3D Sunset Wrote:(1) A member of the Confederation proposes a message to transmit and (2) has the message (or at least skeletal draft of it) preliminarily approved for dissemination by the Council. (3) After that, a search is made for a suitable instrument to deliver the message. (4) Once said instrument is found, a final review of the message and instrument is performed and approval is granted. (5) As soon as the message is transmitted, it is out of the Confederation's hands. They have acted in good faith and good intentions and they let the chips fall where they might, having no attachment to the resultant outcome. (Prepare for the worst, hope for the best, and expect something in between).

3D Sunset Wrote:Note that in the past such activities have often as not resulted in the message being so distorted that it actually became a benefit to STS. But what of that, as they say, and they gird their loins and continue muddling though. This 3D stuff is always messy, but that's no reason to quit trying!

Law of One, Book I, Session 22 Wrote:Questioner: Was all of their information given to them in the same way that we are getting our information now, through an instrument such as this instrument?

Ra: I am Ra. There were visitations from time to time but none of importance in the, shall we say, historical passage of events in your space/time continuum.

Questioner: Was it necessary for them to have an unified social complex for these visitations to occur? What conditions were necessary for these visitations to occur?

Ra: I am Ra. The conditions were two: the calling of a group of people whose square overcame the integrated resistance of those unwilling to search or learn; the second requirement, the relative naiveté of those members of the Confederation who felt that direct transfer of information would necessarily be as helpful for Atlanteans as it had been for the Confederation entity.

Questioner: I see then. What you are saying is that these naive Confederation entities had had the same thing happen to them in the past so they were doing the same thing for the Atlantean entities. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. We remind you that we are one of the naive members of that Confederation and are still attempting to recoup the damage for which we feel responsibility. It is our duty as well as honor to continue with your peoples, therefore, until all traces of the distortions of our teach/learnings have been embraced by their opposite distortions, and balance achieved.

Questioner: I see. Then I will state the picture I have of Atlantis and you tell me if I am correct.

We have a condition where a large enough percentage of the people of Atlantis had started at least going in the direction of the Law of One and living the Law of One for their call to be heard by the Confederation. This call was heard because, using the Law of Squares, it overrode the opposition of the Atlantean entities who were not calling. The Confederation then used channels such as we use now in communication and also made contact directly, but this turned out to be a mistake because it was perverted by the entities of Atlantis. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct with one exception. There is only one law. That is the Law of One. Other so-called laws are distortions of this law, some of them primal and most important for progress to be understood. However, it is well that each so-called law, which we also call “way,” be understood as a distortion rather than a law. There is no multiplicity to the Law of One.

The Law of One, Book I, Session 23 Wrote:Questioner: I understand, if I am correct, that a South American contact was also made. Can you tell me of the nature of your contact with respect to the attitude about the contact, its ramifications, the plan for the contact, and why the people were contacted in South America?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the final full question of this session. The entities who walked among those in your South American continent were called by a similar desire upon the part of the entities therein to learn of the manifestations of the sun. They worshipped this source of light and life. Thus, these entities were visited by light beings not unlike ourselves. Instructions were given and they were more accepted and less distorted than ours. The entities themselves began to construct a series of underground and hidden cities including pyramid structures.

These pyramids were somewhat at variance from the design that we had promulgated. However, the original ideas were the same with the addition of a desire or intention of creating places of meditation and rest, a feeling of the presence of the one Creator; these pyramids then being for all people, not only initiates and those to be healed.

They left this density when it was discovered that their plans were solidly in motion and, in fact, had been recorded. During the next approximately 3,500 years these plans became, though somewhat distorted, in a state of near-completion in many aspects.

Therefore, as is the case of the breakings of the quarantine, the entity who was helping the South American entities along the South American ways you call in part the Amazon River went before the Council of Saturn to request a second attempt to correct in person the distortions which had occurred in their plans. This having been granted, this entity or social memory complex returned and the entity chosen as messenger came among the peoples once more to correct the errors.

Again, all was recorded and the entity rejoined its social memory complex and left your skies.

As in our experience the teachings were, for the most part, greatly and grossly perverted to the extent in later times of actual human sacrifice rather than healing of humans. Thus, this social memory complex is also given the honor/duty of remaining until those distortions are worked out of the distortion complexes of your peoples.

(08-24-2009, 11:57 AM)3D Sunset Wrote: Hi Q,
I am struck with an image of the Council being convened to consider a proposal:

"Must we hear yet another hair-brained idea from our Venusian love-in students.", said Alathor, exasperated.

"When will they figure out that these people are just different in 3D than they were?", pined Taramere.

"Do we really need another pyramid? This one in Egypt now. Ah, and I see that they are requesting direct contact again. Who's on clean-up duty this Eon?", injected Pandora.

"Now now my friends, how will they learn unless we let them try?", cautioned Council Lead, Brewhaha. "Alright now, sit up everyone. Faces blank, but inviting, robes straight? Send them bailiff. "

Like I said, this 3D stuff is always messy, but that is part of the fun. And a big part of the lessons to be learned.

