Out of body experience advice

[Lavazza]

Hey gang,

Lately I've been pondering out of body experiences lately. I just listened to an interview with William Buhlman (http://astralinfo.org/) at the 'Theater of the Mind' podcast (http://www.theatreofthemind.com/podcasts...odcast=151). I find this very interesting to say the least. So much so that I am inclined to attempt my own OBE at some point, or at the very least try to become more adept at lucid dreaming.

Then I remembered the part of the Ra story (Law of One book series) where Ra warns the group about the possibility of Carla being duped in to entering negative time space by their negative 5th density companion:

69.1 Questioner: A question which I didn’t get to ask at the previous session and which I will be forced to ask at this time is, is the trance state the only state in which a mind/body/spirit positive entity may be lured by a negative entity or adept to negative time/space configuration?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a mis-perceived concept. The mind/body/spirit complex which freely leaves the third-density physical complex is vulnerable when the appropriate protection is not at hand. You may perceive carefully that very few entities which choose to leave their physical complexes are doing work of such a nature as to attract the polarized attention of negatively oriented entities. The danger to most in trance state, as you term the physical complex being left, is the touching of the physical complex in such a manner as to attract the mind/body/spirit complex back thereunto or to damage the means by which that which you call ectoplasm is being recalled.

So I am gathering that usually there is no real danger in going out of body, but that in this particular circumstance at L/L Research, where great positive polarity work was being done and interactions with a highly positively polarized SMC were taking place, there was. This seems to be supported:

69.3 Questioner: Why is this trance state, as we call it, different? Why are there not entities available in this particular state?

Ra: I am Ra. The uniqueness of this situation is not the lack of friends, for this, as all entities, has its guides or angelic presences and, due to polarization, teachers and friends also. The unique characteristic of the workings which the social memory complex Ra and your group have begun is the intent to serve others with the highest attempt at near purity which we as comrades may achieve.

This has alerted a much more determined friend of negative polarity which is interested in removing this particular opportunity.

and

69.15 Secondly, that which we and you do in workings such as this carries a magical charge, if you would use this much misunderstood term, perhaps we may say a metaphysical power. Those who do work of power are available for communication to and from entities of roughly similar power. It is fortunate that the Orion entity does not have the native power of this group. However, it is quite disciplined whereas this group lacks the finesse equivalent to its power. Each is working in consciousness but the group has not begun a work as a group. The individual work is helpful for the group is mutually an aid, one to another.

I guess this leaves me with some questions about the nature of being out of body, and indeed other altered states of consciousness. It sounds like the trance state or out of body state is unique in the sense that you could royally mess things up (as I would view circumstances) if you for some reason decided to follow a negative entity to negative time/space, where upon your physical body would die and your consciousness would reincarnate in to negative space/time.

Should an individual who is of high positive polarity be concerned to any degree of this happening, should he choose to have his own OBE? Or is it just limited to those who happen to be channeling breakthrough spiritual information for the benefit of millions of people in a veiled world?

I guess I'm also still confused about why protection from friends, guides and so forth are not available to aid the out of body entity. I've read all of the Law of One books but it still doesn't make sense to me. There is this:

69.14 Questioner: I am assuming that this displacement must be a function of his free will in some way. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is absolutely correct.

69.15 Questioner: This is a point that I find quite confusing to me.

It is the function of the free will of the positively oriented entity to move into the negatively polarized time/space. However, it is also a function of his lack of understanding of what he is doing. I am sure that if the entity had full understanding of what he was doing he would not do it. It is a function of his negatively polarized other-self creating a situation where he is lured to that configuration. What is the principle with respect to the first distortion that allows this to occur since we have two portions of the Creator, each of equal value or of equal potential, but oppositely polarized and we have this situation resulting. Could you tell me the philosophical principle behind this particular act?

Ra: I am Ra. There are two important points in this regard. Firstly, we may note the situation wherein an entity gets a road-map which is poorly marked and in fact is quite incorrect. The entity sets out to its destination. It wishes only to reach the point of destination but, becoming confused by the faulty authority and not knowing the territory through which it drives, it becomes hopelessly lost.

