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The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Turtle - 04-18-2012
Quote:Questioner: Thank you. I have a question here that I will read: “Much of the mystic tradition of seeking on Earth holds the belief that the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world ignored for the individual to reach ‘nirvana,’ as it is called, or enlightenment. What is the proper role of the individual self and its worldly activities to aid an individual to grow more into the Law of One?”
Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.
The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One, thus preserving the primal distortion of free will.
The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum. Overcoming, thus, creates the further environment for holding on to that which apparently has been overcome.
All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate distortion shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.
It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.
I bolded the main points, but it is all so very rich to read. The very meaning of life and stuff.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Ruth - 04-18-2012
Thank you for sharing this today, Turtle. It is exactly what I needed to "hear" and must be why I keep coming back here instead of doing the things I had planned for today.
and I agree it certainly is so very rich to read!
Love and light!
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - AnthroHeart - 04-18-2012
(04-18-2012, 12:36 PM)Turtle Wrote:Quote:The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum.
It's strange that Ra mentions "balancing in the time/space continuum"
71.7 Questioner: Is the process in positive time/space identical with the process in negative time/space for this healing?
Ra: I am Ra. The process in space/time of the forgiveness and acceptance is much like that in time/space in that the qualities of the process are analogous. However, while in space/time it is not possible to determine the course of events beyond the incarnation but only to correct present imbalances. In time/space, upon the other hand, it is not possible to correct any unbalanced actions but rather to perceive the imbalances and thusly forgive the self for that which is.
The decisions then are made to set up the possibility/probabilities of correcting these imbalances in what you call future space/time experiences. The advantage of time/space is that of the fluidity of the grand overview. The advantage of space/time is that, working in darkness with a tiny candle, one may correct imbalances.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Plenum - 04-18-2012
Quote:18.5 That which is not needed falls away.
I have always found this particular quote quite interesting in relation to disease.
there appear to be very few 'totally healthy' individuals on this planet (as far as I am aware).
but perhaps I am reading this out of context.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Unbound - 04-18-2012
We seek within.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Patrick - 04-18-2012
Thinking about it and thinking of doing it may be different concepts though.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Unbound - 04-18-2012
We seek within.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Aureus - 04-18-2012
The people in your imagination doesn't correspond to the actual beings. The fact that you are thinking about it might increase the probability of you doing it, though unless something actually happens it's as harmless as watching an action movie. I don't panic and believe I've witnessed murder when I watch Tv ^^
Although it could of course be debated whether these kind of habits are useful to further evolution of the soul in question.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Unbound - 04-18-2012
We seek within.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Patrick - 04-18-2012
"If you spend all your time thinking about killing people..." well then maybe STS would be a more natural path for such a person.
Personally, I can't remember ever wanting to kill anyone. I did think about what it could be like to have to kill someone if I was in the army and wondering if I could do it or would let myself be killed instead.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Unbound - 04-18-2012
We seek within.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Patrick - 04-18-2012
I think I know what you mean. It seems that, for this incarnation, I chose a bias for overeating. I lost 100lb with controlling my intake of food. I'm still not sure how to not overeat without control being somewhere in the equation. I have no idea what I am supposed to accept or what needs balancing in order for the constant hunger to fade.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Bring4th_Austin - 04-18-2012
Et, I think the idea behind that statement is the fact that the desires simply should not be suppressed or ignored. We can't expect anyone (ourselves) to be completely balanced and think only thoughts of serving others, especially with our psyches bombarded in a society such as our's, behind a veil this thick.
But examining desires in the mind helps us explore their origins. If one is consciously polarizing through STO, it would mean that they generally have positive thoughts and a desire to serve people, otherwise they would not be choosing STO. But a stray negative desire may pop up from the unconscious, and it would do an STO being well to analyze this desire for all that it is worth since it is likely springing from an imbalance. Ignoring the desire would allow the imbalance to continue, yet allowing oneself to experience the desire and analyze it, explore it, identify it, and balance it allows for greater growth and progress.
