Dolores Cannon says we are in 5D already

[manifestgirl]

Well then....My mind is officially BLOWN!

[keith]

No. I see it like you.

I will try to explain my vision on this topic, trying my best to base myself on LOO.

I classify as dimension the same that Ra called sub-density / plane. Within our third density there are 7 sub-densities / planes / dimensions, within each sub-density there are 7 sub-sub-densities / sub-plans / sub-dimensions and so it increases infinitely. These 7 divisions are analogous / representations of the 7 rays and also of the 7 densities. Therefore, the dimensions of the third density are infinite and when I use the term fourth dimension it is as if I were referring to a color. This color itself can be divided into infinite frequencies or infinite tones. I do not classify these sub-densities / planes / dimensions as simply spatial and temporal perceptions. A more precise term is vibratory frequency.

Now, these 7 sub-densities / dimensions / planes are divided into space / time and time / space. In esotericism, this difference is called outer planes and inner plans. I suppose you understand the difference between space / time and time / space.

Space / time is where incarnations take place, catalysis is experienced and lessons are learned. Physically we can consider that this space / time is that whose photons that make up physical matter (since everything that exists is formed by a universal substance, Ra called it Light, the ancients called it Ether or Akasha) vibrate at a speed that approaches the speed of light. That is why physicists say that the borderline speed of the universe is the speed of light. Ra said that when a ship approaches the speed of light it disappears from that reality and temporarily exists in time / space. This is how the slingshot effect works.

Time / space is where healing and revision of an incarnation takes place. Time approaches infinity and that is why time is no longer linear, that is, it is not counted every second, but it can be accessed as a whole. It's like opening any page in a book instead of reading each page sequentially. It is my hypothesis that each plane vibrates faster and faster and therefore is getting closer and closer to zero time or infinite time.

In my view, dimensions 1-3 form the physical plane, while dimensions 4-7 form the inner planes.

I am afraid I have to disagree that we have the same views.  Yes I do have an understanding of space/time and time/space. 
In my view, there are only 6 spaces and 6 times in all of the densities combined. space/time takes up 3 spaces and 3 times, while time/space takes up the remaining 3 spaces and 3 times. In my view, if we "erase" all densities, space/time and time/space continue to exist albeit in a different form but there is still space and time.

In your view, there will be much more numbers of space and time (certainly more than 6/6). And if we "erase" all densities in your view, there will be no space, no time, no space/time and time/space because they are a part of densities.

What I can assume at this moment, is that as entities from first to third density live in the same environment, the difference is in the perception and the way in which they can interact with that environment. From the fourth onwards, the environments are different, more subtle and the bodies of the entities are also more subtle than ours. However, I have no idea if 4D entities can see 5D and 6D in the same environment as animals can see us.

I believe this is another area where our views differ. In my view, all densities share the same space and time and we can see 4d/5d/6d but in reality we cannot only because they have chosen not to (Ra 13.20). 

13.20 Questioner: Is there any physical difference between first and second density? For instance, if I could see a second-density planet and a first-density planet side by side, in my present condition, could I see both of them? Would they be both visible?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. All of the octave of your densities would be clearly visible were not the fourth through the seventh freely choosing not to be visible.

In your view, as each density has their sub sub densities of space and time, beings in different densities lives in different space/time and thus the issue of how different densities can see each other arise. But I believe there are the possible ways to deal with this issue but personally i have not thought of any.

I gave my opinion on this above. Just a detail: taking into account all the literature on the astral plane, it is a fact that on the astral plane a dimension is added. This is one of the reasons why I prefer to consider it as our fourth dimension.

I am fine with defining dimension as a sub-density and calling the astral plane the 4th dimension. However, by redefining the meaning of dimension, it is no longer the same as that of the "scientific" dimension. Thus I think contradictions arise when I see what is an attempt to combine both definitions.
I would think there will be no contradictions if the number of space and time is left ambiguous and thus a mystery and I am fine with this approach as well.

