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What is is Oneness. - isis - 06-12-2014
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/llresearch/2014/05/06/20140506-in-the-now--qa-with-Carla-and-crew
13:00 - 35:35
Gary: Thank you, so much, Carla.
We shall move on to our first question...
It comes from isis via Bring4th. isis asks, "All is one, in potential? Or all is one - period. Or both? Or what?"
Carla: The answer is both, I think. All is one - period...that's in 6th density. We are still in potentiation in 3rd density being able to see it all as one. We are sitting here and making the choice - this is the density of choice. We still have to go through the density of love, and the density of light, before we hit 6th density - the density of unity. So, all is one in 6th density...all is one, in potential, in 3rd density...and all is one as we are able to see it...absolutely. Everybody else, have at it.
Unknown: (laughter)
Austin: Right, it's basically both but, especially here in 3rd density, we have to realize that it is mostly in potential. We can probably reach a state in meditation, or random moments, where the unity of the entire universe is revealed to us as an absolute truth, just through experience, but for almost everybody in our waking state throughout the day it's not something that is apparent and it's not obvious and as we go through our lives and do our work the idea of potential, I think, is really important. There's a couple of Ra quotes that I think were relevant to this in that it highlights the idea of potential and the role of potential in our lives and Don is basically asking about the definition of intelligent infinity and in the first quote Ra says, "There is unity. This unity is all that there is. This unity has a potential and kinetic. The potential is intelligent infinity. Tapping this potential will yield work. This work has been called by us, intelligent energy. The nature of this work is dependent upon the particular distortion of free will which in turn is the nature of a particular intelligent energy of kinetic focus of the potential of unity or that which is all." And so we are basically here, in 3rd density, to do work to get back to where 'all is one' is not just a potential...and to realize or do that, to get back to the creator, I think it's important for us to realize the difference between the potential and the kinetic as we're going through the kinetic and the complete unity all is one is the potential but we have to do the work to get there. (pause) Sorry, there was another Ra quote that might confuse things a little bit...
Carla: (laughs) I thought that was excellent, by the way.
Austin: Thank you...It's in the same session - just a couple questions later. They're trying to explain the same topic and at first it sounds a little bit contradictory but Ra goes on to explain. Ra says, "There is no difference, potential or kinetic, in unity. The basic rhythms of intelligent infinity are totally without distortion of any kind. The rhythms are clothed in mystery, for they are being itself. From this undistorted unity, however, appears a potential *in relation* to intelligent energy. In this way you may observe the term to be somewhat two-sided, one use of the term, that being as the undistorted unity, being without any kinetic or potential side. The other application of this term, which we use undifferentiatedly for lack of other terms in the sense of the vast potential tapped into by focuses of energy, we call intelligent energy." So I think, in a lot of words, Ra is basically saying both; all is one in potential...and all is one - period.
Carla: Mhm.
Jim: It kind of leads to a paradox which might be a good thing. Ra said that paradox is one of the signs of being on the spiritual path. Before there was a creation, the only type of service possible: STS...and if you consider that each of us is learning something that helps the creator to know itself then the basic way the creator learns itself is through STS. However, in a manifested state - the positive polarity - the STO polarity, seems to be the one that produces the most knowledge of the creator and the STOs value; it's the path that which is, as Ra said, but for the negative path, the STS - the path that which is not, seems to separate by beholding that position...and that concept in the mind seems to separate us but when seen from the point-of-view of the creator STS is the way to learn.
Carla: Right, right...I think the way that the path of that which is not manages to separate out love is they just skip the green ray chakra. They skip over the heart and they go from the...I have trouble counting the rays - is it the 3rd ray? They skip from the 3rd ray, yellow ray, to - you know, that's (Jim: To the blue) that's relationships - straight to the blue...right to the intellect and so for a STS entity it's all in the head. It can never be in the heart because there is no heart except as a reality. I skipped the one that pumps and beats, you know, in the flesh. There's no heart. That's all considered, by the path that which is not, a false thing - an illusion that just spoils people, and brings them down, and limits them...and to them the path of that which is not is the path that is free. Well in the intellect, I suppose, it feels freer than the heart because the heart does offer limitations. The heart offers the limitation of 'I want to serve, I want to love' and so they have to look at everybody as somebody to serve, somebody as a soul, and the path of that which is not looks at other people as can be used or those which are thought.
Gary: Jim, did you have anything more to add?
Jim: Well, that paradox to me just gives me the comfort of knowing that all is well. So whatever happens in the manifested world, with the negative over positive and the positive struggling against the negative forces, that it's all teaching the creator and it's the creator learning about itself in the smaller version of ourselves as mind/body/spirit complexes and in the larger version of the wholeness of the creator who made all things. So...all is well, whatever it looks like.
Carla: And you're saying that, basically, if it's all of STS to the creator then it would necessarily be all of STS to it's created parts?
Jim: Right.
Carla: There's the paradox.
Jim: Yeah.
Gary: You guys are blowing my mind. It's interesting that all three of you addressed basically 'what is paradox' because that's the direction my own response is going to move into and apologies in advance because I didn't get sleep last night - so I had caffeine this morning... (Carla: Hahaha, you're flyin'.) Ooh yeah...since the meditation retreat I've only had it twice, & this being the second time, and I really should stay away from it - so I'm going to try to counter my intensity of energy and bring myself back down. So...This particular topic is my favorite, you could say. It's at the center of my own path and I think it's the central mystical question at the heart of the Law of One as well - that primal paradox between the many and one or separation and unity et cetera. So I have a lot to say about it and I would like to start my own response by focusing on the the twin categories of thought between What Is and What Is Not. Ra begins the contact with L/L group in question number 7 of session 1...they say, "In truth, there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You ARE every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You ARE unity. You ARE infinity. You ARE love/light, light/love. You ARE. This is the Law of One."
