Ionized water

[Monica]

Mod Edit: Original statement from dreamliner: 


Any tangible or intangible thing in life, can be used to exploit other people, by promising happiness, wellness, wisdom or etc.; such as alkaline water ionizers or kangen water. Scientifically, there is no empirical evidence to support the claims of those type of water ionizers:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_ionizer
http://www.purative.com/2012/01/scientis...ine-water/

??? dreamliner, why are you bringing up ionized water? That is completely off-topic. The wikipedia article is simply wrong, and that is easily provable with scientific equipment. (Remember: humans write wikipedia, so it might not be a good idea to use it as an authority.)

As for medical research, you are mistaken. Simply do a search in the medical journals (PubMed) for the technical term Electrolyzed Reduced Water and you will find lots of research. Aside from personal experience, you might consider trusting scientific research, instead of an ad for Gerol Steiner sparkling water (a plastic bottled water! haha).

Now, let's get back on topic, ok? 

[dreamliner]

??? dreamliner, why are you bringing up ionized water? That is completely off-topic. The wikipedia article is simply wrong, and that is easily provable with scientific equipment. (Remember: humans write wikipedia, so it might not be a good idea to use it as an authority.)

As for medical research, you are mistaken. Simply do a search in the medical journals (PubMed) for the technical term Electrolyzed Reduced Water and you will find lots of research. Aside from personal experience, you might consider trusting scientific research, instead of an ad for Gerol Steiner sparkling water (a plastic bottled water! haha).

Now, let's get back on topic, ok? 

I brought up kangen, because I saw it in your profile, as you might have imagined already.

I don't aggree with you that the wikipedia article is incorrect. Generally, qualified editors contribute in writing wikipedia articles, many of whom are sensitive about "fringe science" and "pseudoscience".

I ran a google search for "Electrolyzed Reduced Water ", and it seems that there are many papers. However, many of those papers' authors are asians (where water ionizer industry is well developed; kangen is japanese for instance), and many of the papers seem to talk about the "tangential"/"secondary" aspects of ERW (if those aspects are correct of course, because there might be lots of weak points of those "researchs"/papers); both of which make me think of those papers' promoting function/nature. As if a bunch of asian "scientists" have been trying to whitewash ERW. ERW's or water ionizers' miraculous effects look "too good to be true"  to me.

The link I mentioned above, does not advertise Gerol Steiner sparkling water specifically; actually it is the website of a "reverse osmosis water filter" seller/producer. It mentions Gerol Steiner sparkling water in a satirical/sarcastic way, only to emphasize that high alkalinity does not solve all the problems.

This link looks better: http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html

[Monica]

??? dreamliner, why are you bringing up ionized water? That is completely off-topic. The wikipedia article is simply wrong, and that is easily provable with scientific equipment. (Remember: humans write wikipedia, so it might not be a good idea to use it as an authority.)

As for medical research, you are mistaken. Simply do a search in the medical journals (PubMed) for the technical term Electrolyzed Reduced Water and you will find lots of research. Aside from personal experience, you might consider trusting scientific research, instead of an ad for Gerol Steiner sparkling water (a plastic bottled water! haha).

Now, let's get back on topic, ok? 

I brought up kangen, because I saw it in your profile, as you might have imagined already.

I don't aggree with you that the wikipedia article is incorrect. Generally, qualified editors contribute in writing wikipedia articles, many of whom are sensitive about "fringe science" and "pseudoscience".

I ran a google search for "Electrolyzed Reduced Water ", and it seems that there are many papers. However, many of those papers' authors are asians (where water ionizer industry is well developed; kangen is japanese for instance), and many of the papers seem to talk about the "tangential"/"secondary" aspects of ERW; both of which make me think of those papers' promoting function/nature. As if a bunch of asian "scientists" have been trying to whitewash ERW. ERW's or water ionizers' miraculous effects look "too good to be true"  to me.

The link I mentioned above, does not advertise Gerol Steiner sparkling water  specifically; actually it is the website of a "reverse osmosis water filter" seller/producer. It mentions Gerol Steiner sparkling water in a satirical/sarcastic way, only to emphasize that high alkalinity does not solve all the problems.

1. It's still off-topic.
2. You can choose to believe whatever you like, but the wikipedia article, along with others, was clearly written by someone who either didn't bother to get educated on the technology, OR had a vested interest in promoting DISinfo. I can back up everything I am saying here...this isn't opinion, but fact, easily verified with scientific testing equipment. I am happy to continue this privately, if you like. For now, suffice to say that pH of 7 going in, pH of 2.5-12 going out, is easily verifiable...that is a difference of a factor of 1 million. That is hardly 'nothing' - that is something tangible. And, the ORP going in can be +500, but -900 coming out...again, that is a change of 1400 points. To say that that is 'nothing' is either ignorant or deceptive. If you want to pursue this, contact me privately. This isn't the place.
3. If you think balancing bodily chemistry is 'too good to be true' then I suggest that you meet some real, live people whose health has been impacted. (raises hand) Again, I am happy to oblige privately.
4. Actually, it does indeed recommend Gerol Steiner water (whatever that is). That's where I got it...I actually read what you posted. Apparently I missed the sarcasm. This too, just shows their lack of knowledge on the subject, if they think that alkaline pH is the main property of ERW. But whether they are selling that bottled water or reverse osmosis, doesn't matter...the point is that believing some sales pitch instead of real research (and real people's experiences) isn't likely to result in education on any given topic.
5. Quoting someone who sells reverse osmosis is amusing, being that it's very harmful.
6. I hope I am wrong in my impression from you that you don't respect Asian research. Japan ranks #1 in the world for health...and they are known for their sophisticated technology. Whether the research is Asian actually makes it stronger, not weaker.

