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+--- Thread: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? (/showthread.php?tid=7775)
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how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - Plenum - 08-09-2013
Icaro brought up this point in another thread:
(08-08-2013, 11:21 AM)Icaro Wrote: Forgetting the concepts of evil and terrible acts, in the above a negative person is described as someone who feels others need their guidance and wisdom. The majority of so-called positive spiritual types and your non-spiritual adepts fall into this category. Enlightened people absolutely love to correct others and wake them up in an attempt create order. So simply put, someone who takes catalyst and attempts to control it or guide it is self-serving.
and this is what Ra offers in response to one of Don's questions:
Quote:17.2 Questioner: Is it possible to help an entity to reach fourth-density level in these last days?
Ra: I am Ra.
It is impossible to help another being directly.
It is only possible to make catalyst available in whatever form, the most important being the radiation of realization of oneness with the Creator from the self, less important being information such as we share with you.
this is being the 'example of unity' so that others see what such a light and such a love is. Such a presence is inspiring in itself.
and the passage (with some interim material) ends with:
Quote:"We cannot offer shortcuts to enlightenment. Enlightenment is of the moment, is an opening to intelligent infinity. It can only be accomplished by the self, for the self.
Another self cannot teach/learn enlightenment, but only teach/learn information, inspiration, or a sharing of love, of mystery, of the unknown that makes the other-self reach out and begin the seeking process that ends in a moment, but who can know when an entity will open the gate to the present?"
so what do we do here on the forums? we share information, we share inspiration, we share a love of the mystery.
but what we can't do is learn for someone else, to absolve the karma that is theirs.
namaste
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - Unbound - 08-09-2013
I don't think those that constantly seek to correct others can be considered "enlightened". I have always understood enlightenment to include a deep awareness and compassion for the place others are at. The Buddha would frequently adjust or make up or remove rules in order to best accomodate the learning styles and needs of each of his disciples, just as an example.
Edit: Amusingly I have expressed an apparent correction aha
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - reeay - 08-09-2013
'No man can reveal to you aught but that which already lies half asleep in the dawning of your knowledge.
The teacher who walks in the shadow of the temple, among his followers, gives not of his wisdom but rather of his faith and his lovingness.
If he is indeed wise he does not bid you enter the house of his wisdom, but rather leads you to the threshold of your own mind.' Kahlil Gibran
http://www.katsandogz.com/onteaching.html
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - BrownEye - 08-09-2013
(08-09-2013, 04:26 PM)rie Wrote: 'but rather leads you to the threshold of your own mind.And how does one lead another to this threshold?
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - reeay - 08-09-2013
(08-09-2013, 09:44 PM)BrownEye Wrote:(08-09-2013, 04:26 PM)rie Wrote: 'but rather leads you to the threshold of your own mind.And how does one lead another to this threshold?
Student asks question, teacher responds with a question or a story (or like a buddhist Kōan). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kōan
e.g., Student asks a question, teacher tells funny tale about unseemingly unconnected matter then wishes student good luck on finding answer. Student grumbles teacher did not answer question directly. Student reflects on conversation then finds his/her own answer thru the conversation.
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - GentleReckoning - 08-09-2013
I actually had a conversation about this exact subject with a Buddhist monk here in town over lunch. It came up as I realized that I experienced phenomenally rapid spiritual growth in Thailand, and then essentially lost all experiential progress (nothing is lost) coming back to the U.S. and fitting myself back into my social network.
The reason for this is that Thailand is easily one of the most culturally accepting (and nice!) countries on the planet. This allowed me maximal freewill expression and acceptance in almost all aspects of my life. I come home, and my family tries using love to enslave me back to their dogmatic Christianity, and I revert back to a state that is similarly distorted to where I was before I left.
The monk mentioned that our spiritual development is directly related to the relationships that we have in our life. If all of the mirrors around you only show you negative aspects of yourself, you won't want to show your 'self' to the mirrors around you.
So, the best way to allow others to progress is simply to allow them to express themselves around you in any way they desire and (almost always) honestly react to what they express. Freewill, honesty, and loving acceptance is imo the best way to allow maximal spiritual growth of others.
