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HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - Printable Version

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HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - kristy1111 - 02-07-2010

I reeeeaally need some advice, folks. I am the type of person that is regarded as one of the very few "sane" or "together" people in my family - on both sides. There are many in my gene pool who are alcoholics, drug addicts, and live massively dysfunctional lives. Even my own dad.

My mom is another person who is considered "together". Both of us are extremely compassionate by nature, and we want the best for people, especially those we love. When the going gets tough for the dysfunctional relatives, they run to one of us (or both).

My mom has helped SO many people in the family - even to the point of taking them in off the street, helping them through rehab, helping nurse them back to health, helping them find work, learn how to do banking, etc. They always relapse.

I, too, have done this. I even rescued my own dad off the street before when he was jobless and homeless. He was selling his blood to buy booze. He would collect used cigarettes with my brother (now dead) from businesses that had ash trays, and then collect the tobacco from them and "roll their own". **blech** Confused

In the past few years, the son of my dead brother has been coming to me and my husband for help. He was raised in SEVERE dysfunction and wasn't taught a thing about life or how to live well or productively. He is an alcoholic, a heavy smoker, has done drugs, has a record, and he can't keep a job. He has no training in anything and he is a drifter. He mooches off of people.

Since he was the son of my brother, I wanted to help him. I wanted to teach him how to live a "normal" life and function well and to find happiness. We took him into our home and we taught him how to find a job, we bought him a scooter to get to work on, a helmet, boots, etc. We gave him a beautiful bedroom and bathroom in our home to use and we fed him and bought him clothes. We taught him how to bank and manage his money. We taught him a lot. One day, he just decided to leave us and of course, we had to pay for his airline ticket.

I was very upset, but as time went on, I softened quite a bit and let it all go. Then some time later, he wanted to come back and he acted so "repentant" and said he'd changed. I am too much of a softy. I let him come back in and we started all over again. After a few months, the same dang thing happened! Only he started messing up big time and breaking our rules behind our back and we caught him, etc. So it was me who got tough and kicked him out and told him to go back to Washington...which he did.

So many months passed, and he was really struggling in Washington. Me and my husband both felt "impressed", if you will, to give him one more chance. So we took him in again - helped him find a job (only we made him do all the searching - we just drove him to the businesses). He finally got the job and he said it was full time. NOT. We built him an apartment on our farm. He wanted cats so we got him two cats. We bought him a car (we were tired of having our schedule dependent upon his work schedule and having to drive him everywhere).

His alternator went out and he had no money...we had to pay for a new one and pay the labor. Then he got in a wreck and the other car's owner wants money for the damage. My nephew avoids the guy's phone calls, so the guy comes to our door last night looking for him.

His 'real' hours are only 15-20 per week on minimum wage. He is also now dating a girl who has a son, and they are intimate - and I have a premonition she will become pregnant. We had him set up a system with the bank where he automatically pays a certain amount into our bank account every Friday. He has missed many payments! And each time he does, he racks up service charges ($40 a wack!).

We have fed him (and he's a BIG guy...eats a LOT). We have bought him food, clothing, gas, sooooo much. We have had long talks with him, taught him things, showed him how to do things, spent HOURS and hours working with him.

We had rules, too...no alcohol or cigarettes on our property and a few other rules. We did it to help him because he is in poor health. He is only 24. He uses our washer and dryer, our internet services, our cable t.v., our phone service, our electricity, etc. We even got him a refrigerator, and many more things.

Okay, so today I went into his apartment because he has been gone for long periods of time (sleeping at his girlfriend's house). I was concerned for his cats. The place was a shambles!! Garbage everywhere...it stunk like cat poop big time. The litter box was so full that the cats were pooping on the floor. There were empty cans and garbage all over. And rotten food. Dirty clothes, too.
I checked his refrigerator to see how much food he had, and there in the freezer was a half gallon jug of Kentucky whiskey (ALL GONE). He had drank it all. There's a rule broken. So then I found an empty cigarette pack - another rule broken. And then girly magazines.

He is crying poverty and borrowing money from my husband like crazy, and not using it for food or gasoline or anything good...just booze, smokes, girly magazines, and gas to get to his girlfriend's house.

In the meantime, he lies to us all the time and he is using us and telling us what we want to hear. I have done all I can do. I can't take this feeling "used" anymore...I feel like a doormat.

So, what is making me feel cruddy (besides being used) is the fact that I don't know how much is enough. I mean, we're supposed to be loving and forgiving and help others and serve others. But where do we draw the line? Where IS that fine line? Or is there one? I don't feel we are helping him by letting him walk on us. We found out he is lying about everything and I just don't want to take it anymore. And I don't want to help him again. What is sad is, he has destroyed ALL trust that I may have had a little bit of left for him. It's completely gone.

I want to kick his arse out the door but at the same time, I feel like the Universe will think I'm a witch. SadTongue I am acting like a witch right now...I am full of anger and I'm even feeling some hatred. So with that, I am feeling so dang guilty.

When is enough...enough??

I'm soooo sorry I had to come here and rant and rave, but I feel like I'll explode emotionally if I can't share this with some like minded folks who might help calm me down and steer me in the right direction. Right now I just want to beat the crap out of him and throw him out. That's how upset I am. I just don't understand how a person could use me and walk on me when I have done so much to help them. I feel rather like a fool.

rant over. Please...can anybody help me or give me advice?


RE: Any is too much - Peregrinus - 02-07-2010

Having similar life experience (abusive addict/alcoholic father/mother/family members/spouses/friends), I can honestly say that it is not for you to save he/she that does not desire to be saved. I have tried as well, and truthfully, there is something you can do. I will detail that later on in this post.

