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Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - VanAlioSaldo - 04-22-2015
So I'm going to just get this out there. First thread, I have read the guidelines but I have an odd habit of overstepping things at times slightly so if this is in the wrong area, redirect me.
Anywhooo. Greetings, I'm going to say an interpretation of a few sentences that in their correct context, and proper perspective taken and observed, may help us all put our Mind Complex's together to understand perhaps one, maybe, Real, in terms of a bigger picture surrounding the One Infinite Creator, quality! I think there is one quality that is true and real besides the Infinite Creator, and all of us by extension. I am not positing that there is a separation above the Mystery-Clad Creator, but rather that there must be an origin. I first had a thought when I was reading through the sessions asking about Intelligent Infinity and Intelligent Energy, but Ra then referred to neither as being separate from each other. The only way for that would be via Simultaneity. Which Ra gives some commentary on. I will provide quotes now with bold sentences to aid.
Ra Wrote:27.6 Questioner: I’d like to expand a little on the concept of work. In Newtonian physics [the] concept of work is what we call a force which moves through space, it’s the product of force and distance as we measure it. I’m assuming that the work of which you speak is a much broader term including possibly work in consciousness. Am I correct?The first thing I wondered was simply, how was it inevitable? I didn't really look back at that question until a few months later when I was rereading the Ra Material.
Ra: I am Ra. As we use this term it is universal in application. Intelligent infinity has a rhythm or flow as of a giant heart beginning with the central sun as you would think or conceive of this, the presence of the flow inevitable as a tide of beingness without polarity, without finity; the vast and silent all beating outward, outward, focusing outward and inward until the focuses are complete. The intelligence or consciousness of foci have reached a state where their, shall we say, spiritual nature or mass calls them inward, inward, inward until all is coalesced. This is the rhythm of reality as you spoke.
Ra Wrote:27.7 Questioner: Now I think I have extracted an important point from this in that in intelligent infinity we have work without polarity, or a potential difference does not have to exist. Is this correct?Here Ra calls Intelligent Infinity 'Being Itself', but also says from it 'appears' a potential. I imagine there are hard-to-figure mechanisms to this that we might not be physically (by the physical brain) capable of comprehending but I think the most infinitesimal manner of simply how it can even Be may help in possible plumbing those concepts.
Ra: I am Ra. There is no difference, potential or kinetic, in unity. The basic rhythms of intelligent infinity are totally without distortion of any kind. The rhythms are clothed in mystery, for they are being itself. From this undistorted unity, however, appears a potential in relation to intelligent energy.
In this way you may observe the term [Work] to be somewhat two-sided, one use of the term, that being as the undistorted unity, being without any kinetic or potential side. The other application of this term, which we use undifferentiatedly for lack of other term in the sense of the vast potential tapped into by foci or focuses of energy, we call intelligent energy.
Ra Wrote:27.8 Questioner: Now, I understand that the first distortion of intelligent infinity is the distortion of what we call free will. Can you give me a definition of this distortion?The above states that intelligent infinity, while being inevitable, is the apparent undistorted unity of being. As Ra previously said, it is Being Itself. ...So then, what IS that being? The first distortion grants Free Will, so what was going on before that? The unknown mechanisms actually aren't too much of a concern to me for I do imagine the Human Brain alone couldn't comprehend it, however... The substance or essence of this Being Itself. What exactly is the creation made up of? If there is no time and no space, but only unity. What comprises the Intelligence? What comprises the Infinity? Is there a substance or a concept to this apparent conceptual substance of Intelligent Energy? (Wow this is hard) Must I invent a word for this...? Uhh. Plenum Material... I'll call it, the Paradoxance, like... Paradox Substance. Because as my main focus is about to begin. If the One Infinite Creator occurred simultaneously with the Original Thought, then what was that beforeness of foreverness that must inevitably be possible through the seeming finality of the Way of Simultaneity, the paradoxical broken/fixed way of possibility that within infinity is possible that Ra says both IS and IS NOT Truly Simultaneous, which Simultaneity paradoxically can allow this within a United Infinite Creation...
Ra: I am Ra. In this distortion of the Law of One it is recognized that the Creator will know Itself.
Simultaneity, by what I hope is agreeable logic, must then coexist alongside Infinity within Unity and be a comprising part of our...Being. I guess I'm trying to say, what if the OIC is the Micro 'Spark' or a 'Focal Point' (as we are referred to), to the Macro Paradoxance of Simultaneous Infinite Unity? I'll call it. Infinium. I'm looking further down the rabbit hole here, everyone. Come! Look with me! Or don't, it might get scary.
What is the Infinium that birthed our infinity, our unity, and our simultaneity? Well, before that, some more stuff on simultaneity since it's a hard metaphysical concept to fully comprehend.
Ra Wrote:36.4 Questioner: Do I understand from this then that the higher self or Oversoul may break down into numerous units if the experience is required to what we would call simultaneously experience different types of catalyst and then oversee these experiences?Ra seems to indicate True Simultaneity is apparent.
Ra: I am Ra. This is a statement we cannot say to be correct or incorrect due to the confusions of what you call time. True simultaneity is available only when all things are seen to be occurring at once. This overshadows the concept of which you speak. The concept of various parts of the being living experiences of varying natures simultaneously is not precisely accurate due to your understanding that this would indicate that this was occurring with true simultaneity. This is not the case. (this is in context towards Don's question and speaks of the Higher Self, not of Existence in general.)
The case is from universe to universe and parallel existences can then be programmed by the Higher Self, given the information available from the mind/body/spirit complex totality regarding the probability/possibility vortices at any crux.
Ra Wrote:36.5 Questioner: Could you give an example of an entity, possibly one from our historical past, possibly any entity that you might choose if you don’t wish to name one, and give an example of how this type of programming by the higher self would then bring about the education through parallel experiences please?Perfect explanation of how Simultaneity can provide both True and not True Simultaneity within a creation of simultaneity. In this case, the Higher Self paradoxically coexists with each of it's selves, but it works on them in a linear type fashion at least in regards to multiple occurring time continuums at seemingly different 'Moments' that can't be traced between continuums, specifically because we have no logical means of figuring that out. (This isn't Doctor Who...Sadly.)
