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+--- Thread: Biased view of STS...and INFINITY (/showthread.php?tid=89)
RE: Biased view of STS - paddy - 09-27-2009
Quote:...I see rules as binding but principles as liberating. What you just said...to follow your heart and give love in every moment...I would say that is a principle offered as a tip!...
I ponder the idea of each as creator, and consider the very basic acts such as a heartbeat as being very close to a breath. Much of the time these may be considered autonomous functions. When I ponder so, I consider the body as built of phi geometry, an irrational number associated to beauty. I then imagine the heartbeat and the breath, beyond the obvious functions of the cardiovascular system, as ringing the geometries of the body in phi harmonics which contain the propensity for triggering the feelings of love. And so on a very basic mundane level just being alive as a human being may be a service of some sort. It may be that likewise that much of the time, such service is unconsciously, subconsciously, or autonomously STO.
paddy
RE: Biased view of STS - Experience You - 08-22-2010
This relates to Ra's teachings but it is mostly from my experience and intuition from 4-5-6 densities that i am able to accesses in my awareness.
Albeit with not full remembrance.
STS entities (the ones that have accessed infinity intelligence gateway) view other-self as part of All that Is but as an inferior manipulatable part of itself, That is especially in 4 Th density where they take power from having slave like entities for their will.
5Th negative density entities because of the degree of awareness they now have, are much more easily able to see the self in the other-selfs and because of the distortion of choice they shrunk in self (as what they perceive self to be) so they can look more intently to the self and to the creator as they advance in awareness.
Awareness brings power and it is much more easy to change polarities but that does not mean they will do it, since they can use the light to strengthen their will to be as they wish to be. Works both ways. Free will.
Obviously 5 th density encompass the other densities in order of power awareness and will.
6Th once negative now unpolarized Mid-Late Density entities have compounded so much of the experience of self that it gets increasingly heard to not see all self as selfs in unity. As ONE.
STS path is a work of love for self, they wish desperately to know and realize the self, the path ultimately leads to that end of a whole SELF.
Because there is only one SELF to begin with.
From 6 density you view the STS as a profound work of love in discovering the self. Although based in a distortion of separation of other selfs. Which happened trough the access to infinite intelligence, free will and unconditional love from 8-7-6 densities
From 6 density you view STO as path of seeing the Self in the other Self in a more integrative holistic way, it still is a distortion because there is only one SELF.
So you ask why STS is valid ? Because it is the work of the self not accepting the illusion of other selfs. But in doing so it self mutilates and causes pain to itself.Because it does not recognizes free will from the whole SELF that compartmentalizes itself into many-ness )
The STO is valid because it is the integration of all that you are in all degrees of illusions.
Both ways always lead to SELF and infinite intelligence, the path based on free will and unconditional love.
I feel unity and am able to recognize love in all selfs no matter the polarity because we are all ONE WILL, ONE thought.
IF what i shared does not serve you please disregard it.
RE: Biased view of STS - unity100 - 08-22-2010
sts is as evil as it can be. just look around the world you are living in and see what is happening.
it is easy to talk about oneness, this that from a higher density perspective, while everything is in the past. however while living the effects of it, they are as hard, cold and real they can be.
'it spiritually teaches us' is a misplaced appreciation too. everything teaches spiritually. there is no way to manifest in a universe and not learn.
trillions of entities have graduated this octave, while there was no sts polarity around. there are innumerable ways to teach and learn.
RE: Biased view of STS - Experience You - 08-22-2010
There is no past, a 6 density entity is always aware of everything "bellow" or "inside" it.
You are not getting away from earth you are integrating it as a whole again. The whole You.
There is no here and there , past and future, the more aware you are the more You ARE.
You only experience change because of the lack of awareness>distortions. Witch is confusion, hence free will.
Edit: Please disregard anything i say if it does not work for you.
This is my truth, my soul, my bones, my blood, i speak as it, you can accept or not my now moment.
RE: Biased view of STS - unity100 - 08-22-2010
if there is no past, there cannot be any kind of effect of the past in the present.
if there are any kind of state, change, or result that occurred as a result of the 'nonexistent' past in your present, even if in 6d, then it means that there was not only a 'past', but also all the present has been shaped by it.
and, there is time in 6d and further. time means change compared to change, and whenever change exists, there exists time, in whatever fashion.
RE: Biased view of STS - Experience You - 08-22-2010
All realities are like a film slide, you can view it one slide per second , many slides per second, or the whole film at once.
Past>Present>Future is the slides moving , if you view the whole film there is no past and future then. Just Now.
6th density is totally non-physical, time and space as you know it make no sense, all the future/past/present conception ends in the 5th density.
If you want to use the word time as in becoming more aware of you, then fine, but it makes little sense to me.
You don't have points to compare, you constantly being, being aware, aware and aware.
The concept of time is within you, the illusion of it, you are still experiencing it in the lower densities.
I can't go beyond 6th density at the moment because that is as far i am aware right now.Albeit my awareness of it is not total.
6th density is where the experience of unity begins and many paradoxes are balanced.
There are things you just can't write, i cant translate into words. Without making a horrible job of it.'
That's it for now.
I am, me the personality, experiencing time, definitely. I am in Late 3D to 4D estate. (as personality) That does not mean information from my high- self does not reach me if i allow it.
I also know that upon death and or change of awareness (no need to experience death per see) "completely remember 6 th density" but then i am the already aware 6th density or us, seams a paradox no haha
What i mostly feel from the 6 th density beside a profound remembrance of Self is the Unity that binds us all, the idea, the thought , the love, the will... hmm
I don't mean this as dogma or absolute reality so you obviously are free to not accept it.
RE: Biased view of STS - unity100 - 08-22-2010
it doesnt matter whether 'all realities are a film slide'.
what matters is, those realities not only exist, but they also define what you are at any given point. even at the point of infinity, for infinity, infinity consists of infinite numbers of different 'film slides' that are all there, and combine together to form the resulting infinity.
that also includes the concept time, in whatever form you decide to take it. it is real, it is there. if it wasnt here, infinity wouldnt be infinity.
and no, there are a lot of concepts which we can put into words without losing their meaning and immediate consequences. one of them, is the Law of One which results as a corollary of infinity - > infinity exists, there is only one infinity, because infinite needs to be infinite in all respects, all things existing and nonexisting have to be part of that infinity, and hence everything is part of a single infinite existence. that is the Law of One. intentionally and needlessly mystifying simple concepts, do not lead to enlightenment.
similarly, time is a parallel concept. time is change in state of things, compared to change in state of other things. the resulting measure of change, is considered time.
therefore, if, another entity has moved from 1st suboctave of 6th density to 3th suboctave of 6th density during the change in which a 6d entity moved from the 4th sub octave of 6th density to 5th sub octave of 6th density, that means a certain amount of time passed in between the two events.
both entities are different from how they were now, that means, there is a past that exists, and there is a present, and there will, a naturally be a future.
RE: Biased view of STS - Experience You - 08-22-2010
But you don't move, there is no where to move to. You are non-physical
I said there is the experience of time as in a physical like reality and then there isn't , because of the level of the awareness of the "entity" The 6th density SELF never leaves anywhere it is encompassing everything that you would call movement, it is your present-past and future, it is now.
6 th density wanderer is not a 6 th density entity going down "here" or moving per see to a 3th density, it is just the infinitesimal part of awareness compartmentalized as the reality you would call a human living on earth. 6 th density is also your planet, all humans in it, the whole galaxy, the universe, multiverse and beyond. All thought that it encompass basically.
So there is only movement as long there is not enough awareness.
But there is also movement because the late 6 th density Self is all other selfs "bellow" experiencing all sort of polarities creations etc.
