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The Horrors of STS - Plenum - 03-09-2012
I think I am coming around to Shin'Ar's view of STS.
Although STS is seen as a valid way of returning to the 6th Density by Ra, I think that validity doesn't express the horrors and domination that STS beings engage in to get there.
let us examine some evidence:
1) famous STS Polarised Entities
Genghis Khan, Rasputin, Hitler
not your most cute and cuddly individuals. In fact, they waged war and worshiped torture. The amount of suffering that these individuals caused is beyond imagination. And these are the ones who succeeded.
There are those who would seek to polarise STS and use techniques of manipulation, deception, and financial oppression to keep the world enslaved.
2) psychic attack, and demonic possession
there are those who have expressed their stories on these forums of very real attempts at demonic possession. I have read these and been aghast. I can attest that as one moves toward real anchoring of Light, you attract the nasties.
this isn't a GAME. The further you get, the bigger a target you become.
3) a strict hierarchy of control
if you are in a STS structure, you do what your superior tells you to. There is no 'negotiation' or 'debate'. You hold your place or rank due to their begrudging forbearance. Fall out of line, and see what happens to you.
- -
it is nice talking about love in a very safe and protected environment.
and LOVE is the ONLY DEFENCE when it comes to encountering one of these beings or entities.
but let us not mistake this:
* they are on a different track to us, AND THAT TRACK inverts almost all the ideals that we hold dear and work towards.
* we meet each other again in 6D, but until then, their techniques are DOMINATION AND CONTROL of other entities.
our path is LOVE and ACCEPTANCE, and these things could not be further apart from each other.
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if you have ever encountered a true STS entity/being, you will receive chills and feel the life sucked from you. They TAKE, and do not GIVE an INCH.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Unbound - 03-09-2012
It is well that attention is being brought to this so much on the forum right now.
Personal power is all that matters to the pure STS, and just as the lion seeks its prey, the STS HAS to "feed" in order to survive. This is what is the driving force which causes the spiral in to complete darkness. Once you "sign the contract", you are subject to its laws by agreement to the use of the intentions associated with the field, if you wish to progress. Of course, it is always possible to switch, although I do recall Ra saying that if you are LESS polarized, it is MORE difficult to change your polarity than if you are high polarized, for polarization is power. (Charges)
Rape, pillage, destruction, incest, murder, cannibalism, sacrifice of life for self, etc, these acts are driven by a polarization in to darkness. These who only see the limited state of their Whole Self, not intentionally, but through the desperation of the fear involved with the desire to control. Some of darkness would claim they have no fear, for they see no fear of pain, or death, or atrocities, yet they quake with terror in the face of the light within themselves. This is the fear they use to power themselves, they feed on themselves, and this is why they must leech energy from others, as their energy is always in a state of diminishing, of entropy.
However, also it must be known that darkness as a "style" or state of imagery or expression, or the use of the colour black, in no way denotes these activities. Many individuals who seem to be very "dark", are actually quite positive, respectful of life, and believe in at least trying to do the common good. My time in the metal scene showed me this, we had a lot of bad reputations from the mainstream, but the people I knew, although abused, were all very good hearted people, who believe in friendship, brotherhood and appreciating life. It was a lot of frustration that we were labeled as the trouble makers when there were always way more accounts of other types of individuals committing atrocious things.
It is well to be wary of the vibrations you allow in to yourself, because some most definitely have the intention of assuming your body. This is how they expand themselves, by moving their identity in to more bodies. Remember, all entities are as multi-dimensional as we are. Wary of Aleister Crowley for this reason, I am not the only one I know who has been tried.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Bring4th_Austin - 03-09-2012
(03-09-2012, 02:50 PM)plenum Wrote: I think that validity doesn't express the horrors and domination that STS beings engage in to get there.
Those who choose STS are well aware of the "horrors and domination" that their path includes. They find beauty in the aspects of the creator that may make a being on the STO path shiver. Before the STS path was available (through the implementation of greater freewill), there was little progress towards the creator. An existence without the freewill capacity to choose STS was stagnant and, while appearing utopian, of little benefit to the Creator. Without the choice of STS available, on did not choose STO...and without a choice, there was no desire for spiritual evolution.
From a 3rd density perspective, especially one like ours' which was especially bellicose in nature, it may seem beneficial to label the ones who choose STS as enemies, and view ourselves as warriors of light meant to do battle and expel the enemy from our existence.
But how is this congruent with the expression of universal love? Is love only conditional upon believing what you believe in, finding beauty in the same things as you, and following the same path as you? Should we not look upon our STS brothers as just as much of the creator as we are, simply choosing to express itself in another fashion, and simply choosing to make a different choice? So what if we can't understand that choice? So what if one feels that STO is a "better" path? Others do not feel this way. Why label them as enemies because of this? Because they're different? That idea has caused much suffering within our existence already, and continues to do so.
They are different. Despite this, I love them and will let them be. I will protect myself and the innocent if I must, but I will not do so because I view any portion of the Creator as an enemy. I appreciate the Choice and don't condemn either side of it.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Unbound - 03-09-2012
"They are different. Despite this, I love them and will let them be. I will protect myself and the innocent if I must, but I will not do so because I think that I view any portion of the Creator as an enemy. I appreciate the choice and don't condemn either side of it."
Pretty much sums it up for me!
