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I want information referring to detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Karl - 12-02-2012
I want information referring to detoxification methods people here have used/heard of.
I want it because I find it interesting and would like to see other people's experience/theories/known-stories about it.
RE: information referring to detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Tenet Nosce - 12-02-2012
Hi Karl-
There are at least six distinct, but interrelated detoxification/biotransformation pathways.
1. Methylation
2. Hydroxylation
3. Oxidation
4. Sulfation
5. Glucuronidation
6. Glutathione conjugation
Each of these pathways does a different job. A given "toxin" may require the use of multiple pathways, in a specific order.
My experience with "detoxification methods" is that most of those promoting these methods have little to no understanding that there are multiple processes to consider, and instead offer a "One-Size-Fits-All" solution. And the general public- also being mostly ignorant about biochemistry- tend to go for whatever they perceive to be the "quick and easy" fix.
In reality- the proper method depends on which pathway(s) need to be supported. That, in turn, depends on which exact toxins have been building up.
Therefore, the only general method I would recommend is to eat as clean a diet as possible, with plenty of fiber. Clean and plentiful water is also essential. Practice deep breathing, and move the body regularly as this engages the lymphatic system.
If you think you require additional support- seek out a professional.
RE: detoxification methods - AnthroHeart - 12-02-2012
I'm using zeolite. Been using it a couple of days. It's supposed to be good for removing heavy metals.
RE: detoxification methods - Tenet Nosce - 12-02-2012
(12-02-2012, 04:29 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: I'm using zeolite. Been using it a couple of days. It's supposed to be good for removing heavy metals.
How did you determine that heavy metals were in need of removal?
I want information referring to detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - AnthroHeart - 12-02-2012
I used to have mercury fillings.
RE: I want information... - unir 1 - 12-02-2012
Fasting, I've used and read about it for detox.
The same thing goes for zeolite (ETS clinoptilite), but I don't remember how well it worked out.
re: detox methods - zenmaster - 12-02-2012
I'm going to try bentonite clay with psyllium husk this week.
RE: detox methods - Monica - 12-02-2012
I've done it all: juicing, fasting, psyllium and other fibers, clay, mono-fruit, raw vegan diet, colonics, herbs, wheatgrass and other superfoods, zeolite, skin brushing, trampoline, lymph drainage, foot pads, foot baths, massage...you name it I've done it!
All of those put together pale in comparison to how powerful drinking ionized water is. It blows everything away. And I've seen this to be true with lots of other people too.
I want information referring to detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - AnthroHeart - 12-02-2012
Well I'm drinking ionized water on top of my detox methods. Though I will drink juices as well.
RE: I wanerring to detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Guardian - 12-02-2012
Infra-red sauna and vitamin C
RE: detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Tenet Nosce - 12-02-2012
(12-02-2012, 06:07 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: I used to have mercury fillings.
Were you having symptoms of mercury toxicity?
(12-02-2012, 07:53 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I've done it all: juicing, fasting, psyllium and other fibers, clay, mono-fruit, raw vegan diet, colonics, herbs, wheatgrass and other superfoods, zeolite, skin brushing, trampoline, lymph drainage, foot pads, foot baths, massage...you name it I've done it!
That sounds like an awful lot of time and money! But I'm sure you got some great experiences from all of that. Anything that you say about these methods in general... do you think any of them are definitely better than the others? Or would does it depend on the person and the circumstance?
Quote:All of those put together pale in comparison to how powerful drinking ionized water is. It blows everything away. And I've seen this to be true with lots of other people too.
How well does it work if people don't take other basic detox measures? Like if people continue to smoke cigarettes, or drink soda pop and alcohol, or eat hamburgers... things like that...
RE: detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Monica - 12-02-2012
(12-02-2012, 08:14 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: That sounds like an awful lot of time and money!
Yes, it was! My husband used to tease me about the health food store in my kitchen! I had so many bottles of various vitamins, etc. I could have opened up shop!
This was over a 25-year period, with most of it during the 15 years I was sick and desperately searching for answers.
(12-02-2012, 08:14 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: But I'm sure you got some great experiences from all of that.
Sure!
(12-02-2012, 08:14 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Anything that you say about these methods in general... do you think any of them are definitely better than the others? Or would does it depend on the person and the circumstance?
Well I'm sure it depends on the person and the circumstance, so I can only speak of my own personal experience, and that of my husband, who did some of these things with me (some, not all!).
The juicing and fasting were definitely effective, but fasting requires some education, to do it properly. I overdid it, which resulted in a slowing down of my metabolism.
Juicing is nourishing as well as detoxifying, and that is something I still do daily. I'm a huge proponent of juicing!
Colonics are unquestionably effective too in jumpstarting the detox process, but they can be overdone. The nutritionist had me coming back 1-3 times per week for 3 years!!! That is waaaaaaay over the top! Especially since I wasn't even very sick! I'd say colonics can be helpful but only for a couple of weeks. After that, the person can get dependent on them - NOT good!
I no longer think colonics are necessary at all, in most cases. I've witnessed people getting such profound detox with just the water, that I no longer see the need for invasive colonics.
The foot bath made me nearly pass out, as did the electric-current lymph drainage. I couldn't handle the current for some reason, though I know other people who swear by both of those. I would never get near either of them, ever again.
The foot pads are controversial. Some say they are a scam. I have no idea. Yes they were wet the next morning, but that could be just sweat interacting with the herbs? I do believe toxins can be expelled from the feet, but I have no idea if those foot pads are actually drawing out toxins. I used them religiously for a couple of weeks and never noticed anything one way or the other.
Detoxifying herbs can be very powerful. I've seen and experienced live toxins being expelled through the skin upon using liver detox herbs. I've also experienced the emotions associated with certain organs getting stirred up by the use of Chinese herbs.
Wheatgrass juice is very potent. But then, so is any green juice. A toxic person could feel nauseated upon drinking a shot of wheatgrass or other green juice. If they feel nauseated, that means they need it!
(12-02-2012, 08:14 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: How well does it work if people don't take other basic detox measures? Like if people continue to smoke cigarettes, or drink soda pop and alcohol, or eat hamburgers... things like that...
That's just it! That's the beauty of this water; it works anyway regardless of diet and lifestyle, with the exception of sodas and sports drinks. Those are so acidic that they cancel each other out. Sodas and sports drinks must be eliminated 100% for the water to work.