It is both.
6th density entities experience creation instantly, we use the concept of time to say how one being goes from point A to point B, from this to that.
But when everything is instant you don't need time to create things, to understand them, so what use is there of time them ?
Time uses points of reference, but in unity you don't have references anymore you are really opening up to all that is and God knows what happens now ? !
I have no idea what 7 th density like existence is like, but is very close to I AM (well i know there are some channels that have talked about it) but i don't have any actual remembered experience per see in it. Not right NOW
Also you have to remember that a late 6 th density entity is unity Now ! Witch means no other self, no other point of reference to compare. It is unity towards infinity more then ever.
I know you point the from 6 th to 7 th to 8 th density there is "change" but i do not experience it that way.
There is more awareness of being, of I AM , but it is very hard to me to divide it.Talk about change when everything is happening NOW. Things just ARE, you just ARE.
This is not intellectual masturbation for the sake of it, i am really experiencing some of this.
As always feel free to disagree.
RE: Biased view of STS - unity100 - 08-22-2010
you are physical.
there is no 'physical' or non physical. everything is the same energy, just in different vibrations and states. hence, everything is one. 'less physical' 'more physical' doesnt change the fact that if something exists, it exists.
'time' is not something related to 'movement'. time is change. even when taken in movement context, time is still comparison of the change in the position of a certain entity or number of entities in regard to each other, to the change in the positions of other entities in regard to each other. you take the latter as the measure, and you name the other change as 'x units of movement happened in x time'.
it is ironic that you are taking these concepts, ie, movement, time, in their 3d related forms while talking on 6d. movement, change, time, are still same concepts. they just look different than what they seem to be in 3d. however, they are still there.
you are way overexaggerating 6d.
look at the sun above you. it doesnt belong to any density, it manifests in all densities. yet, it still manifests, does activity, creates, both in space/time, and time/space. it is the manifestation of the local creative node of what you call intelligent energy.
since it still manifests, creates, even experiences time, that means any manifestation , regardless of density, will be able to create, experience time, and manifest, even if it is much faster than compared to a lower density. ratios may change, balance does not.
there cannot be any concept like 'unity now' for 6d.
feeling of unity, and being in unison, are two different things. the first is an emotion and meaning carried by the indigo vibration and energy of 6d, the latter is a reality, a state of being.
and the latter cannot be ever attained for any kind of manifestation than infinity itself. it will take infinite amount of time for any finite entity to attain that state, that means, an infinite creation/manifestation will be going on throughout an infinite amount of time towards that goal.
you are not experiencing this. you are feeling it. had you been actually experiencing total unity, unison, you wouldnt be able to even manifest, because you would be infinite, and you would be totally irrelevant to any kind of lesser manifestation below you, including the infinite intelligence, what some call god.
in short, the feeling of things, and actual state and manifestation of those things, need not be the same.
RE: Biased view of STS - Shemaya - 08-22-2010
Hi Experience you,
Just curious...has this awareness always been with you, ie. since you were born? Or did it develop through your life after a series of events, or an awakening or specific experience?
I think you are doing a pretty good job putting your experience into words, and it is helpful for others to get a glimpse into it. Without actually knowing what you are experiencing, I can only understand it from my own perspective in reading your words, and my intuitive sense of what you are saying. In that regard I would find it hard to disagree with your experience.
Thanks for sharing!
RE: Biased view of STS - Experience You - 08-23-2010
Hey Shemaya
The awareness i am right now, or the degree i realize being it, happens right now.
I understand your question asking for a time frame, when i am not much aware i would say," Recently my level of awareness has increased"
But when i am AWARE, i just AM. Aware. Lol
Which one is truth ? Both.
How could we, you, i, not be aware. ;D
I don't mean this as, someone that is aware to someone that is not. Like "oh behold me so wise and knowing !!! " sort of crap.
Love E
RE: Biased view of STS - Experience You - 08-24-2010
Unity
I've been trying to clarify this further for both our sakes
So
Let's start on what we agree:
The same consciousness that is me is also you which is also everything that is.
Now:
Time is a self imposed constraint on the consciousness, hence the more aware you are the less time you have and more space instead.
The more aware you are the less time you have and the more space there is, up to the point you become/are infinity.
You are aware of everything, there is no change anymore hence no time.
There is not even a NOW per see because, well there is no reference for it.
You could say now, yesterday and tomorrow and it would be meaningless.
So a late 6th density, beginning 7th is really close to or about this. Towards no time and infinite space instead.
Does that work for you ?
RE: Biased view of STS - unity100 - 08-24-2010
(08-24-2010, 12:51 AM)Experience You Wrote: Unity
I've been trying to clarify this further for both our sakes
So
Let's start on what we agree:
The same consciousness that is me is also you which is also everything that is.
it is not the 'same consciousness'. actually, it cannot even be 'conscious' because, even being conscious is a distortion from the state of infinity.
infinity, is just is. it actually even isnt. it is both at the same time, so, you cant name it as 'is', or 'isnt', leave aside conscious or unconscious.
to outside observer like us, or anything below it as principle (which probably includes infinite intelligence, aka what some call god), it would probably appear as ultimate stillness.
Quote:Time is a self imposed constraint on the consciousness, hence the more aware you are the less time you have and more space instead.
The more aware you are the less time you have and the more space there is, up to the point you become/are infinity.
You are aware of everything, there is no change anymore hence no time.
There is not even a NOW per see because, well there is no reference for it.
You could say now, yesterday and tomorrow and it would be meaningless.
So a late 6th density, beginning 7th is really close to or about this. Towards no time and infinite space instead.
Does that work for you ?
it doesnt work for me. because your perception of time is still in days, in years, in regard to rotations of this planet and its revolving around its sun.
time, is change. in the above case, you compare the change in positions and inside nature of the planet to other changes in positions and natures of other planets or entities. time, is comparison of change.
so, as long as ANY kind of change exists, time also exists. even if it slows down a lot, or it speeds up a lot, time will keep existing. it isnt 'self imposed' or anything. it is there, because things change. as long as there are at least two entities that can be compared, time will exist. 'entity' here includes ANYthing beyond infinity as principle. ie, also infinite intelligence.
closing in on infinity from any point will not change the existence of time. it may get compressed or inflated a lot, but it will still exist, and proportions probably will never change.
moreover technically, it is to the contrary ; the more your spiritual mass gets larger, ie 'aware' you are, the less space you have, and the more time you have.
however, even if you reach the point of infinity from that route, it still wouldnt change the end result ; finite entity can never be infinity, it will take infinite time for it to reach infinity by expanding in spiritual mass. therefore, what probably happens at the end of 7d is not going back to infinity, but, going back to infinite intelligence, the principle 1 level below infinity.
'being one with all that there is' sentence has an important catch -> you can be one with all that there IS. ie, things that exist. you cant be one with things that there is not.
existence, itself is a distortion from the point of infinity.
moreover, there will always be a now, there will always be a reference point, because, the now you speak of had existed at one particular continuum, a point. it DOES exist, hence, it is also part of the infinity. along with whatever complementary counterpart it has in infinity to complete it to absolute stillness, it does exist.
'now' not existing would mean that something does not exist in infinity. which, would be impossible, because, infinity needs to be infinite. hence, everything needs to exist, and everything needs to not exist - everything existing needs to be complemented by its counterpart to total stillness and balance, even if this equilibrium can only be attained by merging infinite numbers of existences and their counterparts. this is a long topic probably in itself, but the point is simple :
if you know something had existed at ANY point, it will keep existing forever at that point, even at point infinity. it means that, whatever it was, even if a concept or thought, even if a state of matters, that thing, is a part of infinity. and for infinite to be infinite, it will keep forever existing at that point in the continuum.
even when you pass to 4 octaves later, the 'now' you speak of at this particular point in time, the state of all this universe and all the galaxies and solar systems and planets and the entities living in it and all accompanying situations, entities events feelings and emotions in time/space and space/time, will keep forever existing at this particular nexus.