We must all also make choices in our polarity, which sometimes involves protection.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Shin'Ar - 03-09-2012
Dear All,
We must understand that in polarization there are extremes and direction. And as consciousnesses of free will we may choose our own direction. But we are also bound by the Law of One, which clearly defines that the universe is governed and bound by the One. Our directions are by choice, but the direction of evolution and the Ouroboros is not in our control. There are natural laws by which we must abide, without choice. This is Intelligent Energy.
Ra has spoken much on service to self, and explained it well in comparison to service to others. But in Our attempt to discern it we have missed the aspects of extremity with regard to anything of polarity. Both STS and STO will have extremity. And many here have been so involved in trying to understand STS that they have tried to make it seem like a good path to follow. And they have done so by ignoring the extreme end of that path and its consequences by focusing only on their particular aspect of it. An aspect which involves delving into the negative aspects of their self to truly understand their whole self. They have seen this as advantageous and even beneficial to becoming One with the All.
Ra tells us that STS is a valid path in that it is a good thing to come to terms with one's darker side. To understand those things about us that causes barriers and problems so that we can face them and tear them down if we so choose. And being able to accomplish this is beneifical, when it is done in the understanding of the extreme. To go there to face your demons is one thing. To go there and follow those demons is something else altogether. And this is the danger that has been ignored here for the sake of making it sound like it is okay for one to take the path of STS.
Ra tells us that we bounce back and forth. This is true of all things. The paths of STS and STO are no different than any other polarity that we bounce back and forth on. The struggle, and the goal, is to find that balance whereby the direction we move into is toward the Light, and not toward the dark. Because as we walk in those directions we walk deeper into the 'extreme' of those directions.
The extreme of light is Light, but the extreme of dark is Darkness. When one stands at the mouth of a cave, they can step inside for protection from the rain, and they can come back outside to bathe in the energy of the sun. But if one continues into the depths of the cave, the entrance slowly disappears and the extermity of the cave becomes your only reality. And in contrast, if one travels into the sun without the proper preparation its fire will consume you.
In our efforts to understand STS, let us not try to make it something that it is not for the sake of comfort with it. But let us see it as the mouth of the cave which needs to be explored very carefully while all the time never venturing too far away from the Light that waits outside.
Yes, one can certainly come to the end of cycles by going deep into the cave, but they will not do so in the same vibration and state of being as those who came to the end of that cycle by following the STO path.
On the path of darkness is one way of life, and on the path of Light is another. They are very different experiences, but experiences none the less. It is our choice. And our pointing to this fact is not an infringement on another's free will. It is simply the difference between compassion, and not caring whether you watch someone walk into a dangerous cave without warning.
I stand at the entrance to that cave with a lantern, and I do not impede the way or attempt to restrain. But no one shall enter that cave under decepetion or ignorance because I am a light on that path.
We are the Children of the Law of One; many on the path daring to go into the cave in an effort to learn more about the dark, and many walking headlong into the Light. But some walk too far into the darkness and become lost in its entanglements. Let us not, as brothers and sisters ignore this tragedy as just another aspect of free will, but let's hold our lanterns high so that they might find their way out, or better yet, choose not to go so far inside. They are NOT our enemeies, they are our fellow man making choices that they might regret, and that will not benefit the harmony of our species. That is why, in the change of densities, they will find themselves separated from us.
Abridgetoofar said:
"They are different. Despite this, I love them and will let them be. I will protect myself and the innocent if I must, but I will not do so because I think that I view any portion of the Creator as an enemy. I appreciate the choice and don't condemn either side of it." UNQUOTE
But who will you be protecting yourself from bridgetoofar? It will not be those of us who walk the path of service to others. May I suggest that instead of having to protect yourself from those who choose the STS path, that you be a Light to them before they go so far down that path that now you need to protect your innocent loved ones from them.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Unbound - 03-09-2012
I think you confused your quotations, but the point is good.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Shin'Ar - 03-09-2012
(03-09-2012, 04:05 PM)Azrael Wrote: I think you confused your quotations, but the point is good.
Thanks for the heads up Azrael, I fixed it.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Plenum - 03-09-2012
@bridge
also don't forget, that there is a WAR IN THE HEAVENS going on.
this part seems to be glossed over in many discussions.
- -
25.5 Questioner: You spoke of an Orion Confederation and of a battle being fought between the Confederation and the Orion Confederation. Is it possible to convey any concept of how this battle is fought?
Ra: I am Ra. Picture, if you will, your mind. Picture it then in total unity with all other minds of your society. You are then single-minded and that which is a weak electrical charge in your physical illusion is now an enormously powerful machine whereby thoughts may be projected as things.
In this endeavor the Orion group charges or attacks the Confederation armed with light. The result, a stand-off, as you would call it, both energies being somewhat depleted by this and needing to regroup; the negative depleted through failure to manipulate, the positive depleted through failure to accept that which is given.
- -
25.6 Questioner: Could you amplify the meaning of what you mean by the “failure to accept that which is given?”
Ra: I am Ra. At the level of time/space at which this takes place in the form of what you may call thought-war, the most accepting and loving energy would be to so love those who wished to manipulate that those entities were surrounded and engulfed, transformed by positive energies.
This, however, being a battle of equals, the Confederation is aware that it cannot, on equal footing, allow itself to be manipulated in order to remain purely positive, for then though pure it would not be of any consequence, having been placed by the so-called powers of darkness under the heel, as you may say.
It is thus that those who deal with this thought-war must be defensive rather than accepting in order to preserve their usefulness in service to others. Thusly, they cannot accept fully what the Orion Confederation wishes to give, that being enslavement. Thusly, some polarity is lost due to this friction and both sides, if you will, must then regroup.
