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+---- Thread: Why I am not a vegan (/showthread.php?tid=9869)
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Diana - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 10:53 PM)isis Wrote: the cow i ate some of was named moon & it lived a long & happy life & died of old age...it was a gift...
Then why did you say:
"for dinner tonight i ate the pain, the trauma, the slain, the horror, the stress, the murder, the mess, the voiceless, the caged, the helpless, the raged, the captured, the meek, the terror, the reek, the blood, the gore...& it was medium-rare & it was delicious"
RE: Why I am not a vegan - isis - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 10:58 PM)Diana Wrote:(09-26-2014, 10:53 PM)isis Wrote: the cow i ate some of was named moon & it lived a long & happy life & died of old age...it was a gift...
Then why did you say:
"for dinner tonight i ate the pain, the trauma, the slain, the horror, the stress, the murder, the mess, the voiceless, the caged, the helpless, the raged, the captured, the meek, the terror, the reek, the blood, the gore...& it was medium-rare & it was delicious"
bc of this attachment that monica posted:
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/attachment.php?aid=1266
not all meat is "the pain, the trauma, the slain, the horror, the stress, the murder, the mess, the voiceless, the caged, the helpless, the raged, the captured, the meek, the terror, the reek, the blood, the gore"
i love meat. so does my cat
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Diana - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 11:00 PM)isis Wrote:(09-26-2014, 10:58 PM)Diana Wrote:(09-26-2014, 10:53 PM)isis Wrote: the cow i ate some of was named moon & it lived a long & happy life & died of old age...it was a gift...
Then why did you say:
"for dinner tonight i ate the pain, the trauma, the slain, the horror, the stress, the murder, the mess, the voiceless, the caged, the helpless, the raged, the captured, the meek, the terror, the reek, the blood, the gore...& it was medium-rare & it was delicious"
bc of this attachment that monica posted:
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/attachment.php?aid=1266
I must be in junior high school. Maybe this is the Matrix.
If you post anything further, I, for one, would like truth, not games.
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Monica - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 11:00 PM)isis Wrote: not all meat is "the pain, the trauma, the slain, the horror, the stress, the murder, the mess, the voiceless, the caged, the helpless, the raged, the captured, the meek, the terror, the reek, the blood, the gore"
?? How is any meat not all of those?
(09-26-2014, 11:00 PM)isis Wrote: bc of this attachment that monica posted:
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/attachment.php?aid=1266
You contradicted yourself. First you admitted that you ate all those things, then you said not all meat is all those things.
???
All meat is all those things.
For the record, Isis, this isn't about your eating meat 'once a year.' If more people ate meat only once a year, we'd rejoice! It's about the bragging:
Quote:for dinner tonight i ate the pain, the trauma, the slain, the horror, the stress, the murder, the mess, the voiceless, the caged, the helpless, the raged, the captured, the meek, the terror, the reek, the blood, the gore...& it was medium-rare & it was delicious
That seems really insensitive and even obnoxious, when you know how much we care about the animals, to just flaunt your cavalier attitude like that...to brag that you know full well how much they suffer, but do it anyway because you like the taste. Is this all just a game to you?
RE: Why I am not a vegan - isis - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 11:11 PM)Monica Wrote:i did it bc i thought the words in the image u attached were insensitive, & even obnoxious, bc i don't think all meat is all of those things. i was being sarcastic bc according to your image i did eat all of those things even though the cow i ate wasn't ever in pain, wasn't traumatized, wasn't slain, wasn't in horror, stress, murdered, mess, voiceless, caged, raged...i thought it was a bit much. here's an excerpt from Carla's blog that she posted on the 25th for the fun of it,(09-26-2014, 11:00 PM)isis Wrote: not all meat is "the pain, the trauma, the slain, the horror, the stress, the murder, the mess, the voiceless, the caged, the helpless, the raged, the captured, the meek, the terror, the reek, the blood, the gore"
?? How is any meat not all of those?
