Being consciously unloving.

[Ohr Ein Sof]

"forgive them father for they know not what they do?"

The romans were torturing and killing someone in public. They did not know they were killing God. BUT they knew they were not being loving. Their intentions were consciously unloving. They just thought that doing this to a criminal was ok.

...you will suffer and you will make others suffer until you do know better. Human suffering 101.

As a seeker of the Law of One, I do know that all are God. Killing anyone or anything alive is killing God.

But the difference with those romans is that finding out that all are God did not change my intentions towards others. If they knew they were killing God instead of a criminal maybe they would have changed their minds.

As for myself, that fact changes nothing, I always had positive intentions as far as I can remember in this incarnation. I always thought everyone was important. At some point I wanted to be a prison guard, because I figured even the most evil criminal needs compassionate treatment while in prison.

So in my opinion you are hardly making a fair comparison.

That being said, I was not aware I was making people suffer.  What should I know in order to not make others suffer?

OK. I was not talking about the Romans, the Jews or Jesus or Y'shua. I was simply speaking about the meaning of the quote that was SAID by Jesus. Are we this dense?
And furthermore...until you are conscious you do unconscious things. Until the pattern that an individual is repeating comes up to the threshold of the conscious mind it remains illusive or a hidden thing. How can one forgive something they are not yet aware of? Hence, you own ignorance. And until then, one will hurt himself and others until the threshold of understanding has been breached and the work in consciousness can begin where he will find forgiveness as a crucial part of his eleviation of Karma and self suffering. This was not a fair comparison? How so? You have made ppl suffer unless you are about to tell me you are perfect in every way and have been since your creation on all planes of reality because the completely conscious individual remembers who he is, who he has been from the beginning. Like Y'shua or the Buddha. The Masters.

[Patrick]

OK. I was not talking about the Romans, the Jews or Jesus or Y'shua. I was simply speaking about the meaning of the quote that was SAID by Jesus. Are we this dense?
And furthermore...until you are conscious you do unconscious things. Until the pattern that an individual is repeating comes up to the threshold of the conscious mind it remains illusive or a hidden thing. How can one forgive something they are not yet aware of? Hence, you own ignorance. And until then, one will hurt himself and others until the threshold of understanding has been breached and the work in consciousness can begin where he will find forgiveness as a crucial part of his eleviation of Karma and self suffering. This was not a fair comparison? How so? You have made ppl suffer unless you are about to tell me you are perfect in every way and have been since your creation on all planes of reality because the completely conscious individual remembers who he is, who he has been from the beginning. Like Y'shua or the Buddha. The Masters.

Ok I think I see better why I misunderstood. I believe I may have a different understanding of what Karma is, why Karma is and how Karma works.

Do you believe one can gather any significant Karma while having only loving/positive intentions?

[Dtris]

OK. I was not talking about the Romans, the Jews or Jesus or Y'shua. I was simply speaking about the meaning of the quote that was SAID by Jesus. Are we this dense?
And furthermore...until you are conscious you do unconscious things. Until the pattern that an individual is repeating comes up to the threshold of the conscious mind it remains illusive or a hidden thing. How can one forgive something they are not yet aware of? Hence, you own ignorance. And until then, one will hurt himself and others until the threshold of understanding has been breached and the work in consciousness can begin where he will find forgiveness as a crucial part of his eleviation of Karma and self suffering. This was not a fair comparison? How so? You have made ppl suffer unless you are about to tell me you are perfect in every way and have been since your creation on all planes of reality because the completely conscious individual remembers who he is, who he has been from the beginning. Like Y'shua or the Buddha. The Masters.

Ok I think I see better why I misunderstood. I believe I may have a different understanding of what Karma is, why Karma is and how Karma works.

Do you believe one can gather any significant Karma while having only loving/positive intentions?

I think it is only a western idea that karma is related to negative actions/intentions. Karma is traditionally seen as relationships made thru actions. These relationships can be with an individual, a family, an organization, or even a place or country.

While I am not an expert on buddhism I believe this relates to their concept of merits. Doing good deeds, and being loving and positive attracts karmic merit which will help the individual on their path to enlightenment. While doing negative deeds or causing harm creates blockages to enlightenment.

A similar concept exists in Taoist philosophy with the concept of Virtue. One who is virtuous will enhance their cultivation more quickly than one who is not virtuous.

Also while having positive intentions and being loving, if you still do harm thru misjudgement, neglect, or hubris, you will gather negative karma. I think this is probably fairly common among those who attempt to help others without permission or having been asked first.

