To Vaccinate or Not

[Bluebell]

Plenum posted a brilliant Quo'te recently on the vaccine subject  

I think many, if not most, of the Quo'tes are brilliant, but this is one of the few I find to have more distortion, likely colored by the channel's biases. Not because I disagree with it, necessarily, but because it seems to have a more human flavor (in contrast to the Ra Material). This is common with consciously channeled material in general, though less so with Q'uo thanks to Carla's diligence.

it's a very intense topic so channeling on it might be tricky.

[Nicholas]

Holistic doctor here. After years of research I've boiled the entire debate down to two options - do you fear germs or do you fear autoimmune disease?

Personally, I believe all germs can be defeated with supportive therapy (except maybe HIV) but there are few, if any, autoimmune diseases that can be cured.

This is the quote that resonated the most for me on this thread. Our power of belief or faith cannot be underestimated in this issue regardless of the choice made. The placebo effect that is.

An excerpt from Carla's conscious connection to her higher self while blending energies with Quo.

However, this does not speak to your free will. It is well to be logical and do the research involved. It is well indeed to be informed in every way. And yet, as you say, in human affairs there is often no possibility of certainty. While there is no spiritual principle involved in the giving of vaccines, that being in the province of the body complex, it is important that you feel that you are doing the appropriate thing for the child.

This is such sound advise irrespective of which portion of intelligence it came from. Surely?

[Monica]

Holistic doctor here. After years of research I've boiled the entire debate down to two options - do you fear germs or do you fear autoimmune disease?

Personally, I believe all germs can be defeated with supportive therapy (except maybe HIV) but there are few, if any, autoimmune diseases that can be cured.

Guardian, in your experience, why do you suppose that is? ie. why do you think autoimmune diseases are more challenging to heal?

This is the quote that resonated the most for me on this thread. Our power of belief or faith cannot be underestimated in this issue regardless of the choice made. The placebo effect that is.

An excerpt from Carla's conscious connection to her higher self while blending energies with Quo.

However, this does not speak to your free will. It is well to be logical and do the research involved. It is well indeed to be informed in every way. And yet, as you say, in human affairs there is often no possibility of certainty. While there is no spiritual principle involved in the giving of vaccines, that being in the province of the body complex, it is important that you feel that you are doing the appropriate thing for the child.

This is such sound advise irrespective of which portion of intelligence it came from. Surely?

I don't disagree with the bold part, and don't disagree with the Qu'ote overall. As I recall, my main issue with that particular Qu'ote was that it referred to vaccination as a 'healing' modality. Even with a lot of wiggle room, vaccines don't heal. They don't even come close to healing. Not even mainstream pro-vax doctors would ever say they heal. At best, all they can hope to do is stimulate the immune system in response to toxins, but the vaccine itself is the source of the toxins! By definition, that isn't healing. To say that it's a healing modality would be like saying cutting one's finger is a healing modality since cutting one's finger stimulates the body's immune response. It is cases like this, where there is a poor choice of words, that show the human element in conscious channeling.

But yes, the gist of the Qu'ote is sound, though rather weak, in my opinion. There was an opportunity to say much more.

Certainly, intention is important. But, at the same time, nearly all the parents whose children were harmed by vaccines had good intentions. They truly thought they were doing the right thing for their children. Most probably never even questioned it. There was a time when I fiercely defended vaccines and even thought non-vaxxers were guilty of child abuse!

So clearly, most parents who vaccinate their children truly do believe they are doing 'the appropriate thing for the child' yet that didn't stop the poisons in the vaccines from harming their child!

Why didn't the placebo effect work for them? Why does the placebo effect work sometimes but not other times? Why are scientists so accepting of the placebo effect (healing from belief only), yet dismiss vibrational medicine?

Actually, I do have another issue with that Qu'ote. Knowing that the human body is comprised of 90% microbes, and knowing what we know about the spiritual aspects of microbes, I don't see how it could be said that there's 'no spiritual principle' involved in the act of injecting poisons into the body complex of another entity without their permission.

That's not even getting into the discussion of what exactly is being injected, on an energetic level, and how people are being largely, albeit unwittingly, influenced or even controlled by STS entities through the use of microbes, viruses, toxic chemicals, etc.

I subscribe to the philosophy that the body complex is the Temple of the Soul. In this regard, there are most definitely spiritual principles at work here.