(09-26-2014, 11:00 PM)isis Wrote: bc of this attachment that monica posted:
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/attachment.php?aid=1266
You contradicted yourself. First you admitted that you ate all those things, then you said not all meat is all those things.
???
All meat is all those things.
For the record, Isis, this isn't about your eating meat 'once a year.' If more people ate meat only once a year, we'd rejoice! It's about the bragging:
Quote:for dinner tonight i ate the pain, the trauma, the slain, the horror, the stress, the murder, the mess, the voiceless, the caged, the helpless, the raged, the captured, the meek, the terror, the reek, the blood, the gore...& it was medium-rare & it was delicious
That seems really insensitive and even obnoxious, when you know how much we care about the animals, to just flaunt your cavalier attitude like that...to brag that you know full well how much they suffer, but do it anyway because you like the taste. Is this all just a game to you?
Quote:The food was so bad in the hospital that I learned a shortcut to Frisch's Burgers and that was our first stop on the way home. We went through the drive thru and Carla happily munched on a Buddy Boy Burger as we headed to the promised land of home.
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Monica - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 11:23 PM)isis Wrote: i did it bc i thought the words in the image u attached were insensitive, & even obnoxious,
It is factual.
The size of the cage might vary, and the degree of trauma/horror/stress might vary, but ALL cows are killed/slain/murdered. ALL of them. ALL violent death is painful and traumatic. ALL violent death is messy, bloody and gory. ALL 'meat' animals are voiceless, because they have no rights.
(09-26-2014, 11:23 PM)isis Wrote: bc i don't think all meat is all of those things. i was being sarcastic bc according to your image i did eat all of those things even though the cow i ate wasn't ever in pain, wasn't traumatized, wasn't slain, wasn't in horror, stress, murdered, mess, voiceless, caged, raged...i thought it was a bit much.
Do you know what the word slain means? Please tell us how you managed to eat that cow without slaying/murdering her.
(09-26-2014, 11:23 PM)isis Wrote: here's an excerpt from Carla's blog that she posted on the 25th for the fun of it,
Quote:The food was so bad in the hospital that I learned a shortcut to Frisch's Burgers and that was our first stop on the way home. We went through the drive thru and Carla happily munched on a Buddy Boy Burger as we headed to the promised land of home.
Your point? If Carla does it, it must be ok? Have you made Carla your guru? If so, that is a disservice to Carla, because she has stated repeatedly that she doesn't wish to be anyone's guru.
RE: Why I am not a vegan - isis - 09-26-2014
i wrote that mrs. moon died of old age
i have 2 gurus: monica & diana. i'll never eat meat again. once a year is too much
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Unbound - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 11:52 PM)isis Wrote: i wrote that mrs. moon died of old age
i have 2 gurus: monica & diana. i'll never eat meat again. once a year is too much
Crackin' me up here aha
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Diana - 09-27-2014
(09-26-2014, 11:23 PM)isis Wrote: i did it bc i thought the words in the image u attached were insensitive, & even obnoxious,
They were facts concerning commercial animal farming.
(09-26-2014, 11:23 PM)isis Wrote: bc i don't think all meat is all of those things. i was being sarcastic bc according to your image i did eat all of those things even though the cow i ate wasn't ever in pain, wasn't traumatized, wasn't slain, wasn't in horror, stress, murdered, mess, voiceless, caged, raged...i thought it was a bit much.
If you are going to be sarcastic, please be clear about that. We are communicating with words only and nuances such as sarcasm may be lost if you are not very careful with your writing.
How do you think most people would react if you talked about babies or children that way? As concerns other-selves, humans are not the only beings.
Monica Wrote:(09-26-2014, 11:23 PM)isis Wrote: here's an excerpt from Carla's blog that she posted on the 25th for the fun of it,
Quote:The food was so bad in the hospital that I learned a shortcut to Frisch's Burgers and that was our first stop on the way home. We went through the drive thru and Carla happily munched on a Buddy Boy Burger as we headed to the promised land of home.
