Planes instead of Densities

[AnthroHeart]

What if there are planes such as the astral, mental, emotional, causal, and buddhic among others,
instead of there being densities?

I see other schools of thought and they generally favor different planes of existence rather than other dimensions/densities.

[upensmoke]

I feel like the word and meaning can be interchangeable, so if one says planes i tend to subconsciously think dimensions. I do the same thing with densities. when i first read about the Law of One I interpreted densities to mean dimensions and I still do.

also in Buddhist cosmology their are 3 realms of incarnations. There is the "Formless realm". The form Realm, and The desire Realm. We humans belong to the Desire Realm which can be broken down into 6 further sub-realms.
God Realm,
Asura Realm,
Human Realm,
animal Realm ,
preta Realm,
Hell Realm.

[Plenum]

What if there are planes such as the astral, mental, emotional, causal, and buddhic among others,
instead of there being densities?

planes would typically be regarded as 'sub-densities'.

"Within your great octave of existence which we share with you, there are seven octaves or densities. Within each density there are seven sub-densities. Within each sub-density, seven sub-sub-densities, and so on infinitely."

The Theosophical Schools gave the West much of the language with which to parse such experiences.  Of course, which then originated from Vedic investigations.

[anagogy]

What if there are planes such as the astral, mental, emotional, causal, and buddhic among others,
instead of there being densities?

I see other schools of thought and they generally favor different planes of existence rather than other dimensions/densities.

There are both from my perspective.  

The difference between a plane and a density is simply this: your density level is simply whatever plane of energy you have identified with and are looking at the rest of the rays from.  Every density exists in all the rays, but every density has a "dominant ray", which is the ultimate "true color" of that density.  

So, for example, since you are 3rd density, or yellow ray, you will see the rest of the rays from that yellow ray perspective.  It colors all your interpretations.  The "natural ray" that the consciousness of a 3rd density being gravitates to, is the 3rd subdensity, of the yellow ray density.  This is the middle astral plane of intelligence.  The middle astral is populated by your average joe human beings.  That is not to say they can't visit higher planes or lower planes, but that is simply where they feel most comfortable, given their patterns of consciousness.

So when you look at the physical world (i.e. red ray), you do not see "pure red ray", or pure physical, but rather, you see "3rd density physical", because you are seeing red from the vantage of yellow.  You interpret everything, including matter, in a 3rd density way.  We can't help but do it, since we identify as 3rd density beings.  

[caycegal]

Trying to understand the use of the word density. Ra seems to imply or outright state that higher consciousness is more dense but I always think of higher beings as light and ethereal.

[anagogy]

Trying to understand the use of the word density. Ra seems to imply or outright state that higher consciousness is more dense but I always think of higher beings as light and ethereal.

More dense in terms of consciousness, less dense in terms of matter. There is an inverse relationship between the two. In the higher densities there is a more concentrated presence of thought, whereas on the lower densities the consciousness is more ephemeral and insubstantial.

[AnthroHeart]

Ra said that little work is done in consciousness in the higher densities compared to 3D.
I wonder what they meant by that.

[anagogy]

Ra said that little work is done in consciousness in the higher densities compared to 3D.
I wonder what they meant by that.

Perhaps this quote will aid your understanding of what they meant:

77.15 Questioner: The specific question that I had was that it seems to me that the choice was planned to create intense polarization past third density so that experience would be intense past third density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. Given that our interpretation of your sound vibration complexes is appropriate, this is incorrect. The intensity of fourth density is that of the refining of the rough-hewn sculpture. This is, indeed, in its own way, quite intense causing the mind/body/spirit complex to move ever inward and onward in its quest for fuller expression. However, in third density the statue is forged in the fire. This is a type of intensity which is not the property of fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh densities.

[AnthroHeart]

So no more nightmares in 4D.

[caycegal]

Trying to understand the use of the word density. Ra seems to imply or outright state that higher consciousness is more dense but I always think of higher beings as light and ethereal.

More dense in terms of consciousness, less dense in terms of matter.  There is an inverse relationship between the two.  In the higher densities there is a more concentrated presence of thought, whereas on the lower densities the consciousness is more ephemeral and insubstantial.

