(12-21-2015, 03:27 PM)Diana Wrote:

(12-21-2015, 02:51 PM)Aion Wrote: This cracks me up. So easy to ignite this argument. The same things said ad infinitum.

Yes that's true. I was trying to be considerate in repeating myself for this conversation. 

But let's not poke fun if that's possible. I really doubt that it's anyone's intention to argue rather than to discuss or debate. This subject matter does however incite reactive emotions. Laughing at it is probably a good way to diffuse situations, but laughing at others might not be.

(12-21-2015, 04:46 PM)Aion Wrote: Why? I guess people regard themselves with a certain seriousness that I've never really understood. So many serious attitudes in the world. I understand that humour can be hurtful, but I don't understand why people take themselves so seriously.

It's likely that I just don't know how to identify with the sensitivity. Course, on that note, gentility is usually taken to be compassionate. I just find it strange how intensely people invest in their ideologies and beliefs, just in a general sense, this discussion is just a good example.

It always blows my mind a bit when people make absolute statements about the world based on philosophy. Of course, where philosophy ends and 'fact' begins is different for every person.

(12-21-2015, 04:54 PM)Diana Wrote:

(12-21-2015, 04:46 PM)Aion Wrote: Why? I guess people regard themselves with a certain seriousness that I've never really understood. So many serious attitudes in the world. I understand that humour can be hurtful, but I don't understand why people take themselves so seriously.

It's likely that I just don't know how to identify with the sensitivity. Course, on that note, gentility is usually taken to be compassionate. I just find it strange how intensely people invest in their ideologies and beliefs, just in a general sense, this discussion is just a good example.

It always blows my mind a bit when people make absolute statements about the world based on philosophy. Of course, where philosophy ends and 'fact' begins is different for every person.

You are quite right that I can be a serious person, but I do not take myself too seriously. I was trying to say something about members in general. You are free to laugh at me all you want, and I will be glad to join in. Ultimately, I think laughing at one's self is a great skill.

However, I can take a subject seriously. It would be difficult for me to find any humor in suffering. So I can be quite serious when it comes to this particular subject matter. However, laughing at human folly is another story.

(12-21-2015, 05:09 PM)Aion Wrote: It seems I find the most amusement in things that others find really frustrating. Whereas I will often get frustrated for things that are simple to others.

For awhile I thought maybe I was 'broken' in some way and not able to feel compassion. I'm not a very good comforter and sympathy seems pretty foreign to me. I beat myself up over it a lot but eventually I realized that I just view things in such a different way that when others feel like they are being most challenged, I see the most beautiful opportunities for growth. Thing is is that most people don't care to hear that

So, I often just remain stony and silent during serious, intense conversations and situations to hide the fact that I'm actually bubbling up inside. Maybe I'm addicted to challenges as there have been many times in life I have intentionally made things more difficult for myself just to prove to myself I can master the challenge.

(12-18-2015, 03:02 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: If you take reality for what it is I'd say even with the best intents people have to focus their energy somewhere. Some focus on animals, some focus on themselves and some focus on others. There is so many area of life that needs love. What pains me is the lack of compassion every side has for each other. One have yet to realize that each has his karmic wheel spining. Some have too much to deal with themselves to deal with animals. And some have too much to deal with animals to deal with themselves. I don't think people who eat meat are not conscious of the suffering they cause. They just like to put back the lack of compassion of vegan people back in their face just like vegan people like to do with meat eaters. If both sides focus on healing themselves instead of healing others who do not seek it themselves there would be much more understanding. The vegan/meat eaters thread always seem like the most delusional STO work possible. Both sides are just fighting themselves.

(12-18-2015, 04:31 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: Fighting it is useless, you can only succeed at fighting yourself.

(12-18-2015, 04:31 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: The choice of doing or not is personal and isn't relevant to any level of spirituality.

(12-18-2015, 04:31 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: It will be good for some to become vegan to evolve spiritually while some aren't bounded with such catalyst. Maybe one day everybody will become vegan but I feel compassion has a better way of spreading understanding about it than making people who eat meat feel bad about it. So far vegan/meat eaters thread have only been mirrors of lack of compassion. It is better to learn from it's result than suffering from it.

(12-19-2015, 05:23 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: That's exactly what I was implying. If one would kill every animal he eats and succeed at believe he is doing so out of love then he would be way more healthy than any vegan who doesn't enjoy it's experience.

(12-22-2015, 02:32 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: Not by raising awareness of animal suffering no. You read what you want to read.

(12-19-2015, 09:18 PM)Aion Wrote: You can choose to eat meat based on love of self too

(12-20-2015, 11:10 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I can agree that veganism can be likened to a religion/philosophical identity if we also agree that carnism can be likened to a religion/philosophical identity. However, what you express is much more likely to happen - guilt and self-loathing that makes one sick - with those who eat meat and feel guilty about it. Really, most vegans are pretty guilt-free about what they eat which is why so many people project self-righteousness upon them. I think the number of people who are sick because of inherent guilt due to the diet they cling to far outweigh those who would ever feel guilty for changing their diet. (I say that with loose definition to 'changing ones diet' meaning in the way that Ra says it's the most simple analogue to changing the way one treats the self)

So if we're talking about possible dangers due to one's thought patterns in relation to their choice of their diet, there is one path that is far more dangerous - maintaining the status quo. Being flexible to change is always the more ideal end-state.