Your point? If Carla does it, it must be ok? Have you made Carla your guru? If so, that is a disservice to Carla, because she has stated repeatedly that she doesn't wish to be anyone's guru.
I agree with Monica here. I personally make NO ONE my guru. I think for myself and do not follow anyone else, nor do I make anyone else responsible for my decisions. While I respect the work Carla has done for the amazing Ra material, I do not align with supporting an industry that not only sustains cruelty motivated by greed, but also is destroying the rain forests to graze cattle for one or two seasons at the most (then they cut down more rain forest for more grazing land).
I am compelled to reiterate here (for the zillionth time) for those who argue that eating plants is the same as eating animals, eating animals consumes more plant life than we would have to take if we were just eating the plants. Can't anybody even do the math here???????
(09-26-2014, 11:52 PM)isis Wrote: i have 2 gurus: monica & diana. i'll never eat meat again. once a year is too much
I assume you are trying to make a joke here? I don't appreciate it if serious; and I don't appreciate it if sarcastic.
Please leave me out of your abstruse comments. On the other hand, if you would like to honestly address an issue with me, with no mind games, I welcome it.
RE: Why I am not a vegan - isis - 09-27-2014
(09-27-2014, 04:05 AM)Diana Wrote:it wasn't specified...(09-26-2014, 11:23 PM)isis Wrote: i did it bc i thought the words in the image u attached were insensitive, & even obnoxious,
They were facts concerning commercial animal farming.
![[Image: 57593981bb3d1e91cc55271d46bd18ab1f35699c...88aeab.jpg]](http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/57/57593981bb3d1e91cc55271d46bd18ab1f35699c5ba0a6a8daef78bb0388aeab.jpg)
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Monica - 09-27-2014
Isis, if you are trying your best to be offensive with pics of animal body parts, you are failing. We see cut-up animal parts every day on billboards, magazine ads, tv commercials, restaurants and grocery stores. Yes it is sad to see, but it doesn't exactly have any shock value, sorry to disappoint.
This is a Law of One forum. Although people talk about all sorts of things here, the original intention of the forum was discussion about issues in the context of the Law of One.
I keep trying to get the conversation back to a Law of One context, while you insist on bragging about how 'good' animal flesh tastes.
All you're doing is supporting our case, that people eat meat for the taste, rather than caring about the suffering of the sentient other-selves they are eating.
Thank you for reinforcing our point.
(09-27-2014, 04:05 AM)Diana Wrote: I personally make NO ONE my guru. I think for myself and do not follow anyone else, nor do I make anyone else responsible for my decisions. While I respect the work Carla has done for the amazing Ra material, I do not align with supporting an industry that not only sustains cruelty motivated by greed, but also is destroying the rain forests to graze cattle for one or two seasons at the most (then they cut down more rain forest for more grazing land).
I am compelled to reiterate here (for the zillionth time) for those who argue that eating plants is the same as eating animals, eating animals consumes more plant life than we would have to take if we were just eating the plants. Can't anybody even do the math here???????
Exactly.
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Diana - 09-27-2014
(09-26-2014, 11:00 PM)isis Wrote: i love meat. so does my cat
Isis, you and your cat be well. I have regained my cool this morning and apologize for losing it yesterday.
I understand how difficult loving the taste of something can be. But there are usually deeper prompts at work. For instance, I love potato chips and ice cream. In both cases, it is emotional comfort food for me. So if I'm feeling stressed, I want to eat ice cream.
But I know that neither are good for me in any way, except self-medication, and that is a temporary fix with long-term consequences.
Loving meat may have its roots in the fact that meat is full of certain hormones that are released when the animal dies. If, in fact, you ate the meat of a cow who died naturally and was not slaughtered, then the hormones released when an animal is killed and in fear weren't there. However, like me and my comfort foods, you may like meat because you are addicted to the effect it has.