People who smoke cigs usually feel nauseated when they drink the water, but if they are trying to quit the cigs and stick it out, the water helps them quit and detoxify the cigarette poisons.
I know plenty of people who eat hamburgers and other junk, and they still get great benefits (like pain relief, lower blood pressure, etc.) but obviously if they change their diet too, the results will be even better.
I don't have much luck getting people to change their diet. It's much easier for them to just drink water. Water is the foundation, since our bodies are 75% water. Then, after they get noticeable benefits from the water, sometimes they are more receptive to making other changes too. Sometimes not, but that's ok.
On the mercury fillings, I think everyone should have them removed, even if they aren't experiencing symptoms. Pieces of old fillings can break off later and get swallowed. And, each time a person chews, vapors can be released. I see no good reason to keep such poisonous substances in the body.
RE: detox methods - zenmaster - 12-02-2012
I'd be leery of ionized-water health claims.
""There is no basis for any health claims at all" for alkaline drinking water, adds Santa Barbara, Calif., gastroenterologist John Petrini, past president of the American Society for Gastrointestinal Endoscopy. After it is digested, food and water goes into the stomach and—no matter what pH it was when it entered—ends up leaving the stomach at a pH of about 6.8, Dr. Petrini says. And no matter what you eat, your body has effective mechanisms to keep your blood in a narrow range between 7.35 and 7.45, he adds."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577314182468322256.html
RE: detox methods - Tenet Nosce - 12-02-2012
(12-02-2012, 09:04 PM)zenmaster Wrote: I'd be leery of ionized-water health claims.
""There is no basis for any health claims at all" for alkaline drinking water, adds Santa Barbara, Calif., gastroenterologist John Petrini, past president of the American Society for Gastrointestinal Endoscopy. After it is digested, food and water goes into the stomach and—no matter what pH it was when it entered—ends up leaving the stomach at a pH of about 6.8, Dr. Petrini says. And no matter what you eat, your body has effective mechanisms to keep your blood in a narrow range between 7.35 and 7.45, he adds."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577314182468322256.html
I thought most of the health claims were about ORP, not alkalinity.
RE: detox methods - Monica - 12-02-2012
(12-02-2012, 09:04 PM)zenmaster Wrote: I'd be leery of ionized-water health claims.
""There is no basis for any health claims at all" for alkaline drinking water, adds Santa Barbara, Calif., gastroenterologist John Petrini, past president of the American Society for Gastrointestinal Endoscopy. After it is digested, food and water goes into the stomach and—no matter what pH it was when it entered—ends up leaving the stomach at a pH of about 6.8, Dr. Petrini says. And no matter what you eat, your body has effective mechanisms to keep your blood in a narrow range between 7.35 and 7.45, he adds."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577314182468322256.html
This John Petrini clearly isn't educated about ionized water. Doctors who are ignorant of this technology always pull out the "but you can't change blood pH" card which is true, but ionized water doesn't change blood pH - it changes the pH of bodily fluids. They also pull out the "it can't survive stomach acid" card which, again, shows they are ignorant of this water. While inferior alkaline waters can cause bloating and impair digestion, medical-grade ionized water is absorbed instantly and most of it doesn't even reach the stomach - most of it is absorbed in the esophagus.
Quote:Prof. Kogure Keizou, Kogure Clinic of Juntendo Hospital
"The stomach is readily upset both by diseases affecting the stomach and by other general illnesses. In addition, any nervous tension or anxiety frequently causes gastric upset, vague symptoms when This information is under some strain.
The important role of antioxidant water in our stomach is to neutralize the secretion and strengthen it s functions. Usually, after consuming the antioxidant water for 1 to 3 minutes, the gastric juice increase to 1½ times. For those suffering from hypochlorhydria or achlorhydria ( low in gastric juice ) the presence of antioxidant water will stimulate the stomach cells to secrete more gastric juice. This in turn enhances digestion and absorption of minerals.
However, on the other hand, those with hyperchlorhydria ( high in gastric juice ), the antioxidant water neutralizes the excessive gastric juice. Hence, it does not create any adverse reaction.
According to the medical lecturer from Maeba University, the pH of the gastric secretion will still remain normal when antioxidant water is consumed. This proves that the ability of the antioxidant water is able to neutralize as well as to stimulate the secretion."
Clinical Impovements Obtained From The Intake Of Reduced Water
Extracts from " Presentation At The Eight Annual International Symposium On man And His Environment in Health And Disease" on February 24th 1990, at The Grand Kempinski Hotel, Dalls, Texas, USA by Dr. H. Hayashi, M.D. and Dr. M Kawamura, M.D., on : -
THE CONCEPT OF PREHEPATIC MEDICINES
Since the introduction of alkaline ionic water in our clinic in 1985, we have had the following interesting clinical experiences in the use of this type of water. By the use of alkaline ionic water for drinking and the preparation of meals for our in-patients, we have noticed :
Declines in blood sugar levels in diabetic patients.
Improvements in peripheral circulation in diabetic gangrene.
Declines in uric acid levels in patients with gout.
Improvements in liver function exams in hepatic disorders.
Improvements in gastroduodenal ulcer and prevention of their recurrences.
Improvements in hypertension and hypotension.
Improvements in allergic disorders such as asthma, urticaria, rhinites and atopic dermatitis.
Improvements in persistent diarrhoea which occurred after gastrectomy.
Quicker improvements in post operative bower paralysis.
Improvements in serum bilirubin levels in new born babies.
Being confirming clinical improvements, we have always observed changes of stools of the patients, with the colour of their feaces changing from black-brown colour to a brigher yellow-brown one, and the odour of their feaces becoming almost negligible.
The number of patients complaining of constipation also decreased markedly. The change of stool findings strongly suggests that alkaline ionic water intake can decrease the production of putrefield or pathogenic metabolites.
Devices to produce reduced water were introduced into our clinic in May 1985. Based on the clinical experiences obtained in the past 15 years, it can be said that introduction of electrolyzed-reduced water for drinking and cooking purpose for in-patients should be the very prerequisite in our daily medical practices. Any dietary recipe cannot be a scientific one if property of water is not taken by the patients is not taken into consideration.
The Ministry of Health and Welfare in Japan announced in 1965 that the intake of reduced water is effective for restoration of intestinal flora metabolism.