RE: Biased view of STS - Experience You - 08-24-2010
Unity
Consciousness encompass everything that exists, It does not matter if there is or not infinity before consciousness.
There is definitely the concept and the experience of void and nothing in consciousness but not the actual non-existence, existence already encompass everything that exists, not non-existence.
So the total consciousness that is me is also you, you can't escape from it, Time as you understand is a constraint, and is self imposed, meaning lack of awareness. You misunderstand me if i think i am talking about rotations of planets or the movement of your hand.
I will repeat existing "forever"does not make sense, There is no point of reference in total awareness, things just are. You are and then you are and then you are. From 3d this looks, like "forever" but i will remind you from total awareness everything just IS, any movement comes from focusing at some part of the awareness and disregarding others.
From time like perspective you have to say existence is eternal, but from existence itself you don't have.
As i said there is only the experience of time, the experience of time is not existence itself, same way there is no beginning or ending.
Our primal nature is to be unconditional, unlimited and all encompassing, all condition and limitation is within us.
We are both but in order we are first Infinite awareness and then everything else.
You are free to disagree but i think i have said everything i had to say, i thank you for expressing your thoughts on the subject and showing me a different perspective.
What i know is what i know but i don't think i know much at all lol
Love E
RE: Biased view of STS - unity100 - 08-24-2010
(08-24-2010, 11:58 AM)Experience You Wrote: Unity
Consciousness encompass everything that exists, It does not matter if there is or not infinity before consciousness.
it does matter whether there is or not infinity before consciousness.
because, if there is infinity before consciousness - and there is - it means that consciousness is not infinite.
Quote:There is definitely the concept and the experience of void and nothing in consciousness but not the actual non-existence, existence already encompass everything that exists, not non-existence.
that is an imbalanced approach favoring consciousness. it just doesnt want to accept and admit that there should be a full complementary counterpart of consciousness, completing it to infinity.
you are basically saying here is that, there cant be the antithesis of consciousness and existing.
Quote:So the total consciousness that is me is also you, you can't escape from it, Time as you understand is a constraint, and is self imposed, meaning lack of awareness. You misunderstand me if i think i am talking about rotations of planets or the movement of your hand.
i dont see any explanation, rationale, or logic from where this 'time is a self imposed constraint' comes from. it just flies in thin air so far.
in regard to time being lack of awareness, that also flies in thin air ; you were a rock or an element a few dozen billion years ago, you have become a 2d entity for a few billion years, then a 3d entity, now you are an entity that has this amount of consciousness.
during all this process your consciousness, awareness has risen, yet, time, which is actually change, has still remained there. you havent at all freed yourself from it.
assuming you go to a higher density existence soon, things will happen much faster, thoughts will become things much faster in the density you are in, and you will think that time is now less of a factor for you, but, that would be just irrelevant : because everything happens faster, change also happens faster. while you are thinking and manifesting or experiencing x amount of concepts/ideas/emotions, the entities inhabiting your density are also doing the same as fast as you, so, your experience of time as a measure of change will not just go away.
rotations of planets, movements are also change. they are just happening much slower in this plane of existence. however, they are as real as anything else.
Quote:I will repeat existing "forever"does not make sense, There is no point of reference in total awareness, things just are. You are and then you are and then you are. From 3d this looks, like "forever" but i will remind you from total awareness everything just IS, any movement comes from focusing at some part of the awareness and disregarding others.
'things just are', 'you are' do not hold any meaning. they are just words.
nothing 'just is' except infinity. anything below it, experiences, changes, and moves forward, including infinite intelligence, which everything draws their consciousnesses from.
had i been 'what i am', i wouldnt have come to this existence and this octave in this particular nexus and manifest as thus, despite i have already merged with infinite intelligence at the end of last octave.
yet, me, you, and everything manifesting here have not only come again from the earlier octave, but also put so many densities in between the last density of last octave and theirs. last density of last octave, if you remember, happens to be the first of this, ie, red spectrum.
the entities there, are still merged and 'one' with infinite intelligence. yet, they not only move on, progress, but also as a result of this, change.
that basically means, they were not 'just' they are, since they have changed so much from being a rock, to becoming a 3d entity or any other density entity.
moreover, all of these entities will again go to the 8th density of this octave, which happens to be the 1st of the next octave, even changing further.
so, even at the point of 8th density, which is approximately 2 densities above the 'unity' meaning density of 6th and the 'i just am' density of 7th which you seem to be referencing to, will STILL be changing and morphing and progressing further.
if everything 'just is', they would stop at 7th density. they do not.
this doesnt change how does this look when looked from the perspective of 3rd density either - 7d and 8d entities will STILL change and transform and move on, towards an infinite fate. that means, at the given point, they just 'were not'.
and just like there is time now in this octave, there will be time in the next octave. if, time 'was not', as you claim to be, there wouldnt be time in this octave, because, this octave is no different from the infinite other octaves before, and after this one. this is just another octave.
Quote:We are both but in order we are first Infinite awareness and then everything else.
You are free to disagree but i think i have said everything i had to say, i thank you for expressing your thoughts on the subject and showing me a different perspective.
What i know is what i know but i don't think i know much at all lol
Love E
it seems to me you are just leaning heavily and imbalancedly on the existence side.
RE: Biased view of STS - turtledude23 - 08-27-2010
[I withdraw my statement, I was ill-informed of what STS is and was quick to judge.]
RE: Biased view of STS - Peregrinus - 08-27-2010
(08-24-2010, 01:15 PM)unity100 Wrote: this doesnt change how does this look when looked from the perspective of 3rd density either - 7d and 8d entities will STILL change and transform and move on, towards an infinite fate. that means, at the given point, they just 'were not'.
I agree with all you said brother, though this statement above seemed somewhat muddied to me. Did you mean, simply put "What is, will always be, and cannot be isn't", or something to that effect?
All experience is recorded. All thoughts are recorded. All emotions are recorded. This is the purpose of the Akash, so that nothing is lost, infinitely.
RE: Biased view of STS - unity100 - 08-28-2010
I think the only thing that 'there is' and infinite, is infinity. nothing aside from infinity, is actually infinite. this includes one principle below it, infinite intelligence, aka, what someone call god, and what everything draw their consciousness from.
Because infinite intelligence is not truly infinite in nature, it learns, experiences itself, and experiences octaves and creates. Had it truly been infinite, it would engage in no activity. because, activity and inactivity, experience and being oblivious, would be contained within it equally, and there would be a total equilibrium, leading to nothing happening, whereas everything also happens.
To me it seems that infinite intelligence is discovering infinity.
RE: Biased view of STS - Deekun - 08-28-2010
I don't see STS as necessarily evil. A lot of focused people are by nature STS, not because they are evil or going out to get someone. Some could have been brought up that way, strict parents with good backgrounds expecting the best of their child and posing a lot of pressure for the best. I mean look at how Russian schools were, removing children from their homes and placing them under government's watchful eye so they could be solid scientists, mathematicians, artists, etc.
Look at Wall Street, a lot of those people go through their whole lives being extremely competitive to get ahead in life and make "something" of themselves.
They don't just overnight decide " I'm going to be evil when I grow up", it's more a mentality of " I will be the best!". By doing so they are serving themselves but they are also serving those below them all the way down to the person that cleans the offices.
