(09-22-2015, 12:34 PM)Aion Wrote: You speak of choice, but my choice of polarity is clear. I am service to self. What is my deepest desire? To polarize positively. Think about that. If I am serving myself, and I want to serve others, who am I serving?

(09-23-2015, 12:30 PM)Diana Wrote:

(09-22-2015, 12:34 PM)Aion Wrote: You speak of choice, but my choice of polarity is clear. I am service to self. What is my deepest desire? To polarize positively. Think about that. If I am serving myself, and I want to serve others, who am I serving?

Service to others must include service to self, otherwise there is separation. If there is separation in your own mind, I would guess you are not polarizing positively.

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

(09-23-2015, 11:40 AM)Diana Wrote: No one NEEDS to be raped. That is a choice as all things are. The individual who thinks they need rape could choose to forgive her- or himself. The soul may desire it for whatever reason (perhaps in lieu of forgiveness), but it is not something that HAS to happen. Likewise, no other HAS to do the raping. The would-be rapist may possess a desire to do this, but another choice could be made instead. 

There seems to be some idea here that "the Creator" must experience all things. And we humans in 3D are the pawns to do it. Screw that. I disagree. We experience what we choose, that's all. If there is a Creator who desires to experience itself, and sets it up so that all manner of vile things are done in order to satisfy this, then for my part I rebel. This is very close to the idea of the Christian God who is forceful, jealous and vindictive.

I do understand the idea of containing the all, and the shadow. We may have the potential for anything infinitum. But to say that someone must be the rapist is a stretch; someone may desire to be, or want to be of that service, but I do not think it is a mandatory or forced thing that somewhere in the universe someone MUST do everything. It's not possible anyway, because of the concept of infinity. It's impossible to experience all things in an infinite universe.

(09-23-2015, 02:21 PM)Sabou Wrote:

(09-23-2015, 11:40 AM)Diana Wrote: No one NEEDS to be raped. That is a choice as all things are. The individual who thinks they need rape could choose to forgive her- or himself. The soul may desire it for whatever reason (perhaps in lieu of forgiveness), but it is not something that HAS to happen. Likewise, no other HAS to do the raping. The would-be rapist may possess a desire to do this, but another choice could be made instead. 

There seems to be some idea here that "the Creator" must experience all things. And we humans in 3D are the pawns to do it. Screw that. I disagree. We experience what we choose, that's all. If there is a Creator who desires to experience itself, and sets it up so that all manner of vile things are done in order to satisfy this, then for my part I rebel. This is very close to the idea of the Christian God who is forceful, jealous and vindictive.

I do understand the idea of containing the all, and the shadow. We may have the potential for anything infinitum. But to say that someone must be the rapist is a stretch; someone may desire to be, or want to be of that service, but I do not think it is a mandatory or forced thing that somewhere in the universe someone MUST do everything. It's not possible anyway, because of the concept of infinity. It's impossible to experience all things in an infinite universe.

This thought has been weighing heavy on my conscious lately... 

 

(09-23-2015, 02:21 PM)Jade Wrote: This is not about individual polarity at all, for me. It's about the global consciousness. Does anyone here think that slaughterhouses, factory farms, etc will still be around when we are well-swung into 4D? So if one wants to help usher in a new Earth, why participate in structures that are so very separatist and 3D? I mean, obviously that question is hypothetical - we are all here to participate in the separation of 3D, but as Wanderers we are also here to help make the transition to 4D+ smoother. I try to follow the 'be the change you wish to see' mantra as much as possible - I don't meditate for a better frame of mind, and go out into the world every day and smile at and be gracious with people, and give money to the homeless, and not eat animals because it polarizes me - I do this because I want to alleviate the overall suffering of the planet, and help expedite its transition into its new being. I understand that it's still possible to participate in consumption of animals and still help eliminate suffering, but to say one is removed from the responsibility of the tortured/murdered lifeforms because they merely purchase them at the grocery store is a huge disconnect.

