+- Bring4th (https://www.bring4th.org/forums)
+-- Forum: Bring4th Studies (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Spiritual Development & Metaphysical Matters (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+---- Forum: Transition to Fourth Density (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+---- Thread: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest (/showthread.php?tid=5939)
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - hogey11 - 11-25-2012
Quote:What do ETs have to do with "removing the STS influence"? Why do we need extra-terrestrials to do this? Isn't it just a natural progression of things?
This ties in with David's last post and the main topic of this posting. I put up the 'parable of the harvest' on the first post, and the interpretation stands. Considering Carla's leanings, I don't think going to the bible for deeper context is completely out of line.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - Tenet Nosce - 11-25-2012
(11-25-2012, 10:26 PM)zenmaster Wrote:(11-25-2012, 06:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:That's really not true at all. They were allowed to incarnate because they had a relatively higher probability of harvestability among those compatible with this locale. Big difference.Quote: Yet, we know from Ra that every 3D entity on this planet right now, was allowed to incarnate because they had a reasonable shot at harvestability.
Not my quote... that was Monica's.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - hogey11 - 11-25-2012
Quote:Are the "Illuminati" really being "contained" by the "good-guy" aliens? Or are the changes we are seeing simply the result of people naturally responding to higher vibrations? If so... are these really the "good guys" we are hearing from in these messages?
I don't know for sure, but David makes some very good cases that things aren't working out as planned for those who currently sit in power right now. Could this be a subtle manipulation of geopolitics that are completely unrelated? Maybe, but it would be a masterful thread drawn through all the info if everything from the October Surprise onward has just been a giant coincidence/farce. Again, maybe it is; i'm not convinced of that yet.
As to your question specifically, it could be a bit of both. Illuminati folk could be seeing their plans go haywire right now as people also respond naturally to the rising vibrations of the planet. That's the aspect I don't want to deny through all these debates - it may be that we all are pinning down an aspect of harvest that is true. We're all just directing our attention to different mechanics.
And as far as who we're listening to, the entity in question here is Ra. The language of 'the harvest' could have very well been a clue. I think what I am imagining is less of a 'rescue mission' and more of a 'clearing of obstruction'. We may find that from this year onward, there will be subtle changes to old problems. That's why I've said I don't know exactly what 'disclosure' will entail; we could be face to face with 4D+ ETs or it could all be done behind the curtain until sufficient enough changes in the earth's consciousness have been made. I am not closing myself off to any ideas, but the idea of a perpetual waiting time for people to be 'ready' doesn't make sense to me either. At some point you gotta s*** or get off the can.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - zenmaster - 11-25-2012
(11-25-2012, 11:07 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:But you were thinking it.(11-25-2012, 10:26 PM)zenmaster Wrote:(11-25-2012, 06:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:That's really not true at all. They were allowed to incarnate because they had a relatively higher probability of harvestability among those compatible with this locale. Big difference.Quote: Yet, we know from Ra that every 3D entity on this planet right now, was allowed to incarnate because they had a reasonable shot at harvestability.
Not my quote... that was Monica's.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - hogey11 - 11-25-2012
@Tenet
The other left hook you kept throwing in there had to do with how the whole inner earth scenario might play out... That to me is a giant question mark, but I not sure on it either. Does Ra ever mention an 'inner earth' in the Law of One? (i can't remember any...)
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - Tenet Nosce - 11-26-2012
(11-25-2012, 11:42 PM)zenmaster Wrote:(11-25-2012, 11:07 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:But you were thinking it.(11-25-2012, 10:26 PM)zenmaster Wrote:(11-25-2012, 06:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:That's really not true at all. They were allowed to incarnate because they had a relatively higher probability of harvestability among those compatible with this locale. Big difference.Quote: Yet, we know from Ra that every 3D entity on this planet right now, was allowed to incarnate because they had a reasonable shot at harvestability.
Not my quote... that was Monica's.
Eh? No, actually I wasn't. Your clarivoyant powers haven't quite kicked in yet, methinks!
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - zenmaster - 11-26-2012
(11-26-2012, 01:16 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:Now you know how I feel.(11-25-2012, 11:42 PM)zenmaster Wrote:Eh? No, actually I wasn't.(11-25-2012, 11:07 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:But you were thinking it.(11-25-2012, 10:26 PM)zenmaster Wrote:(11-25-2012, 06:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:That's really not true at all. They were allowed to incarnate because they had a relatively higher probability of harvestability among those compatible with this locale. Big difference.
