+- Bring4th (https://www.bring4th.org/forums)
+-- Forum: Bring4th Community (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=16)
+--- Forum: Olio (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Karmic difference between conciously withheld catalast and freely given catalyst (/showthread.php?tid=10508)
Karmic difference between conciously withheld catalast and freely given catalyst - tamaryn - 03-08-2015
I'm wondering of the karmic differences between these two poles.
What is the incarnational expression and difference between giving someone freely your opinions and sharing your own deeper love for them?
Where truly is the separation between the bigot and the lover? The bigot expresses himself freely (his own love or lack) to his creative degree while the lover treads lightly in his creative expressions.
Is it possibly to express yourself freely without judgement and not be an a****** to a certain extent? Or is it all unconditionally the same?
Is it really caring to give less of and less difficult catalyst? Is it courageous spiritually to be an uninhibited a******?
The lover seeks to give itself the gift of the other as itself. So then it attempts to see all things as merciful healing unto itself. But is this process in itself convoluted?
Is the freedom to express separation equal to the discipline to withhold a****** catalyst and see the other as self?
This one is shall we say too contentious either way.
RE: Karmic difference between conciously withheld catalast and freely given catalyst - Plenum - 03-08-2015
I think the element of kindness plays into this.
There is a buddhist principle of non-harm. That is very much a quality of the heart. Of course, one can unintentionally hurt someone's feelings, and there may be learning there for the individual. But the intent in action/communication, for s positive entity, is guided by the intention of non-harming.
severe forms criticism, sarcasm, mockery, dismissiveness - all are aimed at intentionally hurting the other person's feelings.
We normally associate harming with physical acts. And that indeed is one case of it. But emotional hurts/pain can last much longer than some physical injuries.
RE: Karmic difference between conciously withheld catalast and freely given catalyst - Shemaya - 03-08-2015
(03-08-2015, 04:03 AM)tamaryn Wrote: I'm wondering of the karmic differences between these two poles.
What is the incarnational expression and difference between giving someone freely your opinions and sharing your own deeper love for them?
Where truly is the separation between the bigot and the lover? The bigot expresses himself freely (his own love or lack) to his creative degree while the lover treads lightly in his creative expressions.
Is it possibly to express yourself freely without judgement and not be an a****** to a certain extent? Or is it all unconditionally the same?
Is it really caring to give less of and less difficult catalyst? Is it courageous spiritually to be an uninhibited a******?
The lover seeks to give itself the gift of the other as itself. So then it attempts to see all things as merciful healing unto itself. But is this process in itself convoluted?
Is the freedom to express separation equal to the discipline to withhold a****** catalyst and see the other as self?
This one is shall we say too contentious either way.
Sometimes the most caring and loving thing you can do is be truthful, and the truth really hurts sometimes. But it is the best catalyst, and it is "radiant", of the positive path. Sometimes in order to not hurt someone's feelings, we control our feelings, and our thoughts. We withhold the truth, and there is no catalyst for growth and expansion.
This was a hard lesson for me to learn, I have kept my blue ray shut down for most of 47 years, it is how I was socialized as a female in a patriarchal family, religion and society. So therefore I found a spiritual teacher who is an uninhibited ultra-truthteller. Which is what I needed to work through many blockages. I would not call him a bigot by any means, but he isn't afraid to poke you with the truth. I think it is courageous to speak the truth.
For me, it is a moment by moment thing, I have to make choices. What is the best thing to do in each situation? I like acting as a catalyst in some situations, I like extending love , acceptance and compassion as well. It is a moment by moment choice.
RE: Karmic difference between conciously withheld catalast and freely given catalyst - Bluebell - 03-08-2015
truth given w empathy & care & forethought is great.
RE: Karmic difference between conciously withheld catalast and freely given catalyst - Shemaya - 03-08-2015
(03-08-2015, 01:54 PM)Bluebell Wrote: truth given w empathy & care & forethought is great.
Yes, agreed. "Speak the truth with love." Even so, others often don't receive it well, and sometimes being more in someone's face is what is more efficient to facilitate needed transformation.
RE: Karmic difference between conciously withheld catalast and freely given catalyst - Bluebell - 03-08-2015
*shrug*
RE: Karmic difference between conciously withheld catalast and freely given catalyst - Jeremy - 03-08-2015
This has been a topic of debate for a while here and I don't think it has ever been agreed upon. The two main sides of thought are that one should be compassionate and accepting of whatever the other self is going through without being "mean" these are the lovey dovey people where everything should be all 4D when in reality we still live within the confines of 3D.