Free will does not mean that there will be no circumstances when calculations will be awry. This is so in all aspects of the life experience. Although there are no mistakes, there are surprises.

Indeed, I agree with this level of reasoning. However........ Where the heck is the higher self in all this, where is the guide? A guide really isn't owned up to it's job if it isn't being a guide, especially under such circumstances where negative entities are offering their own version of guidance. Although it shouldn't be necessary to do, why couldn't one make a conscious declaration of asking for assistance from guides prior to going in to trance / OB? I think that would satisfy all requirements of freewill, no? Although the situation whereby an entity becomes quagmired in the wrong polarity time/space may well be extremely rare, the fact that it can happen at all is still a source of unending mystery to me.

Lastly, why can this not happen in dream states, drug induced states or any other mental state where one may peek behind the veil? If our reality is illusory as I have heard many times from L/L contacts, any altered state of consciousness could be considered an out of body experience since in actuality, there is no body to be outside of.

thanks for reading, and pondering,

Lavazza

[ayadew]

In all serious OBE instructions I've read the person is carefully instructed to create a field of light where only positive energy is permitted. I've had 2 OBE experiences, the first was one of the most terrifying experiences in my life. I got sucked into a black hole of endless, downward spiraling of despair. That was an extremely negative time/space. I was afraid for months after that! Great job fellow STS entities
The other one was much later, when I had learned to protect myself and ask angels/guides for help etc. It didn't happen anything in particular, you float around outside your body a bit in time/space. It's hard to recall what time/space is, because once you get back to space/time it just seems like another dream.

A positively polarized entity which has a strong faith in that he is protected should attempt OBE's I think. You attract that which you wish. Giving into fear attracts more fear. Giving into love attracts more love. Knowing that you are loved and protected can only give a positive experience!

[Peregrinus]

In the sense of trance channeling in the manner in which L/L was doing, there was grave danger. This was because Carla's spirit was removed from her body.

When conducting OBO's, you are still connected to your body, so this danger is not present.

OBO's are safe.

With that being said, it is only worthy of the 5th density sts entities great effort to target those entities which are of a higher vibration, for these offer the greatest "bounty". A lesser vibration offers little.

Thus, if you have a higher vibration, have you already attracted an entity or entities? If so, this may yet leave questions. If you do not know, I would suggest you explore inwardly prior to exploring outwardly.

[ayadew]

When I received the powerful negative influence there was very little 'higher' vibration in me. Preemptive strike perhaps? Very interesting experience for me nontheless.

[Peregrinus]

When I received the powerful negative influence there was very little 'higher' vibration in me. Preemptive strike perhaps? Very interesting experience for me nontheless.

You had a higher vibration. You just didn't know it yet.

[Brittany]

Ra states that not all OBE’s are the same. Basically, if I’m reading correctly, the point where the risk can occur is when you purposefully leave your body (presumably as an act of service, a.k.a. channeling, etc.). This means you have utilized your free will in the experience, and will be held responsible for any decisions you make while in this state. Of course, negative entities will do everything they can in order to disguise their motives. They could easily fool you into following them and you could think you were doing the right thing, but basically you put yourself up for that risk when you willingly abandoned the body.

In the physical world, someone could walk up to you and say that there was a child trapped in a burning building, so you rush into the building to save the child. Only, in fact, this was a lie and there was no child. The fact that you were deceived does not exclude you from the consequences of running into a burning building…possibly getting burned, suffocating, what have you.

I think the main lesson here would be that if you make the willful choice to leave your body outside of the natural course of bodily function (dreaming, etc.) you should use extreme discretion in what you allow yourself to be swayed by. This is where it becomes very important to challenge any entities you meet. You have the right to turn anyone away, even if they seem like one of the good guys. If you are naïve and let yourself get tricked, it works the same way it does in the real world. You can get burned.

I can not be 100% sure, but I think it an OBE just happens sporadically, you would not have to worry about this happening so much because you did not choose to leave your body…my experience with OBEs is very limited so I can’t be entirely sure.

[Peregrinus]

From Q'uo, 2009, 09 22

J: Could you give me advice on out-of-body experiences and how to have one, and are they safe?

