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Biased view of STS...and INFINITY - Chaotikmind - 01-09-2009
Well, i'll try to express myself clearly, (if that 's not the case just let me known and i'll clarify)
I strongly feel there is a misunderstanding of STS here,
it seems that STS is always linked to something evil, which is obviously false :
The link between good/evil and positive/negative is pure human biasing, servicing the self don't necessarily make you a killer or something like that, (well, i have to admit the path is pretty dark and can easily lead to it)
I guess people like me choose that path because they are so isolated that they simply finish to take what they want since nobody is able to help/speak/understand what they live.
Let's think about that ying-yang symbol, positive and negative are always interacting, this bring in the needed dynamics for things to be alive (in a broad sense).
Do you realize that we feel the same things as STO when feeling the raw power of the source? (years ago before knowing about TLOO i used to call intelligent energy :the source)
I guess most of you never felt that, being surrounded by light for hours,
reward of a pretty long , intensive , and chaotic path for me... filled with raw power for month before the feeling fades .
SO, yes, that path is destructive, hard, an can be viewed as kind of a mini-hell from outside, i would reallly not advice one who is weak to take it, it can shred you into pieces.
Personnally i read the TLOO material finding in it something that clearly reflect my view of the world, it's obviously a very good information source (which are rare by the way),
and i just wanted to let you think about the fact you don't have to associate evilness with negative polarization, of course most of you would probably not like me if you were chatting with me in the real life, but that don't make me running all around chopping heads with an axe !
mm, a bit disorganised , if something sounds paradoxal, i'll try to re-explain my point of view/feeling about it.
RE: Biased view of STS - ayadew - 01-09-2009
Yes, you are correct. Many label it as "evil" because that is a fairly easy thing to conclude if you view your outside world. Look at fundamentalist christians for example, labeling/judging everything and placing rules for themselves to live. It's very comfortable existence. I've been there too, in some ways.
I am grateful for people that chose the path of STS. It's a much harder path, full of suffering and pain and separation.
Negatively polarized entities are necessary for us to understand free will and progress. If it weren't for them, we would have no way to understand free will.
Nothing is evil, there is nothing to fear. Accept everyone and everything, for All is one.
Do not be afraid of anything sounding paradoxal, paradoxes are a fundamental part of this density.
Nihilist paradox: If truth does not exist, the statement "truth does not exist" is a truth, thereby proving itself incorrect.
Fitch's paradox: If all truths are knowable, then all truths must in fact be known.
RE: Biased view of STS - Bring4th_Steve - 01-09-2009
Quote:I guess most of you never felt that, being surrounded by light for hours,
Lol! Man, I WISH I were surrounded by light for hours! The reality is that many of us undergo just as much exposure to negativity as we do to positivity. As Ayadew astutely pointed out, you have to know hate in order to know love. You have to know what hot means in order to know its opposite of being cold. So having STS thoughts, to me, are a byproduct of living in society. It's what we do with those thoughts that really matter. For me, when I experience something that I soon find is rooted in being STS, I look at what's going on and ask myself, "Is this who I am?" Most of the time it's not, and so I try working on expressing the opposite reaction and making that belief a part of my daily existence.
Nothing you said is any different than what I go though day-to-day in being exposed to STS activities, or even having thoughts that are STS. But I think what people are learning to focus on is moving those STS thoughts into the heart, and converting them into their opposite nature instead of acting on them in reality (provided they have chosen to polarize in STO!)
Hope that helps a bit...
Steve
RE: Biased view of STS - nshucet - 01-09-2009
(01-09-2009, 10:15 AM)Bring4th_Steve Wrote:Quote:I guess most of you never felt that, being surrounded by light for hours,
Lol! Man, I WISH I were surrounded by light for hours! The reality is that many of us undergo just as much exposure to negativity as we do to positivity. As Ayadew astutely pointed out, you have to know hate in order to know love. You have to know what hot means in order to know its opposite of being cold. So having STS thoughts, to me, are a byproduct of living in society. It's what we do with those thoughts that really matter. For me, when I experience something that I soon find is rooted in being STS, I look at what's going on and ask myself, "Is this who I am?" Most of the time it's not, and so I try working on expressing the opposite reaction and making that belief a part of my daily existence.
Nothing you said is any different than what I go though day-to-day in being exposed to STS activities, or even having thoughts that are STS. But I think what people are learning to focus on is moving those STS thoughts into the heart, and converting them into their opposite nature instead of acting on them in reality (provided they have chosen to polarize in STO!)
Hope that helps a bit...
Steve
Hello All. I am new to the site and was looking for a forum I can relate to at this moment and I believe I have found it. I am also new to the info discussed on this site, so please forgive me for any ignorance. I like what Steve said about "learning to focus on is moving those sts thoughts into the heart and converting them into thier opposite nature". This is relevant to me because I deal with a lot of STS thoughts and have to constantly check my motives and ask myself Why am i acting a certain way. I have only been living a life of positive action for the past 18 months. Prior to that I was a completely selfish person. Today I deal with negative thoughts that stem from my past and I have to constantly remember to be in STO.