Not my quote... that was Monica's.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - Tenet Nosce - 11-26-2012
(11-25-2012, 11:31 PM)hogey11 Wrote: I don't know for sure, but David makes some very good cases that things aren't working out as planned for those who currently sit in power right now. Could this be a subtle manipulation of geopolitics that are completely unrelated? Maybe, but it would be a masterful thread drawn through all the info if everything from the October Surprise onward has just been a giant coincidence/farce. Again, maybe it is; i'm not convinced of that yet.
Oh, I definitely think that anybody harboring plans for global domination has found themselves in a rough spot. I just question how much of that is really due to ETs working behind the scenes. I'm not saying there is no help from our "space friends" however I am just skeptical of any specific group that comes forward and takes credit.
Quote:I am not closing myself off to any ideas, but the idea of a perpetual waiting time for people to be 'ready' doesn't make sense to me either. At some point you gotta s*** or get off the can.
Yes, I get that and to a large degree agree. But that's still looking at it from the point of view of those of us living here on earth.
What I'm trying to get at is that there are also concerns on the other side of the equation. There are representatives from multiple civilizations, and they don't all necessarily agree on how and when intervention is appropriate. And beyond this, there is the consideration of how contact with earth people will impact those back home.
This isn't necessarily the best analogy, but it is as if humanity's group mind is infected with a virus. The quarantine is not just about protecting us, but protecting other civilizations from becoming infected.
(11-25-2012, 11:57 PM)hogey11 Wrote: The other left hook you kept throwing in there had to do with how the whole inner earth scenario might play out... That to me is a giant question mark, but I not sure on it either. Does Ra ever mention an 'inner earth' in the Law of One? (i can't remember any...)
17.1 Wrote:Those who remain in fourth density upon this plane will be of the so-called positive orientation. Many will come from elsewhere, for it would appear that with all of the best efforts of the Confederation, which includes those from your peoples’ inner planes, inner civilizations, and those from other dimensions, the harvest will still be much less than that which this planetary sphere is capable of comfortably supporting in service.
Quote:60.21 Questioner: Is the Earth solid all the way through from one side to the other?
Ra: I am Ra. You may say that your sphere is of an honey-comb nature. The center is, however, solid if you would so call that which is molten.
60.22 Questioner: Are there third-density entities living in the honey-comb areas? Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This was at one time correct. This is not correct at this present space/time.
60.23 Questioner: Are there any inner civilizations or entities living in these areas other than physically incarnate who do come and materialize on the Earth’s surface at some times?
Ra: I am Ra. As we have noted, there are some which do as you say. Further, there are some inner plane entities of this planet which prefer to do some materialization into third-density visible in these areas. There are also bases, shall we say, in these areas of those from elsewhere, both positive and negative. There are abandoned cities.
(11-26-2012, 02:06 AM)zenmaster Wrote: Now you know how I feel.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - Tenet Nosce - 11-26-2012
I thought these quotes might bear some relevance to the discussion:
Quote:54.17 Questioner: I would like then to trace the evolution of catalyst upon the mind/body/spirit complexes and how it comes into use and is fully used to create this tuning. I assume that the sub-Logos that formed our tiny part of the creation using the intelligence of the Logos of which it is a part, provides the base catalyst that will act upon mind/body complexes and mind/body/spirit complexes before they have reached a state of development where they can begin to program their own catalyst. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. The sub-Logos offers the catalyst at the lower levels of energy, the first triad; these have to do with the survival of the physical complex. The higher centers gain catalyst from the biases of the mind/body/spirit complex itself in response to all random and directed experiences.
Thus the less developed entity will perceive the catalyst about it in terms of survival of the physical complex with the distortions which are preferred. The more conscious entity, being conscious of the catalytic process, will begin to transform the catalyst offered by the sub-Logos into catalyst which may act upon the higher energy nexi. Thus the sub-Logos can offer only a basic skeleton, shall we say, of catalyst. The muscles and flesh having to do with the, shall we say, survival of wisdom, love, compassion, and service are brought about by the action of the mind/body/spirit complex on basic catalyst so as to create a more complex catalyst which may in turn be used to form distortions within these higher energy centers.
The more advanced the entity, the more tenuous the connection between the sub-Logos and the perceived catalyst until, finally, all catalyst is chosen, generated, and manufactured by the self, for the self.
54.18 Questioner: Which entities incarnate at this time on this planet would be in that category of manufacturing all of their catalyst?
Ra: I am Ra. We find your query indeterminate but can respond that the number of those which have mastered outer catalyst completely is quite small.