STS are the movers and shakers that make decisions that employ millions or enslave, depending on your context of work. As much as some may be doing their best to put their own needs first, they still have others above them making decisions as well.
So I would think rather than saying "oh I don't want to be STS, that's bad", you should think rather in ways STS and STO really are working together to move a form/working to create something. Take a look once in a while at what STS decisions you make on a daily basis, you would be surprised to see how much we do ourselves to facilitate our lives. Just as people can have their inventions perversed, there are those that find good uses for the same inventions. Internet being one good example.
RE: Biased view of STS - Peregrinus - 08-28-2010
(08-28-2010, 06:29 AM)unity100 Wrote: I think the only thing that 'there is' and infinite, is infinity. nothing aside from infinity, is actually infinite. this includes one principle below it, infinite intelligence, aka, what someone call god, and what everything draw their consciousness from.
Because infinite intelligence is not truly infinite in nature, it learns, experiences itself, and experiences octaves and creates. Had it truly been infinite, it would engage in no activity. because, activity and inactivity, experience and being oblivious, would be contained within it equally, and there would be a total equilibrium, leading to nothing happening, whereas everything also happens.
To me it seems that infinite intelligence is discovering infinity.
Because my understanding is different from yours in that I have seen The One Creator in the darkness, alone and by Itself, having The Original Thought, and beginning to create that which we know as Creation, I ask you to consider that The One Creator always was, and always will be, thus It IS infinite. Before It thought, It was, and when it is finished thinking, if that happens, It will still be. That is infinity.
The One Creator's Original Thought, however, this Creation, had a beginning, and it may have an end, so it is finite. I might think, within the confines of third density ape mind logic, that The One Creator could not discover or know of Itself before the Original Thought, but apparently this is not so either. It can and does have perception of Itself before it thought, though there really isn't much to know. It just was.
RE: Biased view of STS - unity100 - 08-30-2010
anything that does any activity, is not infinite. infinity would need to contain even that activity of 'creating' and the entity named as 'creation', and therefore, it would be impossible for it to engage in the activity of creating something.
RE: Biased view of STS - Ali Quadir - 08-30-2010
But if activity exists, and it clearly does, then according to your own definitions it must exist in infinity.
It just looks different from that perspective since it's a timeless perspective... Just like kinetic motion. You'd think time would be a requirement. But xeno's paradox clearly indicates that such a view of motion is flawed. From science we now know that this is indeed true. An object can be moving even if there is no time.. It won't be in different positions at different points of time. Time does not exist to separate the events. So it will be in all positions.
The same goes for activity. The infinite is extremely active, because if it were not, there could be no activity anywhere. The idea that activity requires time to exist must be flawed.
And it goes for consciousness. The source is conscious. Again, it has to be, for if the source does not contain consciousness there can be no consciousness. Your beliefs are different. It's okay but it should be remembered that within the infinite perspective many different perspectives exist. But the idea that what you call the infinite cannot have consciousness or intelligence can't be right... If it doesn't have that... Then where does it come from?
You can see it like a prism. The infinite light contains all colors. For these different colors to become manifest you need to distort the infinite light into different rays of different colors. Events become separated in time. Consciousness becomes separated in levels or density.
RE: Biased view of STS - unity100 - 08-30-2010
yes, activity exists, and it is part of infinity. however, infinity cannot create anything, for, anything to be created also already exists in infinite different states in infinity. hence, no activity of creating or experiencing is possible for infinity..
time, activity are way too low level concepts at this level of observation. they are just entities, existences within infinity.
you havent read what i was saying in detail it seems.
infinity has to contain both consciousness, and unconsciousness. anything that is in infinity, has to have a complementary counterpart to complete it to full balance. the entities making up a balanced situation may be broken to infinite amount of entities, hence, infinite amount of entities may need to come together to create a balanced situation in regard to themselves. but still, in the ultimate situation there will be balance, there neither 'will be' or 'will not be'.
with your prism example :
in infinity the light is there, its counterpart, whichever is not light is also there, the light is separating to infinite colors and it already have, and yet it will, and whatever is the complementary situation that fully complements that light's activity also has occurred, is occurring and going to occur.
in short ; infinity cannot create anything, experience anything, because everything is already there inside it, and also not.
RE: Biased view of STS - Ali Quadir - 08-30-2010
(08-30-2010, 07:07 AM)unity100 Wrote: in short ; infinity cannot create anything, experience anything, because everything is already there inside it, and also not.
But you are experiencing and creating.. And if you are, then infinity must be too.
Similar to motion outside of time. Infinity can still be creating even if what it is creating is already present. This process distorted to our perspective is what we call creation and in our perspective it causes something before nonexistent to become existent. Or something that is existent to become non existent.
It's all the same principle. But creation and change are part of the infinite. Even if it requires distortion for us to perceive it in the way we do.
There's different ways of looking at this. And as there are different ways of seeing it the conviction that it is what you see it to be is not to your best interest. The ape mind is 3d... It is incapable of perceiving anything above 3d. In order to perceive something above 3d, it will first be distorted to 3d, and then seen.
But, like Peregrinus says, there is another way of seeing. Creation is now. The original thought is now.
RE: Biased view of STS - unity100 - 08-30-2010
i am experiencing and creating, therefore, i am not infinite. being a part of infinite, and being infinite inwards, or, being infinite as an element in principle doesnt allow me to encompass entire infinity. else, there wouldnt be any need for anything existing beside me, and experiencing or creating anything. yet, see, there you are, there the monitor is, there is the bird entity flying outside. they exist. therefore, i am not infinite.
you cannot create if what you are creating is already present. if what you are creating is already present, it means, it is already present and created. motion outside time is not something outside infinity. motion, and time are still concepts within infinity.
everything is part of the infinite. yet no part of it, can be infinite themselves. all of its parts only can constitute infinity.
if ape mind is incapable of perceiving anything above 3d, we should immediately close up this forum, dispose all Ra material related books and writings, and stop talking about them.
ALL of what's therein, is related to higher densities and stuff that can be perceived with higher density perspectives, including anything that is related to 3d. that includes the Law of One, everything being one. if thinking everything is one, is distorted, then its pointless to do that then. yet, here you are, doing that ....
3d for 3d means, 'i exist, and others than me exist'. that is the base principle of this.
..................
this doesnt change with density or octave. there is infinity. infinite is infinite. anything that is not infinite is part of the infinite. that includes anything different than infinity. it doesnt matter whether you think about this with the 'ape mind', it doesnt matter whether you think about it with the collective mind of a 6d society complex, it doesnt matter whether do you think about is with any cognitive tool 2 octaves later - infinity will still be infinite. and anything that is not infinite, will have to be parts of it forever, to constitute infinite with their infinite numbers.
RE: Biased view of STS - Ali Quadir - 08-30-2010
(08-30-2010, 08:30 AM)unity100 Wrote: i am experiencing and creating, therefore, i am not infinite. being a part of infinite, and being infinite inwards, or, being infinite as an element in principle doesnt allow me to encompass entire infinity.It actually does... This is called the holistic principle.
Look at it this way. As soon as you have a closed infinite whole as you suggest where nothing can come in and nothing can leave. Then any subset that becomes manifest must immediately manifest it's conjunct...
Not only do you exist... Your existence defines the universe as you experience it.... See the two halves? The ancients described this: "As above so below" Now nothing in you or your conjunct can be changed without changing the other.