There's tons more medical research where that came from. Bottom line is that the abundance of medical research can't be disputed. Not to mention tons of clinical evidence.
(12-02-2012, 09:17 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I thought most of the health claims were about ORP, not alkalinity.
Researchers are still trying to isolate which property of the water is responsible for the dramatic health benefits. So far, it appears that the microclustering is the most important, though alkalinity and ORP are important also. Inferior machines can produce alkalinity and negative ORP ut fail to get the same results, presumably because they aren't microclustered. And the various pills, potions, powders and gadgets might produce 1 or 2 of the properties but not all 3.
RE: detox methods - zenmaster - 12-02-2012
(12-02-2012, 09:46 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:So the ionized water actually does leave the stomach at a different pH than 6.8?(12-02-2012, 09:04 PM)zenmaster Wrote: I'd be leery of ionized-water health claims.
""There is no basis for any health claims at all" for alkaline drinking water, adds Santa Barbara, Calif., gastroenterologist John Petrini, past president of the American Society for Gastrointestinal Endoscopy. After it is digested, food and water goes into the stomach and—no matter what pH it was when it entered—ends up leaving the stomach at a pH of about 6.8, Dr. Petrini says. And no matter what you eat, your body has effective mechanisms to keep your blood in a narrow range between 7.35 and 7.45, he adds."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577314182468322256.html
This John Petrini clearly isn't educated about ionized water. Doctors who are ignorant of this technology always pull out the "but you can't change blood pH" card which is true, but ionized water doesn't change blood pH - it changes the pH of bodily fluids.
RE: detox methods - Monica - 12-02-2012
(12-02-2012, 10:09 PM)zenmaster Wrote: So the ionized water actually does leave the stomach at a different pH than 6.8?
Petrini seemed to be implying that there is no change whatsoever; ie. that the water does nothing.
That's not true. Studies show the water can either stimulate stomach secretions, or neutralize excess stomach secretions. It will bring about balance.
Petrini also mentions blood pH, which is irrelevant, showing that he isn't educated about this water. It's a straw man argument, since no one is claiming that ionized water changes blood pH. It's not about blood pH at all. The body will rob minerals from the rest of the body to buffer excess acidity in the blood, in order to keep it at a very narrow range. It's the rest of the body that is affected by ionized water, not the blood pH.
I see this all the time: doctors making statements about ionized water when they clearly don't know much about it.
Moo - Karl - 12-03-2012
What would you define as medical grade ionized water? I've had distilled water with minerals added back into which worked well but I've never heard of water that get absorbed before it reaches the stomach.
Never mind I found the link to it. I don't believe it. Seems like the same thing can be achieved with a water distiller and remineralizing/electrolyte drops.
RE: Moo - Monica - 12-03-2012
(12-03-2012, 12:05 AM)Karl Wrote: What would you define as medical grade ionized water? I've had distilled water with minerals added back into which worked well but I've never heard of water that get absorbed before it reaches the stomach.
Please pm me.
RE: detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Tenet Nosce - 12-03-2012
(12-02-2012, 08:53 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Yes, it was! My husband used to tease me about the health food store in my kitchen! I had so many bottles of various vitamins, etc. I could have opened up shop!
You might be surprised to learn how few supplements we regularly take! Although not too long ago I wanted to see what I could put together as a generic supplement protocol for digestive health. I definitely saw some improvements, but then again I don't have severe digestive symptoms.
When it comes to making recommendations to others I try to be cognizant of not including anything which isn't specifically indicated for a particular symptom or test finding so as not to waste their money.
Quote:The juicing and fasting were definitely effective, but fasting requires some education, to do it properly. I overdid it, which resulted in a slowing down of my metabolism.
Yeah- overdoing a fast can cause the metabolism to slow down. Especially if muscle loss starts to occur due to protein deficiency. I think it is also important to be able to fast in a relaxed environment. I'm not sure how helpful it is to try and fast in the hustle and bustle of typical American living.
Quote:Juicing is nourishing as well as detoxifying, and that is something I still do daily. I'm a huge proponent of juicing!
I love juicing beets and greens. Actually, now that I think about it, that would be the kind of juice I would recommend for general detoxing.
Quote:Colonics are unquestionably effective too in jumpstarting the detox process, but they can be overdone.
I had to have one done in order to graduate. I wasn't too thrilled about out, but I had some allergy symptoms leave and never come back after just that one treatment!
Quote:The nutritionist had me coming back 1-3 times per week for 3 years!!!
HOLY CRAP!!!
I can't imagine doing anything 1-3 times per week for 3 years much less colonics! Were you concerned about overdoing it at the time? The nutritionist apparently thought this was fine...?Quote:Especially since I wasn't even very sick! I'd say colonics can be helpful but only for a couple of weeks. After that, the person can get dependent on them - NOT good!
How did they manage to convince you that you needed 3 years of colonics if you weren't even very sick?!
Quote:But then, so is any green juice.
Or green anything for that matter!
Quote:That's just it! That's the beauty of this water; it works anyway regardless of diet and lifestyle, with the exception of sodas and sports drinks.
Do you know of any examples where somebody was pretty skeptical, and also didn't make diet or lifestyle changes, and still got great results?
Quote:I don't have much luck getting people to change their diet.
Tell me about it. :-/
Quote:It's much easier for them to just drink water. Water is the foundation, since our bodies are 75% water. Then, after they get noticeable benefits from the water, sometimes they are more receptive to making other changes too. Sometimes not, but that's ok.
Have they done any studies comparing ionized water to filtered water? Drinking more water in general would probably benefit a lot of people.
Quote:On the mercury fillings, I think everyone should have them removed, even if they aren't experiencing symptoms. Pieces of old fillings can break off later and get swallowed. And, each time a person chews, vapors can be released. I see no good reason to keep such poisonous substances in the body.
I thought I had heard there is also some risk of exposure when getting them removed. Plus, isn't that an expensive procedure? I guess it would depend how much total mercury was in the mouth and how well the detox processes were otherwise functioning.
(12-02-2012, 09:46 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Researchers are still trying to isolate which property of the water is responsible for the dramatic health benefits. So far, it appears that the microclustering is the most important, though alkalinity and ORP are important also. Inferior machines can produce alkalinity and negative ORP ut fail to get the same results, presumably because they aren't microclustered. And the various pills, potions, powders and gadgets might produce 1 or 2 of the properties but not all 3.
How is the microclustering measured?
