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PSI Debate and the Great Yellow Ray Blocker - Lavazza - 01-20-2010
Hey everyone,
This is sort of an open letter to myself. Feel free to comment, query or otherwise add your thoughts!
Over the last few weeks I've become more and more involved in a great debate about PSI phenomena in a third party sense. I've been listening to an internet radio show (podcast) called Skeptiko, hosted by Alex Tsakiris. In it, Alex interviews leading researchers and scientists who are involved in parapsychology, as well as their peers who are critical or skeptical of the work. The idea is to get a dialog going between to hopefully help open people up to these ideas, to find where the controversy is, and hopefully where the truth is based on the evidence. This is all very interesting to me, since I learned about PSI workings and scientific PSI research last year. All well and good!
The problem is, this is a very hot button issue with many people. And many times, the nature of this work is subjective, more so than is comfortable for our current scientific model. There is also a large group of people who are extremely against the possibility of any of this being real. Skeptics and cynics alike attack the area of study in droves.
Fair enough- if there is a kernel of truth in it anywhere, it's a worthwhile endeavor. Let the skeptics weigh in, and, if their research is shown to not disprove the studies, then lets go from there. Whoa, STOP- hold on.. Yes in theory this is exactly what should happen. But unfortunately, that's not what does happen. At that exact point is where an infinitude of rebuttals begin. At first professional, then slowly less professional, and eventually we degrade down to personal attack and emotional appeals. This has become, or very nearly become the case with the Skeptiko show. At first the attacks were only coming from the skeptics, but now after about 90 shows, Alex is also fed up and beginning to feed in to the same anger source.
Anyway- this brings us back to me. I found myself, much to my later surprise and dismay, engaged in a debate with a friend who I had forwarded one of the Skeptiko shows to. We were not involved in personal attacks, but the tone of the debate was... cold. And hours later that same evening, as I reflected back upon the day, I saw completely how out of tune with Love I was acting. Which was a cause for some concern on my part. I am seeing now that in my eagerness to follow this great PSI war, and "root for the home team" I have allowed myself to stop seeing every other person as an equal, intelligent and unique whole. My yellow ray chakra was simultaneously vibrating an intense yellow as I typed out (what I think are) rational arguments for the validity of PSI research, while at the same time closing up my green ray chakra like a sturdy clam. Or leaving it gasping like a fish that's been plucked out of the water, slowly reducing down vibration until it was cold to the touch. Now that's not who I want to be. I would much rather be a naive fool in love with the world than an intellectual who has an iron vice on his heart. At the end of the day whether or not a majority of people believe in PSI functioning doesn't change the truth of reality, so why did I allow myself to become so emotionally attached? Did I begin to view attacks on PSI as attacks on ME? Yes.
Further thinking on this... There is a better path. And it doesn't mean that you have to be ignorant or un-intellectual to continue vibrating with a strong green ray. There is a man who demonstrates both. He is Dean Radin, Ph.D. I have listened to hours of him lecturing, interacting with skeptics and responding to attacks on his work. Remarkably, I can't remember a single instance in which he EVER even raised his voice against even the most skeptical person. He always responds in his usual, calm manner. He addresses the concern with his work, and explains why it holds no water. He does not do this in a judgmental or unkind way. Surely this person is vibrating with a very strong green ray center! And to him I can take my example. (in my "bread crumb trail" link you can scroll down to the PSI section where I have about 20-30 dean radin video links, if any are interested)
thanks for reading!
RE: PSI Debate and the Great Yellow Ray Blocker - ayadew - 01-20-2010
session 34 Wrote:Questioner: Thank you. Can you give me the same type of information about the self in relation to the societal self?
Ra: I am Ra. The unmanifested self may find its lessons those which develop any of the energy influx centers of the mind/body/spirit complex. The societal and self interactions most often concentrate upon the [orange] and [yellow] energy centers. Thus those most active in attempting to remake or alter the society are those working from feelings of being correct personally or of having answers which will put power in a more correct configuration. This may be seen to be of a full travel from negative to positive in orientation. Either will activate these energy ray centers.
There are some few whose desires to aid society are of a green ray nature or above. These entities, however, are few due to the understanding, may we say, of [green ray] that universal love freely given is more to be desired than principalities or even the rearrangement of peoples or political structures.
You may find this quote helpful to identify why your yellow ray is blocked, if you change the meaning of "societal self" to "belief structure self".
I have been in the same situation as you, and find myself occasionally now, but less. Recognise that everyone is right, and that the Truth lies in the paradox that both of you are equally right, not in that one of you is 'more' right.
