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What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - yossarian - 01-22-2012
What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave?
In addition, what's the difference between total service to others and being a slave?
Does the Law of One see Christianity as promoting a slave morality? Does the Law of One endorse that slave morality?
Where does mysticism/religion/spirituality used to control and pacify separate from mysticism/religion/spirituality that is beneficial for the follower?
And why does it seem like when a teaching leads to material prosperity is often considered immoral?
I'd appreciate your insights on this confusing question.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Plenum - 01-22-2012
(01-22-2012, 06:37 AM)yossarian Wrote: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave?
by this, you mean - just taking what is dished out (by your boss, by your society, by your family) and not saying a word, or complaining about it?
I guess one can be non-assertive to the point of letting others walk all over you. I think you (in the general 'you') as the Creator also deserve respect and autonomy.
Quote:In addition, what's the difference between total service to others and being a slave?
that is a very interesting point. Others have noted that a great system would be to have STS masters/overlords, and all their servants as STO, and then everyone would be happy! lol.
again, I think STO implies a certain autonomy, a certain element of free will. Ra mentions in one of the sessions that in planets with a high percentage of STS Harvest, there is almost zero STO Harvest on that same planet ... STO needs a certain room to breathe and choose that path. Being a slave (and I include wage slave in that) is not really Service-to-Others ... it is only 'serving others' in that sense of the term. Again, there must be a component of choice in this.
Quote:Where does mysticism/religion/spirituality used to control and pacify separate from mysticism/religion/spirituality that is beneficial for the follower?
again, the element of intent is key. Most of the ruling class have used religion/spirituality to pacify and control their populations.
if you are free to choose your path, you are living in a place where you can control your self-development. If you are living in a country where everyone expects you to be 'buddhist' or 'christian' or 'muslim' and you have to pretend to have those beliefs ... different story ... that is mind and population control.
Quote:And why does it seem like when a teaching leads to material prosperity is often considered immoral?
how do you define material prosperity? how much money is that lol.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - apeiron - 01-22-2012
(01-22-2012, 06:37 AM)yossarian Wrote: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave?
In addition, what's the difference between total service to others and being a slave?
Does the Law of One see Christianity as promoting a slave morality? Does the Law of One endorse that slave morality?
Where does mysticism/religion/spirituality used to control and pacify separate from mysticism/religion/spirituality that is beneficial for the follower?
And why does it seem like when a teaching leads to material prosperity is often considered immoral?
I'd appreciate your insights on this confusing question.
I would like to include a response in terms of energy centers and chakras.
Besides the veil that impedes so many insights the current environment is still third density or yellow ray. However, orange pressure on the population and even the population expressing this ray or characteristic is very strong. And Ra mentioned something like this, contrasting green ray planetary formation and mixed harvest.
If you need 51% service to others you cannot be on third density or yellow ray in 'total' service to others. That would imply 100%, only achievable in higher densities that start in 4th and end in early 6d.
You cannot be a slave and be in service to others, since slavery is the path of STS.
In order to be more than 51% according to Ra, you must separate from STS path, starting in 4th or green ray. It is via the formation of a social memory complex that more than 51% can be accomplished.
So one path is service to others the other is sts or slavery they are opposite. In third density, service to others requires an autonomy that is not possible if one is a slave, then in 3d negative planets there are no known cases of services to others graduates.
The current religions of Christianity, etc have been used as a mean to control and promote a planet that is very mixed and materialistic as opposed to another approaches to live in third density. When the Ra complex was 3d in Venus, these problems were not an issue and their society was very harmonic. Besides, the origin of these religions have an Orion influence so they say.
In terms of looking at things under the vibrations perspective and their correspondence to densities, materialistic teachings are STS since it promotes the bypassing of green and blue rays, currently the orange push being great in the population from the powers to be, the population having to put more efforts just to put food on the table, looking for jobs, etc.