Quote: else, there wouldnt be any need for anything existing beside me, and experiencing or creating anything. yet, see, there you are, there the monitor is, there is the bird entity flying outside. they exist. therefore, i am not infinite.The bird entity exists within your perspective therefore it exists... The bird has it's own perspective and existence. But this is not the same as yours. The monitor has it's own perspective and existence. But again it's not the same as yours. Some parts of what you'd call internal to the bird would be internal to you, others would be external. Parts of what you'd call external to the bird would be internal to you and other parts external... At any rate, the way you perceive the bird depends completely on what you are and your perspective. You could even say that the perceived "birdness" is implicit to you, and much less to the bird.
Quote:you cannot create if what you are creating is already present. if what you are creating is already present, it means, it is already present and created. motion outside time is not something outside infinity. motion, and time are still concepts within infinity.I don't deny that they are concepts within infinity.. In a way you're denying that.. You're claiming that the infinite cannot create thus creation is not part of the infinite. I claim it can. I claim that the process of creating as seen in our 3d experience is a distortion of the process of creating as it would be seen in 7d or 8d..
I used Xeno's paradox as related to motion to clarify things. When the infinite creates.. It is not like in 3d where something appears to suddenly begin existence... It is that "within the infinite the conditions are such that" finite creatures with a particular perspective can perceive this sudden start of existence. And this is creation from the perspective of the infinite... Cool isn't it?
In a way it's similar to the peekaboo game babies play... Their simpler perspective means you do not exist when you're not visible. To them you're really appearing and disappearing. Creating and destroying yourself.
Quote:everything is part of the infinite. yet no part of it, can be infinite themselves. all of its parts only can constitute infinity.This is your understanding. I believe it to be wrong. Every single part IS the whole.. Look up Indra's pearls....
Quote:if ape mind is incapable of perceiving anything above 3d, we should immediately close up this forum, dispose all Ra material related books and writings, and stop talking about them.I know, you believe there is nothing but ape mind.. You've explained this on various occasions. I told you in those occasions that I believe there is more. You never accept that or even entertain the idea... So I won't explain it to you now.
Do understand that I didn't claim ape mind cannot PERCEIVE anything above 3d... I claimed it cannot perceive anything above 3d in an undistorted fashion. Similar to the dimensions in math. You can very much perceive a 4 dimensional cube... But to you it'd be a curious 3 dimensional shape.
We can perceive 8th density in it's totality like any 8th density entity could. Just not in an undistorted fashion.
Quote:this doesnt change with density or octave. there is infinity. infinite is infinite. anything that is not infinite is part of the infinite. that includes anything different than infinity. it doesnt matter whether you think about this with the 'ape mind', it doesnt matter whether you think about it with the collective mind of a 6d society complex, it doesnt matter whether do you think about is with any cognitive tool 2 octaves later - infinity will still be infinite. and anything that is not infinite, will have to be parts of it forever, to constitute infinite with their infinite numbers.Oh it matters a great deal.....
When I raise the hand on my right, and you're in front of me you see the hand to the left of me move up. If you were behind me you'd see the hand to the right of me move up...
Perspective is one of the primary distortions... It's obvious that perspective matters. Without perspective it is either impossible to perceive anything at all, or we perceive a thing in it's totality, unfolded along all it's possible perspectives.
Either way, the differences between looking at something from 3d and looking at something from 6d the way I understand them are enormous.
In fact if you look at us two, different entities presumably of the same density. We're also seeing things from different perspectives.
RE: Biased view of STS - unity100 - 08-31-2010
(08-30-2010, 10:27 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: It actually does... This is called the holistic principle.
Look at it this way. As soon as you have a closed infinite whole as you suggest where nothing can come in and nothing can leave. Then any subset that becomes manifest must immediately manifest it's conjunct...
therein lies a problem. you cant 'close' infinity. infinity is infinite. whatever that can be or has been or will be is already existing in the infinity. 'nothing can come in and nothing can leave' are invalid, in infinity, there are states exist where everything can leave, and everything can come. 'being able to come' and 'leaving' are also concepts that exist in infinite varieties within infinity.
just as monica puts it aptly, if you can name and identify something, and give it any kind of attribute, it cant be infinity. because, infinity cannot have any attribute pertaining to its own entirety, other than being infinite.
Quote:Not only do you exist... Your existence defines the universe as you experience it.... See the two halves? The ancients described this: "As above so below" Now nothing in you or your conjunct can be changed without changing the other.
my existence, along with all the entities existing in this universe, and along with all the entities existing outside this universe but affecting it, and the entities which are wherever they are but affecting those entities that are affecting the entities affecting this universe, are all creating and defining this universe.
its not only 'me'.
Quote:The bird entity exists within your perspective therefore it exists... The bird has it's own perspective and existence. But this is not the same as yours. The monitor has it's own perspective and existence. But again it's not the same as yours. Some parts of what you'd call internal to the bird would be internal to you, others would be external. Parts of what you'd call external to the bird would be internal to you and other parts external... At any rate, the way you perceive the bird depends completely on what you are and your perspective. You could even say that the perceived "birdness" is implicit to you, and much less to the bird.
the bird, regardless of my or its perspective, still exists, even in the manner you speak about.
the understanding of that existence being different from our mutual perspectives, doesnt make the existence of the bird go away. it makes, perception of that existence and its effects in regard to internal spiritual world, different. yet, the effect exists, therefore, an entity doing that effect exists.
Quote:I don't deny that they are concepts within infinity.. In a way you're denying that.. You're claiming that the infinite cannot create thus creation is not part of the infinite. I claim it can. I claim that the process of creating as seen in our 3d experience is a distortion of the process of creating as it would be seen in 7d or 8d..
im not claiming, im saying that, infinity cannot create. the supposed activity of creation, creating that the infinity is supposed to take, has to already exist within infinity BEFORE any act is taken, for infinity to be infinity before that. therefore, because, already that state, action, not only as in the state of existing entities that were to be a result of that creation, but even the concepts of creating, and creation, and entity also exist within the infinity itself.
the only way to be infinite, is to be infinite in every way. therefore, everything that can and cannot be exist within infinity, and therefore, no kind of action or activity can be undertaken, because, even the concepts we call action, activity are concepts within infinity.
im not saying creation is not part of the infinite by the way. that is your misplacement. what im saying is, what i said above.
anything that can engage in ANY kind of activity, cannot be infinite.
anything that can be identified by adding ANY kind of adjective to the concept infinity, cannot be infinite.
Quote:I used Xeno's paradox as related to motion to clarify things. When the infinite creates.. It is not like in 3d where something appears to suddenly begin existence... It is that "within the infinite the conditions are such that" finite creatures with a particular perspective can perceive this sudden start of existence. And this is creation from the perspective of the infinite... Cool isn't it?
In a way it's similar to the peekaboo game babies play... Their simpler perspective means you do not exist when you're not visible. To them you're really appearing and disappearing. Creating and destroying yourself.
this is where our planes of discussion fall apart and cant meet. you are still applying concepts within infinity to infinite, and actually trying to measure or arrange it and compare it.
you cannot compare infinity. even the concept comparison, is something that exists within infinity, because infinity, is infinite.
paradox is a concept that exists within infinity. also, its counterpart also exists within infinity. because, infinity needs to be infinite.
anything that you can name or think of or use, has to be concepts or entities (both are same actually) existing within infinity. none of them can be infinity, and, also, no state that any of these can describe or identify, can be infinity in its entirety.
only infinite number of concepts and their counterparts can come together to form infinity. that is infinite.
it would be easier if you have dropped this motion, time, movement, space understanding filled approach to infinity, and just reduce all of them to concepts, and everything to concepts and then analyze on these.
the key is, for infinite to be infinite, anything and nothing, has to be within it. nothing aside from infinity, can constitute infinity in any manner or form.
