts creating an impact upon reality, is this was true then why can't I just say for example, visualize myself flying away from this planet into 4th density or something. The quantum physics haven't objectively proved 'wishful thinking' to work, it employs that there is a correlation between thoughts and physical impact but that is based on one of their experiments and are we suppose to claim this theory is true universally? And the reinforced understanding of people claiming it has worked for them, wouldn't have been possible without contributing action with the appropriate thinking applied, not just visualizing an ideal image and letting it 'guide' your actions, and also to note that 'coincidences' happen but can you repeat these 'coincidences' with everything else, I don't think so.

People who accept these 'self-helping' materials don't realize the delusional ideas that they feed you. Imagine a society of 'wishful thinking', where everyone in the world just uses their thoughts to arrange the universe collectively, imagine the reality where nothing ever gets done with responsibility and action. This would bring no purpose of 'experience' of the creator, as people are magically summoning their desires in their 'reality. Remember that this reality is 'collective', it's illogical to consider one person arranging our reality based on their thoughts, it's too absurd and 'too good to be true'.

Many people disregard the criticism of 'wishful thinking', due to these people ego's, strongly attached towards these ideas and will do their uttermost to defend it through claims of not 'resonant' or trying to 'manipulate us. In all honesty, I'm just trying to reflect this notion in the most uttermost truth and understanding and I don't claim to crush anyone's beliefs to do this.

'May the truth set you free'

[Parsons]

I highly agree on everything that you have placed out. The idea of 'Wishful Thinking' highly appeals to the egos of 'inacceptance' and 'insecurity', that ironically that the 'universe is a catalogue' that we can manipulate, which is utterly delusional and highly effective in manipulating the insecure and gullible people.

Truth is, the idea of creating experiences is through performing 'action' based on an objective understanding of reality. Trusting in the process of the universe guiding everything to you is just detrimental to the whole purpose of creation. The idea is of creation is through understanding yourself, gaining the objective understanding which is then reflected upon reality through action. Deep and hard as this sounds, it's the truth that isn't deluded towards feeding positive or negative feelings towards individual, to see reality as it is.

The whole idea of people saying that this 'resonates' or 'has worked for me before' doesn't objectively confirm this process as truth. Sure you can feel aligned towards something, but it doesn't mean it's the true formula to living reality. The notion of 'wishful thinking' embodies no foundation or knowledge, apart from quantum physics saying that thoughts creating an impact upon reality, is this was true then why can't I just say for example, visualize myself flying away from this planet into 4th density or something. The quantum physics haven't objectively proved 'wishful thinking' to work, it employs that there is a correlation between thoughts and physical impact but that is based on one of their experiments and are we suppose to claim this theory is true universally? And the reinforced understanding of people claiming it has worked for them, wouldn't have been possible without contributing action with the appropriate thinking applied, not just visualizing an ideal image and letting it 'guide' your actions, and also to note that 'coincidences' happen but can you repeat these 'coincidences' with everything else, I don't think so.

People who accept these 'self-helping' materials don't realize the delusional ideas that they feed you. Imagine a society of 'wishful thinking', where everyone in the world just uses their thoughts to arrange the universe collectively, imagine the reality where nothing ever gets done with responsibility and action. This would bring no purpose of 'experience' of the creator, as people are magically summoning their desires in their 'reality. Remember that this reality is 'collective', it's illogical to consider one person arranging our reality based on their thoughts, it's too absurd and 'too good to be true'.

Many people disregard the criticism of 'wishful thinking', due to these people ego's, strongly attached towards these ideas and will do their uttermost to defend it through claims of not 'resonant' or trying to 'manipulate us. In all honesty, I'm just trying to reflect this notion in the most uttermost truth and understanding and I don't claim to crush anyone's beliefs to do this.

'May the truth set you free'

I'm glad you are expressing your truth, although many points do not agree with my truth.

[vilst3r]

I'm glad you are expressing your truth, although many points do not agree with my truth.

It's ultimately your choice whether or not, you believe in the ideal notion of wishful thinking. If so, perhaps give me insight upon your understanding so I can discuss

[Hototo]

ideal notion of wishful thinking

To me this sounds like;

Optimum concept of manifesting by thought.

If you remove the emotional bias from the words and look for the most neutral notion towards the total concept.