This have nothing to do with material prosperity since the purpose of a great wave of wanderers (including Tesla) was precisely to free third density being so enough time was available to pursue in this case the Law of One. So one can see that the materialistic teaching are precisely the opposite to achieve better material conditions for the population in this world with food, leisure time, etc being available in great quantities to most of the entities.
In any case this planet is not an harmonious planet, it is a mixed planet.
Notice that a separation between STS and STO must occur by necessity starting in 4th density or green ray at the planetary level (must exist in different planets). Otherwise, possibly slavery would be the end product.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Ecz - 01-22-2012
(01-22-2012, 06:37 AM)yossarian Wrote: And why does it seem like when a teaching leads to material prosperity is often considered immoral?
My opinion on this (like Plenum) depends on how 'prosperous' the person has become. I draw the line at sustainability. Are you gluttonously consuming far more resources than would be sustainable if everyone on Earth did the same? If so, you're actions are indirectly hurting others by removing their access to the same resources.
Also, being 'prosperous' (again, this is subjective term) also carries the potential to get a person too attached to the material world. Effectively hi-jacking your psyche's natural reward system by replacing accomplishment with the acquisition of things. The person then becomes stagnate and loses their life's 'progression' supplementing this natural drive instead with shopping sprees and (often) SSRI's.
That said, I believe we should all have abundance. Abundance of healthy food, good living conditions, clean water, access to technology/transportation, etc. I just don't see the need for 40 room mansions and v12 maseratis.
As for turning the other cheek -- I use that method if I feel like it will be effective. As in, if someone is being blatantly mean toward me - I will take the abuse and maintain my courtesy in an attempt to shame them into rectifying their actions. This often results in an apology.
That said, even Buddha Boy is forced to layeth the smacketh from time to time
http://news.oneindia.in/2010/07/28/nepalesebuddha-boy-admits-to-beating-up-locals-fordistur.html
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Diana - 01-22-2012
(01-22-2012, 06:37 AM)yossarian Wrote: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave?
The difference is in your choice, intention and mindset:
1) You may turn the other cheek because you consciously choose to; you realize that the drama being played out is the other person's drama, not yours, and you are indifferent to it, while possibly having compassion for the other.
2) You may turn the other cheek because you choose to follow what some religion tells you you should do; this is being a slave.
(01-22-2012, 06:37 AM)yossarian Wrote: In addition, what's the difference between total service to others and being a slave?
It is in conscious choice:
1) You may choose STO, but STO doesn't mean you give yourself up to everyone else. It is just the mindset from which you operate. You don't sacrifice yourself for others, you just choose to be of service in balance with your respect for all things, including yourself.
2) You may have a victim mindset, whereby you haven't chosen STO, but rather given into your "lot" to be always putting others before self. This is being a slave (to your own choices).
(01-22-2012, 06:37 AM)yossarian Wrote: Does the Law of One see Christianity as promoting a slave morality? Does the Law of One endorse that slave morality?
I don't know what the LOO states about this, but I think Christianity and all religions promote slave mentality. They all expect their followers to follow--this is being a slave to something.
(01-22-2012, 06:37 AM)yossarian Wrote: Where does mysticism/religion/spirituality used to control and pacify separate from mysticism/religion/spirituality that is beneficial for the follower?
When one becomes a follower.
(01-22-2012, 06:37 AM)yossarian Wrote: And why does it seem like when a teaching leads to material prosperity is often considered immoral?
Because it's about control. Keep the masses thinking certain things, such as, Money is the root of all evil, and it creates a situation that makes the money and the people easier to control.
The idea is to think for yourself, trust your own conclusions. Don't "follow" and don't "believe." Once you believe, your mind is set and information is filtered. Make conscious choices.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - TheFifty9Sound - 01-22-2012
I agree with Diana in her use of the words "conscious choice". I think it's impossible to enslave someone who is truly conscious of the world around them, the decisions they make and the reality they choose. You can lock someone in a box and force them to do physical labor, but a truly awakened individual still has the capacity to be free in mind and spirit.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Ankh - 01-22-2012
(01-22-2012, 06:37 AM)yossarian Wrote: In addition, what's the difference between total service to others and being a slave?