So obviously, I don't think that everyone who eats meat is service to self oriented by any means. In fact, I think it's a noble self-service if you truly honestly believe you need meat to be healthy and functional, and you consume it: you are doing what you truly think is best for your body. I think really what's going on is that most people are engaging in unconscious catalyst when they eat, as most people are doing with most things they do in a day. But, we truly can use any catalyst for any type of polarization/work, I do believe that. I just love our little cow and chicken buddies so much I can't help but feel like I should speak my mind on the topic when the path has been opened before me. And especially when people deny a cow's ability to read 3D awareness - when I see people make statements like that about animals (or about eating them because they are lower consciousness), I try to imagine a step up in densities, a 4th density looking at humans and thinking "Look at them, they are unable to reach 4D awareness with their simple little bodies and brains, their beingness is ours for the plunder! Oh wait - that one special one IS close to 4D - he's cool, let him be."

Quote:The consciousness below thee is ever-expanding 

in different ways from those known to thee. 
Aye, it, though in space-time below thee, 
is ever growing in ways that are different from 
those that were part of the ways of thine own. 

For know that it grows as a result of thy growth 
but not in the same way that thou didst grow. 
The growth that thou had and have in the present 
have brought into being a cause and effect. 
No consciousness follows the path of those before it, 
else all would be repetition and vain. 

Each consciousness in the cycle it exists in 
follows its own path to the ultimate goal. 
Each plays its part in the Plan of the Cosmos. 
Each plays its part in the ultimate end. 
The farther the cycle, the greater its 
knowledge and ability to blend the Law of the whole.

(09-23-2015, 02:41 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: In my view, infinity is composed of infinity. As such, each and every awareness is a strand of infinite experience of the Creator of Himself among infinite others strands. There is infinite levels at which these strands can exist to create infinite experience at every single level.

Our paths never ends and only through never ending can we be a part of infinity. 

(09-23-2015, 02:56 PM)Sabou Wrote:

(09-23-2015, 02:41 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: In my view, infinity is composed of infinity. As such, each and every awareness is a strand of infinite experience of the Creator of Himself among infinite others strands. There is infinite levels at which these strands can exist to create infinite experience at every single level.

Our paths never ends and only through never ending can we be a part of infinity. 

so, in your view, one strand can still be infinite whilst not containing another strands direct experience? 

(09-22-2015, 10:14 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:

(09-22-2015, 08:23 PM)Monica Wrote: Obviously, people eat meat everyday, oblivious to the suffering that occurred in getting them their meat.

But, once the person becomes aware of how much the animals suffer, then the only way to continue supporting that is to harden their heart. In a court of law this is called 'callous disregard' - to continue to do something, while knowing that it causes harm to others.

If you think I'm wrong, then please explain how one could knowingly and directly support the torture and killing of a human child, just for pleasure, with an open heart. The principle is the same.

...

Being part of the societies we exist within is pretty much directly supporting sufferings of every human life that has been shattered by it. That includes many children's death.

(09-22-2015, 10:14 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I do this by seeking to understand, accept and love this reality I exist within. Even in it's twisted ways I wouldn't have created myself.

(09-23-2015, 11:40 AM)Diana Wrote: No one NEEDS to be raped. That is a choice as all things are. The individual who thinks they need rape could choose to forgive her- or himself. The soul may desire it for whatever reason (perhaps in lieu of forgiveness), but it is not something that HAS to happen. Likewise, no other HAS to do the raping. The would-be rapist may possess a desire to do this, but another choice could be made instead. 

There seems to be some idea here that "the Creator" must experience all things. And we humans in 3D are the pawns to do it. Screw that. I disagree. We experience what we choose, that's all. If there is a Creator who desires to experience itself, and sets it up so that all manner of vile things are done in order to satisfy this, then for my part I rebel. This is very close to the idea of the Christian God who is forceful, jealous and vindictive.

I do understand the idea of containing the all, and the shadow. We may have the potential for anything infinitum. But to say that someone must be the rapist is a stretch; someone may desire to be, or want to be of that service, but I do not think it is a mandatory or forced thing that somewhere in the universe someone MUST do everything. It's not possible anyway, because of the concept of infinity. It's impossible to experience all things in an infinite universe.

(09-23-2015, 01:13 PM)Matt1 Wrote: To much effort is put on polarities of consciousness, i doubt that Ra would have intended for such focus on it. If we have an understanding that we are unity, it doesn't matter if one is being service to self or others, because the indvidual will interpret the experience in a way that they desire.

(09-23-2015, 01:49 PM)Aion Wrote: Service to self must eventually also include service to others, because one cannot serve others without serving the self.