Ra: I am Ra. Perhaps the simplest example of this apparent simultaneity of existence of two selves, which are in truth one self at the same time/space, is this: the Oversoul, as you call it, or Higher Self, seems to exist simultaneously with the mind/body/spirit complex which it aids. This is not actually simultaneous, for the Higher Self is moving to the mind/body/spirit complex as needed from a position in development of the entity which would be considered in the future of this entity.
Ra Wrote:70.9 Questioner: I think I have an erroneous concept of the mind/body/spirit complex, for instance, that I represent here in this density and my higher self. The concept probably comes from my concept of space and time. I am going to try to unscramble it. The way I see it right now is that I am existing in two different locations, here and in mid-sixth density, simultaneously. Is this correct?Further speaks of Simultaneity.
Ra: I am Ra. You are existing at all levels simultaneously. It is specifically correct that your higher self is you in mid-sixth density and, in your way of measuring what you know of as time, your higher self is your self in your future.
Ra Wrote:70.11 Questioner: Would an analogy for this situation be that the individual’s higher self is manipulating to some extent, shall I say, the mind/body/spirit complex that is its analog, you might say, to move it through the lower densities for purposes of gaining experience and then finally transferring that experience or amalgamating it, you might say, in mid-sixth density with the higher self?Ra basically says True Simultaneity exists, but doesn't seem to specify on the seeming nature of that simultaneity.
Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The Higher Self does not manipulate its past selves. It protects when possible and guides when asked, but the force of free will is paramount. The seeming contradictions of determinism and free will melt when it is accepted that there is such a thing as true simultaneity. The Higher Self is the end result of all the development experienced by the mind/body/spirit complex to that point.
Ra Wrote:70.12 Questioner: Then what we are looking at is a long path of experience through the densities up to mid-sixth density which are a function totally of free will and result in the awareness of the higher self in mid-sixth density, but since time is illusory and there is a, shall I say, unification of time and space or an eradication of what we think of as time, then, all of this experience that results in the higher self, the cause of evolvement through the densities, is existing while the evolvement takes place, since it’s all simultaneous. Is this correct?Important metaphor made here. Ra refers to the simultaneous occurrence of Being in regards to being distorted and focused into individualized Beingness's (Male/Female occurrence, Undistorted Being/Distorted Beingness or Actuality/Reality). In this instance, the Time Lines, or Time Continuums of the other simultaneously occurring Beingness's are all occurring in a fashion somewhat similar to being spaced apart and separated, with their own existences happening. No different from My Life, suddenly peering at Your Life, and perceiving two different-similar Lives happening at different times but at the same time.
Ra: I am Ra. We refrain from speaking of correctness due to our understanding of the immense difficulty of absorbing the concepts of metaphysical existence. In time/space, which is precisely as much of your self as is space/time, all times are simultaneous just as, in your geography, your cities and villages are all functioning, bustling, and alive with entities going about their business at once. So it is in time/space with the self.
When you haven't visited your Sister or Brother in months, then finally do. It's sometimes possibly like going into a different Universe when you see how much has happened and changed in only a few months for them, whereas for you relatively few things have changed significantly. As a much easier comparison. (I know Ra mentions that comparisons are not favorable, I'm not interacting actively though so it seems necessary.)
Ra Wrote:82.6 Questioner: That’s what I thought you might say. Am I correct in assuming that at the beginning of this octave, out of what I would call a void of space, the seeds of an infinite number of galactic systems such as the Milky Way Galaxy appeared and grew in spiral fashion simultaneously?I'll aid Ra, the Universe is a Fractal by Design, apply this concept to the above quote portion italicized. As for the remainder, further information on Simultaneity. As further demonstrated by the ironically clear misunderstanding from the 3D perspective of a Plenum as being the exact opposite. Oh how happy I am that we are Loved and not judged, for we must at times appear beautifully confused in our misunderstandings of seemingly In-Plain-Sight Phenomena to those who can perceive-see what we cannot.
Ra: I am Ra. There are duple areas of potential confusion. Firstly, let us say that the basic concept is reasonably well-stated. Now we address the confusion. The nature of true simultaneity is such that, indeed, all is simultaneous. However, in your modes of perception you would perhaps more properly view the seeding of the creation as that of growth from the center or core outward. The second confusion lies in the term, ‘void’. We would substitute the noun, ‘plenum’.
Ra Wrote:105.16 Questioner: Would you clear up my thinking on that? I didn’t quite understand your statement.Echoes of We Are One. In order now I posit the concept that Infinity as so described is missing a component. Everything seem's to work by Octaves or Triads. Infinity/Unity/Simultaneity may be a possible configuration of whatever it is that makes up our Existence-of-Being or Beingness.
Ra: I am Ra. Each mind/body/spirit or mind/body/spirit complex has an existence simultaneous with that of creation. It is not dependent upon any physical vehicle. However, in order to evolve, change, learn, and manifest the Creator the physical vehicles appropriate to each density are necessary. Your query implied that physical vehicles accelerated growth. The more accurate description is that they permit growth.
I believe that the origins of the mystery-clad One Infinite One may very well be in the apparent void/plenum that preceded it's occurring. If there was a mass of infinity and simultaneity and unity that in its highly hard to imagine depths of being, could possibly coalesce into the first Focus, would it be similar to say, a 0 coalesces within its self a focus, 1? I think our OIC is the 1, and that whatever the substance of Infinity/Unity/Simultaneity, that Infinium, may have been what was the preceding Beingness or the next sequence of Beingness at that stage within Infinity.
If it's infinite, why not try to look further? I've found that consciously applying Simultaneity to everyday life leads me to much intellectual food for thought, helps me look inwards and gaze at the possibilities. I find that in utilizing this concept to aid me in balancing, I begin to realize the Unity in everything.