I don't know if there exists "total service to others", because that would mean 100% STO? Is there such a thing in this density accomplished by third density beings? Besides that, I would say that the difference between somewhat total service to others and being a slave is an activation of the green center *and* union with the intelligent infinity.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Meerie - 01-23-2012
(01-23-2012, 02:00 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: The difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave is that a slave does so reluctantly and with a vengeful heart.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - yossarian - 03-09-2012
(01-23-2012, 02:57 AM)Meerie Wrote:(01-23-2012, 02:00 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: The difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave is that a slave does so reluctantly and with a vengeful heart.
So slaves who love their slavery are not enslaved? Have you heard of 'house negroes'? They were the black slaves who often loved their slavery and were totally identified with the slave-master. Malcolm X considered house negroes to be exhibiting the deepest form of enslavement, that of loving their slavery.
This definition by 3dmonkey also devalues the most challenging kind of forgiveness while overvaluing the kind of forgiveness associated with self-disrespect, self-alienation, self-abnegation, and self-hate.
I definitely cannot accept the definition. According to this definition, battered wives and stockholm syndrome victims are not enslaved, and their behaviour should in fact be encouraged and seen as a good thing.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - 3DMonkey - 03-09-2012
I'm a fan of Malcolm X. He had an agenda and needed a certain mentality from listeners to achieve it. The acceptance mentality of what he called a house slave did not suit his ends. He wanted complete separation. I respect him because what he really desired was to reset the clock and form a society that "coulda been if..."
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - godwide_void - 03-09-2012
I do not believe the notion that being of STO would necessarily beget potentially falling into slavery and being at the mercy of others. Ra stated that it is within our Free Will to peacefully resist and allow that which has no place in our life and is in no way conducive to our path to fall away as opposed to being overcome.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Ali Quadir - 03-09-2012
Being in service to others is giving others what they need, not necessarily what they want. They may want a slave, but it's very unlikely that they actually need one
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Steppingfeet - 03-09-2012
(01-22-2012, 06:37 AM)yossarian Wrote: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave?
I agree with Diana and others who made the response to this question pivot on choice.
The entity who turns the cheek does so, ideally, from a place of their own power, and consciously chooses not to engage in reciprocity or seek justice.
Whereas the entity who is made a slave does not make the choice, at least on a conscious level. The recipient of slavery has in probably all cases been the subject of free-will violation.
The one who turns the cheek seeks to preserve the free will of the other, and perhaps redeem the other through love/acceptance.
(01-22-2012, 06:37 AM)yossarian Wrote: In addition, what's the difference between total service to others and being a slave?
What's their similarity? Why ask the question? I ask. : )
L/L, GLB
PS: Ankh, I think one can achieve a pure total-ness in service to others.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Shin'Ar - 03-09-2012
What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave?
Choice!
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Oceania - 03-10-2012
a sore cheek.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - 3DMonkey - 03-10-2012
(03-09-2012, 07:31 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote:(01-22-2012, 06:37 AM)yossarian Wrote: In addition, what's the difference between total service to others and being a slave?
What's their similarity? Why ask the question? I ask. : )
I think it is common to feel like a slave no matter what the circumstances are. There really is no end to the things we can twist and spin to consider ourself a slave to. So, we ask the question to try to justify how we are not a slave or to reinforce that we are a slave. The answer, like everyone has said, is choice. If I see myself as a slave, I choose to see my world as oppressed, controlled, and limited. If I see myself as an equal individual among others, I choose to be interdependent and roll with the punches.
The difference is about how you look at it. Polarizing thought. Filtering perspectives. Taking in what's going on and directing it one of two ways.