So we begin with the category of What Is. What is...is unity. What is...is infinity. What is...is oneness. Not what will eventually be, or what will potentially be, because "eventually" implies time...but rather what is eternally - right now. So no matter how real the separation seems, no matter what entity you are, no matter the density, or the location, or the particular layer of the dream, no matter even what octave you're experiencing, it is always infinity - it is always one - period; there is no other way. Not only is IT always infinity but YOU ARE, always, infinity. This, to me, is what the Law of One is ultimately all about...who and what you are.
Now, to the other category of What Is Not. According to my understanding, things are not in actuality separate; things are not, ultimately, finite; there is not, in reality, manyness - it only appears that way...It only seems that way. This is why the word 'illusion' is applied and alternately this is why the word 'distortion' is applied. So how does Ra address what is not? Firstly, recall the quote that I just read from Ra. Ra makes their first mention of what is not when they say "In truth, there is NO right or wrong. There is NO polarity" and then in session 4, question 20, Ra goes on to say, "Healing occurs when a mind/body/spirit complex realizes, deep within itself, the Law of One; that is, that there is NO disharmony, NO imperfection; that all is complete and whole and perfect."
So we have pretty clear statements about "what is" and "what is not" but this is where it gets problematic, for the 3rd density seeker, because these two statements, of two categories - identifying what is and what it not - seem to represent two completely contradictory truths. They represent an absolute paradox to our mental comprehension and, as I understand these things, this paradox will not be resolved in our minds. Infinity transcends any possible category of thought that we can create. We can think as clearly and "accurately" as words and concepts will allow but it is only through going beyond identification with thought-forms, through the discipline of meditation, that the paradox is...understood...if I can use that word? It's only in the - (Carla: Grokked. The word is...) - grokked haha, way better word, thank you - it's only in the silence and the stillness of the present moment where exists an awareness - an awareness which simultaneously sees and embraces the paradox that you could describe thusly:
A.) No matter surface appearances, all things are infinite and one - right here and right now. This is it. You are looking at infinity. You are infinity...Not some other place, not some other time, not when you finish 8th density, but right now...This is infinity - you're experiencing it. and B.) There yet seems to be separation and manyness and distortion and imperfection...et cetera. There seems to be a future in which you will eventually become infinite. So these two seemingly opposite points of view are expressed when Ra says, in session 55 question 1, "The seeker seeks the One. The One is to be sought, as we have said, by the balanced and self-accepting self" - And here's the key phrase - "aware, both of its apparent distortions and its total perfection. Resting in this balanced awareness, the entity then opens the self to the universe which it is." So, right there, Ra addresses both of those two present truths: apparent distortion yet total (chuckles) perfection...and this is where, I think, we need to be careful because some seekers hear that all is infinite and they think that they can - and this is what Austin was getting at when he was talking about the work that needs to be done - some seekers hear that "all is infinite" and they think they can negate or deny &/or ignore their own work, their own lessons, and their own energetic material...and illusory though separation may be...the illusion, the idea of separation, has power. It absolutely demands and requires that we move through a process. We do our work in consciousness and we walk our disciplined path, in order to get to the other shore as it were, in order to move through the gateway and merge into the infinite creator realizing that we (chuckles) are already realized - that there never was doubt, that there never was confusion, that there never was illusion, that there never was separation, that there never was a gate to walk through. One of my favorite short statements from Ramana Maharsi is he says "illusion itself is illusory" but we have to work through that illusion to get to that point to see, and to realize, that understanding...and I think i'll stop there...
Carla: I think you're absolutely right. However, I do think that there is a certain distance that a person has to go in the bumper car ride that life is - bouncing off of other people and what they have to say and to do to us, bouncing off of them with our reactions, boom boom boom. You watch people that are very dramatic in acting out and it's very quick, you know. A bumper car ride goes very quickly and everything bumps and there are other people that things don't tend to bump and they may be closer to realizing that all is one but they may still have a very keen perception of the bumper car ride. So I am at that place of having a nervous sympathy for people who are struggling with this, and all spiritual perception - for people who haven't found their feet completely, or altogether, and I just want to help, you know, and I have no idea how but I do see the pain involved the suffering involved, in the feeling of it being a bumper car ride, and there is a lack of suffering in the realization of unity and on the other hand it takes a while for most people to get there - so they will suffer. I guess the problem with suffering doesn't come into this, though, this is basically just an intellectual question: is all one - period? or is all one in potentiation? And you're saying, 'hey, look, the deeper truth and the truth that people see when they're with it is: all is one - forget the rest, it's just illusion.' how true? how true? how true? but how hard to grasp and how hard to make your own.
Gary: I think, according to my own study, one who has awakened to that truth doesn't turn a blind eye to those still within in the dream - those still dreaming the dream. Take the Buddha, for instance, if the story is accurate...under the bodhi tree, he becomes enlightened...moves through his temptations and upon awakening from the dream looks about himself and realizes that there's suffering everywhere - life is suffering - and everybody wants happiness but they don't know how to get it so he doesn't just enter a cave and bliss out and exist an infinite being, because all is one and there's no work to do, he instead orients his life to service and decides to speak to those still within the dream and tell them that, essentially, that they are dreaming. He teachings suffering, and the end to suffering, and doesn't develop a cosmology like the Law of One offers but gives a methodology for awakening from the dream and dedicates the remainder of his incarnation towards that end - so nothing, in my own thinking, implies indifference. I mean Ra says there are fundamental teachings of all planes of existence and they start by saying that all things are one and they say that in that unity lies love, in that unity lies light, in that unity lies joy, these are the fundamental teachings of all planes of existence so that realization of oneness necessarily contains, and includes, love. I mean that sort of entity, who understands that there is no separation, that heart chakra is fully alive and well and has empathy for those within in the dream but at the same time he sees - and this is the metaphor I got from Ramana Maharsi - that awakened entity sees that the suffering is an illusion, the pain is illusion; they're just images on a screen; the fire and the movie being projected onto the screen doesn't burn the screen. What is real, ultimately, can't be threatened, or hurt or impaired, et cetera; it's the images that are participating in the suffering. Again, this isn't a call not have empathy for those within the dream but to recognize the backdrop of infinity against which all that pain seems to be happening.