Perhaps just as there is a Mind/Body/Spirit Complex, maybe the Creator and all of us are composed of an Infinity/Simultaneity/Unity Complex of beingness, maybe no different from the concept that every photon may be a macro to some infinitesimally small individual universe with its own infinitesimally small individual universes reaching infinity, endlessly. Micro to Macro to Micro to Macro. Since space is illusion, there can't be a limit even within the apparent limited in terms of 'usable space'.
Similarly since Time is illusion, there is no present or past, only a Moment that spans infinitely, with timelessness being no different from timeliness.
But then what IS, what is this all, a Plenum? What is the Plenum consisted of? What is the origin source material? Is it a paradoxical 'thoughtcept' that both is and isn't by it's very being? Is it a simple sphere of Light with infinity inside and outside?
What makes up the Infinite Creator? What makes up Unconditional Love? What is the Original Thought made out of?
These are the questions regarding Origin I plumb often. I pull from them what knowledge I can, but when I find myself exhausted with Archetypes, Chakras, and Attempted Understandings... I turn to the very well-known unknown that is the Origin of the One Infinite Creator. Everything at this point seems to be free-range and yet it isn't. At the same time it's not hard to make many assumptions about our current Octave following suit in manner of beingness in some shape or form all the way to the One Infinite, since a shared primal distortion or Way of Being all the way to the Source is Free Will, and possibly just before that source there was something else.
This is actually stipulated in Gnosticism I believe. The Monad created something like itself, but it was grotesque and horrible, and being unable to undo the similar being that it had created, instead imprisoned it eternally, then having learned from it's mistakes, made anew and better Its next creation. In a more Law of One translation of concepts, the One made an Original Thought and has since refined it, and learns from its ways, perhaps the Original Thought wasn't originally Love if you desire to believe the negatively influenced Gnostic tales (of which are still very informative!). What was happening around that time of first creation? In The Beginning there was a Thought.
Where. Did. It. Come. From? My bet is on an Infinium Substance-like Beingness without Being (possible feminine without masculine?) that could be surmised as a Infinity/Simultaneity/Unity Complex (synonymous with the concept of a Mind/Body/Spirit Complex). Anyone wish to partake in this joyous pondering of the infinite mystery? I have already outlined my basic progress, if you have a different style of progression it may not be wrong and I would personally encourage a sharing of it.
Lastly, as a friendly reminder to everyone. In the context of Being and paradox, there is one that Humanity can very much learn from. The only thing that is Wrong, is Wrong itself. Fulfilling simultaneity, as Wrong is suddenly Wrong/right and Right/wrong in this configuration.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Aion - 04-22-2015
The process of the emergence of Creation in the Ra Material is very, very similar to the construction of the universe in Kabbalah. (Which shouldn't be surprising if you consider the history of the Jewish people...)
First there is Ain which means the void or nothingness of nothingness. This is considered the primordial 'blank slate' in which the Creator exists. I would equate it with the absolute potential of Intelligent Infinity. This is like Wuji or the Tao or the Void.
Then, the Ain becomes the Ain Soph which means 'limitless, boundless, infinite'. This corresponds with the first distortion of Free Will, I believe, in that it represents the fundamental freedom of the One Infinite to embody all things.
The third aspect is then called Ain Soph Aur which means 'limitless light', which of course would correspond with the second distortion of Logos or Love. Ain Soph Aur I believe is the same as Intelligent Energy.
The difference here is that Ra never mentions the primordial state except to refer to Intelligent Infinity prior to its discernment of finity. Thus, the first distortion happens to Ain, producing Ain Soph, then the second distortion occurs in Ain Soph and produces Ain Soph Aur.
In Kabbalah, these three are considered to be the primordial foundation of all of Creation. Creation occurs out of these by something called tzimtzum or a contraction in which the inward moving force produces an outward moving force thereby producing within it space, time and all of creation. I see this as the concentration of the principle of Logos.
The difficulty of a 'timeline' begins to appear however since I am personally not entirely sure the universe ever 'began' per se. This cycle began at some point but I don't believe that to be the beginning of the One Infinite Creator. In fact, I don't think the One Infinite Creator has a beginning or an end, it is simply there.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Aion - 04-22-2015
I would mention that in Chinese mythology, there is also this process of going from a Void in to a state of duality.
For them, there are the Three Pure Ones. The first one is Wuji which represents the primordial void of all potential. The second is Taiji which represents the unified activity of all polarities. The third is Yin and Yang which is the dualistic energies which emerge from Taiji.
Again you can see here a beginning in primordial void, then a spurring in to activity (free will) and then an organization of that energy through the focus in to 'parts' (via Logos).
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - VanAlioSaldo - 04-22-2015
Yes, they all do correspond in a manner that is coincidentally noticeable, and I don't say that off-puttingly as if to infer its not a profound thing to notice. I do believe coincidences aren't.
I however, am focusing on this primordial void. What could it Be? I like to think of it as the Masculine Beingness to our Infinite Creator's Feminine Manifestations.
As for simply just being, I can't fully accept it as a final answer due to the problem of paradox stating that at some point Being and nonBeing become One. I like to think there was a nonStart Beginning to the Creation, or simply it came into being 'In-Progress' by the means of the Primal Ways of the Way of One. However, I want to talk about everything before all of that.
This Primordial Void, is it not arguably a Primordial Plenum?
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Aion - 04-22-2015
I guess that depends entirely on how you are conceptualizing existence. Sure, you could refer to a primordial plenum as the fundamental 'container' of all existence, but I don't think that is the beginning or the core, I think that would equate to the emergence of intelligent infinity.
I view the Void as Mystery. This isn't to say it is not knowable, but rather I believe the closest we can come to know it is by touching our sense of mystery.
It doesn't make sense to me to say the Void or the primordial state 'is' anything, because I don't believe it is anything. I think the primordial state is void, empty, simultaneously nothing and everything in perfect equilibrium. Creation happened when, for whatever reason, this Void went out of perfect equilibrium, thereby producing all distortions.