I hope that seems relevant to this post. I am just happy to be able to communicate with others about my feelings.
RE: Biased view of STS - 3D Sunset - 01-09-2009
Hi all,
Just a few passing thoughts. First recall, that anyone that is not harvestable STO is, by definition primarily STS (i.e., <51% STO means =>50% STS), with the majority of the world's population probably in the range 60 - 70% STS (which, ironically is almost harvestable STO)! This also means that even those minimally harvestable STO are still 49% STS.
So we all deal regularly with our "dark side". I see in your statements, Chaotikmind, a recognition and embracing of this dark side, but would point out that the nature of your posting is a "reaching out" and a need to be accepted that is uncharacteristic of highly polarized STS individuals.
In my almost 50 years on this planet, I have had the opportunity to meet several strongly polarized STS folk. Overall, sometimes, they can be a lot of fun to be around. You just have to remember, though, that if they are ever in the situation to choose between themselves and someone else they will always choose themselves. Interestingly, when two or more of them interract, this tendency can be as easily exploited and thence they can be as easily manipulated as strongly polarized STO folk.
Ultimately, I agree that that STS probably gets too much bad PR, but it is not altogether undeserved. I also agree that they are a necessary ... dare I say ... evil? That we all need to help us choose our appropriate paths.
Finally, I want to say that I am supportive of all entities on this planet that are working to graduate in the Harvest, both STS and STO. The saddest part to me are the majority of souls that will be sent back to 3D school when this life is done.
3D Sunset
RE: Biased view of STS - Monica - 01-09-2009
(01-09-2009, 06:07 AM)Chaotikmind Wrote: Well, i'll try to express myself clearly, (if that 's not the case just let me known and i'll clarify)
I strongly feel there is a misunderstanding of STS here,
it seems that STS is always linked to something evil, which is obviously false :
The link between good/evil and positive/negative is pure human biasing, servicing the self don't necessarily make you a killer or something like that, (well, i have to admit the path is pretty dark and can easily lead to it)
I guess people like me choose that path because they are so isolated that they simply finish to take what they want since nobody is able to help/speak/understand what they live.
Let's think about that ying-yang symbol, positive and negative are always interacting, this bring in the needed dynamics for things to be alive (in a broad sense).
Do you realize that we feel the same things as STO when feeling the raw power of the source? (years ago before knowing about TLOO i used to call intelligent energy :the source)
I guess most of you never felt that, being surrounded by light for hours,
reward of a pretty long , intensive , and chaotic path for me... filled with raw power for month before the feeling fades .
SO, yes, that path is destructive, hard, an can be viewed as kind of a mini-hell from outside, i would reallly not advice one who is weak to take it, it can shred you into pieces.
Personnally i read the TLOO material finding in it something that clearly reflect my view of the world, it's obviously a very good information source (which are rare by the way),
and i just wanted to let you think about the fact you don't have to associate evilness with negative polarization, of course most of you would probably not like me if you were chatting with me in the real life, but that don't make me running all around chopping heads with an axe !
mm, a bit disorganised , if something sounds paradoxal, i'll try to re-explain my point of view/feeling about it.
Hi Chaotikmind!
Thank you for your comments and for your service!
I agree with ayadew's and Steve's comments, and would add a few thoughts for your consideration:
Many religions view the 'dark path' as evil. What amazed me about the LOO was that the dark path was seen as a valid path - the STS entities serve the One Infinite Creator just as the STO entities do. STS entities provide a very valuable service, and I think you will find that most of the participants here do show appreciation for that service.
I also agree that STS entities should not be automatically assumed 'evil' in the classic sense 'violent.'
I have concluded that many people who have committed acts of violent, even heinous acts, have not necessarily polarized to STS. Sometimes they just had a rotten childhood and are in need of healing. For those entities, a strong dose of love can often result in a complete turnaround and an open heart.
Conversely, many entities who have definitely chosen the STS path aren't violent at all. But they are often characterized by their quest for domination and control of others. Many may even appear quite ordinary, even altruistic, on the surface, but there is no way any of us can discern their true motivation.
As Ra said about historic politicians and warlords: some were of mixed polarity, and their motivation did not always seem congruous with their actions. A classic example is Hitler, who is always assumed to be negatively polarized to the degree of being harvestable to STS; yet, although decidedly of STS leanings, his soul was actually a very confused mixed polarity.
That's one of the (many) things that blew my mind when I read the LOO. Preconceived ideas about good and evil were found to be shallow and naive, and replaced by a view that truly does seem to come from a higher consciousness - those dwelling in a density in which good and evil have reconciled - a density in which there is no longer any polarity.
Your words remind me a lot of a friend of mine. She too has traversed some dark places, and has claimed to identify with the dark path to some degree (though, to be fair, she does not think in terms of STS and STO, so I really cannot speak for her...I don't really know how she views herself). Yet, I have a difficult time thinking of her as STS because she has always been kind, compassionate, considerate, and loving towards me.
Early in the friendship, I made the decision to not judge her. It was not my place to do so. I had actually told her that she could choose the path of Light, and she then told me that she didn't want me to try to 'fix' her.
