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In regards to eating meat - Printable Version +- Bring4th (https://www.bring4th.org/forums) +-- Forum: Bring4th Studies (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Healing (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=45) +---- Forum: Health & Diet (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=22) +---- Thread: In regards to eating meat (/showthread.php?tid=239) |
RE: In regards to eating meat - Patrick - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 06:05 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:(05-01-2012, 06:01 PM)Valtor Wrote: I am not saying that judging is wrong, because I believe that nothing is wrong. I already did, I co-submitted this question with you. ![]() I would agree with you that successfully living by 6d values in 3d is not realist. But I see no problem in trying. (05-01-2012, 06:05 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:(05-01-2012, 06:01 PM)Valtor Wrote: But imposing your judgment on him does result in negativity to you AND does not change anything regarding his act. It's not helping one bit. I understand the call you perceive and are answering. I already said that I believe animals (and plants for that matter) should be treated with compassion, just like humans. But I also believe this to be a different debate than eating meat per se. (05-01-2012, 06:05 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:(05-01-2012, 06:01 PM)Valtor Wrote: The person in need of help would get my help. And in so doing, I would indeed try to stop the would-be murderer/rapist. I understand this. It's simply that I sincerely do not believe that eating meat is the issue here. (05-01-2012, 06:05 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:(05-01-2012, 06:01 PM)Valtor Wrote: I am not nearly balanced enough to simply watch this while only feeling compassion for both. My understanding of this comes directly from the Ra material. Quote:42.3 Questioner: I will attempt to make an analogy. If an animal, shall I say, a bull, in a pen attacks you because you have wandered into his pen, you get out of his way rapidly but you do not blame him. Or, you do not have much of an emotional response other than the fear response that he might damage you. However, if you encounter another self in his territory and he attacks you, your response may be more of an emotional nature creating physical bodily responses. Am I correct in assuming that when your response to the animal and to the other-self seeing both as the Creator and loving both and understanding their action in attacking you is the action of their free will then you have balanced yourself correctly in this area? Is this correct? RE: In regards to eating meat - βαθμιαίος - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 06:46 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I agree about Ra's meaning. But that's precisely my point: So would you perhaps edit Ra's quote to say that wanderers will lighten the planetary vibration "unless they eat meat?" RE: In regards to eating meat - Patrick - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 06:46 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:(05-01-2012, 06:31 PM)Valtor Wrote: Would you accept it if I start pointing out logical fallacies in the arguments we make here ? Ok, that is why I asked before attempting it. ![]() I will not do so then. In this context, I will simply not reply to posts #2807 and #2808. I will instead drop the subject of money. RE: In regards to eating meat - Monica - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 06:50 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: I don't know that much about chickens. Here, for your education ![]() Live Fast Die Young - the life of a meat chicken Undercover Investigation at Hy-Line Hatchery (These are not PETA videos! since I know 'some' people won't watch any videos from PETA.) Please, watch it in its entirety. And here, a courageous farmer speaks up: Food Inc. Chicken Farm (05-01-2012, 06:50 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: Are you sure dairy cows are miserable? Do these cows look happy? Would a human be happy if they can't even turn around and must spend their entire life in a tiny stall? Check out the pigs too. What intensive farming means -- for the animals and for the environment. (BBC documentary about farming in the US) (05-01-2012, 06:50 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: Have you been to a dairy? I have, and the cows certainly didn't look miserable. Also, we have a milk cow, and I know from experience that she gives more milk and cream when she's happy and well-fed. I suspect that it would be the same for commercial animals. Respectfully, I invite you to get educated! But don't believe me. Here is a report from ABC News. The Ugly Side of Milk: Animal Cruelty RE: In regards to eating meat - Diana - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 07:05 PM)Valtor Wrote: My understanding of this comes directly from the Ra material. Sure, you are free to point out logical fallacies. RE: In regards to eating meat - 3DMonkey - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 12:07 PM)Valtor Wrote: "What would be the value in that, other than to indulge the perpetrator?" this is the place we find ourselves in the day after anyway. The point of Ra's compassion was to teach us how to achieve acceptance, IMO. I don't think their compassion was to push our thoughts toward the yellow ray concerns. "The harvest is now" RE: In regards to eating meat - Monica - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 07:05 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: I'm not suggesting it's fabricated, and I'm not oblivious to it. 1. Why does it matter if I've ever been to one personally? Must I travel to Africa to know that there are starving children there? But in answer to your question, I've seen the cattle feedlots from the road. I couldn't stomach going inside. 