(12-02-2016, 05:39 AM)April Wu Wrote: Our friend Monica said in previous post "It's just that the vegan always wins on all counts, whether it's in regards to health, ethics, or the environment." It's not a competition, nobody will be a winner or a loser. There's nothing but love here. The plants, animals, humans and different opinions are made of love. No choice is superior to another. Because all is one.

(12-06-2016, 02:31 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: At the end of the day, the goal is to seek good health, is it not?  

(12-02-2016, 04:22 PM)Diana Wrote:

(12-02-2016, 05:39 AM)April Wu Wrote: Our friend Monica said in previous post "It's just that the vegan always wins on all counts, whether it's in regards to health, ethics, or the environment." It's not a competition, nobody will be a winner or a loser. There's nothing but love here. The plants, animals, humans and different opinions are made of love. No choice is superior to another. Because all is one.

I think I understand what you mean in the above.

To clarify however, I'm sure Monica did not mean to be in competition. Her concern was compassion for other life forms (meat and meat byproduct animals) and raising awareness, not in being right or winning.

I have to disagree that no one will be a loser. The animals in factory farms not only lose their lives at slaughter, but get no chance to even live their lives other than in torturous conditions. I don't see that as love. I understand that you may mean from a larger perspective, but this reality has a part to play as well.

(12-07-2016, 04:41 AM)April Wu Wrote: yeah, my post is not comprehensive, last year i saw a movie called Unity, a documentary actually. Many animals like chicken and cows are in serious torturous conditions. These facts remind us to give more compassion and love to the animals and provide us an opportunity to serve. My post is more about the continious argument, but I see that Monica's concern is out of compassion. The animals' sacrifice teaches us love, maybe we can also spread this love in this thread, send love but not the feeling of separateness to others...

(12-07-2016, 04:41 AM)April Wu Wrote: The animals' sacrifice teaches us love, maybe we can also spread this love in this thread, send love but not the feeling of separateness to others...

(04-25-2016, 05:44 AM)Creighton Wrote: Hi Aaron.. I have no judgments with whatever anyone chooses to believe and do as their choice. And I believe my body will produce vit B12 whenever necessary or any other nutrients my body needs. I take no supplements, and have been a vegetarian, and vegan for years. And if I choose to change back to flesh eating I feel free to do so, not out of fear of lacking something nutritionally, but out of my choice for the enjoyment of eating it. I'm also a clinical hypnotherapist, and past-life regressionist, and tests made with thousands of people under hypnosis has proven the body will make nutrients that it needs, or believes is necessary to exist, under hypnosis. There are many documented cases of this available.  And I believe for myself, all eating is for the pleasure, & the camaraderie, of being with friends and the group participation. And privately, & personally.. for my own pleasure. I'm also looking into Breatharianism as an alternative way of being. Which is adapting the body to living on the Prana energy that is everywhere. There are currently over 20,000 practicing breatharian's in the world. I have been following Ray Maor (from Israel) and Akahi for 6 yrs. http://akahmi.com/   &     https://youtu.be/QhBpdGxmMCU

There are many available choices.. and we are each the chooser of what we believe will be our experience.  And as an Adept wanderer, I get to choose whatever is in alignment with my knowing.  From a 6th dimensional reality, we are unlimited... and Breatharianism can be a way to end hunger, and dis-eases, and many other limitations. Its something to look at, as we expand in consciousness...

                                                                                                 Namaste,  Creighton

(02-10-2021, 06:24 PM)Bosphorus1982 Wrote: Meat protein is necessary

(02-11-2021, 03:05 PM)confusedseeker Wrote:

(02-10-2021, 06:24 PM)Bosphorus1982 Wrote: Meat protein is necessary

I agree. I don't want to be "that guy" but there is a huge agenda behind Veganism, without a lot of science and data that supports it.  I think a better movement would be for sustainable, ethical farming.  It's simply not viable to ignore what our digestive systems are set up for, especially on a large scale.

Quote:Austin: We have another one from Lanny that is in two parts—I will ask the first part first. “Q’uo, I would like to ask a question about eating meat. What are the spiritual principles and possibilities of polarization as one attempts to eliminate the use of animal products from their diet? When the reality of the situation is looked at, we have one set of beings expressing its dominance over another set of beings and from what I can tell are infringing on the free will of these beings as they live a life in which they are caged and grown just to be killed for meat. When we have the opportunity/option to be a steward of this planet and treat every being with respect and dignity, can you help enlighten me on this? Do second-density beings incarnate in the understanding that they will live this kind of life and therefore, we are not infringing on their free will? Or does each person make their choice, if they are even aware, as to whether they will take part in this?