I have learned to understand addiction in great depth, and have even gone down that rabbit hole once to try help someone. What I have learned after far too many years is that two things are required for the addict/alcoholic to clean up. The want, and the need.

Most, but not all, have the want. The ones who do not have the want will end up in jail, an institution, or dead, and that is their choice. There is nothing you can do about it. The ones that have the want; you hear it when they wake up after a binge, "I so want to quit", or "I swear to *** I am going to get help", or.... and then the next day, or week, or month(s), there they are so high again they can't tell you their name. The want is real, but it is not enough. Unfortunately, there is also... the need.

The need is as elusive for many as winning the lottery, yet there are those that win. The need is what an addict/alcoholic gets when they come to a point whereby they realize unconditionally that they will die if they continue, and they choose life; they choose that they need to live. This point/choice is traditionally known as "rock bottom", or "the bottom".

A favorite quote of mine, in terms of helping others, is:

There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self. ~ Aldous Huxley

When one "saves" or "tries to save" an addict/alcoholic, they become the "enabler", and only prolong the addicts/alcoholics behavior and suffering. If one wants to actually help the addict/alcoholic, they will detach with love. They will offer love and support, but nothing which will allow the addict/alcoholic to continue with the lifestyle. That means no bed to sleep on when the addict/alcoholic has nowhere to stay, no food when the addict/alcoholic is hungry, no money/ food stamps.... nothing.

I will pm you with some info which will be of help to you, but only if you are not addicted to helping the addict. It is often the case that the enabler (as you and your mother are unwittingly are and as I was) are just as messed up as the addict, only without the drugs. The enabler can watch their life savings, their relationships, and their friends all go down the drain trying to help their addict...

There is an organization which is helpful for those that suffer. It was very helpful for me and helped me get through a very dark time in my life less than a year ago. It is called Nar-Anon.

Here's a little of their wisdom:

Quote:Enabling, in the context of problematic behaviour regarding addicts, signifies dysfunctional approaches that are intended to help the addict, but in fact may perpetuate the problem. A common theme of enabling, in this sense, is that the enabler takes responsibility, blame, or make accommodations for the addicts harmful conduct (often with the best of intentions, or from fear or insecurity, which inhibits action). The practical effect is that the addict does not have to take responsibility for their actions, and is shielded from awareness of the harm it may do, and the need or pressure to change. Enabling is a major environmental cause of addiction.

Enabling can be observed in the relationship between the addict and a co-dependent spouse. The spouse believes incorrectly that he or she is helping the addict by doing things such as calling into work for them, making excuses that prevent others from holding them accountable, and generally cleaning up the mess that occurs in the wake of their impaired judgment. In reality, what the spouse is doing is hurting, not helping.

Enabling can also seen in the relationship between a parent, or parents, and the son or daughter addict. The parent or parents may make excuses for the addict's erratic behaviour, and may themselves withdraw from family or other events which would normally include the addict. The parent tries, out of love, and in the belief that they are helping the addict, to shelter the addict from the consequences of the addicts actions. The parent, or parents, may do this by providing the addict money, paying drug debts, paying the rent or mortgage, paying the addicts bills, buying the addict food or household items, or providing shelter when the addict has nowhere else to go. In reality, what the parent is doing is hurting, not helping.

Enabling prevents psychological growth in the addict, and can contribute to negative symptoms in the enabler.

Generally, individuals who enable others have weak boundaries, low self-esteem, and have difficulty being assertive when they communicate with others.

Imagine how these characteristics could play out in parenting. A young child wants candy early in the morning. The parent understands that this will not be a good habit to begin and tells the child "no." The child proceeds to throw a fit and the parent has a choice - to give in or hold firm. The effect of giving in is profound. The child would learn that throwing a fit works, to manipulate others, would not learn how to delay gratification, would have less tolerance to structure such as boundaries in relationships, etc. The short term gain, of getting the child to cease his or her fit, would not be worth the long term consequences that the experience would mean for their development.

Likewise, feeling needed as an enabler is not worth the long term ramifications created by the enabling. The person being enabled will have some difficult short term consequences if the enabling stops, but these experiences are vital to their growth and psychosocial functioning.


RE: Any is too much - kristy1111 - 02-07-2010

Thank you so much for you reply, and I will read it over and over again to really absorb it. Over the years, I have felt my 'enabling' tendencies weaken and felt myself become stronger. It was more my husband's idea to bring my nephew back in to us - he's very kind-hearted. But I felt it was a good thing to do, too. I wonder if part of it is that he is my dead brother's son and I want to help him even more because he has no father. And his mother is a total addictive mess, so she can't help him.

My brother was one of those you described who didn't have the 'want' to change. Well, I guess so, anyway....because his addiction killed him. He died of alcohol poisoning. He drowned in his own body fluid. He has come to me (in spirit) many times since his death - in fact, he didn't even know he had died and he was very scared and came to me for help.

Another thing to consider is that my nephew is mildly retarded, so I feel like such a jerk for kicking him out. However, it is a MUST. He's smart enough to use us, so I have to give him more credit.

I think my number one issue here is, that I am still not completely familiar with the "real" god - the real character of the "one". I was taught by a strict religion for many years, so of course I grew to fear God. And now I'm learning that we are supposed to be forgiving and loving, and have tolerance. But I am feeling that this doesn't necessarily mean we have to let people walk on us. Right? I mean, I would think it would be a greater act of love to let these people live their own consequences.

I went through rough times before and my mom rescued me, and helped me turn my life around. So maybe I'm also scared that "karma" will kick in, and if I am shoving people out my door, then I might experience something similar if I ever need some help. Soooo many things are going through my mind right now.