(12-02-2012, 10:21 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: It's a straw man argument, since no one is claiming that ionized water changes blood pH.
When in 4D do you suppose people will either finally learn how to recognize a strawman argument, or just stop using them altogether? I get the feeling this skill would be necessary in order to form a cohesive social memory complex.
RE: detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Monica - 12-03-2012
(12-03-2012, 12:53 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: You might be surprised to learn how few supplements we regularly take! Although not too long ago I wanted to see what I could put together as a generic supplement protocol for digestive health. I definitely saw some improvements, but then again I don't have severe digestive symptoms.
I don't take many supplements any more. Mostly superfoods and a few herbs, seaweeds, iodine (temporarily) and probiotics.
I'm learning to ferment my own foods though, so maybe can let go of the probiotics once I'm doing that.
I'd be interested in hearing of your generic digestive protocol!
(12-03-2012, 12:53 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: When it comes to making recommendations to others I try to be cognizant of not including anything which isn't specifically indicated for a particular symptom or test finding so as not to waste their money.
That's very conscientious of you!
I dislike when practitioners try to sell their entire product line to every patient. (12-03-2012, 12:53 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Yeah- overdoing a fast can cause the metabolism to slow down. Especially if muscle loss starts to occur due to protein deficiency. I think it is also important to be able to fast in a relaxed environment. I'm not sure how helpful it is to try and fast in the hustle and bustle of typical American living.
I used to fast and go to work, in a fairly high-stress job in IT. I wouldn't do that now.
(12-03-2012, 12:53 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I had to have one done in order to graduate. I wasn't too thrilled about out, but I had some allergy symptoms leave and never come back after just that one treatment!
Oh that's funny that it was a requirement for graduation! I like that - at least the practitioner wouldn't be recommending something s/he hadn't already experienced!
(12-03-2012, 12:53 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: HOLY CRAP!!!
Holy Crap is right!!! Not one of the smartest things I've ever done!
(12-03-2012, 12:53 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Were you concerned about overdoing it at the time? The nutritionist apparently thought this was fine...?
Oh yes! I timidly (I was timid back then, believe it or not!) questioned her about it, and she said "being dependent on colonics is better than being toxic." (direct quote!)
Which of course, is insane!
(12-03-2012, 12:53 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: How did they manage to convince you that you needed 3 years of colonics if you weren't even very sick?!
I was young, naive, and starry-eyed. She was a Christian pastor with major control issues. I started seeing her at age 20 for female problems and sinus headaches, and she helped me get out of a dysfunctional relationship, and ended up being my spiritual mentor. It took me 3 years to realize that I didn't need a guru and to disentangle myself from her. shudder
She told me at one point that she herself was dependent on colonics. Creepy! It was then that I realized "This is as far as I'm going to follow this crazy person."
My husband caught her eating a Whopper cheeseburger and confronted her about it. She said "My patients can't eat this, but I can!"
That really turned him off. (I was away from her by then.)
She didn't teach people how to have a healthy lifestyle; she just kept them dependent.
Whenever I think of her, I think of those 2 Wanderers who woke up 'disconcerted' to realize they'd graduated STS. I can't help but wonder about this woman, who truly believes she is "God's servant" yet fails to see how controlling she is.
(12-03-2012, 12:53 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Do you know of any examples where somebody was pretty skeptical, and also didn't make diet or lifestyle changes, and still got great results?
Oh sure! Lots! They just have to be willing to drink enough of the water, and not drink sodas or sports drinks. They can still be skeptical. The water works. It isn't placebo.
(12-03-2012, 12:53 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Tell me about it. :-/
(12-03-2012, 12:53 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Have they done any studies comparing ionized water to filtered water? Drinking more water in general would probably benefit a lot of people.
I hear that all the time, especially from doctors.
They say "People got those results because they drank more water...any water would do." but that simply isn't the case. I'm not sure about human studies, but there are plenty of animal studies, comparing animals drinking other water vs ionized water.
And I know of lots of people who were already water drinkers, myself included, who didn't increase the amount of water...only the type of water.
(12-03-2012, 12:53 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I thought I had heard there is also some risk of exposure when getting them removed.
That's true. It's important to go to a dentist skilled at removing mercury fillings. There are techniques to prevent exposure during the removal process.
I had all mine removed with no problems. The dentist used a rubber dam, though there are other aspects to the protocol too.
(12-03-2012, 12:53 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Plus, isn't that an expensive procedure? I guess it would depend how much total mercury was in the mouth and how well the detox processes were otherwise functioning.
I don't remember it being that expensive, but it was almost 30 years ago, so I'm not sure how much it would be now.
(12-03-2012, 12:53 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: How is the microclustering measured?
Exact measurement is done in a lab.
For demonstration purposes, we put a teabag in our water (room temperature) and it makes tea instantly. We then pull the teabag out and make another cup of tea...the same teabag can make at least 20-30 cups of tea, in our water. The reduced surface tension pulls out more of the nutrients.
We can drink an entire liter of water fresh from the machine, without any bloating or sloshing whatsoever. Water from competitors, even with the same pH and ORP, causes bloating because it has very little microclustering.
Stir a teaspoon of chlorella or bluegreen algae into water from a competitor, and 1/2 hour later it will have settled at the bottom. Whereas, in our water, it will stay suspended.
(12-03-2012, 12:53 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: When in 4D do you suppose people will either finally learn how to recognize a strawman argument, or just stop using them altogether? I get the feeling this skill would be necessary in order to form a cohesive social memory complex.
Let's hope that in 4D people are no longer trying to outdo others at all!
RE: detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Tenet Nosce - 12-03-2012
(12-03-2012, 02:38 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I'd be interested in hearing of your generic digestive protocol!
pm me
Quote:That's very conscientious of you!
Yes, me too. That and when they use a "proprietary" system of diagnosis that can't easily be replicated by other practitioners. Or worse... one of those "quantum" machines that can supposedly read your subtle energy fields.
Quote:My husband caught her eating a Whopper cheeseburger and confronted her about it. She said "My patients can't eat this, but I can!"
Sounds like a guru to me!
Quote:She didn't teach people how to have a healthy lifestyle; she just kept them dependent.
Weird. I guess she didn't really take those lessons from Jesus to heart.
Quote:who truly believes she is "God's servant" yet fails to see how controlling she is.