This point is why spiritual leaders are almost always vegetarian. It is a gentler way to live and conducive to spiritual progress. And that is precisely why it's appropriate to talk about here. I am not saying that one can't progress spiritually if eating meat. But like STS, at a certain point one has to make a choice to be STO, or one cannot progress further according to the LOO.
RE: Why I am not a vegan - isis - 09-27-2014
(09-27-2014, 09:26 AM)Monica Wrote: Isis, if you are trying your best to be offensive with pics of animal body parts, you are failing. We see cut-up animal parts every day on billboards, magazine ads, tv commercials, restaurants and grocery stores. Yes it is sad to see, but it doesn't exactly have any shock value, sorry to disappoint.i wasn't trying to my best to be offensive - i wasn't trying to be offensive at all
This is a Law of One forum. Although people talk about all sorts of things here, the original intention of the forum was discussion about issues in the context of the Law of One.
I keep trying to get the conversation back to a Law of One context, while you insist on bragging about how 'good' animal flesh tastes.
All you're doing is supporting our case, that people eat meat for the taste, rather than caring about the suffering of the sentient other-selves they are eating.
Thank you for reinforcing our point.
(09-27-2014, 04:05 AM)Diana Wrote: I personally make NO ONE my guru. I think for myself and do not follow anyone else, nor do I make anyone else responsible for my decisions. While I respect the work Carla has done for the amazing Ra material, I do not align with supporting an industry that not only sustains cruelty motivated by greed, but also is destroying the rain forests to graze cattle for one or two seasons at the most (then they cut down more rain forest for more grazing land).
I am compelled to reiterate here (for the zillionth time) for those who argue that eating plants is the same as eating animals, eating animals consumes more plant life than we would have to take if we were just eating the plants. Can't anybody even do the math here???????
Exactly.
my point is that i feel it's ok to eat meat if you know it had a good history & death
maybe if i eat meat every day like Carla then i'll be granted the ability to channel an alien...i think i'll try to channel a painting
(09-27-2014, 11:38 AM)Diana Wrote:no apology necessary. it's an admirable thing to lose your cool about!(09-26-2014, 11:00 PM)isis Wrote: i love meat. so does my cat
Isis, you and your cat be well. I have regained my cool this morning and apologize for losing it yesterday.
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Monica - 09-27-2014
(09-27-2014, 11:43 AM)isis Wrote: i wasn't trying to my best to be offensive - i wasn't trying to be offensive at all
my point is that i feel it's ok to eat meat if you know it had a good history & death
maybe if i eat meat every day like Carla then i'll be granted the ability to channel an alien...i think i'll try to channel a painting
(09-27-2014, 11:38 AM)Diana Wrote:no apology necessary. it's an admirable thing to lose your cool about!(09-26-2014, 11:00 PM)isis Wrote: i love meat. so does my cat
Isis, you and your cat be well. I have regained my cool this morning and apologize for losing it yesterday.
If more people ate meat only once a year, the world would be a much better place!
(09-27-2014, 11:38 AM)Diana Wrote: I understand how difficult loving the taste of something can be. But there are usually deeper prompts at work. For instance, I love potato chips and ice cream. In both cases, it is emotional comfort food for me. So if I'm feeling stressed, I want to eat ice cream.
I've been a vegetarian for 33 years, and kept dabbling with veganism off and on, but didn't make the commitment to vegan because cheese was a comfort food for me. Ironically, it was the original meat thread, along with Pablisimo sharing info about the addictive substances and hormones in cheese, that got me to go vegan a couple of years ago.
I can't imagine ever eating meat, but cheese was a lot harder because it was a comfort food for me. Being honest about my own struggle with cheese helped me to be more compassionate about people having trouble giving up meat.
That's why I avoid making direct statements about anyone's diet, but prefer to talk about concepts and ideas.