I need to quit feeling like I have to please God and be perfect and quit worrying that God will be mad at me (old beliefs are hard to let go of). I claim to be over those beliefs, but sometimes they creep up on me. I feel like I'll fall out of the "service to others" crowd if I don't help people. That's why I am so confused at where to draw the line. Anyway, I will go read your private message, and once again, I thank you with all my heart.

xo

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - JoshC - 02-07-2010

Q'uo has said it a couple times: STO isn't so much verb as it is noun (being rather than doing). That is, though a STO person would most likely be verbing it up, STO is more a state of being. Though I don't remember where from, they say something to the extent that a STO person doesn't have to drain themselves in the pursuit of [insert the correct word that escapes me lol. happiness/helping/polarization maybe?]

I can't really be any help in the area of what to do Sad It looks like Peregrinus can help you, though! Angel

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - Turtle - 02-07-2010

1.) If you continue to allow your nephew to use you, you will constantly feel like ****.

2.) If you kick him out and never let him come back, you will be in a much easier position to find your peace again.

You will not be at peace if you continue to let yourself be **** on by anyone.

Godspeed!

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - Ashim - 02-07-2010

This sounds like a case of learning Wisdom over Compassion. You are obviously very compassionate, this shows through your general attitude of Love and caring. This would be a late 5th or 6th Density lesson.
Love & light

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - Cyclops - 02-07-2010

This may shed some light with the things being discussed here.

Quote:Questioner: Could you give an example of how an entity sets up a condition for attracting a particular experiential catalyst and how that catalyst then is provided or is learned.

Ra: I am Ra. Such an example may be given.

Questioner: Will you give that?

Ra: I am Ra. We paused to scan (name’s) consciousness to use its experiential catalyst as example. We may proceed.

This is one instance and extrapolation may be made to other entities which are aware of the process of evolution. This entity chose, before incarnation, the means whereby catalyst had great probability of being obtained. This entity desired the process of expressing love and light without expecting any return. This entity programmed also to endeavor to accomplish spiritual work and to comfort itself with companionship in the doing of this work.

Agreements were made prior to incarnation; the first, with the so-called parents and siblings of this entity. This provided the experiential catalyst for the situation of offering radiance of being without expectation of return. The second program involved agreements with several entities. These agreements provided and will provide, in your time/space and space/time continuum, opportunities for the experiential catalyst of work and comradeship.

There are events which were part of a program for this entity only in that they were possibility/probability vortices having to do with your societal culture. These events include the nature of the living or standard of living, the type of relationships entered into in your legal framework, and the social climate during the incarnation. The incarnation was understood to be one which would take place at harvest.

These givens, shall we say, apply to millions of your peoples. Those aware of evolution and desirous in the very extreme of attaining the heart of love and the radiance which gives understanding no matter what the lessons programmed: they have to do with other-selves, not with events: they have to do with giving, not receiving, for the lessons of love are of this nature both for positive and negative. Those negatively harvestable will be found at this time endeavoring to share their love of self.

There was another session which I couldn't locate with Q'uo speaking about how you "Make a deal" pre-incarnation with all the entities that surround you throughout life, and that no matter how they treat you it was made so to make you learn, And they in turn learn as well. That doesn't mean that some discipline isn't required.. If you see after countless attempts that the other-self doesn't care to follow your simple rules in order for them to get money/food/help fairly. Then it's your choice to say no. Because when a person is using another person's energy in a manipulative way then it would be service-to-self.

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - thefool - 02-07-2010

We have to balance compassion with the wisdom. You have the duty to be compassionate to yourself first. If you feel like crap while doing an act of compassion then it is not true compassion in my understanding. As you are only acting compassionate and being/feeling a victim. I can not suggest a specific course of action but can say with certainty that you don't owe him anything.

I personally will help in such a situation but totally understanding that my setting rules or expecting this person to get better is not a likely outcome. I am helping because I can. But not expecting anything to change. I will also keep a distance between myself and this person's life. As I want to help but don't want to take the ownership of liability of someone being on my property, using my car etc. So essentially even if you end up helping in some way, don't get sucked into co-sharing the life with him. As your own energy/well being is obviously getting impacted...

What you have is sufficient - Sacred Fool - 02-07-2010

(02-07-2010, 04:10 AM)kristy1111 Wrote: I think my number one issue here is, that I am still not completely familiar with the "real" god - the real character of the "one". I was taught by a strict religion for many years, so of course I grew to fear God. And now I'm learning that we are supposed to be forgiving and loving, and have tolerance. But I am feeling that this doesn't necessarily mean we have to let people walk on us. Right? I mean, I would think it would be a greater act of love to let these people live their own consequences.

Hi, Kristy.

Sorry to read the depth of pain in your struggle; but I think your insight above could be a useful guidepost as you navigate through this difficult territory. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to get any perspective on something which has infected your nervous system. So, your first consideration when pondering what action to take might be to look at how the very set up you've co-created compromises your own ability to make decisions. If your nephew's orbit is so close as to make you sick, as it were, the wisest first step might be to use some sort of booster rocket to nudge him far enough out in space so as to allow you to collect your nerves and your wits.

So, "The character of Oneness." What a wonderful topic to be brought to! Since you're asking advice, I would offer the following which may be of some use to you.

It could be said that each chakra has its own viewpoint on any given catalyst and any of these viewpoints may be particularly powerful for reasons unknown to the experiencer. In times of deep confusion it can be helpful to sort them out individually to get a better grasp of the gestalt.

So, your heart is guiding you to be compassionate; your social instincts don't seem to playing in this too much; your second chakra might be speaking to you about the strong familial bond with your nephew; your general tone of distress might be a reflection of anguish, fear or despair in your first chakra.

Where would put you fear that God will nail you to a tree if you don't toe the line? That one's a bit complex, no? Everything else seems straightforward and appropriate, but this one feels distorted and misplaced. It could be some kind of parasitic distortion thing sucking from one or various of your energy centers.

