(06-21-2021, 10:00 AM)Patrick Wrote: Personally, I like to change my mind often. So if we put people into groups then we are not allowing that the person can change their mind and so their grouping from one moment to another.

It's just easier not to use any labels or groupings.

(06-21-2021, 10:00 AM)Patrick Wrote: I think the split is mostly due to people wanting to put labels on things/people and then sort/order those labels.

When we see someone aligning with an idea, we put that person in this or that group. But we should not. Each of us we all have unique perspectives and we cannot be put into groups or have labels put on us.

Personally, I like to change my mind often. So if we put people into groups then we are not allowing that the person can change their mind and so their grouping from one moment to another.

It's just easier not to use any labels or groupings.

(06-21-2021, 09:22 AM)tadeus Wrote: But live and spirituality must be integrated to get in harmony.

(06-22-2021, 03:34 AM)tadeus Wrote: But this is not the main point of this thread.

The main point is the sentence

(06-21-2021, 09:22 AM)tadeus Wrote: But live and spirituality must be integrated to get in harmony.

This is not done by only stopping labelling people.

(06-22-2021, 06:59 AM)Patrick Wrote: What I do is ponder all the little things that happens in everyday life. Spirituality not applied to everyday living is worthless.

At the beginning of my journey I thought that applying the Law of One resulted in automatic harmony. But the issue is that there is no Law of One, there is only understandings of the Law of One. These understandings are often not aligned enough to allow automatic harmony.

(06-23-2021, 06:27 AM)tadeus Wrote: ...The next development is to (re)integrate spirituality and the intellect in a harmonic way...

Quote:...As a matter of fact, over the past few decades evidence has been accumulating in foundations of physics, neuroscience and analytic philosophy that materialism is false...

(06-23-2021, 09:24 AM)Patrick Wrote: I see this happening all over the place right now. We really are getting there.

(06-23-2021, 09:24 AM)Patrick Wrote: Many scientists are awakening and working towards that goal. An example here: https://www.essentiafoundation.org/about/

Quote:...As a matter of fact, over the past few decades evidence has been accumulating in foundations of physics, neuroscience and analytic philosophy that materialism is false...

(06-24-2021, 03:08 AM)tadeus Wrote: ...Now we have the problem that the world is completely controlled by military and you will not give them stuff that can be used for more control and destruction...

(06-24-2021, 07:27 AM)Patrick Wrote: The world I live in is not controlled, at least not in the way I personally experience it. My intentions are to share my perspective until the whole world sees that it is free to reclaim its freedom anytime it so wishes. Not by fighting or rejecting any societal structures, but simply by waking up and changing our perspective and so changing the choices that we collectively make.

The world IS freeing itself right this moment. If you want to you will see it as well. Everything is going much better than anyone could have expected.

(06-24-2021, 07:27 AM)Patrick Wrote: The world I live in is not controlled, at least not in the way I personally experience it. My intentions are to share my perspective until the whole world sees that it is free to reclaim its freedom anytime it so wishes. Not by fighting or rejecting any societal structures, but simply by waking up and changing our perspective and so changing the choices that we collectively make.

(06-24-2021, 10:48 AM)Diana Wrote: I agree that perspective and attitude change everything.

But may I ask how you view something like taxes? And here, could you put yourself in my place as an American? The IRS makes us pay taxes which funds wars, and all manner of corruption within the government. I have a problem dealing with this, as I can't get away with not paying taxes unless I want to be an activist and go to jail, and on the other hand I help to fund things I don't like (to understate the matter), such as the military. I'm not talking about adding what I like into how I spend my energy and money, but in just dealing with this situation where I find myself between a rock and a hard place. What I do is just comply as minimally as possible, but that seems so weak and lame.

I could move to another country, but I am pretty sure no matter where I go there will be something like this to deal with.

(06-24-2021, 10:48 AM)Diana Wrote:

(06-24-2021, 07:27 AM)Patrick Wrote: The world I live in is not controlled, at least not in the way I personally experience it. My intentions are to share my perspective until the whole world sees that it is free to reclaim its freedom anytime it so wishes. Not by fighting or rejecting any societal structures, but simply by waking up and changing our perspective and so changing the choices that we collectively make.

I agree that perspective and attitude change everything.