[reeay]

It seems like Parsons you're very passionate about how you view this topic. Have you read The Secret and other new age self-help type books or seen videos? It is distorted teaching that gets put out to the mass public that shows narrow aspects of manifestation without the broader understanding of 'how things works' like Ra did in LOO.

I would think wishful thinking pertains to wishes or one's desire, which is the immediate needs of that person for something. Self-help books read like, get rich quick or fix your relationship with these 10 steps and it's very much satiation of wishes or desires, and techniques to achieve specific goals, without going deeper to the root of the wish. But this is the kind of 'illness' of our society - which could stem from 'affluenza'/materialism.

In my early 20s I did rituals and manifested opportunities to meet the perfectly compatible guy but what I got pretty much was 'perfect' + 'other stuff' that I realized mirrored my own. So there is value in doing basic work of going deeper than merely, 'I want ----'. I guess I didn't want what I thought I wanted but it was a great opportunity for learning about self.

There is much to be said about being in a mind-set of healing and how the mind is powerful. Sure, it truly is. Thinking, 'I know this will work' doesn't necessarily work all the time. In studies with cancer patients, researchers found mix effects of mental outlook and desires to get well. Sometimes people who were very optimistic about their prognosis and actively participating in their treatment did better and other times those who were pessimistic about their prognosis did better. Sugar pills work about 20-50% of the time I think (I'd rather take sugar pills than western medicine tho lol). But it cannot be a legit treatment bc 1) deception is involved, 2) other things work better than it does, and 3) you can get sued in this world if you prescribe sugar pill.

[Parsons]

I highly agree on everything that you have placed out. The idea of 'Wishful Thinking' highly appeals to the egos of 'inacceptance' and 'insecurity', that ironically that the 'universe is a catalogue' that we can manipulate, which is utterly delusional and highly effective in manipulating the insecure and gullible people.

I'm not sure on terminology, which is why I find it difficult to reply directly to this; but if I use contextual clues, it seems as though you believe that linear time is the only reality. I know all possibilities exist and it is possible to shift to different realities where I made different decisions and had different thoughts which resulted in a very different version of Earth. Thus you can decide which version of reality you end up, although movies like "What the Bleep" offer an extremely simplified version of the concept. I don't recall ever seeing The Secret, so I can't comment too much about it. The basic concept seems to match up with what I understand, so I will say it is essentially true with some distortions.

Truth is, the idea of creating experiences is through performing 'action' based on an objective understanding of reality. Trusting in the process of the universe guiding everything to you is just detrimental to the whole purpose of creation. The idea is of creation is through understanding yourself, gaining the objective understanding which is then reflected upon reality through action. Deep and hard as this sounds, it's the truth that isn't deluded towards feeding positive or negative feelings towards individual, to see reality as it is.

I disagree strongly with your valuing of performing action in an 'objective' reality. I would cite the infamous quote from Thomas Edison declaring that "genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration"; Nikola Tesla disagreed. Upon Edison's death, Tesla was quoted in the New York Times as saying, "His method was inefficient in the extreme...just a little theory and calculation would have saved him 90 percent of the labor." Today, a huge chunk of modern technology is based on Tesla's work rather than Edison's.

I don't even believe this illusion is objective. An example to tie it in to the channeling work of L/L Research is an incident where some members were channeling an entity and asked to see the entity's ship. The entity asked them to go outside. One person saw a ship and one didn't. How's that for objective perceptions of reality?

"Trusting in the process of the universe guiding everything to you is just detrimental to the whole purpose of creation." I could not disagree more and believe in the inverse of your statement. The higher mind (what some have simplistically referred to as God) is arranging things for you, and you are simply reacting to those catalysis.

I do strongly agree with your thought that it is most salient to understand yourself, however.

The whole idea of people saying that this 'resonates' or 'has worked for me before' doesn't objectively confirm this process as truth. Sure you can feel aligned towards something, but it doesn't mean it's the true formula to living reality. The notion of 'wishful thinking' embodies no foundation or knowledge, apart from quantum physics saying that thoughts creating an impact upon reality, is this was true then why can't I just say for example, visualize myself flying away from this planet into 4th density or something. The quantum physics haven't objectively proved 'wishful thinking' to work, it employs that there is a correlation between thoughts and physical impact but that is based on one of their experiments and are we suppose to claim this theory is true universally? And the reinforced understanding of people claiming it has worked for them, wouldn't have been possible without contributing action with the appropriate thinking applied, not just visualizing an ideal image and letting it 'guide' your actions, and also to note that 'coincidences' happen but can you repeat these 'coincidences' with everything else, I don't think so.

