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Distortion of free will - truth4me - 08-19-2014
After reading practically all of the transcripts on the L/L Research website, and reading about 18 sessions of the Law of One book, there is one aspect that I'm still having trouble grasping. This is the distortion of free will. The Q'uo frequently bring up their fears of infringing upon free will, and also stress the importance of this particular distortion.
To my best understanding, at any given moment there are infinite possibilities of a situation to occur, and once a choice is made, the infinite vortex of possibilities closes and another vortex begins. What really confuses me most, and yet ironically what I find I truly believe in, is that everything happens for a reason. Well, if this is true, how is there free will at all? To have every choice have a meaning, doesn't it bring about a certain aspect of predeterminism? How does free will exist simultaneously in a place where there are no mistakes?
I hope I am making sense in what I am saying, I would be more than grateful to hear your opinions!
Thank you so much
<3Chrissa
RE: Distortion of free will - Adonai One - 08-19-2014
(08-19-2014, 11:51 PM)truth4me Wrote: Well, if this is true, how is there free will at all? To have every choice have a meaning, doesn't it bring about a certain aspect of predeterminism?
No because randomness and chaos are meaningful and are not "mistakes." Refer within The Law of One and you will see Ra acknowledges randomness as a true concept.
The true fact here is that there is nothing without meaning. Somebody being in the wrong place at the wrong time is meaningful. Bad stuff happens and they can be interpreted as valid potentials that occurred and were prechosen as potentials by the Logos within the chance of many infinite potentials occurring. Random, sure, but not necessarily a mistake if embraced. There is no destiny.
In the end, only one moment can occur out of many that is truly chosen.
Additionally, I believe Ra says "there are no mistakes" in the context of there being nothing "wrong." They do not indicate random stuff does not occur.
TLDR: s*** happens.
P.S. Also, may I say the only justice is that all of this universe is returning to an eternal void (see Ra's cosmology) and everything we are attached to will be inevitably gone. That is meaning for you: Impermanence. It's all dust in the wind.
RE: Distortion of free will - xise - 08-20-2014
(08-19-2014, 11:51 PM)truth4me Wrote: To my best understanding, at any given moment there are infinite possibilities of a situation to occur, and once a choice is made, the infinite vortex of possibilities closes and another vortex begins.
All possible choices are made, and the infinite vortices remain as all choices-probability vortices play out on an infinite scale. Timelines. Infinite timelines of all possible choices.
The free will aspect is that you may navigate and consciously experience any one given timeline-path through the consciousness inside of the infinite choice-probability vortices.
To use an awesome example, just because I just got the original Star Wars DVDs like a week ago (heresy as a sci-fi lover!!), it's like you have the entire Star Wars Trilogy, but you can only watch seconds at a time by putting the DVD and hitting play and really studying any given scene. I guess to make the example complete, you'd have to have different endings on different dvds to movie to represent different choices, but hopefully you get the message.
RE: Distortion of free will - Adonai One - 08-20-2014
All possible choices are made but the ones that were made first define the next octave, in my view. Inevitably the dry erase board will be cleared (all choices made) but the drawing will remain for many more octaves even across octaves. An illusion of not all choices being made remains until all octaves complete.
In my interpretation of the Ra material, the octaves are just stuttering across time attempting to make a blackhole completely collapse on itself. When the creator still has desires for creations to fulfill, a big bang occurs before it can close all the way again. All choices will be made when all of existence is consumed by a void and the line of octaves cease, leading to a new type of creation based on infinity alone.
RE: Distortion of free will - xise - 08-20-2014
(08-20-2014, 12:10 AM)Adonai One Wrote: All possible choices are made but the ones that were made first define the next octave, in my view.
Further octaves infinitely branch from the previous Octave, thus no clearing or loss for the Creator is experienced. Nothing is lost. No possible choice is lost.
RE: Distortion of free will - Adonai One - 08-20-2014
(08-20-2014, 12:14 AM)xise Wrote:(08-20-2014, 12:10 AM)Adonai One Wrote: All possible choices are made but the ones that were made first define the next octave, in my view.