But may I ask how you view something like taxes? And here, could you put yourself in my place as an American? The IRS makes us pay taxes which funds wars, and all manner of corruption within the government. I have a problem dealing with this, as I can't get away with not paying taxes unless I want to be an activist and go to jail, and on the other hand I help to fund things I don't like (to understate the matter), such as the military. I'm not talking about adding what I like into how I spend my energy and money, but in just dealing with this situation where I find myself between a rock and a hard place. What I do is just comply as minimally as possible, but that seems so weak and lame.

I could move to another country, but I am pretty sure no matter where I go there will be something like this to deal with.

(06-24-2021, 01:51 PM)Patrick Wrote: I feel free. I don't feel the controlling aspects of society. Not that it is not there, it's just not hampering me personally. I wish it was this way for all and I am sharing my opinion all around me on how I believe we could get there collectively.

Even if my government made it illegal for me to see my parents, or any relatives, for a year because of Covid, I could have disregarded that easily and just go and see them. I did not because my parents are fearful of this manufactured crisis. I don't care about wearing masks and stuff like that. Maybe if I were frustrated by all those rules I would feel more under control, but our perspective on things really has a big effect on how we experience all.

(06-25-2021, 04:45 AM)tadeus Wrote: Yes - what Diana and you describe is to focus on the spiritual part.
That's absolute senseful, but the other part should not be ignored totally.

(06-25-2021, 08:57 AM)pat19989 Wrote: However, once you have started down this path, i feel that there is no further use in analyzing their systems. It will only bring about anxiety, fear, and hatred (for me personally I guess, but I can't imagine someone being joyous about the dark nature of the elites around the world).

There is almost no use in trying to convince others of your perspective, as I have found this is near impossible. Once someone is ready to take the plunge in which their worldview is shattered, they will do it. The universe will take them their, and 9 times out of 10 you are not the catalyst to this realization for other people.

I initially got this thought that we need to organize against them, but I don't see that being a fruitful path either. I am beginning to believe that working on our spirit and raising the vibration of the world by the way we treat people, animals, and ourselves is the best course of action once you have come to the realization that a group of twisted humanists probably want all of us plebes to die.

I believe keeping the elites' plans out of my conscious almost completely is the healthiest way to deal with their efforts.

Quote:Now, those of you who have, as have members of this group, found your way to a rather complex body of information which has the potential to recast much of what you have learned in a context much broader than you had learned in your youth, you have the opportunity to share this broader perspective with those in your social complex that have not had such an opportunity, and that might be chafing against the limits of a more restricted perspective. It is tempting for those who have found a path which they have found to be useful in guiding them along the course of their evolutionary development to want to sally forth and to offer this good news to all who would listen. It is tempting, we say, and sometimes too much so, because in your eagerness to share, you risk violating the one precondition of all genuine or open-hearted sharing, which is the free will of others.

Now, to some extent, since you are incarnate, you have less need to be concerned about violating the free will of others within your range of experience than would we, simply because we are outside of the energy configuration that constitutes your social energy complex, and it would be a greater intrusion for us to offer specific recommendations about how you might proceed in your development than it would be for you to offer your fellow travelers your point of view in aiding them to sort through what you have quite well understood to be a confusing mass of possibilities.

(06-24-2021, 01:51 PM)Patrick Wrote: These things are there, but they are not in the way of my living. I share my opinion with those who will listen and I vote according to what I believe is best for all, but for everything else that is not within my sphere of influence I just let go and it seems "it" let go of me as well.

I feel free. I don't feel the controlling aspects of society. Not that it is not there, it's just not hampering me personally. I wish it was this way for all and I am sharing my opinion all around me on how I believe we could get there collectively.

Even if my government made it illegal for me to see my parents, or any relatives, for a year because of Covid, I could have disregarded that easily and just go and see them. I did not because my parents are fearful of this manufactured crisis. I don't care about wearing masks and stuff like that. Maybe if I were frustrated by all those rules I would feel more under control, but our perspective on things really has a big effect on how we experience all.

Regarding the USA, there were candidates that reached mainstream visibility that would have been able to help for real and if the people were ready to stop suffering they would vote for people like that. But it seems people whishes to see how deep the bottom of the barrel is before coming back up.

(06-26-2021, 03:25 AM)tadeus Wrote: What and when is something war?

