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White Magick - Matt1 - 12-16-2014
Has any one here practiced or has experience in white magick or the western esoteric tradition? I have seen many different societies that teach, mostly off shoots of the Golden Dawn.
Has anyone looked into this subject or these types of societies? I know that Ra speaks of the Golden Dawn as a fairly formidable system of learning/teaching. However i can't help but notice that Ra also says that the highest grade 10:1 Ipsissimus is related to someone negatively polarising.
Quote:There are many techniques and ways of practicing so-called white magical arts. Are rituals designed by a particular group for their own particular use just as good or possibly better than those that have been practiced by groups such as the Order of the Golden Dawn and other magical groups?
Ra: I am Ra. Although we are unable to speak with precision on this query, we may note some gratification that the questioner has penetrated some of the gist of a formidable system of service and discipline.
Quote:Questioner: As an ending question I will just ask is it possible, then, for the ipsissimus to have either positive or negative polarity, or must he be neither?
Ra: I am Ra. We shall respond to the meaning of this term in a specialized sense. The ipsissimus is one who has mastered the Tree of Life and has used this mastery for negative polarization.
Is there any brief query which we may respond to as we take leave of this instrument?
RE: White Magick - Unbound - 12-16-2014
Been talking with the folks from one of the Golden Dawn temples on the island here, it seems the Golden Dawn is a very tight-knit group globally and they keep close ties. I have been practicing the Middle Pillar exercise, as well as building my techniques for performing the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram.
I do have other ritual experience though, mostly related to Celtic Druidry and fire festivals.
To be honest, I think that most of the basic 'magical knowledge' that they were using to establish the Ra contact all came from Golden Dawn principles and techniques (such as the LBRP).
I also actually was curious about how Ra said that the Ipsissimus is one who has polarized negatively and I asked my GD contact about it and he said there origins of the word are uncertain and it does to an extent pertain to an individual who has achieved a great degree of personal power but in his opinion that means the release of the lesser self to embody the higher self. There is debate in the GD whether or not Ipsissimus is even an attainable grade in life, some believe it can happen only after death. Many schools of GD don't even go past the Adeptus Minor grade, which is the grade Israel Regardie got to and whom is the main source of "public" writings on the GD. I understand the temple I am talking with goes beyond that, however.
However, that being said, Aleister Crowley was the one who claimed to have achieved the grade of Ipsissimus and if you look at the Thelemic system it would make plenty of sense for one of the highest grade to be negatively polarized (remember Crowley was positive, but he became very imbalanced.) So it could be that Ra is referring to different systems there as Crowley borrowed the term Ipsissimus from the Golden Dawn.
RE: White Magick - Matt1 - 12-16-2014
Thanks for the input. I understand that most of the material is coming from what Israel Regardie disclosed probably from what he learnt from Crowley and most societies following the 3 grade system are probably using channeled information at the highest grades to guide them or the secret chiefs as they call them.
With a bit of research i have only found one group that seems to have a direct linage to Mathers and the original H.O.G.D from 1888. I was also interested to read that this group says the Hermetic order is but an outer order for the portal grades going up to 7:4 which becomes a Rosicrucian society in my understanding, then from 8:3 at the Supernals till 10:1 is the order of adepts called the secrete chiefs who the group claims are physical people in Europe as it were but communicate astrally as well as physically.
However the system does have a few bumps in the road for me, the fact the the 3 founders of the H.O.G.D are master mason who in turn studied under the Rosicrucian Society of England which in turn is based upon the German order of the rosy cross from 1750. With everything i have heard about masonry it does raise a few questions with me. But over all the system does seem positive. It could well simply be a positive linage that has a part of it that went rouge and became distorted thus resulting in different linage.
RE: White Magick - Unbound - 12-16-2014
Actually no, Israel Regardie was an actual member of Golden Dawn and though he did have a relationship with Crowley and is in to some Thelemic ideas he actually particularly wanted to separate himself from Crowley, even going so far as to say, "Damn, I'm a Golden Dawn man, not a Thelemite!"
I think a lot of the "sullying" of the Golden Dawn image actually comes from Crowley as most who hear about it do so through him.
Yes, they are basically considered to be a continuation of Rosicrucianism in many ways.
http://thubantemple.com/about-us
That's the temple by me.
Not a surprise at all that I would connect with a Draconic styled temple, being firmly rooted in the Dragon Clan, myself.
RE: White Magick - Unbound - 12-16-2014
Correction, technically he was a member of the Stella Matutina which was a Golden Dawn Outer Order or "successor" organization, basically the continuation of the Mathers et al Golden Dawn.
RE: White Magick - anagogy - 12-16-2014
Matt1, what interests you about white magic, if i may ask?
RE: White Magick - native - 12-17-2014
I've actually been reading up on this topic. The more I do the more it becomes apparent how much the Ra Material is influenced by the topic of magic, and how much it seems to be pointing in that direction. The group didn't really know what they were getting themselves into, and it's something to be mindful of I believe.
"75.16 You are correct only in the quite specialized position in which the instrument finds itself, that is, of being involved in and dedicated to work which is magical or extremely polarized in nature. This group entered this work with polarity but virtual innocence as to the magical nature of this polarity it is beginning to discover."
It's apparent that Don studied the Golden Dawn somewhat and we know that Crowley's name comes up in the material, so the group had read some of his writings as well. I was just reading about Franz Bardon today, who is considered the preeminent magician of the 20th century..more highly regarded than someone like Crowley. His book "Initiation into Hermetics" sounds interesting, as his personal philosophy attempts to link yoga with hermetics.