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once we move on from this Density, it is not ALL LOVE and PEACE.
It is not resolved until ALL return to UNITY, and so while there is division in the paths, there is a battle or war to use Ra's own words.
- -
I remember when I first came across the Ra material, and it struck me how 'gritty' and 'realistic' it seemed. It painted the emotional dramas and distortions so well. It was so different to anything that I had previously read. It Was REAL.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Bring4th_Austin - 03-09-2012
If one finds it beneficial to view such events as a grand war between the two orientations, then so be it. It's just another choice made out of freewill, same as the choice to follow the STS path.
But my question remains, "how is this congruent with the expression of universal love?" When we view other-selves as enemies to be defeated, when we proclaim that our love is the only legitimate love, that our expression of the creator is the only valid expression of the creator, then how can we say that we are universally understanding and accepting?
Complete comprehension of universal love is not for us to grasp within 3rd density. There are hints spattered throughout the Ra material about the "battle" between the light and dark, and how an entity that has found true universal love would behave in such situations. We draw from them what we want to. To me, to label another as an enemy simply because they see beauty where I do not, is not a valid expression of universal love. To condemn another based on their use of freewill is no different than being condemned for my own choices.
You say, "once we move on from this Density, it is not ALL LOVE," but this assumes a definition of love than not everyone shares. It may not all be love to you, my friend, but I believe it is there, and I continue to search for love in the moment, no matter how I perceive that moment.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Plenum - 03-09-2012
@bridge
thanks for your thoughts. I think I found the heart of where my struggle is:
I quoted it to myself lol.
Quote:25.6 It is thus that those who deal with this thought-war must be defensive rather than accepting in order to preserve their usefulness in service to others. Thusly, they cannot accept fully what the Orion Confederation wishes to give, that being enslavement. Thusly, some polarity is lost due to this friction and both sides, if you will, must then regroup.
this IS what I am struggling with internally:
Thusly, they cannot accept fully what the Orion Confederation wishes to give, that being enslavement.
I recognise that the Orion forces are present, and making an 'offering'. However, I cannot accept this Offering because as Ra says: 'one would be placed under the boot of darkness.'
The consequence of this is a loss of my own polarity:
Thusly, some polarity is lost due to this friction
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I don't regard them as my 'enemy', but rather I am unable to assimilate what their have to offer, that is, enslavement. And so this inability to extend Universal Love and Acceptance in this particular situation leads to a slight loss of polarization in both sides.
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that's what I'm feeling inside.
thanks guys for helping me work this out. You were awesome!
plenum
RE: The Horrors of STS - Shin'Ar - 03-09-2012
(03-09-2012, 05:17 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: If one finds it beneficial to view such events as a grand war between the two orientations, then so be it. It's just another choice made out of freewill, same as the choice to follow the STS path.
But my question remains, "how is this congruent with the expression of universal love?" When we view other-selves as enemies to be defeated, when we proclaim that our love is the only legitimate love, that our expression of the creator is the only valid expression of the creator, then how can we say that we are universally understanding and accepting?
Complete comprehension of universal love is not for us to grasp within 3rd density. There are hints spattered throughout the Ra material about the "battle" between the light and dark, and how an entity that has found true universal love would behave in such situations. We draw from them what we want to. To me, to label another as an enemy simply because they see beauty where I do not, is not a valid expression of universal love. To condemn another based on their use of freewill is no different than being condemned for my own choices.
You say, "once we move on from this Density, it is not ALL LOVE," but this assumes a definition of love than not everyone shares. It may not all be love to you, my friend, but I believe it is there, and I continue to search for love in the moment, no matter how I perceive that moment.
Bridge, How can you talk in such a way and not see that there are things of darkness that are certainly not things of beauty regardless of who is doing the perceiving. Are you going to suggest to us that the rape of an innocent child might be seen as beauty in someone's eyes because they choose to follow that path?
In our decisions and choices we must make distinctions. Murder and rape is what it is. I assure you that you would not think it a thing of beauty if it was happening to you or someone you love.
These are the extremities We spoke of.
We must somehow understand that polarity exists all through creation, and will continue to exist into infinity. the goal is to realize unity and Oneness, but the reality is that seeking it is infinite. The One is One with the All, into infinity.
These polarities will continue to exist at all levels of existence. And I am sure that there are forces of oppostion throughout the universe. Do you really think that our tiny portion of the universe is the only place of conflicting paths and polarites?
There are conflicts out there that defy our comprehension.
But regardless of what density we find ourselves, or where we are in the universe, there is always choice and direction, light and darkness. And there is always the ever evolving quest to attain higher being.
I hope that as we attain Higher Being and get closer to the Light that the things of darkness will lessen and decrease. I am sure that is the case. But I have no delusion that polarity exists always and everywhere.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Bring4th_Austin - 03-09-2012
(03-09-2012, 05:41 PM)plenum Wrote: I don't regard them as my 'enemy', but rather I am unable to assimilate what their have to offer, that is, enslavement. And so this inability to extend Universal Love and Acceptance in this particular situation leads to a slight loss of polarization in both sides.
I share your inability to understand this as well, but I don't struggle with it. The STS entity views their enslavement as the Creator's love, and if an STO entity accepts that love, their freewill is jeopardized. The choice of protection is simple to me, even though Ra hinted that it is one that is eventually abandoned at some point in the STO path:
Quote:33.11
Questioner: This motion picture brought out the point about which we have been talking. The Colonel had to make a decision. I was wondering about his polarization. He could have knuckled under, you might say, to the negative forces, but he chose to defend his friend instead. Is it possible for you to estimate which is more positively polarizing: to defend the positively oriented entity, or to allow suppression by the negatively oriented entities?