Q'uo: We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query, my brother. For each entity, the answer to the question of, “Are out-of-body experiences safe,” is different. Indeed, for one entity in incarnation the answer would be variable. To be conservative, we would respond by saying that the moving out of body is safe only when it is a learned experience and that learning takes place in a group wherein there are senior entities who are experienced at collaboration with those who are travelling out-of-body and who are aware of ways to surround such activities with protection.

It may be said that we are conservative when offering this opinion, for in many cases there is an innocence to moving out of the body. Yet in some cases, that innocence can be rudely interrupted, for it is a crowded universe, my brother, and when one is seeking the light with all of one’s heart and soul and mind and strength, one stands close to the light. And when one stands close to the light because of one’s intention to serve and seek the light, that light causes the entity to cast a shadow that is seen by service-to-self entities who are fond of distracting and even destroying entities who are out of body.

It is as though one were taking a walk in a neighborhood that was high in crime and violence, or in a war zone. Perhaps you should be able to move into the farthest reaches that you wish and come home to your body without incident. However, it is also possible that you might be set upon and then you should find it difficult to move back into your physical body. Consequently, we would suggest that you pursue this interest by contacting a trusted source of knowledge and experience, such as the Monroe Institute. We take this information from this instrument’s memory.

Again, we feel that such interests should be pursued with that organic feeling of resonance. If this is an activity that is resonant for you then we encourage you to follow it, but not by yourself.

[Lavazza]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. And especially to Peregrinus for digging up that highly relevant "Quo"te. I think perhaps I will play the conservative, at least for now, and put the idea of OBEs on hold.

Cheers!

[Peregrinus]

No need to thank me sister. Thank Carla, Jim, and Q'uo. They did the hard work. I simply passed it on.

[Lavazza]

Haha! Well, I'm in the form of a brother, at least this time around our Earthly block.

[Peregrinus]

My apologies brother. The veil of forum names can be deceiving...

[Lavazza]

I found it quite humorous Maybe we can follow this example to find the humor in our larger third density veil as well!

[irpsit]

I have also very little OBE experience.
I think, but this is my humble oppinion, we should refrain of trying to have OBEs.
If they happen during a nap, then great. Otherwise, it can mean a naive adventure.
Better to focus on that positive vibrating state prior while meditating/sleeping.

[ayadew]

( http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.ph...37#pid9937 )

Q'uo mentioned in the Wanderer's Handbook (and thus obviously in some transcript):

In most cases of unintended exit of the physical vehicle, the finer bodies carrying the consciousness are within the same illusion, or, depending on the vibratory patterns of the individual, there may be the precise location which one enjoys in the third density but the out-of-body experience may be in fourth density. This still appears to the consciousness senses as a normal, solid, seemingly third-density illusion, and though the electrical nature of energies between people is far more apparent, nonetheless the work which might be done in this out-of-body environment is no more or less effectual in creating new polarity than experiences within the third density physical vehicle.

Latwii

The experience of which you speak is one which contains elements of what you have described as an out-of-body experience, yet there are many such experiences that fall under this general heading. The salient feature of such an experience is not necessarily whether it occurred, either in or out of this or that body, yet is the vividness of the experience, and its impact upon your perception. Such experiences have many purposes, as many as there are entities who have such experiences. In general we may suggest that this experience occurred at a time which you were ripe for it to occur in that you were seeking the nature in a deeper sense of your own being and of the illusion which you inhabit. When an entity experiences certain difficulties within an illusion, it is often helpful for that entity to touch home base, shall we say, and be re-energized by the truer nature of that reality, and that that energizing might strengthen those channels from the conscious to the unconscious mind and allow further experience.

---

I have a frequent increase in cross-density (or something like that which Q'uo mentions) experience. I lie down occasionally when I feel lazy, and there's a tug in my mind to let go of the body. It is unintended. If I relax even more I will float away to unconsciousness in this 3D brain, and some time after I will find myself awake; my head being filled with dizzy thoughts and obscureness. It's as if I've been somewhere else, done a damn lot of thinking and experiencing, and then coming back here. It is a truly mentally taxing experience, and I do not like it because of that.
There is no clarity, only confusion. It puzzles me.

[Cyclops]

I've experienced a full out of body experience 2 days ago at Jan 26 2010 at 12:50AM roughly, it lasted untill 1:15AM.

