2006.02.07 Two types of astrology

[Plenum]

I'm not one that has ever been drawn much to Astrology. I knew my Sun Sign, of course, from an early age, and learned about Chinese Astrology during my 'malaysian awakening'. But this passage from Q'uo caught my eye; and has an interesting reference to Mr Cayce. That guy really did have a hotlink into the akashic records. A true benchmark for psychic ability.

taken from: http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0207.aspx

the question

“Edgar Cayce said that most modern astrologers use the wrong zodiac and should be using one based on the “Persian calendar.” The use of the sidereal zodiac, which accounts for precession of the stars as espoused by Cyril Fagan and Donald Bradley, results in rotating the planets about 24 degrees clockwise in the horoscope chart or eight-tenths of a sign backwards when compared to the use of the tropical zodiac. For example, my Sun sign is Pisces in the tropical zodiac, yet falls back into the sign of Aquarius in a horoscope based on the sidereal zodiac. I believe that my Sun sign is Aquarius. I also believe that the use of the Fagan/Bradley sidereal zodiac is more accurate than that of the tropical zodiac to determine the placement of the “planets,” which also include our Sun and Moon, in the signs and houses of a natal horoscope. Can you confirm this?”

the answer

With regard to the query asked by the one known as E concerning the use of the sidereal astrology as opposed to the tropical astrology, we cannot confirm the choice of one type of reading over another, and we would make a few comments about our inability to confirm this preference.

It is our understanding—and we offer it humbly since we feel that it is only a rough approximation of the truth rather than the precise truth—that the use of both sidereal and tropical astrological charts is appropriate when studying the influences which make up the geography of an entity’s interior landscape.

There are two aspects to a density. One aspect is relatively fixed; one aspect is relatively unfixed. The masculine side of the study of astrology is that of the tropical astrological chart. It represents that which is fixed into the Earth by the occasion of your birth into third-density existence.

There is another aspect which influences the use of astrology and this is the feminine aspect of the density. In this focus of astrology, the information is considerably helpful, but it does differ from the tropical chart in that it embraces more of the unfixed or soul-driven, if you will, aspects of personality.

Therefore, if an entity is actively investigating his own soul aspects, it is quite likely that he will find sidereal astrology more helpful in describing the environment in which he finds himself in his inner work than if he uses the tropical astrological chart.

Gazing at the differences between a sidereal and a tropical chart will give to an entity an interesting view of the various aspects of his own character. The sidereal aspects (feminine) describe more the soul aspects of the entity, whereas the tropical chart (masculine) describes more the personality or applied incarnational aspects of a personality.

Looking at the difference between the two gives to the student of his own personality an idea of the dynamics of the earthly self with respect to that self which entered incarnation and that self which shall remain after incarnation.

Neither aspect is higher than the other aspect. We wish to make that clear. The two aspects are, as it were, the vertical aspect and the horizontal aspect of that cruciform nature of personality. There is that vertical aspect that touches down into the earth and holds into incarnation certain aspects of the personality, and there is that floating or horizontal aspect to the personality that is never completely nailed down by incarnation, but rests within the energy body as the deeper aspects that the soul has brought forward into incarnation at this time.

so again, we have the dominance of the 'male version' of events, that is, tropical chart, which is concerned with the outward nature of things, or the personality shell. And the feminine astrology points to the inner path, or the soul's journey.

ps the bits in red are added by me

[Sagittarius]

Thanks a lot for this Plenum. I never delved into the other type of astrology but I just did then and it really does fit together perfectly as RA described it.

Sheds a lot of light.

[Conifer16]

so if i am aquarius in my personality shell(what i've always been told), then my inner path sign would be? :-)

[Meerie]

so if i am aquarius in my personality shell(what i've always been told), then my inner path sign would be? :-)

Capricorn

[Conifer16]

truly?

[Parsons]

I thought this quote basically said your inner sign was dynamic/"unfixed"? How can someone determine that in the case of a moving target?

[Meerie]

truly?

no. In reality you contain all the 12 signs of the zodiac. Degrees may vary, though. (<- astrologers joke, har har)

[Ankh]

Meerie, so you just go back one sign? So instead of Virgo I am a Leo?

[Meerie]

Meerie, so you just go back one sign? So instead of Virgo I am a Leo?

yes

---

isn't the quote saying we have both? so you would be both virgo and leo?

yes

[Conifer16]

isn't the quote saying we have both? so you would be both virgo and leo?

[roamer]

Meerie, so you just go back one sign? So instead of Virgo I am a Leo?