In terms of the Ra Material, the 'reason' given for the One Infinite to invest in a finite Creation is so that it may fully know itself.
That raises many questions to me, such as why would the One Infinite lack anything at all?
This is a very prominent issue in Kabbalah too in that even though there is the tzimtzum, the reason for the Ain Soph Aur to contract in to Creation is still very mysterious.
Also, when I said "it just is", I wasn't referring to the activity or idea of 'one being', but rather suggest that it is even before beingness.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - VanAlioSaldo - 04-22-2015
I don't see it as a beginning either, more like another step in the fractal that is the Universe.
I actually had the same thought regarding why the Creator, being infinite, lacked knowledge of self. Its why, specifically, I seek not a primordial container, but explanation of What Specifically I, The Creator, Am made of, or more, what the substance of that primordial plenum was that comprises the Creator.
This mystery is in my mind, the literal mystery the Creator seeks to know. Why and How Am I? But in the process, why not learn, enjoy, and Love?
I like the way our Creator went about things
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Aion - 04-22-2015
(04-22-2015, 04:13 PM)VanAlioSaldo Wrote: I don't see it as a beginning either, more like another step in the fractal that is the Universe.
I actually had the same thought regarding why the Creator, being infinite, lacked knowledge of self. Its why, specifically, I seek not a primordial container, but explanation of What Specifically I, The Creator, Am made of, or more, what the substance of that primordial plenum was that comprises the Creator.
This mystery is in my mind, the literal mystery the Creator seeks to know. Why and How Am I? But in the process, why not learn, enjoy, and Love?
I like the way our Creator went about things
Hmm, well to me the idea that the Creator is "made" of anything doesn't make any sense to me. According to Ra, love and light came out of the Creator, so those cannot be its natural state. By the way it is expressed, Intelligent Energy appears to be the only substance in existence which is the kinetic expression of the potential within Intelligent Infinity.
What is the 'substance' of Intelligent Infinity? I think the question is confused. Substance is something that is a fractal or subset of Intelligent Infinity and thus I believe existence actually occurs before there is in 'substance'. I don't think the Creator is 'made' of anything, I believe it to be pure, absolute potential from which all energy is made kinetic. Thus, the Creator takes up no space, but neither is it nowhere because it IS those things.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Minyatur - 04-22-2015
(04-22-2015, 04:13 PM)VanAlioSaldo Wrote: I don't see it as a beginning either, more like another step in the fractal that is the Universe.
I actually had the same thought regarding why the Creator, being infinite, lacked knowledge of self. Its why, specifically, I seek not a primordial container, but explanation of What Specifically I, The Creator, Am made of, or more, what the substance of that primordial plenum was that comprises the Creator.
This mystery is in my mind, the literal mystery the Creator seeks to know. Why and How Am I? But in the process, why not learn, enjoy, and Love?
I like the way our Creator went about things
I do think the Creator is potential and that Infinity is intelligent in Itself. But we are the process of It becoming intelligent, we are the manifestation of that potential. Time gives of the illusion that it has not yet happened but any end is simultaneous to it's beginning in infinity.
The Source of All is simultaneous to the end of All. Beginnings and endings of different potentials to be are infinite and of which we are echos of inside infinity.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Aion - 04-22-2015
One way to approach this question is to look at the fact that apparently all of creation began with the One Original Thought. What does it mean for the Creator to think a thought?
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - AnthroHeart - 04-22-2015
I like how the superstructure of the Universe is like a human brain cell.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Stranger - 04-22-2015
(04-22-2015, 01:43 PM)Tan.rar Wrote: That raises many questions to me, such as why would the One Infinite lack anything at all?
The answer I was given from the Source is that the Creator is an infinite consciousness with infinite potential, and it is difficult for it to understand the implications of that without actually exploring that potential by creating.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Minyatur - 04-23-2015
The questions that I still find paradoxal about this subject would be :
How can the desire to be have the ability to power something into being?
Why is there energy?
Why is there potential?
Why is there even something to create this potential?
Why is there even something to experience this created potential?
What's the purpose of an intelligent infinity other than being? Could it simply not be there and it wouldn't actually change anything?
My best shot is that even nothingness finds the void boring, so there comes nothingness' infinite dream of reality. Not very satisfactory..
There's probably other-selves somewhere that have the greatest wish of making the One Intelligent Infinity become aware that beingness is purposeless and that it should stop and then nothing will never have been! But that's actually not happening since we're all here, beingness actually wants to be ultimately, silly beingness.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Minyatur - 04-23-2015
Sometimes I'm under the impression that even in an infinite octaves of beingness, I'll never actually know why there's something. It's just going with the flow anyway.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - VanAlioSaldo - 04-23-2015
(04-22-2015, 04:26 PM)Tan.rar Wrote:(04-22-2015, 04:13 PM)VanAlioSaldo Wrote: I don't see it as a beginning either, more like another step in the fractal that is the Universe.
I actually had the same thought regarding why the Creator, being infinite, lacked knowledge of self. Its why, specifically, I seek not a primordial container, but explanation of What Specifically I, The Creator, Am made of, or more, what the substance of that primordial plenum was that comprises the Creator.
This mystery is in my mind, the literal mystery the Creator seeks to know. Why and How Am I? But in the process, why not learn, enjoy, and Love?
I like the way our Creator went about things
Hmm, well to me the idea that the Creator is "made" of anything doesn't make any sense to me. According to Ra, love and light came out of the Creator, so those cannot be its natural state. By the way it is expressed, Intelligent Energy appears to be the only substance in existence which is the kinetic expression of the potential within Intelligent Infinity.
What is the 'substance' of Intelligent Infinity? I think the question is confused. Substance is something that is a fractal or subset of Intelligent Infinity and thus I believe existence actually occurs before there is in 'substance'. I don't think the Creator is 'made' of anything, I believe it to be pure, absolute potential from which all energy is made kinetic. Thus, the Creator takes up no space, but neither is it nowhere because it IS those things.