Most of those harvestable at this space/time nexus have partial control over the outer illusion and are using the outer catalyst to work upon some bias which is not yet in balance.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - hogey11 - 11-26-2012
Quote:Ra: I am Ra. We find your query indeterminate but can respond that the number of those which have mastered outer catalyst completely is quite small.
Most of those harvestable at this space/time nexus have partial control over the outer illusion and are using the outer catalyst to work upon some bias which is not yet in balance.
My issue with this is that considering the population growth over the last 30 years, I have a hard time believing a large majority of those souls are new 3D souls fresh off the 2D boat. Instead, I think that a larger percentage of those people would be transititionals and wanderers, unless earth had a massive 'at bat' line waiting. (i'll have to go dig up some Ra quotes on this... i feel like they're out there)
It may not be that Ra had any future knowledge of how much help from wanderers earth would receive or what the birth rates would be at. Maybe Ra expected us to pop off a few more nukes than we have? Or are we still a big maybe on the harvest towards a 4d+ planet altogether? Personally, I see a bright future ahead. I see a lot of potential in our young people.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - zenmaster - 11-26-2012
(11-26-2012, 11:35 PM)hogey11 Wrote: It may not be that Ra had any future knowledge of how much help from wanderers earth would receive or what the birth rates would be at."Many will come from elsewhere..."
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - hogey11 - 11-26-2012
do wanderers = harvestables? When Ra has spoke of certain percentages of harvestables or estimations of earth's harvest, are those percentages including wanderers or do we not know?
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - zenmaster - 11-26-2012
I don't see why they would include wanderers.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - hogey11 - 11-27-2012
I guess the question then is 'how many is many?' :p
With the numbers involved, it seems pretty feasible that they could have tipped the scales...
The numbers still weren't great in 1981
Quote:63.10 Questioner: Now, we have I believe, if I remember correctly— I think you said there were 600* million Wanderers, approximately. Am I correct in that memory?
Ra: I am Ra. This is approximately correct. There is some excess to that amount.*
* The correct number in 1981 was somewhat in excess of 60 million. Ra and Don corrected their mistake in Session 64.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - DirndlDude - 11-27-2012
(11-25-2012, 05:31 PM)hogey11 Wrote: The way that you approach your own lessons and catalyst is night and day from how I deal with my own in my life. There's nothing wrong with that. We each are attributed different catalyst and different lessons, and while you may think of this subject as "sad", believe me when I say that you have no right to.
Are there people who are going to have their bags packed up on December 20th, 2012, expecting to get on a spaceship? Yes, there probably will. Will they learn a grand lesson that day? Absolutely. If i'm aware of that lesson, yet I press on anyhow, is it because i'm choosing to be ignorant or is it because I have maybe formulated it different than you have?
According to my walk in life, you have accurately described, without exception, every human on our planet. Cosmological vibrations seem to have disclosed something in us from an indiscernible origin- a 'disclosure' recorded and repeated from Sumer then Egypt then Israel(Bible/Daniel) and so on. I can easily imagine a new vibration arriving at some point with newly disclosed faculties that will change the ways in which we decipher and formulate our surroundings.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - hogey11 - 11-27-2012
Hmmm, kind of a sidetrack here, but I read this old quote and noticed something in the language:
Quote:63.32 Questioner: When the third-density goes out of activation and into potentiation that will leave us with a planet that is first, second, and fourth-density. At that time there will be no activated third-density vibrations on this planet. Am I correct in assuming that all third-density vibrations on this planet now are those vibrations that compose the bodily complexes of entities such as we are; that that is the sum total of third-density vibrations on this planet at this time?
Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working. This instrument has energy left due to transfer but there is discomfort. We do not wish to deplete this instrument. May we say that this instrument seems in better configuration despite attack than previous workings.
To answer your query, this is incorrect only in that in addition to the mind/body/spirit complexes of third density there are the artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings which these co-Creators have produced. This is third density.
According to Ra, "third density" seems to lie in us; not within the planet. Besides M/B/S entities, "third density" is the artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings that we have produced. Notice it says nothing about the planetary entity in any way? third density seems to be purely derived from us and exists within us. Without us, there is no third density on the planet.
In this way, those who bang on the drum of 'we have to do it ourselves' are perfectly correct in that the 4D 'planet' (artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings) will not fully manifest until we have the means to create that reality ourselves. Also though, it opens the possibility that a sudden, inner 'shift' may come (a la the 'sudden' argument) which kicks this outer change into gear. In some ways, I see this as evidence towards a static planetary state that changes as its inhabitants do.