To more specifically address your question of whether it affects polarity, I do not believe that it does. I feel that intention with action polarizes, while one without the other does not.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Unbound - 04-18-2012
Yes, Valtor, that is what I am trying to get at.
I'm having a hard time thinking of what "imbalance" means here. Imbalance relative to the chosen path?
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Bring4th_Austin - 04-18-2012
(04-18-2012, 08:23 PM)Valtor Wrote: I think I know what you mean. It seems that, for this incarnation, I chose a bias for overeating. I lost 100lb with controlling my intake of food. I'm still not sure how to not overeat without control being somewhere in the equation. I have no idea what I am supposed to accept or what needs balancing in order for the constant hunger to fade.
It seems like to me that the fact this action would only directly affect yourself is a key to figuring this one out. It's not necessarily a polarizing act, involves respect for your body, and is a test of willpower.
(04-18-2012, 09:38 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Yes, Valtor, that is what I am trying to get at.
I'm having a hard time thinking of what "imbalance" means here. Imbalance relative to the chosen path?
I believe that polarization is the crux of what is being discussed here, so I can't imagine a different meaning for "imbalance." Isn't that basically what it means throughout the material?
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Unbound - 04-18-2012
We seek within.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Bring4th_Austin - 04-19-2012
I would say that is the case, in a sense. Would the negative polarity need to be abandoned in the end if it were truly balanced in line with the creator? One could say that there is relative balance within the Service to Self path, I suppose. Yet while each path will handle emotions is different and the way each path will activate energy centers is different, it is the Service to Others path which persists in its balance within density of unity, where there supposedly is no polarity.
Ra's description of balance and balancing techniques most certainly apply to a Service to Others individual, as they include integration and acceptance of experience and emotion rather than control, and deal with activation of all energy centers. I think it's safe to say that when Ra says "balance," they mean Service to Others balance, which one might extrapolate is "true" balance.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - spero - 04-19-2012
(04-18-2012, 07:39 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Well this is what I'm trying to express, is that there is a correlation between the way a person thinks and their actions in the world. Also, in that regard what about people who find that fantasizing about something increases their desire for it?
It says no desires should be overcome, but if the imagination stokes the fire of that desire it seems to me this could become a bit of a circle.
I think you'd find that the entire excercise of experiencing your desires in mind, particularly as a tool for balancing, falls flat on its face if you dont follow through with the after steps i.e. "to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences". Without these following steps there is no "distilling from them the love/light within them." Only in the analysis and distilliation of love/light can the desires become "more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light". Furthermore the concept of polarity or orientation is addressed in the statement "The orientation develops due to analysis of desire" as I do agree that without analysis, a desire corresponding to an energy blockage for example could only be exacerbated if indulged in and perhaps is a valued tool to those on the negative path.
E.g.
Quote:31.14 Questioner: I was thinking more of the possibility of the Orion group influencing certain members of the Third Reich who I have read reports of having sexual gratification from the observation of the gassing and killing of entities in the gas chambers.
Ra: I am Ra. We shall repeat these entities had the potential for sexual energy buildup. The choice of stimulus is certainly the choice of the entity. In the case of which you speak, these entities were strongly polarized orange ray, thus finding the energy blockage of power over others, the putting to death being the ultimate power over others; this then being expressed in a sexual manner, though solitary.
In this case the desire would continue unabated and be virtually unquenchable.
You will find, if you observe the entire spectrum of sexual practices among your peoples, that there are those who experience such gratification from domination over others either from rape or from other means of domination. In each case this is an example of energy blockage which is sexual in its nature.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Shin'Ar - 04-19-2012
I would like to ask Turtle what his thoughts are on the matter and why he posted this without actually saying what he thought of it.
I would also ask you all to consider what Azrael and Spero are trying to tell you.
there is a great danger to take these quotations out of their context and try to make them fit into one's excuses to practice STS.
The whole point of the quote is the discerning of right and wrong, NOT that wrong is okay if you only do it in your thoughts.
