+- Bring4th (https://www.bring4th.org/forums)
+-- Forum: Bring4th Studies (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Spiritual Development & Metaphysical Matters (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' (/showthread.php?tid=14801)
Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - sjel - 08-25-2017
Quote:Q: Can it happen that the mind is clear and quiet and yet no reflection appears?
M: There is destiny to consider. The unconscious is in the grip of destiny; it is destiny, in fact. One may have to wait. But however heavy may be the hand of destiny, it can be lifted by patience and self-control. Integrity and purity remove the obstacles and the vision of reality appears in the mind.
Okay. So even though destiny is the foundation of our short trek through unconsciousness, we can lift the veil through intense dedication. However:
Quote:M: The urge to find oneself is a sign that you are getting ready. The impulse always comes from within. Unless your time has come, you will have neither the desire nor the strength to go for self-enquiry whole-heartedly.
So the readiness of the individual for enlightenment is up to... what? To whom? The Individual seems to play only a periphery role in determining its rate of progress toward perfection. Some infinite source is the inevitable motivation to dive into the Self - not the Individual.
So basically, my lack of motivation to single-mindedly pursue enlightenment is because I am not ready? Even my genuine pursuits are fruitless because they are not single-minded! It almost seems like to be enlightened, one must already be enlightened.
Another befuddling quote:
Quote:Q: How am I to go beyond?
M: You know it already; do it.
Q: That's what you say. I know nothing about it.
M: Yet I repeat -- you know it. Do it. Go beyond, back to your normal, natural, supreme state.
Q: I'm puzzled.
M: A speck in the eye makes you think you are blind. Wash it out and look.
Q: I do look! I see only darkness.
M: Remove the speck and your eyes will be flooded with light. The light is there -- waiting. The eyes are there -- ready. The darkness you see is but the shadow of the tiny speck. Get rid of it and come back to your natural state.
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - AnthroHeart - 08-25-2017
There was the story of a monk who kept trying to become enlightened so he could join a group of monks who were enlightened.
One day he got fed up and said "I will never be enlightened." And just then became enlightened.
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - anagogy - 08-25-2017
(08-25-2017, 02:59 PM)sjel Wrote:Quote:Q: Can it happen that the mind is clear and quiet and yet no reflection appears?
M: There is destiny to consider. The unconscious is in the grip of destiny; it is destiny, in fact. One may have to wait. But however heavy may be the hand of destiny, it can be lifted by patience and self-control. Integrity and purity remove the obstacles and the vision of reality appears in the mind.
Okay. So even though destiny is the foundation of our short trek through unconsciousness, we can lift the veil through intense dedication.
The spirit, which is your true nature, is beyond the mechanical momentum of time. It exists in the eternal present. When you find the heart of your being, you are beyond the grip of momentum, which we might call "karma" (the natural balancing act of consciousness). It is like the eye of the hurricane. Find the peace there. Be still and observe. Become the witness.
(08-25-2017, 02:59 PM)sjel Wrote:Quote:M: The urge to find oneself is a sign that you are getting ready. The impulse always comes from within. Unless your time has come, you will have neither the desire nor the strength to go for self-enquiry whole-heartedly.
So the readiness of the individual for enlightenment is up to... what? To whom? The Individual seems to play only a periphery role in determining its rate of progress toward perfection. Some infinite source is the inevitable motivation to dive into the Self - not the Individual.
So basically, my lack of motivation to single-mindedly pursue enlightenment is because I am not ready? Even my genuine pursuits are fruitless because they are not single-minded! It almost seems like to be enlightened, one must already be enlightened.
You plant a seed, it grows up. It doesn't sprout its flowers until it is at the appropriate place in its development. The structure has to be appropriate. The flower cannot sprout while the seed is in the ground. It would serve no purpose. Your mind/body/spirit complex was the seed thereby planted by the Logos. The intense desire you feel for truth is like the flower getting ready to sprout the flower buds. Or in Ra speak, it is the natural accumulation of spiritual gravity (love) calling you ever inwards towards your eternal infinite nature. It is the natural rhythm of the cosmos.