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - Jeremy - 08-10-2013
This doesn't necessarily mean that one can not guide another no? I mean this would negate the need for any teachers or guides wouldn't it?
Also this must be limited to adults because such a mentality is not valid when one has a child.
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - GentleReckoning - 08-10-2013
Simply offer advice where it is requested. If someone expresses frustration with part of their life, give them your viewpoint. If you feel like they are open to a concept, share yourself passionately.
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - Rake - 08-10-2013
It is my perception that we are always helping others simply by being our highest and most true self. By raising our vibrations we are like an antenna bring in 'higher' vibrations that will no doubt positively effect everyone no matter what path they walk.
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - Diana - 08-10-2013
In my opinion, you help others, and all of existence, by continually evolving and being the very best that you can be. If you are worrying about where someone else is at, you aren't focused on your part in it.
For instance, you are talking to a family member and what they are saying is causing you to trigger (you want to tell them how it "really" is; their lack of honesty is appalling; you want to help them out of their prison of dogma; whatever it is that makes you want to tell them something that can change them). Instead, stay focused on you, and what opportunities are in this situation for you. Perhaps it is an opportunity to learn tolerance. Or an opportunity to communicate from the heart. Just stay focused on you and your own path, and the love will naturally flow from your heart to the other.
Let me add that this is not easy to do, but it is so very worth the effort and vigilance. You'll just know, when you can train yourself to do this, that it is effective for evolution.
The hardest part of it is to rise above the suffering caused by ignorance. But once again, you occupy your mind by focusing on yourself instead of succumbing to the sadness, and in this way create the future of peace and love everyone wants. It takes a lot of discipline and courage. But the intrepid explorers at the cutting edge of progress must always have those qualities.
I don't mean to suggest that I am so evolved. I struggle constantly with this, but I keep going back to point: me.
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - AnthroHeart - 08-10-2013
My path is difficult enough in the spiritual sense. Physically, not so much. That I'd have trouble seeing clearly enough to help someone on their path. But I say just don't worry about it. I do what I feel is right, when I need to do it. And that's all that matters. That's all I can do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZAkOSpVumw
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - Adonai One - 08-10-2013
Even the dead shall rise.
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - michael430 - 08-10-2013
[deleted]
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - zenmaster - 08-10-2013
So why were the people of Maldek so inspired by their collective view of unity to blow up their planet? Yep views of unity are great things to share.
This required intervention so that they could progress again eventually. Is that intervention a form of correction?
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - Unbound - 08-10-2013
Maybe they thought it would be a shortcut to harvest? Aha
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - Spaced - 08-10-2013
My response to the question in the OP is that you can't. You can work on your spiritual path and that may inspire others but ultimately it is them that does the work on their own path.
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - michael430 - 08-10-2013
[deleted]
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - reeay - 08-10-2013
I did something like a 'compassionate subjugation' or variations of intervention when there was imminent danger around me couple of times. Was that a violation of free will?
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - zenmaster - 08-10-2013
(08-10-2013, 07:26 PM)rie Wrote: I did something like a 'compassionate subjugation' or variations of intervention when there was imminent danger around me couple of times. Was that a violation of free will?I'd say seek to "find love within truth". If there's any degree of dilemma with a certain act, then that's catalyst otherwise this truth should be immediately apparent. Not finding love within truth denies the law of responsibility and ultimately will create discord within self, otherself or society.
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - Adonai One - 08-10-2013
(08-10-2013, 05:05 PM)michael430 Wrote:(08-10-2013, 01:26 PM)Adonai One Wrote: Even the dead shall rise.
What?
All life will reach unity with the infinite regardless. All choices and lack of choice evolves an entity. It is the very nature of this realm.
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - zenmaster - 08-10-2013
Within infinity, "grace" allows as long as we want or need. So this experience is "on loan". And there are always consequences to loan defaults. What are the consequences to denial of choice, lack of empowering one's progress?
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - Adonai One - 08-10-2013
We experience for ourselves. We owe ourselves nothing. There is no collateral. Statements of the contrary are illusions and products of human religion.