Ra: I am Ra. This question takes in the scope of fourth-density as well as your own and its answer may best be seen by the action of the entity called Jehoshuah, which you call Jesus. This entity was to be defended by its friends. The entity reminded its friends to put away the sword. This entity then delivered itself to be put to the physical death. The impulse to protect the loved other-self is one which persists through the fourth-density, a density abounding in compassion. More than this we cannot and need not say.
We know that, after this act, Jesus then graduated to 5th density (originally entering incarnation as a 4D entity).
I cannot imagine not protecting someone who cannot protect themselves, or my dearest loved ones, or myself in any situation which may cause them suffering. But I am okay with this.
I cannot accept the love of the STS entity through enslavement because that would ultimately inhibit my own choice to share love myself. I don't view the attempt at enslavement as an attack, but rather as an offering of love as the STS entity understands it, and if there is a loss of polarization because of this, so be it...I don't care much for the intricacies of polarization, though I'd imagine being enslaved would inhibit my ability to polarize further if that were my desire.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Shin'Ar - 03-09-2012
(03-09-2012, 06:16 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: I cannot imagine not protecting someone who cannot protect themselves, or my dearest loved ones, or myself in any situation which may cause them suffering. But I am okay with this.
I cannot accept the love of the STS entity through enslavement because that would ultimately inhibit my own choice to share love myself. ... I don't view the attempt at enslavement as an attack, but rather as an offering of love as the STS entity understands it, ...
Austin, think in terms of extremity. You are drawing lines to allow yourself to condone STS. What if the STS is wanting to rape you instead of enslave you? Would you still view that as an offering of love? What if they wanted to murder your child? Would you be okay with that? There is an extremity to the path you speak of that you refuse to acknowledge.
You are deluding yourself by refusing to delve deeper into the meaning of the path you follow.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Bring4th_Austin - 03-09-2012
It is a given that rape, and things that one might consider worse, are included in the broad label of enslavement. I have considered much more than you assume, and I am not responsible for your inability to understand my disposition.
Your posts are rife with assumption and condescension. I am not deluding myself...I witness, and on some accounts experience, the extremities of suffering in our illusion just as anyone else does. You don't know what I understand or what I consider. I'm finding it hard not to be insulted by the insinuation that rape specifically is something I had not even considered...you don't know what sort of experience I have with such an action. It is an extremely false assumption.
I am not ignoring anything and I am not deluding myself. Having to continually explain this is tiring and I find the benefit does not make up for the time wasted. I won't reply to any more posts from you which flagrantly assume that I have not experienced, considered, or understood the depth of any given topic. The only reason I replied to this one is because for some reason you specifically mention rape, and I feel I should suggest that you probably shouldn't assume what sort of experience someone has had with such a topic.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Shin'Ar - 03-09-2012
(03-09-2012, 06:22 PM)ShinAr Wrote:(03-09-2012, 06:16 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: I cannot imagine not protecting someone who cannot protect themselves, or my dearest loved ones, or myself in any situation which may cause them suffering. But I am okay with this.
I cannot accept the love of the STS entity through enslavement because that would ultimately inhibit my own choice to share love myself. ... I don't view the attempt at enslavement as an attack, but rather as an offering of love as the STS entity understands it, ...
Austin, think in terms of extremity. You are drawing lines to allow yourself to condone STS. What if the STS is wanting to rape you instead of enslave you? Would you still view that as an offering of love? What if they wanted to murder your child? Would you be okay with that? There is an extremity to the path you speak of that you refuse to acknowledge.
You are deluding yourself by refusing to delve deeper into the meaning of the path you follow.
(03-09-2012, 06:36 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: It is a given that rape, and things that one might consider worse, are included in the broad label of enslavement. I have considered much more than you assume, and I am not responsible for your inability to understand my disposition.
Your posts are rife with assumption and condescension. I am not deluding myself...I witness, and on some accounts experience, the extremities of suffering in our illusion just as anyone else does. You don't know what I understand or what I consider. I'm finding it hard not to be insulted by the insinuation that rape specifically is something I had not even considered...you don't know what sort of experience I have with such an action. It is an extremely false assumption.
I am not ignoring anything and I am not deluding myself. Having to continually explain this is tiring and I find the benefit does not make up for the time wasted. I won't reply to any more posts from you which flagrantly assume that I have not experienced, considered, or understood the depth of any given topic. The only reason I replied to this one is because for some reason you specifically mention rape, and I feel I should suggest that you probably shouldn't assume what sort of experience someone has had with such a topic.
There is no need to be offended when someone responds to your statements with questions about why you think the way you do based upon that which you have to say.
It is assumed that when you make a statement on a forum that are willing to discuss what you say with others.
When you say something like, "you are okay with not having to defend your loved ones from attack, because you believe that the attackers have the right to believe that their attack is a thing of beauty", than you should not be surprside or offended if someone questions your reasoning as they try to understand you.
When I respond by telling you how I feel about what you say, that is my reaction to your statements. I am not being insulting nor do I mean to be insulting. So I apologize if you have taken it that way. But how do you suggest that I tell you that I believe you are deluding yourself, without actually saying that?
It is reasonable for you to be emotionally affected by my reactions and words, but it is not necessary to take offense unless I say something that is deliberately insulting. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Bring4th_Austin - 03-09-2012
I guess you don't fully understand. This interaction itself is tiring so I won't go any further to explain myself after this.
