Flat Earthers

[Monica]

Well, I learned something new yesterday. I learned that there are actually people who think the world is flat!!!

Yeah, no kidding! I thought it was a joke at first, but the person talking about it (on facebook) seemed to genuinely believe it, and posted a whole bunch of videos with all this 'science' supposedly 'proving' that we actually live on a flat disc, and the entire Cosmos is just a dome with pretty lights.

I wondered if this came from the fundamentalist Christians, the ones who believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old, and that God created the entire Universe just to 'show humans his glory.'

Regardless, it seems to be a rather egocentric notion...the idea that this little spec of dust is the only important place, and all else revolves around us. 

It seems so silly, especially in light of what we know from Ra, but even aside from that, what we know from science. I mean, hellllloooo, aren't we supposed to be past that?

So the intention of this thread isn't to debate whether the Earth is flat!   Hopefully we all agree on that one. (Wow! Is this a first? Something we can all agree on?   )

What I'm really wondering is: How in the world can otherwise 'normal' (not even necessarily intelligent) people fall for something like this? What are the roots of this? Are the negative elite behind it, as DISinfo, to discredit the real 'conspiracy theories'? (By 'real' I mean the ones that are actually true.)

Anyway, I found it rather amusing. I had no idea that such a movement even existed.

[Lighthead]

I mean, I don't know for sure, but this is what I believe. I think it's possible that there are a lot of people out there that just want to belong to some kind of theory. And they also have a tendency to want to belong to something different. I think that they might not be getting some kind of fulfillment that people normally do. I'm positive that they would deny this if they were told that, but sometimes those are things that are not necessarily conscious.

That's just what I believe... Either that or, THEY'RE NUTS!!!

[Nicholas]

What I'm really wondering is: How in the world can otherwise 'normal' (not even necessarily intelligent) people fall for something like this?

What if you were my daughter and I had brought you up believing a square was actually a circle and red was actually green, you would inevitably be alienated from from your class mates in school and repeatedly feel distressed at your inability to re-educate them. So I guess these folks that believe in such narratives are wholly abandoned at birth, both in terms of nurture, and nature.

What are the roots of this

   

It's a natural consequence to orange ray upbringing in my view.    

Are the negative elite behind it, as DISinfo, to discredit the real 'conspiracy theories'? (By 'real' I mean the ones that are actually true.)

I believe that negative influences are behind it, although the momentum is freely chosen by the masses that consume the garbage science. In a world of "illusion" though, how can we define what is real and true?

Anyway, I found it rather amusing. I had no idea that such a movement even existed.

Another movement that exists is the "Keep Monica at Bring4th" movement  

[indiGo33]

I came to know of existence of Flat Earth Society after my cousin was tasked with a school assignment to write them a letter arguing why their theories hold absolutely no ground in the modern world. After lurking around in their sites forums I came to conclusion that their devotion to the flat earth theory was so firm that no amount of scientific evidence would be enough to sway their opinion. I personally find no aspiration in ridiculing them for I know plenty of people who would find Ra's teachings equally ludicrous. And after all I doubt their beliefs are influencing people around them in a negative way, so the fitting course of action would be to just let them be.

[Bluebell]

i got kicked out of the facebook flattie group because they didn't like me pointing out flaws in their "science". they're really doing the flattie movement damage with such flimsy "proof".

[Monica]

I came to know of existence of Flat Earth Society after my cousin was tasked with a school assignment to write them a letter arguing why their theories hold absolutely no ground in the modern world. After lurking around in their sites forums I came to conclusion that their devotion to the flat earth theory was so firm that no amount of scientific evidence would be enough to sway their opinion. I personally find no aspiration in ridiculing them for I know plenty of people who would find Ra's teachings equally ludicrous. And after all I doubt their beliefs are influencing people around them in a negative way, so the fitting course of action would be to just let them be.

Agreed! I was just surprised that they even existed.

...

[Monica]

Another movement that exists is the "Keep Monica at Bring4th" movement  

What??? You're kidding, right? I didn't know that existed either!

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[Nuria Luz]

sniff... I didn't think it could finally come true...so long waiting...

[Jade]

The earth IS flat if you view it from a two dimensional plane.

[Matt1]

What if they are remembering middle age past lives when they thought the Earth was flat?