A realization of this will unblock yellow ray deeply.
When you understand that you do not need power to feel powerful, then the yellow chakra is beaming with infinite power. You transcend the limitations of wanting power to accomplish things. This includes 'winning' argumentations.
I currently surround myself with the academic world. Oh dear how many yellow ray blockages there is gathered there. Argumentations here and there, never a chance to appreciate eachother's thoughts and give praise to the creator for all these inventions of thought. No, someone has to be 'right' and theories are weighted against eachother mercilessly and through much misery a 'best' theory is finally presented.
There is loss of power for those who's theories were deemed to be 'less'. There is dominance and gathering of power for those who 'won'. It is a sad sight, and my heart is beaten with catalyst of tragic compassion.
Dean Radin is a rare exception in this world.
Also, it might be helpful to think that there is nothing static in the world. If you, for some reason, were able to figure something out completely, it would change the next moment. The only thing static in the world is change. Thus, 'winning' argumentations is of no value if you live with this realization.
All is consciousness, and consciousness is ever evolving upwards.
RE: PSI Debate and the Great Yellow Ray Blocker - Lorna - 01-20-2010
hey lavazza
there's a quote i find helpful, very similar to what ayadew said - it's actually a manic street preachers album title and it is simply
'this is my truth, tell me yours'
i remind myself of this line every now and again because it reminds me that every one of us has a different truth, we all resonate to different material in different ways because we are all on our own unique journeys. being open to listening to other people's truth can actually be very illuminating, both in helping you to understand and appreciate that other person and in illuminating parts of your own journey.
i'm good friends with a born again christian who only very recently found her faith. we have very different truths, but i love hearing her talk about her faith because although our spiritual paths are very different her enthusiasm and her wholehearted embrace of her faith is truly inspiring.
perhaps those who raise their voices are simply expressing a frustration that others are not aknowledging their truth
RE: PSI Debate and the Great Yellow Ray Blocker - ayadew - 01-20-2010
(01-20-2010, 04:29 PM)Lorna Wrote: perhaps those who raise their voices are simply expressing a frustration that others are not aknowledging their truth
Good one.. thank you
RE: PSI Debate and the Great Yellow Ray Blocker - Lavazza - 01-20-2010
Hey guys,
These are very insightful comments. Ayadew, thank you for that Ra quote. I think it fits very nicely indeed. I've also noticed the "competitive" nature in our scientific system of learning. There are several documentaries about the rise of Quantum Mechanics understandings (some of which are again in my bread crumb list). During that time many, many competing theories were put forth and much the same practice of discrediting warfare ensued. It reminds me very much of how Ra describes the negative path of power seeking, domination and belittlement. Surely there must be a more harmonious way to go about it... with green energy centers open.
Lorna, thank you also! I am a bit confused however by the concept of "all things being true" that you and Ayadew have mentioned. It is also a concept I have heard before, most recently in a channeled book I am reading (bald headed, outspoken channel near the top of my 'entities' column in my list...
). I have a good understanding of the equal validity of truth of different spiritual paths, but what is meant by saying all things are true in relationship to the physical sciences? I do not understand how this could be, unless reference is being made to parallel realities or something "extra-normal".
RE: PSI Debate and the Great Yellow Ray Blocker - ayadew - 01-20-2010
I know it seems like the physical world is static. It is almost.. changing very slowly to our desires. The red ray is the never changing, solid earth which we always can return to when things go bad. It's the safe return to where we can secure our survival. Thus the earth and all physical things may be seen to have laws which seem static.
There is a paradox here though, for we live simultaneously in an objective and subjective world. The objective world is the one we share - the physical. The subjective is the world of the mind, which is unique for all 3rd density entities. So what is 'real'? Both of them, yet they contradict eachother. If a person choses to live more in the physical, exploring it's almost static laws and such, then fine. If a person choses to live in the dream, manifesting whatever they wish in that subjective landscape and being very 'far-out', then fine.
To aknowledge that one does not have to believe in the physical world and it's 'laws' to exist in it, might aid you.
Simultaneously, one does not have to believe in dreams and irrationality to experience fantasy.