"thank you sir, may I have another? It is a pleasure being slapped by you. I know you will grow to the love/light as all do"
Or
"you cruel bastard, you are what makes this world a horrible place. I despise you and vow to slit your throat the first chance I get"
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Ankh - 03-10-2012
(03-09-2012, 07:31 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: PS: Ankh, I think one can achieve a pure total-ness in service to others.
R'U sure? What if that other self wants you to kill a beloved one?
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Shin'Ar - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 10:47 AM)Ankh Wrote:(03-09-2012, 07:31 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: PS: Ankh, I think one can achieve a pure total-ness in service to others.
R'U sure? What if that other self wants you to kill a beloved one?
Yes Monkey, are you not simplifying the state of slavery? What about the extremes where it is so horrific that one would be in denial to tell themselves it is okay while at the same time they are being horribly abused in that slavery?
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - 3DMonkey - 03-10-2012
[/quote]
(03-10-2012, 10:49 AM)ShinAr Wrote: Yes Monkey, are you not simplifying the state of slavery?
Words will make anything sound simple. For instance, "contact intelligent energy"- verrrry simplified word choice. The actual catalyst of slavery is extremely complicated, and the differences posed in the original question of this thread only address one facet of these complications, that is the perspective of self. The choice to be made is a choice for every second of time.
(03-10-2012, 10:49 AM)ShinAr Wrote: What about the extremes where it is so horrific that one would be in denial to tell themselves it is okay while at the same time they are being horribly abused in that slavery?
What is extreme? I can take my current situation and delude myself into thinking that I am being controlled, manipulated, deceived, and oppressed while my neighbor is delightfully happy with the exact same situation.
Remember, if you want to concentrate on horrors of abuse, and go down that rabbit hole, that is a choice of polarity in and of itself.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Shin'Ar - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 12:18 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: What is extreme? I can take my current situation and delude myself into thinking that I am being controlled, manipulated, deceived, and oppressed while my neighbor is delightfully happy with the exact same situation.
What neighbor would find delight in being raped or mutilated? That is extreme. I think you are evading the fact that many on the STS path are on a path which can lead to such extremity and that is the danger of it. You can't deny that these extremes are not beneficial to humanity and can certainly not be considered as expressions of love in any way.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - 3DMonkey - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 12:44 PM)ShinAr Wrote:(03-10-2012, 12:18 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: What is extreme? I can take my current situation and delude myself into thinking that I am being controlled, manipulated, deceived, and oppressed while my neighbor is delightfully happy with the exact same situation.
What neighbor would find delight in being raped or mutilated? That is extreme. I think you are evading the fact that many on the STS path are on a path which can lead to such extremity and that is the danger of it. You can't deny that these extremes are not beneficial to humanity and can certainly not be considered as expressions of love in any way.
We are only discussing the mentality of said individuals.
"19.19 Questioner: Then it would seem that there is a relationship between what we perceive as a physical phenomenon, say the electrical phenomenon, and the phenomenon of consciousness in that they, having stemmed from the One Creator, are practically identical but have different actions. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. Again we oversimplify to answer your query.
The physical complex alone is created of many, many energy or electromagnetic fields interacting due to intelligent energy, the mental configurations or distortions of each complex further adding fields of electromagnetic energy and distorting the physical complex patterns of energy, the spiritual aspect serving as a further complexity of fields which is of itself perfect but which can be realized in many distorted and unintegrated ways by the mind and body complexes of energy fields.
Thus, instead of one, shall we say, magnet with one polarity you have in the body/mind/spirit complex one basic polarity expressed in what you would call violet-ray energy, the sum of the energy fields, but which is affected by thought of all kinds generated by the mind complex, by distortions of the body complex, and by the numerous relationships between the microcosm which is the entity and the macrocosm in many forms which you may represent by viewing the stars, as you call them, each with a contributing energy ray which enters the electromagnetic web of the entity due to its individual distortions."
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Shin'Ar - 03-10-2012
Okay I liked it better when you were talking about Oreo cookies and icing.
I dont know if the above is a quote from the Ra material or your take on it.