Going further into the "sorting them out" part mentioned above, you might explore your experience of the God thing at the levels of your different chakras looking for distortions which relate to what you've discussed. For instance, God as close companion (2), God as the heart of my heart (4), God as indivisible everything (6), and so on. You may be able to more clearly feel, discern and identify the distortions this way.

What to do if you find some? One course of action would be to use your heart's wisdom to determine which alternative distortions are the most loving, then in a spirit of love, inform the others that they are no longer needed and may return to Source. If you're able to disentangle these outgrown distortions one chakra at a time, it might enable you to discern your own loving wisdom in your difficult, extrinsic family situations.

I wish you all the best.
~p~

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - gharghur - 02-07-2010

Hi Kristy,
Have not read the replies, so please forgive me if I'm being redundant.
You and your hubby are certainly already of the 4th density mindset: unconditional love.
Unfortunately, in most situations, the 4D mindset comes without some of the 5th density wisdom.
As a result many newbie 4Ds are abused, tormented and taken advantage of in 3D.
While your efforts are extraordinary. You must realize that some of these dysfunctional people in your life may be newbie 3D entities. Still stuck in a red/orange ray awareness. There is really nothing you nor your husband can do to change this. You can not help those who fail to try to help themselves. Every entity evolves at its own pace.
Since you and your husband have chosen this path. There must be a lesson that the two of you are seeking to learn from these experiences. Discover that lesson and you will have your answer.
namaste

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - fairyfarmgirl - 02-07-2010

That which is not your path does not mean it is not another's path. Let your nephew do as he will away from you. This is not your karma to continue to help another who only cares for that which they care for.

fairyfarmgirl

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - Questioner - 02-07-2010

Dear sweet Kristy,

My Internet connection is incredibly flaky today, I hope it will stay up long enough for me to share some helpful thoughts with you.

One of the reasons that you and I have enjoyed our conversations here so much is that we face some similar issues and conundrums.

Both of us brought into this lifetime a deep loving compassion and an intense search for truth. And we've combined that with a shortage of wisdom, leading us into some painful, unnecessary self-sacrifice and self-condemnation.

I was going to explore some more philosophy before sharing more of my own story, but I'll bring in a few things now.

What started me on this path of exploration was my desire to find the answers to some deeply painful questions.

Why is it that I'm not good enough to be accepted by my own family?
What is it about me that is so shamefully bad and wrong that it can't even be put into words, can't be atoned for, and can't be forgiven?
Why is that those I try to love, care for, help, befriend and serve have to reject me, and dispose of me like flushing away used T.P.?
Why is it that it's not possibly to believe me when I say that I care, and that at least I meant well?
Why is that, of course, the last place to look for my motivations of my heart is to ask me what I thought, felt, experienced and intended?
What kind of insanity must I have to have imagined that I tried to serve and to reduce the pain of others, when they have to tell me that actually I never gave a damn and only set out to hurt them? Why can't I remember that this is what I thought and felt?
Why must years of trying to build a relationship as a solid foundation for marriage be discarded, discounted and dismissed as nothing but intolerable BS that's all my own fault?
Why is it that, of course, it's not possible to experience a moment of reflective caring about my losses and suffering?
Since I can't even know my own mind, what else am I sadly mistaken about? Since I can't even understand what I actually experienced, how else is the universe different than what I might imagine? Since my love isn't good enough, what do I have to learn about God to at least have a chance at a good enough life after this one ends?

My search for the answers ultimately brought me here, after a search lasting more than a decade.
It looks like you may well struggle with similar questions.

Guess what: these questions are not the right ones to ask.
I had to become a better questioner before I could find better answers.
And so I commend your question today. I feel that it could well be a turning point for the better in your life. Instead of asking, "How can I give more, regardless of the cost to me, to help someone who won't help himself?" You're now asking, "How can I love myself as well as my neighbor, honoring God's love for me and helping, but only where my help really matters?"
That's such a huge step up! I wish I could come over there and give you a big hug of celebration!

Here's the first question I had to learn to ask.

When someone tells me that:
I must not care about them,
My failures must have been the only cause of all their pain,
I must have intended to hurt them,
I must be not good enough to love or appreciate or respect,
I must deserve nothing more than relentless condemnation and banishment without trial;
I'm not good enough for them, and I'm not good enough for God,
and my ultimate meaning and purpose in life is to apologize already although I don't know what for, and then to serve their pain until I make them stop hurting...

Are they sincerely trying to know truth and help me comprehend reality? Or are they merely dumping out their own pain, or their own dishonesty, onto me, without any wise insight into my own life and character?

People from most religious traditions, and atheists and agnostics, would almost all agree that the story of Jesus in the New Testament is a story of the ultimate example of devoted self-sacrifice out of love. Yet sometimes, Jesus turned down demands that he help some people. Sometimes, he said, "Your attitude sucks so much that there's nothing I can do for you, until you choose yourself to have some better faith in God and respect for the people around you." What would Jesus do? Is there a chance that he might say, "I've done all I can for you, now it's up to you?"

Your nephew obviously has a massive amount of pain that he responds to in two ineffective ways. One way is to get drunk, or stoned, or head over heels over a gal that's bad news for him. In this addictive, altered state of consciousness, he can't give a damn about you or what you have to offer. The other way is to have guilt and desperation, and in that addictive altered state, demand another chance.

But neither of those will heal or save him, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO.

The only thing that can heal and save him is a change that has to start inside his own start. Either he turns to the light of truth and love inside him, his own connection with whatever he can understand of a God or a Higher Power or a Reason For Sobriety or something Better Than Rock Bottom... or he doesn't. His own mind/body/spirit complex, as Ra would call it, is the only place where that Choice can be made. You can't reach in there and make it for him, no matter how much you grieve over the life he chooses to waste in those addictions.