To conquer those things that would not lead to love/light one cannot simply pretend that they do not exists and ignore them. This would not be a process of discernment or education. This would be ignorance. That does not mean that we should now take the opportunity to practice such things, but that we distill them for their reality and affects and gather whether or not they are of love/light. The fact that some things not of love/light are contrary to human welfare and can be extremely inhumane is why Ra advises us to explore these things in our minds and not via actual practice.
These matters are only common sense, and it is only those who would enjoy STS or who would actually consider harming others who would choose to interpret these teachings as an opportunity to experience STS of this sort first hand.
This forum was being overrun by that type when I first came here and one of the main reasons that I remained. That way of misinmterpreti8ng this quote is still being perpetrated here and those types would love to have it become the way that it is always interpreted.
But the truth is that love and light have nothing in common with injustice or inhumanity, in thought or practice. Our obligation as intelligent and loving persons is to discern what is inhumane and what is not, without actually having to hurt someone to find out what does.
I think it is extremely important when studying the Law of One, as 'Children' of the Law of One, to constantly remind ourselves that we are not having a face to face to discussion with a fellow human being.
This is a sharing of information between fields of consciousness, where one field is in a completely different dimension than the other. And therefore such communication is not going to be concise and casual. Where discernment is necessary to grasp truth from the sharing of information between humans, it is even more necessary to acquire meaning of such between fields.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Bring4th_Austin - 04-19-2012
Shin'Ar, can you point out exactly where you think these quotes are being taken out of context as an excuse to practice Service to Self? Be specific please.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Shemaya - 04-19-2012
Quote:This forum was being overrun by that type when I first came here and one of the main reasons that I remained. That way of misinmterpreti8ng this quote is still being perpetrated here and those types would love to have it become the way that it is always interpreted
I completely disagree with you on this Shin'Ar. First of all, I would hope that you post here not with an agenda, but because you honestly are a seeker who wants to share with others on an "STO" path.
Interpretation is for each individual to discern, and there is nothing STS about an individual interpreting a quote based on their own understanding. It's only STS when one tries to convince and force others to interpret it their way.
This kind of accusation that you have sprinkled through your posts here angers me, I just thought I would come out and say how I feel.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Shin'Ar - 04-19-2012
(04-19-2012, 08:26 AM)Shemaya Wrote:Quote:This forum was being overrun by that type when I first came here and one of the main reasons that I remained. That way of misinmterpreti8ng this quote is still being perpetrated here and those types would love to have it become the way that it is always interpreted
I completely disagree with you on this Shin'Ar. First of all, I would hope that you post here not with an agenda, but because you honestly are a seeker who wants to share with others on an "STO" path.
Interpretation is for each individual to discern, and there is nothing STS about an individual interpreting a quote based on their own understanding. It's only STS when one tries to convince and force others to interpret it their way.
This kind of accusation that you have sprinkled through your posts here angers me, I just thought I would come out and say how I feel.
What accusation are you referring to Shemaya, What exactly are you accusing me of?
I am making the point, as are Azrael and Spero, that this quote should not be used an excuse to practice STS and that it is certainly not what Ra was saying. I am also making the point that when I first came to this forum this exact topic was being discussed, as it has many times before, and that many do try to use this quote to suggest that practicing STS is a good way to learn about their true self. I am pointing out the danger to this sort of misinterpretation.
Now what exactly do you have a problem with?
Nowhere have I suggested that a person cannot discern for themselves, rather I emphasize the need for s person to do exactly that.
Now if you are trying to suggest that because some people may incorrectly interpret this quote, or that others may deliberately misinterpret this quote, that it is okay, and should not be debated because they have the free will to be incorrect, than I have a problem with your thinking and disagree completely with you. I think it is for the love of light and humanity to help others to understand these things in their true content. Others will come to learn at their own degree of understanding and intelligence, but those who have higher understanding are not wrong in offering their assistance. And thank the stars for that. Where would mankind be if the Ancients and those who have gone on before us had not bothered to offer us their knowledge and teaching?