The other side are those who see the truth and honesty in any discussion. One can still practice love and compassion while being honest which is where some have the hang up I think. I'm one that regardless how how mean it may be perceived, if I feel that it was is needed at the moment for the other self to fully realize the implications of their question or situation, I will be honest and brutally honest at times. This isn't out of spite, bigotry, or judgement in the least but out of the love that I hold in knowing that this other self may not ever truly realize the catalyst in front of them without this brutal honesty.
RE: Karmic difference between conciously withheld catalast and freely given catalyst - tamaryn - 03-08-2015
I think i meant to frame the question in another way.
I am particularly interested in waves of wanderers or other groups sent to provide the very difficult catalyst to others. For example incarnating in the position of a slave master, or maybe in the position of torturing another.
We take on forms and we take on energies of conflicting natures to our soul. What is there then to learn from hurting another in such a blatant way?
What is the beauty and where is the learning in such difficult positions? And why are some sent here with the responsibility to treat others so poorly?
So what i am getting at is what is the karmic difference between freely providing this difficult catalyst (hurting another) without hesitation and choosing not to share/not to act? I feel either way there is a deep and resounding beauty of energy exchange that occurs. And either way the soul evolves greatly from the choices. Maybe there is even more evolution in the act of harming another. There is still beauty in the soul that is hardly touched by the cruelty of experience.
RE: Karmic difference between conciously withheld catalast and freely given catalyst - Shemaya - 03-09-2015
(03-08-2015, 11:48 PM)tamaryn Wrote: What is the beauty and where is the learning in such difficult positions? And why are some sent here with the responsibility to treat others so poorly?
I feel either way there is a deep and resounding beauty of energy exchange that occurs. And either way the soul evolves greatly from the choices. Maybe there is even more evolution in the act of harming another. There is still beauty in the soul that is hardly touched by the cruelty of experience.
Tamaryn, I am not trying to be mean, but you have some twisted ideas in your questioning.
This is my humble opinion, based on my experience in 3D. There is no beauty in being exploited , harmed, injured or scarred. The time for harming others is over, now is the time for all to unite in peace and love. The Earth is being reborn to a new earth free from cruelty or violence. Those who are disconnected from their hearts and choose to not open to 4d energies are leaving, because they cannot abide in love, and they are disconnected.
More evolution in harming another? OMG!! No, nada, no way, completely wrong. Sorry to be so strong in my words, but we can't have twisted ideas like that any more in the planetary consciousness.
RE: Karmic difference between conciously withheld catalast and freely given catalyst - tamaryn - 03-09-2015
Hmmm sorry about that.
My belief is that no matter how positive or negative the circumstance there is still growth or evolution of the spirit.
RE: Karmic difference between conciously withheld catalast and freely given catalyst - Plenum - 03-09-2015
(03-08-2015, 11:48 PM)tamaryn Wrote: I am particularly interested in waves of wanderers or other groups sent to provide the very difficult catalyst to others. For example incarnating in the position of a slave master, or maybe in the position of torturing another.
We take on forms and we take on energies of conflicting natures to our soul. What is there then to learn from hurting another in such a blatant way?
What is the beauty and where is the learning in such difficult positions? And why are some sent here with the responsibility to treat others so poorly?
well, it all depends on the kind of model you have for incarnation, and the kind of parameters that govern circumstances by which a certain life is chosen. A negative entity would be looking for situations that would offer further opportunities to further their polarity:
A negatively oriented individual mind/body/spirit complex will ordinarily program for wealth, ease of existence, and the utmost opportunity for power. Thus many negative entities burst with the physical complex distortion you call health.
The issue is not that Earth needs more negativity or a**hole behaviour as you call it - this is a mixed polarity planet after all - there's going to be plenty enough of that catalyst.
And it's also the case that one doesn't need an abundance of so-called negative catalyst to grow fully - it is the element of Free Will and the Veil which provides the full rainbow and variety of catalyst for the self; not the presence of overt negativity.
(03-09-2015, 10:57 AM)tamaryn Wrote: My belief is that no matter how positive or negative the circumstance there is still growth or evolution of the spirit.
this is true. But it's provided by the self, for the self. I think you are looking too much at the external agent as a source of catalyst.
Everything is subject to interpretation by the self.
RE: Karmic difference between conciously withheld catalast and freely given catalyst - AnthroHeart - 03-09-2015
Just remember we welcomed the negativity before we came into incarnation.