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In response to the Keanu quote, it has nothing to do with veganism vs. omnivorism. The parable offers two characters, one who is always waiting for the shoe to drop and the other who seems to not have a care in the world. Of course the person who constantly worries about their health will display more indicators of poor health than the person who has no worries about their health. The idea that one should be a hedonist without any regard to others ("bacon upon bacon") is indeed quite a selfish attitude to promote, however. I eat what I want, in copious amounts. I eat lots of "unhealthy" junk food. I just draw a line for my own personal ethical boundaries that says I won't eat something that was tortured before it got to my plate. The idea that I am punishing myself or being ascetic by being vegan is just plain wrong. That's not the point. The point is that I want to see all the cows, pigs, chickens, goats, and turkeys living in an environment where they can thrive, not be exploited. I want that for all of us. So I don't participate in systems that promulgate the opposite.

(12-20-2015, 11:31 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: I think the issue is that whatever choice of diet one makes, if it's done for the reason of following some external rule, then it's not motivated by understanding and an inner alignment to that choice.

(12-20-2015, 11:31 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: How often is the argument pushed that veganism/vegetarianism is the most superior/healthy diet?  That's just not true.  One can eat poorly as a vegan/vegetarian, just as one can eat poorly as an omnivore.  It's about balance, and what your particular body needs at that particular life junction.  Diets change as needs change.

(12-22-2015, 02:45 PM)airwaves Wrote: There are compassionate ways to go about a diet with meats given time and resources, blessing and thanking the being aside, ulnfortunestely it's not possible for the average citizen of the world.

(12-22-2015, 06:56 PM)airwaves Wrote: Back to the whole agreeing to disagree thing. Dictating to me that I'm wrong to be an omnivore is in itself wrong.

(12-19-2015, 03:59 AM)Aion Wrote:

(12-18-2015, 02:37 PM)Nicholas Wrote:

(12-17-2015, 06:38 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: Such deep level of sarcasm. Much suffering I sense here excluding the suffering of animals.

You have also sensed it. The heart of the matter for me is why are soo many individuals not ready to become vegan? I think the healing of an incarnation is too easily brushed aside, and too easily not brought into consideration during the discussion of such personal matters, such as this one. 

Personally I think this way of thinking is... I'm not quite sure, evangelistic?

If I was to alter your sentence here slightly - "The heart of the matter for me is why are soo many individuals not ready to become [Christian/Buddhist/Muslim/etc]?"

Quote:43.20 Questioner: I’m guessing that it is not necessary to ingest food in fifth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. However, the vehicle needs food which may be prepared by thought.
43.21 Questioner: What type of food would this be?
Ra: I am Ra. You would call this type of food nectar, or ambrosia, or a light broth of golden white hue.

(12-22-2015, 08:57 PM)Parsons Wrote: Deleted - I refuse to get sucked into this over-baked debate again.

(12-22-2015, 09:27 PM)Nicholas Wrote: So is it logical to assume that in 5th density, all entities are preparing food, not using their 5th density limbs (whatever that may look like), but using thought? Yes. That is if we hold any stock in the info that Ra offers us.

And beyond the 5th density, Ra describe food in the 6th aspect of the grand illusion at 43.24. "the nature of this food is that of light and is impossible to describe to you in any meaningful way as regards the thrust of your query."

So it is my logical assumption that in-between where we are now and the 6th density run of things (according to Ra that is), veganism as a practise, rather than an identity  would be collectively explored. 

(12-22-2015, 09:27 PM)Nicholas Wrote: The most important distinction for me lies between the concepts of "foodstuff" (which is objective), and "harvest" (which is subjective).

So to rephrase my initial question (thanks isis btw for grasping it), it would go like this. "In order to get to the heart of the matter I think we need to explore why eating meat/dairy is preferable". For me personally, it turns out that vB12 is prevalent in eggs! That btw is the original intent behind this very thread. Here I am wondering why I crave a 5 egg omelette, why I argue with my fiancee (who makes my sandwiches for work) for only boiling 3 eggs instead of 4! And why I am not ready to let go of that particular source of sustenance.

(12-22-2015, 09:27 PM)Nicholas Wrote: Which is why we are all at risk if we attempt to quantify (which I admit to doing at times) the harvestability of an other by way of their personal  food choices. How are we to know when an other person is acting from their red ray when eating? 

(12-22-2015, 09:36 PM)airwaves Wrote: That type of thought is in and of itself depolarizing no matter how lofty the morals are.

(12-22-2015, 06:19 PM)Monica Wrote: Just stop eating animals and we'll be cool.  

Because, see, killing a sentient being is the most divisive of all. We can't pretend to be 'One' here on an internet forum, while still engaging in the ultimate separation: the taking of another being's life.

     to all!

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