As I mentioned to claim to see the tesseract in the astral plane suggests that there are 4 dimensions of space. However, to me, this does not imply that the astral plane is the fourth dimensional in the scientific sense, nor is this "4 dimensions" identical to the 4 dimensions of your view for our definitions of dimension is different.

I believe there are other explanations that could allow one to "see" the interior of a cube - one way by invoking the concept of the Law of One, another way is that it can be done in time/space (i.e. my view of time/space being 3 space and 3 time, but which also includes the astral and inner planes).

Time in time / space is like I said spherical. I would say that it does not make sense to speak in dimensions of time, but of an eternal present.

but time in time/space seen as spherical is a pretty good image within our limited words  

I apologised as I thought Infinite was talking about it from a mechanical pov. But it looks to me that what Infinite described is more of an experiential understanding. What I tried to give was a more mechanical view of it based on my understanding. The closest experience that I had was the perception of space and time being (2D) "planar" and "radiating from the self". The 2D perception is probably my own limitation and suggests that a more complete perception might be the 3D spherical sense as both of you have mentioned.

Really enlightening chapter on fourth dimension. It's from the book "The Astral Body" by Arthur E. Powell:

It would seem his definition of dimension is more similar to mine than yours. I'm sorry to say I do not find the chapter convincing either scientifically or spiritually. He could have called the astral plane the fifth dimension and let time be the fourth dimension and it would achieve the same purpose that he wanted, the ordering is not important.

I believe time is considered as the fourth dimension only because it was formulated after the 3 spatial dimensions. If for some reason time was established first, in science, time might be called the first dimension, and space the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th dimension. The ordering is not important in the maths and science.

[keith]

just to share what i heard from this video;
we're in 3D(Dimension) earth now, will ascend to 5D(dimension). 3D,5D co-exist all the times.
in the transition process, there's a lot of fluctuation, which is 4D(Dimension)

this is the video has some diagrams which explains this clearly (in my humble opinion)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXipt-Vq...Io2R4kYmn4

Thanks for sharing the video. I find her energy somewhat overbearing and could only watch a short portion but she seems to be on to something though. I see the 3D and 5D terms in her video as convenient labels that she has chosen to use and they could just as well be called A and B without changing her message. What I mean to say is I find more meaningful to focus on her message/energy of "focusing on the positive", rather than focusing on "we are going from 3d to 5d". I keep falling into the same trap of focusing on the latter as well and am still working on it too.

[Infinite]

In my view, if we "erase" all densities, space/time and time/space continue to exist albeit in a different form but there is still space and time.

In your view, there will be much more numbers of space and time (certainly more than 6/6). And if we "erase" all densities in your view, there will be no space, no time, no space/time and time/space because they are a part of densities.

Your second statement is closer to what I believe. Because space / time and time / space is what densities are, shall we say, organized. Besides the fact that Ra said that sub-density is equal to plane. Now, if Ra says that within each density there are infinite divisions, what would those divisions be for you?

I believe this is another area where our views differ. In my view, all densities share the same space and time and we can see 4d/5d/6d but in reality we cannot only because they have chosen not to (Ra 13.20). 

13.20 Questioner: Is there any physical difference between first and second density? For instance, if I could see a second-density planet and a first-density planet side by side, in my present condition, could I see both of them? Would they be both visible?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. All of the octave of your densities would be clearly visible were not the fourth through the seventh freely choosing not to be visible.

What Ra meant was that entities other than 3D could "get thicker" and show themselves to us:

The fourth density is, by choice, not visible to third density. It is possible for fourth density to be visible. However, it is not the choice of the fourth-density entity to be visible due to the necessity for concentration upon a rather difficult vibrational complex which is the third density you experience.

(12.17)

That is, the "native" fourth density vibration is invisible to us, as it is of a higher frequency of vibration. It is the same with our inner planes.