2. Why are PETA videos disregarded? Why does it matter who filmed the video? the footage is REAL. 3. Of course not ALL farms are this bad. Yes, there are still some old-fashioned, small-time farmers, like the ones in your area. But please watch the BBC film. This is the wave of the future! This method of 'farming' [sic] is being touted as the only way to feed the world's population, and is being promoted to the British "here, learn how they do it in the US." But regardless, there fact is that these do exist, and they are becoming more and more widespread. To disregard the reality of these abominations, because some 'humane' farmers still exist, is to miss the point. 4. I just posted several NON-PETA videos. Even the BBC and ABC News has reported this. And I only spent about a minute searching. There are lots more. (05-01-2012, 07:08 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: So would you perhaps edit Ra's quote to say that wanderers will lighten the planetary vibration "unless they eat meat?" As the other vegetarians and I have stated numerous times, our overall vibration is based on the sum total of all our choices, not any particular choice, so it's impossible to answer that. Eating meat is one of many choices that affects our overall vibration. But it's a biggie, in my opinion, precisely because of the magnitude of its impact. And because, in most cases, it's not necessary. Ra didn't say "don't steal" did they? Yet most of us would agree that it's pretty obvious stealing isn't cool for an STO entity. Ra didn't provide specific guidelines on what is appropriate for us. That would defeat the purpose of the veil. We're supposed to figure it out! But Ra gave lots of clues. Choosing the words Service to Others as the name of the positive path is a clue. Talk about Choice, and 'answering the call' ...those too are clues. Choosing the term animal products instead of meat when asked a general question is a clue. Adding the phrase to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism is another clue. RE: In regards to eating meat - Patrick - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 07:28 PM)Diana Wrote: As I see it, what is missing in the above explanation is that Ra does not say to do nothing if attacked, in other words, not to defend one's self (or an other-self). Ra says that regardless of what happens, love would be the balanced emotional response. Ra would certainly not tell us what to do. ![]() Also, a perfectly balanced individual would not be able to retain this perfect balance while veiled in 3d. Plus, it is my understanding that there are no perfectly balanced individual to begin with. RE: In regards to eating meat - Diana - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 07:45 PM)Valtor Wrote:(05-01-2012, 07:28 PM)Diana Wrote: As I see it, what is missing in the above explanation is that Ra does not say to do nothing if attacked, in other words, not to defend one's self (or an other-self). Ra says that regardless of what happens, love would be the balanced emotional response. Right. But Ra didn't say that we are to just do nothing, and let someone attack us or our family. Responding with love is not the same as doing nothing and letting everything be. For one thing, there is the respect for the physical body which houses our consciousness, and which we are caretakers of. With regard to eating meat and supporting the industry, to just let it be because one doesn't want to interfere with any human free will is to ignore it. Just as not doing anything about an attacker is ignoring the situation. One can still respond with love and defend oneself. The idea of responding with love is what is in your heart. You may hate the attacker and defend yourself. You may also love the attacker and defend yourself. Again, with regard to the meat industry, the question has been asked by the creator of this thread, which opened the door to opinions and viewpoints. The door is open, and the question asked, so I feel I am causing no infringement upon any member's free will by expressing my thoughts. (And this goes for everyone here.) RE: In regards to eating meat - βαθμιαίος - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 07:33 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: 1. Why does it matter if I've ever been to one personally? Must I travel to Africa to know that there are starving children there? But in answer to your question, I've seen the cattle feedlots from the road. I couldn't stomach going inside. 1. It's possible you might find the reality on the ground is not quite so dire as you believe. 2. I don't think PETA videos are disregarded. 