Carla: That satisfies me completely.
Austin: Just a couple thoughts that Gary brought to my head...you were talking about the idea of a potential unity only comes into play when we introduce the aspect of time, and time existing, and Ra actually says at one point there is past present and future in 3rd density, responding to a question from Don about past communication from the confederation where they said there is no past and no future, but Ra is pretty clearly saying that here in 3rd density, you know, we experience past present and future - obviously it's there. And the idea that...you said that the paradox will not be solved in our minds, and I actually read something last night that I really liked that is pretty relevant. It says, "The universe does not contain paradox. Paradox exists only as the result of limited minds attempting to comprehend an unlimited universe." I thought that was really fucking awesome.
Carla: Yeah, I like that.
Gary: Anybody have anything further to add to that question? (Nope) There was another damn Ra quote I really wanted to find...Our next question comes from Andrew B. via email...
RE: What is is Oneness. - Adonai One - 06-12-2014
I find myself compelled to wonder why Ra gave us The Law of One if it was not here in third-density in actuality.
I cannot say I agree with most of this. I have no reason not to believe I am one with everything right at this moment.
If my perspective is 6th-density, then I am a 6th-density being here on Earth.
RE: What is is Oneness. - Jeremy - 06-12-2014
(06-12-2014, 04:49 AM)Adonai One Wrote: I find myself compelled to wonder why Ra gave us The Law of One if it was not here in third-density in actuality.
I cannot say I agree with most of this. I have no reason not to believe I am one with everything right at this moment.
If my perspective is 6th-density, then I am a 6th-density being here on Earth.
Because by giving the basic layout of the progression of our learning , we can have a basic undsrstanding of what to concentrate on in order to advance our spirtual pace within this particular density.
Believing and knowing are not the same. You can believe with all of your heart and head and this is great because in actuality you are but you can't realistically comprehend/experience this unity until the veil has been completely lifted and you are beyond the constraints of 3rd density.
You may have been a 6th density entity in a previous incarnation but you are anything but here. Otherwise, if you were, you'd be able to transmute your body into light or gold and do some pretty awesome stuff lol.
Perspective is limited based upon the experiences one goes through. Since you clearly aren't an actual 6th density being that has manifested himself here out of light, you're a normal person like the rest of us who is born and raised within the confines of this illusion which is where the limits of 3rd density are apparent.
Btw, it's not a bad thing to be 3D
RE: What is is Oneness. - Fastidious Emanations - 06-12-2014
Simplicity/complexity
RE: What is is Oneness. - Adonai One - 06-12-2014
Complexity is an illusion. All properties of an object can be seen as their source, even in this illusion if one simply chooses to see all as unified, valued experience.
Additionally, Jeremy, I believe and know everything is great. There is only knowledge that all is well if one values every experience given. I cannot see any other knowledge to have. What is there to attain? What is there to transcend? What is the imperfection that ails us? For I do not see it.
Third-density or sixth-density, the terms have little meaning to me. I feel I am in the now, I feel I am in the present as I will embrace all that comes.
I have yet to see how this reality is not unified. Give me an experience of purported disharmony and disunity and I only see a beautiful dynamic quality that even in hardship can be embraced in great joy.
RE: What is is Oneness. - Jeremy - 06-12-2014
But understanding was never part of this density according to Ra so I'm curious how you came to the conclusion of how you can grasp and understand to the level of a 6th density entity?
I'm not doubting you by any means brother. I'm just seeking clarification on my confusion. What you see and perceive is still heavily distorted due to the veil so attempts at coming to a compete understanding of the creation beyond the constraints of the veil, comes from full penetration which very very few have done or were able to permanently remain within such a state.
Seeing/believing/knowing within 3rd density can't equal that of a higher density entity without full penetration of the veil according to Ra. Unless you are objecting to this statement which is by all means your choice and I'd love to hear an alternate perspective if that's the case?
RE: What is is Oneness. - Adonai One - 06-12-2014
I never claim to have extraordinary and overtly-mystical understanding except an understanding that unity is within the present moment and embracing all that it is, that it can and will be.
What I see is a series of desires and beliefs that have no bearing on my understanding of unity. I need not see past any veil of physical material to know all is one.
Also, the statement about me being 6th-density is sarcastic, a joke making a comparison to the stated ideal of unity being only for 6th-density beings.
RE: What is is Oneness. - isis - 06-12-2014
All is one in potential = truth.
All is one, period, right now = deeper truth.
RE: What is is Oneness. - Adonai One - 06-12-2014
The words above speak about love. I do not believe it is mentioned how direct the link of universal love of people is directly linked with universal love for the present moment and all that it contains. When you love the present moment universally, you love all people within it universally and vice-versa. You cannot not love people completely if you love everything completely, which is essentially unity: Love of all things.
RE: What is is Oneness. - isis - 06-12-2014
(06-12-2014, 04:49 AM)Adonai One Wrote: If my perspective is 6th-density, then I am a 6th-density being here on Earth.