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - Unbound - 08-11-2013
Well that is strangely dogmatic...
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - michael430 - 08-11-2013
[deleted]
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - BlatzAdict - 08-11-2013
i'm seeing the topic in this thread get derailed or maybe that is just my own distortion.
I'm going through this process of teaching learning and learning teaching now. I have this new student and he keeps asking me these questions constantly a lot of times these are questions which are better answered when asked in a logical sequence. I find that so much of the time there are things that I intrinsically feel, have the hardest time explaining, and know that some of the things he asks me are things I cannot teach him. My automatic response is overwhelmingly to stop teaching together. I'm trying to figure out why I'm reacting that way, sometimes I will do things and not know the reason why I do them.
Like they are automatically things that my higher self decides okay do this without question. Since I have freewill I can question it but I generally don't understand very well why it is i am withholding information in the first place.
my style has been as a result fluctuating and rising with difficulty, much like that master who kept changing his mind that someone mentioned earlier.
I'd agree in that there are some things you just cannot teach people
I'm also writing here to also ask for advice. Because as I understand it the way i'm going about teaching is backwards? so let me give some context:
This guy in the Law of One study group in facebook, it's like he's never read LOO, at least front to back. and i think we've established that he's got add or adhd. After careful review I've found it necessary to give specific activities, which may of come off as being pushy, controlling or service to self. But in the moment of intelligent infinity I kept seeing a disconnect in his very thought line of reasoning. and I could not help but know that the waves in his brain are not or rather his choices in his quality of thoughts is affecting this and making this come to be.
so i suggested or rather i directed, some solfeggio, and the first lesson which was to stare at a dot on the wall for at least 45 seconds without looking away. i wondered if that was wise after reading this thread.
I wonder if I won't be able to teach due to impatience
i want to copy the conversation on to here but i feel it would just make this message unnecessarily long
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - michael430 - 08-11-2013
(08-11-2013, 11:35 AM)BlatzAdict Wrote: i'm seeing the topic in this thread get derailed or maybe that is just my own distortion.
I'm going through this process of teaching learning and learning teaching now. I have this new student and he keeps asking me these questions constantly a lot of times these are questions which are better answered when asked in a logical sequence. I find that so much of the time there are things that I intrinsically feel, have the hardest time explaining, and know that some of the things he asks me are things I cannot teach him. My automatic response is overwhelmingly to stop teaching together. I'm trying to figure out why I'm reacting that way, sometimes I will do things and not know the reason why I do them.
Like they are automatically things that my higher self decides okay do this without question. Since I have freewill I can question it but I generally don't understand very well why it is i am withholding information in the first place.
my style has been as a result fluctuating and rising with difficulty, much like that master who kept changing his mind that someone mentioned earlier.
I'd agree in that there are some things you just cannot teach people
I'm also writing here to also ask for advice. Because as I understand it the way i'm going about teaching is backwards? so let me give some context:
This guy in the Law of One study group in facebook, it's like he's never read LOO, at least front to back. and i think we've established that he's got add or adhd. After careful review I've found it necessary to give specific activities, which may of come off as being pushy, controlling or service to self. But in the moment of intelligent infinity I kept seeing a disconnect in his very thought line of reasoning. and I could not help but know that the waves in his brain are not or rather his choices in his quality of thoughts is affecting this and making this come to be.
so i suggested or rather i directed, some solfeggio, and the first lesson which was to stare at a dot on the wall for at least 45 seconds without looking away. i wondered if that was wise after reading this thread.
I wonder if I won't be able to teach due to impatience
i want to copy the conversation on to here but i feel it would just make this message unnecessarily long
Never stop teaching! What's the purpose of life except to learn/teach and teach/learn? Surely Ra says that a time or five.
I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you except that I know in my heart due to my experience that if we don't teach and learn from each other there's nothing.
Some folks on this forum have a way of puffing up and expressing things that they "know" to be true through magic, channeling, aliens, etc, and I've found that leads to extreme arrogance. If I participated in the derailment of this topic in that way - I'm sorry folks!