Let me share something. In many traditions (and in the LOO itself) it is said that the microcosm is a reflection of the macrocosm. So it seems to me that the lower 3 chakras are somewhat related. In man they form the basis of what we call mundane. Thus, similarly, the first 3 densities are of the "material" or "mundane" type. The fourth density, like the heart chakra, marks the transition from the mundane to what I call "semi-spiritual" (since the upper triad begins at the throat chakra). That is exactly the nature of the astral plane, there are still forms, but in a more subtle state than in the physical. The mental plane is already a spiritual plane itself. This is one of the reasons that I believe that these first 3 densities exist in the same environment, separate from the others.

There are answers in which Ra implies that they live at other frequencies of vibration:

From the sixth dimension, we are capable of manipulating, by thought, the intelligent infinity present in each particle of light or distorted light so that we were able to clothe ourselves in a replica visible in the third densityof our mind/body/spirit complexes in the sixth density.

(6.7)

This answer suggests that the densities of Venus above the third are other ranges of vibration:

The third-density conditions are not hospitable to the life-forms of your peoples. The fifth and sixth dimensions of that planetary sphere are quite conducive to growing/learning/teaching.

(6.6)

******************************************
Speaking of the fourth density itself, in my varied studies I came to the conclusion that the fourth density is similar to what we call the astral plane. Remember that Ra said that the green ray's body is the astral body. So, 4D's environment has to be compatible with this body. Another detail is Ra's description that the fourth density is an environment where thought is used instead of mechanics (another characteristic of the astral plane):

As fourth density occurs there is a new planet and new physical vehicle system gradually expressing itself and the parameters of bellicose actions become those of thought rather than manifested weapons.

(66.31)

In some cases there is a kind of battle. This is a battle of wills and the weapons consist of the light that can be formed by each contender.

(87.16)

A curiosity is this intersting passage of "Autobiography of an Iogue" when the deceased master of Yogananda appears to him in which seems a fourth density body. He talks about an "astral planet" and a new body:

Source: http://yogananda.com.au/aoy/beyond_death_1.html

******************************************

In your view, as each density has their sub sub densities of space and time, beings in different densities lives in different space/time and thus the issue of how different densities can see each other arise. But I believe there are the possible ways to deal with this issue but personally i have not thought of any.

This is easily understood through the concept of true color. The true color green is not the same as the true color yellow. It's an octave up. So, both cannot have the same sub-octaves, because the color green is of a higher nature. In addition, Ra said that up to sixth density there is some kind of space / time and time / space:

The space/time and time/space distinctions, as you understand them, do not hold sway except in third density. However, fourth, fifth, and to some extent, sixth, work within some system of polarized space/time and time/space.

(57.33)

I am fine with defining dimension as a sub-density and calling the astral plane the 4th dimension. However, by redefining the meaning of dimension, it is no longer the same as that of the "scientific" dimension. Thus I think contradictions arise when I see what is an attempt to combine both definitions.
I would think there will be no contradictions if the number of space and time is left ambiguous and thus a mystery and I am fine with this approach as well.

Well, it could be that Leadbeater and others are wrong in that definition. But you will find most esoteric and spiritualist sources classifying the astral plane as the fourth dimension. And I think it would be scientific to call time the fourth dimension, when the term dimension refers more to space / locality.

As I mentioned to claim to see the tesseract in the astral plane suggests that there are 4 dimensions of space. However, to me, this does not imply that the astral plane is the fourth dimensional in the scientific sense, nor is this "4 dimensions" identical to the 4 dimensions of your view for our definitions of dimension is different.

I suggest forgetting the term "scientific". Our physics is still archaic in not accepting multidimensionality due to not understanding the importance of vibration. So, it is not entirely reliable.

I believe there are other explanations that could allow one to "see" the interior of a cube - one way by invoking the concept of the Law of One, another way is that it can be done in time/space (i.e. my view of time/space being 3 space and 3 time, but which also includes the astral and inner planes).

I did not understand this part.

It would seem his definition of dimension is more similar to mine than yours. I'm sorry to say I do not find the chapter convincing either scientifically or spiritually. He could have called the astral plane the fifth dimension and let time be the fourth dimension and it would achieve the same purpose that he wanted, the ordering is not important.