[Monica]

No, it's misleading to list ingredients and say look at all the toxins w/o considering how much of each substance is in a vaccine, and what we know can happen in humans at that amount.

We know what can happen at that amount when ingested. That isn't the same as being injected.

We don't know what can happen when there is a cocktail of dozens of toxins being injected at the same time, every few months, over many years. No study has ever been done on the long-term effects of so many vaccines.

Very clever fear tactic.

That would only be true if the people talking about vaccine ingredients were motivated by the desire to trigger fear in others.

Maybe animals are more important than infants, under-vaccinated mothers to be, immunocompromised etc. Actually, debating in this manner is absurd, right?

??

...

[Bluebell]

Why didn't the placebo effect work for them? Why does the placebo effect work sometimes but not other times? Why are scientists so accepting of the placebo effect (healing from belief only), yet dismiss vibrational medicine?

placebo by proxy???????? hahaha! did Q'uo actually say that?

hahaha.

but seriously... maybe it didn't work because placebo by proxy is a load of bullcrap. hahaha. otherwise those well-meaning religious parents that try to exorcise their autistic kids would succeed too lol.

[Monica]

placebo by proxy???????? hahaha! did Q'uo actually say that?

hahaha.

but seriously... maybe it didn't work because placebo by proxy is a load of bullcrap. hahaha. otherwise those well-meaning religious parents that try to exorcise their autistic kids would succeed too lol.

Exactly!!! Yet 'skeptical/scientific' people have actually told me that the babies who got well from the water, or from homeopathy, or other natural methods, did so by placebo...placebo by proxy! They were more willing to believe in placebo by proxy than in alternative healing methods!

[Bluebell]

how is that even scientific? parents can't mindcontrol their kids' cells can they? isn't every being responsible for their own cells? for a placebo to work the cell owner needs to understand something beyond peekaboo lol.

[outerheaven]

No, it's misleading to list ingredients and say look at all the toxins w/o considering how much of each substance is in a vaccine, and what we know can happen in humans at that amount.

We know what can happen at that amount when ingested. That isn't the same as being injected.

We don't know what can happen when there is a cocktail of dozens of toxins being injected at the same time, every few months, over many years. No study has ever been done on the long-term effects of so many vaccines.

What's more, wasn't this actually discussed in detail? I.e. the levels of aluminum present in a vaccine compared with the levels of aluminum considered safe for a human at various weights? Or am I misundestanding something here?

[ree]

Injury rate for MMRV is fewer than 4 per million. Of the cases brought to court very few actually made direct causal link between vaccines (or ingredients of) and injury/illness. Majority are "possible" or "likely" without any sort of correlative or causality. That could change with advancement in medical science. You can't reduce vaccine ingredients in it by themselves. If you include toxins and environmental toxins +  individual factors like health status etc, the picture is more complex (confounders). The reason why scientific and quasi-scientific studies are often flawed is due to confounders and misinterpretation of data & or faulty conclusions that gets hyped as some truth in the media. Same thing with conspiracy theorists and just about everyone on earth lol. 

[Shemaya]

I think the science is flawed because of the intention behind it.  If the science is in service to truth, and the scientist is competent, it should be good science generally speaking.

If the the science is in service to an agenda ( which much of it is, especially in medicine) then it is bunk at it's core, and I personally don't trust much of it.  Especially the more I understand the truth about health, our bodies, and the history of our current healthcare paradigm.

My basic question and concern is regarding mandated and forced vaccines.  I would agree that vaccination to prevent whooping cough was helpful, I disagree that vaccination against HPV to prevent cancer ( Gardisil) is any way close to being necessary. 

Parents should have the choice, there are just to many adverse events to ignore. It is much different than rules of the road, our choice and freedom about how we care for our bodies and the health of our children.  

[Monica]

how is that even scientific?

It isn't.

parents can't mindcontrol their kids' cells can they?

No. That's what makes it so absurd.

isn't every being responsible for their own cells? for a placebo to work the cell owner needs to understand something beyond peekaboo lol.

Right. Even then, no one knows why placebo works sometimes but not other times. Scientists don't even acknowledge the power of the mind at all, other than placebo. With placebo, they've got no choice because it has been proven to exist. They still don't understand it though.

