Interesting development (Addictions)

[βαθμιαίος]

Wow, you've had it rough. Congratulations on maintaining your sanity through it all.

Yes there are lessons, but second guessing what each addicts is, and then trying to control the situation to make them better, I would suggest is negatively polarizing to the self, and is not going to help unless the addict has hit their bottom. Ask any recovered addict what changed their life. It was trauma. That, I guarantee, is a rule.

In this case, I don't think anyone's suggesting Questioner try to control the situation to make it better but only that by talking to the young man and offering a different, spiritual perspective Questioner may be able to be a light in his darkness.

[Monica]

Ask any recovered addict what changed their life. It was trauma. That, I guarantee, is a rule.

Well I did...I asked myself...but maybe I don't quite qualify as an ex-addict since I was only addicted to speed for 1 year, and didn't get to rock bottom because of it. I was just a partier, but still had a job, went to school, etc. I quit because I felt myself becoming an addict and didn't want to go down that road. So I guess I quit before joining the ranks of the full-fledged addicts.

I also asked my friend named Michael, who was both a 60s generation drug addict and an alcoholic and quit upon getting religion, after causing enormous stress in his family. His answer to that question was "Jesus." I suppose it could be argued that he exchanged one addiction for another, but I see him as a well-adjusted, emotionally healthy person, with a lot of light. He is one of the nicest, most wonderful people I've ever met. We have discussed his experience in coming clean and he never mentioned any trauma catapulting him to quit. The trauma he experienced was in the throes of the addiction. Maybe he neglected to tell me all the details.

I have another friend who was a methhead, and another who was a crackhead. I'll ask both of them, out of curiosity, and report back later. I'm not trying to win a debate but am interested in exploring anything that seems to be an indisputable rule. You have more direct experience with this, but I am curious whether your experience is representative of some, most, or all people in that situation. Am I questioning your unshakable rule? Yes, I tend to question any rule presented as an absolute.

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My father went to his grave drinking. I've seen two friends go to the grave from cocaine, one disappear from his debt, and two who lost their nose to cocaine, only to turn to crack. I understand and accept that I don't know everything, and I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but there aren't many. I have yet to see an exception, seeing only the rule.

I'm sorry to hear of the intense catalyst you experienced! I'm glad to hear of the wonderful growth that resulted from it!

Have you considered, however, that all of us tend to attract patterns in our lives, because of the particular catalyst we need? According to what I've understood from the Law of One, it's reasonable that any one of us would experience the same pattern over and over and over, until we learn the lesson contained therein. Thus, it's understandable that you endured the trauma of being around loved ones who were addicts, until you finally learned that it wasn't your responsibility to 'save' them...or whatever lessons you learned from those experiences. Just as a 'battered wife' tends to attract an abusive husband, divorces him, only to replace him with another abusive man, until she learns whatever it is she needs to learn from abusive men. We ALL have our patterns!

Again, my intention is not to demean or invalidate in any way your particular experiences. My only point is that ALL of us tend to see the world thru the lens of our own experiences, which aren't necessarily representative of all people or all situations.

I was told by police, ambulance and many other people to get away from my addict ex-spouse and to stay as far away as I possibly could, because they had never seen good come of it, never seen anyone beat it and stay clean.

And yet, I know at least 3 people, right off the top of my head, who beat it and stayed clean. Wait, I just thought of another...make that 4. Add to that the author of the book I recommended...though I don't know him personally. In his case, he did indeed hit rock bottom. So, of the 5 that I can think of, only 1 quit after experiencing trauma which forced him to quit. (In fact, he still didn't actually quit until his dad put him in a hospital, but the many traumas got him to stay clean. Cigarettes got him in the end, though.) So my experience is different from yours. Both are valid.

I stayed and tried, to no avail, and it almost destroyed me. It was, however, the dark I needed to catapult me into the light to be sure, so for me this last relationship was a huge lesson.

That's a beautiful way to look at it! I feel that way about my ex-boyfriend (the one who got me into speed, LSD, etc.). The 3 1/2 years with him were very dark, but that darkness catapulted me to seek spirituality. Realizing this has helped me to forgive him and even be grateful to him.