Elitism and control issues can be very subtle. But then again- it takes a very high level of balancing to be free of yellow/orange ray distortions. We all have them to some degree, wouldn't you say?
Plus I think it is easy for Christians to get blocked in green ray. Think about it- they not only have to accept lies and tell them to others, but are generally encouraged to ignore their own inner wisdom, or in extreme cases to completely substitute somebody else's conscience and ethical system for their own!
So I can see why there would be a propensity to block green ray. Remember, once the energy hits green ray it flows naturally into blue and indigo... and those with strong blue/indigo wouldn't make very "good" Christians at all...
Quote:It isn't placebo.
There's a placebo component to everything! But yes, it does definitely sound like there is something more going on there than mere placebo if skeptics are noticing results.
Quote:I hear that all the time, especially from doctors.
It's true that drinking more water (even fluoridated tap!) would probably benefit most people to some degree. But to conclude that there must be no additional benefit to ionized water would be a logical fallacy.
Also- give those docs a break!
As I'm sure you know there are so many different machines out there and so many people making unsubstantiated claims. How can anybody ever make sense of it all?!Do you ever get frustrated by all those cranks selling waters that don't do what they say they do?
Quote:Let's hope that in 4D people are no longer trying to outdo others at all!
Sadly, I'm not sure that is the case. At least not until late 4D, after the social memory complex is well-formed.
25.9 Wrote:Questioner: Would an entity of this density be more effective for this work than an entity of density five or six?
Ra: I am Ra. The fourth density is the only density besides your own which, lacking the wisdom to refrain from battle, sees the necessity of the battle. Thus it is necessary that fourth-density social memory complexes be used.
I'm curious to know your take on this quote...?
The subject is too long. Please enter a subject shorter than 85 characters (mods...) - Cyan - 12-03-2012
This may sound silly.
But when i really really need to detox, I just let my body get ill.
I lie in bed with a high fever, sweating everything out, unable to eat, but thirsty for clean water, have a stomach flu and after it all, i feel quite refreshed and clean. Dunno.
If you are looking for a more natural way of detoxing.
Increase mineral/vitamin.
Increase water.
Increase exercise.
Decrease weight
Decrease junkfood
Decrease immobility
Decrease TV/Interent
Increase solitude
Increase creative
Increase listening
All in all, thankfulness and cleanlyness and creativity and exercise usually solve about 75-90% of detoxing, the rest is element or mineral or system specific. For example, it is exceedingly difficult to purify certain heavier elements by simply fasting as they "fall deeper as the surface layers peel away"
RE: detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Monica - 12-03-2012
(12-03-2012, 02:24 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Yes, me too. That and when they use a "proprietary" system of diagnosis that can't easily be replicated by other practitioners. Or worse... one of those "quantum" machines that can supposedly read your subtle energy fields.
I'm with you on that! It's a pet peeve of mine whenever I've gone to a practitioner and s/he says to discontinue all supplements I was already taking and switch over to their brand, with no regard for how much $$ I'd already spent or the possibility that some of those supplements might suffice just fine.
I recently bought some Chinese herbs from dragonherbs.com and it was quite refreshing that the practitioners gave free consultations and were happy to go over the ingredients of the herbal formulas I already had, to avoid any duplication. No one had ever been willing to do that with me before!
(12-03-2012, 02:24 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Weird. I guess she didn't really take those lessons from Jesus to heart.
She believed herself to be Moses reincarnated. (Yes she secretly believed in reincarnation, though she'd never admit it publicly.)
Which is fine, but she still had this "I am the leader" mentality.
(12-03-2012, 02:24 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Elitism and control issues can be very subtle. But then again- it takes a very high level of balancing to be free of yellow/orange ray distortions. We all have them to some degree, wouldn't you say?
That is a given.
(12-03-2012, 02:24 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Plus I think it is easy for Christians to get blocked in green ray. Think about it- they not only have to accept lies and tell them to others, but are generally encouraged to ignore their own inner wisdom, or in extreme cases to completely substitute somebody else's conscience and ethical system for their own!
So I can see why there would be a propensity to block green ray. Remember, once the energy hits green ray it flows naturally into blue and indigo... and those with strong blue/indigo wouldn't make very "good" Christians at all...
That could be a whole 'nother topic that I don't have time to get into right now. You know I'm with you on that!
(12-03-2012, 02:24 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: There's a placebo component to everything!
Everything? Dogs? Cats? Horses? Mice? Rats? Babies? Young children?
(12-03-2012, 02:24 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: But yes, it does definitely sound like there is something more going on there than mere placebo if skeptics are noticing results.
Skeptics, dogs, cats, horses, babies, children, lab rats and lab mice.
(12-03-2012, 02:24 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: It's true that drinking more water (even fluoridated tap!) would probably benefit most people to some degree. But to conclude that there must be no additional benefit to ionized water would be a logical fallacy.
Yes! But they sure do it a lot.
(12-03-2012, 02:24 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Also- give those docs a break!
Easy. Just do their due diligence. It isn't hard to figure out, with the proper information, that we readily supply. It can withstand scrutiny and the doctors who do scrutinize it usually come around.
I've observed that the doctors (MDs) who scrutinize it usually are impressed by the research and often buy the machine for themselves or their staff, but are afraid to offer it to their patients, for fear of getting in trouble and losing their licenses. I've sold machines to a number of MDs.
Alternative practitioners, on the other hand, are usually more resistant, because they are already so embedded in some protocol. I believe many of them turn it down because (perhaps subconsciously) they are afraid of being put out of business.
(12-03-2012, 02:24 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Do you ever get frustrated by all those cranks selling waters that don't do what they say they do?
Who me? Frustrated? Nah...
Seriously, I'm beyond frustrated. I've had to work through the phases of anger, frustration and disgust, to a place of acceptance. Else, I wouldn't be able to do this business. Applying Law of One principles has helped a great deal. In the early days, I would just want to scream at them "How do you sleep at night??? Knowing that your DISinfo could cause someone to DIE who otherwise might have been healed? ...knowing that if they buy your cheap junk they might DIE whereas if they bought our medical-grade machine they might LIVE? How do you live with yourself?"
But of course I can't do that. So I've had to just accept that those who choose healing will find our machine, and those who fall for the slick advertising of the junk, have, on some level, chosen illness and maybe even death.
(12-03-2012, 02:24 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I'm curious to know your take on this quote...?