More precisely, you have to go back by approximately 24 degrees. So for example if you were born on September 20 -- corresponding to Virgo 27° -- then your sidereal sun sign will also be Virgo.
Apart from these exceptions you can go back by one sign, for example from Virgo to Leo.

[Sacred Fool]

For some reason, Westerners place an enormous emphasis upon which sign their sun is in.  In Vedic astrology, that is one significant fact among 261 others.  The relationship between the planets, the "houses," the "birth star," the astrological signs and whatnot, all these strands (or lines of force) weave an highly complex pattern which can be used to give some insight into the struggles one faces.  And then it goes on to describe what influences one might be facing at this or that given point in time.  

I seem to recall Ra saying something about the more deeply one knows oneself, the less these forces catch one unawares, or the more skillfully one can work with them.  Until one reaches such a state, a model of the dynamic flow can potentially give useful insight.

Oddly enough, I had a Vedic astrological reading done recently (my first competent reading).  I'm still chewing through my notes, combing out useful insights. The astrologer recommended a couple of pujas.  Yesterday I had a Rahu puja done for me at a local Sai Baba (of Shirdi) temple.  The energy of that place already feels like coming home to me and the shakti of the puja was wonderful.  

I might add that, although I feel that way about the energy, I'm the only white dude I've ever seen hanging around there and I don't speak a word of Hindi (or Tamil or whatever) while the priest's--and many other's--English is scant and hard to understand.  Even so, it all works out.  There's not much talking goes on there.  It's more worship and seva oriented (totally volunteer, save for the priest).  People come and go.  I show up irregularly and dig the vibes in sweet meditation.

It helps put me in a good mood, so, therefore, I haven't been wildly ranting in these forums so much of late.
 

[Hypello]

For some reason, Westerners place an enormous emphasis upon which sign their sun is in.  In Vedic astrology, that is one significant fact among 261 others.  The relationship between the planets, the "houses," the "birth star," the astrological signs and whatnot, all these strands (or lines of force) weave an highly complex pattern which can be used to give some insight into the struggles one faces.  And then it goes on to describe what influences one might be facing at this or that given point in time.  

I seem to recall Ra saying something about the more deeply one knows oneself, the less these forces catch one unawares, or the more skillfully one can work with them.  Until one reaches such a state, a model of the dynamic flow can potentially give useful insight.

Oddly enough, I had a Vedic astrological reading done recently (my first competent reading).  I'm still chewing through my notes, combing out useful insights. The astrologer recommended a couple of pujas.  Yesterday I had a Rahu puja done for me at a local Sai Baba (of Shirdi) temple.  The energy of that place already feels like coming home to me and the shakti of the puja was wonderful.  

I might add that, although I feel that way about the energy, I'm the only white dude I've ever seen hanging around there and I don't speak a word of Hindi (or Tamil or whatever) while the priest's--and many other's--English is scant and hard to understand.  Even so, it all works out.  There's not much talking goes on there.  It's more worship and seva oriented (totally volunteer, save for the priest).  People come and go.  I show up irregularly and dig the vibes in sweet meditation.

It helps put me in a good mood, so, therefore, I haven't been wildly ranting in these forums so much of late.
 

It's so nice to see the ancient wisdom through new eyes. The energy of a temple can really be spiritually uplifting. I was born into Indian culture, but grew up in England so I've had one foot in both worlds all my life. I personally found Indian astrologers to be either too vague or too prescriptive, but posts like these and the Law of One material are getting me thinking more about the incarnation of astral/ cosmic energy and astrology (I'm also an astrologer).

Do you know about the Lunar Mansions, and which one is the most prominent in your chart?

[Nau7ik]

I had never read that quote before until now, but a vedic astrologer mentioned that Cayce said the Western Tropical (he said Persian, which is the western tropical) was off by almost a whole sign. when I started looking into astrology I started with the Western system. My birth chart wasn’t describing me very well. Then I discovered vedic Sidereal astrology and I found it to be far more accurate!

@Hypello, the lunar mansions correspond to the nakshatras right? How do you know which one is most prominent? My Sun is in Hasta and Moon is in Swati. I also have Mars and Mercury occupying Chitra, and Jupiter and Venus occupying Magha. Saturn is in Uttarashada.

[flofrog]

Same here Nau7ik and Peregrine.

The only time I went to a psychic reader, he had studied and spoke sanskrit  and his explanation for the Hindu astrology was that not so much the change was on the birth sign itself,  but on how the houses in that sign were disposed differently from the western astrology. HIs explanation was that western astrology was fixed from Jesus' birth which meant it didn't take into account a degree change  every 72 years since the so called year 0 after BC.

Don't know how this explanation fits with your perhaps more educated one, but there it is for what it is worth.