You don't seek enlightenment (which is just waking up), until you have acquired enough spiritual mass (awareness of truth). The love is spiritual gravity, which summons an equivalent amount of spiritual mass (light). Gravity and mass are two sides of the same coin. If you can summon the gravity, the mass will soon follow (it has to balance itself). This is why perfecting love of others or love of self pulls you into a denser illusion (fourth density).
(08-25-2017, 02:59 PM)sjel Wrote: Another befuddling quote:
Quote:Q: How am I to go beyond?
M: You know it already; do it.
Q: That's what you say. I know nothing about it.
M: Yet I repeat -- you know it. Do it. Go beyond, back to your normal, natural, supreme state.
Q: I'm puzzled.
M: A speck in the eye makes you think you are blind. Wash it out and look.
Q: I do look! I see only darkness.
M: Remove the speck and your eyes will be flooded with light. The light is there -- waiting. The eyes are there -- ready. The darkness you see is but the shadow of the tiny speck. Get rid of it and come back to your natural state.
Keep in mind, these are translations, and not the words of the man himself. Search your heart for the truth. Your infinite and eternal nature is truth itself. Light itself. It is easy to over think this stuff. If you can find the still center in your awareness, you'll begin to see the simplicity of it. The universe is not as complicated as we want to make it. Be at peace, Sjel. All is well. The Eye already knows how to see, it is always seeing. Just take off that which blocks the light from entering the Eye. You have to go beyond "interpretation". That is the realm of the mind, in the same way that sunglasses are not a part of the eye, they are that which blocks the light from entering the eye. Attend to the actual. Always bring your awareness back to the raw present experience. Eventually it will seep down into the mind complex as well as automatic behavioral patterns. Then the flowers will start to bloom.
These are just suggestions I've found helpful on my path. I don't claim to know anything. My path is one of discarding knowledge nowadays. I seek the gates to unknowing.
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - Glow - 08-25-2017
(08-25-2017, 02:59 PM)sjel Wrote:Quote:Q: Can it happen that the mind is clear and quiet and yet no reflection appears?
M: There is destiny to consider. The unconscious is in the grip of destiny; it is destiny, in fact. One may have to wait. But however heavy may be the hand of destiny, it can be lifted by patience and self-control. Integrity and purity remove the obstacles and the vision of reality appears in the mind.
Okay. So even though destiny is the foundation of our short trek through unconsciousness, we can lift the veil through intense dedication. However:
Quote:M: The urge to find oneself is a sign that you are getting ready. The impulse always comes from within. Unless your time has come, you will have neither the desire nor the strength to go for self-enquiry whole-heartedly.
So the readiness of the individual for enlightenment is up to... what? To whom? The Individual seems to play only a periphery role in determining its rate of progress toward perfection. Some infinite source is the inevitable motivation to dive into the Self - not the Individual.
So basically, my lack of motivation to single-mindedly pursue enlightenment is because I am not ready? Even my genuine pursuits are fruitless because they are not single-minded! It almost seems like to be enlightened, one must already be enlightened.
Another befuddling quote:
Quote:Q: How am I to go beyond?
M: You know it already; do it.
Q: That's what you say. I know nothing about it.
M: Yet I repeat -- you know it. Do it. Go beyond, back to your normal, natural, supreme state.
Q: I'm puzzled.
M: A speck in the eye makes you think you are blind. Wash it out and look.
Q: I do look! I see only darkness.
M: Remove the speck and your eyes will be flooded with light. The light is there -- waiting. The eyes are there -- ready. The darkness you see is but the shadow of the tiny speck. Get rid of it and come back to your natural state.
My own contact has basically told me the same. My contact explaines progress towards removing distortion as working through the 8 orbiters you came here to face in this life. Each orbiter has orbiters so it's a progression.
It has told me how many orbiters will be left when an entity dies. Jesus made it to zero for instance. Most make it to 6 or 7. Many make great progress the last month of their life. Eternity seems to know who will do what. I blew through the orbiter I just faced in a year. My next one im told will take 12 years. I wouldn't worry-unless you think you are supposed to
It all goes as planned from what I'm told.