The importance lies precisely in the fact that in the astral plane a fourth coordinate is added.

[keith]

Your second statement is closer to what I believe. Because space / time and time / space is what densities are, shall we say, organized. Besides the fact that Ra said that sub-density is equal to plane. Now, if Ra says that within each density there are infinite divisions, what would those divisions be for you?

To me, the infinite divisions in space/time are different from the infinite divisions in time/space. Beyond this, I could only speculate that the divisions in space/time correspond to the different kinds of people we meet in the world (From the more "survival oriented" to the more "angelic" people). And the divisions in time/space correspond to the different inner planes (Based on what was mentioned in the LOO books: astral, devachanic, etc). 

What Ra meant was that entities other than 3D could "get thicker" and show themselves to us:

The fourth density is, by choice, not visible to third density. It is possible for fourth density to be visible. However, it is not the choice of the fourth-density entity to be visible due to the necessity for concentration upon a rather difficult vibrational complex which is the third density you experience.

(12.17)
That is, the "native" fourth density vibration is invisible to us, as it is of a higher frequency of vibration. It is the same with our inner planes.

I do agree that higher densities have a higher vibration. And yes I agree with you now that they will not be directly visible because of their higher vibration. What I was trying to point out previously was that because we are able to see them when they allow it, that this indicates we share the same space as them. Though this being a mechanical point, I think it is perhaps not as useful.

Let me share something. In many traditions (and in the LOO itself) it is said that the microcosm is a reflection of the macrocosm. So it seems to me that the lower 3 chakras are somewhat related. In man they form the basis of what we call mundane. Thus, similarly, the first 3 densities are of the "material" or "mundane" type. The fourth density, like the heart chakra, marks the transition from the mundane to what I call "semi-spiritual" (since the upper triad begins at the throat chakra). That is exactly the nature of the astral plane, there are still forms, but in a more subtle state than in the physical. The mental plane is already a spiritual plane itself. This is one of the reasons that I believe that these first 3 densities exist in the same environment, separate from the others.

Yes I have some knowledge of the traditional and spiritual beliefs that which you shared and agree that it is a helpful perspective and that it supports your view. Personally, I do not see such a distinction between the densities other than higher densities are of a higher vibration and find they are all equally sacred to the Creator. As such to me, for my view, the underlying structure of all densities in this octave are the same.

Speaking of the fourth density itself, in my varied studies I came to the conclusion that the fourth density is similar to what we call the astral plane. Remember that Ra said that the green ray's body is the astral body. So, 4D's environment has to be compatible with this body. Another detail is Ra's description that the fourth density is an environment where thought is used instead of mechanics (another characteristic of the astral plane):

Are you saying that the astral plane is the fourth density?

In your view, as each density has their sub sub densities of space and time, beings in different densities lives in different space/time and thus the issue of how different densities can see each other arise. But I believe there are the possible ways to deal with this issue but personally i have not thought of any.

This is easily understood through the concept of true color. The true color green is not the same as the true color yellow. It's an octave up. So, both cannot have the same sub-octaves, because the color green is of a higher nature. In addition, Ra said that up to sixth density there is some kind of space / time and time / space:

The space/time and time/space distinctions, as you understand them, do not hold sway except in third density. However, fourth, fifth, and to some extent, sixth, work within some system of polarized space/time and time/space.
(57.33)

I was looking at it through a mechanical point of view, but I find it hard to illustrate my point. But after reading what you just wrote, I believe that perhaps my way of questioning was wrong.

Regarding 57.33, my speculation is that in your view there is no space and time in 7th density, but in my view 7th density and its beings exist in all space and all time in all densites in the current octave. Both I believe are valid interpretations.

Well, it could be that Leadbeater and others are wrong in that definition. But you will find most esoteric and spiritualist sources classifying the astral plane as the fourth dimension. And I think it would be scientific to call time the fourth dimension, when the term dimension refers more to space / locality.