You are clearly basing your logic out of mainstream physics and don't actually explore a realistic view of what quantum physics is starting to scratch the surface of. This is very late 3D/very early 4D reality in 3D vehicles. You can't literally visualize yourself "flying away from this planet into 4th density reality" and expect that to happen. If you frame your thoughts correctly, however, you can accelerate the coming of 4D in YOUR reality, although it will likely not happen overnight.

Correct me if I am incorrect, but your words seem to imply a need to objectively prove everything with repeatable scientific experiments that have a 100% predictable outcome. If that's your view, it further exposes your belief in modern science's empiricism and reductionism. I suggest you look in to the work of Dean Radin if you want to expand your research of thoughts affective physical reality from a scientific standpoint. I also suggest you research if the person (Isaac Newton) who is the basis of empiricism and reductionism actually believed in what he was preaching.

People who accept these 'self-helping' materials don't realize the delusional ideas that they feed you. Imagine a society of 'wishful thinking', where everyone in the world just uses their thoughts to arrange the universe collectively, imagine the reality where nothing ever gets done with responsibility and action. This would bring no purpose of 'experience' of the creator, as people are magically summoning their desires in their 'reality. Remember that this reality is 'collective', it's illogical to consider one person arranging our reality based on their thoughts, it's too absurd and 'too good to be true'.

It's all a matter of perspective. Your (current) truth is that this way of thinking is 'delusional', but from my standpoint, the school of thought you subscribe to which seems to be the distortion complexes of this tiny world, actually appears delusional to myself. Your model of how a society would work that believes in intuition, synchronicity, and thoughts creating your reality is highly unrealistic. In my vision of such a society, everyone and everything would simply follow their intuition, their highest excitement; so everyone and everything needed would simply be there the moment you needed it. Things would get done much more efficiently than they are now in such a reality. But of course due to free will, I know what I know, and you believe in what you want to believe. Neither is 'ultimate objective truth' of reality, especially considering there are other universes/physically realities that follow completely different laws of physics.

Many people disregard the criticism of 'wishful thinking', due to these people ego's, strongly attached towards these ideas and will do their uttermost to defend it through claims of not 'resonant' or trying to 'manipulate us. In all honesty, I'm just trying to reflect this notion in the most uttermost truth and understanding and I don't claim to crush anyone's beliefs to do this.

'May the truth set you free'

Ironically, I find your dismissal and refusal to even look at the concept seriously to be extremely negative-ego-centric. Also ironic is the fact of your defending the basic tenets of the distortion complexes of this 3D illusion out of fear than your entire view of reality is built on quicksand. In fact, your statement is interchangeable with how I view your version of reality, so I will reflect it back to you: " due to these people ego's, strongly attached towards these ideas and will do their uttermost to defend it through claims of not 'resonant'".

I specifically point out the idea of "resonance" since so many entities that contacted L/L Research insist on taking what resonates with you and leaving the rest because if you took all the information contained in the L/L channelings without leaving anything, nearly your entire argument conflicts with that information.

Anyways, to highlight how thoughts create your reality or as you call it "wishful thinking", I will give an extremely common misconception for newbies AND sceptics who blanket-denounce the concept. If you try to manifest something EXTREMELY specific, it essentially never works. For example, a lot of people will try to manifest "a million dollars" or some specific monetary amount. If you put yourself in the correct mindset to receive abundance in such a case (and ONLY if), you will receive abundance in some way. You may want a sack of money, but you may receive help from another avenue and if you aren't perceptive to synchronicity, you miss that you actually received the abundance that you asked for. Thus if you are a newbie or a skeptic, you may think "well that didn't work, this wishful thinking thing is a load of crap!".

I'm glad you are expressing your truth, although many points do not agree with my truth.

It's ultimately your choice whether or not, you believe in the ideal notion of wishful thinking. If so, perhaps give me insight upon your understanding so I can discuss

I don't find 'wishful thinking' to be an ideal notion. I have 'given you my insight' on the matter, so you may try to discuss (try to convince me your school of thought is the 'right' one) if you like. I must caution you though, I actually came from a nearly identical way of thinking, so it will be an extremely tough sell.