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - Nau7ik - 08-26-2017
The requirements to graduate from the third density illusion doesn't require that one be perfectly enlightened. You are exactly where you need to be, we all are. We are doing the best that we can. We can always do more though. I'm not wholeheartedly in it either. I haven't abandoned my "normal" life to give myself over to meditation and seeking within. That's okay. We are here to learn the ways of love. The fact that we are even considering these topics and concepts and principles is an indication that we are well on our way to enlightenment. What is enlightenment? In the Buddhist philosophy there are four stages. The first stage is stream-entry, the initial contact with intelligent infinity. The fourth stage is complete and perfect, 8th density. Many of these guys are aiming at complete and perfect enlightenment.
If you're a wanderer, then you've already attained levels of enlightenment in previous lifetimes. One can even equate the levels of enlightenment to the densities. (I think this is possible. It may not be entirely accurate but we can get a sense of the spiritual evolution.) So then why are we here in limited bodies and minds? Good question.
All is well, my friends! Don't worry yourself. You are doing what you are meant to do right now. And as long as we continue our spiritual practice, our time of epiphany and revelation and enlightenment shall come. It will surely come, we just need to be patient. Q'uo also echos this sentiment, for what it's worth.
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - sjel - 08-26-2017
(08-25-2017, 09:09 PM)Glow Wrote: My own contact has basically told me the same. My contact explaines progress towards removing distortion as working through the 8 orbiters you came here to face in this life. Each orbiter has orbiters so it's a progression.
It has told me how many orbiters will be left when an entity dies. Jesus made it to zero for instance. Most make it to 6 or 7. Many make great progress the last month of their life. Eternity seems to know who will do what. I blew through the orbiter I just faced in a year. My next one im told will take 12 years. I wouldn't worry-unless you think you are supposed to
It all goes as planned from what I'm told.
Out of curiosity, what is your 'contact?' Do you mean guides, angels, spirit teacher? Also, I've never heard of orbiters - are they like 8 lessons of love that we have to go through in this lifetime?
You say it all goes as planned - not the specific events, surely, but the level of catalyst we receive?? I have had significant moments where I feel that I progress extremely fast one day, and then hit an invisible barrier, like there is a rope around my waist tied tightly to the ground. I wonder if this is part of my personal spiritual evolution plan - don't progress faster than was programmed! Somehow this doesn't seem right to me though... only progressing at a rate that is allowed by one's destiny.
(08-26-2017, 08:37 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: The requirements to graduate from the third density illusion doesn't require that one be perfectly enlightened.
....
If you're a wanderer, then you've already attained levels of enlightenment in previous lifetimes. One can even equate the levels of enlightenment to the densities. (I think this is possible. It may not be entirely accurate but we can get a sense of the spiritual evolution.)
Here's a couple of related questions: Is enlightenment in third density only the *first step* in an infinitely unfolding progression of evolution? And is enlightenment in another third density realm less of an achievement, given that our Earth realm is supposedly the most difficult?
If enlightenment is in stages - is Eckhart Tolle on the same level as Nisargadatta Maharaj, for example? Is the Buddha the same level of enlightenment as Sadhguru? These four people are masters in my opinion, but Nisargadatta and Buddha somehow carry a much deeper weight than the other two. Yet all four of these masters would state that they perceive only an infinite silence within themselves. So what is the difference then, if any?
_______ - GentleWanderer - 08-26-2017
_______
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - Stranger - 08-26-2017
(08-25-2017, 02:59 PM)sjel Wrote:Quote:Q: Can it happen that the mind is clear and quiet and yet no reflection appears?
M: There is destiny to consider. The unconscious is in the grip of destiny; it is destiny, in fact. One may have to wait. But however heavy may be the hand of destiny, it can be lifted by patience and self-control. Integrity and purity remove the obstacles and the vision of reality appears in the mind.
Okay. So even though destiny is the foundation of our short trek through unconsciousness, we can lift the veil through intense dedication. However:
Quote:M: The urge to find oneself is a sign that you are getting ready. The impulse always comes from within. Unless your time has come, you will have neither the desire nor the strength to go for self-enquiry whole-heartedly.
So the readiness of the individual for enlightenment is up to... what? To whom? The Individual seems to play only a periphery role in determining its rate of progress toward perfection. Some infinite source is the inevitable motivation to dive into the Self - not the Individual.