Substance was the best word I could figure to use, but its a problem of semantics. I'll conceptually refer to it as a paradoxance because you're right, and you basically describe another manner that doesn't help explain but demonstrates Simultaneity. And I have been too
I want to figure, what was before the Original Thought. Where were we birthed from?
I ask this in thought of consciousness existing from macro to micro with a singular link. Say us and our cells are alive. I know cells are closer to 2D and have yet to grow a depth of self awareness. But if they could, and they didn't know they all made up one being. Would that One Being's desire to know its origin extend to the many that made it up? Would that possibly imply that the One Infinite could be the first macro but also a Micro of another Macro that created it?
We have an idea of a plenum or void that was always present. What made it possible to coalesce the Original Thought and the Creator?
In my mind, and this is purely speculation. I think the primordial plenum/void is correct in a sense, that it is its own Being expanding in a similar way the Creator made Love and Light perform, in that it coalesced a vastness within itself to formulate a focus of itself. I don't mean to sound heretical or anything here. I'm just looking for feedback, but wouldn't that first focus of creating a thought be the actual first distortion? The stuff that makes up the Creator, is that not the first and Source Being?
I ask because I am grateful. For all of this. If there is a true Core or Source to give Love back to, Id like to add it to my LoveList.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - anagogy - 04-23-2015
(04-22-2015, 12:38 PM)VanAlioSaldo Wrote: Similarly since Time is illusion, there is no present or past, only a Moment that spans infinitely, with timelessness being no different from timeliness.
But then what IS, what is this all, a Plenum? What is the Plenum consisted of? What is the origin source material? Is it a paradoxical 'thoughtcept' that both is and isn't by it's very being? Is it a simple sphere of Light with infinity inside and outside?
What makes up the Infinite Creator? What makes up Unconditional Love? What is the Original Thought made out of?
These are the questions regarding Origin I plumb often. I pull from them what knowledge I can, but when I find myself exhausted with Archetypes, Chakras, and Attempted Understandings... I turn to the very well-known unknown that is the Origin of the One Infinite Creator. Everything at this point seems to be free-range and yet it isn't. At the same time it's not hard to make many assumptions about our current Octave following suit in manner of beingness in some shape or form all the way to the One Infinite, since a shared primal distortion or Way of Being all the way to the Source is Free Will, and possibly just before that source there was something else.
This is actually stipulated in Gnosticism I believe. The Monad created something like itself, but it was grotesque and horrible, and being unable to undo the similar being that it had created, instead imprisoned it eternally, then having learned from it's mistakes, made anew and better Its next creation. In a more Law of One translation of concepts, the One made an Original Thought and has since refined it, and learns from its ways, perhaps the Original Thought wasn't originally Love if you desire to believe the negatively influenced Gnostic tales (of which are still very informative!). What was happening around that time of first creation? In The Beginning there was a Thought.
Where. Did. It. Come. From? My bet is on an Infinium Substance-like Beingness without Being (possible feminine without masculine?) that could be surmised as a Infinity/Simultaneity/Unity Complex (synonymous with the concept of a Mind/Body/Spirit Complex). Anyone wish to partake in this joyous pondering of the infinite mystery? I have already outlined my basic progress, if you have a different style of progression it may not be wrong and I would personally encourage a sharing of it.
Lastly, as a friendly reminder to everyone. In the context of Being and paradox, there is one that Humanity can very much learn from. The only thing that is Wrong, is Wrong itself. Fulfilling simultaneity, as Wrong is suddenly Wrong/right and Right/wrong in this configuration.
The Source of All Existence
The source of all existence is, in my humble opinion, Beingness.
You can think of Beingness as consciousness that has transcended subject/object relationships (transcended duality). Beingness is the unblinking silent awareness behind all reality. There is simply no such thing as nonexistence. Because nothingness CANNOT exist, there can only be EVERYTHINGNESS.
Now, that doesn't stop everythingness from trying to *imagine* nothingness. Which is where the reality of manyness, duality, or separation comes from. They are simply innocent excursions of Beingness into illusion or That Which Is Not. Think of it like: a lower energy shell of infinity. Or: distortions of infinity. Or: distortions of Truth. Excursions of Truth into various levels of Falsity.
Beingness, or the Light of Truth, had no beginning. It was not created or made. It always was, is, and always will be. But even those terms are not accurate, because "time" is a construct, itself. Constructions have beginnings, middles, and ends. Beingness does not. Everything that has a beginning, must, eventually, have some sort of end too.
Because your awareness had no beginning, it will never have an end either.
People often try to imagine or conceptualize creation as a nothing, nothing, [BOOM!], suddenly SOMETHING type of situation. It is not. Everythingness, or infinity, has always existed as an infinite plenum of Beingness. Infinity is mind bogglingly ungraspable by a human mind. Basically, all realities already exist within Beingness. But Beingness does not perceive these realities in their separation, so it is just infinite awareness of infinite awareness. An infinite recursion of Aliveness, or Beingness. Non duality.
Beingness is neither knowing nor not knowing, but it can *choose* to know. And it is this distortion of choosing, of exercising free will, which leads it to birth the series of vibrational distortions where an evolution from not knowing can lead to knowing. This is the exploration we are partaking of as we speak.
When this choice is made, duality is born, and we are thrust into the illusion of densities, which are just portions of infinity, whittled down to specific ranges of conscious experiences, designed to facilitate the distortion of "Knowing Thyself".
When we are done with it, we will return to Beingness. Return to the eternal rhythms of beginningless endless Beingness.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - VanAlioSaldo - 04-23-2015
(04-23-2015, 02:23 AM)anagogy Wrote: The Source of All Existence
The source of all existence is, in my humble opinion, Beingness.
You can think of Beingness as consciousness that has transcended subject/object relationships (transcended duality). Beingness is the unblinking silent awareness behind all reality. There is simply no such thing as nonexistence. Because nothingness CANNOT exist, there can only be EVERYTHINGNESS.