I had always interpreted that to mean emotional and spiritual battles, rather than bloody wars. I hope I wasn't wrong on that, because that would totally suck if 4D still has rampant violence. How would that be any better than 3D, in that case?
RE: detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Tenet Nosce - 12-03-2012
(12-03-2012, 04:26 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I'm with you on that! It's a pet peeve of mine whenever I've gone to a practitioner and s/he says to discontinue all supplements I was already taking and switch over to their brand, with no regard for how much $$ I'd already spent or the possibility that some of those supplements might suffice just fine.
It can be a tough balancing act. For example, many people who come to see me have already tried- or are taking- probiotics. But often times I would recommend different strains, a different dose, or both.
I usually leave it up to the patient to decide. I just give them the best theory and recommendations I feel I can muster. I like to have DNA microbiome analysis done whenever possible... but insurance doesn't always cover it and the test is $500 out-of-pocket.
You probably wouldn't be surprised to learn that a fair amount of people just want me to "tell them what to do." Those tend to be the most frustrating cases...
Quote:Which is fine, but she still had this "I am the leader" mentality.
I just always found that so strange... didn't Jesus teach that the "Kingdom of God" is within us, and not to trust anybody that encourages us to look outside of ourselves?
Quote:Everything? Dogs? Cats? Horses? Mice? Rats? Babies? Young children?
No no... I meant "everything" to apply to every treatment. Not everybody that receives the treatment.
Quote:Alternative practitioners, on the other hand, are usually more resistant, because they are already so embedded in some protocol. I believe many of them turn it down because (perhaps subconsciously) they are afraid of being put out of business.
Yeah- that's why I am leery of developing a formal protocol. But I do like options... and for the same price as my initial visit a person could get my "Gut Rehab Kit" and try it out for two weeks. It's not something that is meant for people to be on forever and ever.
Also, I think you might be onto something with the fear of losing business by getting people well. I think that applies across the board- to both mainstream and alternative practitioners.
It is one of the reasons why we started another business. The practice only provides about 15% of our total income... just enough to pay for itself and my student loan bills. And of that income, only about 15% is from the actual sale of supplements.
I freaking HATE promoting my practice. Usually, I just write articles and do SEO on my website, and people find me through the Internet or word of mouth. But it can be frustrating knowing that there are all these other practitioners out there who have no scruples about playing the Pied Piper with their patients....
Quote:Knowing that our DISinfo could cause someone to DIE who otherwise might have been healed?
I know what you mean! That is exactly how I feel when people from the raw juicing community encourage everybody- especially very sickly and weak people- to consume massive amounts of fructose, and dangerously low quantities of protein. It's like... don't they even CARE enough to understand the basic nutritional needs of the human body before guru-fying themselves all over the Internet?!
Quote:So I've had to just accept that those who choose healing will find our machine, and those who fall for the slick advertising of the junk, have, on some level, chosen illness and maybe even death.
Yup. It all comes down to acceptance and control.
Quote:I had always interpreted that to mean emotional and spiritual battles, rather than bloody wars. I hope I wasn't wrong on that, because that would totally suck if 4D still has rampant violence. How would that be any better than 3D, in that case?
Oh gosh yes... I am quite sure the bloody wars will end! And besides... once fully established in 4D... will bodies even have blood?!
But you were talking about people trying to outdo each other... so that's what I was getting at... emotional and mental battles.
I dunno about spiritual battles though... what would that even mean? A love v. light "deathmatch"?!
I want information referring to detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Ankh - 12-03-2012
(12-02-2012, 04:10 PM)Karl Wrote: I want information referring to detoxification methods people here have used/heard of.
I want it because I find it interesting and would like to see other people's experience/theories/known-stories about it.
Since you are in the Law of One forum, here you go
Ra Wrote:40.14 Questioner: In dietary matters, what would be the foods that one would include and what would be the foods that one would exclude in a general way for the greatest care of one’s bodily complex?
Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, we underline and emphasize that this information is not to be understood literally but as a link or psychological nudge for the body and the mind and spirit. Thus it is the care and respect for the self that is the true thing of importance. In this light we may iterate the basic information given for this instrument’s diet. The vegetables, the fruits, the grains, and to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism, the animal products. These are those substances showing respect for the self. In addition, though this has not been mentioned, for this instrument is not in need of purification, those entities in need of purging the self of a poison thought-form or emotion complex do well to take care in following a program of careful fasting until the destructive thought-form has been purged analogously with the by-products of ridding the physical vehicle of excess material. Again you see the value not to the body complex but used as a link for the mind and spirit. Thus self reveals self to self.
Ra Wrote:41.21 Questioner: You mentioned in the last session the concept of fasting for removing unwanted thought-forms. Can you expand on this process and explain a little bit more about how this works?
Ra: I am Ra. This, as all healing techniques, must be used by a conscious being; that is, a being conscious that the ridding of excess and unwanted material from the body complex is the analogy to the ridding of mind or spirit of excess or unwanted material. Thus the one discipline or denial of the unwanted portion as an appropriate part of the self is taken through the tree of mind down through the trunk to subconscious levels where the connection is made and thus the body, mind, and spirit, then in unison, express denial of the excess or unwanted spiritual or mental material as part of the entity.
All then falls away and the entity, while understanding, if you will, and appreciating the nature of the rejected material as part of the greater self, nevertheless, through the action of the will purifies and refines the mind/body/spirit complex, bringing into manifestation the desired mind complex or spirit complex attitude.
41.22 Questioner: Then would this be like a conscious reprogramming of catalyst? For instance, for some entities catalyst is programmed by the Higher Self to create experiences so that the entity can release itself from unwanted biases. Would this be analogous then to the entity consciously programming this release and using fasting as the method of communication to itself?
Ra: I am Ra. This is not only correct but may be taken further. The self, if conscious to a great enough extent of the workings of this catalyst and the techniques of programming, may through concentration of the will and the faculty of faith alone cause reprogramming without the analogy of the fasting, the diet, or other analogous body complex disciplines.
RE: information referring to detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Tenet Nosce - 12-03-2012
Thanks for the quotes, Ankh! I find it fascinating how our mind is drawn to different parts of quotes, depending upon our biases. For example, I might have underlined different sections of these:
Ra Wrote:40.14 Questioner: In dietary matters, what would be the foods that one would include and what would be the foods that one would exclude in a general way for the greatest care of one’s bodily complex?
Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, we underline and emphasize that this information is not to be understood literally but as a link or psychological nudge for the body and the mind and spirit. Thus it is the care and respect for the self that is the true thing of importance. In this light we may iterate the basic information given for this instrument’s diet. The vegetables, the fruits, the grains, and to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism, the animal products. These are those substances showing respect for the self. In addition, though this has not been mentioned, for this instrument is not in need of purification, those entities in need of purging the self of a poison thought-form or emotion complex do well to take care in following a program of careful fasting until the destructive thought-form has been purged analogously with the by-products of ridding the physical vehicle of excess material. Again you see the value not to the body complex but used as a link for the mind and spirit. Thus self reveals self to self.
Ra Wrote:41.21 Questioner: You mentioned in the last session the concept of fasting for removing unwanted thought-forms. Can you expand on this process and explain a little bit more about how this works?
Ra: I am Ra. This, as all healing techniques, must be used by a conscious being; that is, a being conscious that the ridding of excess and unwanted material from the body complex is the analogy to the ridding of mind or spirit of excess or unwanted material. Thus the one discipline or denial of the unwanted portion as an appropriate part of the self is taken through the tree of mind down through the trunk to subconscious levels where the connection is made and thus the body, mind, and spirit, then in unison, express denial of the excess or unwanted spiritual or mental material as part of the entity.
All then falls away and the entity, while understanding, if you will, and appreciating the nature of the rejected material as part of the greater self, nevertheless, through the action of the will purifies and refines the mind/body/spirit complex, bringing into manifestation the desired mind complex or spirit complex attitude.
Interesting... didn't they suggest that acceptance is the key to positive polarization? I don't believe they discussed the spiritual value of rejection all that much...
Quote:41.22 Questioner: Then would this be like a conscious reprogramming of catalyst? For instance, for some entities catalyst is programmed by the Higher Self to create experiences so that the entity can release itself from unwanted biases. Would this be analogous then to the entity consciously programming this release and using fasting as the method of communication to itself?
Ra: I am Ra. This is not only correct but may be taken further. The self, if conscious to a great enough extent of the workings of this catalyst and the techniques of programming, may through concentration of the will and the faculty of faith alone cause reprogramming without the analogy of the fasting, the diet, or other analogous body complex disciplines.
RE: detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Monica - 12-03-2012
(12-03-2012, 04:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: It can be a tough balancing act. For example, many people who come to see me have already tried- or are taking- probiotics. But often times I would recommend different strains, a different dose, or both.
A lot of probiotics on the market are pretty much worthless.
(12-03-2012, 04:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I usually leave it up to the patient to decide. I just give them the best theory and recommendations I feel I can muster. I like to have DNA microbiome analysis done whenever possible... but insurance doesn't always cover it and the test is $500 out-of-pocket.
You are able to isolate which strains they need, based on that test? Interesting!
(12-03-2012, 04:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: You probably wouldn't be surprised to learn that a fair amount of people just want me to "tell them what to do." Those tend to be the most frustrating cases...
No, not surprised!
Funny, you want to work with the client...very refreshing! Most practitioners I've been to just wanted to tell me what to do, without working with me.
(12-03-2012, 04:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I just always found that so strange... didn't Jesus teach that the "Kingdom of God" is within us, and not to trust anybody that encourages us to look outside of ourselves?
He taught a lot of thing they seem to conveniently forget...
(12-03-2012, 04:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: No no... I meant "everything" to apply to every treatment. Not everybody that receives the treatment.
You were referring to placebo...isn't placebo a function of the person, not the treatment?
(12-03-2012, 04:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Yeah- that's why I am leery of developing a formal protocol. But I do like options... and for the same price as my initial visit a person could get my "Gut Rehab Kit" and try it out for two weeks. It's not something that is meant for people to be on forever and ever.
I like your approach!
(12-03-2012, 04:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Also, I think you might be onto something with the fear of losing business by getting people well. I think that applies across the board- to both mainstream and alternative practitioners.
Yes. I've seen it happen more with alternative practitioners, because mainstream MDs don't even get that far.
That guru I told you about? I quit going to her when bluegreen algae addressed the female problems. So I told her about it. Guess what she said! "I can't get my patients on that...it would detoxify them too fast." (direct quote!)
Bad for her business!
And if practitioners recommended the water...and people got their blood pressure down, cancerous tumors started shrinking, fibromyalgia and arthritis pain disappeared, fertility was restored, etc., then their businesses would be impacted.
Of course, all those people would buy machines and the practitioner would make $$ that way, so it would balance out in the end, and they might even come out better in the long run. But they don't think about that...they just think about their profit. Never mind that the machine would continue to help people for decades to come, as well as ripple out to friends and family members as well.
(12-03-2012, 04:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: It is one of the reasons why we started another business. The practice only provides about 15% of our total income... just enough to pay for itself and my student loan bills. And of that income, only about 15% is from the actual sale of supplements.
You have my respect!
(12-03-2012, 04:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I freaking HATE promoting my practice.
Why? If you are offering a legitimate service that is helping people, why not promote it?
(12-03-2012, 04:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Usually, I just write articles and do SEO on my website, and people find me through the Internet or word of mouth. But it can be frustrating knowing that there are all these other practitioners out there who have no scruples about playing the Pied Piper with their patients....
I think I know what you mean. I go through the same thing. I have to deal with people making assumptions about my water machine, because they've had a bad experience with some over-hyped product. They just assume mine is over-hyped too, and I have to get them past that.
Our water is actually waaaaaay under-hyped.
(12-03-2012, 04:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I know what you mean! That is exactly how I feel when people from the raw juicing community encourage everybody- especially very sickly and weak people- to consume massive amounts of fructose, and dangerously low quantities of protein. It's like... don't they even CARE enough to understand the basic nutritional needs of the human body before guru-fying themselves all over the Internet?!
I was a victim of that! Too much cleansing, too many colonics, too much fasting, not enough protein...then add to that, the distilled water, which that same guru told me to drink forever! All that stuff together almost killed me!
I learned later, from another practitioner, that she has "almost killed" lots of people! He said "she doesn't know when to stop."
(12-03-2012, 04:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Oh gosh yes... I am quite sure the bloody wars will end! And besides... once fully established in 4D... will bodies even have blood?!
But you were talking about people trying to outdo each other... so that's what I was getting at... emotional and mental battles.