So basically, my lack of motivation to single-mindedly pursue enlightenment is because I am not ready? Even my genuine pursuits are fruitless because they are not single-minded! It almost seems like to be enlightened, one must already be enlightened.
Another befuddling quote:
Quote:Q: How am I to go beyond?
M: You know it already; do it.
Q: That's what you say. I know nothing about it.
M: Yet I repeat -- you know it. Do it. Go beyond, back to your normal, natural, supreme state.
Q: I'm puzzled.
M: A speck in the eye makes you think you are blind. Wash it out and look.
Q: I do look! I see only darkness.
M: Remove the speck and your eyes will be flooded with light. The light is there -- waiting. The eyes are there -- ready. The darkness you see is but the shadow of the tiny speck. Get rid of it and come back to your natural state.
Let's look at Ra, 17.2:
Quote:We cannot offer shortcuts to enlightenment. Enlightenment is of the moment, is an opening to intelligent infinity. It can only be accomplished by the self, for the self. Another self cannot teach/learn enlightenment, but only teach/learn information, inspiration, or a sharing of love, of mystery, of the unknown that makes the other-self reach out and begin the seeking process that ends in a moment, but who can know when an entity will open the gate to the present?
So, according to Ra, enlightenment is the opening of the gateway to intelligent infinity. As others here have pointed out, it is not necessary to open the gateway to intelligent infinity to graduate at harvest.
It is necessary to be 51% STO oriented: what does that mean to you? Is there anything you can do to move in that direction?
Every single moment in life is catalyst offering the choice to polarize one step in either direction. What more do you need?
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - sjel - 08-26-2017
(08-26-2017, 02:10 PM)Stranger Wrote: So, according to Ra, enlightenment is the opening of the gateway to intelligent infinity. As others here have pointed out, it is not necessary to open the gateway to intelligent infinity to graduate at harvest.
It is necessary to be 51% STO oriented: what does that mean to you? Is there anything you can do to move in that direction?
Every single moment in life is catalyst offering the choice to polarize one step in either direction. What more do you need?
I'm not really worried about harvestability - rather, I'm specifically wondering about that final moment, the single moment of enlightenment that ends the process of seeking. It seems that nothing can be said about enlightenment, and no one can even do or say anything to provoke it in another. Ra said it in the quote you shared, every master everywhere says it. There is literally nothing to be said about enlightenment that is true. Nisargadatta said this:
Quote:The clearer you understand that on the level of the mind you can be described in negative terms only, the quicker you will come to the end of your search and realise your limitless being.
It seems that there is a vast host of teachers recommending practices or mental techniques to deal with negative energies and mental obstacles, but the truth seems to be that there is no technique, and to stop trying.
Stop trying. Okay. Sit... No, you're trying not to try. That's not not trying. You have to give up resistance. Stop trying to give up. Just give up. There is no effort involved in enlightenment. Effort means you are going about it the wrong way.
Enlightenment enlightenment enlightenment
(08-26-2017, 01:23 PM)GentleWanderer Wrote: There are many levels, maybe infinite levels of enlightements imo.
I'm sure you're right, as a static form of bliss would eventually get tiresome and boring - however, what else is there to evolve if there is nothing more to be done? If you have already reached silence, what comes next? There is no next. You're there.
Eckhart said that upon his sudden enlightenment, he experienced deep, deep bliss. Yet in the months and years following this, he experienced ever deeper states of bliss, ever deeper silence. So enlightenment is infinitely deepening? Is that it? *fully aware that I am attempting to formulate a concise description of enlightenment*
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - Stranger - 08-26-2017
Sounds a lot like chasing your own tail, to me.
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - sjel - 08-26-2017
(08-26-2017, 05:34 PM)Stranger Wrote: Sounds a lot like chasing your own tail, to me.
Alright well how do you perceive it then? Every unenlightened soul still has perceptions of perfection. I get that my own perceptions of enlightenment are infinitely flawed and ultimately useless, but what else do I have to go on? What are yours?
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - Stranger - 08-26-2017
(08-26-2017, 05:43 PM)sjel Wrote:(08-26-2017, 05:34 PM)Stranger Wrote: Sounds a lot like chasing your own tail, to me.