(08-24-2009, 02:16 PM)Quantum Wrote: And all said "O-m-m-m" in adjournment and closing, as confused on their level of 6th as man is on 3rd by Zigzags wisdom from 7th as good as eighth being the next first. They hardly ever understood what the hell he was talking about. Thankfully they had a forum aptly named "bring7th" which to retreat to where they might take council each with the other in mass as a means to uncover what Zigzagmentia attempted to convey through their level of the veil and distortion.

(08-24-2009, 12:46 AM)Quantum Wrote: If to the converse a material is passed, and this were to also imply that the material was in keeping with Confederation principles and philosophy, presumably meaning that only a certain amount of distortion were allowed to be "peppered" in the material, but that it would never "pass" were it to be so distorted so much as to create an STS manual instead, this then would be more in keeping with "passed" as a definition.

(08-24-2009, 12:46 AM)Quantum Wrote: I must believe if Ra commented on the material some two hundred years after the fact, as they did, and by sharing that it "passed" the Confederation, as they also did, then they might have additionally commented by suggesting that it were as severely distorted, if it were.

(08-24-2009, 12:46 AM)Quantum Wrote: This principle of "passing" after the fact by a review, by simple logic might indeed apply to a material being understood as having "passed", unless indeed all is in fact sadly left to chance after the fact by letting the chips fall where they may. This would however seem to be entirely counter-productive to the entire process of attempting to teach. Working through the the hypothetical principle of "passed" to mean that the Confederation takes an active process all the way through the act, it then stands to reason to hope that there may also be an approval mechanism after the fact as well to create a passing ( i.e., a review as it were) as well as before the fact (i.e. finding a suitable mission of a suitable material and then a suitable channel which said material is transmitted to).

(08-24-2009, 12:46 AM)Quantum Wrote: Following the logic that the teaching is paramount and as such that so too is the more correct 'transcription' of it, no teaching so distorted in transcription would be allowed to pass were it so severely distorted so as to "teach falsely. "Utilizing this logic further in this stream of consciousness, the assumption then is that indeed only "less distorted" information 'transcribed' is allowed to pass, verses "more distorted" information being transcribed allowed to pass, such that there is then a final review or opinion as given by Ra and the Confederation that it is a good work.

(08-24-2009, 12:46 AM)Quantum Wrote: In response to your above assumption then 3D, perhaps an information in question that has been passed is in fact not so much distorted in transcription as much as it is in interpretation as a result of it in fact being powerful, and thus as useful for either purpose, STO or STS included, i.e case in point most religious works, i.e. the Bible, The Koran, the Upanishads etc. To continue as a case in point, perhaps no STO "passed" "transmission" or "transcription" has ever been so distorted that it ended up as a specific STS teaching, but that indeed a said STO teaching was purposefully bent so as to be so distorted as resulting in a STS teaching. In other words, the material passed and "more correctly transcribed" by said scribe is always more STO oriented, but that the activities and interpretations may be purposefully utilized as bent for STS purposes. In other words, "Good STO teachers don't teach badly,as much as willingly bad sts students learn to utilize good STO teachings excellently for bad STS purposes".

(08-26-2009, 01:11 PM)Quantum Wrote: Once again, "Angels dancing on the head of a pin." Lazazza and I then were speaking to the term "peppered" as regards an information being transmitted as being 'partially veiled', this in my opinion so as to not infringe upon free will. I then purposefully attempted to split hairs with an intent so as to draw the distinction between "willful misinformation/misrepresentation" vs "partially veiled" (to protect free will) vs the normal amount of distortion assumed on any given transmission being "interpreted".

(08-26-2009, 03:46 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Where does that leave the Bible? Did the Bible 'pass?' Portions of it could arguably be considered an STS manual, while other portions do, according to Ra, contain elements of the Law of One. So is it an STS manual peppered with STO, or vice versa? Or simply mixed polarity that didn't pass? We know that there was a huge Yahweh scandal, so it's obvious how so much of it got distorted. Yet, Ra never (to my knowledge) explicitly commented on whether it had 'passed' or not, or just how distorted it actually ended up.

(08-26-2009, 03:46 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Why must you believe that? Where is the precedent? Which other works has Ra declared 'severely distorted?'

(08-26-2009, 03:46 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Secondly, if the goal was to have all such attempts have all wrinkles (distortions) ironed out beforehand, then what would be the purpose of the veil? Why not just rend the veil and be done with it?

(08-26-2009, 03:46 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Thirdly, I don't think the Confederation entities have nearly as much to do with the purity of the info as the recipient of said info. In other words, the Law of One ended up being remarkably (relatively) free from distortions not because of any review process, but simply and solely because of the integrity of the channel/questioner/facilitator team (our dear Carla, Don and Jim). Had they been less 'conscientious' (as Ra referred to them), there surely would have been more distortions.