[Quan]

I'm not one that has ever been drawn much to Astrology.  I knew my Sun Sign, of course, from an early age, and learned about Chinese Astrology during my 'malaysian awakening'.  But this passage from Q'uo caught my eye; and has an interesting reference to Mr Cayce.  That guy really did have a hotlink into the akashic records.  A true benchmark for psychic ability.

taken from: http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0207.aspx

the question

“Edgar Cayce said that most modern astrologers use the wrong zodiac and should be using one based on the “Persian calendar.” The use of the sidereal zodiac, which accounts for precession of the stars as espoused by Cyril Fagan and Donald Bradley, results in rotating the planets about 24 degrees clockwise in the horoscope chart or eight-tenths of a sign backwards when compared to the use of the tropical zodiac. For example, my Sun sign is Pisces in the tropical zodiac, yet falls back into the sign of Aquarius in a horoscope based on the sidereal zodiac. I believe that my Sun sign is Aquarius. I also believe that the use of the Fagan/Bradley sidereal zodiac is more accurate than that of the tropical zodiac to determine the placement of the “planets,” which also include our Sun and Moon, in the signs and houses of a natal horoscope. Can you confirm this?”

the answer

With regard to the query asked by the one known as E concerning the use of the sidereal astrology as opposed to the tropical astrology, we cannot confirm the choice of one type of reading over another, and we would make a few comments about our inability to confirm this preference.

It is our understanding—and we offer it humbly since we feel that it is only a rough approximation of the truth rather than the precise truth—that the use of both sidereal and tropical astrological charts is appropriate when studying the influences which make up the geography of an entity’s interior landscape.

There are two aspects to a density. One aspect is relatively fixed; one aspect is relatively unfixed. The masculine side of the study of astrology is that of the tropical astrological chart. It represents that which is fixed into the Earth by the occasion of your birth into third-density existence.

There is another aspect which influences the use of astrology and this is the feminine aspect of the density. In this focus of astrology, the information is considerably helpful, but it does differ from the tropical chart in that it embraces more of the unfixed or soul-driven, if you will, aspects of personality.

Therefore, if an entity is actively investigating his own soul aspects, it is quite likely that he will find sidereal astrology more helpful in describing the environment in which he finds himself in his inner work than if he uses the tropical astrological chart.

Gazing at the differences between a sidereal and a tropical chart will give to an entity an interesting view of the various aspects of his own character. The sidereal aspects (feminine) describe more the soul aspects of the entity, whereas the tropical chart (masculine) describes more the personality or applied incarnational aspects of a personality.

Looking at the difference between the two gives to the student of his own personality an idea of the dynamics of the earthly self with respect to that self which entered incarnation and that self which shall remain after incarnation.

Neither aspect is higher than the other aspect. We wish to make that clear. The two aspects are, as it were, the vertical aspect and the horizontal aspect of that cruciform nature of personality. There is that vertical aspect that touches down into the earth and holds into incarnation certain aspects of the personality, and there is that floating or horizontal aspect to the personality that is never completely nailed down by incarnation, but rests within the energy body as the deeper aspects that the soul has brought forward into incarnation at this time.

so again, we have the dominance of the 'male version' of events, that is, tropical chart, which is concerned with the outward nature of things, or the personality shell.  And the feminine astrology points to the inner path, or the soul's journey.

ps the bits in red are added by me

Wow fascinating  the soul and earthly selfs dynamic in Astrology, brings great appreciation from me as i tend to be pretty one eyed to the Tarot

[Glow]

I'm not one that has ever been drawn much to Astrology. I knew my Sun Sign, of course, from an early age, and learned about Chinese Astrology during my 'malaysian awakening'. But this passage from Q'uo caught my eye; and has an interesting reference to Mr Cayce. That guy really did have a hotlink into the akashic records. A true benchmark for psychic ability.

taken from: http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0207.aspx

the question

“Edgar Cayce said that most modern astrologers use the wrong zodiac and should be using one based on the “Persian calendar.” The use of the sidereal zodiac, which accounts for precession of the stars as espoused by Cyril Fagan and Donald Bradley, results in rotating the planets about 24 degrees clockwise in the horoscope chart or eight-tenths of a sign backwards when compared to the use of the tropical zodiac. For example, my Sun sign is Pisces in the tropical zodiac, yet falls back into the sign of Aquarius in a horoscope based on the sidereal zodiac. I believe that my Sun sign is Aquarius. I also believe that the use of the Fagan/Bradley sidereal zodiac is more accurate than that of the tropical zodiac to determine the placement of the “planets,” which also include our Sun and Moon, in the signs and houses of a natal horoscope. Can you confirm this?”

the answer

With regard to the query asked by the one known as E concerning the use of the sidereal astrology as opposed to the tropical astrology, we cannot confirm the choice of one type of reading over another, and we would make a few comments about our inability to confirm this preference.