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - GentleReckoning - 08-11-2013
You're doing good blatz. Remember that he is teaching you how to teach, just as you are trying to teach him how to learn.
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - BlatzAdict - 08-11-2013
Conversation started Wednesday
3:12pm
Curtis O'Brien
Existence seems like a theatre with few acts remaining. If I had a choice to learn how to speak without words I would take it.
3:18pm
Curtis O'Brien
.
5:08pm
Curtis O'Brien
Just ignore me for a while lol. I have my own distortion to work through
Friday
11:17am
Felix Boen
http://traffic.libsyn.com/thesonsofthelawofone/Episode_Eighty_Four_-_The_Law_of_One_Study_Guide.mp3
11:36am
Felix Boen
i just sent you energy
let me know how it goes
11:39am
Curtis O'Brien
I had a dream where I was trying to make a bridge to a denser part of the earth
I'm watching it now
11:48am
Curtis O'Brien
I never knew how important it is to recognize you ego....
I want to support others with unconditional love
11:54am
Curtis O'Brien
Energy is a vibration of light bending to it's own inertia
12:11pm
Curtis O'Brien
We as a collective are anchoring the frequencies of new consciousness
I remember that bravery is the same as fool hardyness
12:37pm
Curtis O'Brien
The matrix, the siginifier, the potential, the catalyst and the transformation
Does each mark a signature of a dimension of thought?
How to you 'recharge' your polarity?
3:23pm
Curtis O'Brien
Malkabuth is the answer to every red ray issue. Do emotions need to be balanced in any order? Joy is first I get that. Anger is then the pseudo-second and factor determining polarity. Energy is first balanced by associating it to a stimulus such as the brain wave.
3:24pm
Felix Boen
U ask too much
3:43pm
Curtis O'Brien
I don't know how to ask it?
Well the first thing is I choose service to others path
I recognized Malkabuuth as the first word that we need to know.
3:44pm
Felix Boen
malkuth
3:44pm
Curtis O'Brien
mal-kuth?
YOu recharge polarity by releasing anger...
Joy is everpresent because I choose not to be resulting anxiety of a fear based structure.
Energy is the same as light. Strength of intent is determined by both physical and mental exertion
Malkuth is the stimulus of memory need as ever present to balance the red ray to yellow light
3:47pm
Felix Boen
you're speaking to the choir
3:47pm
Curtis O'Brien
I see
3:47pm
Felix Boen
lol
3:47pm
Curtis O'Brien
Am I being helpful?...lol
Let's see when does the energy I am feeling become the default for the planet?
3:48pm
Felix Boen
not really
it's stuff i already know
when you make it your default
3:49pm
Curtis O'Brien
O so we all have our own .....
3:49pm
Felix Boen
lol
we do it now
there is no looking to the future for a utopia
3:49pm
Curtis O'Brien
hi
3:49pm
Felix Boen
or looking to the past
that utopia is now
right now
did you
3:50pm
Curtis O'Brien
yeah It's pretty funny how obvious it is now that I can think about it
3:50pm
Felix Boen
feel the energy i sent you
3:50pm
Curtis O'Brien
Honestly I smoke weed...
o god lol
3:51pm
Felix Boen
so
u should still be able to
3:51pm
Curtis O'Brien
I think the energy you sent was used as support so I could balance the Makuth
malkuth
3:51pm
Felix Boen
lol no
well
maybe that's what it ended up doing
but that's not what i sent
3:51pm
Curtis O'Brien
o what was the intent behind it. I started the lightworker's way too
3:52pm
Felix Boen
it can make it's own decisions which is cool
um
i activated all 7
3:52pm
Curtis O'Brien
light has inertia
3:52pm
Felix Boen
and condensed them to my green ray
3:52pm
Curtis O'Brien
cool
3:52pm
Felix Boen
umm
that's not what i sent either
3:52pm
Curtis O'Brien
Yea I think I had a similar experience, but
3:52pm
Felix Boen
but i did that
3:52pm
Curtis O'Brien
okay
3:53pm
Felix Boen
connected to the core of the earth and the galactic center
and channeled light from the center to the core
and back up the core through my chakras
into my green ray
and into a ball of limited sentience
a helper
and you were sent a portion
3:53pm
Curtis O'Brien
yea that's malkuth....yep...yeah..plus 2 thoughts
3:53pm
Felix Boen
helper/blessing
malkuth is the red ray
3:54pm
Curtis O'Brien
this is so awesome lol
3:54pm
Felix Boen
yes it's part of it but not all
3:54pm
Curtis O'Brien
awe
3:54pm
Felix Boen
it's all the chakras
3:54pm
Curtis O'Brien
is the limit to
3:54pm
Felix Boen
no
my power comes from a balancing only
3:54pm
Curtis O'Brien
just one?