So I released all efforts to 'evangelize' to her about the STO path. She is progressing on her own path and it is none of my concern whether it is STS or STO. There is no way I can possibly judge her path. It is hers.
Upon knowing her and seeing the love in her, I realized why Ra offers the percentages in determining the polarity. We are ALL of mixed polarity! The only difference is the ratio.
I suspect that some entities who consciously think they are on an STO path might actually be on an STS path, and vice versa. So, to an observer, it can be difficult or impossible to tell, and even to the person as well. It's all about choice, and honesty with the self. I think this is why Ra recommended that we utilize a study of self such as Tarot, Kabbalah, or Astrology - these studies help us to see deeply into our own motivations and clarify our path.
If you truly are on the STS path, then I thank you for your service! You won't be judged here.
Having said all that, however, I think it is important to acknowledge that the LOO itself, as well as the subsequent channelings of the Q'uo material, and really anything coming out of L/L Research, is indeed biased to STO.
In fact, our own Logos is biased to STO!
Ra and Q'uo have both made this very clear. I'm not finding the exact reading right now (can anyone help?) but, to paraphrase, it was something like "Both paths are valid. The dark path is a difficult and bloody path. We are NOT those. We are of the radiant path."
So, the LOO is indeed biased. They have answered the call of those who are seeking the STO path. Other entities - those of the STS persuasion, do their own work in answering the call of STS entities. Assistance is available to all.
Because of this bias, the discussions here will tend to reflect that.
Love and Light to you on your path!
(Edit) I cross-posted with 3D Sunset - whose comments I agree with as well.
PS. I invite you to check out the Q'uo transcripts.
RE: Biased view of STS - Chaotikmind - 01-09-2009
Mmmm interresting answers,
lot of things to say about those,
i'll try to quote in reverse order for sake of clarity
Quote:Conversely, many entities who have definitely chosen the STS path aren't violent at all. But they are often characterized by their quest for domination and control of others.Whatever the path intelligence is a prerequisite,i was quite obsessed by control before , and realized it was more interresting to turn that into something more constructive for the mind, like understanding the inner self, control is a efficient way to learn , and the best thing about it is it ultimately learn you to control/stop control (on ourselves i mean) which by the way is a prerequisite to any good meditation/magical activity.
My point here is i clearly think most people that exert control to others, do it in a meaningless/useless way.
Quote:Your words remind me a lot of a friend of mine. She too has traversed some dark places, and has claimed to identify with the dark path to some degreeReminds me about my soul-mate,but i turned away from her, she's lost in vanity and stagnating on her path, i hate wasting time, maybe i'll see her in another life ...
At least i learned you can't choose for others, whatever the way you do it, it's vowed to failure.
As you say no point to judge ones path, but i really hate seeing all those people simply wasting time.
Quote:I suspect that some entities who consciously think they are on an STO path might actually be on an STS path, and vice versa. So, to an observer, it can be difficult or impossible to tell, and even to the person as wellVery interresting thought, i can guess it was a kind of "pointer" sent to me, but i'm clearly self dedicated , i have really no doubt about that.
Quote: I think it is important to acknowledge that the LOO itself, as well as the subsequent channelings of the Q'uo material, and really anything coming out of L/L Research, is indeed biased to STOMaybe you will laugh, but i forgot to see the LOO that way, i was much appealed by the meaning/concept, and i missed the obvious.
Quote:The dark path is a difficult and bloody pathNothing could be more true. I don't known if you're aware of that but the short path (occult buddism) really sounds like STS.
and it was deemed very dangerous, most people attempting it becoming mad, "eaten" by their demon.
Thus, if you survive that, the reward is quasi-instantaneous, your life changes radically, and if you're inclined to it raw powers awaits.
(very difficult to control since the mind is not prepared to that, and ironically it brings in a second "evil" wave)
Quote:Other entities - those of the STS persuasion, do their own work in answering the call of STS entitiesi had the opportunity to be contacted once, on purpose, and i hardly rejected the contact, that F... entity nearly sucked out every bit of vital energy i had, powerful STS contact, nearly destroyed me.
result : 3 month of recovery. and some new material to digest for the mind of course. No way i'll fall again under that kind of control, even i have to follow the full path alone.
Quote: I see in your statements, Chaotikmind, a recognition and embracing of this dark side, but would point out that the nature of your posting is a "reaching out" and a need to be accepted that is uncharacteristic of highly polarized STS individuals.
Sure , and i clearly can explain why, i'm in a phase of rest, let's say a phase with far more quietness (at least quietness from the outside), and it's quite boring never to talk with anyone, i mean it's maybe ten years i did not have a conversation on that kind of subject, as i stated before i really hate beings surrounded by those creepy things some calls human, i was thinking we had a brain in gift when coming down here ? So what ? most people lost it ? error in deliveries ?
So i'm here, at least i can speak with some intelligent people, that don't force me to agree to the main viewpoint of the place.
