(01-29-2017, 02:38 PM)anagogy Wrote: Ra: "[...] We do not suggest any hard and fast rulings of diet although we may suggest the virtue of the liquids. [...]"

Quote:83.28 Questioner: I noticed you started this session with “I communicate now.” You usually use “We communicate now.” Is there any significance or difference with respect to that, and then is there anything that we can do to make the instrument more comfortable or improve the contact?

Ra: I am Ra. We am Ra. You may see the grammatical difficulties of your linguistic structure in dealing with a social memory complex. There is no distinction between the first person singular and plural in your language when pertaining to Ra.

We offer the following, not to infringe upon your free will, but because this instrument has specifically requested information as to its maintenance and the support group does so at this querying. We may suggest that the instrument has two areas of potential distortion, both of which may be aided in the bodily sense by the ingestion of those things which seem to the instrument to be desirable. We do not suggest any hard and fast rulings of diet although we may suggest the virtue of the liquids. The instrument has an increasing ability to sense that which will aid its bodily complex. It is being aided by affirmations and also by the light which is the food of the density of resting.

We may ask the support group to monitor the instrument as always so that in the case of the desire for the more complex proteins that which is the least distorted might be offered to the bodily complex which is indeed at this time potentially capable of greatly increased distortion.

Quote:84.2 Questioner: In the last session you mentioned least distorted complex protein in that the body complex of the instrument was capable of greatly increased distortion. Would you define the protein of which you spoke and we would like to know, increased distortion in which direction, towards health or ill-health?

Ra: I am Ra. We were, in the cautionary statement about complex protein, referring to the distortions of the animal protein which has been slaughtered and preservatives added in order to maintain the acceptability to your peoples of this non-living, physical material. It is well to attempt to find those items which are fresh and of the best quality possible in order to avoid increasing this particular entity’s distortions which may be loosely termed allergic.

We were speaking of the distortion towards disease which is potential at this space/time.

84.3 Questioner: What disease in particular were you speaking of and what would be its cause?

Ra: I am Ra. One disease, as you call this distortion, is that of the arthritis and the lupus erythematosus. The cause of this complex of distortions is, at base, pre-incarnative. We refrain from determining the other distortion potential at this space/time due to our desire to maintain the free will of this group. Affirmations may yet cause this difficulty to resolve itself. Therefore, we simply encouraged the general care with the diet with the instructions about allergy, as you call this quite complex distortion of the mind and body complexes.

Quote:40.14 Questioner: In dietary matters, what would be the foods that one would include and what would be the foods that one would exclude in a general way for the most or the greatest care of one’s bodily complex?

Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, we underline and emphasize that this information is not to be understood literally but as a link or psychological nudge for the body and the mind and spirit. Thus it is the care and respect for the self that is the true thing of importance. In this light we may iterate the basic information given for this instrument’s diet. The vegetables, the fruits, the grains, and to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism, the animal products. These are those substances showing respect for the self. In addition, though this has not been mentioned, for this instrument is not in need of purification, those entities in need of purging the self of a poison thought-form or emotion complex do well to take care in following a program of careful fasting until the destructive thought-form has been purged analogously with the by-products of ridding the physical vehicle of excess material. Again you see the value not to the body complex but used as a link for the mind and spirit. Thus self reveals self to self.

Quote:18.4 Questioner: Are there any foods that are helpful or harmful that the instrument might eat?

Ra: I am Ra. This instrument has body complex distortion towards ill health in the distortion direction corrected best by ingestion of the foodstuffs of your grains and your vegetables, as you call them. However, this is extremely unimportant when regarded as an aid with equality to other aids such as attitude which this instrument has in abundance. It, however, aids the vital energies of this instrument, with less distortion towards ill health, to ingest foodstuffs in the above manner with occasional ingestion of what you call your meats, due to the instrument’s need to lessen the distortion towards low vital energy.

Quote:18.27 Questioner: Not completely. What specifically shall we do for physical balancing?

Ra: I am Ra. One: take care with the foodstuffs. Two: manipulate the physical complex to alleviate the distortion towards physical complex pain. Three: encourage a certain amount of what you would call your exercise. The final injunction: to take special care with the alignments this second session so that the entity may gain as much aid as possible from the various symbols. We suggest you check these symbols most carefully. This entity is slightly misplaced from the proper configuration. Not important at this time. More important when a second session is to be scheduled.

Ra Wrote:As to the instrument, the journey from worth in action to worth in esse is arduous. The entity has denied itself in order to be free from that which it calls addiction*. This sort of martyrdom, and here we speak of the small but symbolically great sacrifice of the clothing, causes the entity to frame a selfhood in poorness which feeds unworthiness unless the poverty is seen to be true richness. In other words, good works for the wrong reasons cause confusion and distortion. We encourage the instrument to value itself and to see that its true requirements are valued by the self. We suggest contemplation of true richness of being.

Ra Wrote:Firstly, we underline and emphasize that this information is not to be understood literally but as a link or psychological nudge for the body and the mind and spirit.

(01-29-2017, 04:12 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: To be fair, in context, this is also specifically information for Carla, and is one of two suggestions:

(01-29-2017, 02:43 PM)Haleakala Wrote: Seems like a good line to keep in mind when dealing with diet, as there are many who tend towards hard and fast rulings and like to preach them.