I would not even be replying to your post point for point had you not directly asked me to do so since we are simply preaching our own opposing viewpoints to people of the opposite viewpoint. It is like a minister busting in to an advanced physics class and declaring it blasphemy, or like a physics professor busting in to Sunday Mass and declaring them all lunatics. So I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree on this subject. However, I do find this thread and in particular this post to conflict with most of the Ra Material and other L/L Research material, so I must say it seems like one of my previous examples of a person or topic of opposite viewpoints preaching to the opposition.

---

It seems like Parsons you're very passionate about how you view this topic. Have you read The Secret and other new age self-help type books or seen videos? It is distorted teaching that gets put out to the mass public that shows narrow aspects of manifestation without the broader understanding of 'how things works' like Ra did in LOO.

I am quite passionate about this concept in general, which I see as one of the common thread throughout all channelings and in these simplified self help style movies/books. As I mentioned previously, I have not specifically read The Secret, although I have seen snippets of videos of it on YouTube. I have seen What the Bleep, which was mentioned somewhere in the thread. I do agree this type of media does display a distorted/narrow view of manifestation without the more holistic view of the LOO and other complementary information.

I would think wishful thinking pertains to wishes or one's desire, which is the immediate needs of that person for something. Self-help books read like, get rich quick or fix your relationship with these 10 steps and it's very much satiation of wishes or desires, and techniques to achieve specific goals, without going deeper to the root of the wish. But this is the kind of 'illness' of our society - which could stem from 'affluenza'/materialism.

I also agree they do seem quite gimmicky. Where we diverge in opinion is that it is a 'bad' thing. I see it as adapting an extremely helpful concept to the point where a much larger audience can be exposed to it. If they are at a stage where they are ready to 'wake up', they will see the inconsistencies in it yet find value in the basic concept and delve further into it, hopefully stumbling on material such as the Ra Material which offers a much broader view. If even 1% of the people who run into The Secret or What the Bleep first and end up on the path to awakening, I call it a good thing.

In my early 20s I did rituals and manifested opportunities to meet the perfectly compatible guy but what I got pretty much was 'perfect' + 'other stuff' that I realized mirrored my own. So there is value in doing basic work of going deeper than merely, 'I want ----'. I guess I didn't want what I thought I wanted but it was a great opportunity for learning about self.

I can't nail down exactly when I went through this stage of thinking, but I certainly did go through being too specific about what I was trying to manifest, so I can certainly relate. Actually, a more recent example which is related IMO is when I wanted to manifest my 'soul mate' after a pending divorce with my wife. I thought there was the 'perfect person' out there for me. I realized only recently that a 'soul mate' could be a person who challenges you and that everything would not necessarily be 'perfect and harmonious' between us. It was actually around that time that my wife miraculously said the ONLY thing that would ever allow me to take her back, and I did and we have been together since. I then synchronistically stumbled on a channeling that outlined the basic concept that a soul mate isn't necessarily someone who you agree with on everything and who might challenge you.

There is much to be said about being in a mind-set of healing and how the mind is powerful. Sure, it truly is. Thinking, 'I know this will work' doesn't necessarily work all the time. In studies with cancer patients, researchers found mix effects of mental outlook and desires to get well. Sometimes people who were very optimistic about their prognosis and actively participating in their treatment did better and other times those who were pessimistic about their prognosis did better. Sugar pills work about 20-50% of the time I think (I'd rather take sugar pills than western medicine tho lol). But it cannot be a legit treatment bc 1) deception is involved, 2) other things work better than it does, and 3) you can get sued in this world if you prescribe sugar pill.

I agree it is extremely important what kind of mindset you are in regards to healing. People who are optimistic or pessimistic about their prognoses aren't necessarily that way subconsciously. There is so much dishonestly here, especially with the self, you can hardly take someone's word on something like that. Hell, if I put myself in the shoes of a cancer patient, on the surface I would be optimistic about healing it, since I know I can suss out the origin of the cancel. However, I honestly don't know if my subconscious would be so sure, which is what really counts in that type of situation.

[BrownEye]

In my early 20s I did rituals and manifested opportunities to meet the perfectly compatible guy but what I got pretty much was 'perfect' + 'other stuff' that I realized mirrored my own.

I remember a warning about magic that I found to be a useful concept. It was stated that when we try to force things, such as 'the perfect mate', that we are not forcing the other person. And that if the only type of person that potential mate is attracted to is a handicapped person, we in effect end up with a handicap (such as losing an arm) to bring about this persons love. I thought it a great concept that is never taken into account.