What is killing (what are the circumstances)?

(06-26-2021, 12:52 PM)Diana Wrote: War between countries is what I was referring to, such as invasion of Iraq and the Viet Nam war. Where hundreds of thousands of people, both military and nonmilitary get needlessly killed or maimed, and that is to say nothing of the destruction to the environment and killing/maiming of other life forms.

(06-21-2021, 09:22 AM)tadeus Wrote: Here are the results of some thoughts, that has been crystallized some weeks ago.

Rudolf Steiner has identified thinking, feeling and willing as basic parts of the soul.

Studying and understanding the material of Ra and other channelings will inspire the feeling and willing in a direct way of our spiritual understanding of the universe.

But we have to do the same permanently in our incarnation as human beings, what is simple named as live.
You can read about the consequences here and here.
So what is happening?

Our thinking is captured in the world in a manifold way by media, politics, education and society.
This can cause an endless discussion on the point if there is really a free will left for the individuum.
The logical concluding is, that when thinking is restricted and "wrong thinking" and "wrong action" will be punished, the feeling will be mainly fear to do wrong things and there is really nearly no space for a free will.

You see that you can only be free in your thinking, feeling and willing in a spiritual matter within your head.
The boundary is already reached when you talk about your spiritual thinking in the public.

Our being is split into spirituality and live!
But live and spirituality must be integrated to get in harmony.
That's the reason why this two parts cannot be separated and why you have to get clear in all questions of live.

Certainly that's the reason for the overflowing discussion and split between the people here, where one group only wants to be assimilated in the society and the other group is heavily analyzing and thinking on every aspect of live.

What are your thoughts?

(07-12-2021, 04:43 PM)Ming the Merciful Wrote: Spirituality in life should be simple. Or, there is not a dividing line between Physicality and Spiritualism. A life should be lived with the awareness that the "Spiritual Nature" should take the priority position. We cannot go through life and say, at this moment I will be my "Physical Self", and the next moment, my "Spiritual Self". It does not work like that. If we are conscious in our every action, then we must remain in a Spiritual State. Spirituality is not a switch that you can turn on, or turn off. You are either Spiritual, (or you are not). It is true, we cannot be Spiritual all the time, and even if we can't there must be the awareness remaining in the background.

(07-13-2021, 04:25 AM)tadeus Wrote:

(07-12-2021, 04:43 PM)Ming the Merciful Wrote: Spirituality in life should be simple. Or, there is not a dividing line between Physicality and Spiritualism. A life should be lived with the awareness that the "Spiritual Nature" should take the priority position. We cannot go through life and say, at this moment I will be my "Physical Self", and the next moment, my "Spiritual Self". It does not work like that. If we are conscious in our every action, then we must remain in a Spiritual State. Spirituality is not a switch that you can turn on, or turn off. You are either Spiritual, (or you are not). It is true, we cannot be Spiritual all the time, and even if we can't there must be the awareness remaining in the background.

I understand what you want to say and agree.

Yes - spirituality should be simply part of the life.
But i have wirtten this thread because much is done to reach exactly the split i have described.
Our life has been alienated from spirituality.
So this alienation and the way it has been installed must be understand to come to an integration of spirituality into live.
It is not simply done by being spiritual in some moments and the rest of the live keeps ongoing as usual.
You must be able to break through the artificial limitations that suppress our spirituality.

(07-13-2021, 05:48 PM)Ming the Merciful Wrote: I think that most Westerners approach Meditation from the wrong perspective. What is suppression? It is not allowing your, (Natural), Spiritual Reality to become the normal part of daily life. The West is more bogged-down by Materialism that in the East. This is based on historical facts, because the West has always been more abundant Materialistically than the East, and that has become engrained in the culture and how it is interpreted. The same applies to the difference between Materialism and Spiritual Values. How do you separate yourself from Materialism? Once a person comprehends the values of living a more Spiritual life, everything falls into place naturally.