Quote:This is your understanding. I believe it to be wrong. Every single part IS the whole.. Look up Indra's pearls....
if every single part was the whole, there would be no creation or anything else, because everything would be the same.
definition of infinity makes infinity impossible to manifest in any form but infinity. this includes the so called 'illusory' finities.
yet we stare at our monitors now. things, exist, in the manner we know so far from the concept 'existence'. therefore, everything is not the whole.
Quote:I know, you believe there is nothing but ape mind.. You've explained this on various occasions. I told you in those occasions that I believe there is more. You never accept that or even entertain the idea... So I won't explain it to you now.
Do understand that I didn't claim ape mind cannot PERCEIVE anything above 3d... I claimed it cannot perceive anything above 3d in an undistorted fashion. Similar to the dimensions in math. You can very much perceive a 4 dimensional cube... But to you it'd be a curious 3 dimensional shape.
then that would also apply to your understanding of every finite thing being the infinite whole themselves.
Quote:Oh it matters a great deal.....
When I raise the hand on my right, and you're in front of me you see the hand to the left of me move up. If you were behind me you'd see the hand to the right of me move up...
Perspective is one of the primary distortions... It's obvious that perspective matters. Without perspective it is either impossible to perceive anything at all, or we perceive a thing in it's totality, unfolded along all it's possible perspectives.
ali,
we are talking about infinity. not its infinite number of sub distortions.
there is nothing not to perceive about it as a concept, with ape mind, there is nothing differing in the concept's perception in 6th density, there wont be any difference in concept's perception in 7 octaves later than this creation :
infinity, is infinite. for it to be infinite, everything has to be parts of it. 'thing' here being even concepts, thoughts, ideas, laws of nature, any kind of thing that can be interacted with. and also, things that cannot be interacted with.
in short
'infinity, is infinite'
Quote:Either way, the differences between looking at something from 3d and looking at something from 6d the way I understand them are enormous.
infinity doesnt change its nature from where you look at it. it still is infinite, before you look at it, and after you look at it. even the concept of looking at something, contemplating, thinking about it or perception are things that are in infinity.
RE: Biased view of STS - Ali Quadir - 09-01-2010
(08-31-2010, 05:10 PM)unity100 Wrote:No, you don't understand. I never said you can close infinity. I just suggested it is closed in the way that nothing can go in or go out. It is an isolated system in the sense that there is no possible system outside of it. This is your definition of infinity I just rephrased it.(08-30-2010, 10:27 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: Look at it this way. As soon as you have a closed infinite whole as you suggest where nothing can come in and nothing can leave. Then any subset that becomes manifest must immediately manifest it's conjunct...
therein lies a problem. you cant 'close' infinity. infinity is infinite. whatever that can be or has been or will be is already existing in the infinity. 'nothing can come in and nothing can leave' are invalid, in infinity, there are states exist where everything can leave, and everything can come. 'being able to come' and 'leaving' are also concepts that exist in infinite varieties within infinity.
Quote:Again, you missed the point... I said your existence defines the universe AS YOU EXPERIENCE IT... If you don't exist there is no experience for you. If your existence changes then the other entities that are affecting the universe affect your experience in a different way.Quote:Not only do you exist... Your existence defines the universe as you experience it.... See the two halves? The ancients described this: "As above so below" Now nothing in you or your conjunct can be changed without changing the other.
my existence, along with all the entities existing in this universe, and along with all the entities existing outside this universe but affecting it, and the entities which are wherever they are but affecting those entities that are affecting the entities affecting this universe, are all creating and defining this universe.
its not only 'me'.
Therefore YOU define the rest of the universe. All other possibilities and existences. Whether Schrödinger's cat is dead or alive depends on your perspective. Which alternative timeline did you follow? Where are you in time space and probability?
This is relatively simple temporal physics lol.. Never watched doctor who?
Quote:Existence is relative, something exists relative to you. Does Schrödinger's cat still exist? Or is he dead? I don't know... Where are you?Quote:The bird entity exists within your perspective therefore it exists... The bird has it's own perspective and existence. But this is not the same as yours. The monitor has it's own perspective and existence. But again it's not the same as yours. Some parts of what you'd call internal to the bird would be internal to you, others would be external. Parts of what you'd call external to the bird would be internal to you and other parts external... At any rate, the way you perceive the bird depends completely on what you are and your perspective. You could even say that the perceived "birdness" is implicit to you, and much less to the bird.
the bird, regardless of my or its perspective, still exists, even in the manner you speak about.
Quote:the understanding of that existence being different from our mutual perspectives, doesnt make the existence of the bird go away. it makes, perception of that existence and its effects in regard to internal spiritual world, different. yet, the effect exists, therefore, an entity doing that effect exists.I hope I've showed you now that this is true only from a very limited 3d perspective, not from a multidimensional perspective.
Quote:Quote:I don't deny that they are concepts within infinity.. In a way you're denying that.. You're claiming that the infinite cannot create thus creation is not part of the infinite. I claim it can. I claim that the process of creating as seen in our 3d experience is a distortion of the process of creating as it would be seen in 7d or 8d..
im not claiming, im saying that, infinity cannot create.
You're saying :
Infinity cannot create...
Everything that exists exists inside infinity. Nothing is apart from infinity.
Ergo, nothing can create.
Yet humans can create as evidenced by the existence of that word and your argument is therefore wrong.
Quote:the supposed activity of creation, creating that the infinity is supposed to take, has to already exist within infinity BEFORE any act is taken, for infinity to be infinity before that. therefore, because, already that state, action, not only as in the state of existing entities that were to be a result of that creation, but even the concepts of creating, and creation, and entity also exist within the infinity itself.You're right here... That which is created must exist within infinity... Therefore, from the perspective of infinity... As I already explained. The principle of creation an infinite perspective is vastly different from what we think it to be....
You deny the relevance of perspective. You ignore the potential that different perspectives which seem to be contradictory can still exist.
Quote:anything that can engage in ANY kind of activity, cannot be infinite.Not true... Obviously not true... If a single human can jump over a fence. Then humanity has the ability to perform the "jump over a fence" act... If elements inside infinity can create.. Then infinity can create.
Because it looks different from two perspectives doesn't mean the act is different.... For example, if you're learning from Ra, or you and Ra are learn/teaching.. There is no difference in the act or interaction. Just a different perspective.
Quote:No I'm not... I'm comparing two perspectives. That's why I use the word... Perspective.Quote:I used Xeno's paradox as related to motion to clarify things. When the infinite creates.. It is not like in 3d where something appears to suddenly begin existence... It is that "within the infinite the conditions are such that" finite creatures with a particular perspective can perceive this sudden start of existence. And this is creation from the perspective of the infinite... Cool isn't it?
In a way it's similar to the peekaboo game babies play... Their simpler perspective means you do not exist when you're not visible. To them you're really appearing and disappearing. Creating and destroying yourself.
this is where our planes of discussion fall apart and cant meet. you are still applying concepts within infinity to infinite, and actually trying to measure or arrange it and compare it.
Quote:paradox is a concept that exists within infinity. also, its counterpart also exists within infinity. because, infinity needs to be infinite.This is what I said earlier... That you define your counterpart by who you are... Since infinity needs to be infinite everything that defines you immediately defines your counterpart.
Quote:it would be easier if you have dropped this motion, time, movement, space understanding filled approach to infinity, and just reduce all of them to concepts, and everything to concepts and then analyze on these.You can't understand infinity without these concepts. It's like studying humans by ignoring those pesky emotions.
Quote:Again... unless you take perspective into account... All the different things are the same things in different TIME SPACE POSSIBILITY vectors... This is why they are different things to you!Quote:This is your understanding. I believe it to be wrong. Every single part IS the whole.. Look up Indra's pearls....
if every single part was the whole, there would be no creation or anything else, because everything would be the same.