As for thoughts creating reality............I did happen to manifest a replacement vehicle within 10 minutes of request to an archangel. I was the only person on a straight street and I seemed to become invisible to a guy at a stop sign. Even when he hit me he could not see me in front of him. It was the awesomeness I always wanted to see as far as reality bending.

When I sent this request, I was under a lot of duress as far as the vehicle I had. So there was intense emotion sent with my request.

This sort of thing has happened twice, and both times I end up taking a new turn that I would not normally take. And there is a haze about the moment. After the incidents the general feeling is almost like having been possessed. Something had redirected me away from my normal course in order to meet another person on a particular course.

I feel as if there is the intent/emotion to set things in play, then there is the relaxation where we allow ourselves to be placed in front of the opportunities. And the less emotion that goes into the setup, the longer it takes to manifest.

[vilst3r]

I'm not sure on terminology, which is why I find it difficult to reply directly to this; but if I use contextual clues, it seems as though you believe that linear time is the only reality. I know all possibilities exist and it is possible to shift to different realities where I made different decisions and had different thoughts which resulted in a very different version of Earth. Thus you can decide which version of reality you end up, although movies like "What the Bleep" offer an extremely simplified version of the concept. I don't recall ever seeing The Secret, so I can't comment too much about it. The basic concept seems to match up with what I understand, so I will say it is essentially true with some distortions.

To put out there, I do believe non-linear time is possible in terms of the theory taught in physics. But I don't logically confirm that it currently exists in our reality, surely people such as David Wilcock has always made reference to his 'whistle blowers' about revealing hidden government time travel material, which he never ever proves and most of us don't deny or criticize whether his source of information is authentic or not.

In terms of the highlighted lines, you seem to value 'subjective' reality' with certainty, I'd like to throw a question, are your decisions endless or limited?

Surely It's universally agreeable that different thoughts and decisions lead to a different reality, which is what people usually contemplate after regret or something, but what are your possible choices in terms of shifting to 'any' reality?

I have a hunch that I've picked this up from Bashar, which I now strongly believe is a fraud, which I can expand my justifications if you want.

I disagree strongly with your valuing of performing action in an 'objective' reality. I would cite the infamous quote from Thomas Edison declaring that "genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration"; Nikola Tesla disagreed. Upon Edison's death, Tesla was quoted in the New York Times as saying, "His method was inefficient in the extreme...just a little theory and calculation would have saved him 90 percent of the labor." Today, a huge chunk of modern technology is based on Tesla's work rather than Edison's.

I don't even believe this illusion is objective. An example to tie it in to the channeling work of L/L Research is an incident where some members were channeling an entity and asked to see the entity's ship. The entity asked them to go outside. One person saw a ship and one didn't. How's that for objective perceptions of reality?

The quote from Edison disagrees with my position I’m coming from, as I mentioned earlier that actions are based on an ‘objective understanding’ first, ‘1% inspiration and 99% perspiration’ in my understanding, emphasizes hard work more than inspiration or thinking.

The incident you have referred to, is very hard to accept in terms of reinforcing subjective reality. Are these recollections of Ra or whoever is describing this incident, accurate and confirmable? The nature of historic events are hard to accept, without the conjunction of personal memory and ‘documented’ sources. Surely UFO’s do exist currently, as governments have disclosed authentic documented files in conjunction with personal affirmations, but how do we accept this event as being true, where one person sees it and the other doesn’t. The source only acknowledges a ‘personal representation’ without any objective evidence to complement it, to form an accurate representation to accept. Many people will believe into these types of information. But with critical thinking applied, people are able to discern accuracies and discrepancies from these sources of information. The reference you’ve represented is very difficult for me to accept as an accurate representation in supporting subjective reality.

You are clearly basing your logic out of mainstream physics and don't actually explore a realistic view of what quantum physics is starting to scratch the surface of. This is very late 3D/very early 4D reality in 3D vehicles. You can't literally visualize yourself "flying away from this planet into 4th density reality" and expect that to happen. If you frame your thoughts correctly, however, you can accelerate the coming of 4D in YOUR reality, although it will likely not happen overnight.

I have to say, most of the logic that derives from mainstream physics actually exemplifies an objective representation of reality which is responsible for building towards an objective perception of reality.