(08-26-2009, 03:46 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: This does not negate the purity of the info or the integrity of the Confederation entity providing the info. Conversely, if, for example, the Oahspe channel was perhaps less conscientious, or, for whatever reason, more prone to coloration of the channeled info, would the Confederation source have denied the contact because the channel failed to reach a certain threshold of required clarity? I think not. I think Confederation entities have answered the call of many countless entities over millennia, with varying degrees of clarity/distortion, but were simply delighted to find the L/L team so configured, thus allowing a communication more complete and free from distortion than any other ever previously attempted. But this does not negate the value of previous contacts, which were undoubtedly useful to those people at that particular time in their evolution. They wouldn't have been ready for more advanced knowledge anyway, just as a child isn't ready for calculus. That Ra finally found some calculus students does not in any way minimize or demean the many arithmetic students previously taught.

(08-26-2009, 03:46 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: what determines the polarity is our CHOICE.

(08-26-2009, 02:04 PM)Lavazza Wrote: The concept that I am trying to extract here is the seeming paradox that two social memory complexes from the same confederation would draw different conclusions about what requires protection from free will violation? (I.e. RA takes reincarnation as a given assumption when providing the information for TLOO books. The Social Memory Complex that gave Oahspe does not(??)) This paradox of course presented with the assumption that this indeed is the cause of discrepancy between the works, and not some other cause (e.g. interfering STS source).

The Law of One, Book I, Session 18 Wrote:Questioner: Basically I would say that to infringe upon the free will of another entity would be the basic thing never to do under the Law of One.

Can you state any other breaking of the Law of One than this basic rule?

Ra: I am Ra. As one proceeds from the primal distortion of free will, one proceeds to the understanding of the focal points of intelligent energy which have created the intelligences or the ways of a particular mind/body/spirit complex in its environment, both what you would call natural and what you would call man-made. Thus, the distortions to be avoided are those which do not take into consideration the distortions of the focus of energy of love/light, or shall we say, the Logos of this particular sphere or density. These include the lack of understanding of the needs of the natural environment, the needs of other-selves’ mind/body/spirit complexes. These are many due to the various distortions of man-made complexes in which the intelligence and awareness of entities themselves have chosen a way of using the energies available.

Thus, what would be an improper distortion with one entity is proper with another. We can suggest an attempt to become aware of the other-self as self and thus do that action which is needed by other-self, understanding from the other-self’s intelligence and awareness. In many cases this does not involve the breaking of the distortion of free will into a distortion or fragmentation called infringement. However, it is a delicate matter to be of service, and compassion, sensitivity, and an ability to empathize are helpful in avoiding the distortions of man-made intelligence and awareness.

The area or arena called the societal complex is an arena in which there are no particular needs for care for it is the prerogative/honor/duty of those in the particular planetary sphere to act according to their free will for the attempted aid of the social complex.

Thus, you have two simple directives: awareness of the intelligent energy expressed in nature, awareness of the intelligent energy expressed in self to be shared when it seems appropriate by the entity with the social complex, and you have one infinitely subtle and various set of distortions of which you may be aware; that is, distortions with respect to self and other-selves not concerning free will but concerning harmonious relationships and service to others as other-selves would most benefit.

(08-26-2009, 02:41 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: So when communicating the Oahspe material, discussion of reincarnation could well have an infringement on the instrument, whereas with the Ra material, it was not.

(08-26-2009, 02:52 PM)Lavazza Wrote: Assuming that the Confederation, being a confederation, agrees to what is or is not a violation of free will (reincarnation for example), and that the Confederation is in agreement to promote as much love (or understanding) and light (or wisdom!) as possible... would it not make the most sense to keep the overall message consistent? I suppose this is the crux of what Quantum speculated initially in the Oahspe thread.

My own speculative opinion is still that it was more a matter of intended audience.

Quantum Wrote:If to the converse a material is passed, and this were to also imply that the material was in keeping with Confederation principles and philosophy, presumably meaning that only a certain amount of distortion were allowed to be "peppered" in the material, but that it would never "pass" were it to be so distorted so much as to create an STS manual instead, this then would be more in keeping with "passed" as a definition.

Monica Wrote:Where does that leave the Bible? Did the Bible 'pass?' Portions of it could arguably be considered an STS manual, while other portions do, according to Ra, contain elements of the Law of One. So is it an STS manual peppered with STO, or vice versa? Or simply mixed polarity that didn't pass? We know that there was a huge Yahweh scandal, so it's obvious how so much of it got distorted. Yet, Ra never (to my knowledge) explicitly commented on whether it had 'passed' or not, or just how distorted it actually ended up

Quantum Wrote:"perhaps an information in question that has been passed is in fact not so much distorted in transcription as much as it is in interpretation as a result of it in fact being powerful, and thus as useful for either purpose, STO or STS included, i.e case in point most religious works, i.e. the Bible, The Koran, the Upanishads etc."

Quantum Wrote:I must believe if Ra commented on the material some two hundred years after the fact, as they did, and by sharing that it "passed" the Confederation, as they also did, then they might have additionally commented by suggesting that it were as severely distorted, if it were.