[Bring4th_Austin]

I came to know of existence of Flat Earth Society after my cousin was tasked with a school assignment to write them a letter arguing why their theories hold absolutely no ground in the modern world. After lurking around in their sites forums I came to conclusion that their devotion to the flat earth theory was so firm that no amount of scientific evidence would be enough to sway their opinion. I personally find no aspiration in ridiculing them for I know plenty of people who would find Ra's teachings equally ludicrous. And after all I doubt their beliefs are influencing people around them in a negative way, so the fitting course of action would be to just let them be.

This is kind of why I find it difficult to approach topics like this to begin with. It is hard to say "How can someone who seems 'normal' and rather intelligent believe in something so outrageous?" when I know that there are people who may say that about me and my own spiritual path and beliefs. I mean, there is a bit of a difference in that (so far as I know) there has been no real scientific argument that could disprove the Ra material's ultimate claims. The most that could really be said about the Ra contact is that there isn't really any hard scientific support for channeling as a method and the legitimacy behind the information that comes from it, but that is relatively easy for me to dismiss based on direct personal experience and familiarity with the context behind it. There is rather hard science to disprove flat Earth theory.

Though even if they aren't exactly the same, the majority of society would probably put me (and us) into the same category as people like flat earthers, and I do experience some anxiety and insecurity in the face of larger societal paradigms because of my beliefs. This feeling isn't something I desire to pass along to others. But how can we maintain a modicum of skepticism and objectivity without being exclusionary towards alternative beliefs? These are both things that are important to me and it's hard to reconcile them sometimes. 

[Monica]

This is kind of why I find it difficult to approach topics like this to begin with. It is hard to say "How can someone who seems 'normal' and rather intelligent believe in something so outrageous?" when I know that there are people who may say that about me and my own spiritual path and beliefs. I mean, there is a bit of a difference in that (so far as I know) there has been no real scientific argument that could disprove the Ra material's ultimate claims. The most that could really be said about the Ra contact is that there isn't really any hard scientific support for channeling as a method and the legitimacy behind the information that comes from it, but that is relatively easy for me to dismiss based on direct personal experience and familiarity with the context behind it. There is rather hard science to disprove flat Earth theory.

Though even if they aren't exactly the same, the majority of society would probably put me (and us) into the same category as people like flat earthers, and I do experience some anxiety and insecurity in the face of larger societal paradigms because of my beliefs. This feeling isn't something I desire to pass along to others. But how can we maintain a modicum of skepticism and objectivity without being exclusionary towards alternative beliefs? These are both things that are important to me and it's hard to reconcile them sometimes. 

I agree with the gist of what you're saying but I don't think it quite applies here, for the simple reason that the existence of aliens has never been disproven. Not yet proven isn't the same as already proven; ie. aliens, psychic phenomena, etc. have never been conclusively proven (according to mainstream criteria) but neither have they been disproven. Whereas, the idea of a flat Earth has been quite effectively disproven.

Granted, there are many things that could be argued. Even here, amongst supposedly somewhat like-minded people, there is wide disagreement on such topics as vaccinations, homeopathy, etc. At opposite ends of the debate, there are people who may think "how could any sane, reasonably intelligent person believe that?" while another person at the opposite end of the belief spectrum would say the same about the other person.

But generally, there is a consensus on basics like gravity and other basic scientific laws and principles. While there is much debate at the higher levels (quantum physics, etc.), on a mundane level, people generally accept the basics. Like, for example, you won't encounter much controversy over how a combustion engine works. But start talking about free energy and let the fireworks begin.

[Bluebell]

This is kind of why I find it difficult to approach topics like this to begin with. It is hard to say "How can someone who seems 'normal' and rather intelligent believe in something so outrageous?" when I know that there are people who may say that about me and my own spiritual path and beliefs. I mean, there is a bit of a difference in that (so far as I know) there has been no real scientific argument that could disprove the Ra material's ultimate claims. The most that could really be said about the Ra contact is that there isn't really any hard scientific support for channeling as a method and the legitimacy behind the information that comes from it, but that is relatively easy for me to dismiss based on direct personal experience and familiarity with the context behind it. There is rather hard science to disprove flat Earth theory.

Though even if they aren't exactly the same, the majority of society would probably put me (and us) into the same category as people like flat earthers, and I do experience some anxiety and insecurity in the face of larger societal paradigms because of my beliefs. This feeling isn't something I desire to pass along to others. But how can we maintain a modicum of skepticism and objectivity without being exclusionary towards alternative beliefs? These are both things that are important to me and it's hard to reconcile them sometimes. 

i believe that ultimately no one can prove anything completely. flat earth might well be true. that's y i tried to encourage them to find better evidence but they got rude & banned me. their belief system rests on a stack of wobbly turtles, no wonder they got pissed. i really wanted to have an depth discussion about it but oh well.

