+- Bring4th (https://www.bring4th.org/forums)
+-- Forum: Bring4th Community (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=16)
+--- Forum: Olio (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Suicide and the need to reincarnate for further 3rd density lessons... (/showthread.php?tid=19626)
Suicide and the need to reincarnate for further 3rd density lessons... - aWanderer91 - 12-20-2021
Hi all,
I'm sorry if this posts feels morbid, however I feel it's a topic many of us may of possibly been affected by.
I lost both my nan and grandad to suicide, my nan due mental illness at a fairly young age for an adult and my grandad at the age of 86 as he was diagnosed with dementia, and he refused to place the so called burden upon us as family members to look after him or spend his money going into a old people's home.
I know my nan struggled greatly without the mental capacity to understand the implications her death would have upon my mother and aunty. This I believe would require her to incarnate to repeat her lessons.
My grandad on the other hand, I feel he took into account that it would be a service on his part to not be a burden to family members, or spend his money being looked after in an old people's home when it could be better to leave this planetary sphere while his money was inherited by the next generation.
Ra says that death by suicide requires much healing and the need for further 3rd density incarnations to learn the lessons originally pre-programmed before suicide.
My grandad was an absolute sincere service to others being, it was his job as a social worker for many years and he cared enormously about the planet. Making every effort to educate where he could and contribute to charity in a palpable and wise way.
Now my questions are, do you think suicide is ever ok in the grand scheme of the infinite creation? Do those of Q'uo ever elaborate on what Ra originally said? It seems unfair that my grandad could do so much which maybe made him viable for harvest, only to right at the end of his incarnation to scupper his chances as his mind degraded and became unviable for logical living. Also, say if my nan was a wanderer (completely hypothetical), is there some kind of leeway in place for a wanderer having no chance to adjust to the planetary vibrations and being able to return home upon death?
I would really appreciate your honest thoughts on this
thank you for reading!
RE: Suicide and the need to reincarnate for further 3rd density lessons... - Patrick - 12-20-2021
Ra had no choice to generalise all the time. So I think that when you interpret what Ra said in a particular personal context, arriving at such conclusions as you did is perfectly fine.
https://www.llresearch.org/channeling/1987/0621 Q`uo Wrote:...it comes to me that perhaps Jesus the Christ was one example when he turned towards Jerusalem of a man who basically committed suicide—he knew he was in trouble when he went there, I mean, he was telling people he was going to die and be raised in three days before he ever went there. And he knew all that was going to happen and it still happened to him, but he thought that he could save other people by it. Is that the kind of suicide that would perhaps qualify for being in balance?
I am Q’uo, and this is correct, my sister, for the taking of one’s life or the laying down of one’s life for the benefit of others is an action which partakes of that path which is and that path reflects the desire to give of the self in a manner which is of service to others, even if the giving requires that all which one has be given. Thus, one finds within your culture many instances in which the life is given for others and the giving may take a great portion of the incarnation, such as the sacrifices which many of the parents, as you call them, make for the offspring over a great portion of the incarnational experience. Or the giving may be of a moment’s inspiration, such as when one of the young soldiers, as you call them, throws itself in harm’s way in order that a comrade may survive.
RE: Suicide and the need to reincarnate for further 3rd density lessons... - Scionagon - 12-20-2021
Personally, I think it's based on intention. If you're capable of killing yourself with absolutely no regrets, and are able to free yourself from all worldly guilts, desires, and attachments, then I imagine the transition would go as smoothly as "regular" death. Although, I'd say that at least 99% of suicides are regretful. If you've ever read any stories about suicide survivors, you'll know that the instant they do it, they'll immediately change their mind because they realize just how transient their "problem" really was.
But, I don't see a reason to "punish" anybody who's lived such a virtuous life, especially at such an old age when there's little left to be taught/learned-from (especially with that horrific condition, which scares me as well). If you didn't know, Don Elkins himself (the questioner in the Law of One books) commit suicide not long after the books were published. I don't see him needing to repeat 3-dimensionality based on his absurd level of knowledge, and I'm sure your grandfather won't need to either.
https://www.lawofone.info/Epilogue
As for your nan, well, mental illness is something that confuses me too. I personally believe that some people may choose to have certain mental disabilities before their incarnation, in order to act as a sort of catalyst for other people (and themselves) towards unconditional love. That, and some people are being negatively/positively influenced by the coming changes to this world.
https://www.lawofone.info/s/40#15
There's not much to answer without personal beliefs, because I've never seen a definitive answer to the suicide question. But either way, I'm sure that both of them are right where they feel they belong, just like the rest of us.