I agree with Peregrinus that Al-Anon or Codependents Anonymous may be helpful to you. Here's a take on the twelve steps that you might not have thought of before:

Came to understand that we were helpless to save others who choose to remain lost, that their lives were beyond our ability to manage for them.
Came to believe that there was a better source of care for their lives than our own futile efforts to save them.
Turned over their souls and bodies to the care of a Higher Power that we understand as better than our own anxiously guilty caretaking and enabling.
Took an unflinching look at the way our addiction to trying to give them the healing only God can give wound up hurting several people, including them and ourselves.
Told the whole truth about the situation, including the damage done to ourselves.
Were entirely willing to have God free us of the lack of faith in God's provision for the other person, and also free us of whatever addictive reaction within us compelled us to try to save someone who chose to put themselves beyond any salvation we could offer to them in our own power.
Humbly asked God to provide this freedom, and replace the painful empty loss with the love of the Creator for all of Creation, including ourselves.
Made a list of those we've injured in the lack of respect for another's choice to separate themselves from God's love. Accurately included ourselves in the list of those injured.
Directly made amends, except when the attempt would cause further injury, starting with the demonstration to ourselves of the loving respect the Creator has for ourselves and for our own right to life, peace, health, kindness and respect.
Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it, including when we believed people who had negative proclamations or demands on us based on their own pain or guilt or deceit rather than on God's love and the truth.
Sought through prayer and meditation to understand God's will for our own lives and the power to carry that out, entrusting the lives and plans of others to God's care above our own.
Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others addicted to denying God's love for themselves; and tried to practice these principles in all our affairs, asking for help, support and wisdom wherever we saw that our own strength might not be enough.

Please take what is useful for you and set aside the rest.

RE: Any is too much - AppleSeed - 02-08-2010

(02-07-2010, 04:10 AM)kristy1111 Wrote: I need to quit feeling like I have to please God and be perfect and quit worrying that God will be mad at me (old beliefs are hard to let go of). I claim to be over those beliefs, but sometimes they creep up on me. I feel like I'll fall out of the "service to others" crowd if I don't help people. That's why I am so confused at where to draw the line.

Hi Kristy, I hope you're doing ok with all that's going on... maybe you can use some of the anger to smash those old beliefs. They are hard to let go of, I know, and I didn't even really think I had them. The idea of a fearsome God has been beaten into us over many centuries, and it's time to let all of that go. Blessings...

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - kristy1111 - 02-08-2010

(02-07-2010, 04:47 AM)JoshC Wrote: Q'uo has said it a couple times: STO isn't so much verb as it is noun (being rather than doing). That is, though a STO person would most likely be verbing it up, STO is more a state of being. Though I don't remember where from, they say something to the extent that a STO person doesn't have to drain themselves in the pursuit of [insert the correct word that escapes me lol. happiness/helping/polarization maybe?]

I can't really be any help in the area of what to do Sad It looks like Peregrinus can help you, though! Angel

Wow...I'd love to find that part to read up on it! Thanks! So what state of "being" would be have to be in to be STO, I wonder? Huh
(02-07-2010, 05:42 AM)Turtle Wrote: 1.) If you continue to allow your nephew to use you, you will constantly feel like ****.

2.) If you kick him out and never let him come back, you will be in a much easier position to find your peace again.

You will not be at peace if you continue to let yourself be **** on by anyone.

Godspeed!

Okay, yes....I entered the slang feces term in both of the 'fill in the blank' spaces. BigSmile It fits perfectly. We have done some major lecturing and kicking out the last couple of days. And my hubby is over talking to him right now to seal the deal. I feel a LOT better thus far...except so sad that it had to come to this. Sad
(02-07-2010, 11:10 AM)Ashim Wrote: This sounds like a case of learning Wisdom over Compassion. You are obviously very compassionate, this shows through your general attitude of Love and caring. This would be a late 5th or 6th Density lesson.
Love & light

If it's a 5th or 6th density lesson, how come I'm going through it now? Or did I misunderstand you somehow? :-/

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - Sacred Fool - 02-09-2010

(02-08-2010, 11:36 PM)kristy1111 Wrote: If it's a 5th or 6th density lesson, how come I'm going through it now? Or did I misunderstand you somehow? :-/

Graduation & mastery are two very different things. Graduation indicates that you passed the exam, not that you have entirely mastered the subject matter. That is, the more one learns, the more one needs to digest and balance all the learning. It's relatively difficult and time consuming to do that in higher densities, easier here because the feedback comes sooner and the effects upon one's deeper sense of self are more resonant.

That's one reason that higher density beings talk so much about the learning that has been distilled from a lifetime, as opposed to the specific content. For them, these dramas are opportunities to further attune their being to their deeper knowledge...maybe.

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - Ashim - 02-09-2010

I believe during early / mid 5th Density there can be an overabundance of Compassion. This is the residue from the 4th Density Love/ Light.

To use your example: The calling of a family member is heard and acted upon out of Compassion. Family member abuses the help given, leeching the Positive Energy to further his STS agenda.
Possible outcomes:
1. Cancellation of the agreements made. The family member had violated the terms and conditions of these contracts so must accept the consequences. You are released from the contract. Lesson learnt.
2. More Compassion is piled on. Another chance given. Here the danger is that other relationships will probably suffer as a result. For example your own partnership.

The nature of life circumstances and dramas together with their themes and Life Lessons will often give hints as to your own Soul Identity.
Why should you not be learning a 5th Density lesson right now?