[Lighthead]

This is kind of why I find it difficult to approach topics like this to begin with. It is hard to say "How can someone who seems 'normal' and rather intelligent believe in something so outrageous?" when I know that there are people who may say that about me and my own spiritual path and beliefs. I mean, there is a bit of a difference in that (so far as I know) there has been no real scientific argument that could disprove the Ra material's ultimate claims. The most that could really be said about the Ra contact is that there isn't really any hard scientific support for channeling as a method and the legitimacy behind the information that comes from it, but that is relatively easy for me to dismiss based on direct personal experience and familiarity with the context behind it. There is rather hard science to disprove flat Earth theory.

Though even if they aren't exactly the same, the majority of society would probably put me (and us) into the same category as people like flat earthers, and I do experience some anxiety and insecurity in the face of larger societal paradigms because of my beliefs. This feeling isn't something I desire to pass along to others. But how can we maintain a modicum of skepticism and objectivity without being exclusionary towards alternative beliefs? These are both things that are important to me and it's hard to reconcile them sometimes. 

I agree with the gist of what you're saying but I don't think it quite applies here, for the simple reason that the existence of aliens has never been disproven. Not yet proven isn't the same as already proven; ie. aliens, psychic phenomena, etc. have never been conclusively proven (according to mainstream criteria) but neither have they been disproven. Whereas, the idea of a flat Earth has been quite effectively disproven.

Granted, there are many things that could be argued. Even here, amongst supposedly somewhat like-minded people, there is wide disagreement on such topics as vaccinations, homeopathy, etc. At opposite ends of the debate, there are people who may think "how could any sane, reasonably intelligent person believe that?" while another person at the opposite end of the belief spectrum would say the same about the other person.

But generally, there is a consensus on basics like gravity and other basic scientific laws and principles. While there is much debate at the higher levels (quantum physics, etc.), on a mundane level, people generally accept the basics. Like, for example, you won't encounter much controversy over how a combustion engine works. But start talking about free energy and let the fireworks begin.

It's amazing how people can distort science to make themselves believe whatever they want. I wouldn't be surprised if a flat Earth existed in another reality. Maybe that reality is where their supposed scientific proof is drawn from. It makes me think of the concept of fuzzy math.

[Monica]

It's amazing how people can distort science to make themselves believe whatever they want. I wouldn't be surprised if a flat Earth existed in another reality. Maybe that reality is where their supposed scientific proof is drawn from. It makes me think of the concept of fuzzy math.

Good point! And what is reality?

Maybe even in the same physical reality, there are multiple realities.

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[Lighthead]

It's amazing how people can distort science to make themselves believe whatever they want. I wouldn't be surprised if a flat Earth existed in another reality. Maybe that reality is where their supposed scientific proof is drawn from. It makes me think of the concept of fuzzy math.

Good point! And what is reality?  

Maybe even in the same physical reality, there are multiple realities.

...

That's what I think too. Seth spoke extensively about that. Ra spoke about it, but not that much. I wish they (Ra) would have said more on it. Multiple realities, that is.

[Monica]

That's what I think too. Seth spoke extensively about that. Ra spoke about it, but not that much. I wish they (Ra) would have said more on it. Multiple realities, that is.

Ra only spoke on topics brought up by Don.

There are a number of books about alternate realities. Even mainstream science is acknowledging the likelihood of multiple realities and studying it at prestigious universities like Harvard. You can find hard science books on the topic as well as metaphysical books claiming to teach one how to jump realities.

I find it fascinating.

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[TheFifty9Sound]

Can you really be sure the world is not flat?

I'm a novice when it comes to philosophy, but my basic understanding of Descartes is that he used his evil demon thought experiment in thinking out this problem. He concluded that there was no possible way that he could be sure that there was not an evil demon between his mind and his senses, manufacturing his entire experience of the outside world. Descartes said there was no way of proving the existence or non-existence of the demon because by default, all evidence of the world would have to come via his senses, which the demon would be manipulating. This is what led him to state that even if he was doubting his experience, the very act of doubting was at least thinking, which meant the only thing he could really be sure of was the famous "I think, therefore I am."

In this same line of thought, can we really be sure our perception of the earth is correct?