Quote:The saddest part to me are the majority of souls that will be sent back to 3D school when this life is done.I just said what i think about those, most people just seems to have useless/wasted life.
Oh yeah i forgot : it's dangerous to learn, you could end up knowing something !
Quote:You have to know what hot means in order to know its opposite of being coldObviously.
Quote:So having STS thoughts, to me, are a byproduct of living in societyyou're mainly responsible for your thoughts, a bit easy to accuse society no ?
Quote:and ask myself, "Is this who I am?" Most of the time it's not, and so I try working on expressing the opposite reaction and making that belief a part of my daily existence.Diving into the darkness of the mind enable one to understand, you cannot let it go/integrate something that you simply balance that way, that don't rule out the problem (if you feel it's one) but merely mask it.
Quote:Negatively polarized entities are necessary for us to understand free will and progressParts of the dynamics i guess, but i don't remember to even asked myself the question about free will, that plugin was already provided probably.
Quote:Finally, I want to say that I am supportive of all entities on this planet
As a final thought yes i'ts good there is some evolution going on but i can't really say i'm supportive but to myself.
RE: Biased view of STS - Monica - 01-09-2009
(01-09-2009, 09:47 PM)Chaotikmind Wrote: As a final thought yes i'ts good there is some evolution going on but i can't really say i'm supportive but to myself.
Hmmmm....being that we're going to be mostly talking about serving others, I am curious what attracted you to this forum.
Do you have anything in particular you wish to learn from us, or experience while you're here?
RE: Biased view of STS - Chaotikmind - 01-10-2009
Curiosity mostly.
But i'm interrested by those of you who have good magical abilities, i'm always eager to learn new knowledge in that regards.
It's always instructive to see things from more point of view at the same time "to spot the real thing" since magical matters are often very difficult/blurry, it's often vague , effect are rarely instantaneous, limiting the feedback loop needed for learning.
RE: Biased view of STS - ayadew - 01-10-2009
You are on a good path to true STS Chaotikmind with all this "learning", I have been experimenting with such for a long time also. We all have different preferenses. I also inherently like the idea of controlling others since I am not 100% STO oriented. But I have settled on the path of STO, which this forum is centered on. Everything you do is reflected upon yourself, for One Is All. So why not love and accept everyone.
Please be aware of what Q'uo said:
Quote:There is a certain amount of time available to your people; a certain number of heartbeats between birth and death. If an entity takes the self too seriously, an entity can attempt to use every minute of every day for the entire lifetime in a positive, constructive, useful way. This attitude, while commendable, results in an incarnation that is dry and arid, emotionally.
"Meaningless" is subjective. "Constructive" is subjective.
That is the nature of the 3rd density illusion.
It might be true that many people live their life "wasted", but they are simply stuck in the miasma of indifference. There shall be a time when they awaken. There shall be a time when the tiniest part of infinity awakens.
I try to see nothing as wasted.
All moments contains love. Extract the love from it and contribute.
If you chose the path of STS I will be eternally grateful to you. It's something I cannot do.
Peace and love to you.
RE: Biased view of STS - artichoke - 01-19-2009
Chaotikmind thanks for reminding me of some of the earlier experiences I had in this lifetime with chi, or martial arts type thinking. It's a dance worth knowing, and I think I know enough of it.
I find in the struggles of business life in America, where I live and work, that one often encounters those skilled in those games. It's a fact of life and I chose to come here, so even though it tires me out quite often and I wonder why I don't move to a nicer place, this is where I'm supposed to be. Part of my mission must be to teach people like you the limits of STS approaches. It has to be, because otherwise I would be a doormat, and I am not. So I must win and I do, by knowing the tricks and thinking a step or further ahead. Of course you are not to know I did that, not even afterwards. I don't value that you should know what hit you.
It's tiring, but I find that my life energy is replenished and my body is healthy. There is no contradiction between this activity and other STO activities, because in both cases one can do the appropriate thing, to give back to each what they should have. There's more work to do. You may have the opportunity to fight me some day. I'm not going to thank you for anything because I believe it's my job to keep light flowing, and not just to you.
Question for ChaoticMind - 3D Sunset - 01-28-2009
Ever since encountering references to Dewey B. Larson in the LOO, I've been a student, of sorts, of his reciprocal system of theory (RST). My latest investigations thereof have been in his discussion on metaphysics, called "Beyond Space and Time", and this study begged a question that I'd like to ask you, as a follower of the STS philosophy.
Without going into the other interesting aspects of this work, in chapter 18, he explores the concepts of Right and Wrong, and asserts that the definition of “right” is "in conformity with the laws and principles of Sector 3..." where "Sector 3" is that control aspect over human beings, which exists outside the physical universe, that makes us human (in LOO terms, 3rd Density). By his assertion, this includes a code of ethics or morality which are intuitively obtained from our Sector 3 control source.
He goes on to exclude a lot of religious dogma that is human extrapolations or additions thereto, but winds up concluding that the Golden Rule ("Do unto others as you would have them do unto you") is an example of just such a universal intuitive ethical or moral rule.