RE: PSI Debate and the Great Yellow Ray Blocker - Lorna - 01-20-2010
i'm not sure to be honest, i would tend to think that if someone is fixated on a specific thing being true, even if that contradicts empirical evidence, then there is still truth in that belief to that individual - it is part of how they see their world, part of their reality
RE: PSI Debate and the Great Yellow Ray Blocker - Lavazza - 01-20-2010
I suppose another way of thinking about this is the relationship between the veil and individuals' free will. It occurred to me that the reason why PSI researchers are not able to conclusively prove that PSI exists, while at the same time anti-PSI researchers cannot prove that it does not exist, is due to the fact that these two parties hold these two opposing beliefs. So long as someone somewhere believes one way or the other, that belief will be at least plausibly supported.
I guess I'm not sure how well this would work though. Certainly there have been some cases where some level of free will has been violated by science. For instance, at one point everyone on Earth agreed that the physical geometry of the world was a flat plane. Then discoveries led to the idea that it was instead spherical. But at first a majority of people scoffed at this idea and insisted that it could not possibly be true. Well all of science pointed that it was in-fact round, and finally in recent times we've been able to photograph the earth from space, leaving no doubt whatsoever that the earth is not flat. So I don't know, maybe my theory is no good.
If we're talking about subjective truth, then yes I can easily see how everyone's own unique truth is completely true, for themselves. I guess I still don't understand completely how this could work in a shared physical reality though. I am enjoying trying to figure it out with ya'll though.
Just a bit of a synchronicity here.
http://afterlifefm.podbean.com/2008/08/01/super-psi-me-my-interview-with-dr-dean-radin/
In the last ten minutes of this interview, Radin confirms everything we've been talking about with approaching PSI work with green ray love. In his own words of course
RE: PSI Debate and the Great Yellow Ray Blocker - Questioner - 01-22-2010
(01-20-2010, 12:25 PM)Lavazza Wrote: Hey everyone,
This is sort of an open letter to myself. Feel free to comment, query or otherwise add your thoughts!
Thank you for introducing the topic, Lavazza. Through many experiences with "heartless intellectuals," this whole area has been an area of conflicting experience and self-recrimination in my own life. I can certainly empathize with the consternation.
I admire your skill at tracing the conflict outside of you to how it shows a conflict inside of you, which you then traced to its roots in your own thought process. That's a lot of hard work most people don't want to bother with! As a result they miss out on a deeper ability to choose their own ideas. Instead, they just take on the shape of whichever dominant mold they've been pressed inside most recently.
Here is what I see as the key to the whole matter:
Quote:did I allow myself to become so emotionally attached? Did I begin to view attacks on (my beloved idea) as attacks on ME? Yes.
I've been thinking about some implications if the phrase, "thoughts are things" has some truth to it. This idea implies that ideas and concepts have their own existence, whether or not any person is currently thinking them. If a person has "tuned" their mind/body/spirit complex to receive this thought, then the thought appears in their mind and is available for them to accept as is, or to use as catalyst to inspire them to choose a different thought they would find more harmonious for their own evolution.
If the thought is similar to what the person was already tuned in to thinking, then it's a simple and easy matter to "move the dial over one station," so to speak, to the adjacent idea. If the thought is very different, "on a completely different wavelength," then to think that thought instead of the previous one would require a really big spin of the dial.
People generally don't mind if you bump their mental dial one station over. But they often really resent it if you try to grab the wheel and spin them around to a whole new point of view that they are not ready to accept.
The psi debate is just one example. If consciousness precedes physical existence and the physical is moving into the metaphysical, then it's easy to tune in to the idea that thoughts are things and that nervous systems and chakras can serve as transcievers for energy that doesn't show up on any test equipment from Tektronix or H-P.
But if an amoral, indifferent physical universe randomly evolved consciousness as an artifact of random activity, and consciousness is nothing but a chemical process inside an individual skull in a world that has nothing that can't be explained by science (given enough time), why it's ludicrous to even consider seriously studying psi.
Each of these existing stations has several repeaters on adjacent frequencies, with their very enthusiastic, dedicated listeners. If you try to get them to the far end of the dial, they'll dig in their heels before you get to spin them around!
So the content of the psi debate almost doesn't matter, given the war of clashing worldviews. But psi is a central battle of the war because it has to do with the whole essence of which side is doomed to ultimately lose. Nobody wants to admit that they're on the losing side. If there's anything to psi, than everything based on "hard-nosed" materialism is up for re-evaluation... including the funding and respect hierarchies within the science establishment and the academy.
These issues are central to the identity and livelihood of the skeptics. They get as anxious as someone who just fell off their yacht into the freezing stormy waters!