Quo Wrote:Eating a diet which is balanced in its ability to provide the body what it needs in order to provide its portion of vital energy. You may fruitfully consider the grains, the vegetables, the dairy products to the extent that they are necessary, the animal products of an high order of being when necessary to increase low vital energy.

Ra Wrote:The vegetables, the fruits, the grains, and to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism, the animal products.

(01-29-2017, 04:53 PM)anagogy Wrote:

(01-29-2017, 04:12 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: To be fair, in context, this is also specifically information for Carla, and is one of two suggestions:

While true, the fact that they are giving dietary advice specific to an particular individual person is pretty telling in and of itself -- i.e. its not going to be the same for everyone. So even in that context it would imply then, no hard and fast rules for all people. If one person is a special circumstance, anyone might be. We just have to listen to our bodies to divine that information.

Ra Wrote:It may seem that the rational or analytical mind might have more of a possibility of successfully pursuing the negative orientation due to the fact that, in our understanding, too much order is by its essence negative. However, this same ability to structure abstract concepts and to analyze experiential data may be the key to rapid positive polarization. It may be said that those whose analytical capacities are predominant have somewhat more to work with in polarizing.

Quote:Questioner: Yes, I have another one. It’s concerning the relationship of the body with the mind. It seems, or I find it (inaudible) taking an inordinate amount of sweets, and sugar is present in large amounts in my body, that my thought processes tend towards a more depressed kind of state, that I feel I wind up (inaudible) more prey to the ego games that we play in our lives, and more of a feeling of selfishness, and less of giving. Is there a relationship to the state of the body to the mind that such things occur?

My brother, that is indeed correct. As we said before, there are various degrees of perfection in the combustibility of nutrients that enter the furnace that is your physical vehicle. Those things which are of the sugar family are very unfortunate in their tendencies towards causing the person to become more within his or her own personality structure. It is, as this instrument would say, a downer. It is intended to give energy, however it does not, it removes energy from the electrical field of the body.

You see, there is a concept of inwardness and outwardness, and that which you know as sugar in many of its forms is an inward-looking combustible. Therefore, when ingested it will produce more consciousness of the self and therefore more tendency towards pettiness and, as you said, game-playing. On the other hand, there is an even greater difficulty; that is that as the body craves balance, and as all things crave balance, so a very inward food will request that the body ingest a very outward food, that which causes the body to gain the energy which it has lost, and therefore this will encourage the body to eat an equally large amount of what you would call red meat. This is an imperfectly burned substance, and should be used in your furnace with some caution, for the byproducts are often difficult to deal with when taken in excess, and you need to have some of your filters replaced after a long period of using these substances.

Thus, there is indeed a great deal of connection between mind and body for the simple reason that your mind dwells within the confines of the physical body while it is awake, unless of course you are fasting for a long period, in which case it might not stay with the body at all.

That, incidentally, is one of the purposes of fasting. Contrary to some modern beliefs, it is not a method of losing excess avoirdupois but rather a means of transcending the physical illusion and ascending to a more fine and well-tuned illusion. Thus the teacher known as Jesus fasted, as did many others in your holy works and others throughout the world.

May we answer your question further, my brother?

Quote:B: Thanks, Q’uo, for this channeling You know I pore over your words almost daily. To realize my highest known desires, is it necessary that I change or purify my diet, and, if so, to what degree?

I am Q’uo, and am aware of your query, my brother. The degree of purification of one’s diet, of one’s thoughts, or of one’s actions is completely a function of one’s free will. As one wishes to increase the level of being with the knowledge that this quality informs all service, then it is well to take an action such as [the one] you have suggested, the improving of one’s diet, to serve as a training aid, shall we say, a function or an action in the physical world, which grounds the desires that are spiritual in nature so that the daily round of activities is informed by such inspiration, such desire, and such perseverance.

Thus, it is completely a function of your free will as to how your personality sees such physical expressions of metaphysical principles. Trust your own heart, your own knowing of that which is appropriate. “Seek and you shall find,” it is truly written.

Quote:Carla: Yes, a couple more (inaudible). I have observed in my eating, not preferences, but in what is easiest for me to eat in that I am not able to eat very much solid food. If I can make this choice for myself of what to eat it would be all liquid or partially liquid or whatever. I realize you can’t give me a diet, but, in general, gazing at someone with longstanding difficulties, could you confirm that the intelligent thing to do would be to eat even more sparingly, and even more sparingly until an equilibrium is reached?

I am Q’uo, and am aware of your query, my sister. We are aware that your intuitive capabilities allow you to discern those foodstuffs that are available to you that would be most easily assimilated by your body. And we would recommend that you utilize this intuitive capacity in the greatest degree during this time of difficulty for your digestive tract. We would recommend that there be a variety of foodstuffs, as great as possible, in whatever form, be it solid or liquid, that you ingest, in order that your body be given as much opportunity to take from those foodstuffs that which was offered and that which it needs.

The human body has a great deal of ability to utilize foods in the most appropriate manner, however, there is a certain variety that is necessary in order to allow the body to find those ingredients which are most helpful to it in whatever its given condition. Thus, we do not recommend one kind of diet that is liquid or solid, over the other. Rather, the blending of these in a fashion which feels to you to be appropriate according to the time and condition of your body.

(01-30-2017, 06:51 AM)Nía Wrote: Hi Haleakala,

welcome to the forums!