Alright well how do you perceive it then? Every unenlightened soul still has perceptions of perfection. I get that my own perceptions of enlightenment are infinitely flawed and ultimately useless, but what else do I have to go on? What are yours?
I think you should ignore everything I say, because I have never experienced intelligent infinity/enlightenment. But Ra's thoughts may carry more value.
Ra indicates that the gateway to intelligent infinity can be opened by bringing all of one's energy centers into harmony and balance:
Quote:57.24 The initiation of [the] Queen’s Chamber has to do with the abandoning of self to such desire to know the Creator in full that the purified instreaming light is drawn in balanced fashion through all energy centers, meeting in indigo and opening the gate to intelligent infinity.
and of course bringing the chakras into full balance requires purity, i.e., freedom from harmful distortions:
Quote:4.8 Thus, there are those among your people at this time whose purity is already one with intelligent infinity.
Quote:15.12 The indigo-ray balancing is quite central to the type of work which revolves about the spirit complex, which has its influx then into the transformation or transmutation of third density to fourth density, it being the energy center receiving the least distorted outpourings of love/light from intelligent energy and having also the potential for the key to the gateway of intelligent infinity.
Quote:64.4 The principle behind any ritual of the white magical nature is to so configure the stimuli which reach down into the trunk of mind that this arrangement causes the generation of disciplined and purified emotion or love which then may be both protection and the key to the gateway to intelligent infinity.
Quote:57.33 The purpose of clearing each energy center is to allow that meeting place to occur at the indigo-ray vibration, thus making contact with intelligent infinity and dissolving all illusions.
There are lots more but you get the idea. It seems clear enough that [font=sans-serif]whoever said that there's nothing to be done to achieve it seems to be in direct contradiction of Ra's statements on this subject.[/font]
[font=sans-serif]Furthermore, you're not likely going to reach intelligent infinity by letting your mind run in circles, puzzling over puzzles. The enlightenment experience is not one of the mind. In fact, obsessively desiring and focusing on something (whether enlightment or anything else) strikes me as generating a fairly unbalanced state.[/font]
Based on the above, I'd say go back to the basics. Love, harmony, oneness, compassion, inner peace, graceful and grateful acceptance of all catalyst that comes your way. Then whatever's supposed to happen will happen.
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - Nau7ik - 08-27-2017
Reply to Sjel:
Quote:What is the state of the Arahant after death? Is it a state of annihilation, of non existence, or a state of eternal existence in some other form. The Buddha rejects both these alternatives, declaring that this question is inapplicable.
The question, "What is the state of the Arahant after death?" arises because of the subtle clinging to the idea that an Arahant has a self. But since the Arahant has no self, he does not enter into any state of eternal existence in some heavenly world or as a universal self in some impersonalized form. Also final Nibbana is not a state of annihilation, since there is no self to be annihilated or extinguished. What we call the Arahant is a dependently arisen process of becoming, and the attainment of final Nibbana is cessation of this process of becoming. To try to speak about what lies beyond the ending of this process is to venture outside the boundaries of conceptualization, outside the boundaries of language.
The Buddha says;
"In so far only is there a pathway for words, a pathway for language, a pathway for concepts, a sphere of understanding, that is, when there is consciousness together with mind and body. When there is no remainder of consciousness and the mind-body process, then there is no pathway for words, no pathway for language, no pathway for concepts."
So from this we see that concepts cannot conceive the 'inconceivable' and the mind cannot measure the 'immeasurable'.
The Buddha illustrates this with the example of a fire. Suppose there is a fire, burning in dependence on fuel, the sticks and logs. Now if the fire does not get any further fuel, when it uses up the old fuel, then it goes out. Suppose we ask, when the fire goes out; where did it go? Did it go to the North? To the South? To the East? To the West? The answer to this is that none of these questions apply. All of these are inapplicable. The fire has simply gone out.
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - Glow - 08-27-2017
(08-26-2017, 12:40 PM)sjel Wrote:(08-25-2017, 09:09 PM)Glow Wrote: My own contact has basically told me the same. My contact explaines progress towards removing distortion as working through the 8 orbiters you came here to face in this life. Each orbiter has orbiters so it's a progression.