You assumed that I had not personally contemplated, let alone had any personal experience with, the act of rape. Your statement that I was deluding myself by not "delving deeper," i.e. considering the extremity of rape, was an assumption, and extremely false assumption.
The fact that I'm choosing not to respond to things like this is not out of emotional dissonance, but because it is tiring and not beneficial to anyone to continue to reiterate the fact that your assumptions are false. The description of such words as condescending is not an emotional statement either, it is simply discerning the fact that you believe that you have contemplated something that I haven't and view it from a point of broader awareness.
I was not insulted by the fact you said I was deluding myself, I was insulted by the fact that you used rape specifically as an example of why I was deluding myself. I'll reiterate once more that you do not know what I have experienced or considered. Perhaps you weren't being deliberately insulting, but your assumptions on this specific topic were so wildly false, the topic innately holding such strong emotional charge, that insulted is how I felt.
So if you think I'm deluding myself, feel free to say so, but because you seem to have a knack for false assumptions, don't expect any sort of response, because I find it a waste of time to refute them.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Shin'Ar - 03-09-2012
(03-09-2012, 08:12 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: I guess you don't fully understand. This interaction itself is tiring so I won't go any further to explain myself after this.
You assumed that I had not personally contemplated, let alone had any personal experience with, the act of rape. Your statement that I was deluding myself by not "delving deeper," i.e. considering the extremity of rape, was an assumption, and extremely false assumption.
The fact that I'm choosing not to respond to things like this is not out of emotional dissonance, but because it is tiring and not beneficial to anyone to continue to reiterate the fact that your assumptions are false. The description of such words as condescending is not an emotional statement either, it is simply discerning the fact that you believe that you have contemplated something that I haven't and view it from a point of broader awareness.
I was not insulted by the fact you said I was deluding myself, I was insulted by the fact that you used rape specifically as an example of why I was deluding myself. I'll reiterate once more that you do not know what I have experienced or considered. Perhaps you weren't being deliberately insulting, but your assumptions on this specific topic were so wildly false, the topic innately holding such strong emotional charge, that insulted is how I felt.
So if you think I'm deluding myself, feel free to say so, but because you seem to have a knack for false assumptions, don't expect any sort of response, because I find it a waste of time to refute them.
Please Austin, this is not what I want to happen between us. And it is unnecessary. It is misunderstanding. Pleaser reconsider in the honor of love and brotherhood that I have not meant any insult.
It is not about any particular acts of brutality. Just because i chose those as examples, does not mean that I insinuate that you do or do not have experience with such. I wish with all me heart that you had not. As I wish with all my heart that no one should have to suffer those things.
I was not making any implications that you had any experience with any particular acts of brrutality, I just happend to use those as examples of acvts of darkness. I could have used any number of terrible offenses agaisnt humanity. that you took them so personally is regretful and I wish I could takje it back now that I know that you are so intimate about such things.
Can we not just drop it at this point and remain brothers here and just assume that a misunderstanding has taken place?
I have no need to make my point at the loss of a friend. What I had to say was said in the earlier posts and I stand by them. there is no reason for me to establish ill will to continue the discussion.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Bring4th_Austin - 03-09-2012
Shin'Ar, feel free to PM me. I am not withholding all discussion of your posts, simply the one's which fling assumptions of lack of understanding or contemplation. There's not need to cease any discussion you wish to have, I'm just explaining why I may not respond to a direct statement towards me.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Steppingfeet - 03-09-2012
(03-09-2012, 03:33 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: Those who choose STS are well aware of the "horrors and domination" that their path includes. They find beauty in the aspects of the creator that may make a being on the STO path shiver. Before the STS path was available (through the implementation of greater freewill), there was little progress towards the creator. An existence without the freewill capacity to choose STS was stagnant and, while appearing utopian, of little benefit to the Creator. Without the choice of STS available, on did not choose STO...and without a choice, there was no desire for spiritual evolution.
Dear abridgetoofar, a beautiful post you’ve made. Thank you.
Coming to terms with (and figuring out how to relate to) the mere existence of the service-to-self polarity, much less it's cohabitation on the same planetary sphere as those of service-to-others orientation, is the primary grist for the mill. It's what we're doing here. It's that for which third density is designed.
So as you mentioned above, abridgetoofar, if one asks oneself what the value of the STS path is, one of the central answers to that question is to consciously recognize its incomparable utility in both driving evolution forward, and serving as catalyst for the development of will and faith. (I link the veil and its subsequent outgrowth, polarity, as one inextricable concept.)
I think that this particular means of evaluating the odd situation of polarity in a unified universe appeals more to the philosophical aspects of us. And as all seekers are philosophers on one level or another, gaining perspective, and understanding the role of something in the largest possible picture - be it the idea of polarity, or sexuality, or procreation, or death, etc. - helps the mind to release the resistance that says, "This can't be. This shouldn't be. This is a wrong-ness. This is an error", in the embrace of what already is.
Though difficult it is to see the real-world everyday suffering inflicted as result of STS intention (in addition to suffering caused by basic ignorance and unpolarized action), and console oneself by affirming that, in the larger picture, this is actually helpful for evolution, the position you put forward, abridgetoofar, should, if sufficiently contemplated, help one to fall in love with the epic, passionate outward drama of polarity in the recognition that it has purpose, meaning, utility, and value to the Original Desire.
When I think of why one would choose the STS path, I think of that question that was famously asked of Gregory Mallory, a British mountaineer who sought to climb Mt Everest. In response to the question, "Why do you want to climb Everest", Mallory replied, "Because it's there."