Quote:Q’uo: I am Q’uo and am aware of the query, my brother. This is a query which moves to the level of understanding that all is One. The animals, as you call them, of the second-density variety, which are utilized by many on the surface of your third-density planet for food, are beings that have consciousness, that have a soul, that have the ability to give and to receive love. These entities, then, can be utilized by those of the third density in any way that third- density entities choose. This choosing is done in a conscious manner when the second-density entity that is to be consumed as a food, is asked before its slaughter, shall we say, if this is acceptable to such entity.

This is a situation in which many of the native tribes, shall we say, of your earthly sphere have long engaged in the utilizing of the second-density animals for their food. However, we find that it is seldom utilized in your third-density at this time, and it is more likely to be taken for granted that such second-density entities have been grown for this purpose, and would consider it a part of their life experience to give their lives and their bodies for food. However, this cannot be known for certain until there has been a communication established between the third-density entity and the second- density entity that is seen as a potential source of food.

Therefore, we find that for most entities within the third density who consume the meat products without such an establishment of communication beforehand, are in some way infringing upon the free will of the second-density entities. However, we would remind each third-density being that it is quite frequently accomplished, shall we say, that the infringement upon the free will of others is put forth or done in many and various ways on a daily basis, so that there is the need for each third-density entity to balance the catalyst of such infringement upon the free will of other entities, be they second or third-density entities.

Thus, it is not just in the consumption of the foodstuffs of second density that such infringement takes place. We would remind each third-density entity that the second-density foodstuffs in the form of plants also have a type of consciousness that is more likely to be able to blend in a harmonious fashion with the desire of third-density entities to see them as foodstuffs. This, however, is also enhanced when the third-density entity is able to see all food, be it animal or vegetable, as that which is conscious, that which contains the One Infinite Creator, and that which with a communication needs to be established in some manner, whether it is the saying of a blessing of the food or the asking of the food if it is acceptable to be utilized as food before it is so utilized.

We realize that most third-density entities are unable or unwilling or unaware of such a necessity, and move through their daily round of activities with a blindness to this possibility and necessity, as there is blindness to many ways of realizing the spiritual nature of the journey each seeker is upon. This journey of seeking is one which encompasses the entire reality of third-density so that all may be seen eventually as the One Infinite Creator and may be communicated with upon that level, so that for whatever reason, the portion of the One Creator that you are communicating with is to be used, that there will be a means by which the acceptance of this use by that portion of the Creator is achieved.

(05-05-2020, 12:44 PM)Diana Wrote: In addition to what Louisabell said above about plants and beans (thank you Louisabell), I have researched the database here and found some previous posts that speak to this thread and what has been posted on the issue at hand. I did this because we have gone over this subject many, many times—which indicates that there is much catalyst here, but also much curiosity and desire to evolve.

This from Jade:

Quote:You can eat plants without killing them, and in fact, it helps them. Fruits and vegetables contain seeds that, if processed naturally, end up back in the environment and that is how they propagate. Of course, modern plumbing is the bane then of fruits and vegetables, but truly, fruits and vegetables have evolved to be eaten by animals. I think we really need to get over the idea that just eating plants causes harm.

This from me:

Quote:The way I think of it is that I make choices that do the least harm. Plants have evolved to need animals to eat parts of them to propagate, and they don't die just because the fruits, seeds, flowers (like broccoli) and leaves are harvested. Plants don't have the same systems as we and animals do, especially a nervous system. Though plants have a survival instinct like all other life here, that survival is not the same as animal life. There are many factors that suggest plants are more geared to being eaten as sustenance, whereas we absolutely know animals do not want to be slaughtered (nevermind the torture they may endure in factory farms especially). You could mow down a field of weeds, wildflowers, wild plants, grasses, and the root systems would survive and continue to produce. Compare this to cutting off a leg of a cow. There are so many pointers that lead one to see plants as the natural (and kinder) food of this existence—since food there must be. Of course commercial farming is not ideal and does not usually align with any sort of compassion.

This from me:

Quote:

Quote:Valtor Wrote:  Can I serve my other-selves by not eating? Not taking inside of me their energy? Will this end my incarnation? Maybe ending my incarnation in this way is the ultimate service-to-others act. It could be seen as very compassionate to other-selves, but also not compassionate to self. If compassion to others is used to measure polarity, then this sacrifice would provide extreme positive polarity?

The self is an other-self. This is part of the equation in my opinion. Respect for other-selves must include self. It is not balanced, in my opinion, to sacrifice.

In 3D, someone who is practicing compassion for all other-selves (including self) in regards to eating, might look around and consider what to eat. There is no reason to kill the self's vehicle. One could eat fruit, for instance.

Quote:Valtor Wrote:  Then, can I actually serve my other-selves by eating? Is it a communion in between self and other-self. The lower density other-selves (plants) sacrificing their incarnation to sustain ours. That is an act of love right ? Did these plants chose this before their incarnation? etc...

That was the kind of discussion of was trying to start at the beginning.