3:54pm
Felix Boen
listen to that podcast
all powers lead from the one source
3:54pm
Curtis O'Brien
I did...oooooo
3:55pm
Felix Boen
the one source is figuring out
3:55pm
Curtis O'Brien
yeah lol
3:55pm
Felix Boen
the balance between the emotional physical and mental worlds
mind body spirit complex
3:55pm
Curtis O'Brien
right now?
oo sub sub logoi
3:55pm
Felix Boen
with everything you are doing
saying
the intent by it
the feelings associated with it
and the reaction to the feelings
3:56pm
Curtis O'Brien
sense of law of confusion being the first idea of telepathic thought by...simple necessatity
3:56pm
Felix Boen
maybe
3:56pm
Curtis O'Brien
lol
3:56pm
Felix Boen
if you get sober first
i don't know
3:57pm
Curtis O'Brien
yeah that never happens by weed
3:57pm
Felix Boen
i get it just fine
weed or no weed
3:57pm
Curtis O'Brien
yeah I reached that point awhile ago
ooooo
lol
3:58pm
Felix Boen
umm yea ok i don't believe you
lol
3:58pm
Curtis O'Brien
learn/teach
teach.....\
lol It seems
3:58pm
Felix Boen
okay that podcast talked about ego a lot
3:59pm
Curtis O'Brien
oooo
I feel foolish but braze...
3:59pm
Felix Boen
do u have add
3:59pm
Curtis O'Brien
no
3:59pm
Felix Boen
or adhd
are you sure?
3:59pm
Curtis O'Brien
yes
I thought you ment add as in 2+2
3:59pm
Felix Boen
when was the last time you meditated
4:00pm
Curtis O'Brien
yesterday. That's seeing through ego right, right to the heart.
I have adhd
4:00pm
Felix Boen
okay
now it makes more sense
your thinking process is like that of light
but not just one ray
4:01pm
Curtis O'Brien
lol sorry. I still learning
4:01pm
Felix Boen
but many
because you think you can cover it all in one sweep
but let me tell you there are worlds within just the one ray
4:01pm
Curtis O'Brien
o
4:01pm
Felix Boen
which is why you need to meditate
4:01pm
Curtis O'Brien
seriously?
4:01pm
Felix Boen
transcendental meditation
where you sit there and think of nothing
and for the adept
i want you to start by visualizing
4:02pm
Curtis O'Brien
yeah just for balance or.....what else...
4:02pm
Felix Boen
draw a dot on the wall
no it's for yoru focus
draw a dot on the wall and stare at it
get a timer
and don't look away
when you catch your eye wander
start over
until you can stare at the one dot on the wall
for at least
4:03pm
Curtis O'Brien
lol this is the fun stuff
4:03pm
Felix Boen
45 seconds
and while you do it
listen to this playlist with headphones
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHM8-mT6CBo&list=PL63F241A5A9E0BF07&feature=mh_lolz
make sure to use headphones
this will help your attention deficit disorder
but it will take some practice
4:04pm
Curtis O'Brien
okay I can't do it this second...lol
4:04pm
Felix Boen
well now you have your first homework assignment
4:04pm
Curtis O'Brien
lol
How do you know all this?
4:04pm
Felix Boen
when you can stare at the dot
for up to 2 minutes
without looking away
or your eyes wandering
then you will be done and i'll give you the next lesson
4:05pm
Curtis O'Brien
okay do you go to school?