Thus comes my question. It seemed to me that either Mr. Larson somehow excluded the existence of STS which may well act according to different intuitively obtained rules, or perhaps, there is a different interpretation of the Golden Rule that had never occurred to me before.
The new interpretation of this rule for STS entities being, "that the 'strong' should exert their will over the 'weak'" and whomever is the 'strongest' has as a moral directive to do so. So, were you to encounter someone of stronger will than yourself (something that I expect is contrary to your nature to concede exists), then you would indeed want them to dominate you. Or perhaps a more clear way to put it is when considering the interaction of two other-selves, wherein you would want the stronger to dominate the weaker.
Forgive me if the question seems silly, but I'm just trying to better understand your perspective and how it might fit into RST.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
3D Sunset
RE: Question for ChaotikMind - Chaotikmind - 01-31-2009
Quote:Without going into the other interesting aspects of this work, in chapter 18, he explores the concepts of Right and Wrong, and asserts that the definition of “right” is "in conformity with the laws and principles of Sector 3..." where "Sector 3" is that control aspect over human beings, which exists outside the physical universe, that makes us human (in LOO terms, 3rd Density). By his assertion, this includes a code of ethics or morality which are intuitively obtained from our Sector 3 control source.
The LOO brought my attention on that work, i clearly need to read it completly, seems really interresting from what i already read.
Quote:He goes on to exclude a lot of religious dogma that is human extrapolations or additions thereto, but winds up concluding that the Golden Rule ("Do unto others as you would have them do unto you") is an example of just such a universal intuitive ethical or moral rule.
I would not state it like that, see below.
Quote:Thus comes my question. It seemed to me that either Mr. Larson somehow excluded the existence of STS which may well act according to different intuitively obtained rules, or perhaps, there is a different interpretation of the Golden Rule that had never occurred to me before.
The new interpretation of this rule for STS entities being, "that the 'strong' should exert there will over the 'weak'" and whomever is the 'strongest' has as a moral directive to do so. So, were you to encounter someone of stronger will than yourself (something that I expect is contrary to your nature to concede exists), then you would indeed want them to dominate you. Or perhaps a more clear way to put it is when considering the interaction of two other-selves, wherein you would want the stronger to dominate the weaker.
I don't see it with rules as simple as this, but simple things are often misunderstood in life, maybe i need to think about it more.
One attract what he fears because he's not controlling his mind, he focus on the fear, strenghtening it, instead of focusing on what he really wants, thus effectively giving power to the other self.
Your question is not silly IMO, but i can't make a short answer, nor can i give an absolute one (even if i often eradicate what is called doubt).
I guess i have first to compare my vision of STS with yours, otherwise my explanations would be pointless.
Those peoples you often see as having STS activities, who are dominating, controlling, lying, manipulating, etc etc are simply ants .
They are Perverted by the path, they are not in a spiritual quest.
Have a look to those pathetic satanist for example, evil maybe, STS surely not.
We could say the same for someone who is more STO , who is nice with ppl etc etc, maybe he is a nice person , but maybe he is still not on a spiritual path.
That lead to the awareness one have , if you're only helping ppl without thinking, you're probably not helping that much, you could even be completely wrong (like someone who think he helps by giving food, but create dependance from another being), for an STS orientated being it's the same , if you trying to use your power outside it needs to be with a spiritual goal, controlling people to just have a sense of power is plainly ridiculous, pointless.
As i said, a pervertion of the mind, the control and the domination need to be pointed to the inner self where they are usefull to learn uncontrol and spirituality,
i could also compare that with noise , you can make noise outside just bothering others, and you can make noise inside just bothering yourself and leading you to a greater spiritual state (could sound very paradoxal but works very well in practice if you are able to generate enough with your mind, there is a threshold beyond which mind stop suddenly)
Back to your statement :
-Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
Let's rephrase it with less distortion :
-Each action bring a reaction.
So now for one who is able to ask himself the question it looks more like that:
Are you really willing to bear the reaction from that action ?
Is it Usefull for me ?
Can i learn something from it?
For myself if the answer is no , i just don't do it and go away. Period.
Related to what i said above i really want to stress people to think about actions and intent.
For example i never lie, because liying is pointless , weak people need to lie, now do it makes me more STO ? no because the intent is not "i don't lie because that's bad", truth bring a lot of power indeed.
The same could be said about something which look really bad from outside, let's take an imaginary example : "I steal the only money someone have because he's lazy and really do nothing to help himself, and i put him in a really bad situation to force him to react"
in that case the action was bad on purpose, but the intent was good .
Both example were not carefully choosen but i think it can get one on track with my thinkings.
Things are not always what they seems.
In the end You could take someone who is really evil as a pure STS being, but maybe he's
I think your question is really interresting, because we are back on track with the topic also.
This is the only LOO part that don't resonate in my self(some points of view of Ra/QUO's about STS i mean)
Btw , i would be losing time if i was interacting so much with my surrounding, controlling, dominating etc, uses energy, far better to keep it for something else more interresting.
mmm i was a bit out of subject maybe.