(01-29-2017, 02:43 PM)Haleakala Wrote: Seems like a good line to keep in mind when dealing with diet, as there are many who tend towards hard and fast rulings and like to preach them.

My feeling regarding your perception here is, that this pattern surfaces, at least most of the time, more about ethical choices than about 'diet'. Veganism, for example, for most people, is a lifestyle choice of least harm, and therefore, by these, not actually considered a 'diet'. And that's where people (me included) can get emotional - when their ethical values, ie nonkilling, nonviolence, least harm, or even nonharm, are not being shared - with other-selves (of 2D and 3D alike) paying the price for these other-selves' choices. Of course, I don't know whether you're referring to people who live a vegetarian, vegan, fruitarian... lifestyle for ethical or other idealist reasons and advocate for it, or simply to people that have concerned themvelves with food matters and think to 'know' what's best for others also (ie paleo, ketogenic, or any sort of diet), but for me, this is a noteworthy difference.

Concerning Ra, Q'uo & Co, as Jade pointed out articulately already, they have to make sure not to infringe on anyone's free will, so giving specific information would be impossible for them (even telling Carla what to eat and avoid probably cost them some polarity).

Another principle especially Q'uo have pointed out, is to eat what is 'necessary' to oneself:

Quo Wrote:Eating a diet which is balanced in its ability to provide the body what it needs in order to provide its portion of vital energy. You may fruitfully consider the grains, the vegetables, the dairy products to the extent that they are necessary, the animal products of an high order of being when necessary to increase low vital energy.

Ra Wrote:The vegetables, the fruits, the grains, and to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism, the animal products.

So, in addition to the principles Jade made out, finding out what the body really needs, what would actually is necessary for one's own best health in one's specific circumstances, should also make sense.

Another information regarding that topic I find quite interesting, is Morris' report of a hypnotic regression to a past life (shared with Carla, Don, and others of the L/L community) in a higher density, himself suggesting it being 4D, probably referring to the information Ra gave about the type of food ingested in 5D: "You would call this type of food nectar, or ambrosia, or a light broth of golden white hue", prepared by thought, which would be different from what he remembered: A Wanderer’s Last Home (parts of his report has been published in the introduction to the Ra Material/LoO book 1 as well).

-`ღ´-

Latwii Wrote:C: When I do meditate there are times I have this vision of traveling at extreme speeds through space. And I almost have a feeling that I’m partially leaving my body. Is this happening or is it just a sensation of meditation?

I am Latwii. My brother, there are various explanations possible for this phenomenon which you are experiencing. A partial leaving of the body is one, but potential, may we say, explanation for this phenomenon. There are other possibilities which include your diet, which you mentioned before. Occasionally the chemical balances or imbalances within the brain may be affected by those ingredients which are ingested by your peoples as a normal part of your daily existence. Care in diet can often be of assistance in making the meditative state a clearer channel for the expressing of those vibrations which are attempting to be made manifest during your meditation.

In this particular case of which you speak, we may say that it is a combination of these two possible explanations which is acting and causing an imbalance in your experience of the meditative state. One is attempting to express as the leaving of the cares or the body as you experience. The other, the intake of certain chemicals or foods is inhibiting this expression.

May we be of further service, my brother?

C: Is this chemical that you speak of the ingestion of sugars?

I am Latwii. You are correct, my brother. We could not say this without your finding for yourself of this truth.

(01-30-2017, 06:51 AM)Nía Wrote: Concerning Ra, Q'uo & Co, as Jade pointed out articulately already, they have to make sure not to infringe on anyone's free will, so giving specific information would be impossible for them (even telling Carla what to eat and avoid probably cost them some polarity).

Having said all that, Haleakala, if you are still watching this thread, I can tell you anecdotally, and personally, that I have seen people thrive on all diets: carnivorous, vegan, omnivorous, and I have seen people [ Wrote:not [/i]thrive on all sorts and different diets (sickly vegans and omnivores alike). I think people make too much of diet to be honest. I think you can find vibrational alignment with any diet. I think the important thing is finding what is right for you, individually. Don't fall prey to the group think of any particular subculture, living out the reality of their belief systems. Everybody is focusing evidence of their beliefs into being to the same degree as their purity of faith.

The nature of reality is such that no diet is the "The One True Diet" and I believe that is by design, lest someone reduce 'rightness' to something black and white. That would present an extremely pallid and shallow experiential nexus for incarnational catalyst. That would not be representative of the Logos I have come to know.

Follow your heart, All is Well. 

(01-31-2017, 02:06 AM)anagogy Wrote: So frankly, this idea that Ra secretly wanted to advocate a vegan diet, but didn't want to alter the groups, (or if you like, specifically Carla's) free will decision to eat meat, seems highly improbable to me.

(01-31-2017, 02:06 AM)anagogy Wrote: So when you actually take all these logical factors into account, you are left with only a few plausible explanations: Either: 
1) Carla's physiology was soooooo different from us "normie" humans that meat was good for her but not the rest of humanity, 
2) meat eating isn't as much against the cosmos as vegans have convinced themselves of, or 
3) it is against the unity of the cosmos, but Ra didn't think it important enough to correct them on it.

Ra Wrote:Ra: I am Ra. (...) The Orion group uses the physical examination as a means of terrifying the individual and causing it to feel the feelings of an advanced second-density being such as a laboratory animal. The sexual experiences of some are a sub-type of this experience. The intent is to demonstrate the control of the Orion entities over the Terran inhabitant.