(09-27-2014, 11:38 AM)Diana Wrote: you may like meat because you are addicted to the effect it has.
That, and just simple habit. Habits can be changed, but it takes effort.
Fast food meat is full of hormones which are addictive, cancer-causing, and mood-altering (in addition to being the worst of the worst regarding animal cruelty). A lot of the resistance is the same as smokers resisting info about lung cancer: one who is addicted to a substance will tend to defend it.
(09-27-2014, 11:38 AM)Diana Wrote: This point is why spiritual leaders are almost always vegetarian. It is a gentler way to live and conducive to spiritual progress. And that is precisely why it's appropriate to talk about here. I am not saying that one can't progress spiritually if eating meat. But like STS, at a certain point one has to make a choice to be STO, or one cannot progress further according to the LOO.
Exactly!
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Parsons - 09-27-2014
(09-26-2014, 07:16 PM)Unbound Wrote: We are all eating ourselves.
![[Image: avatar_3082.jpg]](http://bring4th.org/forums/uploads/avatars/avatar_3082.jpg){kind=avatar}
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Billy - 09-27-2014
How do you reconcile being vegan and buying your cat products which support the industry? I've been thinking about trying vegan cat food but I'm not exactly convinced. But with that said I am feeding him commercial cat food, which is arguably not that much better. Is there anything that can be done to I suppose 'aid' the animal which was killed? Sending love/light? Damnit nature, why couldn't we all have just been designed to live off of plants. The logos has got some serious splaining to do. That jerk. Heheh.
On a more general note how does one show gratitude for the food that one eats? Say for example you eat a banana, whats the most loving way of doing so? Maybe something like "ohh banana tree, I give you my gratitude and my thanks for providing me with the energy and well being I need to sustain this body complex". Or maybe I should just scarf it down with a big grin on my face. Damn I need to get out of the house more. Maybe a girlfriend or two would help as well. Ohh you guys.
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Monica - 09-27-2014
(09-27-2014, 08:26 PM)Folk-love Wrote: How do you reconcile being vegan and buying your cat products which support the industry?
I don't. I am unreconciled. It's not a bad place to be though...when one is unreconciled, they don't settle for mere accommodation but continue to seek reconciliation.
(09-27-2014, 08:26 PM)Folk-love Wrote: I've been thinking about trying vegan cat food but I'm not exactly convinced.
I wasn't either and I'm still not sure, but I am hopeful, after meeting someone who is doing it successfully. Did you see my posts about veg cat/dog food in this thread?
(09-27-2014, 08:26 PM)Folk-love Wrote: But with that said I am feeding him commercial cat food, which is arguably not that much better. Is there anything that can be done to I suppose 'aid' the animal which was killed? Sending love/light?
I think the best thing we can do is work to awaken others and put an end to this madness.
(09-27-2014, 08:26 PM)Folk-love Wrote: Damnit nature, why couldn't we all have just been designed to live off of plants. The logos has got some serious splaining to do. That jerk. Heheh.
I am already planning to complain loudly to the Logos about the barbaric design of this planet! I mean it's seriously f***** up. Would you like to join me?
(09-27-2014, 08:26 PM)Folk-love Wrote: On a more general note how does one show gratitude for the food that one eats? Say for example you eat a banana, whats the most loving way of doing so? Maybe something like "ohh banana tree, I give you my gratitude and my thanks for providing me with the energy and well being I need to sustain this body complex". Or maybe I should just scarf it down with a big grin on my face.
I find that when eating mostly raw, I feel a natural high all the time so they are clearly merging their life-force with mine. It's a wondrous feeling of mutual gratitude. No sacrifice was made. It's all pure bliss!
I think the whole idea of blood sacrifice is inherently STS, from the yahweh influence. Eliminating dead animals from one's diet helps to shed that 'curse.'
(09-27-2014, 08:26 PM)Folk-love Wrote: Damn I need to get out of the house more. Maybe a girlfriend or two would help as well. Ohh you guys.