(06-12-2014, 02:46 PM)Adonai One Wrote: ...the statement about me being 6th-density is sarcastic, a joke making a comparison to the stated ideal of unity being only for 6th-density beings.
My thoughts exactly.
RE: What is is Oneness. - AnthroHeart - 06-12-2014
I've never felt unity before in this life. I did feel unconditional love, but not unity.
RE: What is is Oneness. - Fastidious Emanations - 06-12-2014
hidden in plain sight
RE: What is is Oneness. - Steppingfeet - 06-12-2014
Isis, wow, you followed through and transcribed. Hats off to you. I've wanted to create a thread on the question but haven't quite had the time.
Austin and I haven't read your transcript, but we were perusing and see that your personal flare extends to the art of transcription as well.
Two creative liberties we noticed:
Quote:Gary: "There was another damn Ra quote I really wanted to find..."
Was actually: "There was another Alan Watts quote I really wanted to find..."
Quote:Austin: "I thought that was really fucking awesome."
Was actually: "I thought that was really..." (Carla talked over him at that point.)
Though "f'ing" is one of the most wonderful words in English, and though we meet before every show and tune to the "one infinite f'ing Creator", rest assured it's never been used on the radio program.
GLBPS: I don't know what method you used, but ExpressScribe works great as a transcription tool for digital audio. You can create hot keys that control the playback of the audio as you type.
RE: What is is Oneness. - vervex - 06-13-2014
Thank you isis for posting this transcript, I liked reading it a lot
Although I find myself mostly in agreement, especially with the statements regarding intrinsic unity (oneness is oneness; it is only our perception of it which differs from a density of experience to another), I can't help but notice some emphasis was put on concepts like "lessons", "process" and "work". Although it is widely accepted in human culture that there is a path to follow to reach a certain level of awareness of unity, I tend to believe it is not always the most efficient and self-aware way to experience unity. It is my understanding and experience there is no work to do; in fact, all which is required is an awareness of the present moment and of the self.
Maharshi was quoted very nicely in the transcript, and I would add one of the key questions he asked himself and his students was "Who am I" - the answer to all questions about unity lay there. For these people we call "enlightened" realized there is no work, there is no path, there is just the self and the experience of this reality which is just as real as anything else, if only an abstraction of the cosmic mind. This experience is desired and what we make of it is our own. There is nothing to ascend to, there is nothing to transcend, for we are who we are. We simply forgot for a moment, to allow the experience of limitation and discover how it unfolds. Yet followers asked their gurus for a path, asked them for lessons; they were used to methods of will, you see, and still sought a user's manual to reach awareness, something they believed they had to attain, for indeed if they could not currently perceive it, it must have been something out of their grasp! And so simple methods were given, all ways to connect to the self and see what had been there all along. Those methods are optional, of course. We must not forget.
In truth, I find that it is the people who still nurture a mentality of attainment that reject the "illusion", as they call it. It is the people who live in separation who seek this peak, as they cannot currently bridge the gap between their human experience and the disembodied experience. For the ones who see everything as one, for the ones that see it is only a matter of perspective; there is no illusion, there is nowhere to ascend to. There is no work to do or absolve, there is no path to walk or reject, there are no lessons to learn or avoid. There is only the experience and what we make of it is for us to decide. We have our desires and they unfold in front of us; we choose what meaning to attribute to them. And as it's been said, there is no right or wrong choice.
RE: What is is Oneness. - Bring4th_Austin - 06-13-2014
(06-13-2014, 04:15 AM)vervex Wrote: It is my understanding and experience there is no work to do; in fact, all which is required is an awareness of the present moment and of the self.
I do believe it is true that all which is required is an awareness of the present moment and of the self. At any time, when someone opens their heart within the present moment, there is nothing left to do, no work to complete. That is enlightenment in my eyes.
However, I don't think that an intellectual understanding of this idea will yield results. Basically everyone I know, whether they understand that unity and peace are found within the moment, struggles and suffers. Many of them struggle and suffer with recurring issues, with new issues cropping up consistently. We carry with us biases, distortions, and beliefs which cause us to meet certain moments with resistance.
And simply realizing that we are suffering and then stating, "I am aware of this moment, I am aware of myself," while sometimes soothing, does not always cause the suffering to cease. Basically everyone who has read the Law of One contains the intellectual understanding that everything is one, that everything is ultimately "okay," nothing is lost and our essence lies within love and eternity. Yet simply reading the Law of One does not put someone in a state of continuous connection with the Creator. We continue to suffer, to experience catalyst and contrast.
Why is this? Why can't we just say, "all is one," and then experience complete unity? Why, if we open our hearts in one moment, are we removed in another? What is there to be done beyond accepting our intellectual understanding of being aware of the present moment?
I know I am not the only one who has, in the midst of intense catalyst, pointed my awareness to the present moment, wielded my acceptance to the suffering I was experiencing, and yet the suffering persisted. The simple appeal to unity was not enough to deliver my awareness to the love within the moment.
The idea that an intellectual understanding that all which is required of us is awareness and acceptance of the moment, and there is no work to do, does not take into account that for many (probably most) 3rd density entities, we hold deep biases and distortions which we must consciously dedicate ourselves to exploring in order to fully come to an acceptance of the moment. This is the work. The potential for unity is always there, and is always available to us. But to tap that potential and have it deliver us to that unity, we must acknowledge our catalyst, accept it, explore it, and work with it. As Ra said, "totally efficient use of catalyst upon your plane is extremely rare." An entity who is truly able to acknowledge and accept each present moment presented to them, despite outer circumstances, is one who is utilizing their catalyst with complete efficiency. No moment is not met with acceptance, no emotional charge would ever be felt, all things are transmuted into unity without effort. But I must agree with Ra, this is extremely rare. Perhaps a lucky few are doing this. For the rest of us, we have work to do before we can get there.