Likewise with the service to self polarity. It exists. It is a possibility. It is "there".
One of philosophical orientation can recognize that all possibilities are ultimately valid. That the possibility exists speaks to its rightness and its need to be explored. In a universe where everything we see, feel, know, and experience is created, what could be created that is, in the truest sense of the word, "wrong"?
Thusly one can utilize this philisophical perspective to open the self up to the underlying sacredness of all experience, including and especially when viewing the actions, intentions, and perceptions of the opposite polarity.
(03-09-2012, 03:33 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: From a 3rd density perspective, especially one like ours' which was especially bellicose in nature, it may seem beneficial to label the ones who choose STS as enemies, and view ourselves as warriors of light meant to do battle and expel the enemy from our existence.
Agreed. Due to our historical influences on this planet, the category of “enemy” seems ubiquitous, even among relatively loving beings.
But the idea of “enemy” is one which is, eventually, depolarizing to the positive entity. At some point, the concept I think must be released in order to polarize further along the positive path, because polarizing positively necessarily includes the consciousness of love/acceptance - without exception.
(03-09-2012, 03:33 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: But how is this congruent with the expression of universal love? Is love only conditional upon believing what you believe in, finding beauty in the same things as you, and following the same path as you? Should we not look upon our STS brothers as just as much of the creator as we are, simply choosing to express itself in another fashion, and simply choosing to make a different choice? So what if we can't understand that choice? So what if one feels that STO is a "better" path? Others do not feel this way. Why label them as enemies because of this? Because they're different? That idea has caused much suffering within our existence already, and continues to do so.
Beautifully framed!
As with all things, there are varying degrees of rejection. On the surface there is the healthy and necessary rejection of the services of the STS path. If a service-to-self individual wants to enslave me, I reject that, and then defriend them on Facebook.
And on a deeper level, the rejection you speak of is the rejection that closes the heart to another and makes love conditional. It is this type of rejection the STO entity would do well, I think, to become conscious of, because ultimately this form of rejection is denying/abhorring/condemning a portion of the universal-self, or all-self.
The positive entity wishes to find that one identity within that is the same within all beings, and will have difficulty doing so if the positive entity is rejecting portions of the creation, i.e., portions of its Self.
(03-09-2012, 03:33 PM)abridgetoofar Wrote: They are different. Despite this, I love them and will let them be. I will protect myself and the innocent if I must, but I will not do so because I view any portion of the Creator as an enemy. I appreciate the Choice and don't condemn either side of it.
THIS is the conundrum, and this is what you, Shin’Ar, positively oriented being, get stuck on. How to love while saying “no”. How to love while not condoning. How to accept while rejecting.
In the answers to these questions lies the work of third density.
As I hit on above, the type of love you speak of, abridgetoofar, is the type that transcends spatial and temporal circumstance, and says YES to the isness of the moment, and embraces all that arises within this sacred, eternal now. It is a love which says:
“That too is me.”
“You and I are One”.
“I, ultimately, am not separate from you”
The beauty of the mystic's path is that the word “ultimately” doesn’t mean “eventually”, or a “long-ass time from now”, but refers to the TRUE condition/state of this moment as it is – all other appearances being just that: appearance, distortion, illusion.
With love/light,
GLB
RE: The Horrors of STS - Shin'Ar - 03-09-2012
You and I may be One in the vast scheme of things as the All Gary. But our choices are ours alone. My choices are not yours.
I am sorry friends, I do not understand your thinking. It does not meet with my understanding of atrocity agasint humanity. I cannot say that I see beaulty in the torture of another. I cannot say that I love one who is murdering a fellow human being. I cannot say that I can see myself doing the same because we are all One. I really have no idea why a person would think the way that you do.
What I can say is that because of my love for humanity I can love them knowing that they are at the mercy of human nature and their horrible choices. I can feel sorry for them and their lifestyle. I can want better things for them out of love. But I cannot say that I love them for what they do. I cannot condone inhumane acts and justify them by considering that I am free to do the same.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree because if I ever met you in a dark alley while you were in the midst of causing such harm to another, you would very suddenly realize the very real difference between the One and individual choice. You would not find reaction based upon the fact that I did not love you, but based upon the fact that I love the one that you are choosing to kill.
Choices have consequences.
RE: The Horrors of STS - native - 03-09-2012
I wouldn't be surprised if a large portion of 6d wanderers were previously service to self. Considering the negative path spends the majority of its evolution denying an aspect of self, you would figure they would be the ones who need to "..recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect."
I also think in the positive wisdom density, many "negative" attributes/perversions are explored and experienced since they are able to create with light.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Shin'Ar - 03-09-2012
(03-09-2012, 11:12 PM)Icaro Wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if a large portion of 6d wanderers were previously service to self. Considering the negative path spends the majority of its evolution denying an aspect of self, you would figure they would be the ones who need to "..recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect."
I also think in the positive wisdom density, many "negative" attributes/perversions are explored and experienced since they are able to create with light.
So tell me Icaro,
What perversions would you like to explore as beneficial to your self development, and do you have a line drawn that you will not cross?
RE: The Horrors of STS - native - 03-09-2012
The point I made has nothing to do with what may or may not be subdued desires of the individual. I was illustrating that eventually all aspects of self will probably have to be explored.
RE: The Horrors of STS - Steppingfeet - 03-09-2012
(03-09-2012, 11:00 PM)ShinAr Wrote: You and I may be One in the vast scheme of things as the All Gary. But our choices are ours alone. My choices are not yours.