Then how does a person develop a more Spiritual life. Meditation does not have to be something that must be done daily. Every action can be achieved in a meditative state. The simple act of walking is the perfect example. Instead of walking somewhere with a "Cluttered Mind". Or, when walking allow yourself to go into Still Mind and stop thinking. Be aware of what is happening around you, (but), at the same time be silent. Silent Mind. It can be any action or nonaction. We are naturally Spiritual, except most people do not recognize it. We only alienate ourselves, because that is what the "I" wants. Do we control our Mind, or does it control us? I decide when I want to think. The "I", (Self-Consciousness or Self-Awareness), is more powerful than the Mind.

Q’uo Wrote:Group question: In 64.15, Ra said: “In observing the allopathic concept of the body complex as the machine, we may note the symptomology of a societal complex seemingly dedicated to the most intransigent desire for the distortions of distraction, anonymity, and sleep. This is the result rather than the cause of societal thinking upon your plane.”

Q’uo, our question today is: What is meant by “distraction, anonymity and sleep.”

Also, Ra said that our society’s dedication to the desire for distraction, anonymity and sleep is intransigent. Intransigent is defined as “unwilling or refusing to change one’s views or to agree about something.” Why is the desire for comfort, pleasure, sleep, distraction so strong and intransigent on this particular planet?

(Jim channeling)
...
However, for the great majority of the population of this planet, there has been the inability to focus the inner energies of inspiration and intuition, those basic qualities brought into the incarnation from those areas where pre-incarnative choices are made, hopes are built up, and dedication is made. And once again the veil of forgetting is drawn as these hopes and dreams and inspirations must find a way to be realized within the third density illusion—this heavy, dense, chemical illusion which seems to shade and shadow so much of what you see and feel.

And when these entities, the great majority of the population, have continued upon the path of the mundane, shall we say—the culture of accepted norms, the ways to become an accepted member of the society—this path usually leads to those qualities of anonymity, of sleep, and of distraction, for as this pattern of inability to choose one path or another repeats itself, there is less and less opportunity and possibility for such entities to make positive progress upon their path, for the opportunity becomes less and less as it is exercised less and less. In your holy works it is said “To him who has, more shall be given; to him who has not, even that which he has shall be taken away.”[2] This is an illustration of this principle; it is a kind of inertia, a, if you will, backwards momentum, that inhibits the ability of entities to become conscious of who they are, of why they are here, of what they seek, of how to do anything that resembles traveling a spiritual journey.

There are so many other journeys that are available as choices that are easier to make: to seek ambition, to seek money, to seek fame, to seek position, to seek acceptance—this is what your cultures teach, this is what is valued, this is what is desired, and this is what is practiced. It is no wonder that those who do find themselves consciously aware of the process of spiritual evolution are frustrated when they see so many about them that do not wish to become conscious, that do not wish to become aware of what it is that they are here for, why they are here.

These questions [pertaining to spiritual evolution] are unnerving and perplexing, and are, if ever considered at all, pushed aside, for they make one uncomfortable when one wishes comfort. The spiritual journey, my friends, is not always comfortable. You know this well. It will make a difficult time for you at various times, for it is necessary from time to time to pass the challenge, to engage in the initiation, shall we say, to graduate from one level to another within your own third density that marks your progress upon your conscious spiritual journey. There are times when catalyst is misapplied, misperceived, missed at all perhaps and not used. When this happens, there is no end to catalyst; it will come again and again and again. Thus, the catalyst must be processed in some fashion else one tends to become as others—numb and oblivious and perhaps even seeking recluse and reclusion from such a journey.

Your path within the third density illusion is the most difficult path that you shall ever travel for only the third density illusion has the veil of forgetting. Only in this illusion is it not completely apparent at all times that you are part of the One Infinite Creator. Because this veil is so thick and so prevalent, it offers you the opportunity to make great progress if you are able, consciously, to penetrate any portion of this veil; it takes effort, it takes conscious effort, it takes inspiration and motivation, it takes persistence.

(07-14-2021, 03:40 AM)tadeus Wrote:

(07-13-2021, 05:48 PM)Ming the Merciful Wrote: I think that most Westerners approach Meditation from the wrong perspective. What is suppression? It is not allowing your, (Natural), Spiritual Reality to become the normal part of daily life. The West is more bogged-down by Materialism that in the East. This is based on historical facts, because the West has always been more abundant Materialistically than the East, and that has become engrained in the culture and how it is interpreted. The same applies to the difference between Materialism and Spiritual Values. How do you separate yourself from Materialism? Once a person comprehends the values of living a more Spiritual life, everything falls into place naturally.