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. We am Ra. (...) We may ask the support group to monitor the instrument as always so that in the case of the desire for the more complex proteins that which is the least distorted might be offered to the bodily complex which is indeed at this time potentially capable of greatly increased distortion.

(...)

Questioner: In the last session you mentioned least distorted complex protein in that the body complex of the instrument was capable of greatly increased distortion. Would you define the protein of which you spoke and we would like to know, increased distortion in which direction, towards health or ill-health?

Ra: I am Ra. We were, in the cautionary statement about complex protein, referring to the distortions of the animal protein which has been slaughtered and preservatives added in order to maintain the acceptability to your peoples of this non-living, physical material. It is well to attempt to find those items which are fresh and of the best quality possible in order to avoid increasing this particular entity’s distortions which may be loosely termed allergic.

(01-31-2017, 02:06 AM)anagogy Wrote: option 2) because it seems frankly apparent to me from my time on this planet, that all life feeds on life, and always has, and I think it is very very natural to the earth (but that isn't to say it can't and hasn't become disproportionately parasitical -- e.g. factory farming).
...
Also, when you think about "pre-veil" conditions, I have an extremely hard time imagining or believing that all the animal kingdom was not eating each other, even then. Again, I think it is entirely natural for animals to eat other animals -- and that includes the human animal. I mean do you think that wolves weren't eating flesh in those times? That bugs weren't eating other bugs? That all beings were partaking of plants? Did you know there are planets where there are mobile plant beings (beings such as this have been sighted in certain ET contact accounts)?  I'm sorry, but I don't believe life works that way (the way that says plants are the only morally correct food, and anything else is negatively polarizing). Eating flesh is part of the circle of life. Flesh comes in many forms -- plant and otherwise.

(01-31-2017, 02:06 AM)anagogy Wrote: (though I think there is a lot of species-ism that goes on (i.e. "plants don't cry when you kill them therefore it is better to eat them than the organisms that have evolved mobility" -- but then again, different, and lacking vocal cords and muscles, doesn't mean it has less consciousness).

(01-31-2017, 02:06 AM)anagogy Wrote: (though I think there is a lot of species-ism that goes on (i.e. "plants don't cry when you kill them therefore it is better to eat them than the organisms that have evolved mobility" -- but then again, different, and lacking vocal cords and muscles, doesn't mean it has less consciousness).

Ra Wrote:Ra: I am Ra. There are three types of second-density entities which become, shall we say, enspirited. The first is the animal. This is the most predominant. The second is the vegetable, most especially that which you call sound vibration complex “tree.” These entities are capable of giving and receiving enough love to become individualized. The third category is mineral. Occasionally a certain location, place as you may call it, becomes energized to individuality through the love it receives and gives in relationship to a third-density entity which is in relationship to it. This is the least common transition.

Quote:I've heard this idea espoused by members before, but to be honest, it doesn't really hold up to logical scrutiny for Ra to supposedly respect free will in such a bizarre way. After-all, consider the time when Don asked if the starving individuals in Africa should be allowed to keep starving since, you know, to his perceptions, a blue ray understanding hypothetically implied that at some level they chose that. Ra immediately corrected him, and said the proper course of action is that they should be fed. Ra didn't 'respect his free will chosen idea' and refuse to give him alternate information since he already had ideas about it, rather, they immediately gave the opposite answer Don expected and asked about.

If you think about it, that would be kind of an absurd stipulation if they weren't allowed to correct the distorted ideas of the channeling participants. In fact, the channeling would be immediately rendered null, void, and pointless by such an edict before it even began because if anybody had an prior opinion about anything, Ra wouldn't be able to speak about it.

There were also a few examples in the Ra material, where free will abridging information was offered by Ra with a concession towards some loss of polarity, because apparently they felt the information was more important than respecting the law of confusion (law of free will). So frankly, this idea that Ra secretly wanted to advocate a vegan diet, but didn't want to alter the groups, (or if you like, specifically Carla's) free will decision to eat meat, seems highly improbable to me.

So when you actually take all these logical factors into account, you are left with only a few plausible explanations: Either: 
1) Carla's physiology was soooooo different from us "normie" humans that meat was good for her but not the rest of humanity, 
2) meat eating isn't as much against the cosmos as vegans have convinced themselves of, or 
3) it is against the unity of the cosmos, but Ra didn't think it important enough to correct them on it.

Quote:We offer the following, not to infringe upon your free will, but because this instrument has specifically requested information as to its maintenance and the support group does so at this querying. We may suggest that the instrument has two areas of potential distortion

Quote:Questioner: In dietary matters, what would be the foods that one would include and what would be the foods that one would exclude in a general way for the most or the greatest care of one’s bodily complex?


Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, we underline and emphasize that this information is not to be understood literally but as a link or psychological nudge for the body and the mind and spirit. Thus it is the care and respect for the self that is the true thing of importance. In this light we may iterate the basic information given for this instrument’s diet.

Latwii Wrote:C: Is this chemical that you speak of the ingestion of sugars?

I am Latwii. You are correct, my brother. We could not say this without your finding for yourself of this truth.