Further octaves infinitely branch from the previous Octave, thus no clearing or loss for the Creator is experienced. Nothing is lost. No possible choice is lost.
I don't disagree.
I refer to this:
Quote:28.16 ↥ Questioner: Are you saying then there are an infinite number of octaves of densities one through eight?
Ra: I am Ra. We wish to establish that we are truly humble messengers of the Law of One. We can speak to you of our experiences and our understandings and teach/learn in limited ways. However, we cannot speak in firm knowledge of all the creations. We know only that they are infinite. We assume an infinite number of octaves.
However, it has been impressed upon us by our own teachers that there is a mystery-clad unity of creation in which all consciousness periodically coalesces and again begins. Thus we can only say we assume an infinite progression though we understand it to be cyclical in nature and, as we have said, clad in mystery.
RE: Distortion of free will - kycahi - 08-20-2014
Think of our third density lives in space-time as being for experience, where every type, fortunate or unfortunate, is valid and useful. We know next to nothing in these lives, in the grand scheme of things, because knowing "too much" would prevent certain experiences from happening. Making free-will choices leads to better experiences than ones that aren't truly free-will because someone whispered a few clues.
Therefore, Ra would not give certain answers because they thought the knowledge might limit the free wills of the Three (Don, Carla, Jim), and also those of the many readers of the LOO books.
BTW, If you would like to improve living your life but still allow for sufficient free will, just meditate regularly. That gives a teeny connection to your time-space life where you know lots more than here and now.
RE: Distortion of free will - Unbound - 08-20-2014
My thoughts on free will are as such. Infinite potential being differentiated from finite kinetics. Potential and kinetic modes of infinity are established through free will which is the kinetic activity of the focus/love of the Creator upon some aspect of its infinite self seen in potential to be made kinetic.
RE: Distortion of free will - truth4me - 08-20-2014
(08-20-2014, 12:10 AM)Adonai One Wrote: All possible choices are made but the ones that were made first define the next octave, in my view. Inevitably the dry erase board will be cleared (all choices made) but the drawing will remain for many more octaves even across octaves. An illusion of not all choices being made remains until all octaves complete.
This really resonates with me in consideration of considering free will as a distortion of the one original thought. All other thoughts start from the one original creation, like maybe an example of this is when we are born as infants on Earth. We all began as a blank state, with infinite distortion and probabilities equally likely of occurring ...
Not sure. I have a lot to meditate on!
(08-20-2014, 02:25 AM)kycahi Wrote: Think of our third density lives in space-time as being for experience, where every type, fortunate or unfortunate, is valid and useful. We know next to nothing in these lives, in the grand scheme of things, because knowing "too much" would prevent certain experiences from happening. Making free-will choices leads to better experiences than ones that aren't truly free-will because someone whispered a few clues.
Therefore, Ra would not give certain answers because they thought the knowledge might limit the free wills of the Three (Don, Carla, Jim), and also those of the many readers of the LOO books.
By the way, If you would like to improve living your life but still allow for sufficient free will, just meditate regularly. That gives a teeny connection to your time-space life where you know lots more than here and now.
That is an interesting and thought provoking point. Although I do understand that it is possible to impede upon the distortion of free will, however I percieve from my interpretation of the readings that Ra is very conscientious of this.
I've very recently begun to meditate, I think I have a long way to go! It's been much harder than I expected, but I've had some exciting revelations on improving my technique. One step at a time :idea:
RE: Distortion of free will - isis - 08-20-2014
imo, freewill is an illusion. i don't believe i have it
RE: Distortion of free will - Learner - 08-20-2014
(08-19-2014, 11:51 PM)truth4me Wrote: ...
To my best understanding, at any given moment there are infinite possibilities of a situation to occur, and once a choice is made, the infinite vortex of possibilities closes and another vortex begins. What really confuses me most, and yet ironically what I find I truly believe in, is that everything happens for a reason. Well, if this is true, how is there free will at all? To have every choice have a meaning, doesn't it bring about a certain aspect of predeterminism? How does free will exist simultaneously in a place where there are no mistakes?
...