3. The future is not set in stone. It seems to me that if animals activists worked with humane farmers we might be able to get some traction. (05-01-2012, 07:33 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: As the other vegetarians and I have stated numerous times, our overall vibration is based on the sum total of all our choices, not any particular choice, so it's impossible to answer that. Eating meat is one of many choices that affects our overall vibration. But it's a biggie, in my opinion, precisely because of the magnitude of its impact. And because, in most cases, it's not necessary. I believe it's possible to be a compassionate omnivore and also that, as Edgar Cayce quoted Jesus, what comes out of our mouths is more important (and relevant to our vibration) than what goes in. RE: In regards to eating meat - Monica - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 07:29 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: The point of Ra's compassion was to teach us how to achieve acceptance, IMO. My understanding is that the reason acceptance is a core tenet of the Law of One is not to replace compassion, but to facilitate compassion. Acceptance is a core tenet, yes. But compassion is the criteria for graduation to 4D positive. To focus on acceptance, at the exclusion of compassion, is to miss the point of acceptance, and miss the ultimate goal. (05-01-2012, 07:29 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: I don't think their compassion was to push our thoughts toward the yellow ray concerns. Trying to change society is yellow ray. Having compassion for animals, and answering their call, is green ray. RE: In regards to eating meat - βαθμιαίος - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 07:58 PM)Diana Wrote: Right. But Ra didn't say that we are to just do nothing, and let someone attack us or our family. Responding with love is not the same as doing nothing and letting everything be. For one thing, there is the respect for the physical body which houses our consciousness, and which we are caretakers of. Actually, they did imply that in higher densities that's exactly what we'd do. Quote:33.11 Questioner: This motion picture brought out this point of which we have been talking. And the entity, the Colonel, had to make a decision at that point. I was just wondering, with respect to polarity, his polarization. He could have either knuckled under, you might say, to the negative forces, but he chose to defend his friend instead. Is it possible for you to estimate which is more positively polarizing: to defend the positively oriented entity, or to allow the suppression by the negatively oriented entities? Can you answer this even? (05-01-2012, 08:39 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Trying to change society is yellow ray. Having compassion for animals, and answering their call, is green ray. Trying to change society in order that animals be better treated is yellow ray, but there's nothing wrong with that. RE: In regards to eating meat - Monica - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 08:39 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: 1. It's possible you might find the reality on the ground is not quite so dire as you believe. No, not possible, for the simple reason that those videos are real. It's impossible to say "that's not really happening." The most one could do is say that it's not as widespread as they say. On the other hand, it's possible, and I'd say quite probable, that it's far more widespread than they say. Certainly much more widespread than you seem to think. Why do you seem to be downplaying these atrocities? (05-01-2012, 08:39 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: 2. I don't think PETA videos are disregarded. A few posts ago, you said: (05-01-2012, 08:39 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: I'm suggesting that the PETA videos don't show enterprises that are respectful to animals, and I'm suggesting that there are many of those. What difference does it make who did the filming? The film is real; that's all that matters. Of course PETA doesn't film cute cozy farms, the same as charities don't report on happy, well-fed children. What would be the point of that? PETA is very unpopular, and many people refuse to watch the videos just because they're from PETA. That's why I was careful to choose videos from other organizations and even mainstream news, for better credibility. (05-01-2012, 08:39 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: 3. The future is not set in stone. It seems to me that if animals activists worked with humane farmers we might be able to get some traction. They're already doing that. But even 'spiritually oriented' Law of One students can't even agree that animals even deserve any compassion, so I don't have much hope for the general population. (05-01-2012, 08:39 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: I believe it's possible to be a compassionate omnivore and also that, as Edgar Cayce quoted Jesus, what comes out of our mouths is more important (and relevant to our vibration) than what goes in. It's not about what goes into the mouth. It's about compassion. (05-01-2012, 08:41 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:(05-01-2012, 07:58 PM)Diana Wrote: Right. But Ra didn't say that we are to just do nothing, and let someone attack us or our family. I disagree. They said they declined the service of the STS entities. They also gave instructions for how the LL team could decline the service. They, Ra, declined the service also. (05-01-2012, 08:41 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:Quote:Ra: I am Ra. ...The impulse to protect the loved other-self is one which persists through the fourth density, a density abounding in compassion. More than this we cannot and need not say. This is only part of the picture. The rest of the picture is that Jesus had a particular mission, and he lacked wisdom, which was fine in order to complete his mission. Another piece of the