Objective knowledge can't be distorted or imbalanced as it's proven with reason and experiment, isn't this indicative of a balanced perception which Ra seems to emphasize in the Law of One, how unlocking the green energy center for 4D requires balancing of the first three energy centers which represent physicality, self and social acceptance of the reality as it is?

I disagree with the highlighted line, implying by visualizing this sensation, will lead to a spiritual growth? I'll be willingly to throw my money to see you that happen

Correct me if I am incorrect, but your words seem to imply a need to objectively prove everything with repeatable scientific experiments that have a 100% predictable outcome. If that's your view, it further exposes your belief in modern science's empiricism and reductionism. I suggest you look in to the work of Dean Radin if you want to expand your research of thoughts affective physical reality from a scientific standpoint. I also suggest you research if the person (Isaac Newton) who is the basis of empiricism and reductionism actually believed in what he was preaching.

You are correct, without building a solid foundation or understanding of certain notions, it's similar to the idea of jumping off an plane with no parachute attached.

I'm not highly aware of empiricism and reductionism in terms of education but from what I've read by the definitions, I'm highly inclined to accepting that part of my beliefs systems are aligned with empiricism, although I do advocate rationalism to complement a more full understanding of thoughts. The idea of thoughts affecting physical reality can't be proven by one side of a standpoint, much like the idea of a coin, you need acceptance of both sides to get the whole coin. In this case correct me if I'm wrong, that empiricism and rationalism are opposing philosophies in terms of understanding reality, then sensory experiences only, will not provide the intellectual capacity that rationalism has, therefore the confirmation of theories like this, can't be based on towards one standpoint as to speak.

It's all a matter of perspective. Your (current) truth is that this way of thinking is 'delusional', but from my standpoint, the school of thought you subscribe to which seems to be the distortion complexes of this tiny world, actually appears delusional to myself. Your model of how a society would work that believes in intuition, synchronicity, and thoughts creating your reality is highly unrealistic. In my vision of such a society, everyone and everything would simply follow their intuition, their highest excitement; so everyone and everything needed would simply be there the moment you needed it. Things would get done much more efficiently than they are now in such a reality. But of course due to free will, I know what I know, and you believe in what you want to believe. Neither is 'ultimate objective truth' of reality, especially considering there are other universes/physically realities that follow completely different laws of physics.

Another Bashar reference that I'm highly fond of, I'll explain why he's work is distorted and deceptive in another post

In the highlighted line, I couldn't disagree more and I can't stress how many people have accepted this distorted idea. Without action, nothing would ever get accomplished in this world, people believe visualizing positive thoughts and sending 'love and light' to the world will make it a better place. When this perception of idea is accepted from an individual, the 'ignorance' of negative experiences of the reality arises, why is our world still experiencing government turmoils and suffering of human warfare after so many years? The lack of acceptance of these negative experiences and responsibilities prevent attention and action driven towards a solution to these global experiences. Ignorance is dangerous, as individuals are highly polarized towards their 'highest excitement' ignoring any negative experiences thinking that they will shift to a positive reality where they are safely hidden.

The result of this notion accumulates globally and results in the manipulation of people much like the Stockholm syndrome. Governments and major power authorities will be able to manipulate people into a 'subjective' TV, giving complete power to these groups of people as explored in the idea of totalitarianism in George Orwell's '1984'.

Ironically, I find your dismissal and refusal to even look at the concept seriously to be extremely negative-ego-centric. Also ironic is the fact of your defending the basic tenets of the distortion complexes of this 3D illusion out of fear than your entire view of reality is built on quicksand. In fact, your statement is interchangeable with how I view your version of reality, so I will reflect it back to you: " due to these people ego's, strongly attached towards these ideas and will do their uttermost to defend it through claims of not 'resonant'".

Extremely negative-ego-centric, I strongly disagree. I'm not in any selfish way, trying to gain anything from dismissing 'wishful thinking' than to reflect my opinion in all honesty.

I'm don't entirely understand this line completely, I'm suggesting you meant 'that' in place of 'than' and 'concrete' in place of 'quicksand' as my view of reality is concrete and not reshapable like the nature of 'quicksand', although do clarify if I'm wrong.