I would say that it is still a convenient and useful way to discuss their experiences given that science is unable to explain it. But unless there is a conclusive scientific proof, I treat it as a term for the purpose of conveying experiences.

I believe the scientific dimension does not refer to space explicitly but that is the common association. I think wiki says it better: "A temporal dimension is a dimension of time. Time is often referred to as the "fourth dimension" for this reason, but that is not to imply that it is a spatial dimension.". 

I suggest forgetting the term "scientific". Our physics is still archaic in not accepting multidimensionality due to not understanding the importance of vibration. So, it is not entirely reliable.

It is not entirely correct, but it is also responsible for many of our existing technology, and thus living here on Earth, I feel I cannot dismiss it. That is my personal view, it is not in total conflict with my view and so I did not disregard it. But I agree that we should stop discussing about the scientific aspect.

I believe there are other explanations that could allow one to "see" the interior of a cube - one way by invoking the concept of the Law of One, another way is that it can be done in time/space (i.e. my view of time/space being 3 space and 3 time, but which also includes the astral and inner planes). 

I did not understand this part.

It would seem his definition of dimension is more similar to mine than yours. I'm sorry to say I do not find the chapter convincing either scientifically or spiritually. He could have called the astral plane the fifth dimension and let time be the fourth dimension and it would achieve the same purpose that he wanted, the ordering is not important.

The importance lies precisely in the fact that in the astral plane a fourth coordinate is added.

First possible explanation:
This is based on extrapolation from my own experience rather than what Ra or Q'uo said. There was a time when I was lying on the bed that I felt that I could sense the sky outside through the roof and it made my felt quite naked and uncomfortable. What this suggest to me was that it may be possible that a properly trained entity would be able to have conscious awareness of the unity of reality and through this connection be able to observe without obstruction. We can't see the inside of a box because light does not reach the inside, but with awareness and connection with all particles within the box, we can "see" the interior.

Second possible explanation:
In my view, my interpretation of time/space is that time is the active portion and space is "fluid". An analogy is a video player but which has 3 time sliders to see all possible past/future. Because space is "fluid", one will be able to seemingly "pass" through objects and see the inside. I think an analogy is that of the no-clip mode in 3D games or 3D programs, where you can fly through walls and see the interiors. 
The description is part intuition and part interpretation from the LOO material.
I think the description of the result is the same as yours, except that there are still only 3 spatial dimensions in mine. 

[Infinite]

To me, the infinite divisions in space/time are different from the infinite divisions in time/space. Beyond this, I could only speculate that the divisions in space/time correspond to the different kinds of people we meet in the world (From the more "survival oriented" to the more "angelic" people). And the divisions in time/space correspond to the different inner planes (Based on what was mentioned in the LOO books: astral, devachanic, etc). 

So, that's exactly how I think.

What I was trying to point out previously was that because we are able to see them when they allow it, that this indicates we share the same space as them. Though this being a mechanical point, I think it is perhaps not as useful.

So, my point is: the environment and all "objects" of the fourth density exist in another range of vibration. Just like each TV channel there are different bands. Just as the astral plane exists in a different vibration range from that of our physical plane.

Yes I have some knowledge of the traditional and spiritual beliefs that which you shared and agree that it is a helpful perspective and that it supports your view. Personally, I do not see such a distinction between the densities other than higher densities are of a higher vibration and find they are all equally sacred to the Creator. As such to me, for my view, the underlying structure of all densities in this octave are the same.

I did not say that they are not sacred. I just said that its characteristics are distinct. The first three densities exist to prepare the entity for choice (to create spiritual viability). The rest of the densities are to refine this choice, even so it makes sense to exist separate from the first three.

Are you saying that the astral plane is the fourth density?

No, but that is the representation of the fourth density in our third density. The fourth density would be a kind of more complex astral plane.

It is not entirely correct, but it is also responsible for many of our existing technology, and thus living here on Earth, I feel I cannot dismiss it. That is my personal view, it is not in total conflict with my view and so I did not disregard it. But I agree that we should stop discussing about the scientific aspect.