Quote:definition of infinity makes infinity impossible to manifest in any form but infinity. this includes the so called 'illusory' finities.Exactly.... So explain why I exist... I am part of the infinite am I not? Because if I was not, the infinite would not be infinite it would be infinite minus me. Yet you claim the infinite cannot manifest. And yet it does because I am very clearly manifest.
Quote:yet we stare at our monitors now. things, exist, in the manner we know so far from the concept 'existence'. therefore, everything is not the whole.Can you not see it has to be? Those illusory finities you mention ARE the infinite.. There is nothing else that can be.... Ergo you are infinity. I am infinity, everyone here is infinity.
The Law of One... Not the law of many things that complicatedly work together... ONE...
Quote:True.. Ape mind has no chance to understand.. Unless it is guided by something else, other than ape mind... Something many people use with reliable repeatable results. Like I said, it's been explained before, you've always rejected the reality of that thing.Quote:Do understand that I didn't claim ape mind cannot PERCEIVE anything above 3d... I claimed it cannot perceive anything above 3d in an undistorted fashion. Similar to the dimensions in math. You can very much perceive a 4 dimensional cube... But to you it'd be a curious 3 dimensional shape.
then that would also apply to your understanding of every finite thing being the infinite whole themselves.
Quote:Quote:Either way, the differences between looking at something from 3d and looking at something from 6d the way I understand them are enormous.
infinity doesnt change its nature from where you look at it. it still is infinite, before you look at it, and after you look at it. even the concept of looking at something, contemplating, thinking about it or perception are things that are in infinity.
Here again you ignore the existence of perspective... Perspective and relativity...
You may think that the infinite is unchangeable.. And this is correct. But your understanding of it is not.. You may think that the infinite can only exist in one way. But your perspective on it changes as you evolve through the densities.
I'm perfectly fine with your not subscribing to the idea. I'm not putting this down to convince you... I'm guessing there are various opinions on how this works... Yours is not the only one, and yours is not the only correct one, as far as I am concerned.
It's that perspective thing... You have a certain point of view, I have another... My point of view is guided by my experiences. Peregrinus describes his by stating "I have seen The One Creator in the darkness, alone and by Itself, having The Original Thought, and beginning to create that which we know as Creation" He didn't say he deduced this with logic... Experience you makes it clear that this is not intellectual masturbation he has experienced this. They saw it. I agree with them... I've seen this same principle too. The logic you see above is adapted to convert that experience into third density concepts, it is not a substitute for the experience.
Monkey mind has little chance of figuring out the eternal variables... Fortunately monkey mind is not all we have. You seem to think it is all we have... You are wrong there.
RE: Biased view of STS - Monica - 09-01-2010
(09-01-2010, 11:40 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: You're saying :
Infinity cannot create...
Everything that exists exists inside infinity. Nothing is apart from infinity.
Ergo, nothing can create.
Yet humans can create as evidenced by the existence of that word and your argument is therefore wrong.
If I may interject here...
It's all about perspective. The way I understand what unity100 is saying, he is attempting to describe infinity from infinity's perspective.
Sure, elements within infinity can create...but infinity can't create because all of creation is already included in infinity. There can be no separation, no distortion, else it wouldn't be infinity.
Infinity cannot manifest. However, parts of infinity can manifest.
If I'm understanding you correctly, Ali, what you're saying is that, if an element of infinity can do something, then infinity can do it, since the element is included in infinity. I do understand your point, in that it may seem reasonable to assume that the whole would include all its parts. However, that still is residing in the concept of distortion. To even say that there are parts of the whole, implies separation, distinction, distortion. That is indeed true from OUR perspective, but it is true from infinity's perspective? I think not.
If I'm understanding unity100 correctly, what he's saying is that, as soon as you define an element of infinity, it's no longer infinity you are describing; thus, no amount of describing or defining can ever be applied to infinity. Infinity cannot be subdivided, else it's no longer infinity! The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao. To attribute even the attribute of being able to create, cannot be applied to infinity. This doesn't negate your accurate statement that elements of infinity can indeed create. It may just be a matter of semantics. Or, it may be that the concept of absolutely zero description, zero distinction, zero distortion...is difficult to describe with words. We are attempting to name the eternal Tao, which cannot be done, no matter how you slice it, no matter how you justify it. It's no longer the Tao.
(09-01-2010, 11:40 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote:Quote:infinity doesnt change its nature from where you look at it. it still is infinite, before you look at it, and after you look at it. even the concept of looking at something, contemplating, thinking about it or perception are things that are in infinity.
Here again you ignore the existence of perspective... Perspective and relativity...
You may think that the infinite is unchangeable.. And this is correct. But your understanding of it is not.. You may think that the infinite can only exist in one way. But your perspective on it changes as you evolve through the densities.
Respectfully, I don't think either of you are ignoring perspective. You're just focusing on a different perspective. It appears to me that you, Ali, are making the point that OUR perspective changes (which I agree with), while unity100 seems to be making the point that infinity's perspective never changes. Unity seems to be attempting to describe infinity's perspective.
And, if I'm understanding unity100 correctly, he's saying that infinity has no perspective, because the very concept of perspective indicates distortion. Since infinity has no distortion, it cannot have perspective either.
This, it is appropriate to ignore perspective when describing infinity. Perspective only applies to distortions of infinity, not to infinity.
(That's my perspective, anyway!
)Quote:You are wrong
Boys, boys! How about we leave out the 'you are wrong' and just try to see the other person's perspective?
RE: Biased view of STS - unity100 - 09-01-2010
(09-01-2010, 11:40 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: No, you don't understand. I never said you can close infinity. I just suggested it is closed in the way that nothing can go in or go out. It is an isolated system in the sense that there is no possible system outside of it. This is your definition of infinity I just rephrased it.
i didnt misunderstand. what you are missing is, infinity is a concept that includes going in, going out, and 'going out of infinity' and 'going into infinity'. the definition of infinity requires it to be infinite in all respects.
you are still considering infinity like as if it was some entity. it is not an entity. it is not even a concept. it is something that has the very thing we know as 'concept' as a subset, including the concept known as a 'subset'.
Quote:Again, you missed the point... I said your existence defines the universe AS YOU EXPERIENCE IT... If you don't exist there is no experience for you. If your existence changes then the other entities that are affecting the universe affect your experience in a different way.
that is if i dont exist in the manner we know existence to be in this particular universe, continuum, locale.
if, i happen to be anything else, any concept within infinity, then my interactions would be relevant to whatever set that holds my concept. that includes existence, as a concept.
the very thing we know as existence is defined in a certain way. if you dont interact with anything, you dont exist.
Quote:Therefore YOU define the rest of the universe. All other possibilities and existences. Whether Schrödinger's cat is dead or alive depends on your perspective. Which alternative timeline did you follow? Where are you in time space and probability?
This is relatively simple temporal physics lol.. Never watched doctor who?
first of all, these are all concepts, laws, governances related to our own locale even within this universe. they may or may not be universal for this universe, the chances are low that they are not valid elsewhere, even in parallel universes.
secondly, i cannot 'define' universe, without having anything to define it with. my 'experience's and perception of the events outside me, are still given to me as concepts within this universe. i need the concepts to perceive the universe, and that includes the concept we know as 'perception'.
if there wasnt the concept perception given, i wouldnt be able to perceive anything, including me, myself.
Quote:Existence is relative, something exists relative to you. Does Schrödinger's cat still exist? Or is he dead? I don't know... Where are you?
refer to above.
even the concept existence is something given for this universe, and how many other concepts/creations/locales it is given to.