In response to my interchangeable statement, it's true that in a way, I am defending my position because the conflict of perspectives inevitably involves defending and accepting beliefs from time to time, reshaping knowledge which is what I intend to reflect in this discussion in relation to objective understanding

I specifically point out the idea of "resonance" since so many entities that contacted L/L Research insist on taking what resonates with you and leaving the rest because if you took all the information contained in the L/L channelings without leaving anything, nearly your entire argument conflicts with that information.

Agreed, most of argument does embody conflict in certain aspects of the Law of One material, but I do consider acceptance of some of the values like balancing and so forth which I have referred to in this argument.

---

Anyways, to highlight how thoughts create your reality or as you call it "wishful thinking", I will give an extremely common misconception for newbies AND sceptics who blanket-denounce the concept. If you try to manifest something EXTREMELY specific, it essentially never works. For example, a lot of people will try to manifest "a million dollars" or some specific monetary amount. If you put yourself in the correct mindset to receive abundance in such a case (and ONLY if), you will receive abundance in some way. You may want a sack of money, but you may receive help from another avenue and if you aren't perceptive to synchronicity, you miss that you actually received the abundance that you asked for. Thus if you are a newbie or a skeptic, you may think "well that didn't work, this wishful thinking thing is a load of crap!".

Agreed upon your example

Although there is difficulty in understanding synchronicity whether it logically builds up to the desire or is an intuitive sign that individuals must be aware of, this makes the idea of wishful thinking very subjective and makes it quite distorted really.

So I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree on this subject. However, I do find this thread and in particular this post to conflict with most of the Ra Material and other L/L Research material, so I must say it seems like one of my previous examples of a person or topic of opposite viewpoints preaching to the opposition.

Agreed to disagree indeed, I'd like to drop this link from youtube to clarify my 'school of thoughts' if you've missed any

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is3CPHzCg_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrAgb1-UKQ8

[reeay]

In my early 20s I did rituals and manifested opportunities to meet the perfectly compatible guy but what I got pretty much was 'perfect' + 'other stuff' that I realized mirrored my own.

I remember a warning about magic that I found to be a useful concept. It was stated that when we try to force things, such as 'the perfect mate', that we are not forcing the other person. And that if the only type of person that potential mate is attracted to is a handicapped person, we in effect end up with a handicap (such as losing an arm) to bring about this persons love. I thought it a great concept that is never taken into account.

As for thoughts creating reality............I did happen to manifest a replacement vehicle within 10 minutes of request to an archangel. I was the only person on a straight street and I seemed to become invisible to a guy at a stop sign. Even when he hit me he could not see me in front of him. It was the awesomeness I always wanted to see as far as reality bending.

When I sent this request, I was under a lot of duress as far as the vehicle I had. So there was intense emotion sent with my request.

This sort of thing has happened twice, and both times I end up taking a new turn that I would not normally take. And there is a haze about the moment. After the incidents the general feeling is almost like having been possessed. Something had redirected me away from my normal course in order to meet another person on a particular course.

I feel as if there is the intent/emotion to set things in play, then there is the relaxation where we allow ourselves to be placed in front of the opportunities. And the less emotion that goes into the setup, the longer it takes to manifest.

True you get what you ask for when you ask for perfect lol.

I do believe emotions are key. I also used emotions as way to connect to other sources of guidance and such. There is a book that is better than The Secret, the Intention Experiment where Lynn McTaggart presents studies on intention setting. Couple of neat ones.

(ones I remember)
Since the brain has no way to distinguish time (only perceive time so make interpretations), we can imagine that something has already happened and become excited about it. I did this before a very big exam and got the result (altho I did not study much I knew I would pass tho, but it helped to curb my anxiety over passing). The night before I did the whole, 'YES I PASSED' routine and distracted myself from the anxiety.

Mohammad Ali made poems about his successful defeat of his opponents and chanted it before his fights with conviction, I guess.

She called buddhist monks 'intention masters' due to their ability to alter their mind/body etc through practice of meditation.

[Parsons]

I will make a full reply when I get back from vacation in a couple of weeks. Thanks for the reply.

[AnthroHeart]

I wonder how ego functions in a healthy social memory complex. Is there group ego? Or does ego dissolve into group awareness? Or perhaps individualization gets stronger in a social memory complex. You are more an individual when you have group connection. The sign of a more healthy blue ray.