What I find amusing is when they scoff at vibrational medicine or other natural alternatives, yet are willing to believe that the mind did it rather than the natural medicine. In other words, they're more willing to believe that nothing caused the healing, than be open to something causing the healing. Add to that, nothing in someone else (placebo by proxy)!!! That's very funny.  

[Minyatur]

People should have faith in themselves rather than faith in something external creating the placebo, same effect.

[Monica]

In recent news, we’ve seen the mysterious deaths disappearances of numerous alternative and holistic physicians and a recent video may explain why.

According to the video researcher, GcMAF is a naturally occurring process in the human body. It starts off as a Gc protein. The Gc protein in an absolutely healthy human being will create its own, natural Gc Macrophage Activating Factor (GcMAF) to help protect the human immune system.

What is being found by these doctors is that something is being introduced into the human body that is called Nagalase. This Nagalase protein is this:

Nagalase is a protein made by all cancer cells and viruses (HIV, hepatitis B, hepatitis C, influenza, herpes, Epstein-Barr virus, and others).

Nagalase causes immunodeficiency. Nagalase blocks production of GcMAF, thus preventing the immune system from doing its job.

There is something that is being introduced into the human body that is causing this Nagalase to block the naturally occurring production of GcMAF.

Nagalase precision

Like a stealth bomber, the Nagalase enzyme synthesized in and released from a cancer cell or a virus particle pinpoints the GcMAF production facilities on the surface of your T and B lymphocytes and then wipes them out with an incredibly precise bomb. How precise? Let me put it this way: Nagalase locates and attacks one specific two-electron bond located at, and only at, the 420th amino acid position on a huge protein molecule (DBP), one of tens of thousands of proteins, each containing millions of electrons. This is like selectively taking out a park bench in a major city from six thousand miles away. More astonishing, if that is possible, Nagalase never misses its target. There is no collateral damage.

What Dr. Bradstreet found, considering that this Nagalase blocks the naturally occurring GcMAF production in the human body, he found that with autistic children, that they had a highly elevated protein count of Nagalase. Then what he determined, and what many of these other alternative medical doctors were determining was, the Nagalse is surely causing the autism.

So then they were starting to wonder, “If this is happening and it’s occurring right at the very beginning of autism, when autism is occurring, then it has to be being introduced into the human body at the time, or just before the autism is occurring in the human body which appears to be at a state of infancy, not at birth. What does that tell you? That’s right, the Nagalase inhibitor that this GcmAF protein blocker is being introduced into the human body DURING vaccination

You are intentionally having your immune system compromised with a vaccination and some children are automatically coming up with autism, depending on their blood make-up, are acquiring autism.

Read the rest here:

http://www.bodymindsoulspirit.com/holist...vanishing/

[Monica]

In summary: 1) due to the properties of modern vaccines, non-vaccinated individuals pose no greater risk of transmission of polio, diphtheria, pertussis, and numerous non-type b H. influenzae strains than vaccinated individuals do, non-vaccinated individuals pose virtually no danger of transmission of hepatitis B in a school setting, and tetanus is not transmissible at all; 2) there is a significantly elevated risk of emergency room visits after childhood vaccination appointments attesting that vaccination is not risk-free; 3) outbreaks of measles cannot be entirely prevented even if we had nearly perfect vaccination compliance; and 4) an effective method of preventing measles and other viral diseases in vaccine-ineligible infants and the immunocompromised, immunoglobulin, is available for those who may be exposed to these diseases.

Taken together, these four facts make it clear that discrimination in a public school setting against children who are not vaccinated for reasons of conscience is completely unwarranted as the vaccine status of conscientious objectors poses no undue public health risk.

Sincerely Yours,

~ Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD

Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD, is the author of the book Vaccine Illusion. She has studied immunology in some of the world’s most prestigious medical institutions. She earned her PhD in Immunology at the Rockefeller University in New York and did postdoctoral training at Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA and Stanford University in California.

Dr. Obukhanych offers online classes for those who want to gain deeper understanding of how the immune system works and whether the immunologic benefits of vaccines are worth the risks: Natural Immunity Fundamentals.

Harvard Trained Immunologist Demolishes California Legislation That Terminates Vaccine Exemptions

[indolering]

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/09/the-...video.html

[rva_jeremy]

I follow and enjoy a page called "I Fucking Love Science". Their worldview tends to be materialistic in terms of seeing only the material realm as real. (As far as I know.)