Quote:76.22 Questioner: I had one that is totally, possibly, [of] no value. You don’t have to expand on it, but there is a crystal skull in the possession of a woman near Toronto that may be of some value in investigating these communications with Ra since I think possibly this had some origin from Ra. Can you tell me anything about that? And then, finally, is there anything that we could do to improve the contact or to make the instrument more comfortable?

Ra: I am Ra. Although your query is one which uncovers interesting material we can not answer due to the potential an answer may have for affecting your actions. The appurtenances are carefully placed and requisite care taken. We are appreciative. All is well.

Quote:I'm not just saying this to be contrarian, I'm genuinely curious how you people reconcile that, because I don't think you can really escape these conclusions if you think about this critically: 

option 1) I've never bought -- it always seemed more of a rationalization that people whose dietary ideology reviles and forbade any mention of animal products in the Ra material, and served as a means by which to lawyer themselves out of any offhanded mention of such protein being conceivably related to such a profane notion that it constituted any part in the 'proper care of the body complex'. 
option 3) doesn't make sense either considering the other times they just went ahead and supplied information contrary to the groups currently held (and already free will chosen ideas -- of which correction of false ideas is a natural part of the student/teacher relationship), and so of course I'm a proponent of 
option 2) because it seems frankly apparent to me from my time on this planet, that all life feeds on life, and always has, and I think it is very very natural to the earth (but that isn't to say it can't and hasn't become disproportionately parasitical -- e.g. factory farming). I'm not saying that veganism isn't 'higher vibrational' by the way -- perhaps it is for all I know.  (though I think there is a lot of species-ism that goes on (i.e. "plants don't cry when you kill them therefore it is better to eat them than the organisms that have evolved mobility" -- but then again, different, and lacking vocal cords and muscles, doesn't mean it has less consciousness). My concern is more centered around inclinations toward thinking one particular behavior/diet is the 'right one' and all others should be shunned because they are somehow 'wrong' -- whatever that means. I just think that concept is extremely distorted, and anytime I see any intimation of it (which I am sensing in this thread), I feel called to address it.

Quote:Also, when you think about "pre-veil" conditions, I have an extremely hard time imagining or believing that all the animal kingdom was not eating each other, even then. Again, I think it is entirely natural for animals to eat other animals -- and that includes the human animal. I mean do you think that wolves weren't eating flesh in those times? That bugs weren't eating other bugs? That all beings were partaking of plants? Did you know there are planets where there are mobile plant beings (beings such as this have been sighted in certain ET contact accounts)?  I'm sorry, but I don't believe life works that way (the way that says plants are the only morally correct food, and anything else is negatively polarizing). Eating flesh is part of the circle of life. Flesh comes in many forms -- plant and otherwise.

Quote:I only bring all this up because the rationalizations don't personally make sense to me, and never have, though I think if someone easily thrives on a vegan diet and are happy with themselves I think that is great (just as I think someone who is happy on a ketogenic diet is just fine as well). I would just be careful of falling into the trap of thinking that is what everyone is 'supposed' to do (that sort of thinking is always dangerous and inevitably leads to judgment in my opinion, despite good intentions otherwise). 

As an aside, I also have a hard time taking any Q'uo channelings as anything more than 'interesting ideas to consider' because of the sheer number of times those particular channelings have contradicted themselves. I don't care enough to dredge up all of them (one could do a search on these forums for it, there have been a few scintillating discussions about it), but there are ALOT (I chalk that up to it being 'conscious channeling' rather than any kind of deliberate obfuscation -- one of the reasons I generally steer clear of such conscious channeling -- too much distortion) That's not to say Ra never contradicted themselves either. But this is just me personally, I know many others here hold Q'uo on the same level as the Ra channelings, which I've never really understood, but each to their own.

Quote:40.13 Questioner: Then you are saying that cancer is quite easily healed mentally and is a good teaching tool because it is quite easily healed mentally and once the entity forgives the other-self at whom he is angry cancer will disappear. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. The other portion of healing has to do with forgiveness of self and a greatly heightened respect for the self. This may conveniently be expressed by taking care in dietary matters. This is quite frequently a part of the healing and forgiving process. Your basic premise is correct.

Quote:Firstly, we underline and emphasize that this information is not to be understood literally but as a link or psychological nudge for the body and the mind and spirit.

(01-31-2017, 12:53 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I mean, I'm not making up this "cannot infringe upon free will" thing. Obviously Ra has limits to what they can and cannot say. Feeding the starving children didn't abridge anyone's free will, because no one gave up what they were doing in the Ra channeling to go feed hungry orphans.

(01-31-2017, 12:53 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Telling people what they should and shouldn't eat eliminates a HUGE swath of catalyst/choice available for people. And for that example, it was still a direct response to a question of Don's, not something Ra offered freely.

(01-31-2017, 12:53 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: And Ra doesn't advocate a vegan diet. Ra advocates eating only the amount of animals proteins that one truly needs for their body complex. The reason people get upset about this is because there is a huge discrepancy between how much meat people eat and how much meat we actually need. It's cultural.

(01-31-2017, 12:53 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: And you are the one who has previously told me that they reason it's okay to eat animals and not humans is because they are lesser than humans by being trapped in a second density body.

(01-31-2017, 12:53 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Anyway, if you feel there is a sense of a "right diet" being promulgated in this thread, I think you're taking issues with what the channelings say, not how they are being presented.

(01-31-2017, 12:53 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Okay, but we evolved from chimps. Chimps very rarely eat anything other than fruit.

(01-31-2017, 12:53 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: If we evolved more closely alongside wolves, this would be a better argument, but I would still advocate that part of the shift from third to fourth density would involve a more conscious awareness of how and what we eat. The thing about animals is that the veil doesn't distort their communion with each other, even in the eating of each other. Humans have severely distorted meat and the consumption of meat. That's really the biggest problem. Ra even makes the comment about "animal protein which has been slaughtered and preservatives added in order to maintain the acceptability to your peoples of this non-living, physical material. It is well to attempt to find those items which are fresh and of the best quality possible". This is obviously a judgement by Ra that what we are eating is not optimal for our bodily complexes - at least, the way we harvest it is wrong. And again, my point was that almost all of our meat is handled this way. Most carnivores or omnivores eat meat while it's still alive. Carrion eaters, which we more closely resemble, have digestive systems meant to handle the types of pathogens that old meat creates. We have to substitute this with antibiotics, chemicals, cooking, etc.

(01-31-2017, 12:53 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: As conscious channeling, from someone who ate meat and didn't take too much care with their diet (Carla), don't you think the "distortion" would go a different way? Also, I posted the quotes in the context of the OP's request. I know you don't read Q'uo. I don't know anyone who considers Q'uo "on the same level as Ra". I see Q'uo as a companion to Ra, and the quotes perfectly acceptable and ontopic to the discussion. I understand that you disagree with them, although the quotes posted really just echo what Ra has said, too.

(01-31-2017, 12:53 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Anyway, I've seen no one in this thread advocating "one true diet". Did anyone even mention veganism in the context of channeled quotes before you went on a tirade against it?

(01-31-2017, 12:53 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: 1. Respect for your body (and subsequently, the bodies of other selves)
2. Have a positive attitude towards food
3. Listen to the body, honestly, and stop ingesting that which does it harm

Do you believe these are contradicted in the Ra material? Do you believe this is advocating "one true diet"?

(01-31-2017, 12:53 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: It is obvious to me that Ra advocates a conscious awareness while eating food, and that healing can be affected by a change in diet. This is why I feel compelled to speak out when people appear to advocate that the Ra material promises freedom for entities to consume whatever they please without any ill effects. If you have any other quotes that support this, or whatever point you're trying to make (if I'm missing it), I'd certainly be happy to hear them.

If it appears I was advocating one true diet, that is my personal bias, and I apologize. My true intentions were to highlight that there can be a spiritual link to what one eats - no, not that there "can be", but that there "is", especially for those of us who are already aware that we are balancing our mind/body/spirit complexes. And that if you begin to hone that link, and use the transformation of the mind, that these things take care of themselves.

I'll end this post the same way I did my first post, which was a request by Ra to not overthink these things critically or logically.

(01-31-2017, 07:09 AM)Nía Wrote: It is not possible for a compassionate entity who consciously faces this reality (being an illusion doesn't make the experiences less real, or less important, as you know) to be responsible for more of this type of suffering than absolutely non-avoidable. Yes, I'm being emotional there, because I have seen and felt (and heard, and smelled) that suffering innumerable times.

(02-02-2017, 09:45 PM)Minyatur Wrote: I think this is untrue. In most cases I'd agree but this is highly untrue in the case of wanderers because there will be many of them who already contain knowing better than this. This form of compassion has a threshold that is a step of light that allows you to reach a higher and purer degree of love that does not hurt itself with others but instead perceive the meaning, purpose and beauty of suffering.

(01-31-2017, 02:06 AM)anagogy Wrote: 1) Carla's physiology was soooooo different from us "normie" humans that meat was good for her but not the rest of humanity, 

Ra Wrote:Ra: I am Ra. The liquids not containing carbonation, the well-cooked vegetable which is most light and soft, the well-cooked grains, the non-fatted meat such as the fish. You may note that some recommended foodstuffs overlap allergies and sensitivities due to the juvenile rheumatoid arthritic distortions. Further, although sugar such as is in your sweetened desserts represents a potential, we may suggest that it be included at this period for aforementioned reasons.

(02-03-2017, 12:17 AM)Diana Wrote: Suffering, and observing suffering while understanding free will is one thing. It's another thing entirely to contribute to suffering.

(02-03-2017, 12:17 AM)Diana Wrote: I so totally disagree that eating meat is a service. I understand the theory of what you and others are saying. But this a service to whom, to what? Why even do it? Because you want to help the animals? Why not just cause no harm to suffering animals and let them have their free will without trying to control it, or guide them with your superior wisdom? Why is it your job to interpret, control, and be involved in the suffering of other-selves (animals) to the extent you are involved in it in this manner? 

(02-03-2017, 12:17 AM)Diana Wrote: Why not just let them be free? Why not let them have the freedom to go about their journeys, as we have, in their own way? In order to do that, you must disengage, detach from any involvement, just as Ra was so careful not to infringe upon free will.

(02-03-2017, 12:17 AM)Diana Wrote: Are you trying to say that some wanderers (and do I presume you are one?) here are so advanced they can eat meat, see the beauty in the suffering of the animals who were tortured and slaughtered, and that makes it okay to contribute to barbaric and inhumane treatment of life forms other than human? Are you going to also contribute to the torture and slaughter of humans because in a higher consciousness you perceive the meaning, purpose, and beauty of suffering? Do you not think, that perhaps, at that level of awareness, you would not be involved in the drama at all?