You seem like quite a catch so put out the vibes...you'll find her!
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Billy - 09-27-2014
Haha thanks Monica you're an angel
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Parsons - 09-28-2014
Time for Reverend Maynard to inject a little humor into the debate:
(Audio at the end after the crickets is unrelated, please ignore)
Quote:And the angel of the lord came unto me
snatching me up from my place of slumber.
And took me on high and higher still
until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself.
And he brought me into a vast farmlands of our own midwest.
And as we descended cries of impending doom rose from the soil.
One thousand nay a million voices full of fear.
And terror possessed me then.
And I begged "Angel of the Lord what are these tortured screams?"
And the angel said unto me,
"These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots!
You see, Reverend Maynard,
tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust."
And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat
like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared,
"Hear me now, I have seen the light!
They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul!
Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers!"
Can I get an amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Thank you Jesus.
Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on........
This is necessary.
I feel this song satires both 'sides' of the debate nicely. :p
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Monica - 09-28-2014
(09-28-2014, 05:57 AM)Parsons Wrote: Time for Reverend Maynard to inject a little humor into the debate:
Reverend Maynard eats dead animals and has disdain for vegetarians. The same lame attempt at justification isn't any less lame because someone famous did it.
What MJK thinks of vegetarians
Perhaps you might want to quote Ted Nugent next?
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Diana - 09-28-2014
And here is a contemporary of Tool, Alice In Chains, and a friend of Maynard's, Layne Staley, who wrote the lyrics to Man In A Box inspired from the way calves are treated to make veal.
"Man In The Box"
I'm the man in the box
Buried in my s***
Won't you come and save me, save me
Feed my eyes, can you sew them shut?
Jesus Christ, deny your maker
He who tries, will be wasted
Feed my eyes now you've sewn them shut
I'm the dog who gets beat
Shove my nose in s***
Won't you come and save me, save me
Feed my eyes, can you sew them shut?
Jesus Christ, deny your maker
He who tries, will be wasted
Feed my eyes now you've sewn them shut
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Parsons - 09-28-2014
(09-28-2014, 12:24 PM)Monica Wrote:(09-28-2014, 05:57 AM)Parsons Wrote: Time for Reverend Maynard to inject a little humor into the debate:
Reverend Maynard eats dead animals and has disdain for vegetarians. The same lame attempt at justification isn't any less lame because someone famous did it.
What MJK thinks of vegetarians
Perhaps you might want to quote Ted Nugent next?
You can take my post however you want; my intent was to inject a humorous song into an extremely uptight debate.
You can try to guilt trip me with your 'you are supporting cruelty' and call my eating meat 'STS' all you want. I have considered your argument and all the same pieces of information that you have and come to a different conclusion, so further attempts to say my eating meat is STS/cruel are an attempt to convert/control me. You are entitled to your opinion, although I disagree with both sentiments since I personally feel neither are true.
PS: I must have some catalyst on my plate to love and accept people trying to convert(control) me to their way thinking since I had a very similar experience in Account1's thread.
PPS: I don't get how anyone doesn't find the "let the rabbits wear glasses!" line to be hilarious. :p
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Monica - 09-28-2014
(09-28-2014, 02:26 PM)Parsons Wrote: You can take my post however you want; my intent was to inject a humorous song into an extremely uptight debate.
Your intent? So do you think intent is important? Is it important that I understand your intent and not misrepresent you?
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Diana - 09-28-2014
(09-28-2014, 02:26 PM)Parsons Wrote: PPS: I don't get how anyone doesn't find the "let the rabbits wear glasses!" line to be hilarious. :p
Maynard is clever, intelligent, and a great lyrics writer. I totally respect him as an artist (Sober is one of my all-time favorite songs), and I understand your intention to inject humor.