Basically what it states is that our individual thought processes affect the distortion of our individual fields of consciousness, which is the micrcosm and the macrocosm expressed in one entity.
However I do not see how that is applied as a means of defending your position on STS or answering my question about our need to desicern extremity when discerning STS.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - 3DMonkey - 03-10-2012
I haven't expressed an opinion on that
I've only said that what we think is what we think.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Shin'Ar - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 02:17 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: I haven't expressed an opinion on that
I've only said that what we think is what we think.
But I asked you where you draw the line on the STS path between what you would accept as seeing the Creator in the free will of another, the need to avoid infirnging on their free will, and what you would consider so extreme that you would now consider the STS path to be beyond your acceptance of tolerance?
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - 3DMonkey - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 02:22 PM)ShinAr Wrote:(03-10-2012, 02:17 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: I haven't expressed an opinion on that
I've only said that what we think is what we think.
But I asked you where you draw the line on the STS path between what you would accept as seeing the Creator in the free will of another, the need to avoid infirnging on their free will, and what you would consider so extreme that you would now consider the STS path to be beyond your acceptance of tolerance?
You are basically asking me at what point would I flip from an STO mentality into an STS mentality. That line in new every second. I'm sure I would cross it at some point.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Shin'Ar - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 02:47 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:(03-10-2012, 02:22 PM)ShinAr Wrote:(03-10-2012, 02:17 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: I haven't expressed an opinion on that
I've only said that what we think is what we think.
But I asked you where you draw the line on the STS path between what you would accept as seeing the Creator in the free will of another, the need to avoid infirnging on their free will, and what you would consider so extreme that you would now consider the STS path to be beyond your acceptance of tolerance?
You are basically asking me at what point would I flip from an STO mentality into an STS mentality. That line in new every second. I'm sure I would cross it at some point.
So in this second here and now, if you confronted a rapist attacking a woman in an alley, would you see yourself in him? would you see the Creator in him? would you allow him to contiue becasue you would not want to infringe upon his free will?
Basically, in that second of time would you agree that STS would not be a tolerable path to follow?
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - 3DMonkey - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 02:51 PM)ShinAr Wrote:(03-10-2012, 02:47 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:(03-10-2012, 02:22 PM)ShinAr Wrote:(03-10-2012, 02:17 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: I haven't expressed an opinion on that
I've only said that what we think is what we think.
But I asked you where you draw the line on the STS path between what you would accept as seeing the Creator in the free will of another, the need to avoid infirnging on their free will, and what you would consider so extreme that you would now consider the STS path to be beyond your acceptance of tolerance?
You are basically asking me at what point would I flip from an STO mentality into an STS mentality. That line in new every second. I'm sure I would cross it at some point.
So in this second here and now, if you confronted a rapist attacking a woman in an alley, would you see yourself in him? would you see the Creator in him? would you allow him to contiue becasue you would not want to infringe upon his free will?
Basically, in that second of time would you agree that STS would not be a tolerable path to follow?
hahahaha. I've been in this conversation before.
You are asking if I would do something. Yes I would do something.
BUT
You are suggesting that doing something would be STO. I disagree. I believe doing something would be STS, but I would probably "cross the line" in order to do something.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Shin'Ar - 03-10-2012
No you are misunderstanding my question. That's alright though, it is a difficult topic to grasp for many. Thanks for your time.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - 3DMonkey - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 03:35 PM)ShinAr Wrote: No you are misunderstanding my question. That's alright though, it is a difficult topic to grasp for many. Thanks for your time.
i'm not sure you are addressing the question with the idea that STS/STO is within you and not the outer world.
RE: What's the difference between turning the other cheek and being a slave? - Ankh - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 03:35 PM)ShinAr Wrote: No you are misunderstanding my question. That's alright though, it is a difficult topic to grasp for many. Thanks for your time.
I don't think that 3DM misunderstanding anything. He really has been in this discussion before. Extensively. Take a look, Shin'Ar:
Acceptance and Will
(This is just so funny)