Yes there are lessons, but second guessing what each addicts is, and then trying to control the situation to make them better, I would suggest is negatively polarizing to the self, and is not going to help unless the addict has hit their bottom.

I'm not suggesting second-guessing him. I'm suggesting that Questioner not completely turn his back on the kid because the kid doesn't meet xyz criteria. I'm suggesting that it's not our place to establish any sort of criteria before we extend an offer of love and service. I'm also suggesting that, as Wanderers, we may be simultaneously learning 5D lessons of wisdom, which have to do with discerning when and how to be of service, so that we aren't sucked into someone's black hole of addiction and despair. I'm suggesting that there may be a middle ground between turning him away and being drained by him. That middle ground might be to just be there as a friend, on standby, just in case the kid decides to reach for the Light.

[Peregrinus]

Wow, you've had it rough. Congratulations on maintaining your sanity through it all.

Who said I still have my sanity? :p

I also asked my friend named Michael, who was both a 60s generation drug addict and an alcoholic and quit upon getting religion, after causing enormous stress in his family. His answer to that question was "Jesus." I suppose it could be argued that he exchanged one addiction for another, but I see him as a well-adjusted, emotionally healthy person, with a lot of light. He is one of the nicest, most wonderful people I've ever met. We have discussed his experience in coming clean and he never mentioned any trauma catapulting him to quit. The trauma he experienced was in the throes of the addiction. Maybe he neglected to tell me all the details.

Ask him what his rock bottom was. Then he will tell you.

As to finding Jesus, this is what I talked of before, and I got this philosophy from Q'uo (I think). They explained that those that are in the darkest places use it to springboard into the light. Jesus just happens to be the direction of light for many. I used to think the same thing, that they trade one addiction for another, but now I believe I understand it from the Q'uo channelling.

I have another friend who was a methhead, and another who was a crackhead. I'll ask both of them, out of curiosity, and report back later.

Do so if you desire. Satisfying your curiosity is what you do it for. I don't need to know. I have been to many NA meetings and listened.

I'm not trying to win a debate but am interested in exploring anything that seems to be an indisputable rule.

Win if you like Possible, but improbable.

You have more direct experience with this, but I am curious whether your experience is representative of some, most, or all people in that situation. Am I questioning your unshakable rule? Yes, I tend to question any rule presented as an absolute.

As I did ask these questions many times, leading me to my understandings.

A rule... perhaps I used the term incorrectly. When it comes to the millions of addicts in the USA, there has to be exceptions.

[Questioner]

Monica, I agree that many unhappy behaviors fit into the broad definition we're using of addiction. Including some behaviors that by themselves could seem innocuous. And some known to be harmful when done in excess, but socially acceptable. Probably including some daily life challenges that many of us on the forum deal with.

I don't have behaviors that would merit a substance abuse treatment program. But just as anyone, I can turn at times to negative attitudes and unwise choices... even when I know better, just to evade being present with my own pain. When I say that someone seems to be driven compulsively to fill their inner emptiness, this is not to sit in judgment over them. It is to acknowledge that this daily challenge of the human condition for many of us seems to be hard for them too. I can empathize.

I want to make a distinction that I think your comments might have merged together. To say that someone's behavior shows addiction doesn't mean that I hopelessly wash my hands of them. Instead, it is a sign that extra caution is needed. They are drifting towards the rocks. I don't need to show my love by jumping into the whitecaps so that I might go down with them.

If there is a way I can offer the service of light and love through my caring conversation, I will. If there is a way I can offer practical help, I will. I'm learning how to set healthier limits. Sometimes people want the thrill of knocking the lighthouse off its foundation, so that they and others can explore the meaning of painful shipwreck. As soon as this seems to be the situation, I won't make myself available for that service.

Maybe they mean well but I just can't reach them now - I think that's the kid's case. Maybe they don't and wish to enjoy the dark without distraction - as some other people I've known, who seemed to me to be highly STS focused.

I'm not trying to win a debate

Actually, the insistence on that point, several times in a row, can kind of come across that way. P has shared some of his own deeply painful, traumatic experiences. He's seen the same painful patterns in the experiences he's seen others go through. He's learned about such situations (e.g. from the cops).