Then how does a person develop a more Spiritual life. Meditation does not have to be something that must be done daily. Every action can be achieved in a meditative state. The simple act of walking is the perfect example. Instead of walking somewhere with a "Cluttered Mind". Or, when walking allow yourself to go into Still Mind and stop thinking. Be aware of what is happening around you, (but), at the same time be silent. Silent Mind. It can be any action or nonaction. We are naturally Spiritual, except most people do not recognize it. We only alienate ourselves, because that is what the "I" wants. Do we control our Mind, or does it control us? I decide when I want to think. The "I", (Self-Consciousness or Self-Awareness), is more powerful than the Mind.

Again i fully agree.

But it is not done with separation from materialism - you must separate from the complete way of a "actual normal life".
That's only possible when you are aware of the installed and accepted mechanisms of this life.

January 2, 2016, Saturday Meditation

Q’uo Wrote:Group question: In 64.15, Ra said: “In observing the allopathic concept of the body complex as the machine, we may note the symptomology of a societal complex seemingly dedicated to the most intransigent desire for the distortions of distraction, anonymity, and sleep. This is the result rather than the cause of societal thinking upon your plane.”

Q’uo, our question today is: What is meant by “distraction, anonymity and sleep.”

Also, Ra said that our society’s dedication to the desire for distraction, anonymity and sleep is intransigent. Intransigent is defined as “unwilling or refusing to change one’s views or to agree about something.” Why is the desire for comfort, pleasure, sleep, distraction so strong and intransigent on this particular planet?

(Jim channeling)
...
However, for the great majority of the population of this planet, there has been the inability to focus the inner energies of inspiration and intuition, those basic qualities brought into the incarnation from those areas where pre-incarnative choices are made, hopes are built up, and dedication is made. And once again the veil of forgetting is drawn as these hopes and dreams and inspirations must find a way to be realized within the third density illusion—this heavy, dense, chemical illusion which seems to shade and shadow so much of what you see and feel.

And when these entities, the great majority of the population, have continued upon the path of the mundane, shall we say—the culture of accepted norms, the ways to become an accepted member of the society—this path usually leads to those qualities of anonymity, of sleep, and of distraction, for as this pattern of inability to choose one path or another repeats itself, there is less and less opportunity and possibility for such entities to make positive progress upon their path, for the opportunity becomes less and less as it is exercised less and less. In your holy works it is said “To him who has, more shall be given; to him who has not, even that which he has shall be taken away.”[2] This is an illustration of this principle; it is a kind of inertia, a, if you will, backwards momentum, that inhibits the ability of entities to become conscious of who they are, of why they are here, of what they seek, of how to do anything that resembles traveling a spiritual journey.

There are so many other journeys that are available as choices that are easier to make: to seek ambition, to seek money, to seek fame, to seek position, to seek acceptance—this is what your cultures teach, this is what is valued, this is what is desired, and this is what is practiced. It is no wonder that those who do find themselves consciously aware of the process of spiritual evolution are frustrated when they see so many about them that do not wish to become conscious, that do not wish to become aware of what it is that they are here for, why they are here.

These questions [pertaining to spiritual evolution] are unnerving and perplexing, and are, if ever considered at all, pushed aside, for they make one uncomfortable when one wishes comfort. The spiritual journey, my friends, is not always comfortable. You know this well. It will make a difficult time for you at various times, for it is necessary from time to time to pass the challenge, to engage in the initiation, shall we say, to graduate from one level to another within your own third density that marks your progress upon your conscious spiritual journey. There are times when catalyst is misapplied, misperceived, missed at all perhaps and not used. When this happens, there is no end to catalyst; it will come again and again and again. Thus, the catalyst must be processed in some fashion else one tends to become as others—numb and oblivious and perhaps even seeking recluse and reclusion from such a journey.

Your path within the third density illusion is the most difficult path that you shall ever travel for only the third density illusion has the veil of forgetting. Only in this illusion is it not completely apparent at all times that you are part of the One Infinite Creator. Because this veil is so thick and so prevalent, it offers you the opportunity to make great progress if you are able, consciously, to penetrate any portion of this veil; it takes effort, it takes conscious effort, it takes inspiration and motivation, it takes persistence.