Was It clear ? (my english need to be trained a bit)
RE: Biased view of STS - ayadew - 02-02-2009
STS and STO is almost the same thing in my eyes, except STS people want awareness of everything for his individual part of the infitine, and STO people wish it for all individual parts of the infinite and is willing to sacrifice his own indivdual part for that purpose. Everything else we can define in this density are distortions, such things you speak of. Subjectivity.
Peace and love.
RE: Biased view of STS - 3D Sunset - 02-02-2009
Chaotikmind Wrote:mmm i was a bit out of subject maybe.
Was It clear ? (my english need to be trained a bit)
Clear enough, yes. Thank you for you reply. I need to digest it a little bit before I can comment further. more to come....
Best regards (not sure if "Love and Light" might be offensive),
3D Sunset
RE: Biased view of STS - Thorne - 02-07-2009
Quote:Conversely, many entities who have definitely chosen the STS path aren't violent at all. But they are often characterized by their quest for domination and control of others. Many may even appear quite ordinary, even altruistic, on the surface, but there is no way any of us can discern their true motivation.
I've met a few people who were very negative in polarity, but this one time i got a cold shiver that i'll not soon forget. The man was a prosecutor in Boston. I felt like he was so good at what he did because he truly understood the criminal mind from a very deep perspective, and loved putting people away (controlling) for long sentences and was completely ruthless about it (doing whatever it took...truth be damned). I thought that it was interesting that he was more negatively polarized that the criminals that he put away. But his position in society was as a respected crime fighter.
RE: Biased view of STS - airwaves - 02-07-2009
(02-07-2009, 01:40 AM)Thorne Wrote:Quote:Conversely, many entities who have definitely chosen the STS path aren't violent at all. But they are often characterized by their quest for domination and control of others. Many may even appear quite ordinary, even altruistic, on the surface, but there is no way any of us can discern their true motivation.
I've met a few people who were very negative in polarity, but this one time i got a cold shiver that i'll not soon forget. The man was a prosecutor in Boston. I felt like he was so good at what he did because he truly understood the criminal mind from a very deep perspective, and loved putting people away (controlling) for long sentences and was completely ruthless about it (doing whatever it took...truth be damned). I thought that it was interesting that he was more negatively polarized that the criminals that he put away. But his position in society was as a respected crime fighter.
Being STS does not necessarily make you a bad person; it is all how you react to the catalysts that you receive in life. Like Chaotic said some STS can seem very altruistic, and some STO I am sure can seem bad. 3d is full of paradoxes.
RE: Biased view of STS - Thorne - 02-08-2009
The vast majority of people on Earth are more STS than STO. The norm is biased toward STS. What is at issue is someone who's highly polarized STS.
Ultimately there is no good or bad. However, Earth is a duality in which good and bad inherently exist...outwardly and inwardly. There is a definition for highly polarized STS's...they are called sociopaths (sociopath: someone who has no regard for the feeling and welfare of others). Now I may have compassion for a sociopath, but on a dualistic scale of good to bad...they would be bad to the bone.
The definition of altruistic, however, is the unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness. The doesn't sound like how Ra describes STS. An altruistic STS would be someone who tends toward an STS bias, but really is not very polarized....like the vast majority of souls here.
RE: Biased view of STS - airwaves - 02-08-2009
(02-08-2009, 12:06 AM)Thorne Wrote: The definition of altruistic, however, is the unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness. The doesn't sound like how Ra describes STS. An altruistic STS would be someone who tends toward an STS bias, but really is not very polarized....like the vast majority of souls here.
Now Thorne, the altruism would simply be a cover; notice the word seem that I used. We can all seem to be something we are not at times. A STS individual is more than capable of putting on an altruistic cover if it will benefit them in some way, there have been a few times that I have questioned my own altruism as being something more STS based for it seemed like I had something to gain for it, but we all gain something from being altruistic. I for one can be and awful butthead or at least seem to be sometimes and always feel bad soon afterwords. Forgive the self for that is the only way to stop the wheels of karma. We cannot be perfect at all times my friend. I think you may have a slightly biased view of the STS; they have more of a need for covers than we, but keep in mind we are all one and they are as much a part of us as we a part of them. I apologize if this seems overly argumentative, but I cannot help but think of the STS as I would anyone else that is STO.
Love and Peace my friend. :)
RE: Biased view of STS - Thorne - 02-08-2009
Fair enough.
RE: Biased view of STS - airwaves - 02-08-2009
(02-08-2009, 02:40 AM)Thorne Wrote: Fair enough.
I am sorry if that was to argumentative brother, the more I reread it the more it seems a little harsh. It sort of just flowed from my mind to my fingers with little grace.
No harm intended
Love and Peace
RE: Biased view of STS - Thorne - 02-08-2009
None taken, brother. You clearly take seriously your STO focus, and for that I commend you.
Your releasing of judgment and feeling of compassion toward STS seekers seems to me to be a fine progression toward positivity. One can remove feelings of judgment and still maintain awareness of what someone is capable of doing. For instance, I do not judge my neighbors toddler for hitting me in the crouch, however, I do turn slightly when he's in front of me. : )
RE: Biased view of STS - airwaves - 02-08-2009
Ouch! lol I have a 4 year old sister that has a habit of hitting me in the crotch to.