Now, that doesn't stop everythingness from trying to *imagine* nothingness. Which is where the reality of manyness, duality, or separation comes from. They are simply innocent excursions of Beingness into illusion or That Which Is Not. Think of it like: a lower energy shell of infinity. Or: distortions of infinity. Or: distortions of Truth. Excursions of Truth into various levels of Falsity.
Beingness, or the Light of Truth, had no beginning. It was not created or made. It always was, is, and always will be. But even those terms are not accurate, because "time" is a construct, itself. Constructions have beginnings, middles, and ends. Beingness does not. Everything that has a beginning, must, eventually, have some sort of end too.
Because your awareness had no beginning, it will never have an end either.
People often try to imagine or conceptualize creation as a nothing, nothing, [BOOM!], suddenly SOMETHING type of situation. It is not. Everythingness, or infinity, has always existed as an infinite plenum of Beingness. Infinity is mind bogglingly ungraspable by a human mind. Basically, all realities already exist within Beingness. But Beingness does not perceive these realities in their separation, so it is just infinite awareness of infinite awareness. An infinite recursion of Aliveness, or Beingness. Non duality.
Beingness is neither knowing nor not knowing, but it can *choose* to know. And it is this distortion of choosing, of exercising free will, which leads it to birth the series of vibrational distortions where an evolution from not knowing can lead to knowing. This is the exploration we are partaking of as we speak.
When this choice is made, duality is born, and we are thrust into the illusion of densities, which are just portions of infinity, whittled down to specific ranges of conscious experiences, designed to facilitate the distortion of "Knowing Thyself".
When we are done with it, we will return to Beingness. Return to the eternal rhythms of beginningless endless Beingness.
Thank you! I want to hug you!
You set the flip correctly, it's closer to a Plenum/void than it is to a Void/plenum in this aspect in that the Plenum attempts to manifest a Void. (Which again, looking at how 3D people perceive space, is working out pretty good in some ways!)...And while I understand that I distorted what you meant, I do grasp what you mean.
My initial belief was actually much similar to this idea though, that a Primordial Void is more a Plenum, and that this Plenum was also a Being, and from this Being came the Infinite Creator as the first Distortion, the Law of One itself. With the Father of the Creator being that great mysterious Beingness that I attempt now to plumb, but very very well understand that as a Human, will not understand it to a degree nearly close to what I desire. However!! That's why this is a side-thought to the usual thoughts concerning Metaphysics rather than a major thought-point for me.
Something makes up Beingness, not something physical or even energetic, or even conceptually conceivable...But it is what I believe the space that is my hands, the furniture that is so solid, the air and nutrients coursing within me, the light that makes that All up, and the love that makes All of it possible, is all occurrent of Beingness, made up of something that, had I a better word, would not infer was literally made of 'some-thing'. It is something, I don't even know how to describe it in a manner that also makes it sound 'consciously alive' other than calling it an Infinity/Simultaneity/Unity Complex (the 'Primordial Plenum' itself) that birthed the first Distortion, the Law of One, which birthed the First-First Distortion for us, The Law of Free Will.
If I'm not making any sense please, someone, tell me.
It's my understanding that the Universe is a fractal that repeats forever. Then how can we have an Original Thought 'begin' or 'end'? I'm trying to say that the illusion of a beginning, a nonStart Beginning can occur. There is only 1. Being. Thus if it was not emptiness, then it was another level above the Infinite Creator that the Infinite Creator came upon. I see it as the Creator is still that Plenum. That the Creator within Being once more Started in a sense that seemed and for all intents and purposes can be mis/understood as a beginning, but actually wasn't. No different from how we don't remember what came before our Octave, but we know something must have, yet we seek forwards, while still pondering backwards, while striving to remain in the Moment and understanding of now.
Ra says the Reciprocal Theory of the Universe is the closest to correct we currently have. Using it's concept of all things across a spectrum having properties and a unit of measurement possible...Can I not make the assumption that a Mind/Body/Spirit Complex may not be so different from what comprises it's Source, an Infinity/Simultaneity/Unity Complex? A different style of living being, a different manner of...Infinity, that we have yet to get to and experience, but could possibly be?
With my way of calling it, an I/S/U Complex instead of a M/B/S Complex, while still trying to infer that they aren't actually different, they are just different in Beingness. That's the Simultaneity Paradox of Being, it can have an origin that could very well just be another step, with such a far path behind that one can't help but ponder backwards until reaching the same step, at a different Level. Essentially saying that maybe, the concept of further down the Spiral, we'll not only discover the Mystery of the Creator, but discover it was as simple as just realizing it Was the Creator, bringing full circle the realization that Infinity is self-recurring, and Beingness is as it will Be without Reason. The Creator is us, literally. The Plenum that birthed/is the Creator is us, literally. There is the full capability that the Original Thought was also not the First Original Thought, but a step in Infinity to aid us in whatever is above the Original Thought or better, how the Original Thought-Beingness can re-experience itself, the processes of Being that make possible that, which are impossible to conceptualize because it may be a manner of Being completely unlike us in all imaginable ways to the point of being unimaginable, but only at this place along the Spiral, where at a later point as we contemplate and look deeper, we slowly pierce an understanding of something deeper down/up/upon the spiral that could be Being both Un/Distorted.
Does this make sense? I'm basically trying to agree with you, in depth by basically reiterating in an endless way how Simultaneity can be a distortion of infinity, but that infinity could be a distortion of something else too that is still a part of that infinity. Essentially, Infinity finds itself within Infinity after looking within Infinity for so long to understand just how it came to be within Infinity. I imagine this is all much more, expansively, massively more entertaining and fun to experience and partake in than say the ravenously simplified way I have explained it focusing on the point that beginning and end only exist because they don't exist providing all the answer I need to the Origins of the Creator, the Creator Creates Itself. Self-recursive and Self-generating, an infinite amount of Ways of Self to both Be and seemingly not be.
I understand more and more as I regard this line of reasoning the basic manner of Being. Even if it is both simple and incomprehensible, it is still attainable to think about.