Thanks.  I still have a question about "more concentrated presence of thought" because most spiritual teachers say we must control or stop our "thoughts" in order to align with higher spiritual vibration.  I believe there must be different uses of the work "thought" and also I wonder about whether sometimes people use the word "thought" when they mean something closer to "consciousness" or awareness.

[Monica]

There are both. Those are different things. My understanding is that Planes refer to consensual realities; ie. physical (or higher than physical) places or domains...dimensions or realms, whereas Densities refer to levels of consciousness.

[anagogy]

Thanks.  I still have a question about "more concentrated presence of thought" because most spiritual teachers say we must control or stop our "thoughts" in order to align with higher spiritual vibration.  I believe there must be different uses of the work "thought" and also I wonder about whether sometimes people use the word "thought" when they mean something closer to "consciousness" or awareness.

I will offer my understanding and clarification of that caycegal.  I perhaps didn't use the best word choice in that exchange, and you are absolutely correct that I meant something closer to awareness, rather than "thought".  Explanation:

The reason why stopping thought raises consciousness is because thought is simply the focusing of consciousness.  The "natural state" of consciousness is formless, impersonal awareness of awareness.  I call it "beingness".  Or, the "absolute".  Sometimes I call it "clear light".  It is beyond relativity, yet everything we perceive in this world is relative to *it*.  So in terms of higher and lower vibrations, it is the "highest" vibration from our relative perspective.  Everything you see, everything you can imagine, is *thought*.  Everything is a construct of thought, from physical reality to any other less tangible or conceptual reality.  All structures are thought.  So anyway, any given reality is a kind of focusing of this Beingness.  And that focus of thought is sort of like you holding a cork under the water with your hand.  When you let go of the cork, let go of thought, the cork naturally floats to the top.  That is the concept and benefit of releasing thought, you withdraw back into your natural and eternal base state of consciousness.

The other thing is that thought involves both gross and subtle levels.  What this means is there are vibrational magnitudes of thoughts.  The physical world, for example, comprises the most gross or tangible constructions of thought.  It involves a certain range of vibration.  And then you have each increasingly subtle plane of vibration (which involves the different subtle bodies).  So every time you transcend one level thought, a new and more subtle vibration is presented that you gradually begin to come to awareness and terms with.  And then, in time, that is eventually transcended as well.

But essentially, the idea is that over the course of soul evolution, your consciousness focus becomes less "specific" and more "broad" and encompassing of all that is.  Eventually, we will consciously dwell in omniscience and omnipresence (we already do subconsciously).  Density, in terms of physical matter, is simply the amount of substance presence in a given area of space, its "compactness" if you will.  But as you move to higher densities, there becomes less actual "matter" and more "energy".  So the physical forms become less "heavy".  So when I say "a more concentrated presence of thought", I mean a greater presence of awareness. It also means "a greater capacity to think and concentrate" as there is more power/will at that point.  

Words are a tricky little things.     

[AnthroHeart]

Thank you anagogy for the clarification.
Yes, getting more spiritually advanced entails greater consciousness/awareness.

It seems on Earth our 5 senses are limited into how much we can expand our consciousness.

We must use our inner senses.

I like how you say there are fine thoughts and gross thoughts (if I got that right).

I've heard that energy is fine matter, while matter is course matter.

We progress from course to fine as we evolve spiritually.

Dreams are probably a form of fine thoughts.

[anagogy]

Thank you anagogy for the clarification.
Yes, getting more spiritually advanced entails greater consciousness/awareness.

It seems on Earth our 5 senses are limited into how much we can expand our consciousness.

We must use our inner senses.

I like how you say there are fine thoughts and gross thoughts (if I got that right).

I've heard that energy is fine matter, while matter is course matter.

We progress from course to fine as we evolve spiritually.

Dreams are probably a form of fine thoughts.

That would be accurate from my perspective. What makes matter "what it is" from my perspective is the perception of it being "outside" of us. This perception is an illusion, but it is how we relate to the thoughtform called matter. If you go to sleep, your consciousness temporarily withdraws from the physical focus and enters the next vibrational threshold or plane inwards, and you then dream. A dream is just you viewing the contents of your subconscious as if it were outside of you, in 3D, in much the same way we see physical matter as being outside of us. So this would then constitute "astral matter". We just keep moving inwards with each stage of spiritual evolution until finally all coalesces again.