The exit was not known to me as it happened instantly in meditation. However the re-entry was very traumatic pulling and squeezing and electrocuting.

In the out of body state I was sitting a few feet away from my 3D head behind a desk and a computer, room was dimly lit while in 3D it was dark.

Now I remember slightly that there were feelings of battle in the beginning but they were vague, after which an entity which was behind me was conversing to me, I did not have the mind to challenge or turn around to look at him.

I only asked how to graduate early, and about early graduation and he said behind me with a somewhat cold deep voice (somewhat) "So you want to graduate early? do this..." I followed all instructions and the last one was the one where I felt the great electrifying energy.. at one point I felt I was going to be ripped out of the out of body experience and into a higher density then 4D or something. But since I followed his instructions without question he might of been pulling some trickery.

The only way I controlled the massive energy which was going to rip me out was by saying "We are all one being" and then I was squeezed and moved extremely fast from the OBE chair behind the desk and computer through the desk and from under my bed I entered my head back in 3D where I still felt the massive energy for 5-10 seconds, it went down from the head where it was strongest down through the legs.

Rougly 25 minutes passed through this experience in 3D but In the OBE it felt a much longer time, this was physically feeling and not vague like a dream.

[Lavazza]

I've experienced a full out of body experience 2 days ago at Jan 26 2010 at 12:50AM roughly, it lasted untill 1:15AM.

Fascinating... What do you conclude from this experience?

[ayadew]

Strange experience Cyclops! Rather profound I'd figure. You were mentally in a higher density state, that's for sure. It's a pity the wisdom one experience there cannot be processed and shared with the 3D mind.

[Cyclops]

I can conclude that I figured out how to make this happen, it's all about separating the red-violet shield which I was actually doing in my visualizations.

Now I am pretty scared to attempt this again and I did not try it again.. I've been contemplating this.



1) Remember the vague feelings of battle I mentioned, well the sessions say that throughout the day there are 2 heights of energies where the battles in the inner planes are strongest, and one point where they are weakest and quiet I think.

I don't know why they battle in the inner planes but entering them through OBE might be extremely dangerous. Even more since I followed the entity that was over my shoulder with NO questions asked.

2)What I want you guys to help me with before I do this again is how do you prepare for positivity only when doing OBE, I don't want to meet a negative entity, Q'uo says there are TONS of them in the inner planes.

I wish to some how to intent that all the positive entities that surround me while I go about my 3D life follow me through OBE and form kind of a walking army as we go together so that I may learn and study safely.

Any thoughts on this?

[Peregrinus]

I have one single thought. Don't.

See this post

[Cyclops]

Normally maybe, but was never one to shy away because of risks. There's a great respect which I hold for the incarnation itself because that thought was the one that resonated most with me or shaping of jagged edges and smoothing them out as the sessions would say in refinery, as if you would you jump into the realm of the greatest confusion in order to find out who you are. If we all make great choices by faith alone during this incarnation then wouldn't this be a choice to explore by faith alone to be of service and seek the depths of which one may find during OBE? faith in intent, faith in the path that is (my choice). With each hour I can't stop thinking about this, with each each passing hour I feel the need and gather more and more bravery to do this again.

Also a few thoughts on this, since this happened I found that there is nothing that is impossible. I'm thinking about meditating and trying to visualize the process to enter in contact with intelligent infinity besides entering the inner planes.

If I'm correct or not please tell me about this next point but it appears to me that it was said one is capable of crystallizing himself instantly through intent, or a short amount of time through emotionalized visualizations in meditation.

[Peregrinus]

What I fail to understand is why you ask questions you know the answers to...

I would skydive without a parachute before I would attempt to do OOBEs without full understanding and guidance. One way, the result would surely be death. The other, possibly worse...

---->>> The Monroe Institute <<<----

[Cyclops]

I don't know but at the moment by you caring, I want to seek that understanding and guidance.

Also this might of been something magical but.

Did you know that when I was responding to a comment you made in the "Politics thread" my searching for that story of which I posted lead me to this??