As with anyone afraid of drowning, their anxieties can get bystanders on the shore to feel as though their feet are also awash. People who have nothing to do with who gets tenure, or who gets a new million dollar research grant, can get caught up in the anger and fear of those who are terrified that they'll lose their ability to make a living.
For both sides, it's not safe to acknowledge, with kindness and respect, the feelings, hopes, and fears of the other side's people about what it might mean to be proved wrong. All of this emotional energy then goes into allegedly logical debates in which the fury leaks out. It's as though you weren't allowed to clean off the kitchen countertop, so whatever you cooked next oozed unexpectedly with yesterday's leftovers. (Can you tell I visited a worse fast food place than Taco Bell today?)
RE: PSI Debate and the Great Yellow Ray Blocker - Lavazza - 01-22-2010
Well summarized, Questioner. Your analogy of the radio dial is spot on. It might be worth while, later on, to create a thread dedicated to the study of why people believe what they do believe. I used to feel that it was mostly about how you were raised, but I have some cause to dismiss that idea now. Not totally dismiss, but at least begin to think that many more factors are at play. Well I'll keep a lid on that for now.
(01-22-2010, 05:21 AM)Questioner Wrote: I've been thinking about some implications if the phrase, "thoughts are things" has some truth to it. This idea implies that ideas and concepts have their own existence, whether or not any person is currently thinking them. If a person has "tuned" their mind/body/spirit complex to receive this thought, then the thought appears in their mind and is available for them to accept as is, or to use as catalyst to inspire them to choose a different thought they would find more harmonious for their own evolution.
Indeed. I think if we take the definition of "thing" as a certain type of vibration, a certain type of frequency, than the analogy works well. If you can bring your own vibration to match close enough to the vibration of a thought (or idea, concept, philosophy) then you will effectively be "buying in to" that thought. Someone who is not of a similar frequency will not be compatible with that same thought, and thus you have two people who do not believe the same thing. Also helpful with the vibration framework is the idea of amplitude of the wave, and how this causes different people to act on different ideas. For example, I am interested in organic foods and am becoming more and more interested in vegetarianism. I'm bringing my vibration in line with that idea, but my "amplifier" for that vibratory idea is still set to a lower level. Now take for example the animal rights activists, hard core vegans and so forth. They have the same vibration, but their amplifiers are cranked way up, the waves of those vibes are spiking up and down.
I'm getting off topic with this idea a bit, but maybe you could say that we all have amplifiers in life that can crank out a certain number of watts. For ease of example, lets say I have a 100 watt amplifier. How I choose to use those watts with different concepts in life (thought forms / ideas / philosophies / personal interests / etc. etc.) will reflect my overall life philosophies and actions. Maybe 50% dedicated to being a father vibration, 20% career vibration, etc. But if you try to crank the dial to 100% on every part of your life, you'll burn out fast, just like a real amp would! Maybe this too can be expanded in to another thread later on.
Anyway, back on track now:
(01-22-2010, 05:21 AM)Questioner Wrote: People generally don't mind if you bump their mental dial one station over. But they often really resent it if you try to grab the wheel and spin them around to a whole new point of view that they are not ready to accept.
Yes. This explains quite well why it can some times take a loooong time for new ideas to become mainstream / accepted. As a matter of fact, I can't remember who said this, but that "Science only progresses with each succeeding generation of scientists." Paraphrased that, but the idea is that new ideas only really take hold once the generation of scientists who are forever apposed die off and are replaced by the younger generation. Sometimes it has to be that way I suppose.
(01-22-2010, 05:21 AM)Questioner Wrote: The psi debate is just one example. If consciousness precedes physical existence and the physical is moving into the metaphysical, then it's easy to tune in to the idea that thoughts are things and that nervous systems and chakras can serve as transcievers for energy that doesn't show up on any test equipment from Tektronix or H-P.
But if an amoral, indifferent physical universe randomly evolved consciousness as an artifact of random activity, and consciousness is nothing but a chemical process inside an individual skull in a world that has nothing that can't be explained by science (given enough time), why it's ludicrous to even consider seriously studying psi.
These contrasting view points quite accurately reflect the basis for the positions. When we look at them in this way it is easy to feel empathy for the "other side" of the debate. Sadly, many people will make up their mind about their position on the issue only once when they first hear about it, and then not open their mind to the idea again. Not all, but many.
(01-22-2010, 05:21 AM)Questioner Wrote: Each of these existing stations has several repeaters on adjacent frequencies, with their very enthusiastic, dedicated listeners. If you try to get them to the far end of the dial, they'll dig in their heels before you get to spin them around!