Try to look at it this way: Most humans only have compassion for humans, really. If you substitute the words in Tool's song to include any cruelty to people, it doesn't stand up—the emotional reaction would change. We are distanced from relating to animal suffering because of a difference in species. So we can look upon plants and animals and the planet and everything "not us" with some amount of detachment. It is like finding out a friend has cancer. You might be devastated, but not as devastated as you would be if it were you, or someone extremely close such as a wife you are really attached to. The degree to which humans react is in proportion to how close the subject is to them personally.
The above is based on general statements about humans. If there are any light beings in the room, I'm sure you are above 3D behavior.
The problem with injecting humor here is that cruelty is involved. Maynard's observations of human behavior are about humans and their follies. The point of this thread is about being vegan and why. Cruelty is the underlying motivation for people such as myself. So while I can appreciate Maynard's humor, it doesn't lighten my mood. Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on........but it is NOT all necessary.
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Billy - 09-28-2014
(09-28-2014, 03:10 PM)Diana Wrote: Try to look at it this way: Most humans only have compassion for humans, really. If you substitute the words in Tool's song to include any cruelty to people, it doesn't stand up—the emotional reaction would change. We are distanced from relating to animal suffering because of a difference in species. So we can look upon plants and animals and the planet and everything "not us" with some amount of detachment. It is like finding out a friend has cancer. You might be devastated, but not as devastated as you would be if it were you, or someone extremely close such as a wife you are really attached to. The degree to which humans react is in proportion to how close the subject is to them personally.
The above is based on general statements about humans. If there are any light beings in the room, I'm sure you are above 3D behavior.
Wow this was really good. Although I don't know about being above 3d human behaviours in their entirety. Unless you're jesus or something.
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Parsons - 09-28-2014
(09-28-2014, 02:53 PM)Monica Wrote:(09-28-2014, 02:26 PM)Parsons Wrote: You can take my post however you want; my intent was to inject a humorous song into an extremely uptight debate.
Your intent? So do you think intent is important? Is it important that I understand your intent and not misrepresent you?
Um, sure... But that sounds like a loaded question.
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Monica - 09-28-2014
(09-28-2014, 05:07 PM)Parsons Wrote:Quote:Your intent? So do you think intent is important? Is it important that I understand your intent and not misrepresent you?
Um, sure... But that sounds like a loaded question.
Ok, so you agree that intent is important. Why, then, are you ignoring my stated intent, in favor of twisting it? Why do you accuse us of trying to control you, after we have repeatedly stated that that is not our intent?
(09-26-2014, 09:29 PM)Monica Wrote:(09-26-2014, 09:05 PM)Unbound Wrote: STS is about control. You're trying to save the animals, but attempting to control humans as you do so. Sounds kind of STS to me. (Yes, that is sarcastic. Figure I should specify since everyone seems to take that s*** seriously.)
Nope. Not trying to control anyone at all. Not my motivation. It may look the same to you, but it's not the same at all. My motivation is only to help the animals.
I couldn't control what others do anyway, even if I wanted to.
(09-28-2014, 02:26 PM)Parsons Wrote: You can try to guilt trip me with your 'you are supporting cruelty' and call my eating meat 'STS' all you want. I have considered your argument and all the same pieces of information that you have and come to a different conclusion, so further attempts to say my eating meat is STS/cruel are an attempt to convert/control me.
PS: I must have some catalyst on my plate to love and accept people trying to convert(control) me to their way thinking
I will spell it out:
I am NOT trying to guilt-trip you. If you are feeling guilt, that has nothing to do with me, Diana, or any of the other vegetarians.
I never called 'your' meat-eating STS. I said meat-eating was inherently STS. It is you who has made it personal, about you. I was never talking about you.
We aren't trying to convert or control you. We are trying to help the animals, whose calls we hear.
Do you see the difference?