"My friends, tonight we would share with you a small story concerning a lamb which had strayed from the flock, from its mother, from the shepherd whose efforts to ensure the lamb’s safety within the flock were circumvented by the lamb’s curiosity. You see, my friends, the lamb, realizing that among the flock there was simply retracing the steps already covered by those around it, chose to wander further and further toward the edge of the flock, seeking experience beyond what could be and often was narrated by its elders.

Eventually, as the lamb progressed toward the edge of the flock, the lamb began to notice that those around seemed to be somewhat different than those at the core. They were sheep, it was true, but they were of a more unencumbered nature. Their seeking for the close, shoulder to shoulder relationship that sheep seem to enjoy was less prevalent, and often one would stop, snatch a bite, look about a moment and have to gallop to regain the safety of the flock. Indeed, those at the perimeter were a different breed of sheep.

But the lamb was not satisfied with a mere change of scenery, so to speak, and upon reaching the edge of the flock, chose to continue beyond the flock, beyond the shepherd, beyond all of that which was known and familiar. Gradually, the sound of the flock diminished, and the lamb was alone, having abandoned its past. Perhaps at this point, one would assume that the lamb should be afraid, for it’s well known that the Earth contains those which would prey upon one another or upon the innocent, upon those which would try and extend themselves beyond the edge of the flock. Yet the lamb, possessing the wise naiveté of the fool, was not troubled, for the lamb simply sought to know.

My friends, at this point, in your minds we find the question concerning the eventual conclusion of our story. We wonder what happened to the lamb. My friends, the lamb is still wandering further and further from the crowded security it left behind where the decisions are made by caretakers. My friends, the lambs within your souls seek only to learn, and it is that craving for knowledge, for new experience with which to grow, that has brought you here this night. There is a meekness in knowledge, my friends, for an early and constant lesson upon that path is the awareness that one’s knowledge is sorely lacking. The path extends ever onward to that knowledge that is without end.

One might ask, “To what purpose do we wander that path if there is no reward at the end, no pot of gold at the terminus of our rainbow. Why should we leave the flock? Is it not safer within the confinement of the crowd? Are we not protected from those that would prey upon us?” My friends, you are wanderers of the path, and to do other than that would betray your real nature. Accept this in yourselves and be not afraid, for though the predators exist, so also does that force within your world that knows of each bird in flight, of each tree desiring to bloom, of each flower striving through the soil toward the sun." by Hatonn

This resonated greatly with the things I've been thinking about concerning these matters... without your post in the other thread I would of never found this..

[Peregrinus]

Seeking guidance is not fear my brother, but respect. Hatonn says "so also does that force within your world" because here on earth in incarnation we have nothing to fear. In the astral planes is a different story.

Because you were going to make your own choice anyway, I had prepared this below just in case:

Ok then, go and have fun , but... if your soul gets trapped off in 4D sts cold dark territory and even your higher self won't go and visit you for a billion years, lets meet up in about 3.2 billion years when you flip back to sto in the 6th and you can tell me all about how it was worth it, ok?

[Cyclops]

Lol knowing me since I'm stubborn I would take a bit more time then that trying to smash the un-smashable wall that would progress a negative entity past mid 6th density.

[Peregrinus]

I'm going to stick with the harmonious sto route. Ra got to where they are in 2.3 billion years after the 3rd, and I don't think anyone on Venus ever had an argument... Only the One Creator knows how long sts spend getting to the 6th. I just know being in bliss for 2.3 billion years sounds better than living in a hell of self serving Rockefellers and Rothschilds for a substantially longer period of time than that... stubborn or not, think about counting to 2.3 billion, one number, one day at a time... and then decide if you are stubborn enough to take that kind of risk...

[Lavazza]

It may be worth noting that although I'm putting the OBE experience possibility aside for now, I am still completely undecided as to weather there is actually any danger. There are, have been, and will be thousands of people who experience some form of OBE every year. Honestly, I've only heard of any remote chance of danger from OBEs from this group (L/L Research). Could it be that if one expects that there is danger, there will be? And if one is unaware of or unwilling to accept that there could be any danger, there won't be?