It is our understanding—and we offer it humbly since we feel that it is only a rough approximation of the truth rather than the precise truth—that the use of both sidereal and tropical astrological charts is appropriate when studying the influences which make up the geography of an entity’s interior landscape.

There are two aspects to a density. One aspect is relatively fixed; one aspect is relatively unfixed. The masculine side of the study of astrology is that of the tropical astrological chart. It represents that which is fixed into the Earth by the occasion of your birth into third-density existence.

There is another aspect which influences the use of astrology and this is the feminine aspect of the density. In this focus of astrology, the information is considerably helpful, but it does differ from the tropical chart in that it embraces more of the unfixed or soul-driven, if you will, aspects of personality.

Therefore, if an entity is actively investigating his own soul aspects, it is quite likely that he will find sidereal astrology more helpful in describing the environment in which he finds himself in his inner work than if he uses the tropical astrological chart.

Gazing at the differences between a sidereal and a tropical chart will give to an entity an interesting view of the various aspects of his own character. The sidereal aspects (feminine) describe more the soul aspects of the entity, whereas the tropical chart (masculine) describes more the personality or applied incarnational aspects of a personality.

Looking at the difference between the two gives to the student of his own personality an idea of the dynamics of the earthly self with respect to that self which entered incarnation and that self which shall remain after incarnation.

Neither aspect is higher than the other aspect. We wish to make that clear. The two aspects are, as it were, the vertical aspect and the horizontal aspect of that cruciform nature of personality. There is that vertical aspect that touches down into the earth and holds into incarnation certain aspects of the personality, and there is that floating or horizontal aspect to the personality that is never completely nailed down by incarnation, but rests within the energy body as the deeper aspects that the soul has brought forward into incarnation at this time.

so again, we have the dominance of the 'male version' of events, that is, tropical chart, which is concerned with the outward nature of things, or the personality shell. And the feminine astrology points to the inner path, or the soul's journey.

ps the bits in red are added by me

This explains a lot. I had my birth time rectified because I was so lost I was searching everything for clues and didn’t resonate at all with Capricorn. The time of my birth produced the uncapricorn Capricorn and described pre-soulwork me quite accurately.

It seemed though from even that time of personal growth I had grown past many of my shadow aspects. From then on I saw it as who you are before you heal your stuff. I haven’t had an accurate side real chart done.
Could be useful!

[Hypello]

All in all (typing this as a humble astrologer) there are many factors to take into account when looking at a birthchart - sidereal or tropical. Especially "yin" signs, which are all water and earth signs. Your moon, if you are a "yin" sign, may be in a yang sign and that would dominate your personality more than your Sun. Or it could be Mercury (the way you express yourself, communicate and receive/ digest information) or your ascendant that overtakes personality traits. Unless you're in comfortable settings and then your Sun sign comes out.

Adding to the debate about sidereal and tropical going hand in hand, I say the Sun and Moon signs go hand in hand also. The Sun rules many things but it's the moon that governs out "okay" mood (when we are normal - neither happy nor sad), our habits when we are in survival mode or when life is unstable and  changeable.

Aquarians are unique in that they are always born into difficult family circumstances and learn from an early stage that it isn't all about them. They are emotionally resilient because of or in spite of it, but the personal, secret sense of inadequacy or undeserving-ness of attention remains. If the Sun is in Aquarius (in either sidereal or zodiac) it's also worth looking at the moon. If you'd like to know what yours is, this is a really cool online resource!

www.alwaysastrology.com

[Hypello]

I had never read that quote before until now, but a vedic astrologer mentioned that Cayce said the Western Tropical (he said Persian, which is the western tropical) was off by almost a whole sign. when I started looking into astrology I started with the Western system. My birth chart wasn’t describing me very well. Then I discovered vedic Sidereal astrology and I found it to be far more accurate!

@Hypello, the lunar mansions correspond to the nakshatras right? How do you know which one is most prominent? My Sun is in Hasta and Moon is in Swati. I also have Mars and Mercury occupying Chitra, and Jupiter and Venus occupying Magha. Saturn is in Uttarashada.

Sorry, I've only the day before realised you had responded to my earlier post! Your Venus and Moon are in beautiful Nakshatras. Normally it's your Moon and Ascendant ones that are dominant, plus I think your Venus might be dominant as (I think) that is a very fortunate placement. It's good to know where all of your planets are though but it's a lot of reading!