Quote:I hope I've showed you now that this is true only from a very limited 3d perspective, not from a multidimensional perspective.
no, you havent, for you are just trying to perceive infinity, with the concepts and tools that are native to this particular universe. this includes the concept what we know as 'physics'.
with that approach, your mind gets limited to whatever perspective you are using, and you only stay in that boundary.
.........
like in the earlier discussions, you need to break all the perceptive basis you are using, for venturing forth into infinity.
infinity, is infinite. any that is not infinite in its entirety, even the concept we call as 'entirety', has to be subsets of it.
this is where it starts.
Quote:You're saying :
Infinity cannot create...
Everything that exists exists inside infinity. Nothing is apart from infinity.
Ergo, nothing can create.
Yet humans can create as evidenced by the existence of that word and your argument is therefore wrong.
infinity cannot create. even the concept 'create' is contained within infinity, in its infinite number of forms.
a subset of infinity, is finite, and it is not infinity.
a human, is a subset of infinity. none of them, are infinite.
Quote:You're right here... That which is created must exist within infinity... Therefore, from the perspective of infinity... As I already explained. The principle of creation an infinite perspective is vastly different from what we think it to be....
infinity doesnt change with perspective. it needs to be infinite in all regards.
'creation from an infinite perspective' is also another concept, a thing, that is found within infinity in its multiple forms. the act, which you are attributing to infinity, is a subset of it. not only that, but it has all of its forms already present therein, making it impossible for infinity to be anything different than itself, containing every other of the forms of what you speak about.
Quote:You deny the relevance of perspective. You ignore the potential that different perspectives which seem to be contradictory can still exist.
'perspective', 'potential', 'different', 'ignoring', 'contradiction' are all concepts that exist in infinite number of forms, within infinity.
even the entire concept you name in the above quote, is also a subset of infinity.
therefore, it is impossible for infinity, to be anything but infinity, holding and containing all of these, already in their infinite forms.
thus, infinity cannot be anything than itself. it cannot engage in anything, it cannot be anything, it cannot have a perspective, it cant contradict, because infinity contains infinite forms of all of these, and being any different than this, would mean that it is not infinite anymore, since it wouldnt be able to contain any other forms of that particular concept.
like in the zen example sometimes voiced in this forum ; if you can name it, its not zen.
if you can put any adjective to something, it cannot be infinity. infinity, is infinite.
Quote:Not true... Obviously not true... If a single human can jump over a fence. Then humanity has the ability to perform the "jump over a fence" act... If elements inside infinity can create.. Then infinity can create.
and again, humanity is not infinite.
infinity, before that humanity jumped over a fence, had contained the concept you know as jumping, concept you know as humanity, concept you know as time, and the infinite number of forms of the concept you name as 'a single human jumping over a fence'.
infinity didnt jump. one of its subsets, interacted with another. while that was happening, infinite number of variations of that happening was happening in infinite different forms, and had had happened, and were going to happen, within infinity.
Quote:This is what I said earlier... That you define your counterpart by who you are... Since infinity needs to be infinite everything that defines you immediately defines your counterpart.
You can't understand infinity without these concepts. It's like studying humans by ignoring those pesky emotions.
you cannot understand infinity in its entirety, never, forever. it will take infinite amount of change, something akin which we call time.
you can only think what is infinite and what is not. the result comes up as, only infinity is infinite. anything that is its subset, is finite, even if they are growing towards infinity in an infinite speed. it will take infinite amount of time to reach infinity, therefore, any subset of infinity becomes infinite in progression and existence, yet, cannot encompass infinity at any given point.
Quote:Again... unless you take perspective into account... All the different things are the same things in different TIME SPACE POSSIBILITY vectors... This is why they are different things to you!
and again, even what you call 'perspective' and the states in which there can be 'different' perspectives, are concepts within infinity. infinity had been containing all of them forever, in their infinite numbers of forms.
Quote:Exactly.... So explain why I exist... I am part of the infinite am I not? Because if I was not, the infinite would not be infinite it would be infinite minus me. Yet you claim the infinite cannot manifest. And yet it does because I am very clearly manifest.
infinity is not manifesting. infinite amounts of its subsets, being in infinite amounts of states including, but not limited to what you call as 'manifesting', make up the entirety of infinity.
so, it is not manifesting, its subsets are. also, there are subsets of it that are being in states that are totally different and irrelevant to manifesting, from our 'perspective' that we understand manifesting.
Quote:Can you not see it has to be? Those illusory finities you mention ARE the infinite.. There is nothing else that can be.... Ergo you are infinity. I am infinity, everyone here is infinity.
The Law of One... Not the law of many things that complicatedly work together... ONE...
True.. Ape mind has no chance to understand.. Unless it is guided by something else, other than ape mind... Something many people use with reliable repeatable results. Like I said, it's been explained before, you've always rejected the reality of that thing.
had ape mind has no chance to understand, we wouldnt be talking these things, or even glimpsing these things.
yet we are. that means, we can understand it, as much as we can understand it.
and we are understanding it as much as we are understanding it, as of this moment.
having to be infinite, in order to be infinite, doesnt require any kind of mind tool. capability of abstract thought, which is gained apparently in late stages of 2d and early stages of 3d, is enough.
you are confusing 'understanding infinite variations that are contained within infinity' and the concept of infinity with each other. currently you can do the latter, however, you will never be able to do the former, regardless of which octave you are in, and what kind of tool you use for abstract thought.
that is finite, can never encompass infinite. it doesnt matter if the finiteness is dubbed 'illusory' or not.
Quote:You may think that the infinite is unchangeable.. And this is correct. But your understanding of it is not.. You may think that the infinite can only exist in one way. But your perspective on it changes as you evolve through the densities.
infinity is not tied to my perspective. even when my perspective has changed infinite amount of times, infinity will still be infinite, and it would have contained the concept/act that is 'my perspective changing infinite amount of times', even before it happened. it will also be containing all the states of it is happening, and going to be happening.
Quote:It's that perspective thing... You have a certain point of view, I have another... My point of view is guided by my experiences. Peregrinus describes his by stating "I have seen The One Creator in the darkness, alone and by Itself, having The Original Thought, and beginning to create that which we know as Creation" He didn't say he deduced this with logic... Experience you makes it clear that this is not intellectual masturbation he has experienced this. They saw it. I agree with them... I've seen this same principle too. The logic you see above is adapted to convert that experience into third density concepts, it is not a substitute for the experience.
ra states, infinite intelligence created this octave in densities containing and expressing a distinct nature/feeling of creation. each step, carries a certain feeling/understanding of creation.
from the stage of 'me' to stage of communication and wisdom, all stages carry a distinct flavor and feeling. yet, working with or experiencing any of these stages' associated feeling, does not make an entity the entirety of its concept.
working with me energy in 2d doesnt make all the entities existing in the universe 'me'.
working with love does not make an entity the concept we know as love.
working with blue ray doesnt make an entity the concept we know as 'communication'.
similarly, working with and feeling the effect and meaning of what we call indigo ray, the ray of 6th density unison/unity, does not make an entity entirety of existence, infinity.
same will go for 7th density and all the others above it. experiencing and feeling the effects of particular aspects associated with a density, will not make an entity or any number of entities experiencing and feeling these associations, the entirety of that aspect, leave aside, the entirety of infinity.
Quote:Monkey mind has little chance of figuring out the eternal variables... Fortunately monkey mind is not all we have. You seem to think it is all we have... You are wrong there.
monkey mind has no difference in regard to the construction of what we call as mind, in any density. the archetype of mind, stays constantly same in structure, even if a bit modified for every locale depending on preference of its logos.
a 6th density using the same archetype in regard to mind from a logos will be using the same archetype that a 2nd density entity uses.