Monica Wrote:Why must you believe that? Where is the precedent? Which other works has Ra declared 'severely distorted?'

Monica Wrote:Respectfully, I think you are making a lot of assumptions here.

Quantum Wrote:: Following the logic that the teaching is paramount and as such that so too is the more correct 'transcription' of it, no teaching so distorted in transcription would be allowed to pass were it so severely distorted so as to "teach falsely ....

Monica Wrote:Again I disagree with your initial premise. On what basis do you think that the teaching is paramount? My understanding is that service, ie. assistance in utilizing catalyst for the purpose of polarizing, is what's paramount.

Monica Wrote:I understand your point, but that presupposes that knowledge is inherently good (STO) or bad (STS). I contend that knowledge cannot be so easily categorized, but is a dynamic interplay of archetypal forces.

Quantum Wrote:...it suggest the Bible is secondarily utilized as being most closely aligned with the LOO: "Elkins aligned the table which held the Bible ("the book most closely aligned with the instrument’s mental distortions, which are allied most closely with the Law of One"). I have attempted to find same in the LOO. Perhaps 3D Sunset or βαθμιαίος who both exemplify the agility better than any two on this forum might be better able to quicker find this quote (by the way guys, how do you manage the search so efficiently. Bravo. Please do share).

Law of One, Book I, Session 2 Wrote:Ra: I am Ra. I request that we be asked this question in our next worktime, as you would term the distortion/sharing that our energies produce.

If you have any questions about the proper use of this mind/body/spirit, we would appreciate your asking them now.

Questioner: Consider them asked. I don’t have anything to go on. What is the proper use of this instrument? What should we do? What should we do to maximize her ability and her comfort?

Ra: I am Ra. We are pleased that you have asked this question for it is not our understanding that we have the right/duty to share our perceptions on any subject but philosophy without direct question. However, this mind/body/spirit is not being correctly used and therefore is experiencing unnecessary distortions of body in the area of fatigue.

The vibrations may well be purified by a simple turning to the circle of One and the verbal vibration while doing so of the following dialogue:

Question: “What is the Law?”
Answer: “The Law is One.”
Question: “Why are we here?”
Answer: “We seek the Law of One.”
Question: “Why do we seek Ra?”
Answer: “Ra is an humble messenger of the Law of One.”
Both Together: “Rejoice then and purify this place in the Law of One. Let no thought-form enter the circle we have walked about this instrument, for the Law is One.”

The instrument at this time should be in trance. The proper alignment is the head pointed twenty degrees north-by-northeast. This is the direction from which the newer or New Age distortions of love/light, which are less distorted, are emanating, and this instrument will find comfort therein.

This is a sensitive instrument, by which we mean the distortions which enter her mind/body/spirit complex come from any of her senses. Thus, it is well to do the following:

Place at the entity’s head a virgin chalice of water.
To the center, the book most closely aligned with the instrument’s mental distortions which are allied most closely with the Law of One, that being the Bible that she touches most frequently.
To the other side of the Bible, a small amount of cense, or incense, in a
virgin censer.

To the rear of the book symbolizing One, opened to the Gospel of John, Chapter One, a white candle.

The instrument would be strengthened by the wearing of a white robe. The instrument shall be covered and prone, the eyes covered.

We feel that, though this is a complex of activity/circumstance and may
seem very distorted from a purposeful teach/learning experience, these
elaborations on the technique of trance will ease the mind distortions of
those about the instrument as they perceive improvement in the instrument’s distortions with regard to fatigue. We add only that if these teach/learning sessions are held during time/space during which your sunbody does not light your room that it is best to call the instrument before the lighting of the illuminatory mechanism.

(08-26-2009, 05:05 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: I use the pdf version of the books and a combination of intuition and recollection to determine what search to use within them.

Google Wrote:"fourth density" site:lawofone.info
"fourth density" site:llresearch.org

Wikipedia Wrote:To the center, the book most closely aligned with the instrument’s mental distortions which are allied most closely with the Law of One, that being the Bible that she touches most frequently.

(08-26-2009, 04:49 PM)Quantum Wrote: I suggested that an intentional distortion of an STO transmission that were so severely distorted by STS that it would result in "The Devils Manuscript" would certainly have been prevented enough so as to never having occurred. STS is not "Overlord" nor have dominion in 3D verses that it has "Equal Time", as is the case in political debate in democracy. Therefore it would stand to reason by this premise in logic that a hi-jacked STO transmission resulting in a Devils Manuscript would not be possible.

(08-26-2009, 04:49 PM)Quantum Wrote: It is curious to note that in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Logos5557/Ra_%28channeled_entity%29 that it suggest the Bible is secondarily utilized as being most closely aligned with the LOO: "Elkins aligned the table which held the Bible ("the book most closely aligned with the instrument’s mental distortions, which are allied most closely with the Law of One").