You can say that again. I wonder, and I again this is probably a better fit for our future "why do people believe what they believe" thread, if perhaps the 'repeaters' of any position on a topic can be likened to our societal model. It seems like we, humans, enjoy taking sides on things. Competitive sports, politics, school yard bullies and the bullied. But I digress, I'll save it for that next topic.
(01-22-2010, 05:21 AM)Questioner Wrote: For both sides, it's not safe to acknowledge, with kindness and respect, the feelings, hopes, and fears of the other side's people about what it might mean to be proved wrong. All of this emotional energy then goes into allegedly logical debates in which the fury leaks out. It's as though you weren't allowed to clean off the kitchen countertop, so whatever you cooked next oozed unexpectedly with yesterday's leftovers. (Can you tell I visited a worse fast food place than Taco Bell today?)
Oh yes, that's it in a nutshell as well. A lot of it does come down to fear- in this case, fear of your worldview being altered. Fear leads to anger... anger leads to hate.. hate leads to... suffering! Sorry, couldn't resist the easy Yoda plug.
On a final note, I'm looking forward to responding to your thread about reality soon, I hope today, although I'm not certain time will permit. And, I'm sincerely sorry to hear about your botched lunch experience. Sounds terrible. Not looking forward to absorbing that once our social memory complex forms, but then again, being in the complex will be cool.
RE: PSI Debate and the Great Yellow Ray Blocker - Questioner - 01-22-2010
(01-22-2010, 12:41 PM)Lavazza Wrote: Indeed. I think if we take the definition of "thing" as a certain type of vibration, a certain type of frequency, than the analogy works well.
Thanks for expanding on the idea, by adding a volume control to my mental radio's tuning knob. That's a better equipped radio, more likely to be next year's hit of CES.
As for your veggie idea, I imagine you are into a peaceful and healthy way of eating. Some of the activists believe that violence is an OK to contradict what they see as previous violence. If your goal is peace, those angry frequencies inside their activism will not appeal to you. Although you might well appreciate some tasty salad recipes from them, you won't follow them up with a Molotov cocktail.
I like the 100% analogy. I think there's more to explore about that, but it should probably wait til we get into the detailed discussion of belief processes that you asked for.
Quote:As a matter of fact, I can't remember who said this, but that "Science only progresses with each succeeding generation of scientists."
That might be the "paradigm shift" from Kuhn's much-discussed but seldom-read Structure of Scientific Revolutions. I can say this because here I am discussing the book but I haven't read it.
Thanks for your kind concern about my lunch. I had to drop off the car for some repairs for a few hours, and didn't want to have to take the bus back home. There was a really bad Mexican fast-food place next door to the car shop. I've had OK food from other shops in the chain. But that one was extremely dirty in the dining room, with not a single table not full of trash on the table and the floor. An employee blocked the public door while he made a personal phone call, ignoring the concept that he could get a broom or leave a clear path for people to walk in. The counter people didn't inspire any more confidence. I decided, if they are this careless about service I can see, what might be hiding in the kitchen that I can't see?
I went a block on down to Taco Bell and actually had a pretty nice snack. It was operated by some kids who seemed to care about conscientious service in a clean environment. I just wished I had a netbook and cellular modem so I could have got online here during that downtime. Then the car was finished an hour earlier than I expected and runs a lot smoother. So it turned out OK.
This concludes the personal anecdote section of my post. Now back to your regularly scheduled paradigm-busting frequency shifter.
RE: PSI Debate and the Great Yellow Ray Blocker - Lavazza - 01-22-2010
(01-22-2010, 02:10 PM)Questioner Wrote: As for your veggie idea, I imagine you are into a peaceful and healthy way of eating. Some of the activists believe that violence is an OK to contradict what they see as previous violence. If your goal is peace, those angry frequencies inside their activism will not appeal to you. Although you might well appreciate some tasty salad recipes from them, you won't follow them up with a Molotov cocktail.
Oh, certainly not. Indeed my interest in a change of diet could never grow, or become so distorted that I would turn to that sort of action. I suppose if we're speaking to turning up the amp on any frequency, it is good to know that there may well be other frequencies that become amplified alongside the on you thought you were manipulating only. Or, maybe that's just where the analogy breaks down and isn't so helpful.
(01-22-2010, 02:10 PM)Questioner Wrote: This concludes the personal anecdote section of my post. Now back to your regularly scheduled paradigm-busting frequency shifter.
You had me laughing out loud with that one, much to the confusion of nearby co-workers