As a result of all he's learned, he sees extraordinary risks inherent in trying to help addicts. He's deeply concerned for those of light who may get sucked into dark corners they're not able to illuminate, given the limits of free will.

With great respect and gratitude, I see P's cautionary warnings as similar to someone who nearly died of food poisoning, lost their family to it, and now wants to remind everyone to keep the kitchen very, very clean. A discussion of how a little bit of grease might not hurt some people really kind of misses the point. He's advocating, as a rule of thumb, staying a continent away from the volcano, instead of trying to measure how many millimeters away is safe. I don't think you're advocating danger either, just a different perspective from your own experience. It does come across a bit like the Gilbert & Sullivan routine:
"What never?" "No never!"
"What never?" "No never!"
"What never?" "Well...hardly ever!"
(from "I am the Captain" in "HMS Pinafore")

[Monica]

To say that someone's behavior shows addiction doesn't mean that I hopelessly wash my hands of them. Instead, it is a sign that extra caution is needed. They are drifting towards the rocks. I don't need to show my love by jumping into the whitecaps so that I might go down with them.

If there is a way I can offer the service of light and love through my caring conversation, I will. If there is a way I can offer practical help, I will. I'm learning how to set healthier limits. Sometimes people want the thrill of knocking the lighthouse off its foundation, so that they and others can explore the meaning of painful shipwreck. As soon as this seems to be the situation, I won't make myself available for that service.

Maybe they mean well but I just can't reach them now - I think that's the kid's case. Maybe they don't and wish to enjoy the dark without distraction - as some other people I've known, who seemed to me to be highly STS focused.

Well said! You have summed up my point quite nicely.

I'm not trying to win a debate

Actually, the insistence on that point, several times in a row, can kind of come across that way.

So sorry! I think we were both a little insistent on our respective perspectives. Peregrinus, I honor and respect your experiences and your cautionary words. As I mentioned, I am simply trying to offer another perspective, and I tend to try to offer other perspectives whenever anything is stated as an absolute.

I just spoke with my former methhead friend, who happens to be my best friend of 29 years, so we're very close. Her experience was similar to mine, but with a stronger substance and for a longer period of time. She described quitting as having had her fill of it. She did hit rock bottom, and didn't climb out of it for 2 years, but the actual quitting itself was triggered by a feeling of disgust when her methhead friends were all groveling over a particularly large meth boulder. She got disgusted, gave them her stash, and walked out.

Interestingly, she also told me a story about a friend of hers, who was a heroin addict. While totally wasted one day, he was visited by a deceased friend, who told him he'd soon be joining him if he didn't quit. The guy quit at that moment and never went back. Now that's an interesting scenario I hadn't heard before!

Well I've said all I wanted to say, and I'm sorry if I came on a little too strong or too insistent. I guess we all have our hot buttons, eh? :-/

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Win if you like Possible, but improbable.

HA!!! We shall see! We just might have a moment of inspiration yet!

[Peregrinus]

Dear Monica,

We love you JUST THE WAY YOU ARE! so please, there is no need to apologize for being yourself. I come on strong very often too, and there is no wrong in that. I honor and respect your opinions too, and having compassion is a beautiful trait. A problem with it though is that it can allow one to be blind and lead down the lambs path if not using caution.

I have many times on this forum advocated caution, though at first people did not understand it. Looking both way before crossing the street keeps those lessons flowing

Stay well dear sister

Questioner,

I am happy you take my advice with a grain of salt. If I can spare anyone the pain I have suffered, it is a service I hope I may provide.

Good luck brother

[Monica]

Dear Monica,

We love you JUST THE WAY YOU ARE! so please, there is no need to apologize for being yourself.

Whew, thanks!

[Questioner]

Another "whew:" my partner & I were out doing errands. We got a call from the landlady to say that the kid would go to the other state with family members, and get medical evaluation & help. We came home a bit later than we expected, and the rock star told us that we missed some spectacular fireworks by just a few minutes. IF the kid is truly desiring to find a fresh start, here is a wonderful opportunity for him. He does not have my contact information.

Home life should be a lot calmer around here for a while.

Thanks SO MUCH to all who shared their advice and experiences.