She rules the house with an iron fist(a very small fist).
RE: Biased view of STS - Turtle - 02-15-2009
Wow, I must say...I was kind of just reading this thread for fun at first, but after the 2nd page, I just had to register to say this...
Besides a person's intent in actions/thoughts, determining their true orientation to either be STS or STO, I believe that what we are AWARE of is highly important as well...
If you can only come to 2 possible conclusions about how to help someone, and both ways to help them are actually going to be detrimental to their growth, but you are UNAWARE of that, and make an offer of help with these circumstances because you truly want to see them do better, then you are still gaining in your positive polarization by making that choice....just because you're not a master of helping people, doesn't mean YOU are not growing in the process....now that same situation would change 180 degrees if you knew both possibilities to "help" were going to do no good, see what I mean?
I heard this idea somewhere I believe on the radio...and it makes sense given the whole idea in the Law of One about how this is not the density of knowing, this is the density of choosing, love for others or love of the self.
Just wanted to throw that out there, and godspeed to everyone..may your progress be swift!
-Turtle
RE: Biased view of STS - ayadew - 02-15-2009
Hello Turtle.
You are correct, but we are all unaware ultimately here. We cannot do much else but do that which feels intuitively right.
RE: Question for ChaotikMind - 3D Sunset - 02-16-2009
(01-31-2009, 07:25 PM)Chaotikmind Wrote: Those peoples you often see as having STS activities, who are dominating, controlling, lying, manipulating, etc etc are simply ants .
They are Perverted by the path, they are not in a spiritual quest.
...As i said, a pervertion of the mind, the control and the domination need to be pointed to the inner self where they are usefull to learn uncontrol and spirituality, I could also compare that with noise , you can make noise outside just bothering others, and you can make noise inside just bothering yourself and leading you to a greater spiritual state (could sound very paradoxal but works very well in practice if you are able to generate enough with your mind, there is a threshold beyond which mind stop suddenly)
I find this a fascinating and provocative idea. Most who post on this board (admittedly STO in polarity, and many perhaps harvestable) have the perception that control and domination of other selves, in every way possible, is the hallmark of STS entities. It seems that your opinion that this is an incorrect perception was your original purpose for starting the thread, and I am quite interested in pursuing it.
As I re-read your previous post for perhaps the twelfth time, I found myself overcome with a sense or feeling of "control over power". I saw the chaotic, disorganized, energy of the universe directed, pointed and channeled by the master's mind. Am I wrong to propose that this is the essence of STS? If not, then perhaps I begin to have some small feel for how the raw strength of the red, orange and yellow rays can be focused (controlled) to bridge to the indigo ray and tap into intelligent energy (power). I also have some infinitesimal appreciation for the concentration of will that is required to accomplish this. It is quite a different paradigm of access into Intelligent Energy than I am accustomed to.
Quote:This is the only LOO part that don't resonate in my self(some points of view of Ra/QUO's about STS i mean).
This is why I'm interested in pursuing the thread as well. I believe that most on this board tend to equate evil and STS. Indeed many quotes from Q'uo (in particular) seem almost judgmental toward the STS polarity. Ra, I believe, demonstrated a more balanced view of STS, but still seemed to lack the fundamental understanding of STS true motivations to be able to characterize them completely. My feelings about STS are more ambivalent than most, and I tend to agree with your initial assessment that most of our views are "biased".
So, let us continue our discussion and hopefully provide everyone a more enlightened perspective on this duality. I look forward to hearing more from you to allow me to better appreciate this aspect of the One Infinite Creator.
Best regards,
3D Sunset
RE: Question for ChaotikMind - Chaotikmind - 02-17-2009
Quote:As I re-read your previous post for perhaps the twelfth time, I found myself overcome with a sense or feeling of "control over power". I saw the chaotic, disorganized, energy of the universe directed, pointed and channeled by the master's mind. Am I wrong to propose that this is the essence of STS?
Yes, this is a way to see it, or maybe should i say it's a way to live it.
There is still to much malevolence in it for me , but i far prefer that view.
As an anecdotal story i have to add :
I rarely use cards,not really my domain, but one person said me to try to take one inside his rajneesh tarot deck, result: Illumination, i put the card back , i shuffle, retake one card : Same one, one month later i 'm back at that person house, i do the same thing 2 times still the same card.
The interresting thing here is the text written on that card which roughly says : You are far on the path and thus you feel separated from the others, but this is an illusion because all is one.
And yes actually that was my impression, that card was plainly reflecting my thinkings, But oppositely to the where that card want to lead you, i not going to wait for anyone or loosing time just for the sake of everything being harmonious.
That makes me ask the following question :
Can't an STS being be something like an ermit also? completely separated from society to the last degree?
If the answer is yes, how that being could be evil with others if he's not interacting at all ?
I don't remember the passage , but i think i remember something like Ra speaking about higher density STS which were complety separated from everything.
Quote:It is quite a different paradigm of access into Intelligent Energy than I am accustomed to.