Quote:Maharshi was quoted very nicely in the transcript, and I would add one of the key questions he asked himself and his students was "Who am I" - the answer to all questions about unity lay there. For these people we call "enlightened" realized there is no work, there is no path, there is just the self and the experience of this reality which is just as real as anything else, if only an abstraction of the cosmic mind. This experience is desired and what we make of it is our own. There is nothing to ascend to, there is nothing to transcend, for we are who we are. We simply forgot for a moment, to allow the experience of limitation and discover how it unfolds.
I have always seen contradiction in the idea that there is nothing to ascend to. The words "we simply forgot for a moment" implies that we must then remember, and that remembering can then be seen as our ascension. I have heard the concept likened to the scenario of having sunglasses upon your head and forgetting they are there. You can proceed to tear your house apart looking for your sunglasses, only to later realize that they were with you all along. This analogy is used to describe how our "all accepting, all loving, ever-present awareness" has never been gone from us. The enlightenment that we are seeking is already within each moment we are experiencing, and our seeking of enlightenment is futile. But to say the there is no destination, that "all it takes is to realize it was there all along" is still describing a destination, a contrast and duality of awareness. At one point we are unaware of the enlightenment within the moment, and at another point we are aware of it. The destination is the point at which we are aware.
As you said, Maharshi consistently turned his questions around on the seekers who came to learn from him by asking "Who is asking the question? Ask of yourself, 'Who am I?'" But is this not work? Isn't it an activity to sit with what each moment gives us and ask ourselves "Who am I that is experiencing this? Who am I that is asking myself this?" And then, when Maharshi's students gained this intellectual understanding and grasped the tool he was offering them, why were they not then propelled to the same state as Maharshi himself? What more was there for them to do besides ask, "Who am I?"
Quote:In truth, I find that it is the people who still nurture a mentality of attainment that reject the "illusion", as they call it. It is the people who live in separation who seek this peak, as they cannot currently bridge the gap between their human experience and the disembodied experience. For the ones who see everything as one, for the ones that see it is only a matter of perspective; there is no illusion, there is nowhere to ascend to. There is no work to do or absolve, there is no path to walk or reject, there are no lessons to learn or avoid. There is only the experience and what we make of it is for us to decide. We have our desires and they unfold in front of us; we choose what meaning to attribute to them. And as it's been said, there is no right or wrong choice.
I do not agree that someone who feels there is work to do is rejecting the illusion. There is a kind of person who is aware of what each moment of existing within the illusion offers them, what catalyst is being presented to them. These people realize that what they are experiencing within the illusion is a gift to be accepted, and one which can be utilized and used as a tool to bring them closer to the balance which would allow them to truly exist within the presence of each moment. They realize that the reason they may experience the catalyst is because of something within them that is not quite in alignment with their "true self," something that is pulling their awareness away from the unity inherent in each moment. But they also realize that whatever this is within them that causes experiences catalyst within the illusion can then be worked with, played with, explored, loved and accepted, and then maybe perhaps in the next moment, when circumstances are similar, instead of experiencing the catalyst which stole their awareness from unity, their awareness will remain within unity, their hearts will be open to the moment, and the joy of truly accepting the moment is seen as the harvest of the work they have done.
RE: What is is Oneness. - Adonai One - 06-13-2014
(06-13-2014, 04:25 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: ...Suffering is no longer suffering once it is accepted and embraced. I apply this quite directly in my life. I truly feel myself without suffering.
However, I don't think that an intellectual understanding of this idea will yield results. Basically everyone I know, whether they understand that unity and peace are found within the moment, struggles and suffers. Many of them struggle and suffer with recurring issues, with new issues cropping up consistently. We carry with us biases, distortions, and beliefs which cause us to meet certain moments with resistance.
Quote:And simply realizing that we are suffering and then stating, "I am aware of this moment, I am aware of myself," while sometimes soothing, does not always cause the suffering to cease.You're not embracing the present moment if you're trying to avoid something by soothing.
Quote:Basically everyone who has read the Law of One contains the intellectual understanding that everything is one, that everything is ultimately "okay," nothing is lost and our essence lies within love and eternity. Yet simply reading the Law of One does not put someone in a state of continuous connection with the Creator. We continue to suffer, to experience catalyst and contrast.I disagree especially when it is not truly applied as I am noticing in this very thread.
Quote:Why is this? Why can't we just say, "all is one," and then experience complete unity? Why, if we open our hearts in one moment, are we removed in another? What is there to be done beyond accepting our intellectual understanding of being aware of the present moment?I can and continue to do so. There is nothing to do beyond that when the intellectual understanding is truly complete.
Quote:I know I am not the only one who has, in the midst of intense catalyst, pointed my awareness to the present moment, wielded my acceptance to the suffering I was experiencing, and yet the suffering persisted. The simple appeal to unity was not enough to deliver my awareness to the love within the moment.Avoiding suffering completely is not enjoying the present moment. It is creating more suffering.
I'll see if there is more to address.
I feel I've addressed the premises. The core here is suffering. Once suffering is seen for its truest nature, a great conviction to a desire, it simply fades. I cannot agree with your account on suffering.
All is my true self even what is perceived as "suffering."
RE: What is is Oneness. - Bring4th_Austin - 06-13-2014
Immanuel, perhaps you are one of the rare few who have found complete and efficient processing of catalyst who does not experience an emotional charge within any moment. If that is so, then obviously there is no work for you to do.
But to simply say that the reason there is disagreement is because those who disagree with you have not reached the full intellectual understanding of unity that you have is telling them that they must further their intellectual understanding of unity, i.e. "you have work to do."