Earlier, I brought up the 'electrically aware' language that Ra uses speaking about transitionals... What does this mean? I started an old thread on the 'difference between 3D and 4D' being a perspective or mindset. If the forgetting was to fade, could we really think in a 3D fashion again? Will the harvest be the forgetting (veil) being removed for all of us with no physical, planetary changes of note at all?
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - zenmaster - 11-27-2012
(11-27-2012, 10:24 PM)hogey11 Wrote: Hmmm, kind of a sidetrack here, but I read this old quote and noticed something in the language:The planet supports "yellow-ray" vibrations as a sub-sub-logos. So yes, "third density" is indeed part of the (3D) planet itself.
Quote:63.32 Questioner: When the third-density goes out of activation and into potentiation that will leave us with a planet that is first, second, and fourth-density. At that time there will be no activated third-density vibrations on this planet. Am I correct in assuming that all third-density vibrations on this planet now are those vibrations that compose the bodily complexes of entities such as we are; that that is the sum total of third-density vibrations on this planet at this time?
Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working. This instrument has energy left due to transfer but there is discomfort. We do not wish to deplete this instrument. May we say that this instrument seems in better configuration despite attack than previous workings.
To answer your query, this is incorrect only in that in addition to the mind/body/spirit complexes of third density there are the artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings which these co-Creators have produced. This is third density.
According to Ra, "third density" seems to lie in us; not within the planet.
(11-27-2012, 10:24 PM)hogey11 Wrote: Besides M/B/S entities, "third density" is the artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings that we have produced. Notice it says nothing about the planetary entity in any way? third density seems to be purely derived from us and exists within us. Without us, there is no third density on the planet.The planet supports the vibrations which in turn support that level of mind. We know "3rd density" through that mind. So yes, without us, there is nothing made of third density - it exists as a template. But no, it is not purely derived from us.
Same situation exists with 4D. The landscape is also created by thought. But with 4D there is more individuation, more of an equanimity of time and space (interiors and exteriors), and more conscious awareness of thought with the potential later on, as experience is gathered, of that same collective mind becoming conscious.
(11-27-2012, 10:24 PM)hogey11 Wrote: Will the harvest be the forgetting (veil) being removed for all of usThe harvest does not remove the veil. The veil is due to the type of connection your body has with your mind. That connection must evolve through use, over time.
(11-27-2012, 10:24 PM)hogey11 Wrote: with no physical, planetary changes of note at all?None.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - hogey11 - 11-27-2012
What if we are confusing what Ra calls the 'body' with our perception or current level of consciousness?
Could a 'more electrical body' be referring to the brain taking fuller control of the body than it does now? Maybe our brain learns to short circuit the chemical processes of the body and more able to create whatever change wanted through thought rather than relying on the chemical biology of the 3D vessel?
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - zenmaster - 11-27-2012
(11-27-2012, 10:53 PM)hogey11 Wrote: What if we are confusing what Ra calls the 'body' with our perception or current level of consciousness?The "body" is a tool used to perceive based on the current level of consciousness. Past 1D, the "body" has both physical and metaphysical (spatial and temporal) components.
(11-27-2012, 10:53 PM)hogey11 Wrote: Could a 'more electrical body' be referring to the brain taking fuller control of the body than it does now?I believe it's simply that there is more awareness in the temporal or metaphysical domain afforded by 4D. So possibly, the construct of the body has more of a presence in the metaphysical domain compared to a 3D entity's presence in its metaphysical domain. Ra emphasized more than once that electrical phenomena exists equally in time as in space.
"19.20 Questioner: Then it would seem that there is a relationship between what we perceive as a physical phenomenon, say the electrical phenomenon, and the phenomenon of consciousness in that they, having stemmed from the One Creator, are practically identical but have different actions. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. Again we oversimplify to answer your query.
The physical complex alone is created of many, many energy or electromagnetic fields interacting due to intelligent energy; the mental configurations or distortions of each complex further adding fields of electromagnetic energy and distorting the physical complex patterns of energy; the spiritual aspect serving as a further complexity of fields which is of itself perfect but which can be realized in many distorted and unintegrated ways by the mind and body complexes of energy fields.
Thus, instead of one, shall we say, magnet with one polarity you have in the body/mind/spirit complex one basic polarity expressed in what you would call violet-ray energy, the sum of the energy fields, but which is affected by thoughts of all kinds generated by the mind complex, by distortions of the body complex, and by the numerous relationships between the microcosm which is the entity and the macrocosm in many forms which you may represent by viewing the stars, as you call them, each with a contributing energy ray which enters the electromagnetic web of the entity due to its individual distortions."