Love & light

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - blade8r - 02-09-2010

I like what fairy farm girl said earlier, "This is not your karma to continue to help another who only cares for that which they care for." and well its the truth. but JEEZ man everybody here is quoting the words of Ra and other confederate messages. lets keep this simple guys.

Go inside your nephew's house and clean up all the mess you guys see. throw away all the trash. cigarettes and booze around get rid of it. put the magazines away someplace (don't take it away just put them away). clean up the Cats s*** and please feed them. i have a cat so i know what it's like falling behind cleaning up after my pet.

but at this point you going to need to slowly become more distance from your nephew in steps, very slow steps. when he comes home don't b**** at him don't scold him or try to lecture him he's a grownup, treat him like one. just put it down simply what it is. so to better your nephew and to better yourself. the life lessons living in this world must be consummated. life must be learned through steps. however they may be different for most. some greater then others. but in either way must be learned.

My Father did a great job teaching me how to teach me how to move up and out of the house on my own. he said to me, "Son, 1 year from now your moving out on your own"

he used to feed me everyday. i had a part time job at the time only enough to pay for some stuff. slowly 1 day of the week we didn't have dinner. he didn't say anything just he ate already. there was no food or anything just 1 day that i didn't get to eat. which was fine because everything seemed okay the next day. some more time moved along and 2 days of the week we didn't have dinner. they weren't next to each other but man.. was i hungry in between those days. he didn't say anything (My family didn't eat breakfast or lunch not that it mattered i wasn't home usually) the days slowly over time progressed where it became evident that he wasn't going to buy food at all anymore for me. so i had to eat. i got whatever paycheck i had and i saw what little money i had and i bought food with it. it was foreign to me to do such things. but i realized i ran out of money real quick buying the expensive eat out places. i had no money left. no nothing left.

i asked my dad, "hey dad umm. I'm hungry can you buy me something to eat." he said this, "alright, ill get ya something." my dad is Asian so he went out to an Asian market and bought about 1 dollars worth of rice and some Asian style pork and eggs. something that may of costed him $2.50 total. this amount of food wouldn't of even fed 90 lbs women. everytime i asked him. he was pick me up something. but not anything NEAR enough what i needed.

it was then where i found another job which gave me full time hours. and more then minimum wage. but it took that push of man i need to eat.

at this point my dad started to charge me rent. and so on. i had to pay a cut of the utilities. which were within my grasp of payment but he knew what i was making and how much it was suitable for me to handle. had i missed a payment my dad cut off the thing i used the most... like the internet. blip turned off the wireless and no neibor in sight who had a free wifi signal nearby. boy those days sucked when i couldn't play my video games.

but anyways. when the end of the year came down he told me. son on this date Im moving out of the house. and your going to have to find a place of your own. he helped me out with the deposit. (which turned out was all of the rent and utility money i came up with) he also made it a point to show that my share of the rent was the same as regular rent of an apartment would of been like.

but that's what my father did to me. i cannot for the life of me see how me thought up of such plan but he did a great job at it. btw i was 21 when he did that. i'm 26 now 5 years strong in the dog eat dog world.

but good luck, i suggest these tips to help improve your nephew's conditon. though i have no remedy for the g/f with a child

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - Peregrinus - 02-09-2010

(02-09-2010, 11:13 AM)blade8r Wrote: Go inside your nephew's house and clean up all the mess you guys see. throw away all the trash. cigarettes and booze around get rid of it. put the magazines away someplace (don't take it away just put them away). clean up the Cats $hit and please feed them. i have a cat so i know what it's like falling behind cleaning up after my pet.

To this I strongly disagree. Each and every action has a consequence, and the addict/alcoholic learns nothing if others clean up their mess in life. Doing anything other than providing love for the addict/alcoholic simply makes them a more comfortable addict/alcoholic. This is their catalyst to deal with. Give them the freedom to experience as they desire so with their free will. To do otherwise is to control, rewarding yourself with negative polarity.

If you want to know your past - look into your present conditions. If you want to know your future - look into your present actions. ~ Chinese Proverb ~

Secondly, keep it simple. Focus on ensuring you are ok. Service to others accepts 49% service to self.

Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others. ~ Jacob M. Braude ~

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - blade8r - 02-10-2010

the point of cleaning up after the mess is show the height of caring and love to be showed and presented.

like filling a glass of water and slowly pouring it out.

to make it a downward spiral for a soft catalyst. it'll bear its weight out. but if anything a least clean the cats s*** and feed it.

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - Peregrinus - 02-10-2010

First off blade8r, I must apologize. I think I forgot my manners and neglected to offer you a warm greeting. It is our pleasure to have you here. Your words appear to me to one of a very loving person, and your light shines brightly.

I regret that my previous post appears harsh and unyielding, yet having learned the lesson of addiction/alcoholism many times over, each time with more severe consequences, I wonder if it was one of the lessons I chose to learn here this time around. Believe me, I have cleaned up the mess over and over and over for years, and yet all that did was, with my permission, steal life from me, leaving me in darker and darker places. I tried to control each and every situation, to be helpful, but in the end, my love and saving and helping and input mattered not, for each determines their own path, and their choice is just that to make; theirs. I lost my house, my life savings, my bank account, my friends, and my spouse in this last cycle, and ended up sharing a single room with a toddler daughter, raising her by myself. This subject is not one I look at with dispassion or walk around carefully. I know this better than I know my own mother. Soft catalyst? I think that is the stuff we ignore. It is the hard/tough catalyst that makes us wake up and pay attention. Certainly no addict or alcoholic ever hit soft bottom... well, actually they hit that every time they wake after a binge, only to start over.

I think the most important saying that all addiction and family support programs has is one that can be used in all aspects of life. This is only in respect to others, mind you, for each is responsible for their own action or inaction.

