3D/4D as a perception

[Bring4th_Austin]

Isn't it possible that the entity's 3D body's veil is in place, even with the 4D body in activation? I thought the 4D body was just to help with the 4D them appreciate the 4D vibrations.

Also, I had interpreted the passage about the dual bodies incarnating late as a function of free will because they will be bringing completely 4D concepts to this reality, busting established 3D concepts. Is it possible that they vibrate to these concepts without specifically remembering them?

I wonder how many children born post-Ra contact are dual-body.

[unity100]

veil is a 3d phenomenon. 3-4d bodies are designed to be activated for 4d, and are able to 'appreciate' the vibrations of 4d. normally, 3d entity should not be able to see or perceive 4d or higher, for he purposes of 'free will' due to veil.

extent of this 'appreciation' is not defined. however, any level of 'appreciation' of 4d vibrations, will require receiving of these vibrations, and these vibrations will bring their reality together with them.

[zenmaster]

Also, I had interpreted the passage about the dual bodies incarnating late as a function of free will because they will be bringing completely 4D concepts to this reality, busting established 3D concepts.

But they're not bringing 4D concepts - as those concepts have yet to be developed following many lives of 4D learning. They just *now* graduated 4D from other places. They have, perhaps lived only 1, maybe 2 lives in dual-activated form. Before that they were 3D.

What concepts they can bring, however, are their foreign 3D concepts of their lives, culture, science, religion, etc from their other worlds.

[unity100]

it is not a given that any entities incarnating in 3-4d activated bodies have lived in 3-4d activated bodies or 4d bodies before.

[zenmaster]

it is not a given that any entities incarnating in 3-4d activated bodies have lived in 3-4d activated bodies or 4d bodies before.

It's a guess. They come here - and perhaps might die by accident, get re-born.. So the 1 (current) to 2 (re-born) is logical, given the small amount of time available.

[Bring4th_Austin]

veil is a 3d phenomenon. 3-4d bodies are designed to be activated for 4d, and are able to 'appreciate' the vibrations of 4d. normally, 3d entity should not be able to see or perceive 4d or higher, for he purposes of 'free will' due to veil.

extent of this 'appreciation' is not defined. however, any level of 'appreciation' of 4d vibrations, will require receiving of these vibrations, and these vibrations will bring their reality together with them.

Perhaps the veil thins as slowly as our bodies evolve? For example, the dual-activated individuals now are basically identical in this physical illusion to 3D individuals. Once our bodies start evolving to become more aware of 4D, the veil grows thinner and thinner, until full 4D is reached, then the veil is gone.

Also, I had interpreted the passage about the dual bodies incarnating late as a function of free will because they will be bringing completely 4D concepts to this reality, busting established 3D concepts.

But they're not bringing 4D concepts - as those concepts have yet to be developed following many lives of 4D learning. They just *now* graduated 4D from other places. They have, perhaps lived only 1, maybe 2 lives in dual-activated form. Before that they were 3D.

What concepts they can bring, however, are their foreign 3D concepts of their lives, culture, science, religion, etc from their other worlds.

Good point. Either way, the mindset of these harvested individuals is going to have to extremely varied from the current 3D mindsets on Earth. I know at this point I'm stretching, but perhaps it is the extremely different mindset that would breach the free will of the 3D inhabitants.

[3DMonkey]

actually the veil should be thinning already for entities in 3-4d bodies.

Is this an assumption, or is there some Ra or Q'uo material that says this?

these entities are already 3-4d activated. in 4d, there is no veil. moreover, it was stated that the birthing of these entities were this late, in order for them not to affect free will because of their 4d activation.

Can someone point me to the documentation that 4D has no veil?

[Bring4th_Austin]

Can someone point me to the documentation that 4D has no veil?

The fact that the veil is a 3D experience is mentioned a few times, but Ra specifically comments on 4D veiling here (silly enough, talking about orgasm).

87.25 Questioner: Is it meaningful to give this ratio in early fourth density and, if so, would you do that?
Ra: I am Ra. In many ways it is quite meaningless to speak of orgasm of male and female in higher densities as the character and nature of orgasm becomes more and more naturally a function of the mind/body/spirit complex as an unit. It may be said that the veil in fourth density is lifted and the choice has been made. In positive polarities true sharing is almost universal. In negative polarities true blockage so that the conqueror obtains orgasm, the conquered almost never, is almost universal. In each case you may see the function of the sexual portion of experience as being a most efficient means of polarization.

[Confused]

Can someone point me to the documentation that 4D has no veil?

There are multiple indirect references in many places. One such is this (extracted from 21.7) -

The incarnation pattern of the beginning third-density mind/body/spirit complex begins in darkness, for you may think or consider of your density as one of, as you may say, a sleep and a forgetting. This is the only plane of forgetting.

The following however provides a direct telling reference -

87.25 Questioner: Is it meaningful to give this ratio in early fourth density and, if so, would you do that?

Ra: I am Ra. In many ways it is quite meaningless to speak of orgasm of male and female in higher densities as the character and nature of orgasm becomes more and more naturally a function of the mind/body/spirit complex as an unit. It may be said that the veil in fourth density is lifted and the choice has been made. In positive polarities true sharing is almost universal. In negative polarities true blockage so that the conqueror obtains orgasm, the conquered almost never, is almost universal. In each case you may see the function of the sexual portion of experience as being a most efficient means of polarization.

---

The fact that the veil is a 3D experience is mentioned a few times, but Ra specifically comments on 4D veiling here (silly enough, talking about orgasm).