(09-23-2015, 02:14 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

I do believe this to be the most efficient mean of polarization.

Trying to be something other than what you are or thinking you should be different then what you are is counter-productive and won't be much polarizing in any way. Working with what is to experience, analyze and understand it, then provides the ability to transmute it into something different or in a way.. see the change happen in self.

Having an open heart does not mean everyone feels the exact same way as everyone else. if it was so none could grow in love. An open heart does incarnate unconditional love but it is a love which is unconditional toward it's conditions. 

Quote:18.5 Questioner: Thank you. I have a question here from Jim that I will read verbatim: “Much of the mystic tradition of seeking on Earth holds that belief that the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world ignored for an entity to reach ‘nirvana,’ as it’s called, or enlightenment. What is the proper role of the individual self and its worldly activities in aiding an entity to grow more into the Law of One?”
Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.

The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum. Overcoming thus creates the further environment for holding onto that which apparently has been overcome.

All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate description shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.

It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.

(09-23-2015, 06:11 PM)Monica Wrote:

(09-22-2015, 10:14 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:

(09-22-2015, 08:23 PM)Monica Wrote: Obviously, people eat meat everyday, oblivious to the suffering that occurred in getting them their meat.

But, once the person becomes aware of how much the animals suffer, then the only way to continue supporting that is to harden their heart. In a court of law this is called 'callous disregard' - to continue to do something, while knowing that it causes harm to others.

If you think I'm wrong, then please explain how one could knowingly and directly support the torture and killing of a human child, just for pleasure, with an open heart. The principle is the same.

...

Being part of the societies we exist within is pretty much directly supporting sufferings of every human life that has been shattered by it. That includes many children's death.

That's INdirect. I specifically asked for explanation of directly supporting the torture and killing of a human child just for pleasure, with an open heart.

(09-22-2015, 10:14 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I do this by seeking to understand, accept and love this reality I exist within. Even in it's twisted ways I wouldn't have created myself.

We all contributed to this reality. The question now is: Do we want to continue to create it? Knowingly, directly, unnecessarily supporting an industry that causes suffering, IS creating that reality!

...

(09-23-2015, 02:21 PM)Jade Wrote: This is not about individual polarity at all, for me. It's about the global consciousness. Does anyone here think that slaughterhouses, factory farms, etc will still be around when we are well-swung into 4D? So if one wants to help usher in a new Earth, why participate in structures that are so very separatist and 3D? I mean, obviously that question is hypothetical - we are all here to participate in the separation of 3D, but as Wanderers we are also here to help make the transition to 4D+ smoother. I try to follow the 'be the change you wish to see' mantra as much as possible - I don't meditate for a better frame of mind, and go out into the world every day and smile at and be gracious with people, and give money to the homeless, and not eat animals because it polarizes me - I do this because I want to alleviate the overall suffering of the planet, and help expedite its transition into its new being. I understand that it's still possible to participate in consumption of animals and still help eliminate suffering, but to say one is removed from the responsibility of the tortured/murdered lifeforms because they merely purchase them at the grocery store is a huge disconnect.

So obviously, I don't think that everyone who eats meat is service to self oriented by any means. In fact, I think it's a noble self-service if you truly honestly believe you need meat to be healthy and functional, and you consume it: you are doing what you truly think is best for your body. I think really what's going on is that most people are engaging in unconscious catalyst when they eat, as most people are doing with most things they do in a day. But, we truly can use any catalyst for any type of polarization/work, I do believe that. I just love our little cow and chicken buddies so much I can't help but feel like I should speak my mind on the topic when the path has been opened before me. And especially when people deny a cow's ability to read 3D awareness - when I see people make statements like that about animals (or about eating them because they are lower consciousness), I try to imagine a step up in densities, a 4th density looking at humans and thinking "Look at them, they are unable to reach 4D awareness with their simple little bodies and brains, their beingness is ours for the plunder! Oh wait - that one special one IS close to 4D - he's cool, let him be."

(09-23-2015, 06:43 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: You keep calling it direct but I have already stated I do not think it is in another thread.

(09-23-2015, 06:43 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I do not think you are the judge of what is necessary or unecessary

(09-23-2015, 06:43 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: nor do we agree on what love is nor what the purpose and meaning of suffering is. 