Let go and Let God

When it comes to the cat; perhaps this is the catalyst that will accelerate it to 3rd density? Who is to say? Certainly not you, and certainly not me. Again, it comes to control, and it is not ours to do so. Feeding the cat one time would be like dropping off a days supplies for the people of Haiti and leaving, saying "Good luck". If one is going to effect change, remove the cat entirely.

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - norral - 02-10-2010

Dear sweet Kristy

Bless you dear heart for all of your efforts. Please do not be offended
by what i have to say. You have taken on and accepted the role of
caretaker. It is quite common in situations like this there is usually at least
one in the family who cleans up everybodys mess and takes on
responsibilites at a very young age that have been abdicated by the
adults who should be the caretakers.
you, i ,Carla nobody on this board can save anybody else.
let me repeat you cant save anybody from themselves. they choose to
be dysfunctional. it is hard to accept but the kindest most loving thing
you can do is let these people go straight to hell if they so choose.
if they choose to die so be it. i know it sounds harsh but it is the
truth. we are here to live our own lives and develop our own souls
and we all choose the situations we come to live in. can you believe that
these dysfunctional people might have been kings in a previous life;
it is not only possible it is probable, we are here to experience every
condition possible to develop the compassion in our hearts.
accept the fact dear heart that u are here to live your own life
and live it. go out and find some positive people and have a good time
with them. that is the honest thoughts that come from my soul

peace love and light
HeartHeartHeart norral HeartHeartHeart

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - Brittany - 02-11-2010

I think it is somewhat obvious that this person is not willing to use the opportunities he is being given to learn. Even if he truly wants to change, if he doesn't muster up the willpower to do it on his own, nothing you do for him is going to help. True transformation comes from within, and by continually covering for his shortcomings you may actually be keeping him from having the motivation to look inside himself and realize that something needs to be done. Of course I wouldn't say you should treat him hatefully, but I can't see the situation getting any better if it continues in the direction its going in now. Of course, this is only my opinion. Choosing what you will do is part of your growth as well.

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - kristy1111 - 02-11-2010

Well, I thought I'd fill you all in regarding the situation with my nephew. It's been a wild ride! I wrote him a letter...for two reasons. First, I knew I'd get very emotional, and perhaps even yell, if I talked to him in person. Secondly, he really loves me and I am the only close connection he has with his dead father (who he never got to meet). So, I let him know that I refused to talk to him, listen to his lies and excuses, and refused to even see him.

In the letter I told him why we were upset with him, and reminded him that this isn't a new story - that he's done this to us every time we've taken him in. I told him it's the same circumstances, the same rules being broken, etc. I let him know what we had found.

I took complete possession of the two cats, his cat food, litter box...everything. I'm the one who got him the cats, and I had told him that I would take them back if he didn't care for them. So I'm true to my word.

I told him that he could no longer come to us for ANY kind of help...no rides, no money, no food, no bail out, no nothing. I told him that he had to leave the apartment we provided for him (gave him a short amount of time to do it). I told him he couldn't take anything but what he came here with from the state he moved from. He only has clothes, a few C.D.'s and some notebooks, etc. I told him he couldn't take anything from the apartment - no furniture, no appliances...nothing.

We took the title to his car that we purchased and told him he could have it back when he completely paid off the car (paid us). I told him that he also couldn't come here and eat anything...that he was responsible for feeding himself and taking care of himself.

I told him that he 100% completely destroyed any and all trust I had for him, and that it would be nearly impossible for me to regain that trust for him in the future. I told him he'd have to change his life, on his own, and I'd have to see him live that way for a substantial amount of time before I could even consider trying to trust him a tiny bit.

I told him that we refuse to be doormats to him any longer and that we love him very much, but he had to be a man. I told him that I would love to treat him like an adult, but first he must act like one. And he has to be consistent about it before I would even consider it.

I told him that I am "past feeling" and no longer feel sorry for him and no longer want him around me.

He was VERY upset. He wrote me a letter back and used EVERY KIND of guilt tactic he could muster up. He said we "stole" his cats. He said that we were intolerant of normal human weaknesses and that nobody's perfect. He said that we are his family but we are putting him out with nowhere to go. He told us that we had no right to take 'his' car away from him. (ha) He told us that we were invading his privacy (but I had told him that he lost his privacy when he stopped paying his rent and started breaking all the rules). I had also told him that I do understand human weakness, but we've been through the same crap with him so many times, that he's smart enough to know better. How do I know? Well, he was smart enough to try and hide the stuff - so he knew he was messing up. He also said that he can't believe we're treating him this way because every time he talked to us, he showed us the "utmost respect". I told him "since when is lying to someone's face - someone that is helping you through EVERYthing...respect??" He also told us that just when he had "worked" himself into getting a solid foundation he gets booted out. It wasn't him that did all that stuff to get him ahead...it was us. Sure, we made him go get work, and we made him make phone calls, etc. But we were his rock solid foundation. Anyway, the biggest guilt trip he tried to put on us was "I feel erased". Well, boo-hoo. It didn't even phase me. That's how tired of it I am.

We let Steve get really scared and feel totally helpless. Then my husband went over there and talked to him. Steve started crying. My husband told him that he could rent our apartment if Steve gave us ALL his money whenever he got paid and he had to ask us for anything he needed (money-wise, like a certain amount to put gs in his car, or pay his insurance, etc., then bring back receipts to prove that's how he spent it. Hubby also said that he would work with him and try and help him learn to manage money. He still isn't allowed to eat here, but he can shower and use the bathroom if needed, but had to pay us a utility payment every month. We kept the cats with us. It was my husband's idea to say all that to him and I told him okay. But as I think of it, I still think that is enabling Steve. However, Karl also said that if he didn't agree to that then he had to get out. My nephew HATED the idea of having to give us all his money, and he said he had to think it over...haha. So hopefully he's looking for a place to live. But he has no money for a deposit, etc. Don't EVEN think of coming to us for it.