Yes, there is a group "ego" in a social memory complex. That is to say, there is a group self, or group identity. My understanding of ego is that it is merely a circumscribed boundary of consciousness (a self). The societal self is the hub of the social memory complex. Over the course of the densities, the the individualized self is gradually turned away from, until it is abandoned altogether in favor of the societal self. This doesn't indicate loss, but rather an lessening of the illusion of separation. Every individual soul pattern adds to the uniqueness and complexity of conscious expression the social memory complex is capable of.

It's like, if you were with a really good group of friends, who, over the course of time, became so absolutely familiar and comfortable with one another that they operated in perfect harmony, they begin to operate as one. In higher densities, this harmony among the group becomes so refined that the lines that separate one "friend" from another "friend" begin to dissolve. You begin to have two vantage points: the individual with its particularly specific perspective, and the social self, which is the culmination of all the individual vantage points.

If you identify with separation, unity is scary. Most egos do, unconsciously, identify with separation rather than understanding that they are a specific expression of the whole, so it's no surprise why there is so much disharmony on our world.

Does this happen in mid-sixth density when higher self is achieved, or in seventh density? I don't really want to identify with separation, I want to achieve unity. I hope to taste a bit of unity in 4th density.

[anagogy]

Does this happen in mid-sixth density when higher self is achieved, or in seventh density? I don't really want to identify with separation, I want to achieve unity. I hope to taste a bit of unity in 4th density.

The individuated self doesn't go completely away until 7th density.

But by sixth density, there is not separation between one portion of a social memory complex and another portion, except perhaps in relation to the past self frame of reference, and in the "tendrils" or ethereal vessels they manifest for their consciousness.

As Ra says:

17.13 Questioner: When I am communicating with you as Ra, are you at times [an] individualized entity or am I speaking to the entire complex?

Ra: I am Ra. You speak with Ra. There is no separation. You would call it a social memory complex thus indicating many-ness. To our understanding, you are speaking to an individualized portion of consciousness.

Ra is saying here that while, from our perception, a social memory complex is a group of entities sharing their thoughts, feelings, and memories with one another, from their sixth density perception the social memory complex is a singular individualized entity.

So your Higher Self is as much the whole social memory complex, as it is an individualized mind/body/spirit.

You don't have to wait for a higher density to taste unity though. You are, at all times, already One with all that is. You are All That Is looking through a kind of "lens" which equals the reality you see about you.

95.25 Questioner: I have often wondered about the action of random and programmed catalyst with respect to the entity with the very strong positive or negative polarization. Would one or either be free to a great extent from random catalyst occurring such as great natural catastrophes or warfare or something like that [that] generates a lot of random catalyst in the physical vicinity of a highly polarized entity? Does this great cat, then, have effect on such random catalyst upon the right-hand path?

Ra: I am Ra. In two circumstances this is so. Firstly, if there has been the pre-incarnative choice that, for instance, one shall not take life in the service of the cultural group, events shall fall in a protective manner. Secondly, if any entity is able to dwell completely in unity the only harm that may occur to it is the changing of the outward physical, yellow-ray vehicle into the more light-filled mind/body/spirit complex’s vehicle by the process of death. All other suffering and pain is as nothing to one such as this.

We may note that this perfect configuration of the mind, body, and spirit complexes, while within the third-density vehicle, is extraordinarily rare.

Just as any being may heal if they have the consciousness of spirit, which is 3rd density on up, a being of our density may dwell in conscious unity even though it is rare, they just have more illusory material to see through.

I think a good start would be reading The Power of Now, by Eckhart Tolle. I've found it to be a good primer for beginning to experience things as they are, beyond the abstraction of the mind/ego.

[AnthroHeart]

I've read the Power of Now, but it's been awhile. Another good one is Conversations With God, and Convoluted Universe.

I'm glad I can taste unity in this density. I hope to have glimpses into that.

Thank you anagogy for clearing some of that up for me, particularly about seventh density.

[Hototo]

I have been attempting that 7th Density perception of reality and while I can occasionally blip in and out of it strongly enough that other selves can "lean" 7th Density towards me and I can hold it (proto-channeling state), its very difficult to do psychologically moreso than energetically.

"if you kill me I'll simply go back into the form maker body, eliminate your attempt to kill me from my world line, incarnate again to a few seconds before you tried to kill me, remove my memory if I want to do so, and continue from where I was."

"you may see yourself as approaching me, seeing a flash of violet and then not seeing me again."

Not sure if this is what is meant but it seems to correlate.

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Meanwhile on a webcomic I love to follow: