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Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - Seeker of the One - 01-20-2017
Where do we go between incarnations or let's say between harvest to another density? Also, do we incarnate in 4th density and above only once per density unlike 3rd density where we can incarnate multiple times?
I think this is a complex concept since I never seen Ra talking about it and I think they imply all spirits belong to some density in the creation, therefore if entity exists it might occupy some density for sure. What about internal planes of Earth? Is it astral 3rd density or what?
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - APeacefulWarrior - 01-20-2017
It's hard to say, since Ra never really (afaik) explained the "mechanisms" so to speak that separate the densities and, specifically, how the harvest bridges them. Particularly since Ra references self-harvesting at a few points, suggesting that it's also possible for an entity to spontaneously change densities without outside intervention from those maintaining the harvests.
But in a broad sense, I believe the "place" we go is basically the sort of heaven-ish realm depicted in works like What Dreams May Come. A place where mind/will can create structures, illusions, environments, etc to suit its whims, but without any permanence. I believe it's common to all (non-incarnated) densities from 3D-6D, but with entities having more access to more... features? I guess... of that realm depending on their own density level. Offhand, I suspect it's all so metaphysical and lacking in 3D analogies that there was no good way for him to communicate the concepts. He mentioned a few times that 5D and 6D experience is so different from 3D life that it's nearly impossible to talk about in human words.
I also seem to recall Ra saying something to the effect that "visiting" another high-density entity is in some ways like traveling into a world of their creation, which is a reflection of their own mental state / vibrations. A sort of self-as-environment. But I don't remember enough keywords to dig up that passage, if I'm remembering it correctly.
But of course, the difficulty in talking about any of this is we're talking about a realm of pure energy, so to speak, where there really are not analogs to place, direction, or other three-dimensional concepts. Or if there are, it's a purely self-imposed restriction rather than any natural feature of the place. Overall, though, I don't know if Ra really gave enough info on the subject to draw too many conclusions. I've heard Seth may have covered the topic in more detail, but I haven't delved into his talks too deeply.
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - Infinite Unity - 01-20-2017
I agree largely with you peaceful. "The form maker", is a phrase you can search for, and it will lead you to a portion of the material. Where Ra speaks briefly about what you ask here.
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - Jade - 01-20-2017
Hi Seeker of One, I recommend Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls by Michael Newton. He does "between life regression" and it's extremely fascinating/enlightening.
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - anagogy - 01-20-2017
(01-20-2017, 06:02 AM)Seeker of the One Wrote: Where do we go between incarnations or let's say between harvest to another density? Also, do we incarnate in 4th density and above only once per density unlike 3rd density where we can incarnate multiple times?
There are multiple incarnations in higher densities.
(01-20-2017, 06:02 AM)Seeker of the One Wrote: I think this is a complex concept since I never seen Ra talking about it and I think they imply all spirits belong to some density in the creation, therefore if entity exists it might occupy some density for sure. What about internal planes of Earth? Is it astral 3rd density or what?
Let me offer you an image. Picture your life and the particular circumstances of your life. Now picture someone else's life on the other side of a earth (an undiscovered tribe for example, that has never been exposed to technology). Imagine the extreme variance in experience between your life and theirs. Consider that there is an amazing array of different experiences in just the 3rd density context alone. Now picture an animal, like say an eagle, and imagine how different its experience is from yours, or a fish, and imagine how different its life is from yours. Now imagine a rockface, and imagine what a rock face's experience must be like, or even the air that surrounds it, what must its experience be like? And how wonderfully different and various they all are. Now consider that all of these things I described, all of these differences are all differences contained by the same physical plane of existence. That much variety, in just one plane of existence. Now understand that all the other subtle planes that gradually move up into higher and higher vibrations and gradations of time/space, contain that exact same amount of variety. And more! :exclamation:
So in the same way that there are a multitude of densities mixing together in our physical plane, there are a multitude of densities mixing in the other planes, such as the astral realm, the devachanic realm, and the causal and buddhic realm. And their experiences of those realms are even more varied and multitudinous than the differing experiences of the various inhabitants of the physical realm. It is so diverse that it is probably impossible to fully wrap our minds around. But if you are wondering if there was some kind of separation between the astral realm of 3rd density and the astral realm of 2nd density or 4th density, the answer is no, there isn't. Though, the nature of time/space is such that if your consciousness was significantly different from another entity, you would naturally be separated from their experience to the exact same degree as the vibrational difference between you. So you might all occupy the same realm, but you wouldn't be in the same space, in the same way that you and a fish are different enough that you don't occupy the same physical space (they live in the water, you live on the land). The spiritual/mental differences translate into separated physical spaces, if you want to think of it in those terms. This is also true of the physical plane, though due to the extreme level of distortion, it is far less apparent.
And to answer your corollary question: where we go after death is simply a matter of vibration, so I can speak in general (with caveat that there are always exceptions) and say a native 3rd density entity will end up on the middle astral, a 4th density will end up on the higher astral, a 2nd density being will end up on the lower astral, a 1st density being stays on the physical plane, because they haven't penetrated a high enough vibration to experience etherea yet. A 5th density being ends up on the devachanic plane, a sixth density ends up on the causal plane, and 7th density is seated on the buddhic plane. But for most of the higher densities, they aren't terribly separated from time/space during their space/time experiences so the end of physical incarnation is more akin to someone taking off a pair of pants at the end of the day and taking a nap, and putting on another pair when they get up in the morning.
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - AnthroHeart - 01-20-2017
Isn't there the Adi plane? I heard that was the highest.
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - anagogy - 01-20-2017
(01-20-2017, 01:32 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: Isn't there the Adi plane? I heard that was the highest.
An alternative name for the Buddhic imo.
But we don't have to use the occult names. We know that, whatever the heck it is called, the highest is violet ray.
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - Ashim - 01-20-2017
Something like this, or a bit worse...
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - sjel - 01-20-2017
I wonder what is the point of multiple incarnations in higher densities? If at that level one can change one's form at will. Why the need to leave the incarnated body at all if time/space and space/time are so integrated there?
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - Minyatur - 01-20-2017
(01-20-2017, 05:25 PM)sjel Wrote: I wonder what is the point of multiple incarnations in higher densities? If at that level one can change one's form at will. Why the need to leave the incarnated body at all if time/space and space/time are so integrated there?
This is because you can only manifest through a sub-Logoi as a mind/body/spirit complex, incarnation allows you to explore yourself through different ones under different archetypes which offer myriads of different manifestations of your essence.
I think higher densities contain their own space/time time/space aspects. As above so below.
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - Verum Occultum - 01-20-2017
(01-20-2017, 06:02 AM)Seeker of the One Wrote: Also, do we incarnate in 4th density and above only once per density unlike 3rd density where we can incarnate multiple times?
Quote:43.12 Questioner: Then, is there a time/space— Are there multiple incarnations in fourth density with time/space experiences between incarnations?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - AnthroHeart - 01-20-2017
(01-20-2017, 01:43 PM)anagogy Wrote:(01-20-2017, 01:32 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: Isn't there the Adi plane? I heard that was the highest.
An alternative name for the Buddhic imo.
But we don't have to use the occult names. We know that, whatever the heck it is called, the highest is violet ray.
Is the monad the same as the godhead?
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - Cyclops - 01-20-2017
(01-20-2017, 06:31 PM)Verum Occultum Wrote:(01-20-2017, 06:02 AM)Seeker of the One Wrote: Also, do we incarnate in 4th density and above only once per density unlike 3rd density where we can incarnate multiple times?
Quote:43.12 Questioner: Then, is there a time/space— Are there multiple incarnations in fourth density with time/space experiences between incarnations?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.
I believe this post above is the answer, and to expand on it with some more quotes about incarnating in third density:
Quote:6 Questioner: As an entity goes through the death process in third density and finds itself in time/space, it finds itself in a different set of circumstances. Would you please describe the properties or circumstances of time/space and then the process of healing of incarnative experiences that some entities encounter?
Ra: I am Ra. Although this query is difficult to answer adequately due to the limitations of your space/time sound vibration complexes, we shall respond to the best of our ability.
The hallmark of time/space is the inequity between time and space. In your space/time the spatial orientation of material causes a tangible framework for illusion. In time/space the inequity is upon the shoulders of that property known to you as time. This property renders entities and experiences intangible in a relative sense. In your framework each particle or core vibration moves at a velocity which approaches what you call the speed of light from the direction of supraluminal velocities.
Thus the time/space or metaphysical experience is that which is very finely tuned and, although an analog of space/time, lacking in its tangible characteristics. In these metaphysical planes there is a great deal of what you call time which is used to review and re-review the biases and learn/teachings of a prior, as you would call it, space/time incarnation.
The extreme fluidity of these regions makes it possible for much to be penetrated which must needs be absorbed before the process of healing of an entity may be accomplished. Each entity is located in a somewhat immobile state much as you are located in space/time in a somewhat immobile state in time. In this immobile space the entity has been placed by the form-maker and higher self so that it may be in the proper configuration for learn/teaching that which it has received in the space/time incarnation.
Depending upon this time/space locus there will be certain helpers which assist in this healing process. The process involves seeing in full the experience, seeing it against the backdrop of the mind/body/spirit complex total experience, forgiving the self for all missteps as regards the missed guideposts during the incarnation and, finally, the careful assessment of the next necessities for learning. This is done entirely by the higher self until an entity has become conscious in space/time of the process and means of spiritual evolution at which time the entity will consciously take part in all decisions.
Quote:Ra: I am Ra. No portion of the Creator audits the course, to use your experiential terms. Each incarnation is intended to be a course in the Creator knowing Itself. A review or, shall we say, to continue the metaphor, each test is an integral portion of the process of the Creator knowing Itself. Each incarnation will end with such a test. This is so that the portion of the Creator may assimilate the experiences in yellow-ray, physical third density, may evaluate the biases gained, and may then choose, either by means of automatically provided aid or by the self, the conditions of the next incarnation.
Quote:Questioner: One thing I don’t understand is why, if there was no veil, that the review of incarnation after the incarnation would help the process since it seems to me that the entity should already be aware of what was happening. Possibly this has to do with the nature of space/time and time/space. Could you clear that up, please?
Ra: I am Ra. It is true that the nature of time/space is such that a lifetime may be seen whole as a book or record, the pages studied, riffled through, and re-read. However, the value of review is that of the testing as opposed to the studying. At the testing, when the test is true, the distillations of all study are made clear.
During the process of study, which you may call the incarnation, regardless of an entity’s awareness of the process taking place, the material is diffused and over-attention is almost inevitably placed upon detail.
The testing upon the cessation of the incarnative state is not that testing which involves the correct memorization of many details. This testing is, rather, the observing of self by self, often with aid as we have said. In this observation one sees the sum of all the detailed study; that being an attitude or complex of attitudes which bias the consciousness of the mind/body/spirit.
Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The process in space/time of the forgiveness and acceptance is much like that in time/space in that the qualities of the process are analogous. However, while in space/time it is not possible to determine the course of events beyond the incarnation but only to correct present imbalances. In time/space, upon the other hand, it is not possible to correct any unbalanced actions but rather to perceive the imbalances and thusly forgive the self for that which is.
The decisions then are made to set up the possibility/probabilities of correcting these imbalances in what you call future space/time experiences. The advantage of time/space is that of the fluidity of the grand overview. The advantage of space/time is that, working in darkness with a tiny candle, one may correct imbalances.
Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The Logos creates all densities. Your question was unclear. However, we shall state the Logos does create both the space/time densities and the accompanying time/space densities.
Quote:43.13 Questioner: How long is a cycle of experience in fourth density in our years?
Ra: The cycle of experience is approximately 30 million of your years if the entities are not capable of being harvested sooner. There is in this density a harvest which is completely the function of the readiness of the social memory complex. It is not structured as is your own, for it deals with a more transparent distortion of the One Infinite Creator.
Quote:43.11 Questioner: What is the… can you even state the average lifespan in the fourth density of space/time incarnation?
Ra: I am Ra. The space/time incarnation typical of harmonious fourth density is approximately 90,000 of your years as you measure time.
There is more info about the nature of time/space which is very interesting you can look that up not only in the Ra material but the L/L transcripts in general. My understanding based on the Ra material/transcripts is that entities incarnate in space/time and do work, discarnate in time/space and review between incarnations and reincarnate continuously until the end stages of a cycle, (3D is said to have a 75000 year major cycle, and 2 minor cycles of 25,000 ). This framework seems to repeat for all the densities but with different timescales and criteria. Furthermore, wanderers are said to be able to enter at any point during a 3D cycle and may leave back to their density only if they do not become karmically bound and generally at harvest time i.e, a positive wanderer of 6d would be bound to 3d if once in 3d they harvest negative, or do not gain polarity at all and repeat 3d. Some anomalies would be contact with intelligent infinity which allow a being a choice to instantly harvest or not. My memory/summary could be wrong on some points of course.
anagogy's post is also interesting to me, your position not only depends on space/time or time/space, but there are inner/outer planes, and the densities can be said to be overlapping in strange ways as anagogy mentioned.
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - anagogy - 01-21-2017
(01-20-2017, 06:53 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: Is the monad the same as the godhead?
It really depends on what occultist you are talking to. On the tree of life, which I am a student of, the "monad" in many gnostic teachings on kabbalah is the triad of chesed, gevurah, and tiphereth, whereas the "godhead" or "Logos" would be more correlated with the "supernal triad" of kether, chochma, and binah. So monad, in this context, would be synonymous with 4th density in my view because that is what that particular relationship, or triage, points to (in my humble academic occultist opinion). This is different from merely specifying a particular plane of existence (like say the astral or physical or devachanic), this is more a delineation of an actual density (which connotes a mind/body/spirit relationship rather than simple energy dynamic that a ray would articulate). On the tree of life, it is all about relationships.
But there are other occultists, who use monad more in the way you were asking, as another name for the Logos. So again, it really depends who you ask, and how they define their terms. Unfortunately there is no universally agreed syntax among occultists, so a lot of research of this nature ends up being a frustrating affair.
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - Seeker of the One - 01-21-2017
What is the purpose of multiple incarnations in 4th density then? If there is no veil of forgetfulness in 4th density, so that entity can progress freely and works towards its goal of further ultimate polarization. Why "die" and reincarnate?
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - Ashim - 01-21-2017
(01-21-2017, 06:26 AM)Seeker of the One Wrote: What is the purpose of multiple incarnations in 4th density then? If there is no veil of forgetfulness in 4th density, so that entity can progress freely and works towards its goal of further ultimate polarization. Why "die" and reincarnate?
It's more like departing and re-entering a dream. You do this almost every night, whilst reconfiguring your energy patterns.
"Death" is only 'real' if you believe it to be so.
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - Cyclops - 01-21-2017
(01-21-2017, 06:26 AM)Seeker of the One Wrote: What is the purpose of multiple incarnations in 4th density then? If there is no veil of forgetfulness in 4th density, so that entity can progress freely and works towards its goal of further ultimate polarization. Why "die" and reincarnate?
Quote:6 Questioner: Thank you. That cleared it up very well. A very important point. Can you tell me how positive and negative polarizations in fourth and fifth density are used to cause work in consciousness?
Ra: I am Ra. There is very little work in consciousness in fourth and in fifth densities compared to the work done in third density. The work that is accomplished in positive fourth is that work whereby the positive social memory complex, having, through slow stages, harmoniously integrated itself, goes forth to aid those of less positive orientation which seek their aid. Thus their service is their work and through this dynamic between the societal self and the other-self which is the object of love, greater and greater intensities of understanding or compassion are attained. This intensity continues until the appropriate intensity of the light may be welcomed. This is fourth-density harvest.
Within fourth-density positive there are minor amounts of catalyst of a spiritual and mental complex distortion. This occurs during the process of harmonizing to the extent of forming the social memory complex. This causes some small catalyst and work to occur, but the great work of fourth density lies in the contact betwixt the societal self and less polarized other-self.
In fourth-density negative much work is accomplished during the fighting for position which precedes the period of the social memory complex. There are opportunities to polarize negatively by control of other-selves. During the social memory complex period of fourth-density negative the situation is the same. The work takes place through the societal reaching out to less polarized other-self in order to aid in negative polarization.
Quote:To give this in your terms is misleading for there are, shall we say, visual aids or training aids available in fourth density which automatically aid the entity in polarization while cutting down extremely upon the quick effect of catalyst. Thus the density above yours must take up more space/time.
The percentage of service to others of positively oriented entities will harmoniously approach 98% in intention. The qualifications for fifth density, however, involve understanding. This then, becomes the primary qualification for graduation from fourth to fifth density. To achieve this graduation the entity must be able to understand the actions, the movements, and the dance. There is no percentage describable which measures this understanding. It is a measure of efficiency of perception. It may be measured by light. The ability to love, accept, and use a certain intensity of light thus creates the requirement for both positive and negative fourth to fifth harvesting.
Quote:The densities beyond your own give the minimally balanced individual much time/space and space/time with which to continue to refine these inner balances.
Quote:The fourth, fifth, and sixth densities are those refining the higher energy centers. The seventh density is a density of completion and the turning towards timelessness or foreverness.
Quote:The intensity of fourth density is that of the refining of the rough-hewn sculpture. This is, indeed, in its own way, quite intense causing the mind/body/spirit complex to move ever inward and onward in its quest for fuller expression. However, in third density the statue is forged in the fire. This is a type of intensity which is not the property of fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh densities.
Quote:Our rituals, as you may call them, are an infinitely subtle continuation of the balancing processes which you are now beginning to experience.
Quote:Even when the veil of forgetting is lifted, even when you ascend into densities which are full of light, yet still that spirit is stubbornly unknown, and layers of misinformation and false patterning will fall away as the densities roll, and we find this still to be true with our selves. We find we still peel away another layer and another layer of that deception of spirit which is part and parcel of the situation which we all enjoy as part of the Creator. It is not that the Creator intends to deceive. It is not that the light means to be false. It is that there is so much of untold riches to the infinite Creator that It is not all articulated. There is much still for the Creator to know about Itself. And yet that seeking is a slow, slow process.
Best I could do, it is said all densities have space/time and a time/space component as well, it seems that even when a veil is lifted an entity doesn't simply understand and know everything, maybe there is just a realization of a connection to the creator and oneness at the most basic level but it is implied that the work continues, and new lessons must be learned in incarnations which further have to be chewed on and digested in time/space between incarnations, there might be more information about this that I haven't found.
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - Infinite - 01-21-2017
According to the esoteric tradition:
After death occurs the disintegration of the lower subtle bodies (etheric, astral and mental). The time and manner in which these other "deaths" occur depends of the entity's catalysis in life.
In the post-mortem period the remembrance of the events of life happens.
The more evolved the entity the less times it will pass on the astral and mental planes. The ideal is a rapid disintegration of vehicles and return to the causal body. But as we know, many need to undergo a healing process and are trapped in dense dimensions of the astral plane.
Peace, love and light.
RE: Where do our spirits go between incarnations and densities? - anagogy - 01-21-2017
(01-21-2017, 06:26 AM)Seeker of the One Wrote: What is the purpose of multiple incarnations in 4th density then? If there is no veil of forgetfulness in 4th density, so that entity can progress freely and works towards its goal of further ultimate polarization. Why "die" and reincarnate?
For much the same reason that we reincarnate in 3rd density. To experience life in different bodies. It gives one a different nuance of experience. A slightly different vantage point. Beyond 4th density, you can more or less manifest and demanifest the physical form at will though, so I guess you could think of those as rapid incarnations.