It has told me how many orbiters will be left when an entity dies. Jesus made it to zero for instance. Most make it to 6 or 7. Many make great progress the last month of their life. Eternity seems to know who will do what. I blew through the orbiter I just faced in a year. My next one im told will take 12 years. I wouldn't worry-unless you think you are supposed to
It all goes as planned from what I'm told.
Out of curiosity, what is your 'contact?' Do you mean guides, angels, spirit teacher? Also, I've never heard of orbiters - are they like 8 lessons of love that we have to go through in this lifetime?
You say it all goes as planned - not the specific events, surely, but the level of catalyst we receive?? I have had significant moments where I feel that I progress extremely fast one day, and then hit an invisible barrier, like there is a rope around my waist tied tightly to the ground. I wonder if this is part of my personal spiritual evolution plan - don't progress faster than was programmed! Somehow this doesn't seem right to me though... only progressing at a rate that is allowed by one's destiny.
My soul source. When I say mine it's not "mine" I am one of its projection. There are currently 2 others incarnate here so when I say not "mine" I mean it. I'm more their's.
The word orbiters is not meant as dogma it is just a way for me to understand the process/progression. Often what is given is understanding that isn't easily put into words. Orbiter sort of came close enough so I can converse about it.
Its a fractal in nature the "orbiters" like a path through the journey. What do you need to learn/teach or confirm understanding wise?
What little pieces do you need to experience to reach each understanding.
I apologize I'm not going to be able to put it into words. The orbiters are different for every one, even if at the surface they are similar.
My last one for instance crudely put into words was basically knowing/accepting my intrinsic unquestionable worthiness. Intellectually I've known everyone was intrinsically equally worthy forever but its taken a 40 year journey with much pain and struggle to confirm that value. It took every single minute and incident of those 40 years. It will effect the way I face the path ahead. All was necessary.
I wouldn't think about it as only being able to progress as "allowed" you aren't this little you. You are the big you that you are an extension of. Much more insight and awareness from the source perspective and it is only this "source you" that would set any limits, and only so your plan can go as intended.
I also cant say for certain its the same for all people. The info I get might only apply to the ones I don't have a word for but seem to parallel wanderers, it might not even apply to all wanderers. Other parts who are learning things for the first time may have a more chaotic version of free will. It seems A LOT of us though have a pretty detailed path where even the smallest detail get us exactly where we are going in exactly the frame of mind we need to be for that time.
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - JayCee - 09-11-2017
(08-25-2017, 02:59 PM)sjel Wrote:Quote:M: The urge to find oneself is a sign that you are getting ready. The impulse always comes from within. Unless your time has come, you will have neither the desire nor the strength to go for self-enquiry whole-heartedly.
So the readiness of the individual for enlightenment is up to... what? To whom? The Individual seems to play only a periphery role in determining its rate of progress toward perfection. Some infinite source is the inevitable motivation to dive into the Self - not the Individual.
Yes, I think you are correct in your assessment. Nice to find some fellow readers of Nisagardatta here
(08-25-2017, 02:59 PM)sjel Wrote: Another befuddling quote:
Q: How am I to go beyond?
M: You know it already; do it.
Q: That's what you say. I know nothing about it.
M: Yet I repeat -- you know it. Do it. Go beyond, back to your normal, natural, supreme state.
Q: I'm puzzled.
M: A speck in the eye makes you think you are blind. Wash it out and look.
Q: I do look! I see only darkness.
M: Remove the speck and your eyes will be flooded with light. The light is there -- waiting. The eyes are there -- ready. The darkness you see is but the shadow of the tiny speck. Get rid of it and come back to your natural state.
I think what happens here is he is trying to get the questioner out of his chatterbox mind and into his natural state aka enlightened state.
When he says "you know it already" he is implying that it is just that, it is our natural state, that we can never lose, that is always there, and therefore we know it.
It is just the mind and all the conditioning that has been going on for years that obscures it.
The tiny speck is imo a metapher - isn't it so that 99 % of the mind is silent and it is just the 1 % that is causing all the trouble?
Obscuring everything?
Remove the speck and you will be there. Actually you are already there, just the 1% is successful in fooling you you aren't.