(08-26-2009, 04:49 PM)Quantum Wrote: Assuming the book review on "Urantia" was less than flattering, one might certainly induce that the book Ohaspe might have lent itself to as much of an editorial comment were it so bent vs given it was indeed passed.

(08-26-2009, 04:49 PM)Quantum Wrote: I am a pragmatist. I am speaking to knowledge applied. I am not speaking to knowledge in the abstract

(08-26-2009, 04:49 PM)Quantum Wrote: ...as though a definition in sterility void of the user applying same as much as the teacher transmitting same. In principle, yes, knowledge is static verses dynamic, as though in potentiation vs kinetic interplay. Ra and the higher STO brothers however do not teach knowledge divested of love. Neither do STS teachers. Love, I submit, is the principle which maketh things to move. Therefore knowledge conveyed has as much polarity intended as knowledge received.

(08-26-2009, 04:49 PM)Quantum Wrote: It is not a leap of faith for me to assume that the Knowledge Ra attempted to convey was "Good" knowledge vs sterile knowledge, vs "Bad" knowledge, indeed the knowledge with which we might save our souls vs blow up the world or enslave it. By the same token I might induce that the knowledge transmitted by higher STS to lower sts might indeed, to the converse, be meant entirely to assist in the efforts towards the enslavement of humanity. Both are knowledge. I therefore submit that knowledge hardly exists, as though in static potentiation, but in fact comes alive only in dynamic kinetic interplay, i.e. polarity.

(08-26-2009, 06:22 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [quote='3D Sunset' pid='5066' dateline='1251320740']
To the center, the book most closely aligned with the instrument’s mental distortions which are allied most closely with the Law of One, that being the Bible that she touches most frequently.

Monica Wrote:If you break down this statement grammatically, it is saying that Carla's mental distortions that are allied most closely with the Law of One are [in turn] most closely aligned with the Bible. Carla discovered resonance with the Law of One via her chosen path: mystical Christianity. So, for her, the Bible represented the highest of teachings. I don't think Ra was in any way saying that the bible itself was the most closely aligned, as compared to other books.

Quantum Wrote:the Bible is secondarily utilized as being most closely aligned with the LOO:

Monica Wrote:I think that is precisely what happened with the early books of the old testament.

(08-26-2009, 04:49 PM)Quantum Wrote: [quote='Quantum' pid='5064' dateline='1251319786']
Assuming the book review on "Urantia" was less than flattering, one might certainly induce that the book Ohaspe might have lent itself to as much of an editorial comment were it so bent vs given it was indeed passed.

Monica Wrote:Not necessarily. That would presuppose that the same rules applied in every situation....as well as an assessment as to whether such an editorial might result in an infringement of free will.

(08-26-2009, 04:49 PM)Quantum Wrote: I am a pragmatist. I am speaking to knowledge applied. I am not speaking to knowledge in the abstract

Monica Wrote:Oh, I thought you liked abstractions!

(08-26-2009, 04:49 PM)Quantum Wrote: ...as though a definition in sterility void of the user applying same as much as the teacher transmitting same. In principle, yes, knowledge is static verses dynamic, as though in potentiation vs kinetic interplay. Ra and the higher STO brothers however do not teach knowledge divested of love. Neither do STS teachers. Love, I submit, is the principle which maketh things to move. Therefore knowledge conveyed has as much polarity intended as knowledge received.

Monica Wrote:I respectfully disagree. I don't think knowledge has polarity. Only the application of knowledge has polarity; or, more accurately, the intention behind that application.

(08-26-2009, 04:49 PM)Quantum Wrote: It is not a leap of faith for me to assume that the Knowledge Ra attempted to convey was "Good" knowledge vs it being a (edited in) sterile knowledge, vs "Bad" knowledge, indeed the knowledge with which we might save our souls vs blow up the world or enslave it. By the same token I might induce that the knowledge transmitted by higher STS to lower sts might indeed, to the converse, be meant entirely to assist in the efforts towards the enslavement of humanity. Both are knowledge. I therefore submit that knowledge hardly exists, as though in static potentiation, but in fact comes alive only in dynamic kinetic interplay, i.e. polarity.

Monica Wrote:Exactly. We are saying the same thing here.

(08-26-2009, 10:08 PM)Quantum Wrote: Once again, as with Solo before, I feel it necessary to defend 3D here by stating that 3D did not suggest or cite this passage from Wkipedia. I did.

(08-26-2009, 10:08 PM)Quantum Wrote: This is why I stated below:

Quantum Wrote:the Bible is secondarily utilized as being most closely aligned with the LOO:

(08-26-2009, 10:08 PM)Quantum Wrote: If it is not intrusive, might it be asked if there there is an inherent bias on your part as regards the Bible? I feel all the books of all the religions have great wisdom in them if read merely as "calls to higher consciousness". Making them into a religion is an altogether different proposition which has inherently nothing whatsoever to do with these books calling its reader to higher consciousness. There is a vast distinction between the two.