puzzle is declining the offer of STS service. (05-01-2012, 08:41 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:(05-01-2012, 08:39 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Trying to change society is yellow ray. Having compassion for animals, and answering their call, is green ray. Right, there's nothing wrong with that. But, why is the green ray part always left out? Many times in this discussion, the vegetarians have been accused of "acting in yellow ray" while totaling ignoring the many times we've explained that yellow ray action is secondary; what drives us, what motivates us, is green ray. Compassion is green ray, but compassion seems to almost always get left out of the discussion. RE: In regards to eating meat - Patrick - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 07:58 PM)Diana Wrote:(05-01-2012, 07:45 PM)Valtor Wrote: Ra would certainly not tell us what to do. IMHO you do not have to worry about infringing on free will, I would go as far as to say that anyone currently veiled in 3d cannot infringe upon free will the way Ra could. We paid the price to be in the game. ![]() You are implying that eating meat signifies our intent to support the industry and I'm saying that it's more complex than that. Lets assume for an instant that eating meat is an act that polarizes somewhat in the negative. Have you ever considered that all these animals are evolving much faster toward 3d because of what they go through in their short lives? Kind of like us under the influence of the Elites, where we live about 90 years and our normal lifespan should be 900 years. We are evolving much faster because of this negativity. Actually I'm at a point where I not only forgave the Elites, but I can even feel thankful for the service they provided. You're probably thinking: "That's insane!". Right? ![]() RE: In regards to eating meat - βαθμιαίος - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 08:48 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: No, not possible, for the simple reason that those videos are real. It's impossible to say "that's not really happening." I'm not downplaying them, but yes, I'm suggesting that things are not monolithically bad. (05-01-2012, 08:48 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: What difference does it make who did the filming? The film is real; that's all that matters. Of course PETA doesn't film cute cozy farms, the same as charities don't report on happy, well-fed children. What would be the point of that? I didn't say it mattered who did the filming, just that the reality may be less homogenous than the films portray. (05-01-2012, 08:48 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: They're already doing that. But even 'spiritually oriented' Law of One students can't even agree that animals even deserve any compassion, so I don't have much hope for the general population. I think we're all in favor of compassion for animals. (05-01-2012, 08:48 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I disagree. They said they declined the service of the STS entities. They also gave instructions for how the LL team could decline the service. They, Ra, declined the service also. Good points, and I agree. They point to your using blue ray as well as green in your efforts. ![]() RE: In regards to eating meat - Patrick - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 08:48 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: ...But even 'spiritually oriented' Law of One students can't even agree that animals even deserve any compassion, so I don't have much hope for the general population... I did not read the whole thread, but I do not remember even one poster who did not agree that animals deserve compassion. RE: In regards to eating meat - Monica - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 08:57 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: I'm not downplaying them, but yes, I'm suggesting that things are not monolithically bad. In the same way starvation isn't "monolithically bad"? If I am showing a video about the starvation problem in Africa, must I put in a disclaimer that children in the US are well-fed? Sorry, but I just don't understand the point of that. from the Humane Society: http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdfs/farm/hsus-factory-farming-in-america-the-true-cost-of-animal-agribusiness.pdf Quote:Across the United States, nearly 10 billion land animals are raised and killed each year for meat, eggs, and milk.3,4 (05-01-2012, 08:57 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: I didn't say it mattered who did the filming, just that the reality may be less homogenous than the films portray. I did a little research, to see if maybe you were right - maybe factory farming wasn't as widespread as I thought. I discovered the opposite - it's much worse than I thought! from http://www.farmforward.com/farming-forward/factory-farming Quote:Factory farms, also known as CAFOs (Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations) or IFAP (Industrial Farm Animal Production) facilities,1 can house more than 125,000 animals2 under one roof and are designed to produce the highest possible output at the lowest possible cost to the operator. These farms and their associated industrial slaughterhouses produce “cheap” meat, eggs, and dairy by externalizing their costs. The costs to the public from the ecological damage and health problems created by factory farms are not considered any more than the law requires, and companies have often found it less