(09-23-2015, 06:43 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I already said I acknowledge and accept the current system, as such I have no strong desires to avoid being in contact with it nor desires to change it otherwise.

(09-23-2015, 02:54 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Well that still depends on how you view the cause and effect of your acts. You could in a way see every act of kindness as creating in turn an equivalent act of hatred to be performed by an other-self.

(09-23-2015, 07:03 PM)Monica Wrote:

(09-23-2015, 02:54 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Well that still depends on how you view the cause and effect of your acts. You could in a way see every act of kindness as creating in turn an equivalent act of hatred to be performed by an other-self.

The idea that every act of kindness must be 'balanced' by an act of hatred has No basis in the Law of One Material. It perhaps originated in Taoism, and even then, is a corruption/misinterpretation.

Ra has given percentages required for graduation. Notice that they aren't 50/50.

Nowhere in the Material has Ra ever indicated that STS and STO entities are exactly equal, or that love/light is perfectly balanced with darkness.

This idea is based in duality, and stuck in the number 2, numerologically. The idea of 'balance' being dual, fails to take into consideration the higher numbers, let alone other aspects beyond duality.

Hence, I think it's inaccurate to assume that every act of kindness is canceled out by an act of hatred. It doesn't work that way. On the contrary, the STS path is eventually merged back into Oneness, by mid-6D latest.

...

(09-23-2015, 07:17 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: That is not what I meant, I meant that infinity is explored and just like there were many born and molded in light, there will he many born and molded into darkness.

It is not out of balance, just that "newer" emerging consciousness will walk paths that were not taken by their predecessors and existing within simple dull light and love with not much color to it has been overdone and new experiences are created. It never ends and is happening far beyond this reality into which we were born. Within infinity, there is an opposite to your every choices, there is an antithesis to your being, there is everything you can understand but even much more of what you cannot understand.

This duality will be explored on the two sides of it. Unlike many here (from what I have seen), I do believe this Creation's fate is to end in darkness and that is so whether we are still here to witness it or not.

(09-23-2015, 06:57 PM)Monica Wrote:

(09-23-2015, 06:43 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: You keep calling it direct but I have already stated I do not think it is in another thread.

Look, there is a difference between the words direct and indirect. I'm Not making this up! It's simple definitions of words.

If a woman dumps her boyfriend and he flies into a rage and goes postal, she indirectly affected his emotional state, but she did Not directly cause him to go shoot people! No court of law would ever find her guilty of murder because she didn't directly kill anyone. Her involvement was only indirect, and even then, the final choice was up to the boyfriend. The boyfriend will be found guilty of murder in a court of law, Not his ex-girlfriend just for dumping him! That is an example of indirect.

Here is an example of direct:

A man pays an assassin to kill his ex-wife. If caught, both the assassin (the man who actually pulled the trigger) AND the man who paid him will be found guilty. BOTH of them. Why? Because they both directly caused the murder of the wife.

In industry, it's a simple matter of supply and demand. Each time we buy meat/dairy from the grocery store, we are directly supporting an industry that directly causes the rape, torture and killing of sentient beings. Whether we physically slit the cow's throat or not makes No difference; we are supporting the cow's rape/torture/slaughter just the same. It is direct, because we are directly supporting the industry. The industry continues to expand and rape/torture/slaughter more animals in direct response to demand; ie. how many people are buying the product. The only way to Not directly participate is to quit buying the product!

(09-23-2015, 06:43 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I do not think you are the judge of what is necessary or unecessary

I'm not. Medical researchers already decided that, Not me.

(09-23-2015, 06:43 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: nor do we agree on what love is nor what the purpose and meaning of suffering is. 

Actually, we do agree on what the purpose and meaning of suffering is. I have never disagreed with you on that point. (Not sure about the love part though.)

The point I disagreed on was whether we should knowingly and directly contribute to said suffering. That is where we disagree. I contend that knowingly causing suffering is the task of the STS-oriented entity. Am I understanding you correctly that you think it's ok for STO-oriented entities to knowingly and directly cause suffering to sentient other-selves just to satisfy their own desires?

(09-23-2015, 06:43 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I already said I acknowledge and accept the current system, as such I have no strong desires to avoid being in contact with it nor desires to change it otherwise.