(08-26-2009, 10:08 PM)Quantum Wrote: I would suggest that this had very little to do with the message while having everything to do with it's interpretation. Same point as before. The sword of a message may cut both ways, i.e. in this case for STO or STS. Case in point The New Testament, not just the Old Testament. Much of what Jesus said has clearly been as utilized by the forces of STS as well, yet we know for a fact according to Ra that Jesus was a successful entity presumably having conveyed a successful message. This example as reference to this undeniable fact does not make the Jesus message an STS doctrine simply because STS use his message as such. Like all else, its in the eye of the beholder. Call a rose ugly, and for the caller no doubt it is.

(08-26-2009, 04:49 PM)Quantum Wrote: But Ra already did give an opinion on both. Its doubtful then that giving a thumb up on the Ohaspe but a thumbs down on Urantia would be construed as an infringement given the opinion was already rendered.

(08-26-2009, 04:49 PM)Quantum Wrote: It seems this is exactly what I said above as much as to the end of my last post #12 where I in fact suggest that knowledge is motionless without love as the mover.

(08-26-2009, 04:49 PM)Quantum Wrote:

Quantum Wrote:: Following the logic that the teaching is paramount and as such that so too is the more correct 'transcription' of it, no teaching so distorted in transcription would be allowed to pass were it so severely distorted so as to "teach falsely ....

Monica Wrote:Again I disagree with your initial premise. On what basis do you think that the teaching is paramount? My understanding is that service, ie. assistance in utilizing catalyst for the purpose of polarizing, is what's paramount.

Teaching clearly is paramount for Ra and the Confederation on the whole as regards man in 3D. This is their service. This is their utilization and catalyst for polarity. How can this be disagreed with?

(08-26-2009, 02:04 PM)Lavazza Wrote: I may be speaking without enough background education on the bible, but wasn't it more of a compilation of works from many sources over some time, not one continuously streamed work in a relatively short time such as we know TLOO to be? If so it may not be a good example of comparison since it may not be possible to think of it in terms of being 'passed' by the confederation, being that it was not one solid body of work.

(08-26-2009, 02:04 PM)Lavazza Wrote: I believe Quantum was speaking to the rather sizable difference of premise regarding reincarnation. Since the concept of reincarnation is a base concept to be understood before learning more about TLOO (I feel it safe to say), so that we may call the teachings in Oahspe to be 'severely distorted'. Or depending on your opinion, the TLOO being severely distorted!

(08-26-2009, 02:04 PM)Lavazza Wrote:

(08-26-2009, 03:46 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Secondly, if the goal was to have all such attempts have all wrinkles (distortions) ironed out beforehand, then what would be the purpose of the veil? Why not just rend the veil and be done with it?

Well I think that's a bit of an extreme next step to take. Just because the goal is to promote the least distorted information possible doesn't mean that the purpose of the veil has been or should be compromised. My understanding of the veil is to prevent us from having proof of god, so that we might learn in an environment of unknowing, and thereby accelerate our learning. Works such as TLOO seem to only reach those who call for it consciously or unconsciously. And even then it is in no way proof.

(08-26-2009, 02:04 PM)Lavazza Wrote: I only want to point out here that it is only our opinions that TLOO does not have many distortions. I know we are of like mind here, so this is perhaps fluff on my part, but it's good to stay objective.

(08-26-2009, 02:04 PM)Lavazza Wrote: Bear in mind that Ra states that they have been looking for the appropriate group to bring their information through to for 'some of your years'. Well, actually several thousand years. My interpretation from this is that indeed there are high standards to be met for contact / channeling / instrumentation.

(08-26-2009, 02:04 PM)Lavazza Wrote: Yet on the other hand I agree with your larger point / example about the calculus vs. arithmetic students. It is well made.

(08-26-2009, 02:04 PM)Lavazza Wrote:

(08-26-2009, 03:46 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: what determines the polarity is our CHOICE.

I just wanted to quickly comment that this statement has a very high level of resonance with me. I have coincidentally been thinking along these very lines heavily over the last few weeks, and in mini-debates I have with a friend of mine. My friend is obsessed over the nature of evil in society, and lately I have been maintaining that both good and evil are perspective choices for each individual. Certainly aspects of my life and belief system that I deem 'good' are evil for another. And so to use the timeless statement "One man's trash is another man's treasure" holds true. And when applied through TLOO, Ra constantly repeats that all is one, polarity is therfore ultimately an illusion, the creator desires to know all things... etc.

I'm beginning to figure this stuff out. (finally)

(08-26-2009, 02:41 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: So when communicating the Oahspe material, discussion of reincarnation could well have an infringement on the instrument, whereas with the Ra material, it was not.

(08-28-2009, 02:16 PM)airwaves Wrote: Don, Carla, and Jim probably already believed in reincarnation, therefor, there was no infringement on free will. I doubt the dude channeling Oahspe 200 odd years ago believed in reincarnation. Discounting the good folks over in asia, it is more of a new age thingy. That is generally the "rule of thumb" when deciding what information to give and what to withhold.