[MonadicSpectrum]

Welcome to Bring4th MonadicSpectrum! I really liked what you wrote here, and it made me think of the below quote from the LOO, especially the bolded part below.

34.5 Questioner: If an entity develops what is called a karma in an incarnation, is there then programming that sometimes occurs so that he will experience catalyst that will enable him to get to a point of forgiveness thereby alleviating the karma?

Ra: I am Ra. This is, in general, correct. However, both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns. This is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. Thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. This also brakes or stops what you call karma.

I wanted to elaborate on your poison analogy. People consciously ingesting poison everyday out of compulsion, addiction and/or to self-medicate happens all the time. Cigarettes come to mind as the negative health implications of smoking is now well known. This behaviour however is often the symptom of a much deeper problem in one's life. We only have so much willpower in a day, and when dealing with very stressful situations, we may have no motivation for self-care left. Perhaps forgiveness in these other areas of life, including forgiving the blame we often put on ourselves when we feel unable to cope in life, will result in the cessation of the poison habit automatically.

Thinking about these kinds of unhealthy habits, usually the focus is on the effects on the body, but there is also a lot of mental suffering that goes a long with it. Examples of this would be the cognitive dissonance of willingly causing harm to one's body in order to seek comfort, to ignore the self's needs as though they are not important, reinforcing the belief that the self has poor willpower, etc. So, there are many aspects to forgive in order to find one's true power again beyond just the physical act of stopping the behaviour, I believe. This definitely takes a shift in perspective, usually quite a dramatic one depending on how entrenched the negative behaviour is.

Thanks for the welcome! And those are some great points of consideration as well.

[MrWho]

While I meant it in its entirety that we as aware and empowered individual co creators seeking the ways of love.

Be wholly capable of absolving the self of any karmic debt through forgiveness.

I never meant to intend an apathetic approach towards the very real suffering of the world and our other-selves which occures every moment.

Moreover I never meant to extend such a process of self forgivenes onto the intentional suffering of others for personal benifit.

Can one know true forgiveness without sincere effort towards the stoppage of the actions or attitudes which originated the need for forgivness to begin with?

Infinite love/light light/love

[tadeus]

Ohr Ein Sof has closed the account!
That's a little bit disappointing.


In the last days i read a nice definition of Love from Eckhart Tolle, that fits perfect into this thread:

It is up to you to open a portal in your life that offers you a conscious access to the unmanifest.
Make contact with the energy field of the inner body, be intensely present, release the identification with the mind, give yourself to what is; you can use all these accesses - but one is enough.
Surely, love must also be one of these accesses.

No, it is not one of them. As soon as one of the portals opens, love is present in you as "feeling insight" of Oneness.
Love is not a portal; it is what comes through the portal into the world. As long as you are completely trapped in your form identity, there can be no love.
Your task is not to search for love, but to find a portal, an entrance through which love can enter.

[Sacred Fool]

Ohr Ein Sof has closed the account!
That's a little bit disappointing.

   
  
Hmmmmm....................

For all the prior talk of making this place more meaningful for more people, I'm not seeing that happening right now.

Maybe that's more difficult than it sounds?  Maybe we shouldn't be concerned?  I mean, maybe the forces of developement are simply on their own pathway and walking away when we're no longer being served is as it should be?

[Patrick]

I think people could take a break without closing their account. I don't understand that need. We can just put our status to Away and if we change our mind in ten years, we can just come back.

Ah well, I think I'm just too practical...

[Vestige]

Ohr Ein Sof has closed the account!
That's a little bit disappointing.


In the last days i read a nice definition of Love from Eckhart Tolle, that fits perfect into this thread:

It is up to you to open a portal in your life that offers you a conscious access to the unmanifest.
Make contact with the energy field of the inner body, be intensely present, release the identification with the mind, give yourself to what is; you can use all these accesses - but one is enough.
Surely, love must also be one of these accesses.

No, it is not one of them. As soon as one of the portals opens, love is present in you as "feeling insight" of Oneness.
Love is not a portal; it is what comes through the portal into the world. As long as you are completely trapped in your form identity, there can be no love.
Your task is not to search for love, but to find a portal, an entrance through which love can enter.

I resonate somewhat with what Tolle is saying here - thank you for sharing, tadeus.  In one particular channeling session I recall, Q'uo had offered that each of us, at a fundamental level, is a unique forging-together of free will and love.  As we learn and evolve, we release our free will, in a sense, we become less various, so that we can better embrace the universal identity of love...

[unity100]

Things can become much more easier if you realize that being loving does not necessarily mean being lovey-dovey.