I have not allowed my nephew to see me or talk to me since I found out he's been breaking my rules. This hurts him terribly...but that's just the way it is. I don't want to talk to him, and I don't want to even hear him telling me about how he's improving. Why? Because I probably wouldn't believe it. I'd have to hear that he GOT a new job, and then hear...a couple of years down the road...that he STILLhas that job, etc. And that he's clean and sober. And then I might wave at him. ;o)

I believe in teaching kids and young adults how to make it in this world, and helping them acclimate in the world. And we have done this for a long time with my nephew. But he still turns around and uses us and lies to us. That's why I won't take it anymore. And I won't...and I mean it. I'm pretty easy going, but once I'm pushed too far...it's TOO far.

Anyway, I would love to hear what you think of how I handled it thus far. Any suggestions?
Thank you ALL for helping me. I've read and re-read these posts and I can't even describe how helpful you've all been. I feel SO much better!

Love to you,
Kristy xoxoxoxoxo

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - blade8r - 02-12-2010

(02-11-2010, 09:30 PM)kristy1111 Wrote: Blah Blah Blah big story magic poof made the quote smaller.

Love to you,
Kristy xoxoxoxoxo

wow.. you took what i said and made it a step overboard of what i was mentioning. and man he's going to hate you.

:Story mode:
kinda reminds me of a thing that happen at my work. behind my building there was a man who had just sat down in the shade to avoid the heat all the while scratching his head and picking his nose. my coworker saw this man and thought it was a bum and thought nothing of it. the area he was in is enclosed nobody ever walks around that area unless they need to be there. anyways the next day in the afternoon my co worker happens to be walking behind the building (out of sight, out of mind trying to not be found during working hours i would guess.)

but he sees the same guy there and well. lying on the ground same spot.. just looks like he's sleeping. well later on that day a different co worker spots the guy in the same sleeping position and decided to inform management. (well the out of sight out of mind guy is part of management.) he thinks to himself. (there is no way that guys is still there its been like 5 hours.)

anyways he goes to investigate and finds him dead behind the building. it just so happens there was a customer in the store who was a police officer and he took things from there and the story goes.

but 3 weeks after that incident. we get the wife of the man who died back there she told us that he was an alcoholic and he died from drinking too much. he was on the run from the world. apparently he took off from his AA/Rehab program and ended up behind the building.
:END:

the story got me realizing how all STO persons have deal with them selves is to remember is to let go of the lost causes. and the wife made her amen when it came to her husband. something i never could forget.

but i just want you to understand that regardless of the decision you do. your going to have to stick to your guns. and it's going to be YOU who slowly changes. and it'll take time for you to trust your nephew again. i don't think i could lovingly throw someone out there on the blue on their own. but my take is to make it a gradual movement.

i think he'll turn out eventually. i think what your husband is doing is an awesome thing. some people need micro managing until they get the hang of it them selves. he is given decision he is not mature enough to make on his own. so being taught how to manage is the polarity he must undertake.

because before hand you had just given him support. in the decision he makes. bad or good you just supported him. enabling him, to whatever ends. however now he is given the option that decision is not his to make. but to follow. and that only well thought and consummated needs are attained.

I think this is the point of his life where he decides to put his life in the hands of the people that love him.

Buddha once said, "The mind is everything What we think, we become." it is a slow process for people to change. but it start off now.

RE: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH????? - Questioner - 02-14-2010

Kristy, that's quite a change in your dealings with your nephew.

I think it's especially important here to repeat the disclaimer: As we appreciate your development of a backbone, please use or adapt whatever helps your spirit sing with peace and joy, and leave aside any opinions that are not helpful to you now.

You'd previously not mentioned your husband or nephew by name. Do you want to edit your post to take out their names, or leave their names in?

Legally, of course, a landlord has every right to consider a lease terminated for nonpayment, evict and clean the place up. His attempted guilt trip was all about making you feel bad, not about what is honorable, forthright, ethical.

blade8r's earlier post described the father's year-long transition plan. You have the option, if you like, to say that after thinking things over you decided to give the nephew a limited amount of help for a transition time. Say, three months.

For example: If he follows ALL the rules, including paying everything he owes on time each month, you could trade the car towards a small pickup with a little camper shell or trailer. That would ensure he has a place to sleep, eat, and use the bathroom, and a way to get to jobs, even if everything else falls apart (but NOT parking on your farm)... IF he could get his act together enough to pay the registration & insurance & maintenance. During that transition time your husband could make sure he knows how to cook rice & beans, noodles & broth, etc. - dirt cheap, dirt simple food.

Just an example, one option out of many.

Any further agreement really should be written down, all the rules included. Two copies made, signed by both parties with you & your husband getting one copy, your nephew the other copy.

And you also have the option to stick to your guns or to do whatever else you want!

I feel it might be important to make 100% sure he understands that if he has a child, you have NO responsibility to take care of that child. And if you ever do decide to help the child, that doesn't mean you have ANY responsibility to accommodate irresponsible parenting such as addiction.

I think that it might be important to make sure he understands that fetal alcohol syndrome is one of the most heartbreaking, destructively cruel ways possible to bring a new person into the world. If his lady is as addictive as he is, which she probably is to put up with him, there's a serious risk that they would probably result in them losing any child to the state as incompetent parents.

And you should also point out that you don't see the death of an irresponsible, self-destructive adult as something that requires all the other adults around them to destroy their own lives. His behavior may well lead to the end of this incarnation, which would be tragic but would not require you to sacrifice yourself to provide more help he's already rejected.

These may be things your husband could convey to your nephew.