RE: What is is Oneness. - Matt1 - 06-13-2014
Less words more now.
I am that moment.
RE: What is is Oneness. - Adonai One - 06-13-2014
Austin, all I am going to say is that if one convicts themselves to the path "there is work to do" in every step of the path to the ends of the universe, you're going to have a very wounded soul.
Suppressing emotions and suffering every step of the way is a step of regression, in my view.
I am not saying there is work to do. I am saying there is everything to embrace.
I cannot put it into a tangible example but literally, I am not kidding, there is a single choice to be made, "The Choice." It's not choices. It's a choice to be accepting of everything, in every moment.
The quality of it cannot be taught in a series of lessons but only in a single moment. There is no way to teach this. The material only restates the same point again and again: Oneness.
I've even put it into an equation:
![[Image: 500px-Trivialism_in_symbolic_logic.svg.png]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f0/Trivialism_in_symbolic_logic.svg/500px-Trivialism_in_symbolic_logic.svg.png)
"Given any proposition, it is a true proposition."
"Given anything, it is accepted."
Just a choice to embrace this in every moment, will cease suffering, not in tangible quality but how it is interpreted.
I'm not even saying I'm a genius, profound, a prophet. I'm saying that Ra has given a bloody answer sheet to life but people overcomplicate it.
Letting go is all that is needed. If one believes there is a certain way things must be without change, then the choice hasn't been made, in both paths. The negative will embrace nothingness when its choice has been made and at the very least it will continuously get what it asks for.
Negative polarity for those who are curious:
![[Image: 500px-Absolute_anti-trivialism_%28or_max...ic.svg.png]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1e/Absolute_anti-trivialism_%28or_maximal_logical_nihilism%29_in_symbolic_logic.svg/500px-Absolute_anti-trivialism_%28or_maximal_logical_nihilism%29_in_symbolic_logic.svg.png)
Absolute falsity and unconsciousness: "Given any proposition, it is neither a true or false proposition."
RE: What is is Oneness. - AnthroHeart - 06-13-2014
That letting go you mentioned helped me for about a second. I felt immediate release when I thought about it, before my anxieties came back.
RE: What is is Oneness. - Bring4th_Austin - 06-13-2014
(06-13-2014, 04:53 PM)Adonai One Wrote: Austin, all I am going to say that is if one convicts themselves to the path "there is work to do" in every step of the path to the ends of the universe, you're going to have a very wounded soul.
What I'm trying to point out to you is that you are essentially saying this same thing, that there is work to do.
You say, "I am not saying there is work to do. I am saying there is everything to embrace." "Just a choice to embrace this in every moment, will cease suffering, not in tangible quality but how it is interpreted." This implies that someone who does not experience unity is not embracing everything, and that there is more to embrace. That our acceptance and ability to embrace the moment must be expanded. That they exist in one state (of lack of embracing) and must move another (of full embracing). This is telling someone they must change the state they are in, in order to experience unity.
You say, "Letting go is all that is needed." This implies that for someone who is holding on, and not in a state of "letting go," they must do something, they must let go, in order to experience this unity. They must shift from a state of holding on to a state of letting go. And what then should they do if they have the desire to let go and the understanding that letting go is the answer, yet still find themselves not able to let go?
Changing, moving from one state to another, is what I consider work. The realization of unity is the potential, and moving from "not realizing unity" to "realizing unity" is the kinetic. If you do not consider it work, we are not disagreeing, we are simply at a semantic impasse.
Though I don't think the disagreement is purely semantic. You are claiming that your understanding derives from the experience of unity itself within every moment, which I'm not saying isn't true. What I am saying is that I have also experienced unity, and do so in many moments. But in other moments, I do not. The work I refer to is to understand these moments in which I do not realize unity. I understand it is there, but I do not experience it. I can then work with these moments, feel the emotions within them, embrace them, whether positive or negative. I can make the choice to explore, to nurture an acceptance, to point my will towards the desire to embrace it, and use whatever tools I have available to me to balance it. And once this is done, I do realize the unity within the moment. Typically a similar circumstance will arise in which I previously did not realize unity, and when I experience it again, I maintain my awareness of unity.
It does not happen all at once. Each moment is different and changing, and I have many biases and distortions which pull my awareness away from unity. Perhaps you do not. Most people do. And those people may work, and that work, if done properly, can yield this awareness.
RE: What is is Oneness. - AnthroHeart - 06-13-2014
Just reading this, I felt unity for a brief moment, with my mom. We are going out tomorrow, and I hadn't wanted to. But for a brief moment I felt ok with whatever choice is made.
RE: What is is Oneness. - Adonai One - 06-13-2014
The essence of my point is The Choice exists as a singular object, a single moment, the mythological enlightenment is not a myth. The Buddhist ideal doesn't begin to explain it fully. I cannot describe fully how The Choice takes place but when it does, everything seems like heaven.
Suffering is a belief, not an actual state. I cannot say more than this as I've exhausted how much I can explain this.
That's all I will proclaim: The Choice as a singular entity exists, not as choices but a choice. A red pill.
Unity will exist in all moments, always, once The Choice is made. It cannot be revoked. This is what will define the purported mystical ideal of the 4th-density.
RE: What is is Oneness. - isis - 06-14-2014
![[Image: OnenessPoemRadhaSahar.jpg]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AUXP4XYgIxE/UDU4IgGDPeI/AAAAAAAAAB4/TrVh5W4J93A/s1600/OnenessPoemRadhaSahar.jpg)
RE: What is is Oneness. - vervex - 06-14-2014
(06-13-2014, 04:25 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: I do believe it is true that all which is required is an awareness of the present moment and of the self. At any time, when someone opens their heart within the present moment, there is nothing left to do, no work to complete. That is enlightenment in my eyes.