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - Monica - 11-28-2012
(11-27-2012, 10:24 PM)hogey11 Wrote: According to Ra, "third density" seems to lie in us; not within the planet.
Very astute!
(11-27-2012, 10:24 PM)hogey11 Wrote: Besides M/B/S entities, "third density" is the artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings that we have produced. Notice it says nothing about the planetary entity in any way? third density seems to be purely derived from us and exists within us. Without us, there is no third density on the planet.
In this way, those who bang on the drum of 'we have to do it ourselves' are perfectly correct in that the 4D 'planet' (artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings) will not fully manifest until we have the means to create that reality ourselves. Also though, it opens the possibility that a sudden, inner 'shift' may come (a la the 'sudden' argument) which kicks this outer change into gear. In some ways, I see this as evidence towards a static planetary state that changes as its inhabitants do.
Earlier, I brought up the 'electrically aware' language that Ra uses speaking about transitionals... What does this mean? I started an old thread on the 'difference between 3D and 4D' being a perspective or mindset. If the forgetting was to fade, could we really think in a 3D fashion again? Will the harvest be the forgetting (veil) being removed for all of us with no physical, planetary changes of note at all?
All very good points! But we do know that the planet is shifting to 4D too, regardless of whether we go with it or not.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - hogey11 - 11-28-2012
Quote:But we do know that the planet is shifting to 4D too, regardless of whether we go with it or not.
I guess in some ways its a challenge against that tho, in that maybe the 'shift to 4D' happens within us and then is manifested towards the outer world. For those not ready to go to 4D, they continue with their perception unchanged to the end of their incarnation. By necessitating the need for the "3D body" to die, does this simply mean we will go breathless in our sleep one night and wake up 'rewired' in some way? and upon waking, will we interact and see the world in a completely different way as well?
I looked into the multiple sphere activations and the 3D sphere does continue to exist alongside the 4D sphere. Whether the yellow sphere is activated or in potentiation is a completely different matter, and Ra only speaks of incompatibility when they spoke of the 3D and 4D body. From this I am wondering if the reason the two bodies are incompatible is because they 'switch out' or share something that cannot be present in both 'bodies' at once. I still think this ties into the application of the veil and what comes with that - maybe a different activation level of the brain (as we use so little of it now?). Without the veil in it's current form in place, the ability to use 4D skills will become easier for those who have the awareness and talent to do so through intelligent infinity. Thus, we will be able to make the necessary changes to continue to evolve in the 4D world moving forward. Just a thought anyways...
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - AnthroHeart - 11-28-2012
If we don't take our body into 4D, I don't know why I am so compelled energetically to raise my body's vibration by eating healthier and such.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - Ashim - 11-28-2012
(11-28-2012, 10:46 AM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: If we don't take our body into 4D, I don't know why I am so compelled energetically to raise my body's vibration by eating healthier and such.You do not take your body into 4d - you manifest a 4d body.
This is done as you suggest, amongst other things by eating healthy food, laughing a lot and generally enjoying the companionship of otherselves, be in 'in person' or in a forum like this.
You are spot on with your intuition.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - CircleofOne - 11-28-2012
So has anyone read these articles by Daniel? They're highly fascinating.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - Phoenix - 11-28-2012
I see the article I named became a source of conversation. Good good.
Anyway. 50.7 is the data on fourth density.
Feel bad like I'm being less than compassionate (like that very inspiring quote).
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - Wai - 11-28-2012
(11-28-2012, 02:46 PM)CircleofOne Wrote: So has anyone read these articles by Daniel? They're highly fascinating.
Yes, I find them very interesting especially the article on Time and Timelines.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - hogey11 - 11-28-2012
haha i threw in Daniel's name only because David's article was centered around it; after I posted it I realized I never really brought up the material itself that much! we may have touched on it at page 3 or 4 or something
I found the last one (ET/EDs) was really heavy in terms of things that are over my head (physics in general) but had a lot of interesting information at the back end. Still, I enjoy reading the physics stuff, even if I don't understand it all. He definitely seems well studied to this layman.
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - AnthroHeart - 11-28-2012
(11-28-2012, 02:46 PM)CircleofOne Wrote: So has anyone read these articles by Daniel? They're highly fascinating.
Where are these articles?
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - hogey11 - 11-28-2012
http://www.soldierhugs.com/nwo-greatest-crimes-against-humanity/
is where they are being posted i believe...
RE: David Wilcock, Daniel, & The Harvest - reeay - 11-28-2012
Articles by Daniel and some discussion: here