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Parsons - 09-28-2014
(09-28-2014, 03:10 PM)Diana Wrote:(09-28-2014, 02:26 PM)Parsons Wrote: PPS: I don't get how anyone doesn't find the "let the rabbits wear glasses!" line to be hilarious. :p
Maynard is clever, intelligent, and a great lyrics writer. I totally respect him as an artist (Sober is one of my all-time favorite songs), and I understand your intention to inject humor.
Try to look at it this way: Most humans only have compassion for humans, really. If you substitute the words in Tool's song to include any cruelty to people, it doesn't stand up—the emotional reaction would change. We are distanced from relating to animal suffering because of a difference in species. So we can look upon plants and animals and the planet and everything "not us" with some amount of detachment. It is like finding out a friend has cancer. You might be devastated, but not as devastated as you would be if it were you, or someone extremely close such as a wife you are really attached to. The degree to which humans react is in proportion to how close the subject is to them personally.
The above is based on general statements about humans. If there are any light beings in the room, I'm sure you are above 3D behavior.
The problem with injecting humor here is that cruelty is involved. Maynard's observations of human behavior are about humans and their follies. The point of this thread is about being vegan and why. Cruelty is the underlying motivation for people such as myself. So while I can appreciate Maynard's humor, it doesn't lighten my mood. Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on........but it is NOT all necessary.
If you have found a way to not feed on life to survive, by all means, fill me in. Plants are alive, are they not?
(09-28-2014, 05:19 PM)Monica Wrote:(09-28-2014, 05:07 PM)Parsons Wrote:Quote:Your intent? So do you think intent is important? Is it important that I understand your intent and not misrepresent you?
Um, sure... But that sounds like a loaded question.
Ok, so you agree that intent is important. Why, then, are you ignoring my stated intent, in favor of twisting it? Why do you accuse us of trying to control you, after we have repeatedly stated that that is not our intent?
(09-26-2014, 09:29 PM)Monica Wrote:(09-26-2014, 09:05 PM)Unbound Wrote: STS is about control. You're trying to save the animals, but attempting to control humans as you do so. Sounds kind of STS to me. (Yes, that is sarcastic. Figure I should specify since everyone seems to take that s*** seriously.)
Nope. Not trying to control anyone at all. Not my motivation. It may look the same to you, but it's not the same at all. My motivation is only to help the animals.
I couldn't control what others do anyway, even if I wanted to.
There is conscious intent and subconscious intent, which don't necessarily agree. The easiest way to recognize subconscious intent is to recognize the mirror of repeating catalyst.
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Monica - 09-28-2014
(09-28-2014, 05:22 PM)Parsons Wrote: If you have found a way to not feed on life to survive, by all means, fill me in. Plants are alive, are they not?
This has been addressed ad nauseum. Please read the posts I posted earlier, if you truly want an answer to that. We have answered it, repeatedly.
(09-28-2014, 05:22 PM)Parsons Wrote: There is conscious intent and subconscious intent, which don't necessarily agree.
Are you now accusing me of having the subconscious intent to control/convert you??? Seriously???
Wow
(09-28-2014, 05:22 PM)Parsons Wrote: The easiest way to recognize subconscious intent is to recognize the mirror of repeating catalyst.
The catalyst that YOU are experiencing has a message for YOU. I don't accept your projection onto me. I know what my own intent is, just as you know what your own intent was with that post by MJK.
Note: Post #147 has been edited.
RE: Why I am not a vegan - Diana - 09-28-2014
(09-28-2014, 05:22 PM)Parsons Wrote: If you have found a way to not feed on life to survive, by all means, fill me in. Plants are alive, are they not?
Perhaps you are new to this thread and the others concerning eating animals vs. plants.
If you have any interest, there is a wealth of opinion and information in this thread and the closed but accessible, In Regards to Eating Meat, and A Friendly Conversation Exploring Omnivorous vs, Vegetarian, and in many other places on this forum.
In general, both plants and animals are alive with consciousness (as are all things). But there are a lot of differences, which seem relevant if one is to make choices based on compassion (the prerequisite for 4D).