Plants offer parts of themselves to animals for food in order to propagate. This suggests a symbiotic, mutually beneficial relationship, rather than a sacrifice or offering of love on the part of the plants. I don't mean to say love is not involved. Just that it seems natural and beneficial for plant life to be food.

This from BrownEye:

Quote:

Quote:3DMonkey Wrote:  Lol. I disagree completely. If you find yourself dropped in a jungle, meat is the ONLY way you will survive, and where there is a will there is a way.

I would love to see that. What I think you missed is the widely held belief that Man was created with fire in one hand and a spear in the other. Unless you want to believe that Man lived like jackals in the beginning, only eating flesh that was slow enough and sick enough to happen upon, I will stand by natural evolution and say it was impossible in the beginning. Even if it was not, then you have to accept that you are now at the bottom of the rung species wise, only having strength through reliance on technology and numbers, not brains or brawn.

I watched a nice show about a guy roughing it in the wild. He definitely had the will, but did not have the capability of the way. He was surrounded by flora and fauna, but believed he could only exist on animal matter. So even though he had a knife and emergency rations, he was pretty much starving from spending too much time hunting for porcupines which were the only thing slow enough for him to get close to. Instead of just eating what he had around him he wussed out and called for pickup in half the time that he advertised.

As I said earlier, it is a sick mind that ignores fruit hanging on a tree while salivating looking at an animal. If you see a cow eating flesh do you consider it normal? Or is it that it has not gone on long enough yet for society to believe it is completely normal? It is not natural or healthy, whether it applies to mind, body, or spirit. It is simply a result of programming by culture and society. The concept of programming the ego has been established since before the bible and Jesus brought it up himself in the most obvious text in the bible “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

I am not trying to convince you not to eat meat, You can eat your whole family and it would not bother me. What bothers me is when the wool is pulled over your eyes yet feeling the need to propagate that falsehood. Not you specifically of course, but any and all.

(02-11-2021, 03:17 PM)Diana Wrote:

(02-11-2021, 03:05 PM)confusedseeker Wrote:

(02-10-2021, 06:24 PM)Bosphorus1982 Wrote: Meat protein is necessary

I agree. I don't want to be "that guy" but there is a huge agenda behind Veganism, without a lot of science and data that supports it.  I think a better movement would be for sustainable, ethical farming.  It's simply not viable to ignore what our digestive systems are set up for, especially on a large scale.

I agree that sustainable, ethical farming would be a first step, but a first step only.

What is the "huge agenda" behind veganism?

Our digestive system is set up for plants, not animal flesh (length of intestines for one thing).

I am the data you need. I haven't eaten meat since 1993. I started out vegetarian but became vegan. I am healthier than most people 20 years younger than me (I don't know many people who don't get colds and flus periodically). I look way younger than my age and I don't get sick.

The evidence and the science are out there, and most likely in this thread and others on the subject. I just don't feel like once again finding the sources and reposting it.

There is so much evidence that meat is bad for you I am surprised you can't find it. No offense intended. I am aware how insidious this information is to stay with the status quo and continue to consume animals products.

(02-11-2021, 03:52 PM)Bosphorus1982 Wrote: According to another group (cassiopaea), Carla has deceased due to the lack of animal proteins after dieting for so many years. Just a reminder

(02-11-2021, 05:12 PM)Diana Wrote:

(02-11-2021, 03:52 PM)Bosphorus1982 Wrote: According to another group (cassiopaea), Carla has deceased due to the lack of animal proteins after dieting for so many years. Just a reminder

According to Ra in the material, they tried to get Carla to limit her meat consumption. I don't recall anything in the material about her "dieting." As far as I know, she liked burgers and steaks and promoted raw steaks for grounding (in her Channeling Handbook). 

Your source is not Ra. I would question their motives in saying such things.

(02-13-2021, 06:28 AM)Margan Wrote: ...We should never judge someone for their eating habits.

(02-13-2021, 09:31 AM)Patrick Wrote:

(02-13-2021, 06:28 AM)Margan Wrote: ...We should never judge someone for their eating habits.

Very good advice!  In fact, we could just say it like this: "We should never judge".

(02-11-2021, 05:12 PM)Diana Wrote:

(02-11-2021, 03:52 PM)Bosphorus1982 Wrote: According to another group (cassiopaea), Carla has deceased due to the lack of animal proteins after dieting for so many years. Just a reminder

According to Ra in the material, they tried to get Carla to limit her meat consumption. I don't recall anything in the material about her "dieting." As far as I know, she liked burgers and steaks and promoted raw steaks for grounding (in her Channeling Handbook). 

Your source is not Ra. I would question their motives in saying such things.

(02-22-2021, 05:27 PM)confusedseeker Wrote: Veganism is absolutely terrible for your health, even if you take out the agenda behind it.

(02-22-2021, 05:27 PM)confusedseeker Wrote: Veganism is absolutely terrible for your health, even if you take out the agenda behind it.