4:05pm
Felix Boen
2 minutes is difficult
school for what
4:05pm
Curtis O'Brien
yeah 15 seconds might be hard......college?
4:06pm
Felix Boen
no
thats why i'm only telling you to start and try to get to 45 seconds
4:06pm
Curtis O'Brien
okay lol
4:06pm
Felix Boen
and work up to 2 minutes
i'm not saying to do this all in one go
if you can practice this during this week
at least once every 2 days or once every day
how do i know this
4:07pm
Curtis O'Brien
okay that sounds manageable
yeah?
4:08pm
Felix Boen
http://www.youtube.com/user/BlatzAdict/videos
4:08pm
Curtis O'Brien
You never hide how you feel?
4:08pm
Felix Boen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJy_TJoYGS8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9EMW6Yuasg
from learning it on my own
just do the homework
do your homework
lol
4:11pm
Curtis O'Brien
okay lol Is that how you started?
This is how galactics school are...I know it? I want to go to one....lol cool
4:12pm
Felix Boen
umm
it is not there for you to go to
i am giving it to you to do
so do it
damnit
4:12pm
Curtis O'Brien
okay lol I planning to lol
lol damnit I will
4:13pm
Felix Boen
that is part of focusing
what you just said
will
will is important
4:13pm
Curtis O'Brien
yeah yellow is a foundation ray
4:13pm
Felix Boen
you know how
you ever watch umm
4:14pm
Curtis O'Brien
.....
4:14pm
Felix Boen
karate kid
4:14pm
Curtis O'Brien
a little lol
I remember watching him break the ice
4:14pm
Felix Boen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PycZtfns_U
no that's a bad one
but the staring at the dot thing
that is the same thing
it's going to teach you skills
4:18pm
Curtis O'Brien
lol I will
4:18pm
Felix Boen
so i can teach you skills to build on top of it
that is how you stabilize your red, and yellow ray
just do it
jeesh
4:19pm
Curtis O'Brien
lol I need to find some headphones
4:21pm
Felix Boen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T10ycFr770g
this is a better way
everything is kung fu
then everything is meditation
do you understand
and when everything is.
then you will be aware
you will wake up
when you can pay attention
right now too many things are going through your mind
you need to learn to focus it
and quiet down the voices
because they are running you
instead of you being the boss of your own ship
i can tell when you ask me all of your questions
you never ask me the heart of the question the point of it all which led you to the tangent
anyway
that should hope
help
you're ready for step 2 when you can do 2 minutes
4:30pm
Curtis O'Brien
is the music important?
lol I see I'll play ball
4:38pm
Curtis O'Brien
Do you have fun playing?
4:43pm
Curtis O'Brien
Lol stupid question
4:53pm
Curtis O'Brien
Lol that is à better video
Saturday
3:32pm
Curtis O'Brien
I am ready to listen
3:36pm
Felix Boen
Ur not ready
3:39pm
Curtis O'Brien
yeah I know...
3:48pm
Curtis O'Brien
So everything we experience is like a dance as Ra put it. The moment we experience in it's totality is a vessel. The totality of that is called by Ra a mind body spirit complex.
I need to learn to manage my thoughts and staring at the dot is the tool
3:57pm
Curtis O'Brien
I have difficultity expressing graditude..
4:21pm
Curtis O'Brien
Are soul contracts real?
I'm just putting it in cause why not, if i were in your perspective i'd want to read it lol
when i read through this it's like so many scenes in movies and mostly i think of obi wan and luke lol
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - reeay - 08-11-2013
Personal catalyst is a great teacher.
RE: how can we help someone on their spiritual path? - Unbound - 08-11-2013
Quote:Another self cannot teach/learn enlightenment, but only teach/learn information, inspiration, or a sharing of love, of mystery, of the unknown that makes the other-self reach out and begin the seeking process that ends in a moment, but who can know when an entity will open the gate to the present?
Seems to me you have the right idea, Blatz. One cannot learn/teach for another but we are all capable of teach/learning.