I 'm nearly sure there is lot of way to do it, some people are able to, they don't even know why.
This is more and educated guess than something that i'm sure about, but i think depending of the inner structure of your mind you have more or less access to different capacities more or less easily.
Also i read somewhere in the forum that's it's barely tolerated to speak about that here , but I have found hallucinogenic to be a great way to experience unity and to tap intelligent infinity, i'm myself a very regular user, and it can learn me thing that would have taken years otherwise.
I have to add that what is learnt is mostly not from the world of words, and damn hard to state/phrase .
A bit out of subject but :
Last time i saw the inner structure of unity , the way unity replicate in a kind of vector fractal way, i soon realized i was seeing my own "code" being repared as it was rematching the source one , mmm a bit like that for the time i had access to that, the related functions were available too.In brief i think i see how one is many now, one source , multiple distorded holograms , providing the illusion each is separate.More simply, the same way as you can have several shadows of yourself, those are distorded, and only under light the shadow disappears and the source is seen.
It makes me go in the same direction always, making me realize the limiteless/divine power of one entity, And even if learning that way is quite frustrating sometime it's also very rewarding, you don't really need to be able to vocalize things for those to be useful.
Back to the subject :
Maybe we could see an STS being to be a sink draining energy all around him, where and STO would seems to be Flowing/radiating energy.
It's more abstract and don't directly imply something bad or good.
That said, polarisation would just be related to the way/ratio of energy flow.
RE: Question for ChaotikMind - Monica - 02-18-2009
(02-16-2009, 08:50 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: ...most on this board tend to equate evil and STS. Indeed many quotes from Q'uo (in particular) seem almost judgmental toward the STS polarity. Ra, I believe, demonstrated a more balanced view of STS, but still seemed to lack the fundamental understanding of STS true motivations to be able to characterize them completely.
I find this a rather curious perspective...I think this is the first time I've heard Ra being described as lacking understanding. I admit that I'm having a bit of a difficult time wrapping my mind around that one!
I'd always thought Ra and indeed Q'uo were tolerant, understanding, and even rather nice towards STS...certainly more so than any religion I can think of!
Your comments raise the question: Where is the line drawn between 'being judgmental' and making a clear choice of one's chosen path? Q'uo has stated that the STS path is a difficult and bloody path...and that they are not of that path, but are of the radiant path. I am curious why you perceived their assessment of the paths to be 'judgmental' ...it seems to me that the only way to totally avoid any sense of being judgmental at all would be to view both paths as being equally appealing...not only valid (which we all know to be true on an intellectual level) but appealing...and if we were able to do that, wouldn't that indicate that we had no polarity at all? It would seem to me that only one who is firmly rooted in the middle of the fence could see both sides of the fence with zero preference for one or the other.
Then there is the issue of labels:
How do we know that any one person's opinion about STS is characteristic of what Ra was referring to when using the same term 'STS?'
'STS' is a label. Does identification with a label necessarily mean that the essence is the same as that which is commonly described by the label?
For example, let's look at another label, 'Christian.' What is a 'Christian?'
One who adheres to a particular flavor of religion? Or one who aspires to follow the teachings of Christ, regardless of external label? Or, one who manifests the Christ nature, regardless of aspirations?
Many Christians do not themselves agree as to what constitutes a 'true' Christian. Visit any Christian discussion forum and you will see much debate on this. I use this example for illustration purposes only.
Likewise, we can discuss and debate amongst ourselves what is truly an 'STS' or 'STO' entity, but all we're really learning about is what WE are. For example, a particular person who identifies with the 'STS' label may certainly have much to share, but does identification with the label necessarily indicate polarity?
And, if any particular person's observations about STS are different from those offered by Ra, does this necessarily mean that one is accurate and the other not? Just as we could ask "Does a person referring to themselves as 'Christian' indicate an accurate depiction of a follower of Christ? ...or...is that person necessarily an embodiment of the Christ nature?" So too can we ask: Does identification with the label used by Ra indicate an accurate depiction of the concepts that Ra was attempting to convey?
RE: Biased view of STS - Chaotikmind - 02-18-2009
Quote:'STS' is a label. Does identification with a label necessarily mean that the essence is the same as that which is commonly described by the label?
Indeed a label never identify what's inside the container,
but for communication people tend to agree one some common definitions for things.
When you open a bean can , you tend to expect to find beans indide .
Quote:Many Christians do not themselves agree as to what constitutes a 'true' Christian. Visit any Christian discussion forum and you will see much debate on this. I use this for illustration purposes only.
That kind of problem tend to arise when words are used, really imperfect way to communicate, but sadly it's the one that is available for everybody.
Words are themselves labels put on experience as a way to communicate, if the same word is used by 100 people it will never have the same meaning for each of these person, obviously.
RE: Biased view of STS - Monica - 02-18-2009
Agreed. The point I was trying to convey is that no individual person can be representative of a label such as STS or STO, or even necessarily an example of such, because those terms indicate polarity, which cannot be ascertained by observation but only by walking the Steps of Light.