Shin'Ar, the "vast scheme of things" you mention above is what the spiritual seeker is seeking to gain, or remember, or become.
If we're meeting on ground where we can each acknowledge the unity of all things, then I can respond asking: why disregard the highest vision one knows? Why say, "Yeah, all is one, that is nice, but the situation is different on the ground."? Why not seek to incorporate that highest vision into each moment and each circumstance and each choice?
(03-09-2012, 11:00 PM)ShinAr Wrote: I am sorry friends, I do not understand your thinking. It does not meet with my understanding of atrocity agasint humanity. I cannot say that I see beaulty in the torture of another. I cannot say that I love one who is murdering a fellow human being. I cannot say that I can see myself doing the same because we are all One. I really have no idea why a person would think the way that you do.
Personally I think those acts you identify are ugly, and cause me to recoil emotionally, and cause me pain.
Were I the recipient of any similar act of violence, or deliberate STS-attempt to manipulate or control, my initial impulse wouldn't be to welcome the individual over for tea'n'crumpets. Being unenlightened, I would have any number of less-than-loving responses.
But per the ideals of my spiritual path, I would work on forgiveness for the other and compassion, for similar reasons to those you state in the quote below. Your reasons actually are quite congruent with that which Jesus is reported to have said on the cross. "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."
The world is replete with stories of people doing the impossible, that is, of people forgiving/loving those that have committed some grievous crime. I read a story recently about a father who forgave, and became a mentor to, an individual who killed his son in cold blood. The father, as with all people like him, basically saw the Creator in the one playing the role of "criminal".
Here is a thought for consideration. What if instead of loving the heinous act, you instead loved the Creator within the other?
Ra's basic definition of "love":
87.21 Ra: I am Ra. The root cause of blockage is the lack of the ability to see the other-self as the Creator, or to phrase this differently, the lack of love.
(03-09-2012, 11:00 PM)ShinAr Wrote: What I can say is that because of my love for humanity I can love them knowing that they are at the mercy of human nature and their horrible choices. I can feel sorry for them and their lifestyle. I can want better things for them out of love. But I cannot say that I love them for what they do. I cannot condone inhumane acts and justify them by considering that I am free to do the same.
I don't think that loving an other, and seeing the Creator in them, is incompatible with justice, and a system of justice.
Personally I am quite confused regarding the appropriateness of the planet's various systems of justice. But in principle I think some system of justice, consequence, and holding others responsible for their actions is a third-density necessity in a world of mixed, and mostly unpolarized, orientation.
And the reason to love/accept the other isn't precisely because, as you said in your final sentence, you are "free to do the same", though that can certainly factor in. It is because they are the Creator. It is because you are irreducibly one with them. It is because, ultimately, there is no "you" and "them".
I think it would be helpful to begin and end with that fact:
The other is the Creator.
Try that out next time. Look at the faces of the negative elite that occupy so many positions of power in this world and, from my standpoint, F things up here; look at the face of the murderer who killed an innocent person; look at the face of the swindler who cheated an elderly couple of their life savings; look at the face of the promulgator of negative philosophy that leads people astray: See the Creator.
If oneness is your highest vision, then what harm could come from contemplating your oneness with those whose acts you disapprove?
It doesn't mean that such a person should not be brought to justice, or that the positive entity should purchase balloons for the murderer and throw them a party, or that the positive entity should contribute money and support the negatively oriented politician.
It means, among other things, that you've lifted your vision from the miasma of illusion. You see through the outer costumes of polarity -- of polarized entities and polarized acts. You see the other for what they really are: the Creator.
And in that seeing is unconditional love.
And in that seeing is light.
And in that seeing is unity.
And in that seeing is joy.
Not the joy of, "That small country's economy you just ruined was awesome! High five dark-lord-face!"
It is the joy of knowing that even in the face of malice, torture, brutality, ignorance, domination, destruction, subjugation, enslavement, and control - nothing real can be threatened.
It is the joy of knowing that the play you see is one of shifting, illusory, finite forms that have only temporary existence and derive from the formless.
It is the joy of freedom, of waking from the dream of separation and knowing that, regardless of all outer appearance, all is well and will forever be well.
It is the joy of having a consciousness of peace which cannot be broken by any event within the world, that peace which, as if often quoted, "passeth all understanding".
It is the joy of being alive, of being at one with the Creator, of being free to serve and to offer all of yourself without fear and without condemning others.
Jesus (as with other teachers) had this joy and this freedom. He, like others, lived in a brutal world of stupid acts committed by stupid people, and negative acts committed by consciously negative people, and his response was not, "Get off my planet sinners", but rather, "Love the sinner".
Love redeems.
(03-09-2012, 11:00 PM)ShinAr Wrote: I guess we will just have to agree to disagree because if I ever met you in a dark alley while you were in the midst of causing such harm to another, you would very suddenly realize the very real difference between the One and individual choice. You would not find reaction based upon the fact that I did not love you, but based upon the fact that I love the one that you are choosing to kill. Choices have consequences.
Shin'Ar, where did I or anyone else imply that to love another means to not take action in the face of injustice? Or to not do ones best to help another?
And if I personally was ever in the middle of hurting another in the manner to which you allude in the above paragraph, I hope someone would stop me and promptly dispense with a thorough ass-beating. : )
With love, GLB
RE: The Horrors of STS - Shin'Ar - 03-09-2012
(03-09-2012, 11:29 PM)Icaro Wrote: The point I made has nothing to do with what may or may not be subdued desires of the individual. I was illustrating that eventually all aspects of self will probably have to be explored.