expensive to pay fines than to alter their methods. For this reason, the true cost of meat is never reflected in the price consumers pay. Animal suffering is given no meaningful consideration except in a few idiosyncratic cases. (05-01-2012, 08:57 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: I think we're all in favor of compassion for animals. I don't get that at all from this thread. RE: In regards to eating meat - BrownEye - 05-01-2012 Quote: You're probably thinking: "That's insane!". Right?That was a very understanding post. I have brought up this very same point. But, at the same time, what we are doing now, is creating our next game. RE: In regards to eating meat - Monica - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 09:14 PM)Valtor Wrote: I did not read the whole thread, but I do not remember even one poster who did not agree that animals deserve compassion. They might not have explicitly said that, but the sentiment seems to be the same. That is the overall impression I have gotten throughout this entire thread. RE: In regards to eating meat - Patrick - 05-01-2012 Incidentally, has any activism ever been shown to actually help promote their cause in the collective? By this I mean getting actual results in what the cause is about. EDIT: I guess this answers my question. http://www.bmartin.cc/pubs/07Anderson.html Quote:Activism has played a major role in ending slavery, challenging dictatorships, protecting workers from exploitation, protecting the environment, promoting equality for women, opposing racism, and many other important issues. Activism can also be used for aims such as attacking minorities or promoting war. RE: In regards to eating meat - Monica - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 09:50 PM)Valtor Wrote: Incidentally, has any activism ever been shown to actually help promote their cause in the collective? By this I mean getting actual results in what the cause is about. Absolutely!! Civil rights, women's rights, end to slavery...gosh most of the advances in human society were birthed in activism. RE: In regards to eating meat - βαθμιαίος - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 08:48 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I disagree. They said they declined the service of the STS entities. They also gave instructions for how the LL team could decline the service. They, Ra, declined the service also. I was thinking about this some more. They said the instinct to protect continues through fourth density. If you think about it, they didn't protect L/L. They advised them, true, but they didn't shield them. Quote:Across the United States, nearly 10 billion land animals are raised and killed each year for meat, eggs, and milk.3,4 So 46% of confined farm animals are produced by the other 95%. In other words, it's not monolithic. Also, they are apparently not counting the non-confined animals. (05-01-2012, 08:48 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I don't get that at all from this thread. It's there, I think. Maybe compassion takes different forms than you expect? RE: In regards to eating meat - Monica - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 07:05 PM)Valtor Wrote: I already did, I co-submitted this question with you. Oh! ![]() (05-01-2012, 07:05 PM)Valtor Wrote: I would agree with you that successfully living by 6d values in 3d is not realist. But I see no problem in trying. I would agree if we were talking about 4D love, or even 5D wisdom. But 6D unity - the merging of the polarities so there is no longer any right and wrong - would seem to negate the purpose of 3D, which is Choice. We're supposed to choose when in 3D. (05-01-2012, 07:05 PM)Valtor Wrote: I already said that I believe animals (and plants for that matter) should be treated with compassion, just like humans. Then the crux of the matter is: Is it possible to have compassion for animals and still kill and eat them? or Is it compassionate to animals to let someone else kill them, and maybe even torture them, so that we can eat them? Killing and eating cannot be separated, for the simple reason that the animal must be killed in order to eat it. Thus, if we are eating it, then we are at least partially responsible for its death. And, the animal didn't want to die - that much is clear. So if we are responsible for its death, then what that means is that we overrode its free will to live, and stole its life. (05-01-2012, 07:05 PM)Valtor Wrote: I understand this. It's simply that I sincerely do not believe that eating meat is the issue here. What is the issue then? (05-01-2012, 08:56 PM)Valtor Wrote: Lets assume for an instant that eating meat is an act that polarizes somewhat in the negative. Have you ever considered that all these animals are evolving much faster toward 3d because of what they go through in their short lives? Sure. But what sort of 3D? I shudder to think of the violent world those creatures will inhabit when they become human...It may make this planet look like a paradise by comparison. shudder (05-01-2012, 08:56 PM)Valtor Wrote: Kind of like us under the influence of the Elites, where we live about 90 years and our normal lifespan should be 900 years. We are evolving much faster because of this negativity. You are forgetting one thing though: It is the task of the STS entities to provide the negative catalyst. It's not our task to do that. Our task is to respond to catalyst in a positive way, not reinforce it. RE: In regards to eating meat - BrownEye - 05-01-2012 Quote: I shudder to think of the violent world