But they feel genuine and honest with no hidden agenda but only desire to share a love of all things science.

Its author put together this article about the anti-vaccination movement. Replete with many helpful links for anyone interested in researching this question for themselves:

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-med...being-lied

I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with the practice of vaccination.  But I do think we live in a system where there is insufficient transparency with respect to what we put in our bodies.  Most of the best anti-vax arguments I've read are from people who distrust the pharma industry, not medicine or vaccines per se.  So a lot of this pro-vax / anti-vax stuff is almost engineered to sidestep the real point of contention, which is the secretive, profit-driven pharmaceutical corporate complex. 

If vaccination proponents really cared about winning over the doubters, wouldn't they open source all this stuff, so anybody could manufacture it and know that only the right ingredients are in it?  There's no reason we need such centralized control of something so needed, except that there's profit and control in it.

Ok, gonna go meditate on this third chakra blockage I feel.  

[Monica]

Most of the best anti-vax arguments I've read are from people who distrust the pharma industry, not medicine or vaccines per se.

I get your greater point, but I'd have to disagree with this part. Parents who already distrust the pharma industry wouldn't get their children vaccinated in the first place.

It's the parents who DO trust the pharma industry who vaccinate their children! Then, when their normal, healthy child suffers an adverse reaction, THEN they became anti-vaxers.

(Or, if they know someone who did.)

...

[Kaaron]

They're forcing vaccines on Iraqi children.
Do the math.

[indolering]

They're forcing vaccines on children everywhere with an emphasis on Africa.  Bill Gates is leading the charge.  These jabs are obviously part of the lethal agenda to debilitate the masses, rendering them ripe for takeover.  Big Pharma, Monsanto, Coke, Nestle's, Big Oil, corrupt Gov't, they're all in bed together - oh they love their secret societies, with their oaths to Lucifer and various demonic/alien creeps from space.  Land of the Fee, Home of the Slave....

A young friend of mine is having his first child on Halloween.  I said, you're having him at home, aren't you?  Oh no, we believe in all the modern stuff.  Well, what about the jabs, you're not going to subject your newborn to a cocktail of poisons, are you?  Well...  Oh, Jesus!  He doesn't know the first thing about vaccinations!  It's late in the game, dude, go to your computer and pull up vaccine truth.  I didn't know what else to say....

My friend isn't stupid - but in this age where we're lied to about virtually everything, he hasn't done the most elementary research - he seems oblivious to the malignant nature of gov't and the multinationals.  I can only pray his child will be spared.  I'll be talking to him again but the prognosis is bleak.  

One more thing: one's home, where one can relax and control the environment completely, is the natural place for birth to occur.  Hospitals are sterile, impersonal and prone to many sources of extreme negativity - why would anyone subject himself to that?  Unfortunately, most people don't even consider options to hospital birth.  

[Monica]

Doctor Says Vaccine Deadlier Than Swine Flu & Won't Give it to His Kids

There ya go. Not only would he Not give it to his kids, but he pretty much ended the autism debate right then and there. And this was on FOX News!

WHOA 25,000 times the level of mercury found to be toxic, in a single dose!!! Holy crap that's waaaay worse than I thought! Watch it to the end and see for yourself!

...

[Bourbon Betty]

I trust there have been suggestions better than mine, but I'll answer with what I can to help;

1. Spread out vaccination dates.
2. If possible prefer not puncturing skin.
3. If possible build up immunity in stages of exposure to least harmful first.
4. If in doubt, trust your instincts.
5. Its your baby, no one else's, even if they make you sit in a corner and cry about it.
6. If worst and most common complication is worst than the most common symptom for the after effects of the thing you're vaccinating for, prefer not to vaccinate. (If the worst thing that can happen is someone having sex behind your back and the vaccination complications is eternal sleep disorder, I'd stay away from that vaccination.)
7. Dried up cow urine works.
8. Number 7 is a reference to too much cleanliness killing you.

[Monica]

What the News Isn’t Saying About Vaccine-Autism Studies

...

[Monica]

Yes... From the peer-reviewed medical literature...that shows how vaccines can and do cause autism and a host of other chronic, systemic illnesses.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/220807175/86-R...utism-Link

...