However, I don't think that an intellectual understanding of this idea will yield results. Basically everyone I know, whether they understand that unity and peace are found within the moment, struggles and suffers. Many of them struggle and suffer with recurring issues, with new issues cropping up consistently. We carry with us biases, distortions, and beliefs which cause us to meet certain moments with resistance.
And simply realizing that we are suffering and then stating, "I am aware of this moment, I am aware of myself," while sometimes soothing, does not always cause the suffering to cease. Basically everyone who has read the Law of One contains the intellectual understanding that everything is one, that everything is ultimately "okay," nothing is lost and our essence lies within love and eternity. Yet simply reading the Law of One does not put someone in a state of continuous connection with the Creator. We continue to suffer, to experience catalyst and contrast.
Why is this? Why can't we just say, "all is one," and then experience complete unity? Why, if we open our hearts in one moment, are we removed in another? What is there to be done beyond accepting our intellectual understanding of being aware of the present moment?
I know I am not the only one who has, in the midst of intense catalyst, pointed my awareness to the present moment, wielded my acceptance to the suffering I was experiencing, and yet the suffering persisted. The simple appeal to unity was not enough to deliver my awareness to the love within the moment.
The idea that an intellectual understanding that all which is required of us is awareness and acceptance of the moment, and there is no work to do, does not take into account that for many (probably most) 3rd density entities, we hold deep biases and distortions which we must consciously dedicate ourselves to exploring in order to fully come to an acceptance of the moment. This is the work. The potential for unity is always there, and is always available to us. But to tap that potential and have it deliver us to that unity, we must acknowledge our catalyst, accept it, explore it, and work with it. As Ra said, "totally efficient use of catalyst upon your plane is extremely rare." An entity who is truly able to acknowledge and accept each present moment presented to them, despite outer circumstances, is one who is utilizing their catalyst with complete efficiency. No moment is not met with acceptance, no emotional charge would ever be felt, all things are transmuted into unity without effort. But I must agree with Ra, this is extremely rare. Perhaps a lucky few are doing this. For the rest of us, we have work to do before we can get there.
Allow me to propose an idea in response to your statements above: In the midst of a catalyst, in the midst of the human perception of disharmony and disunity we experience at times, we are always one and, therefore, there is no work to do but to accept our current state as it is. If one experiences resistance to a situation and this resistance is felt as sadness, is there something wrong, is there something to change? If one experiences resistance to a situation and that is it felt as a sudden burst of anger, is there something to fix?
I would personally argue that the ideal of a perfect state of unity and peace 24/7 is what drives people to see their emotions and resistances as problems to be fixed. I am one of those people who at times still perceive it that way, until I remind myself of a deeper truth. It is my understanding that our (negative) emotional states are merely a reflection of circumstances we struggle to accept in the moment, in our subjective experience as a human being. We come here to experience those resistances, we seemingly limit ourselves to witness how we will react to those limits. If one chooses to see in the moment that those states of resistance as perfectly acceptable, that they are great opportunities for self-discovery, then the suffering may lessen, for it is only a perception. We've been taught to perceive pain as something to change, something to falsify. What if the pain was only a marker, a guidepost towards a resistance? What if, in the midst of crying, we reached inwards and felt that joy, the gratefulness which is ever present in the face of all emotions and all experiences? Could the sadness become somewhat of a celebration? Could the suffering lessen considerably? I am grateful to be sad - the sadness may not go away as it is an emotional reaction to my attempts to accept a difficult situation, but it may no longer feel painful or unwanted.
I personally do not perceive any of this as work. I do not feel I am working towards a goal. I only seek to be myself, and I already inherently do this in every moment, even in moments of sadness and anger. Once I became conscious of this, all summits and ideals of spiritual attainment fell away. That is what I meant by "there is no work".
Quote:I have always seen contradiction in the idea that there is nothing to ascend to. The words "we simply forgot for a moment" implies that we must then remember, and that remembering can then be seen as our ascension. I have heard the concept likened to the scenario of having sunglasses upon your head and forgetting they are there. You can proceed to tear your house apart looking for your sunglasses, only to later realize that they were with you all along. This analogy is used to describe how our "all accepting, all loving, ever-present awareness" has never been gone from us. The enlightenment that we are seeking is already within each moment we are experiencing, and our seeking of enlightenment is futile. But to say the there is no destination, that "all it takes is to realize it was there all along" is still describing a destination, a contrast and duality of awareness. At one point we are unaware of the enlightenment within the moment, and at another point we are aware of it. The destination is the point at which we are aware.
Is it because one forgets that they must remember? Is it not alright to be amnesiac? Is it not what we came here for? The person who remembers their eternal nature hasn't ascended; they've merely looked at themselves and realized what they were all along, not unlike looking at one's reflection in the mirror in the morning after a night's sleep. Did they descend while they were asleep, and did they ascend when they woke up and walked to the mirror? Was their temporary experience of unconsciousness a problem to be fixed, even considering they willingly went to bed the previous night, as they do every night?
We are all enlightened, whether we are aware of it or not. Being aware is a preferable state as it allows us to perceive our world with more self-awareness, however both states are arguably perfect. One who touches this awareness will naturally gravitate towards broadening this awareness as it is most likely their preferred state of navigating the world; there is, once again, no real work to do in my honest opinion.
Quote:As you said, Maharshi consistently turned his questions around on the seekers who came to learn from him by asking "Who is asking the question? Ask of yourself, 'Who am I?'" But is this not work? Isn't it an activity to sit with what each moment gives us and ask ourselves "Who am I that is experiencing this? Who am I that is asking myself this?" And then, when Maharshi's students gained this intellectual understanding and grasped the tool he was offering them, why were they not then propelled to the same state as Maharshi himself? What more was there for them to do besides ask, "Who am I?"