If you eat meat and/or dairy, then you are already in contact with it and supporting its continued existence.

...

(09-23-2015, 07:30 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I do not have strong desires for meat nor do I think it is necessary for my body.

(09-23-2015, 07:30 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I consider my means indirect whether they give small contributions to the industry or not, if this earth was different I would not make any effort to eat meat as I have no strong desire toward it. I see no value in myself being vegan as of now and do not think it'd create anything positive. I do not think it'd save the life of any animals either although with a small possibly. In my ways I have no feeling of infringing upon free will, so I'd hardly consider my ways as polarizing negatively.

(09-23-2015, 07:30 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Anything can be done by a STO-oriented entity as long as it perceives it in love.

(09-23-2015, 07:30 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Polarity exists in intent and not action

(09-23-2015, 07:30 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: and evolution of awareness brings us to reunite both polarities into one. Ra calls it STO, but to move beyond it requires a STO that integrates into itself negative wisdom and that is able to see the beauty in it.

(09-23-2015, 07:30 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I do not believe the earth to be STS when an earthquake arrives or anything similar, I believe the earth provides what is needed whatever the color it comes in. So to answer your question, I do believe destruction can be offered in love, and I do believe it is one lesson that is to be learned by all.

(09-23-2015, 07:47 PM)Monica Wrote:

(09-23-2015, 07:30 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I do not have strong desires for meat nor do I think it is necessary for my body.

Then I cannot comprehend why you'd want to do something that came from suffering and death, for No good reason.

(09-23-2015, 07:47 PM)Monica Wrote:

(09-23-2015, 07:30 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I consider my means indirect whether they give small contributions to the industry or not, if this earth was different I would not make any effort to eat meat as I have no strong desire toward it. I see no value in myself being vegan as of now and do not think it'd create anything positive. I do not think it'd save the life of any animals either although with a small possibly. In my ways I have no feeling of infringing upon free will, so I'd hardly consider my ways as polarizing negatively.

You won't make a difference. Not today. Not tomorrow. Probably Not next week either.

BUT, collectively, the more of us who go vegan DO make a difference. We DO have an impact on the industry! This is proven. Meat consumption has dropped dramatically. One national news article said that meat consumption has plummeted and this is directly due to raised awareness by vegans in addition to the medical research showing the obvious health benefits of a plant-based diet.

So, respectfully, you are simply mistaken that your choice means nothing and doesn't have any impact. Why do you belittle your contribution? Each person has value. YOU have value!

The power is in the collective. We each contribute to the consensual reality.

In addition to direct supply and demand, which is standard in any industry and cannot be denied, you also have value in the choices you make, in terms of consciousness feeding into the collective consciousness. We live in a holographic universe, and each person - including YOU - does have an impact on the reality we are creating. Not just on a physical level, but on an energetic level.

(09-23-2015, 07:47 PM)Monica Wrote:

(09-23-2015, 07:30 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Anything can be done by a STO-oriented entity as long as it perceives it in love.

Anything? So a pedophile can 'love' his victim and still polarize STO? Well that's great news for pedophiles. They often say that they 'love' little children.

(09-23-2015, 07:47 PM)Monica Wrote:

(09-23-2015, 07:30 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Polarity exists in intent and not action

Why do you leave out action? Of course intent is important. But that doesn't mean that action - choice - has No importance. Both are important.

(09-23-2015, 07:47 PM)Monica Wrote:

(09-23-2015, 07:30 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: and evolution of awareness brings us to reunite both polarities into one. Ra calls it STO, but to move beyond it requires a STO that integrates into itself negative wisdom and that is able to see the beauty in it.

The concept of 'beyond polarity' is often confused with the sinkhole of indifference. One must first get past the sinkhole of indifference and choose a polarity before one can go beyond polarity.

(09-23-2015, 07:47 PM)Monica Wrote:

(09-23-2015, 07:30 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I do not believe the earth to be STS when an earthquake arrives or anything similar, I believe the earth provides what is needed whatever the color it comes in. So to answer your question, I do believe destruction can be offered in love, and I do believe it is one lesson that is to be learned by all.

So do you think those billions of animals are being raped/tortured/destroyed in love?

...

(09-24-2015, 12:02 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:

(09-23-2015, 07:47 PM)Monica Wrote:

(09-23-2015, 07:30 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Anything can be done by a STO-oriented entity as long as it perceives it in love.