Yes, I also see it that way. In fact, it would be interesting to research if there is any scientific "debate" about the fourth spatial dimension (tesseract) x time as the fourth dimension.

First possible explanation:
This is based on extrapolation from my own experience rather than what Ra or Q'uo said. There was a time when I was lying on the bed that I felt that I could sense the sky outside through the roof and it made my felt quite naked and uncomfortable. What this suggest to me was that it may be possible that a properly trained entity would be able to have conscious awareness of the unity of reality and through this connection be able to observe without obstruction. We can't see the inside of a box because light does not reach the inside, but with awareness and connection with all particles within the box, we can "see" the interior.

It is difficult to judge this experience. In the Leadbeater's book he talks about a clairvoyance below astral clairvoyance, etheric clairvoyance, which allows you to see through objects (like x-ray vision). However, I don't know if it's related to your experience.

Second possible explanation:
In my view, my interpretation of time/space is that time is the active portion and space is "fluid". An analogy is a video player but which has 3 time sliders to see all possible past/future. Because space is "fluid", one will be able to seemingly "pass" through objects and see the inside. I think an analogy is that of the no-clip mode in 3D games or 3D programs, where you can fly through walls and see the interiors. 
The description is part intuition and part interpretation from the LOO material.
I think the description of the result is the same as yours, except that there are still only 3 spatial dimensions in mine. 

Now I understand, although I disagree.

[keith]

To me, the infinite divisions in space/time are different from the infinite divisions in time/space. Beyond this, I could only speculate that the divisions in space/time correspond to the different kinds of people we meet in the world (From the more "survival oriented" to the more "angelic" people). And the divisions in time/space correspond to the different inner planes (Based on what was mentioned in the LOO books: astral, devachanic, etc). 

So, that's exactly how I think.

What I was trying to point out previously was that because we are able to see them when they allow it, that this indicates we share the same space as them. Though this being a mechanical point, I think it is perhaps not as useful.

So, my point is: the environment and all "objects" of the fourth density exist in another range of vibration. Just like each TV channel there are different bands. Just as the astral plane exists in a different vibration range from that of our physical plane.

Yes, I agree with you, but I think this discussion arose as our views differ on how it relates to space and time. 

I did not say that they are not sacred. I just said that its characteristics are distinct. The first three densities exist to prepare the entity for choice (to create spiritual viability). The rest of the densities are to refine this choice, even so it makes sense to exist separate from the first three.

I agree that what you said seems consistent and supports your view, but personally I do not see it as a sufficient reason, for me, to have a separation from the first three densities. It is also not required for my view.

No, but that is the representation of the fourth density in our third density. The fourth density would be a kind of more complex astral plane.

I would agree that it is a helpful way to visualize fourth density, given that we are living in third density and subjected to its various limitations. 

Yes, I also see it that way. In fact, it would be interesting to research if there is any scientific "debate" about the fourth spatial dimension (tesseract) x time as the fourth dimension.

I am sure there would be. Many scientists has agreed that there are still many things they do not understand about time. I think some scientists are trying to develop theories that exclude time as a dimension. But given that general relativity, which established time as the 4th dimension and makes gps technology possible, is still one of the important cornerstone of physics, any new theories will have to match the achievements of it.
 
I think one of the more popular theory is string theory/M-theory which models particles as one dimensional vibrating strings (sounds familiar?) instead of the conventional zero dimensional points, and which predicted that the world should have 10 or 11 dimensions. They have their own explanations of why we only observed 3 space+1 time but I find it rather unconvincing. However, it is still theoretical and they have not found any experimental proof of the theory afaik, unlike the two currently accepted theories general relativity and quantum mechanics. 

First possible explanation:
This is based on extrapolation from my own experience rather than what Ra or Q'uo said. There was a time when I was lying on the bed that I felt that I could sense the sky outside through the roof and it made my felt quite naked and uncomfortable. What this suggest to me was that it may be possible that a properly trained entity would be able to have conscious awareness of the unity of reality and through this connection be able to observe without obstruction. We can't see the inside of a box because light does not reach the inside, but with awareness and connection with all particles within the box, we can "see" the interior.