There are many who feel it an imposition on free will to try to teach others what is right and wrong, and if that is true than you are now imposing on mine by telling me what you think.
However I do not believe that to be true, and appreciate your input, even though I disagree with your accusation.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Shemaya - 04-19-2012
I have a problem with your statement: this forum is "overrun by those types" and that being the main reason you post here. It's that simple.
But you are honest about it, I appreciate that
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Shin'Ar - 04-19-2012
(04-19-2012, 08:37 AM)Shemaya Wrote: I have a problem with your statement: this forum is "overrun by those types" and that being the main reason you post here. It's that simple.
But you are honest about it, I appreciate that
What I was trying to point out is that at the time I came upon this forum this debate was rampant in many threads, and many from both sides were making their thoughts known.
That is not an accusation, but a statement of the circumstances. Now instead of looking for four words in a sentence to take out of context, how about giving us your thoughts on the actual issue? What do you think of the actual topic, as opposed to your opinion on how I express myself?
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Shemaya - 04-19-2012
Sorry, Shin'Ar, I have no desire to discuss this with you. I have expressed my feelings a few times, and just wanted to give a simple explanation of why your post provoke this feeling in me.
Imo, there is nothing to for me to discuss regarding my feelings or your statements. Many words will not change things, and I don't need this particular catalyst right now my HS is telling me. If I thought it was worthwhile for me in this moment to enter discussion I would.
But I can't devote time to this right now, I hope you understand.
(04-19-2012, 07:56 AM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: Shin'Ar, can you point out exactly where you think these quotes are being taken out of context as an excuse to practice Service to Self? Be specific please.
bumping this question for you Shin 'Ar.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Shin'Ar - 04-19-2012
(04-19-2012, 09:01 AM)Shemaya Wrote: Sorry, Shin'Ar, I have no desire to discuss this with you. I have expressed my feelings a few times, and just wanted to give a simple explanation of why your post provoke this feeling in me.
Imo, there is nothing to for me to discuss regarding my feelings or your statements. Many words will not change things, and I don't need this particular catalyst right now my HS is telling me. If I thought it was worthwhile for me in this moment to enter discussion I would.
But I can't devote time to this right now, I hope you understand.
(04-19-2012, 07:56 AM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: Shin'Ar, can you point out exactly where you think these quotes are being taken out of context as an excuse to practice Service to Self? Be specific please.
bumping this question for you Shin 'Ar.
Of course Shemaya, if you feel it is worthwhile to accuse me of wrongdoing in expressing my thoughts on a matter, while you do exactly the same in expressing your thoughts about me on the matter, than I suppose that there really is nothing for us to actually discuss. And it would not serve any good to continue it. Thanks for your 'input'. Oh and thanks to Drifting Pages and Meerie for their thoughts as well.
Aaron, It seems that the discussion is already answering that question. I think I'll just let it play out for itself as it has a hundered times in the past.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - 3DMonkey - 04-19-2012
(04-19-2012, 08:30 AM)ShinAr Wrote:(04-19-2012, 08:26 AM)Shemaya Wrote:Quote:This forum was being overrun by that type when I first came here and one of the main reasons that I remained. That way of misinmterpreti8ng this quote is still being perpetrated here and those types would love to have it become the way that it is always interpreted
I completely disagree with you on this Shin'Ar. First of all, I would hope that you post here not with an agenda, but because you honestly are a seeker who wants to share with others on an "STO" path.
Interpretation is for each individual to discern, and there is nothing STS about an individual interpreting a quote based on their own understanding. It's only STS when one tries to convince and force others to interpret it their way.
This kind of accusation that you have sprinkled through your posts here angers me, I just thought I would come out and say how I feel.
What accusation are you referring to Shemaya, What exactly are you accusing me of?
I am making the point, as are Azrael and Spero, that this quote should not be used an excuse to practice STS and that it is certainly not what Ra was saying. I am also making the point that when I first came to this forum this exact topic was being discussed, as it has many times before, and that many do try to use this quote to suggest that practicing STS is a good way to learn about their true self. I am pointing out the danger to this sort of misinterpretation.