(08-28-2009, 02:16 PM)airwaves Wrote: Don, Carla, and Jim probably already believed in reincarnation, therefor, there was no infringement on free will. I doubt the dude channeling Oahspe 200 odd years ago believed in reincarnation. Discounting the good folks over in asia, it is more of a new age thingy. That is generally the "rule of thumb" when deciding what information to give and what to withhold.

(08-28-2009, 04:15 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Well said! Such a simple explanation.

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: I believe it safe to suggest that there is no mechanism in the LOO as simple as might seem at first brush. Nothing. I also believe it safe to say in this case that there is certainly another mechanism involved than is the mere "infringement of free will" principle.

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: Firstly:Many of the things Don asked were on many things Don was already aware of or knew for himself with certainty, which however Ra refused to answer

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: Secondly: Don moreover (IMHO) was never the point as much as was the intended audience, this in the same manner that the author of the "Ohaspe" was never the intended audience as much as was the audience it was intended for.

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: Two thousand pages of a book called the Ohaspe would have been a monster of an intent for a book designed for one single man, as much as the Law of One would be assumed to be intended for just one man, i.e. Don et al, this notwithstanding the fact that Ra left it open for the L/L group to publish or not. Surely Ra had the inkling the L/L "might" publish, and that the information might be disseminated to the public, which may have been nothing more than an unspoken hope of the Confederation to begin with as much as was the intent for the Ohaspe to be for a wider audience more than one, even if but just one single soul were saved in the process.

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: To the converse again, it would be natural to assume that there were far many more things Don did not know, or perhaps did not believe, or was not even remotely intuitively aware of, but that Ra did speak to nonetheless, i.e the entire concept of STO vs STS which is an entire antithesis of the Christian concept of "good people go to heaven - bad people go to hell".

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: So we have: (a) Don was not aware of many things, nor did he possibly believe vs disbelieve in these many things, many he further knew nothing of, yet Ra spoke to these things in any event (b) Don spoke to things which Don certainly knew of, or was intuitively aware of, or even absolutely knew with certainty of, which Ra refused to answer irrespectively.

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: Ra spoke to things Don knew nothing of, or even at first disbelieved in, yet answers and information were given, verses Ra refused to speak of things Don in fact did know of, or intuitively was aware of.

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: I also believe it safe to say in this case that there is certainly another mechanism involved than is the mere "infringement of free will" principle.

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: The principle of Reincarnation is a principle as old as Methuselah.

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: Why deny a truth better left unspoken if it is a truth, as opposed to misrepresent the truth. Better to have left it open or unspoken if not untouched.

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: Ohaspe was not a question/answer session.

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: To pursue the logic one step further in closing, it can hardly be assumed that reincarnation would be considered as anathema to speak of as an infringement of free will, yet even wildly assume that the rest of the information in Ohaspe was less than an infringement in the same breath (one would have to read it to understand this statement) and yet assume that the principle of STO vs STS, which prior to the LOO was never spoken of before, is altogether quite alright.

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: This simple bit of information radically changes Judeo-Christain-Islamic principles forever, i.e. most of the known world.

(08-31-2009, 07:22 PM)Lavazza Wrote: So I submit, perhaps the nod to Oahspe in TLOO was distortion. Perhaps it was unitended bad information. And I only submit it as an easier explanation, not necessarily the true, undeniable or final verdict on the matter. And I don't mean to just create an easy way out of a paradox rather than perhaps employ the use of Occam's Razor.

I would also differentiate my use of the word distortion from de-tuning in this case, because the question about Oahspe to Ra, from Don, does not seem like the type of transient or proof based or fear based / conspiracy based questioning that would cause de-tuning of a contact such as Ra's. Distortion here must simply be an unknown percentage of bad connection between Ra and Don via the telepathic exchange, that is inherent to that exchange.. Unless it could be argued that the contact was 100% accurate at all times? Certainly this can't be so.

Well, I could go on speculating, but what do you think?

(08-31-2009, 10:07 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I think that is a brilliant speculation, Lavazza!

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: Secondly: Don moreover (IMHO) was never the point as much as was the intended audience, this in the same manner that the author of the "Ohaspe" was never the intended audience as much as was the audience it was intended for.

Monica Wrote:Again respectfully, again I disagree with your speculation. Ra stated that numbers were not important

Monica Wrote:an audience of only a few was sufficient for them to provide their message. But that's not the same as assuming that Don was the lone intended recipient. Are you saying that Ra offered all those teachings for Don only?

Monica Wrote:And now, are Q'uo offering their teachings for Carla, Jim, and perhaps a handful of others only? How is it that you could even know this at all?

Monica Wrote:On the contrary, I would venture to guess that the Law of One might even have reached a larger audience than Oahspe.

Monica Wrote:that is a far cry from Don being the lone recipient of the teachings.