Ah, sorry for replicating your quote from the LOO. I was working on the post while I think you posted the comment. And mine followed immediately. When I just traced my eyes up, I saw that you had picked on the quote.

[zenmaster]

Good point. Either way, the mindset of these harvested individuals is going to have to extremely varied from the current 3D mindsets on Earth. I know at this point I'm stretching, but perhaps it is the extremely different mindset that would breach the free will of the 3D inhabitants.

Could be if the memory is a 'working' or 'procedural' memory, rather than a more intuitive or vague memory, where the latter may involve some learning. If you have a bunch of geniuses introducing new things, concepts, or solving problems, or what have you, I'm not sure that creates a free will violation because what is perceived may still be surrounded in mystery or follow from available premises. The free will is violated when a person gets their opportunity for self-made choice side-tracked by honestly accepting something in a manner that basically does not follow from their current worldview.

[hogey11]

Perhaps the veil thins as slowly as our bodies evolve? For example, the dual-activated individuals now are basically identical in this physical illusion to 3D individuals. Once our bodies start evolving to become more aware of 4D, the veil grows thinner and thinner, until full 4D is reached, then the veil is gone.

This is also supported by the transition period, which Ra says is in place in order to allow ourselves to learn to shield ourselves from 3D vibrations. Once we learn to penetrate the illusion of 3D, we are ready and able to ascend to our 4D bodies/incarnations. The process in which this happens is still unsure...

[unity100]

Perhaps the veil thins as slowly as our bodies evolve? For example, the dual-activated individuals now are basically identical in this physical illusion to 3D individuals. Once our bodies start evolving to become more aware of 4D, the veil grows thinner and thinner, until full 4D is reached, then the veil is gone.

probably since the veil is a 3d phenomenon in time/space, in order for veil to lift, the entity would need to be in 4d vibration/configuration/understanding in mind/spirit in order to be able to make use of the 4d part of 3-4d body.

[drifting pages]

I never resonated so much with a Q Channeling before.

[Monica]

In a very deep and real way, each of you is at the center of a Creation, your creation.

Nassim Haramein has proven this with mathematics and physics.

Their experience overwrites what could be called “objective reality.” Your experience will always overwrite the parts that make up the sum of what you observe.

It's exciting for me to read this, because it confirms Nassim's work, which I stongly resonate with.

[Confused]

Their experience overwrites what could be called “objective reality.” Your experience will always overwrite the parts that make up the sum of what you observe.

I think I should starting reading the Q'uo transcripts as well. These are such powerful empowering statements. And it runs counter to much of my negative view, telling me how much I am creating my own pain.

Thanks for bringing up these, guys.

[Monica]

Those who want to continue in their incarnations with their familys/friends will be able to do so as a collective, while those who wish to flee the 3D illusion will be able to transition into more "electrical bodies" and immerse themselves in the newer 4D environments.

Right. And some might choose to transform their 3D bodies into electrical bodies.

It's already happening.

[Edinburgh]

In a very deep and real way, each of you is at the center of a Creation, your creation.

Nassim Haramein has proven this with mathematics and physics.

Nassim has a great lecture given at Rouge valley on google video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...256390335#), where he ends with the statement you made Monica, suggesting we 'meditate about being at the center of the universe" - really powerful stuff. It's a great way to meditate and develop a more loving, compassionate way of viewing the world.
As Ra says; know yourself, accept yourself, become the creator.

Also going back to an earlier post from hogey11 about the 'cocoon' idea, I want to link here to very famous crop circle (found in Goes, Netherlands on the 8th of August 2009) that was the biggest one done to date (at least 6 baseball stadiums) which showed a huge image of a human (in the exact proportions of Leonardo Davinci's Vitruvian Man) but then overlaid with a butterfly, a clear reference to a cocoon/ metamorphosis.
http://whatisthepyramid.com/tag/crop-circle/
AND, check this out, some of the commentary from the website link; "There are 81 visible circles in the Butterfly. 81 is 9*9, or 3*3*3*3, or 3 raised to the fourth power, or the 3rd dimension to the 4th dimension."

It's all coming together in this great thread!

Yes, we will all die eventually, but maybe we will have a chance to become lightworkers in the real sense and help earth and the people here go forward and make "the choice".

After all, it was Edgar Cayce who mentioned once in his trance state that those who would be here for the earth changes were "lucky to be here at this time". I've always wondered what he meant by that, now it's starting to make sense. I can't believe he would have said that if he see didn't something positive in his vision.

[Ocean]

i guess we're lucky cuz it's exciting.

[Bring4th_Austin]

And some might choose to transform their 3D bodies into electrical bodies.

It's already happening.

What do you mean by this?

[Ocean]

kinda like the moonlanding, which we missed out on. can you imagine how exciting that was? by the time i rolled around it was so old hat i wasn't even told right away.

[Whitefeather]

Nice thread, thank you to each for sharing your different perspectives. Fascinating!

I'd like to add my perspective that the 3D mind is the veil and that, to enter 4D is to get free of the prison of the mind.
And, to get free of the prison of the mind is to enter the heart (the heart dimension, that is) where everything is possible!

Have fun and enjoy life because every instant in life, every thought and every feeling, every experience and every understanding you go through life IS your creation and you will meet your creation as your 4D world. And, that applies for each one of us.

Also, it is not that we have to 'evolve' towards a higher density, because ALL densities already EXIST in ourselves (remember that there is no time per se, there is only Eternity). It is rather a reaching in term of consciousness. Where we stand now in consciousness determines our so-called 'level' of density.

Be well friends of Love and Light.
And, 'see' you in 4D!

Whitefeather