Come to think of it though, thank you for illustrating my point about making any human an 'authority'.  Just because something is on the internet, doesn't mean it's true. Just because some website poses as an authority, doesn't mean it's perfectly accurate. Cross-referencing is always a good idea!

Please don't continue this in this thread. It's off-topic. Again, contact me privately if you wish to learn more about ERW. 

[dreamliner]

??? dreamliner, why are you bringing up ionized water? That is completely off-topic. The wikipedia article is simply wrong, and that is easily provable with scientific equipment. (Remember: humans write wikipedia, so it might not be a good idea to use it as an authority.)

As for medical research, you are mistaken. Simply do a search in the medical journals (PubMed) for the technical term Electrolyzed Reduced Water and you will find lots of research. Aside from personal experience, you might consider trusting scientific research, instead of an ad for Gerol Steiner sparkling water (a plastic bottled water! haha).

Now, let's get back on topic, ok? 

I brought up kangen, because I saw it in your profile, as you might have imagined already.

I don't aggree with you that the wikipedia article is incorrect. Generally, qualified editors contribute in writing wikipedia articles, many of whom are sensitive about "fringe science" and "pseudoscience".

I ran a google search for "Electrolyzed Reduced Water ", and it seems that there are many papers. However, many of those papers' authors are asians (where water ionizer industry is well developed; kangen is japanese for instance), and many of the papers seem to talk about the "tangential"/"secondary" aspects of ERW; both of which make me think of those papers' promoting function/nature. As if a bunch of asian "scientists" have been trying to whitewash ERW. ERW's or water ionizers' miraculous effects look "too good to be true"  to me.

The link I mentioned above, does not advertise Gerol Steiner sparkling water  specifically; actually it is the website of a "reverse osmosis water filter" seller/producer. It mentions Gerol Steiner sparkling water in a satirical/sarcastic way, only to emphasize that high alkalinity does not solve all the problems.

1. It's still off-topic.
2. You can choose to believe whatever you like, but the wikipedia article, along with others, was clearly written by someone who either didn't bother to get educated on the technology, OR had a vested interest in promoting DISinfo. I can back up everything I am saying here...this isn't opinion, but fact, easily verified with scientific testing equipment. I am happy to continue this privately, if you like. For now, suffice to say that pH of 7 going in, pH of 2.5-12 going out, is easily verifiable...that is a difference of a factor of 1 million. That is hardly 'nothing' - that is something tangible. And, the ORP going in can be +500, but -900 coming out...again, that is a change of 1400 points. To say that that is 'nothing' is either ignorant or deceptive. If you want to pursue this, contact me privately. This isn't the place.
3. If you think balancing bodily chemistry is 'too good to be true' then I suggest that you meet some real, live people whose health has been impacted. (raises hand) Again, I am happy to oblige privately.
4. Actually, it does indeed recommend Gerol Steiner water (whatever that is). That's where I got it...I actually read what you posted. Apparently I missed the sarcasm. This too, just shows their lack of knowledge on the subject, if they think that alkaline pH is the main property of ERW. But whether they are selling that bottled water or reverse osmosis, doesn't matter...the point is that believing some sales pitch instead of real research isn't likely to result in education on any given topic.
5. Quoting someone who sells reverse osmosis is amusing, being that it's very harmful.

Please don't continue this in this thread. It's off-topic. Again, contact me privately if you wish to learn more about ERW. 

1. I don't need to learn anything more about ERW, and I will not contact you privately for anything related to ERW.

2. I suggest you to look at http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html . I'm sorry, but claimed "good health effeccts" of ERW are not facts, personal subjective experiences only.

3. I'm sure there are many people out there experiencing miraculous effects of ERW; but there are methods to use, when trying to make something as "scientifically approved".

4. The link given above -the one you claim recommends gerol steiner water- does not say anything different than http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html

5. Reverse osmosis is the primary filtering technology on earth; it is used as 1st stage filtering on many applications, most probably including your household water supplied by municipality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_osmosis  . So, reverse osmosis as a technology is not harmful; I am just quoting the information given on the website, not the reverse osmosis filters they sell. You can call what I'm doing as "valuing the essence".

6. The technology of a household refrigerator is even more complex but cheaper than "water ionizers". Any entrepreneur can manufacture water ionizers at a unit cost of 50$, or even less.

[Monica]

1. I don't need to learn anything more about ERW, and I will not contact you privately for anything related to ERW.

2. I suggest you to look at http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html . I'm sorry, but claimed "good health effeccts" of ERW are not facts, personal subjective experiences only.

3. I'm sure there are many people out there experiencing miraculous effects of ERW; but there are methods to use, when trying to make something as "scientifically approved".

4. The link given above -the one you claim recommends gerol steiner water- does not say anything different than http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html

5. Reverse osmosis is the primary filtering technology on earth; it is used as 1st stage filtering on many applications, most probably including your household water supplied by municipality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_osmosis  . So, reverse osmosis as a technology is not harmful; I am just quoting the information given on the website, not the reverse osmosis filters they sell. You can call what I'm doing as "valuing the essence".

6. The technology of a household refrigerator is even more complex but cheaper than "water ionizers". Any entrepreneur can manufacture water ionizers at a unit cost of 50$, or even less.

chem1??? HAHAHA oh gosh... A so-called 'chemistry professor' who mixes up acid and alkaline...haha ok if you want to believe that, good luck to you. 

I'm not even going to take the bait...your other comments just show your lack of knowledge on this subject. (Yes, reverse osmosis water is harmful.) And since you've made it very clear that you are content to trust some websites and aren't interested in any of the scientific info, then there's no point in continuing.

Now, for the 3rd or 4th time...please get back on topic.