Anything? So a pedophile can 'love' his victim and still polarize STO? Well that's great news for pedophiles. They often say that they 'love' little children.

I do not resonate with pedophily but can comprehend that there is most likely much surrow and struggle for the pedophiles themselves in regards to their programming and the mirror they are given by society.

(09-24-2015, 12:02 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Because I do accept it's provenance without feeling repulsion as you do.

(09-24-2015, 09:57 PM)Monica Wrote:

(09-24-2015, 12:02 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Because I do accept it's provenance without feeling repulsion as you do.

Really? Are you saying that you don't feel repulsed by eating meat, OR are you saying that you don't feel repulsed by this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUQnMvigcdQ

Are you saying that you can watch this, and Not feel repulsed?

How about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM-JsyyfSmE

Still no repulsion?

Are you able to watch these in their entirety without feeling any repulsion? Or do you mean that you refuse to watch these videos, and don't feel any repulsion? (Ie. there is a difference between watching the videos and Not feeling repulsed, vs. NOT watching the videos and Not feeling repulsed. So I am trying to understand what you mean, specifically.)

...

(09-25-2015, 10:04 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:

(09-24-2015, 09:57 PM)Monica Wrote:

(09-24-2015, 12:02 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Because I do accept it's provenance without feeling repulsion as you do.

Really? Are you saying that you don't feel repulsed by eating meat, OR are you saying that you don't feel repulsed by this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUQnMvigcdQ

Are you saying that you can watch this, and Not feel repulsed?

How about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM-JsyyfSmE

Still no repulsion?

Are you able to watch these in their entirety without feeling any repulsion? Or do you mean that you refuse to watch these videos, and don't feel any repulsion? (Ie. there is a difference between watching the videos and Not feeling repulsed, vs. NOT watching the videos and Not feeling repulsed. So I am trying to understand what you mean, specifically.)

...

Well I do not find them merry but I still do not feel repulsion while watching. I picture it as a harsh catalyst even for the workers when they'll succeed in opening their heart ray. But I do still think these places resonate death and suffering and yet souls apparently resonate with incarnating there. Just as much as there is death, there also is life in this video as that without any of these meat farms none of them would even exist.

I personally feel repulsed by even holding an animal that I feel doesn't want to be held, so I guess it is very relative to the context and my implication with it. Tried fishing and hated it, even if I'd release the fish I found no pleasure in holding them against their will nor hurting them with the hooks. I feel no need for myself to inflict pain on another sentient being but can understand that others do have this need, that they unknowingly offer as a service.

(09-25-2015, 12:32 PM)Diana Wrote:

(09-25-2015, 10:04 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Well I do not find them merry but I still do not feel repulsion while watching. I picture it as a harsh catalyst even for the workers when they'll succeed in opening their heart ray. But I do still think these places resonate death and suffering and yet souls apparently resonate with incarnating there. Just as much as there is death, there also is life in this video as that without any of these meat farms none of them would even exist.

I personally feel repulsed by even holding an animal that I feel doesn't want to be held, so I guess it is very relative to the context and my implication with it. Tried fishing and hated it, even if I'd release the fish I found no pleasure in holding them against their will nor hurting them with the hooks. I feel no need for myself to inflict pain on another sentient being but can understand that others do have this need, that they unknowingly offer as a service.

Your reasoning makes sense to my intellect if I can shut off any connection to my heart. I'm not accusing you of having a closed heart, but that is the only way I can reconcile your mindset. Of course, I am not a great advanced being so my perception is limited. 

(09-25-2015, 12:32 PM)Diana Wrote: I understand how the intellect can weave justifications, and the ego is the mastermind of that endeavor. I don't mean the standard idea of ego, I mean the vital portion of the 3D self that protects the self—an important job up until a point. 

(09-25-2015, 12:32 PM)Diana Wrote: To say the meat animals (and slaughterhouse employees, etc.) choose it is completely beside the point. The point is, why does anyone here choose to be part of it? There may be young girls who choose on a soul level for whatever reason to be abducted and sold into slavery for sex, but is there anyone here who would choose to benefit from that suffering consciously? Would anyone here "buy" one of those girls and justify it as being of service to the girls who "need" it? 

It's convoluted to me.