In an Infinite Simultaneous Unified Creation it seems to be at least, which is honestly what I would regard to find myself inside of, or at the most, A-Part-Of.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - AnthroHeart - 04-23-2015
Even the universes that we "will" create already exist.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - VanAlioSaldo - 04-23-2015
It's pretty incredible how much more efficiently I've been able to properly put into words what I felt would be a potential explanation of origin in a manner that stayed true to the seeming pattern of the Infinite Creator's mannerism of operation, at least for how I could interpret and understand it.
You know, I think simultaneity was my personal answer to myself about how to best serve the OIC. It involves the understanding at an eventual point that you are truly, as perceiving all experience through the Creator, also the Creator at that very moment. The only Moment there is, that is also You.
At least, my desire is to literally understand self as the Creator in a sacred sensible and logical sense that allows full integration of human with spirit, in order to better fulfill my desires to be of Service to Others truly as if they weren't just I, but also the Infinite Creator.
Thank you all for helping me get this far.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Minyatur - 04-23-2015
If I remember correctly Ra said that Infinity needed to be One for it to be. You can argue that there are infinite sub-infinities within it and that can be hardly wrong as we all are sub-infinities within the One Infinity.
Why do you all think Beingness is a satisfactory answer to Infinity? Nothingness could have been. It's pretty easy you simply need to have no energy whatsoever. Which is why I ask, why is there even energy? To permit beingness maybe? Fine but why could not beingness have not been? In my opinion there was eternal void before or rather simulatenously to eternal beingness. As we experienced infinite beingness, we also experienced infinite nothingness.
Speaking of the One Infinity, I think it is easier to picture it as a singularity. One point into which exists only a matrix of one single wave with simply infinite states. This point has no time, no space, no nothing. Yet from within it's matrix of infinite states exists the potential of all things to be.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - VanAlioSaldo - 04-23-2015
Maybe it becomes a manner of semantics. Perhaps the entire point of the Infinite Creator story could be to help solidify the understanding of the Law of One.
All is One.
Void, Plenum. Creator, Created. Love, Light. Time, Space.
= 1
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Minyatur - 04-23-2015
(04-23-2015, 03:57 PM)VanAlioSaldo Wrote: Maybe it becomes a manner of semantics. Perhaps the entire point of the Infinite Creator story could be to help solidify the understanding of the Law of One.
All is One.
Void, Plenum. Creator, Created. Love, Light. Time, Space.
= 1
Where does the 1 come from?
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - VanAlioSaldo - 04-24-2015
(04-23-2015, 06:18 PM)Minyatur Wrote:(04-23-2015, 03:57 PM)VanAlioSaldo Wrote: Maybe it becomes a manner of semantics. Perhaps the entire point of the Infinite Creator story could be to help solidify the understanding of the Law of One.
All is One.
Void, Plenum. Creator, Created. Love, Light. Time, Space.
= 1
Where does the 1 come from?
0. plus, 0 coalesced the 1, so technically...
0 = 1. Plus in a creation on infinite unity and simultaneity, it could be closer to 0 = 1 = Infinity.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - AnthroHeart - 04-24-2015
(04-24-2015, 07:30 AM)VanAlioSaldo Wrote:(04-23-2015, 06:18 PM)Minyatur Wrote:(04-23-2015, 03:57 PM)VanAlioSaldo Wrote: Maybe it becomes a manner of semantics. Perhaps the entire point of the Infinite Creator story could be to help solidify the understanding of the Law of One.
All is One.
Void, Plenum. Creator, Created. Love, Light. Time, Space.
= 1
Where does the 1 come from?
0. plus, 0 coalesced the 1, so technically...
0 = 1. Plus in a creation on infinite unity and simultaneity, it could be closer to 0 = 1 = Infinity.
I believe free will is what tells them apart.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - VanAlioSaldo - 04-24-2015
I always thought Free Will was closest expressed in the equation .99 = 1.
The continual forever rising upwards into knowing complete self, facilitated by Free Will.
I'm so happy you guys engage me on these things. 0 = 1 = Infinity, or Infinity = 0 = 1 has been my go to way of explaining the concept of the Original Thought to others, but so far no one has understood it at all.
I actually believe if you want to better understand the ways of the Law of One you can add against/next to everything a INF-Scale or Infinity-Scale that makes that item = Infinity and everything else around it. Everything can go on the Infinity Scale, everything within the Infinity Scale is in itself an individual Unit but also Equal to all other Units. While different, they are still the same.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Aion - 04-24-2015
Yet what is the magical property of the equation - "="? What does it mean for something to equal or be equal to something else?
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Minyatur - 04-24-2015
(04-24-2015, 12:51 PM)VanAlioSaldo Wrote: I always thought Free Will was closest expressed in the equation .99 = 1.
The continual forever rising upwards into knowing complete self, facilitated by Free Will.
I'm so happy you guys engage me on these things. 0 = 1 = Infinity, or Infinity = 0 = 1 has been my go to way of explaining the concept of the Original Thought to others, but so far no one has understood it at all.
I actually believe if you want to better understand the ways of the Law of One you can add against/next to everything a INF-Scale or Infinity-Scale that makes that item = Infinity and everything else around it. Everything can go on the Infinity Scale, everything within the Infinity Scale is in itself an individual Unit but also Equal to all other Units. While different, they are still the same.
I didn't say much about the OP because it simply went very well with what I had already thought for myself. It was great to see that ideas I've had were included in later portions of the Ra material I haven't even read yet and that others do view things as I view them.
For me it all started with "I am the Alpha and the Omega" in the christian bible. That quote made me think for years about the nature of time and it's relationship with a supreme God. It became evident to me that God could only be the simultaneous beginning and ending of all things and that without this existence does not make any sense.
I get the 0 = 1 = Infinity and it is like what I found for myself but somehow I am not totally satisfied with this. This doesn't give purpose to beingness nor a way for it to be and it remains that it could simply not be.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Stranger - 04-24-2015
This is an interesting thread to me, because a few weeks ago I found myself "randomly" thinking that
1
-- = ∞
0
and that this reflected the relationship between the Creator and creation.