(12-16-2014, 03:54 PM)Unbound Wrote: I also actually was curious about how Ra said that the Ipsissimus is one who has polarized negatively and I asked my GD contact about it and he said there origins of the word are uncertain and it does to an extent pertain to an individual who has achieved a great degree of personal power but in his opinion that means the release of the lesser self to embody the higher self.
Just curious if you mentioned the Law of One to them, and if they had anything to say about it?
RE: White Magick - Unbound - 12-17-2014
I have shown the Ra Material to my friend and so far he hasn't really commented on it, saying he isn't familiar enough with it to give a fair opinion, which I can certainly respect aha
I have been contemplating a post I would perhaps like to make on the forum that is about Golden Dawn, Hermeticism and the Ra Material and how they appear to be tied together, but I think maybe I should reread the Ra Material, I have gone through a sort of abstinence of reading it because I had felt that I was oversaturated with its ideas. I feel it may be a good time to revisit.
RE: White Magick - native - 12-17-2014
It'd be an interesting thread. Yes it helps to take a break from this stuff. I feel that much of the Ra Material is distorted information as the group was working through their own catalyst, which was necessary and natural of course. Reading it serves as initiation since we all come to it with certain distortions. Certain ideas are bound to no longer be useful. "There are many things which fall away in the many, many steps of adepthood."
RE: White Magick - Matt1 - 12-17-2014
(12-16-2014, 06:44 PM)anagogy Wrote: Matt1, what interests you about white magic, if i may ask?
To deepen my understanding and service.
RE: White Magick - Unbound - 12-17-2014
(12-17-2014, 10:42 AM)Icaro Wrote: It'd be an interesting thread. Yes it helps to take a break from this stuff. I feel that much of the Ra Material is distorted information as the group was working through their own catalyst, which was necessary and natural of course. Reading it serves as initiation since we all come to it with certain distortions. Certain ideas are bound to no longer be useful. "There are many things which fall away in the many, many steps of adepthood."
It is actually more apparent to me than ever how much the Ra Material is still a channel through an individual. Starting to reread it again yesterday and I realized that the information that is being given isn't actually particularly unique, it's just expressed with a unique set of terminology and wordplay. As they say, "a somewhat different slant on the information that is ever and always the same."
As I understand it, in the Golden Dawn (I think Adeptus Exemptus grade?) there is also the task of channeling and scribing communications from a higher entity or your higher self. I also have a pretty firm belief that Carla is a wanderer of Ra so I get the sense that her channeling Ra isn't as much of a "random encounter" as it is her channeling another level of consciousness she is tied to.
Needless to say, the most useful thing to me is that I have broken my attachment and exaltation of the Ra Material. I'm realizing now that the reason the Ra Material is so startling is it appears to be a very high level teaching coming through those who are by no means of the level to traditionally receive it. However, because of the unity of their group (Ra said the three of them combined were only equal to a Neophyte, not even an Adept) they were able to handle a higher level of work than would normally be possible as just an individual at that level.
That is why I think the language and expression in the Ra Material is so roundabout in some ways. It was meant to be an introduction to higher thought, of unity, for those who aren't necessarily at a point where it is "obvious". It's meant to get one's foot in the door and a chance to get through, but I absolutely think that Ra intended it to be a vehicle of seeking rather than any book of answers.
RE: White Magick - native - 12-18-2014
I agree. There are a lot of things the group entertained, but the underlying message that Ra is communicating can be found in all the great teachings. Some things really aren't anything new in that sense, but reworded in a particularly interesting vocabulary as you say.
I do however think that their unique expression allows for concepts to be understood internally with great clarity, as if being able to be understood as symbols or visualizations..it's hard to describe..I guess more along the lines of telepathic impression of concepts that are felt. So emotional resonance.
Their teaching of the archetypal mind certainly seems to be new however, along with their description of the energy centers and interpretation of experience in general. So I think some things are old, and others are new that allow us to seek and move ever forward.
RE: White Magick - Matt1 - 12-18-2014
If anything, i would say the current teachings are probably coming from the original Ra contact and other Social memory complex's in a distorted form. That is probably why they are similar to a certain degree. I have to say though that the Ra material is the most clear and highest quality i have read as it fills in many of the gaps that the current teachings have lost or distorted over many thousands of years.
RE: White Magick - Unbound - 12-18-2014
Aha A somewhat different slant on the concepts that are ever the same.
Ra also mentions the Tree of Life and that makes me wonder because as I've come to understand it it wasn't Ra who came up with the Tree of Life scheme. Perhaps it is more universal. I really wonder how different the contact would have been if Don & Co chose to explore a different system than the Tarot.
Although, I will say that "clarity" and "quality" very much depend upon one's standards and expectations.
RE: White Magick - Matt1 - 12-19-2014
Being Judaic in origin one can assume it would connect to Yahweh, the tetragrammaton plays an important role in Kabbalah and Merkaba Mysticism. The Hebrew alphabet has 22 characters relating to the archetypes. Ra said Yahweh group used this design giving it powerful vibrational aspects like Sanskrit. However that being said the Hermetic Qabalah is related then to Hermes who in turn is a revamp of the Egyptian God Thoth who in turn through his emerald tables claims a connection to Atlantis. My gut feeling is the Qabalah is a mixture of different knowledge over time but still has the essence of the original teachings in it. Be it from the Judaic or Hermetic roots.
I believe the historic roots from the western side of things comes from Atlantis - Sumer - Egypt - Greek/Rome - Europe.
RE: White Magick - Unbound - 12-19-2014
Well yeah, all of the ideological structures we are familiar with certainly came from those cultures, although I get the sense that if you took the principles to another planet or another cultures it would take yet again a completely different form still professing the same principles.