those creatures will inhabit when they become human...It may make this planet look like a paradise by comparison.Places like Africa actually. RE: In regards to eating meat - Monica - 05-01-2012 (05-01-2012, 09:54 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: I was thinking about this some more. They said the instinct to protect continues through fourth density. If you think about it, they didn't protect L/L. They advised them, true, but they didn't shield them. If you are attempting to extrapolate from that, that we shouldn't try to shield animals, then I disagree. The objectives are different in each density. It would have been contrary to the purpose of the veil, and contrary to the purpose of 3D experience, to deny LL the opportunity to learn for themselves, how to respond to negative greeting. We are in a totally different situation, so we must discern for ourselves what is appropriate. That is the whole point; we are in the density of Choice. We can't just say "well Ra didn't shield LL so we shouldn't shield the animals" because what Ra did in that case might not apply in this case. That's where choice comes in, and discernment. (05-01-2012, 09:54 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:Quote:Across the United States, nearly 10 billion land animals are raised and killed each year for meat, eggs, and milk.3,4 I think you misread that. What it's saying is that 5% of the farms house 54% of the animals. The factory farms have a disproportionately high percentage of the total animals. In other words, 5% of the farms should house 5% of the animals, roughly. But they house 54%. This means that those 5% of the farms have abnormally high populations, and atrocious conditions for the animals. The small % of farms - 5% - is irrelevant. What is relevant is the majority of animals - 54% - are being raised in these abominable conditions! (05-01-2012, 09:54 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: In other words, it's not monolithic. It wouldn't be monolithic unless 100% of farms were factory farms, which we know isn't the case, so I don't see the relevance of the term monolithic. What is relevant is that it's a majority of the farm animals - 54%, raised in these conditions. That's deplorable. Evil. (05-01-2012, 09:54 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: Also, they are apparently not counting the non-confined animals. Aren't all farm animals confined in some way? They're all confined to a farm of some sort. I don't think they meant 'free range' because that is already covered by the 46%. (05-01-2012, 09:54 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: It's there, I think. Maybe compassion takes different forms than you expect? I don't 'expect' anything but when I hear extensive arguments about how the treatment of animals doesn't matter, and how it's 'ok' to support the torture of them, that doesn't come across as very compassionate to me. On 2nd thought, I guess I did expect something when I first started participating in this thread. I expected that most of the meat-eaters who are spiritually oriented just weren't aware of the atrocious conditions farm animals are subjected to, and I expected that once their eyes were opened, we'd be spending the rest of this discussion brainstorming ways to all work together to decrease animal suffering. I expected that they'd all shows concern and compassion, rather than arguing why they should still have the 'right' to continue supporting the cruelty. Yeah, that's what I expected. Boy was I wrong! That's what I get for having expectations! RE: In regards to eating meat - Monica - 05-02-2012 (05-01-2012, 08:38 AM)norral Wrote: just want to 2nd what diana said. its all about disconnect. lets make it all sanitary and pretty , nothing to see here, no suffering , animals are not people they are animals. yet many animals display a far greater loyalty than human beings do to one another. and they are so so trusting in many cases. they look to us with eyes of pure love. i say if any of us had to work a full day in a slaughterhouse we wouldnt eat meat again for a long long time. and its the same thing with war, pretty cool bombs dropped so accurately designed to minimize civilian casualties. Well said, norral! (05-01-2012, 01:41 PM)Oldern Wrote: Monica, are you familiar with Law of Attraction? Oh yes. And it's displayed ever so clearly in the statistics showing increased disease rates directly corresponding to meat consumption. Eating death attracts death. RE: In regards to eating meat - BrownEye - 05-02-2012 (05-01-2012, 06:01 PM)Valtor Wrote: The person in need of help would get my help. And in so doing, I would indeed try to stop the would-be murderer/rapist. I see this as a misconception by a few here.......... 42.7 Questioner: I would like to try to make an analogy for third-density of this concept. Many entities here feel great compassion for relieving the physical problems of third-density other-selves by administering to them in many ways, with food if there is hunger as there is now in the African nations, by bringing them medicine if they feel that there is a need to minister to them medically, and being selfless in all of these services to a very great extent. This is creating a vibration that is in harmony with green-ray or fourth-density but it is not balanced with the understanding of fifth-density that these entities are experiencing catalysts and a more balanced administration to their needs would be to provide them with the learning necessary to reach the state of awareness of fourth-density than it would be to minister to their physical needs at this time. Is this correct? Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. To a mind/body/spirit complex which is starving, the appropriate response is the feeding of the body. You may extrapolate from this. On the other hand, however, you are correct in your assumption that the green ray response is not as refined as that which has been imbued with wisdom. This wisdom enables the entity to appreciate its contributions to the planetary consciousness by the quality of its being without regard to activity or behavior which expects results upon visible planes. You know that those unseen that bring the reality to us that we demand are always wishing that we would make the right choices. A choice is an action. There is no balance in indifference. There can be decisions made on a balanced perception. Perceiving all of the background construction that went into the action in the moment. What it boils down to is the description of an informed choice. While writing this insight was just given to me about green ray activation. Polarization is even easier than I thought. (05-01-2012, 09:50 PM)Valtor Wrote: Incidentally, has any activism ever been shown to actually help promote their cause in the collective? By this I mean getting actual results in what the cause is about. This made me laugh pretty hard when I got home and read it. ![]() (05-01-2012, 05:16 PM)Valtor Wrote: Do you believe you are contributing to slavery by using money? Probably not, because that is probably not your intent. In the same way you can eat meat without the intent to contribute to animal abuse. I am definitely contributing to slavery. I am also trying to change my ways, knowing that I cannot change the collective in this instance. One benefit is that there are many others that are coming to the same understanding, and many are coming together. Possibly forming a new social complex. I find it beneficial to not accept the failing social complex of modern ways. (05-01-2012, 05:37 PM)Diana Wrote: The money is inert, and does respond to intention in your life. Get more into the "magic" and you will find that it is not "inert". It definitely has an effect just touching us. Just consider the recent rush to pull old money out of the system in order to replace it with new money. New graphics. There is a hidden connection just like there are hidden connections all around us, similar to TV and the web. (05-01-2012, 05:22 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: Retreating within and saying "it's OK" would seem to be included in that it would lighten the planetary consciousness. If by "lighter" you mean less mass, then I would agree. Removing consciousness would be an analog for "lighten". Consciousness does not evolve by removing yourself, unless of course it is your self that is holding back evolution LMAO! ![]() RE: In regards to eating meat - Monica - 05-02-2012 (05-02-2012, 12:52 AM)Pickle Wrote: I see this as a misconception by a few here.......... Very good find, Pickle! More on factory farms. Coming soon to an area near you! Quote:But a new interactive map points out that in many parts of the country, eggs, dairy, and meat products marketed as "local" could actually be coming from a factory farm in your county. Which means some of the local food sold in grocery stores could be from animals raised in inhumane conditions and in such high concentrations that they pollute your local water supply and air. Since many industrial farming operations are inconspicuous—they look like warehouses, with no animals to be seen—many people have no idea that they live near a factory farm, also known as a concentrated animal-feeding operation, or CAFO. The new and improved Factory Farm Map, created by Food and Water Watch, uses color coding and easy-to-understand stats to help consumers find factory-farm hotspots throughout the country. Using U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) data, consumers can easily drill down to the county level to see how many industrial farm animals are in each county of the United States. See map: http://www.rodale.com/factory-farm-map Quote:Number of cows and calves slaughtered every 24 hours in the US: 90,000 More disturbing stats: http://www.organicconsumers.org/foodsafety/shortlist031604.cfm They look like warehouses...with no animals to be seen. They are concentration camps!!! Going on right here, just like in Nazi Germany. It's evil. RE: In regards to eating meat - BrownEye - 05-02-2012 Some Dude Wrote:Definition of COMPASSION RE: In regards to eating meat - Monica - 05-02-2012 Quote:Professor John Webster, Department of Animal Husbandry, Bristol University says: from http://www.factoryfarming.org.uk/dairy.html see also: The Life of a Dairy Cow "Nightline" Exposed Dairy Cruelty Undercover video showed cows abused at N.Y. dairy The Humane Society of the United States Quote:Contrary to the industry's advertising campaign filled with green pastures and happy cows, many of the nation's nine million dairy cows never step on a blade of grass in their lives. Dairy's Dark Side: The Sour Truth about Milk Quote:Far from leading the carefree lives portrayed in the dairy industry's "happy cow" commercials, the vast majority of cows used for dairy production today lead lives of deprivation, confinement, painful mutilations and cruel handling. These curious and intelligent animals are denied access to open pasture and treated as mere milk-producing machines - forced to live on manure-coated concrete floors in overcrowded sheds. |