It is difficult to judge this experience. In the Leadbeater's book he talks about a clairvoyance below astral clairvoyance, etheric clairvoyance, which allows you to see through objects (like x-ray vision). However, I don't know if it's related to your experience.

I agree it is questionable how my experience might relate to Leadbeater's experience, but it is sufficient to allow me to believe that his experiences are possible. I would go with the second explanation as the more probable one though.

Second possible explanation:
In my view, my interpretation of time/space is that time is the active portion and space is "fluid". An analogy is a video player but which has 3 time sliders to see all possible past/future. Because space is "fluid", one will be able to seemingly "pass" through objects and see the inside. I think an analogy is that of the no-clip mode in 3D games or 3D programs, where you can fly through walls and see the interiors. 
The description is part intuition and part interpretation from the LOO material.
I think the description of the result is the same as yours, except that there are still only 3 spatial dimensions in mine. 

Now I understand, although I disagree.

Yes, because it is part of my view which disagree with your view. 

[Navaratna]

To me, the infinite divisions in space/time are different from the infinite divisions in time/space. Beyond this, I could only speculate that the divisions in space/time correspond to the different kinds of people we meet in the world (From the more "survival oriented" to the more "angelic" people). And the divisions in time/space correspond to the different inner planes (Based on what was mentioned in the LOO books: astral, devachanic, etc). 

So, that's exactly how I think.

What I was trying to point out previously was that because we are able to see them when they allow it, that this indicates we share the same space as them. Though this being a mechanical point, I think it is perhaps not as useful.

So, my point is: the environment and all "objects" of the fourth density exist in another range of vibration. Just like each TV channel there are different bands. Just as the astral plane exists in a different vibration range from that of our physical plane.

Yes, I agree with you, but I think this discussion arose as our views differ on how it relates to space and time. 

I did not say that they are not sacred. I just said that its characteristics are distinct. The first three densities exist to prepare the entity for choice (to create spiritual viability). The rest of the densities are to refine this choice, even so it makes sense to exist separate from the first three.

I agree that what you said seems consistent and supports your view, but personally I do not see it as a sufficient reason, for me, to have a separation from the first three densities. It is also not required for my view.

No, but that is the representation of the fourth density in our third density. The fourth density would be a kind of more complex astral plane.

I would agree that it is a helpful way to visualize fourth density, given that we are living in third density and subjected to its various limitations. 

Yes, I also see it that way. In fact, it would be interesting to research if there is any scientific "debate" about the fourth spatial dimension (tesseract) x time as the fourth dimension.

I am sure there would be. Many scientists has agreed that there are still many things they do not understand about time. I think some scientists are trying to develop theories that exclude time as a dimension. But given that general relativity, which established time as the 4th dimension and makes gps technology possible, is still one of the important cornerstone of physics, any new theories will have to match the achievements of it.
 
I think one of the more popular theory is string theory/M-theory which models particles as one dimensional vibrating strings (sounds familiar?) instead of the conventional zero dimensional points, and which predicted that the world should have 10 or 11 dimensions. They have their own explanations of why we only observed 3 space+1 time but I find it rather unconvincing. However, it is still theoretical and they have not found any experimental proof of the theory afaik, unlike the two currently accepted theories general relativity and quantum mechanics. 

First possible explanation:
This is based on extrapolation from my own experience rather than what Ra or Q'uo said. There was a time when I was lying on the bed that I felt that I could sense the sky outside through the roof and it made my felt quite naked and uncomfortable. What this suggest to me was that it may be possible that a properly trained entity would be able to have conscious awareness of the unity of reality and through this connection be able to observe without obstruction. We can't see the inside of a box because light does not reach the inside, but with awareness and connection with all particles within the box, we can "see" the interior.