Now what exactly do you have a problem with?
Nowhere have I suggested that a person cannot discern for themselves, rather I emphasize the need for s person to do exactly that.
Now if you are trying to suggest that because some people may incorrectly interpret this quote, or that others may deliberately misinterpret this quote, that it is okay, and should not be debated because they have the free will to be incorrect, than I have a problem with your thinking and disagree completely with you. I think it is for the love of light and humanity to help others to understand these things in their true content. Others will come to learn at their own degree of understanding and intelligence, but those who have higher understanding are not wrong in offering their assistance. And thank the stars for that. Where would mankind be if the Ancients and those who have gone on before us had not bothered to offer us their knowledge and teaching?
There are many who feel it an imposition on free will to try to teach others what is right and wrong, and if that is true than you are now imposing on mine by telling me what you think.
However I do not believe that to be true, and appreciate your input, even though I disagree with your accusation.
I think you are saying that "interpreting the quote to mean what I want it to mean denies the "true" meaning and is a practice of purely serving my self". Is this correct?
If so, I agree with you.
There is a wonderful statement in the material that I will now quote, and that I will now interpret it to mean what I want it to mean as you will do the same.
Quote: . To serve the self is to serve all. The service of the self, when seen in this perspective, requires an ever-expanding use of the energies of others for manipulation to the benefit of the self with distortion towards power.
(04-18-2012, 07:39 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Well this is what I'm trying to express, is that there is a correlation between the way a person thinks and their actions in the world. Also, in that regard what about people who find that fantasizing about something increases their desire for it?
It says no desires should be overcome, but if the imagination stokes the fire of that desire it seems to me this could become a bit of a circle.
As Valtor said, the thoughts are not "beings". Although, the thoughts ARE entities.
What is being lost here, IMO, is what the purpose of the thoughts are. All desires should and can be explored in the mind. It is what the conclusions, or the work, that is drawn from them that is important.
To kill a perceived enemy in the mind is a valid method for overcoming the internal representation that causes the perception to begin with. If done with intensity, concentration, and with a goal, the initial desires transform into something new. If the goal is to serve an other and the self's current configuration is "blocked" by negative thoughts, a full exploration of the blockage will help the Self in such a way as to achieve the Self's goal- being to serve the Other in love.
So, thinking bad thoughts in order to transform them into good intentions is very practical. It is short sighted to say thinking bad thoughts leads to bad actions. The choice is in the Mind, and so polarity is for each thought.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Shin'Ar - 04-19-2012
When you hear someone like Azrael or any other person with an ancient consciousness speak of such things as thought and its implicit aspect of creation, one should consider what they have to say with deeper thought.
When he speaks of thought he is not talking about it the way that most humans comprehend thought but in a much grander scale.
I won't get into the same old STS debate that the same old proponents of it would love to rehash with a lot of Ra quotes that have not been appropriately discerned. It would be futile as most of those already know the argument well and have made their choice to think the way they do.
But with regard to thought I would remind you that it is thought and the power of it that is behind the entire universe. This is the creative aspect to which Azreal is referring you.
I would say that thinking bad to transform them into good is just an excuse to think bad and experience it for your self, and than have an excuse as to why you did that.
Bad cannot be transformed into good, whether done in the mind or the real world.
Discerning whether a thing is good or bad does not always necessitate the experiencing of it. I do not think that one would benefit from thinking about raping anther human being, so that you can justify that thought by suggesting that now you know how wrong it is. Why did you have to experience such a thing in your mind to come to that understanding? Were you not naturally horrified and repulsed by the thought in the first place?
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Plenum - 04-19-2012
you are free to interpret as you please.
That is the BEAUTY of Free WIll.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Shin'Ar - 04-19-2012
The real beauty of free will is found in the fact that when there is the 'choice', that some actually choose to express love for others out of sheer choice, it becomes that much more special and loving.
Some perceive it as just another blah-ze choice of many and of no great import or significance.
There is no interpretation to be made, just sheer appreciation.