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - Minyatur - 09-11-2017
Actually I think the tiny speck refers to the veil, I prefer referring it to as a psychic filter, diverting your awareness or blocking your vision, but can definitely see why it would be called a spectre of dust. Seeing it as that it makes your mind subconsciously avoid strongly looking at it and other things may help gaining awareness of it (why I like psychic filter as a term).
The point is more that it is an actual thing that's there, seek to feel it sincerely and you will, and once you do then you know there's a you without it and once you've seen without it then you'll have seen yourself.
You're told its there, its always been there, right upon your face, right upon your senses, hiding the core of yourself. Will you have faith and attempt to see?
The psychic filter notion came from a Doctor Who episode I watched about same time I had started reading the Ra material. In this episode there was an alien prisonnier hiding in a girl's room and he had placed a psychic filter on her so that she avoids looking at the room and so the doctor, to help her gain awareness of it, could only ask her to look where she avoided looking. Contemplation of the feeling it gave me to watch helped me gain a grip upon my own veil and how it works.
Quote:
The Doctor: How many rooms?
Amy: I’m sorry, what?
The Doctor: On this floor. How many rooms on this floor? Count them for me now.
Amy: Why?
The Doctor: Because it will change your life.
Amy: Five. One two three four five.
The Doctor: Six.
Amy: Six?
The Doctor: Look.
Amy: Look where?
The Doctor: Exactly where you don’t want to look. Where you never want to look. The corner of your eye. Look behind you
RE: Nisargadatta Maharaj states that enlightenment is largely up to 'destiny.' - 3inone - 09-13-2017
(08-26-2017, 04:39 PM)sjel Wrote:(08-26-2017, 02:10 PM)Stranger Wrote: So, according to Ra, enlightenment is the opening of the gateway to intelligent infinity. As others here have pointed out, it is not necessary to open the gateway to intelligent infinity to graduate at harvest.
It is necessary to be 51% STO oriented: what does that mean to you? Is there anything you can do to move in that direction?
Every single moment in life is catalyst offering the choice to polarize one step in either direction. What more do you need?
I'm not really worried about harvestability - rather, I'm specifically wondering about that final moment, the single moment of enlightenment that ends the process of seeking. It seems that nothing can be said about enlightenment, and no one can even do or say anything to provoke it in another. Ra said it in the quote you shared, every master everywhere says it. There is literally nothing to be said about enlightenment that is true. Nisargadatta said this:
Quote:The clearer you understand that on the level of the mind you can be described in negative terms only, the quicker you will come to the end of your search and realise your limitless being.
It seems that there is a vast host of teachers recommending practices or mental techniques to deal with negative energies and mental obstacles, but the truth seems to be that there is no technique, and to stop trying.
Stop trying. Okay. Sit... No, you're trying not to try. That's not not trying. You have to give up resistance. Stop trying to give up. Just give up. There is no effort involved in enlightenment. Effort means you are going about it the wrong way.
Enlightenment enlightenment enlightenment
(08-26-2017, 01:23 PM)GentleWanderer Wrote: There are many levels, maybe infinite levels of enlightements imo.
I'm sure you're right, as a static form of bliss would eventually get tiresome and boring - however, what else is there to evolve if there is nothing more to be done? If you have already reached silence, what comes next? There is no next. You're there.
Eckhart said that upon his sudden enlightenment, he experienced deep, deep bliss. Yet in the months and years following this, he experienced ever deeper states of bliss, ever deeper silence. So enlightenment is infinitely deepening? Is that it? *fully aware that I am attempting to formulate a concise description of enlightenment*
Hi all,
Sjel, i think enlightenment is not - Sjel said: about that final moment, the single moment of enlightenment that ends the process of seeking.
Or as you said acquire bliss and then more bliss or no thoughts.
Those Bliss are states of mind, that is not enlightenment just pre-requisite.
If there is a point of enlightenment then it should be the contact with infinite intelligence which means the ability to communicate and work within the multi-dimensional and Oneness aspect of our being and there are so many fields of infinite connectivity, probabilities, levels and intensity of Consciousness so it not going into nothing but opening up vast possibility of work or life to experience or become, there is no limit and is not a fully enlightened and goes back to source thingy there is only One entity One Universal Consciousness is it not ?
Simply put we can also say enlightenment is the ceasing of seeking and the initialization of effective works.
Just my own thoughts.