I'm guessing someone somewhere is beaming this idea towards humanity to aid in its understanding.
I understand it as follows: one is the unitary consciousness of the Creator. 0 represents the fact that when unity divides into countless forms, each single form represents an infinitesimal portion of that oneness. Yet the infinite number of 0's combined add up to the Great Unity.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - anagogy - 04-24-2015
Minyatur Wrote: If I remember correctly Ra said that Infinity needed to be One for it to be. You can argue that there are infinite sub-infinities within it and that can be hardly wrong as we all are sub-infinities within the One Infinity.
Why do you all think Beingness is a satisfactory answer to Infinity? Nothingness could have been. It's pretty easy you simply need to have no energy whatsoever. Which is why I ask, why is there even energy? To permit beingness maybe? Fine but why could not beingness have not been? In my opinion there was eternal void before or rather simulatenously to eternal beingness. As we experienced infinite beingness, we also experienced infinite nothingness.
Speaking of the One Infinity, I think it is easier to picture it as a singularity. One point into which exists only a matrix of one single wave with simply infinite states. This point has no time, no space, no nothing. Yet from within it's matrix of infinite states exists the potential of all things to be.
Minyatur Wrote: I didn't say much about the OP because it simply went very well with what I had already thought for myself. It was great to see that ideas I've had were included in later portions of the Ra material I haven't even read yet and that others do view things as I view them.
For me it all started with "I am the Alpha and the Omega" in the christian bible. That quote made me think for years about the nature of time and it's relationship with a supreme God. It became evident to me that God could only be the simultaneous beginning and ending of all things and that without this existence does not make any sense.
I get the 0 = 1 = Infinity and it is like what I found for myself but somehow I am not totally satisfied with this. This doesn't give purpose to beingness nor a way for it to be and it remains that it could simply not be.
But see, that is precisely why nothingness could not have been. If there was a total lack of anything in some hypothetical beginning, there is simply *no way* anything could happen from it. There are no ingredients in that infinite state of lack for any spark to be lit. And if there were, it wouldn't have been nothing in the first place. This is exactly why nothingness is a logical dead end in this department.
When you accept that there is no nothingness, never was, never will be, it all begins to click into place. There is just infinity, which is everythingness, which at its heart is Beingness, or awareness -- the unblinking eye of consciousness, which is simply *existence itself*, because if there was no observer, could you really say anything existed at all? The infinite and eternal observer validates the fact that *we are*. I AM. I am aware, therefore I am.
Quote:6.7 Questioner: How were you able to make the transition from Venus, and I assume the sixth dimension, which— would that be invisible when you reached here? Did you have to change your dimensions to walk on the Earth?
Ra: You will remember the exercise of the wind. The dissolution into nothingness is the dissolution into unity, for there is no nothingness. From the sixth dimension, we are capable of manipulating, by thought, the intelligent infinity present in each particle of light or distorted light so that we were able to clothe ourselves in a replica visible in the third density of our mind/body/spirit complexes in the sixth density. We were allowed this experiment by the Council which guards this planet.
When I used to meditate on this question, of why there is anything at all, I was offered the image of a kind of central sun, or infinity star. The brightness of which, was of infinite strength. Of course, the image was only a symbol, but I was able to generally extrapolate the symbolism from the image, to the best of my ability. The light that radiated off the star was truth itself. As it radiated from the Source of truth it would thin out, or attenuate, the further it stretched away from the center of truth, or love and light. It wasn't just truth, it was also infinite love, unity, and infinite action, or aliveness, or what we think of as "energy". The void of darkness that surrounded the star was falsity. It was simply the lack of truth. That is what made it darkness, as opposed to light. There was no actual opposite to existence, just the illusion of one. The light that radiated toward this darkness would not disappear it just thinned out to the point where it would have what it perceived, as experiences of illusion or falsity. Of darkness. It would even get confused and think it was separate from the rest of the light (this is not actually possible). Eventually it would reach the limits of the illusory void of falsity (which as I said, was actually just attenuated truth, or those nooks and crannies of infinity that allowed for perspectives of consciousness with less than total congruency with infinite unity), and it would bounce off it and make a return trip to the center of the star.
This was the inevitable heart beat of existence. The focusing outwards and inwards till the focuses were complete. It is an eternal heartbeat, and octave to octave is a heart beat of this divine source.
I am reminded of a quote attributed to Michelangelo, "I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free."
The point is, the angel was already in the statue, and Michelangelo simply whittled away all that was not the statue. And thus, the creation was apparent. That is *precisely* how our illusion of reality was culled out of the infinity that was already there. The parameters of the illusion were carved out of the plenum of everythingness, and the *illusory* opposite to Existence, Truth, or Oneness, became the contrasting backdrop of that creation.
The marble, or plenum of infinite possibilities, so to speak, was always there. Always has been. I realize this is hard for the mind to grasp, but I feel very strongly this was so. And all these experiences, we seem to be having, are just portions of that infinity that were always there. It is our identification with portions of this infinity which gives us the perception of moving through change. No change is actually occurring however. When you are one with everything, you can identify with anything, and create an illusory separation between it, and everything else. We identify as persons, and so we seem to be persons. But we are really infinite Beingness.
We only perceive what we do, because we have forgotten the rest of infinity that is still always and forever there, but is obfuscated by our current perspective of consciousness.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - Sabou - 04-24-2015
Awesome anagogy. I really appreciate your insights over and over again. This topic has to be the most exhilarating thing for my to comprehend and never ceases to blow me away. The idea of FOREVERness and absolute INFINITY is just wild. To Imagine that we, our essence, will exist in some form for ever. Wow.
RE: Simultaneity, regarding the OIC's origins - AnthroHeart - 04-24-2015
I want to exist for a few eons as an orb of pure consciousness in a realm of bliss and beauty.