RE: Suicide and the need to reincarnate for further 3rd density lessons... - aWanderer91 - 12-20-2021
(12-20-2021, 04:10 PM)Patrick Wrote: Ra had no choice to generalise all the time. So I think that when you interpret what Ra said in a particular personal context, arriving at such conclusions as you did is perfectly fine.
https://www.llresearch.org/channeling/1987/0621 Q`uo Wrote:...it comes to me that perhaps Jesus the Christ was one example when he turned towards Jerusalem of a man who basically committed suicide—he knew he was in trouble when he went there, I mean, he was telling people he was going to die and be raised in three days before he ever went there. And he knew all that was going to happen and it still happened to him, but he thought that he could save other people by it. Is that the kind of suicide that would perhaps qualify for being in balance?
I am Q’uo, and this is correct, my sister, for the taking of one’s life or the laying down of one’s life for the benefit of others is an action which partakes of that path which is and that path reflects the desire to give of the self in a manner which is of service to others, even if the giving requires that all which one has be given. Thus, one finds within your culture many instances in which the life is given for others and the giving may take a great portion of the incarnation, such as the sacrifices which many of the parents, as you call them, make for the offspring over a great portion of the incarnational experience. Or the giving may be of a moment’s inspiration, such as when one of the young soldiers, as you call them, throws itself in harm’s way in order that a comrade may survive.
Thank you Patrick
I was deeply interested in what those of Q'uo had said about it, this was extremely helpful.
My grandad made many sacrifices and devoted his life to alleviating as many of my mother's problems as he could, as she suffered with mental illness as well as my grandmother.
He was truly remarkable as a service to others being, wanting no clout or thanks for what he accomplished.
Your post has hinted that he served just fine!
RE: Suicide and the need to reincarnate for further 3rd density lessons... - Diana - 12-20-2021
(12-20-2021, 02:16 PM)aWanderer91 Wrote: Now my questions are, do you think suicide is ever ok in the grand scheme of the infinite creation?
I think it is always okay. It is a choice someone makes. No one can know all the reasons or particulars of such a decision or even why a person incarnates, what their lessons will be, or where they have come from. If a person is very old, and is suffering (old age brings all sorts of challenges one can't imagine such as hearing and sight loss, aching body, brittle bones, nerve problems, and so on), taking one's life at that point doesn't necessarily mean anything we can think of. Maybe they finished what they came here to do, and are ready to leave without further ado, and further suffering isn't part of their agenda.
We all die (currently in 3-4D). People choose to exit in any number of ways—cancer, heart attack, accident, overdose, and so on. Suicide seems different because it is a completely conscious decision, as opposed to a subconscious decision to exit from an auto accident which seems random. People also slowly kill themselves with unhealthy food, smoking, and so on. So there is really no demarcation line, with suicide on one side and other types of dying on the other side.
It is always so sad. But my opinion is to honor the person's choice, and not buy into judgments about it. As for the possibility of needing healing, I imagine we will all need healing from being down here in the 3D trenches in one way or another.
RE: Suicide and the need to reincarnate for further 3rd density lessons... - aWanderer91 - 12-20-2021
(12-20-2021, 04:26 PM)Scionagon Wrote: Personally, I think it's based on intention. If you're capable of killing yourself with absolutely no regrets, and are able to free yourself from all worldly guilts, desires, and attachments, then I imagine the transition would go as smoothly as "regular" death. Although, I'd say that at least 99% of suicides are regretful. If you've ever read any stories about suicide survivors, you'll know that the instant they do it, they'll immediately change their mind because they realize just how transient their "problem" really was.
But, I don't see a reason to "punish" anybody who's lived such a virtuous life, especially at such an old age when there's little left to be taught/learned-from (especially with that horrific condition, which scares me as well). If you didn't know, Don Elkins himself (the questioner in the Law of One books) commit suicide not long after the books were published. I don't see him needing to repeat 3-dimensionality based on his absurd level of knowledge, and I'm sure your grandfather won't need to either.
https://www.lawofone.info/Epilogue
As for your nan, well, mental illness is something that confuses me too. I personally believe that some people may choose to have certain mental disabilities before their incarnation, in order to act as a sort of catalyst for other people (and themselves) towards unconditional love. That, and some people are being negatively/positively influenced by the coming changes to this world.
https://www.lawofone.info/s/40#15
There's not much to answer without personal beliefs, because I've never seen a definitive answer to the suicide question. But either way, I'm sure that both of them are right where they feel they belong, just like the rest of us.