Or, another way of looking at it is that science presupposes that things will always react in the same way. We expect the sun to rise tomorrow, because it has done so every day of existence. When I drop a ball, I expect it to fall, because gravity has always pulled objects towards the earth. But does that prove that either of these will be the case tomorrow? Not at all. It just suggests there is a high probability, based on passed experience, that it will happen the same way tomorrow.

In a strange way, this means science is just a sophisticated form of superstition. "Every time I wear my Eden Hazard shirt, Chelsea win. Therefore Chelsea will always win when I wear my Eden Hazard shirt".

There is a story about a chicken who was fed by a farmer every day of his life since birth. Each day the chicken would see the farmer approaching, and inevitability he gave the chicken seed. One day the chicken saw the farmer coming and thought, "brilliant, more food", and the farmer snapped his neck.

So even if we point to scientific evidence, can we ever truly be sure of absolute truth?

[Monica]

Can you really be sure the world is not flat?

I'm a novice when it comes to philosophy, but my basic understanding of Descartes is that he used his evil demon thought experiment in thinking out this problem. He concluded that there was no possible way that he could be sure that there was not an evil demon between his mind and his senses, manufacturing his entire experience of the outside world. Descartes said there was no way of proving the existence or non-existence of the demon because by default, all evidence of the world would have to come via his senses, which the demon would be manipulating. This is what led him to state that even if he was doubting his experience, the very act of doubting was at least thinking, which meant the only thing he could really be sure of was the famous "I think, therefore I am."

In this same line of thought, can we really be sure our perception of the earth is correct?

Good points, especially in light of what we know about 3D reality being an illusion. So instead of a demon, we have this illusion:

there was no possible way that he could be sure that there was not an illusion between his mind and his senses, manufacturing his entire experience of the outside world...there was no way of proving the existence or non-existence of the illusion because by default, all evidence of the world would have to come via his senses, which the illusion would be manipulating.

[andreazzi]

Hi everyone! I must say something to you about this subject:

I came to this topic of flat earth laughing my ass off, but after a while the laughter disappeared. Now I am working really hard on convincing myself again that the earth is a "planetary sphere", but it's getting harder every day. Not saying the Earth is flat, but I'm not so sure that it's round anymore. The subject really deserves your attention. If you are really a truth seeker, DO NOT throw it away like nonsense. It is NOT! If you open your mind and do some RESEARCH you will find many things that will make you question your current paradigm.

Please remind yourselves of the first universal Hermetic principle: "The All is Mind. The Universe is Mental." We live in a mental construct, the Universe we see above us actually is and is not "there". They could be like shadows of other mental constructs, or creations, like Ra used to call them. With this in mind, how sure can one be that this framework of experience is flat or round? Is it actually there? How would we know?

Besides that, this helps explain, in my opinion, the actual Ra's unfamiliarity with concepts like Galaxies and Solar Systems. Imagine how delicate they had to be to answer Don's questions concerning a physical universe while knowing that this is all a mental construct instead of a rigid material reality in which Don thinks he dwells. How dynamic their "reality translation" had to be to transcend concepts like that without touching Don's free will of questioning. If Don had asked the direct question: "Is the Earth round?" He would probably get a direct answer, but as this round Earth theory(general relativity's premise) is the paradigm freely adopted by Don, he could not turn it inside out without Don asking for it.

We already have many clues that Einstein's Theory of General Relativity may be wrong and actually gravity does not exist as a force, but is rather an electromagnetic effect than a natural force. WHAT IF our reality paradigm is wrong? WHAT IF Nikola Tesla was right again?

I say it again: This topic deserves serious attention, don't ignore it because you have seen many CGI images of a round Earth published by NASA or seen a ship disappearing into the horizon. We must think for ourselves. RESEARCH!

[Nicholas]

Hi andreazzi.

I did have a little look a couple of years ago but found a lot of confirmation bias and muddy thinking. I then discovered Brian Cox (I think it was in the Wonders of the Universe series) explain mathematically how we can prove the shape of the earth without having to travel outside of it. If you draw a large enough triangle on a basketball or football, and then precisely measure the internal angles, you will find they add up to slightly over 180 degrees. This same process was done over the earth by plotting 3 coordinates over 3 different continents, and the results were the same. I accept this method.

I would like to challenge you, similar to the balancing exercises that Ra recommended with regards to looking at both sides of the coin. In other words you seem to have spent some time looking at one side of the coin of this debate, so if you could reset your mind, give the round earth believers the benefit of the doubt and then seek out that data, I think that would be a fair and balanced approach to the practice of clear and critical thinking.

Let me know if you are up for it!