Than we are in disagreement, for I do not see where that has to be the case. If you believe that everyone has the free will to choose their path, than why do you assume that one must experience the path of darkness? This is a contradiction. What if one chooses to never go down that path?
Gary,
My point about being in the alley was that 'at the time of such offense' you would see the difference between being the One and being the fragment of the one.
There seems to be this thinking that because we are all One and therefore the Creator, that anything that is done no matter how brutal, is nothing more than an act of the One God, which we are.
Can you make this world a place of love free of hate and brutality? Are you God? Than show us how much you love us and end the torment and suffering of children across the world right now. Do it!
Having trouble accomplishing that, God, I mean Gary.
Please, do not be insulted. I am trying my best to have you see where I am thinking from.
That we are One does not mean that we are God in this second of existence. There is direction. There is choice. We are moving and an aspect of the One that is no longer immovable in the vortex of the Source. That is memory. We are now that One Consciousness experiencing this existence in an evolved manner. A state of being in which we are subject to the Law of One and the many laws of nature. We are subject to the design and process and purpose.
That we are One does not mean that we are exempt from the process that we have estasblished, or that it changes as it evolves.
That we are One does not mean that when we make choices as to which direction we walk, that those choices are the same, and have the same affect and result as other fragments of the One. The Law of One has been established, and within it the One is divided into many fragments which it uses to experience creation. That is the Law. Can you now alter that law because you claim to be the Creator? Can you now choose to act in hatred toward a fellow human and abuse them, and then claim that because you are God that is was an act of love? Can you alter the course of existecne and defy the laws of nature and declare that a murderer should be loved because it is really you.
I believe that you know that there is a flaw in your thinking. I believe that you want to make this aspect of the One and the All make sense in every situation and circumstance. But you have to know, that when you would look into the eyes of a man that you have just witnessed raping a child, that you would not see yourself there. You have more to consider here than what you define as being One. you have to answer to yourself that if this is what you believe, than why do you NOT see yourself in that rapist's eyes.
RE: The Horrors of STS - native - 03-10-2012
(03-09-2012, 11:50 PM)ShinAr Wrote: Than we are in disagreement, for I do not see where that has to be the case. If you believe that everyone has the free will to choose their path, than why do you assume that one must experience the path of darkness? This is a contradiction. What if one chooses to never go down that path?
I see the confusion. It was said that in fifth density, anything can be constructed with consciousness. So what I mean is that there are probably simulations of dark experiences and situations, not a literal switch into negative time/space.
RE: The Horrors of STS - 3DMonkey - 03-10-2012
(03-09-2012, 02:50 PM)plenum Wrote: I think I am coming around to Shin'Ar's view of STS.
Although STS is seen as a valid way of returning to the 6th Density by Ra, I think that validity doesn't express the horrors and domination that STS beings engage in to get there.
let us examine some evidence:
1) famous STS Polarised Entities
Genghis Khan, Rasputin, Hitler
not your most cute and cuddly individuals. In fact, they waged war and worshiped torture. The amount of suffering that these individuals caused is beyond imagination. And these are the ones who succeeded.
There are those who would seek to polarise STS and use techniques of manipulation, deception, and financial oppression to keep the world enslaved.
2) psychic attack, and demonic possession
there are those who have expressed their stories on these forums of very real attempts at demonic possession. I have read these and been aghast. I can attest that as one moves toward real anchoring of Light, you attract the nasties.
this isn't a GAME. The further you get, the bigger a target you become.
3) a strict hierarchy of control
if you are in a STS structure, you do what your superior tells you to. There is no 'negotiation' or 'debate'. You hold your place or rank due to their begrudging forbearance. Fall out of line, and see what happens to you.
- -
it is nice talking about love in a very safe and protected environment.
and LOVE is the ONLY DEFENCE when it comes to encountering one of these beings or entities.
but let us not mistake this:
* they are on a different track to us, AND THAT TRACK inverts almost all the ideals that we hold dear and work towards.
* we meet each other again in 6D, but until then, their techniques are DOMINATION AND CONTROL of other entities.
our path is LOVE and ACCEPTANCE, and these things could not be further apart from each other.
- -
if you have ever encountered a true STS entity/being, you will receive chills and feel the life sucked from you. They TAKE, and do not GIVE an INCH.
Okay, look... If you want to go separating self from STS by describing so much STS in ecistence, what is really happening is an STS manifestation within the mind. Everything assaults the senses as catalyst, right? There is a thought war going on, right? LOL, it's all happening in my mind!!!! All of it. It ain't anything outside of me. I take it in. I polarize it. I see what I choose to see.
RE: The Horrors of STS - zenmaster - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 01:32 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: LOL, it's all happening in my mind!!!! All of it.Have you figured out what 'mind' is yet?
RE: The Horrors of STS - 3DMonkey - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 02:50 AM)zenmaster Wrote:(03-10-2012, 01:32 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: LOL, it's all happening in my mind!!!! All of it.Have you figured out what 'mind' is yet?
Thoughts
RE: The Horrors of STS - Shin'Ar - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 09:30 AM)3DMonkey Wrote:(03-10-2012, 02:50 AM)zenmaster Wrote:(03-10-2012, 01:32 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: LOL, it's all happening in my mind!!!! All of it.Have you figured out what 'mind' is yet?
Thoughts
Gonna be hard for us to argue that one Zen, lol.