Here's my understanding: at the highest level, there is no free will -- for there is no distortion, we are going back to unity, the highest octave. So the ultimate goal is always the same, there is no choice in that, but there are infinite paths to get there -- that's where free will comes from. Every choice we make, we have potentially taken an unique step in our path. There is no mistakes for all paths lead to Rome. For example, even if you could graduate to 4D in this cycle but didn't, that's not a mistake. You just took a path that maybe longer than necessary, but you will eventually get to 4D.
RE: Distortion of free will - Rake - 08-20-2014
(08-20-2014, 11:00 AM)isis Wrote: imo, freewill is an illusion. i don't believe i have it
I agree but here's why.
All probabilities are actualized. This means everything that can happen does/has happened. We as individualized conscious beings simply shift from reality to reality where a specific probable event has occurred.
With each choice you shift to the reality where that choice was made. Other individualized portions of yourself shift to fulfill all other probabilities that can occur.
So free will? you have it as much as you with all your experiences up until this point are geared to take certain probabilities over others. Literally I feel I will only ever make the choices that I make there are no real probabilities because once I decide to put the kettle on it's done there where no other probable outcomes. It was always meant to be that way. All probabilities are experienced by individualized conscious entities that would call themselves the real YOU. They are you just an other self, experiencing other probable events.
It's a paradoxical illusion because we are exactly where we are meant to be. I feel that each individualized portion of our own consciousness is exactly where it is meant to be and as such simply can only be where it must and choose outcomes that it must from it's past experiences.
Does that make sense? The illusion of free will in my eyes is that we do indeed choose but the choice cannot be anything but the one we have chosen.
RE: Distortion of free will - isis - 08-20-2014
it makes sense to me - couldn't have worded it better myself
(08-20-2014, 11:33 AM)Rake Wrote:(08-20-2014, 11:00 AM)isis Wrote: imo, freewill is an illusion. i don't believe i have it
I agree but here's why.
All probabilities are actualized. This means everything that can happen does/has happened. We as individualized conscious beings simply shift from reality to reality where a specific probable event has occurred.
With each choice you shift to the reality where that choice was made. Other individualized portions of yourself shift to fulfill all other probabilities that can occur.
So free will? you have it as much as you with all your experiences up until this point are geared to take certain probabilities over others. Literally I feel I will only ever make the choices that I make there are no real probabilities because once I decide to put the kettle on it's done there where no other probable outcomes. It was always meant to be that way. All probabilities are experienced by individualized conscious entities that would call themselves the real YOU. They are you just an other self, experiencing other probable events.
It's a paradoxical illusion because we are exactly where we are meant to be. I feel that each individualized portion of our own consciousness is exactly where it is meant to be and as such simply can only be where it must and choose outcomes that it must from it's past experiences.
Does that make sense? The illusion of free will in my eyes is that we do indeed choose but the choice cannot be anything but the one we have chosen.
RE: Distortion of free will - Adonai One - 08-20-2014
However, the illusion of free will exists indefinitely across octaves as the universes building off one another as one being, defining its course through free will. All possibilities aren't embraced until the end of each octave.
RE: Distortion of free will - Nicholas - 08-20-2014
Hi Chrissa.
When I began seeking 13 years ago I asked the clouds in the sky. "What is real?"
It was a sincere call for help because I was very confused and felt emotional pain at the time.
These 4 words entered my mind..."Remember Everything Always Love"
That baffled me for many years until I came across tLoO last year, and then it made sense to me.
To remember all information (light) and to feel no seperation (love) is what I have personally taken from that acronym.
Quo take great care in preserving the 'ignorance' within us because they 'see' us as the infinite creator discovering itself.
To love the Creator involves the greatest of care when advising the Creator.
I would suggest that 'mistakes' are merely an admonition of our inability to see the uniqueness in all experience. A mistake to you might be a glorious choice to me?
Therefore we could see mistakes more as opportunities, That way of evaluating our free will choices, departs us from the judgement and blame that persists in clipping our 'wings' down to there 'judged' size.
The seeming paradox between causality and free will reminds me of the chicken and egg parody.
I just started rubbing my brow which means I am tired, and clueless all of a sudden!