I dunno about spiritual battles though... what would that even mean? A love v. light "deathmatch"?!
My guess would be like what happened to Carla...offers of negative service, declined by her, but they persisted...battles of will and choice.
(12-03-2012, 05:26 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Interesting... didn't they suggest that acceptance is the key to positive polarization? I don't believe they discussed the spiritual value of rejection all that much...
They discussed free will and choice a great deal. Choosing one thing over another, automatically rejects that which is not chosen.
RE: detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Tenet Nosce - 12-03-2012
(12-03-2012, 06:13 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: You are able to isolate which strains they need, based on that test? Interesting!
To some degree. There is still some guesswork and personal theories involved because we just don't have the research to know for sure. But it's way better than taking a blind stab in the dark!
Quote:Funny, you want to work with the client...very refreshing! Most practitioners I've been to just wanted to tell me what to do, without working with me.
Yup. Though- isn't earth living a riot?! I have found that WAY more people are looking for those authoritative types... even in the alternative field. I think a lot of practitioners might start out like me... but then when they find that they can't make ends meet with their business, eventually capitulate and just give people what they are asking for.
Quote:You were referring to placebo...isn't placebo a function of the person, not the treatment?
What I meant was- every treatment will have some degree of placebo effect. The actual degree to which it does depends on the patient- and also the practitioner.
Quote:Of course, all those people would buy machines and the practitioner would make $$ that way, so it would balance out in the end, and they might even come out better in the long run. But they don't think about that...they just think about their profit. Never mind that the machine would continue to help people for decades to come, as well as ripple out to friends and family members as well.
People have a hard time thinking big picture. Period.
Quote:You have my respect!
More importantly- my own!
But gosh the way we have set up our belief systems and society in general... it sure is a challenge to make a living in a self-respectful way...I can't help but think of the droves who drive themselves to a big corporate box and sit in a cubicle all day every day because they see no alternative.
Quote:Why? If you are offering a legitimate service that is helping people, why not promote it?
Self-promotion makes me uncomfortable... maybe it's just a blockage of some sort... but on a broader scale it just annoys me that legitimate services have to be heavily promoted in order to stand out among all the garbage and flat-out fraudulent practices.
I mean... what is it about people that they continue to be so easily fooled by hucksters and charlatans? Haven't we grown past this yet? (I guess the answer is: No, we haven't.)
Quote:They just assume mine is over-hyped too, and I have to get them past that.
Well, see? That's what I mean. Personally, I see lamestream medicine as much LESS of a hindrance to what I am doing than all these bozos in the alternative health field hawking garbage to the unwitting public.
And then, on TOP of that we now have a wave of YouTube "gurus" leading people to believe that they don't even need ANY kind of professional help at all! Why pay a consultation fee, when Dan the Man can tell me everything I need to know for free!
Quote:They discussed free will and choice a great deal. Choosing one thing over another, automatically rejects that which is not chosen.
Put that way- yes I see what you mean.
RE: detoxification methods people here have used/heard of - Monica - 12-03-2012
(12-03-2012, 07:05 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: What I meant was- every treatment will have some degree of placebo effect. The actual degree to which it does depends on the patient- and also the practitioner.
I admit the whole subject of placebo is a bit of a sore spot with me, because I hear it so much in reference to the water. Whenever I tell my story to professionals, they often say "oh that was just placebo" or "you would have gotten the same results just by drinking any water" the latter of which is absurd, because have they ever heard of anyone getting off their deathbeds just by drinking any other water? Not to mention, that I didn't increase the amount of water! Most people do increase their water, of course, because most people weren't drinking enough water to begin with...but still, since when does drinking any other water produce results like these? It doesn't!
And the placebo doesn't apply here, because that is a human thing. Cats, dogs and horses don't have placebo. Neither do babies.
I know you're not saying it's all placebo, but I'm just sharing why it's kind of a pet peeve with me.
If I were going to have a placebo effect, then I would have had it with the first machine I had (the competitor). But I didn't. Nothing happened. Then I got the medical-grade machine and all sorts of miracles happened! Not to mention my dog, who was essentially brought back from the dead!(12-03-2012, 07:05 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: People have a hard time thinking big picture. Period.
Yeah. What gets me is when they (the practitioners) accuse us of just wanting to make a buck, but then they refuse to even look at this because they don't want to lose business.
The irony is that the practitioners who do get the device and recommend it to their patients, see much better results with their patients, and when patients are happy they're more likely to refer others, so their businesses end up prospering even more, which, together with referral commissions from the company, more than makes up for patients getting well faster and buying fewer supplements.
Not to mention the ethics of withholding info that could help their patients! I may have already told you this story, but one of my naturopaths always talks about the patients who got off their deathbeds when he gave them this water, yet he still won't talk it up much! He seems very locked into his established protocol.
(12-03-2012, 07:05 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: More importantly- my own!
It's annoying that we even have to think about money at all! I would much rather just focus on helping people, with nary a thought about how I'll be able to pay my bills.
(12-03-2012, 07:05 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I can't help but think of the droves who drive themselves to a big corporate box and sit in a cubicle all day every day because they see no alternative.
Been there done that! So you and I have a lot to be thankful for...at least our livelihood is something we enjoy and helps people!
(12-03-2012, 07:05 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Self-promotion makes me uncomfortable...
You might try reframing...think of it as promoting services that help people, rather than promoting self.
(12-03-2012, 07:05 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: maybe it's just a blockage of some sort... but on a broader scale it just annoys me that legitimate services have to be heavily promoted in order to stand out among all the garbage and flat-out fraudulent practices.
Yeah I know what you mean! I get tired of having to continually set the record straight about the junk machines out there...For example, some of them even claim to produce disinfectant water, but when you look at their specs, their machines don't reach low enough pH levels to disinfect! So unscrupulous! But consumers aren't educated enough to know what to look for.
(12-03-2012, 07:05 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Well, see? That's what I mean. Personally, I see lamestream medicine as much LESS of a hindrance to what I am doing than all these bozos in the alternative health field hawking garbage to the unwitting public.
You said that before I disagreed at the time, but now I see your point.
(12-03-2012, 07:05 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: And then, on TOP of that we now have a wave of YouTube "gurus" leading people to believe that they don't even need ANY kind of professional help at all! Why pay a consultation fee, when Dan the Man can tell me everything I need to know for free!