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: Two thousand pages of a book called the Ohaspe would have been a monster of an intent for a book designed for one single man, as much as the Law of One would be assumed to be intended for just one man, i.e. Don et al, this notwithstanding the fact that Ra left it open for the L/L group to publish or not. Surely Ra had the inkling the L/L "might" publish, and that the information might be disseminated to the public, which may have been nothing more than an unspoken hope of the Confederation to begin with as much as was the intent for the Ohaspe to be for a wider audience more than one, even if but just one single soul were saved in the process.

Monica Wrote:I think Ra had way more than an inkling.

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: This simple bit of information radically changes Judeo-Christain-Islamic principles forever, i.e. most of the known world.

Monica Wrote:Only for those adhering to Judeo-Christain-Islamic principles

Lavazza Wrote:I highly doubt it that Ra gave this nod to Oahspe by accident. If we are to assume that that was true I should think it would give us pause about a great many other things that we take at face value from Ra....I'm not sure how to interpret the Oahspe backing by Ra if it is not for noise, short of coming up with increasingly elaborate and less likely explanations.

(08-31-2009, 11:46 PM)Quantum Wrote:

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: Surely Ra had the inkling the L/L "might" publish

Monica Wrote:I think Ra had way more than an inkling.

This is what I stated as clearly as everything else you seem to have misunderstood?

(09-01-2009, 12:05 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Sorry for misunderstanding you. Sometimes a simple comma, or lack thereof, can alter or even reverse the perceived meaning. Chalk it up to distortion!
Quantum, do you see what is happening here? We are illustrating our subject matter with our perceived misunderstandings and subtle nuances of distinction.

(08-31-2009, 05:50 PM)Quantum Wrote: Firstly:Many of the things Don asked were on many things Don was already aware of or knew for himself with certainty, which however Ra refused to answer, this based entirely to the converse of your argument of it not infringing on Don's free will or prior belief. Answering what Don asked or had prior knowledge of or believed would not have infringed on Don's Free Will.

Ra Wrote:Questioner: There was a portion of the material from yesterday which I will read where you say “there is a certain amount of landing taking place. Some of these landings are of your own people; some are of the group known to you as Orion.” My first question is what did you mean that some of the landings are of your peoples?

Ra: I am Ra. Your peoples have, at this time/space present, the technological achievement, if you would call it that, of being able to create and fly the shape and type of craft known to you as unidentified flying objects. Unfortunately for the social memory complex vibratory rate of your peoples, these devices are not intended for the service of mankind, but for potential destructive use. This further muddles the vibratory nexus of your social memory complex, causing a situation where neither those oriented towards serving others nor those oriented towards serving self can gain the energy/power which opens the gates to intelligent infinity for the social memory complex. This in turn causes the harvest to be small.

Questioner: Are these craft that are from our peoples from what we call planes that are not incarnate at this time? Where are they based?

Ra: I am Ra. These of which we spoke are of third density and are part of the so-called military complex of various of your peoples’ societal divisions or structures.

The bases are varied. There are bases, as you would call them, undersea in your southern waters near the Bahamas as well as in your Pacific seas in various places close to your Chilean borders on the water. There are bases upon your moon, as you call this satellite, which are at this time being reworked. There are bases which move about your lands. There are bases, if you would call them that, in your skies. These are the bases of your peoples, very numerous and, as we have said, potentially destructive.

Questioner: Where do the people who operate these craft come from? Are they affiliated with any nation on Earth? What is their source?

Ra: These people come from the same place as you or I. They come from the Creator.

As you intend the question, in its shallower aspect, these people are those in your and other selves’ governments responsible for what you would term national security.

Questioner: Am I to understand then that the United States has these craft in undersea bases?

Ra: I am Ra. You are correct.

Questioner: How did the United States learn the technology to build these craft?

Ra: I am Ra. There was a mind/body/spirit complex known to your people by the vibratory sound complex, Nikola. This entity departed the illusion and the papers containing the necessary understandings were taken by mind/body/spirit complexes serving your security of national divisional complex. Thus your people became privy to the basic technology. In the case of those mind/body/spirit complexes which you call Russians, the technology was given from one of the Confederation in an attempt, approximately twenty-seven of your years ago, to share information and bring about peace among your peoples. The entities giving this information were in error, but we did many things at the end of this cycle in attempts to aid your harvest from which we learned the folly of certain types of aid. That is a contributing factor to our more cautious approach at this date, even as the need is power upon power greater, and your peoples’ call is greater and greater.

(08-31-2009, 10:07 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Furthermore, is the Council past polarity? Or does it include STS-biased (even if no longer polarized) entities as well? Could Oahspe have passed for the purpose of teaching STS entities? Now there's a thought! Does the Council 'pass' STS missions or only STO missions?

If STS missions are approved by Council, with no show of favoritism, then indeed the channeled work might have passed, full of what would be considered distortion to an STO reader. But to an STS reader...it might be right on! Are we not assuming that the Council passes only STO works? Do we have a reason to make that assumption? We know Ra/Q'uo are biased to STO, but do we know that about the Council? Aren't they past polarity, as are Ra/Q'uo? But not on an STO mission like Ra/Q'uo and therefore obliged to pass STS missions as well?

Just a thought.