It is difficult to judge this experience. In the Leadbeater's book he talks about a clairvoyance below astral clairvoyance, etheric clairvoyance, which allows you to see through objects (like x-ray vision). However, I don't know if it's related to your experience.

I agree it is questionable how my experience might relate to Leadbeater's experience, but it is sufficient to allow me to believe that his experiences are possible. I would go with the second explanation as the more probable one though.

Second possible explanation:
In my view, my interpretation of time/space is that time is the active portion and space is "fluid". An analogy is a video player but which has 3 time sliders to see all possible past/future. Because space is "fluid", one will be able to seemingly "pass" through objects and see the inside. I think an analogy is that of the no-clip mode in 3D games or 3D programs, where you can fly through walls and see the interiors. 
The description is part intuition and part interpretation from the LOO material.
I think the description of the result is the same as yours, except that there are still only 3 spatial dimensions in mine. 

Now I understand, although I disagree.

Yes, because it is part of my view which disagree with your view. 

Can you take a look at this and offer your opinion
https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...?tid=18170
I'm wondering about how little attention anyone has given this..

Maybe I should have tried to make the connection between human experience and light frequencies the focus of the topic, but I had assumed more people on this forum were familiar with the I Ching as a lunar calendar/zodiac.

It's incredible to me that it shows a relationship between days that shape biology [moon shapes tide/female mental states] and light. 49 days, 49 octaves. 64 days/DNA codons /384 days.

81 days, 81st octave.

49th octave of electromagnetic spectrum is visible human experience of ROYGBIV. The 4th density by my reasoning is green ray/anahata/hearth chakra
50th is ultravioletlight

8th density in the influence of the moon
9th is influence of the sun, and rubies mentioned in the Ra material are relevant to this density because of the way that they transmit/amplify light
[9th navaratna is ruby/sun]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_laser
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rub...ttance.svg


https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthre...?tid=18170

This also shows a yet unrelated connection between 3rd and 8th density. The tarot is an element of 3rd density, and there are 4 zodiac houses. 6 times 4 zodiac ages. 6 times [4288] a zodiac age is-- 25728 years, one precession of the equinox.

This is a missing link between intertwining the frequency of light, the passage of days, and the maximum energy of a hologram of the entire universe as it appears in an individuals mind

http://sahajayogaencyclopedia.org/index....Sahastrara

God has created fourteen levels within us. If you simply count them, then you know that there are seven chakras within us. Beside these, there are two more chakras, about which you do not talk much. They are the Chakra of Moon (Lalita) and Chakra of Sun (Shri). Then there is Hamsa Chakra. Thus, there are three more. Seven plus three makes ten. Then there are four chakras above Sahasrara. And about these chakras also I have told you: Ardha-bindu, Bindu, Valaya, and Pradakshina. These are the four. After coming to Sahaja Yoga and after your Sahasrara has opened, you have to pass through these four chakras, Ardha-bindu, Bindu, Valay, and Pradakshina. After passing through these four chakras only you can say that you have become a Sahaja yogi. And if you see from another angle, we have to cross fourteen stages in reaching up to Sahasrara. If you divide them then there are seven chakras situated on the Ida Nadi and seven on the Pingala Nadi. ... This 'fourteen' is very important in Kundalini Shashtra (science). Very important. It's a very important thing. We should fully understand that we become entitled to the blessings of Sahaja Yoga only after rising above these fourteen stages. (14th Sahasrara Day 1983)


Dearest, (in the pinda exist) the chakras of five lines, 16 lines, sixty four petals, the truly beautiful 100 petal (lotus)[Agnya?] and the beautiful thousand petal lotus [Sahasrara] and above this is a very brilliant 10,000,000 petal lotus. Above the 10 million petal lotus is a 30,000,000 petal lotus, each pericarp of which is similar to a flame. Above this is the all encompassing, eternal, undivided, independent, steady lotus – pervading all, stainless. By its will (sveccha) it causes creation and dissolution. Both the animate and inaminate are dissolved in this linga. (Kaulajnananirnaya Tantra, a Nath text)