(02-03-2017, 10:04 AM)Minyatur Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 12:17 AM)Diana Wrote: Suffering, and observing suffering while understanding free will is one thing. It's another thing entirely to contribute to suffering.

Well yeah sure they are two different things. But so long a service cannot be provided in a conscious and balanced fashion, it will require other-selves to be in a unconscious and unbalanced state for it to be provided. Isn't that why this place is veiled to begin with?

Like I said many times on this forum, anything can be done through love and compassion with the right understanding.

(02-03-2017, 10:04 AM)Minyatur Wrote: When i sought to know why my heart feels differently about this than your own (or others'), as more unconscious I considered that to be the default normal state I should be feeling about it, I saw that it was a service I required for myself and came to distill and accept and even forgive myself to have required. Through the Law of One this distillment of my own catalysts extends in acceptance to others and how hypocrite would it be for my soul to feel it is wrong to partake in an activity I had initially required others to also provide to me?

(02-03-2017, 10:04 AM)Minyatur Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 12:17 AM)Diana Wrote: Why not just let them be free? Why not let them have the freedom to go about their journeys, as we have, in their own way? In order to do that, you must disengage, detach from any involvement, just as Ra was so careful not to infringe upon free will.

Well isn't this exactly what this is about? How is their spirit moving to a time/space of sure death and pain not their own journey? Or maybe you'd rather deny them this path and do know better what another's journey should be?

If this planet stopped providing this service, you'd probably see a lot of higher selves moving their 2D spirits to other worlds that will.

(02-03-2017, 10:04 AM)Minyatur Wrote: Well like I already said, it is a required service. So beyond what I do as an individualization, it remains sought by the Creator and will manifest in others whom I also am.

I know it'd be much freeing to stop being entangled with these energies, but that'd just be to pass on the dirty work to others strictly. In my view it's always a matter of resonance, so I can only explore why I was and still am resonant with it and will see that I am unable to carry it on once dissonant.

(02-03-2017, 10:04 AM)Minyatur Wrote: I'd venture to say altogether that the souls who struggle the most with this are the ones who evolved through a peaceful and harmonious 2D where they have experienced freedom and being invested into with love, whereas the ones who don't find much struggle in this, of whom many are quite the loving souls, are the ones who experienced a similar 2D, distilled it and healed from it.

(02-01-2017, 04:22 AM)anagogy Wrote: The point of bringing that particular point up was that Ra corrected a mistaken assumption inherent in the question. The question is not significantly different from asking what dietary nutrients should be taken into the body complex for optimal health. The whole reason I presume you and Nia brought up free will in regards to the diet question posed to Ra was, to my understanding, because you believe Ra wanted to tell them to eat vegan, but was restrained by the free will of the question. So whether Ra offered it freely or not, doesn't really make a difference from my perspective. It still is a case in point example of Ra offering a correction of a mistaken assumption (i.e. they weren't limited to working with the presumption inherent in the question in regard to the information they could then distribute -- that would be a crippling limitation on teacher/student communication).

(02-03-2017, 01:41 PM)Diana Wrote:

(02-01-2017, 04:22 AM)anagogy Wrote: The point of bringing that particular point up was that Ra corrected a mistaken assumption inherent in the question. The question is not significantly different from asking what dietary nutrients should be taken into the body complex for optimal health. The whole reason I presume you and Nia brought up free will in regards to the diet question posed to Ra was, to my understanding, because you believe Ra wanted to tell them to eat vegan, but was restrained by the free will of the question. So whether Ra offered it freely or not, doesn't really make a difference from my perspective. It still is a case in point example of Ra offering a correction of a mistaken assumption (i.e. they weren't limited to working with the presumption inherent in the question in regard to the information they could then distribute -- that would be a crippling limitation on teacher/student communication).

Let's not forget that Carla was the channel. Carla had distortions as we all do. Ra was channeled through her paradigms/filters. Whatever information we got from Ra came through her. She ate fast-food burgers, and had "beliefs" about what foods were "good" for her. I won't judge that, but I see that as a paradigm....

(02-03-2017, 01:12 PM)Diana Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 10:04 AM)Minyatur Wrote: Well yeah sure they are two different things. But so long a service cannot be provided in a conscious and balanced fashion, it will require other-selves to be in a unconscious and unbalanced state for it to be provided. Isn't that why this place is veiled to begin with?

Like I said many times on this forum, anything can be done through love and compassion with the right understanding.

Providing service in a conscious and balanced fashion is like trying to control another's catalyst. Any being will find the catalyst needed. You do not have to provide it. If you are wanting to do that, it is a catalyst for you.

Consider Ra. They did "answer the call." But they did absolutely nothing but offer the sort of support that requires the recipient to do all the work. They didn't guide us to the slaughter, kill us, and eat us. They simply put forth information and sent love with no free will infringement. Regarding animals—feed them if they're starving (from Ra), send them love.

By acting on your imagined, intuited, or otherwise guessed-at reasons for offering this service, you are becoming karmically entangled with the whole mess by seeking to control another's evolution. It reminds me of the Christian Jesus, taking sins away from the masses, denying them the opportunity to figure it out for themselves and own their own progress.