I am curious of what state you are referring to. To me, it would seem Maharshi was a man quite at peace with himself who would teach the students of life who came to him the truth about their eternal self. Because he knew this truth, he could navigate reality gracefully perhaps, accepting more easily and openly catalysts which came his way; he most likely knew that ultimately, everything is well and perfect. Yet all men are subject to sadness and physical pain; even Maharshi must have encountered in his life moments more difficult than others to embrace. But when one chooses to see all as desired and satisfactory, even the moments of resistance can be met with peace. We must unlearn that pain equals undesirable suffering if we wish to truly be in alignment with source. The work you talk about is no more than de-conditioning of the mind; it is in fact, un-work.
Relevant note: Keep in mind when looking at the lives of many gurus and "enlightened masters" that you are looking at people who have often left behind their families and friends in order to live isolated from the rest of society. This does not make their experience any less valuable, however the amount of intense catalyst they experience is arguably reduced. It is in this lack of dynamic experiences and catalyst that they were in fact able to dedicate themselves to their practice. Most of us who seek to be in alignment on this forum are doing it from a place of a great societal catalyst. I would argue that we will naturally face more resistances and experience more emotions as a result. This is a blessing in disguise.
Quote:I do not agree that someone who feels there is work to do is rejecting the illusion. There is a kind of person who is aware of what each moment of existing within the illusion offers them, what catalyst is being presented to them. These people realize that what they are experiencing within the illusion is a gift to be accepted, and one which can be utilized and used as a tool to bring them closer to the balance which would allow them to truly exist within the presence of each moment. They realize that the reason they may experience the catalyst is because of something within them that is not quite in alignment with their "true self," something that is pulling their awareness away from the unity inherent in each moment. But they also realize that whatever this is within them that causes experiences catalyst within the illusion can then be worked with, played with, explored, loved and accepted, and then maybe perhaps in the next moment, when circumstances are similar, instead of experiencing the catalyst which stole their awareness from unity, their awareness will remain within unity, their hearts will be open to the moment, and the joy of truly accepting the moment is seen as the harvest of the work they have done.
Oh I believe here you misunderstood my words. When I spoke of rejecting the illusion, I was simply referring to some practitioners of spirituality that attempt to ascend to another level of existence - I did not mean to imply all spiritual people think this way.
I agree with most of what you wrote however, minus one part; nothing can "steal" one's awareness from the moment. Awareness is inherently in unity, even if it momentarily believes it is not. It is the belief that it is not in unity which must be addressed here (as the belief that pain must be escaped, changed or overcome). The keyword, as Immanuel keeps repeating all over the forums these days, is belief.
RE: What is is Oneness. - Nicholas - 06-21-2014
Oneness was hinted at in session 7, answer 7.
"It, however, constitutes a great calling which we of all creation feel and hear as if our own entities were distorted towards a great and overwhelming sorrow. It demands our service."
Regarding being 'In the Now' I am quite distorted in this regard as I know in my heart of hearts that what I am doing is not what I came to do.
When I am laying bricks at work I cant keep my mind off of The Law of One philosophy and am guilty of frequent 'unconsciousness' or auto pilot mode as I term it.
I am bang in the now on bring4th though!
As positively oriented entities though my feeling is the sensation of oneness, rather than an eloquently worded and thoughtful attempt to 'word' our way to truth, is the best answer we can give ourselves.
Did we not all groan when we were given homework as a child at some point?
The sensation I believe can be attained through the homework of the seeker, which is "disciplined meditation", backed up by listening to, and adhering to the quiet truth that springs from this discipline.
A good example I feel would be a stand up comedian who recently completed a world tour and was interviewed on an Australian program. He was question on why he wanted to be the best at what he does. He hinted at this sensation I feel by describing the fruits of a neophytes homework.
RE: What is is Oneness. - Confused - 06-26-2014
(06-12-2014, 04:49 AM)Adonai One Wrote: Gary: Jim, did you have anything more to add?
Jim: Well, that paradox to me just gives me the comfort of knowing that all is well. So whatever happens in the manifested world, with the negative over positive and the positive struggling against the negative forces, that it's all teaching the creator and it's the creator learning about itself in the smaller version of ourselves as mind/body/spirit complexes and in the larger version of the wholeness of the creator who made all things. So...all is well, whatever it looks like.
Carla: And you're saying that, basically, if it's all of STS to the creator then it would necessarily be all of STS to it's created parts?
Jim: Right.
Carla: There's the paradox.
Jim: Yeah.
In a way, reading about the underlying paradox depicted here in beautiful expression made for an inherently sad and melancholic insight.
RE: What is is Oneness. - Adonai One - 06-26-2014
I think to label STS as just receiving is something I cannot agree with at all.
RE: What is is Oneness. - Nicholas - 06-26-2014
(06-26-2014, 10:20 AM)Confused Wrote: In a way, reading about the underlying paradox depicted here in beautiful expression made for an inherently sad and melancholic insight.
Yes in unity (oneness) there lies infinity, (oneness beyond time and space) simultaneously.
What a head throbbing concept!
RE: What is is Oneness. - AnthroHeart - 06-27-2014
(06-26-2014, 04:46 PM)nio Wrote:(06-26-2014, 10:20 AM)Confused Wrote: In a way, reading about the underlying paradox depicted here in beautiful expression made for an inherently sad and melancholic insight.
Yes in unity (oneness) there lies infinity, (oneness beyond time and space) simultaneously.
What a head throbbing concept!
Infinity is inherent in pure existence. Even without knowing oneness.