I admit, I am an idealist... I strive for the position of personal empowerment. But I do not consider myself too un-objective on this. That we should be scared of attempting to have extremely personal, subjective, meaningful and enlightening experiences just because a group says there is danger seems to be a place of dis-empowerment. Fear being the winning card. Don't get me wrong- I love and have a lot of respect for everyone here at L/L! But I hasten to add that there may be another way to look at all of this.

That was my main purpose for this thread- to try and get to the bottom of the "danger", or at least closer to the bottom. From an intuitive point of view, it just seems like something we should have the right to do, and do safely. Recall that we are spiritual beings having a human experience, not vicaversa. We've been dis-incarnate many times. I'd expect that an OBE should be no biggie, and that we could not possibly come to "harm". Yet due to my large respect for the information in The Law of One, I investigate further.

[Peregrinus]

My apology. I didn't think my suggestions were fear based, any so much as you explaining to a child to look both ways before they cross the street is fear based. It is concern on my part, and respect for what could happen on the part of the person crossing the street. I simply suggest learning about how to cross the astral plane street safely. Q'uo recommended the Monroe Institute. I'm sure there are others that have adequate knowledge and experience as well.

I'd like to say now that the above recommendations are only my and Q'uo's opinions. Should what we have said not resonate with you, then feel free to go with what does.

[Cyclops]

Could it be that if one expects that there is danger, there will be? And if one is unaware of or unwilling to accept that there could be any danger, there won't be?

"Those not truly sincerely requesting this energy may yet feel it if the entities are not well-trained in psychic defense. Those not desirous of experiencing these sensations and activations and changes even upon the subconscious level will not experience anything due to their abilities at defense and armoring against change." By Ra

This was spoken on feelings of energy during meditation, I think this goes side to side with that we're discussing about.

If you come to a single thought before going OBE, for example that you want ONLY to visit a positive entity and ask him positive questions while obe then with this single mindedness it would go just as it goes (I think).

Going into OBE which no quest, or a general quest to seek whatever you may find might have you tricked and steered in all kinds of directions due to you being actually OPEN to change.

This only happens I believe when it's set before OBE by the will.

Without setting he will you are allowed to go freely finding whatever since you didn't ask for it, and didn't ask to even bring back whatever. It's confusing to me.

Thoughts?

[Lavazza]

My apology. I didn't think my suggestions were fear based, any so much as you explaining to a child to look both ways before they cross the street is fear based.

No apology needed my friend. I was aiming my comments more towards the seemingly "fear" orientation of the conversation, not so much anyone in particular. Indeed, I should back up and say that caution is always wise, and looking both ways before crossing a street, especially a street that has never been crossed before, is of course a smart thing to do.

[ayadew]

Well, I must say that OBEs is quite a learning experience, both the process itself and it's effects. The extremely negative experience of mine has shaped my life in some form and got me a lesson I am still resolving. If you feel a strong desire to explore OBEs then that is part of what all your selves want to experience in this density.

You do not necessarily have to look at OBEs as a possibly negative experience, but as a wild card, like psychedelic drugs. You experiment with it and it may yield any result. Ecstasy to despair, profound insight or waste of time. I seem to have my self tell me "BE HUMAN FOR GODS SAKE" and smack me on the head for trying to escape. So I won't do any more of that in this incarnation I think.
The thing you typically hear about is the negative experience, do people like to share these more than positive? In any case, it is always based upon the individual, and is quite meaningless to talk about as negative or positive. And if anyone we are aware of the polarity of things. You deem something as negative, well, then it of course is, but only for you.
You will have a chance to talk with positive entities, but negative might as well snatch you. Mental protection is a great asset, where you intend to only let through those of positive and helpful vibration. Unless it's a really tricky 5th density negative that talks you in to let go of your protection, then you're fine I suppose. I obviously failed there.

Happy adventuring... and how can it not be an adventure if there's not some danger!

When I began exploring OBEs I quickly came across Monroe Institute. If Q'uo recommends them also then it cannot be a random act that I did. They have some powerful stuff and can act as a template for yourself.
They have the basic parts (written from my perspective here):

Let go of the rational state and calm your mind.
Protect yourself with love and light.
Tune your body to a higher vibratory state by saying OHM repeatedly. It is very powerful, you can physically feel the higher vibration.
Give into faith and trust in the process.
Listen to the vibration in the speakers and float away...