Hi Scionagon,
Your thoughts that remaining detached while leaving the physical body would make the transition smooth are very appropriate, as my grandad practiced Buddhism and remained detached from worldly issues. He was very intent on taking his life, not to be too dark but he hung himself and the first time he tried the rope snapped, he then found another more stronger rope and made do this time round. This was typical of his personality in a light-hearted humorous way. He was always sure of himself whenever he made a decision and always gave it much thought.
I was aware of Don's situation and figured the same as you, he had clearly had enough and served with the finest of his abilities, what more was there to do. These beings deserve to depart of their own free will but of course the creators laws are what goes so I wanted to dive deeper into people's thoughts on the subject.
Mental illness is truly problematic, I'm sure my nan didn't plan her suicide as catalyst, but the mental illness she suffered from was great catalyst for my mother.
As you say, both of my grandparents are right where they belong ultimately!
RE: Suicide and the need to reincarnate for further 3rd density lessons... - aWanderer91 - 12-20-2021
(12-20-2021, 06:32 PM)Diana Wrote:(12-20-2021, 02:16 PM)aWanderer91 Wrote: Now my questions are, do you think suicide is ever ok in the grand scheme of the infinite creation?
I think it is always okay. It is a choice someone makes. No one can know all the reasons or particulars of such a decision or even why a person incarnates, what their lessons will be, or where they have come from. If a person is very old, and is suffering (old age brings all sorts of challenges one can't imagine such as hearing and sight loss, aching body, brittle bones, nerve problems, and so on), taking one's life at that point doesn't necessarily mean anything we can think of. Maybe they finished what they came here to do, and are ready to leave without further ado, and further suffering isn't part of their agenda.
We all die (currently in 3-4D). People choose to exit in any number of ways—cancer, heart attack, accident, overdose, and so on. Suicide seems different because it is a completely conscious decision, as opposed to a subconscious decision to exit from an auto accident which seems random. People also slowly kill themselves with unhealthy food, smoking, and so on. So there is really no demarcation line, with suicide on one side and other types of dying on the other side.
It is always so sad. But my opinion is to honor the person's choice, and not buy into judgments about it. As for the possibility of needing healing, I imagine we will all need healing from being down here in the 3D trenches in one way or another.
Very insightful and down to earth thoughts there Diana
thank you!They feel similar to the string of thoughts I had once I posted this, that suicide doesn't seem that much different to the other ways of passing away 3rd density beings experience, and a natural death seems so rare on earth.
They're was a rightness and a sense of perfection to my grandfathers passing away that one rarely feels when losing someone suicide. At 86 and a lifetimes worth of service, I figured it was his honour and duty to depart of his own accord.
RE: Suicide and the need to reincarnate for further 3rd density lessons... - MonadicSpectrum - 12-21-2021
Thanks for sharing your experiences with us. I agree with what all those said before in this thread. I especially appreciated Diana's point about how many of us are slowly killing ourselves already with poor health decisions. We all have much to learn.
I just want to add that I believe everyone is always exactly where they need to be to optimize their growth and the growth of the One Infinite Creator whether they repeat third density lessons or not. One cannot learn faster than one is capable of learning, and I don't believe any of us who are veiled are capable of accurately judging another being's progress regardless of their apparent actions. I also think we all would prefer a world which does not cause the desire for suicide which we will hopefully learn to create one day, but I do believe even now all is truly well despite appearances.
https://youtu.be/thotoEXt42E
RE: Suicide and the need to reincarnate for further 3rd density lessons... - aWanderer91 - 12-21-2021
(12-21-2021, 01:49 PM)MonadicSpectrum Wrote: Thanks for sharing your experiences with us. I agree with what all those said before in this thread. I especially appreciated Diana's point about how many of us are slowly killing ourselves already with poor health decisions. We all have much to learn.
I just want to add that I believe everyone is always exactly where they need to be to optimize their growth and the growth of the One Infinite Creator whether they repeat third density lessons or not. One cannot learn faster than one is capable of learning, and I don't believe any of us who are veiled are capable of accurately judging another being's progress regardless of their apparent actions. I also think we all would prefer a world which does not cause the desire for suicide which we will hopefully learn to create one day, but I do believe even now all is truly well despite appearances.
https://youtu.be/thotoEXt42E
Thank you for your reply Monadicspectrum
All is well, such simple but reassuring words to hear.
Thanks for the beautiful song too, very heart warming!