(02-03-2017, 01:12 PM)Diana Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 10:04 AM)Minyatur Wrote: When i sought to know why my heart feels differently about this than your own (or others'), as more unconscious I considered that to be the default normal state I should be feeling about it, I saw that it was a service I required for myself and came to distill and accept and even forgive myself to have required. Through the Law of One this distillment of my own catalysts extends in acceptance to others and how hypocrite would it be for my soul to feel it is wrong to partake in an activity I had initially required others to also provide to me?

Okay. So this is your catalyst. It's wonderful you can forgive yourself. But this derives from you. Let's not pretend it's the higher consciousness view, where suffering is seen as beautiful (I'm not denying that concept), and because of that, choices to contribute to suffering are more evolved than choices not to.

(02-03-2017, 01:12 PM)Diana Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 10:04 AM)Minyatur Wrote: Well isn't this exactly what this is about? How is their spirit moving to a time/space of sure death and pain not their own journey? Or maybe you'd rather deny them this path and do know better what another's journey should be?

If this planet stopped providing this service, you'd probably see a lot of higher selves moving their 2D spirits to other worlds that will.

So? That may be true, and it may not be. The question always is, what do YOU want to do. Not: Okay, some people need to be tortured and murdered so I will provide that service. Do you not see the flawed logic here?

(02-03-2017, 01:12 PM)Diana Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 10:04 AM)Minyatur Wrote: Well like I already said, it is a required service. So beyond what I do as an individualization, it remains sought by the Creator and will manifest in others whom I also am.

I know it'd be much freeing to stop being entangled with these energies, but that'd just be to pass on the dirty work to others strictly. In my view it's always a matter of resonance, so I can only explore why I was and still am resonant with it and will see that I am unable to carry it on once dissonant.

There is no reason at all to do "the dirty work." This sounds like a messiah complex to me. Or simply a justification to do something unnecessary. It's something you are working out in your own journey for whatever reasons.

Minyatur, I love your philosophical mind. I don't mean to single you out, but I see posting here as a responsibility beyond my own personal reasons. There are many, many people who come here to read. This is why I challenge the concept that eating animals is an advanced and higher consciousness sort of service. In doing so, it is not my intention to control what others think, rather, as part of a collective community here, I offer my individual views as a part of that whole.

(02-03-2017, 01:12 PM)Diana Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 10:04 AM)Minyatur Wrote: I'd venture to say altogether that the souls who struggle the most with this are the ones who evolved through a peaceful and harmonious 2D where they have experienced freedom and being invested into with love, whereas the ones who don't find much struggle in this, of whom many are quite the loving souls, are the ones who experienced a similar 2D, distilled it and healed from it.

This is a very simplistic supposition. Though it's not out of the realm of possibilities. But where does that leave us in terms of evolving as we are all doing whether we know it or not?

Doing service here, by enmeshing one's self in the karmic goings-on, seems fine at the level of the karmic mess here. Beyond that, one would not be directly involved as one would have moved past it. This is my opinion. Detachment, not attachment, in my experience is the higher consciousness state. That is not to say detachment is without love, just the opposite; detachment is a precursor to unconditional love while attachment demands conditional love in my view.

(02-03-2017, 05:25 AM)Nía Wrote: Maybe that's not as unlikely as it might seem (her physiology having been different), as this suggestion doesn't seem to be suited too well for 'the rest of humanity':

Ra Wrote:Ra: I am Ra. The liquids not containing carbonation, the well-cooked vegetable which is most light and soft, the well-cooked grains, the non-fatted meat such as the fish. You may note that some recommended foodstuffs overlap allergies and sensitivities due to the juvenile rheumatoid arthritic distortions. Further, although sugar such as is in your sweetened desserts represents a potential, we may suggest that it be included at this period for aforementioned reasons.

Plus, there was much at stake if the contact could not continue due to health reasons on Carla's side.

(02-03-2017, 01:41 PM)Diana Wrote: I think it's presumptuous to say Jade and Nia thought Ra wanted to tell Carla to be vegan, and rather insulting. My perception is that they are both more intelligent and open-mined than that.

(02-03-2017, 01:41 PM)Diana Wrote: Let's not forget that Carla was the channel. Carla had distortions as we all do. Ra was channeled through her paradigms/filters. Whatever information we got from Ra came through her.

Quote:21.1 Questioner: I have a couple of questions I don’t want to forget to ask in this period. I’ll ask them first.

The first question is: Would the future content of this book be affected in any way if the instrument reads the material we have already obtained?

Ra: I am Ra. The future, as you measure in time/space, communications which we offer through this instrument have no connection with the instrument’s mind complex. This is due to two things: first, the fidelity of the instrument in dedicating its will to the service of the Infinite Creator; secondly, the distortion/understanding of our social memory complex that the most efficient way to communicate material with as little distortion as possible, given the necessity of the use of sound vibration complexes, is to remove the conscious mind complex from the spirit/mind/body complex so that we may communicate without reference to any instrument orientation.

21.2 Questioner: A little appendage to this. Do you use your vocabulary or the instrument’s vocabulary to communicate with us?

Ra: I am Ra. We use the vocabulary of the language with which you are familiar. This is not the instrument’s vocabulary. However, this particular mind/body/spirit complex retains the use of a sufficiently large number of sound vibration complexes that the distinction is often without any importance.

(02-03-2017, 01:41 PM)Diana Wrote: She ate fast-food burgers, and had "beliefs" about what foods were "good" for her. I won't judge that, but I see that as a paradigm.