Matter and mind are both the same thing but where your ego is situated in relationship to them determines whether you witness them as either subject or object. Where your ego is determines what is mind and what is matter. If you go to a higher density in the physical, you still encounter physical matter, but it is more refined physical matter, so it becomes more like light energy.  

[AnthroHeart]

So our body is outside of us too?

[Verum Occultum]

So our body is outside of us too?

Within consciousness. You are the self-awareness of what you perceive. Yes, you are your computer screen. In other words, the keyboard and the computer screen are an extension of your consciousness.

[anagogy]

So our body is outside of us too?

In a manner of speaking. If you perceive yourself as "inside" a body, then that is the illusion you have attached yourself to.

[AnthroHeart]

Well our brain does have a function. We can lose awareness if something happens to our brain.

[Infinite Unity]

I agree with a lot said here. However I would like to add, that there are things that are kinda set in stone. These are the first distortions. Yes the illusion can be rearranged in any format. Thought the cornerstone or thrust is love. Love is a complex containing free will in my opinion. Thus it leads me to believe the distortions arent setup separately, but cascade from one to another. One creating another. like a perpetual energy/conscience generator

[Nau7ik]

I feel there are 'both/and' densities and planes. Q'uo talks about inner and outer planes within the densities, which I equate meaning space/time physical and time/space metaphysical. Being in first second and third density, our physical movement is limited but our metaphysical movement is not at least while discarnate. In fourth density and higher, having attained higher consciousness, movement within the entire creation becomes easier. Ra can travel the Creation by thought alone. (Makes one wonder and marvel at the Creator and Creation)

Who knows what's truly out there (or better yet, inside ?

[Manjushri]

My understanding is that they are synonymous.

16.50 Questioner: Thank you. Is it possible for you to give a small description of the conditions [in] fourth density?

Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to consider as we speak that there are no words for positively describing fourth density. We can only explain what is not and approximate what is. Beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited still until we become without words.

That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.

Approximations of positive statements: it is a plane of a type of bipedal vehicle which is much denser and more full of life; it is a plane wherein one is aware of the thoughts of other-selves; it is a plane where one is aware of the vibrations of other-selves; it is a plane of compassion and understanding of the sorrows of third density; it is a plane striving towards wisdom or light; it is a plane wherein individual differences are pronounced although automatically harmonized by group consensus.

Also, if you read 47.8 it may become more clear to you that
Astral (emotional) = 4th Density
Mental (deva) = 5th
Etheric = 6th
Buddha/Soul = 7th

[anagogy]

Well our brain does have a function. We can lose awareness if something happens to our brain.

In much the same way as your vision is distorted if your sunglasses are cracked or smudged, your consciousness will be similarly distorted if the lens of your brain is damaged. If you were communicating with someone via a computer system and the computer was damaged all input and output via that mechanism would be damaged/distorted as well. The person is not damaged in these examples, merely the machinery facilitating accurate perception/communication.

Also, if you read 47.8 it may become more clear to you that
Astral (emotional) = 4th Density
Mental (deva) = 5th
Etheric = 6th
Buddha/Soul = 7th

While this is certainly a logical conclusion to come to as a result of that section, I'm not quite sure it is so cut and dry. Afterall, Ra has also stated that there are both space/time and time/space experiences in higher densities which would seem to imply that there are definite physical experiences at those levels. They have also stated that genetic heritage continues to hold sway into fourth density, and that certain parts of our brains will have more use in the next density and so on. This seems to imply to me that there is more to it than that 4th density equals the astral world and so on (unless we drastically expand these occult words to encompass certain types of physicality as well, but generally in most occult literature these terms are used to refer to higher and higher gradations of nonphysical energy). And occasionally fourth density beings, such as the orions, physically land on our physical vibrational level, and tangibly bring 3rd density beings and probably occasionally 2nd density beings aboard their craft to experiment upon.  Also consider that there are nonphysical versions of orange and yellow ray activation at death as evidenced by the questions regarding ghosts which implies that even these rays are not wholly physical in and of themselves (though they can certainly express in the physical as we are witnessing right now). Anyway, I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong, just that I think these things are worth considering when coming to such conclusions.

I think we can agree that it is, at the very least, an interesting and fascinating topic (one of my favorite topics in the Ra material) full of interesting mental mysteries to divulge. I've always been fascinated with the different layers of vibrational consciousness that make up the mind/body/spirit complex.